Jason Tate
11/14/06, 10:43 PM
I recently had the chance to pick the brain of Nick Bogardus from New Noise Management (http://www.newnoisemanagement.com.). I just want to thank Nick for taking the time to answer some questions for us, hopefully you find his answers as enlightening as I did. - Jason
First, can you tell us some background about how you got into management? What was your first band (and all your current bands), and how you got your foot in the door?
Right out of high school I was working at a record store (Greene Records in Tustin, CA), writing for Transworld Skateboarding and Meanstreet, and interning at a PR firm in LA four days a week (the drive from OC was about 1.5 hours each way). The interning led me to an assistant position at Time Bomb/Rebel Waltz in Laguna Beach, CA.
I can’t think of a better place to have gotten my first ‘break’ – if you call being an assistant a ‘break’. The unique thing about Time Bomb/Rebel Waltz was that the company was divided into two entities: one an indie label with bands like Sunny Day Real Estate, No Knife, and the Reverend Horton Heat, and the other a management company with artists like No Doubt, the Offspring, and Social Distortion. That arrangement and the small size of the office meant that I was able to simultaneously and intimately see how an indie label operates as well as how a management company with huge clients operates. In one day I could be working on a press mailing for Sunny Day Real Estate and pulling radio reports for No Doubt. The size of the company and the incredible people in it also made it possible for me to ask questions of the people who worked in retail, product management, A&R, etc. My year and a half there was one of the best experiences of my life.
I briefly mentioned the amazing people I worked with there, but it is awesome to see where all of the people have continued in the industry. Jim Guerinot still runs Rebel Waltz and has since added Nine Inch Nails to his roster. He’s hands-down one of the smartest people in the industry and a brilliant, patient, understanding mentor, even for a former assistant like me.
Pete Giberga is one of the best human beings I’ve ever met and one of the only A&R guys I’ve met who truly understands artists. He does A&R for Epic now. Kenny O’Leary was an assistant at Rebel Waltz and is one of the smartest go-to guys in the business. If you’re an artist he’s a must-have presence on your management team. I’m just lucky and blessed he works with me at New Noise. Scott Boyd is now one of the of higher ups at AOL Music and has that great combination of a dry sense of humor and impeccable musical taste. Chris Fenn is one of those amazing swiss army knife-type people (trustworthy, and knowledgeable about almost everything) and he manages Matt Costa, a singer-songwriter you should all check out. I think Shane Trulin’s picture would inhabit the entries of both “loyal” and “biggest smart ass ever” in the dictionary and he helps manage Hot Hot Heat for Rebel Waltz. Lisa Kidd has that deadly combination of ridiculously smart and sexy (like Entourage meets Sex & the City) and helps manage No Doubt at Rebel Waltz. Lynn McDonnell went on to do radio promotion for Reprise and has been a huge part of My Chemical Romance’s success. Peter Harper is one of the most genuine people I’ve ever met and he’s now one of the higher ups at Clear Channel.
It’s humbling that all of those people were in one building at one time and it’s a great lesson in how your relationships really do matter in this business. In a business that can be dark and cutthroat, where the turnover rate is high and people change jobs frequently, its important to really invest in the ‘good ones’ when you come across them.
Anyway, towards the end of my time there I came across Thrice through mutual friends and loved them so much I decided to take the risk and go out on my own. From there I brought in Rufio, Denali, the Colour, Vedera, and most recently Cold War Kids and Dustin Kensrue.
What do you see as a manager's "role" in today's industry?
Let me begin by stating what I think a manager should be. A manager should be the “fifth member” – a trusted voice that can be objective, critical, and comforting as he needs to be, and trusted hands that can cultivate opportunities for the band. He should be humble but confident and aggressive but not obnoxious or brutal. You’re part guide, part counselor, part hitman, part best friend, and part businessman. At every turn responsible for furthering the band’s career and, hopefully, them as people. I heard my friend Tom Gates, who manages Brand New, describe the role of a manager in a funny way: “a punching bag for rock stars”. This is true too, and in addition to being smart and quick-witted, you better be undyingly selfless and have thick skin.
The role of a mid-size manager has changed a lot in the past couple years. The industry has been in a nosedive and while the business and staffs shrink, it has understandably blurred and shifted the focus at a lot at labels. I think that requires managers to start acting more like labels themselves so that they can pick up the slack from labels focusing more on cutting costs and ‘big picture’ things rather than a lot of the little things that go into really building an artist.
You've worked with bands on both indie-labels and major labels, what's been your experience with both, and which do you prefer?
Ha, no comment. I can say that I’ve had the pleasure of meeting and working with great people on both levels.
On Thrice's latest album - they took a big leap - how was this handled by the label, and have you seen any backlash from it not being a huge commercial success?
I’ll answer your last question first: As to your question about a ‘backlash’ at the label, I think the freedom they’re giving Thrice with this ‘elemental album’ is testament to their faith and trust in the band. They’re letting the band handle the writing and recording completely on their own and are turning over the reins almost completely for the marketing and promotion of the album.
Now, lets be clear that selling over 200,000 records in the state that the business is in is no small feat, particularly for a band with limited radio and television exposure. For a band to be a “huge commercial success” these days you need to be a certain type of band. They aren’t an “image” band that gives the people who listen to them an image, an identity. Thrice aren’t that big “ROCK!” band leeching off the image of bands from another era, they aren’t a theatrical outlet dressing like Kubrick extras for “alienated” teenagers, and they aren’t about to mail naked pictures of themselves to the world via a sidekick. It’s simply not them.
Yes, Vheissu sold less than Artist in the Ambulance but everyone (the band, myself, and the label) knew that was a risk going into this record. The band made the record that they wanted to make and it’s a beautiful, passionate, dynamic, dense record. Like I wrote in the liner notes for Vheissu, the band had a choice of doing the record with a producer who has dozens of platinum plaques on his wall from his huge radio hits or doing the record with Steve Osborne who is known for his work with Peter Gabriel, Massive Attack, U2, and most recently KT Tunstall. They chose Steve because he fit with their vision. You might call that crazy, but if you know the band, you know they’re not a group of people motivated by money or greed or a certain definition of success. Their focus is their vision and affecting people on deeper levels. All that being said, Vheissu’s sales mean that the core fanbase is stronger than ever because the people who stuck around actually “get” Thrice. The people who may have left have plenty of other bands to style their hair and do spin kicks to.
You know, its funny because I was trying to help the guy who wrote the bio for Dustin’s solo album understand “who” Dustin is and I explained that he’s pretty much incapable of small talk – seriously. The thing is, that’s true of all four of the guys. At a party or after a show they’re generally on the edge of the room. It’s not that they are aloof or anti-social, they just don’t do well with the general surface small talk. If you want to talk about the human condition, the philosophy of Ayn Rand, why exactly the Beatles recordings were amazing, or where our society derives their identities, then they’re your guys. I think that comes out in their music. It can be hard to approach but hopefully it leaves you having explored something in yourself you hadn’t prior, and leaves you encouraged to change something in yourself and in our world. Whereas bands like U2 or Rage Against the Machine are/were about revolution and change on massive levels, I think Thrice is about a more intimate revolution.
What goals do you have for the bands you manage? Are they different for each band, or is there a unifying goal for all of your artists?
As I write this I’m in Kansas City for the wedding of Kristen and Brian from Vedera. My personal, initial goal for the bands I manage is that they grow as people, that they flourish individually and as an entity. My business goals for the bands that I work with is to further their careers as the artists they choose to be by helping them shape their vision and taking that vision as far as we can take it as a team.
Is it difficult to raise a family with this as your profession?
Absolutely. It’s hard to remain grounded and honest in this profession, much less raise a family.
When I was a 20 year old assistant at Time Bomb/Rebel Waltz, I asked my boss, Jack Isquith, why everyone in the office was over thirty but not even close to marriage, or if they were married, why they didn’t get married until they were in their 40’s. He responded with, “Because what other profession requires you to be in a bar with a band at 10 o’clock on a Tuesday night?”
When you’re in a business that is built largely on perception and hustling, it’s hard to not yield part of yourself to those traits. I’ve been blessed to have Dustin and Teppei from Thrice, both of whom have been married to their wives for four years, around me to show me what real, honest, true marriages look like in the context of this lifestyle and profession. And it was amazing last night to see Kristen and Brian start a part of their life that transcends even the music they make together.
For me though, I’m 27 and single and my ‘family’ at home is four great guys (all in a band, Aushua (myspace.com/aushuamusic), you should check out) and a fat, sarcastic beagle named Buckley.
How have "leaks" and "downloading" affected the bands you work with?
Well, the obvious is that it’s diminished the number of records the bands sell, but its increased the amount of people they can reach.
I think the question has to be though: How do leaks and downloading change our approach to marketing a band, and how do we use that to our advantage? I don’t think there is a single answer to that since each scenario is different, but managers and labels should avoid concentrating too much on the “finger in the dam” approach of trying to prevent leaking and downloading, and instead focus on how those two things are a part of the overall plan.
What advice would you have for those trying to get into the music industry?
1) To quote the movie Swimming With Sharks and my good friend Pete Giberga, “Shut up, Listen, and Learn.” To be successful you need to be an observer, a listener. My old boss Jim Guerinot, a man at the top of this business, said to me once, “When I was 20 I was learning a thousand things a day, when I was 30 I was learning a hundred, and now at 40 I’m learning ten things a day”. The point is that you will always have more to learn and that process is important. Taking that approach keeps a certain sense of humility and cultivates wisdom.
2) In that same spirit, look outside of music for ideas and guidance. I teach a course in Media Management at Biola University here in California and the text books I brought to the class are:
- The Fall of Advertising, The Rise of PR by Al Reis
- Winning With Integrity: the Art of Negotiating by Leigh Steinberg (guy they based Jerry Macguire on)
- The Harvard Business Review on Brand Management
- All You Need to Know About the Music Business by Donald Passman
3) Be persistent and sincere. They go hand in hand and will open doors for you, whereas being obnoxious and disingenuous will close them.
What advice would you have for bands looking for a manager?
If you’re looking for one, you probably don’t need one. Instead of spending your time looking for a manager because you see it as a shortcut, spend your time playing shows, writing songs, and then building value by touring and building a fanbase. DIY’ing it as long as you can will make you a better as a band and as individuals. It builds self-reliance, selflessness, and all around personal and musical maturity.
What's the worst and best thing about being a manager?
That’s a big question.
The best things are:
1. Developing relationships with band’s you deeply respect. The mutual trust in a band/manager relationship is a heavy thing. You share every success and every failure personally and professionally. The only kind of relationships I can think might serve as a metaphor would be like soldiers on combat. Every day its your group against ‘the world’. Every day is a fight to gain an inch of ground in battle that doesn’t take weeks or months, but years. There’s a certain brotherhood that forms where you know the most annoying traits of each other, but you ultimately trust the others to have your back no matter what. Being here at a Vedera wedding, being in Thrice weddings, seeing people going nuts at a Cold War Kids show or hearing one of the Colour’s songs on Indie 103.1 – they’re all part of this journey we all take together.
2. Being a manager has enabled me to be my own boss which has allowed me to travel all over the United States, Japan, and Europe for work, and opened the door for me to travel on my own aside from those business trips. I’ve been able to make friends all over the world and experience things a lot of people from other walks of life aren’t able to. I’m thankful for that.
The worst things are:
1. For the most part being a manger is a relatively thankless job. Remember that part in Saving Private Ryan where the platoon is complaining to Tom Hanks about the mission and they ask him if he has issue with it, and in response he says, “gripes go up, they don’t go down”. That’s how it is being in management a lot of the time. When things go wrong, you really hear about it. When things go right, you rarely do. It can be tough, but that’s why I said you have to have to be undyingly selfless and have thick skin. Your vision of the big picture has to be bigger than anyone else’s.
2. Going back to what I saying about the lifestyle involved in this business, when you’re your own boss – but even in this industry in particular for some reason – your work is everything. Family takes a backseat, friends take a backseat, and taking care of yourself is often last in line. That is something that is crucial to watch out for.
Are you a fan of all the bands you manage, and what's it like being on the "inside" of a band?
Of course! I’m the kind person who really gets behind something when he’s passionate about it and have a hard time motivating myself if I’m not in love with it.
Can you walk us through a regular day for you?
There isn’t a regular day, really band’s cycles and situations vary so greatly, and with several bands one could be recording, another touring, another have a record coming out, etc etc. I can tell you that I get in by 9:30 every day and leave around 6:30, and that I love going to the Japanese restaurant across the street for lunch. Other than that its phone calls, emails, and meeting with my guys.
How has the internet changed your job? How as the internet affected your bands?
Again, that’s kind of a big question.
The internet has changed my job in the same way its changed everyone else’s lives. Its made the transfer of information almost immediate and communication more multifaceted – I’m generally emailing, talking on the phone, IM’ing, and reading a news website (*cough*absolutepunkdotnet*cough*) all in the same minute.
Its affected the band’s in a positive way I think. It’s another outlet in which they can interact with fans, disseminate “who” the are, and get feedback. You don’t need to be on MTV or Rollingstone to get really noticed now – you can make a $10 video of your band dancing on treadmills and put it on YouTube.
Negatively, it’s given every small-minded toolbox with a keyboard an outlet to voice their bitter, self-hating “critiques” in public and from the safety of their room. As much as you expect and welcome criticism, it does get frustrating reading The Grand Statements of The Profoundly Retarded for the thousandth time.
Given the ability to pass on your knowledge to others interested in the music industry, what would you tell them?
I think I’d probably just summarize a lot of what I’ve already said.
How do you see the music scene changing in the next 5 to 10 years?
“The scene” is so 1998.
The only thing I can say for certain is that the powers that be will find a way to charge for downloaded music. The most interesting thing I’ve heard to date was making it a ‘utility’ charge like water, gas, or even text messaging. I have no idea how they’ll regulate it but now that movies and dvds are finally pirate-able they will find a way to charge.
Do you see the bands you work with sticking around for that long?
What’s the average lifespan for a band? 3 records? 5 records?
I plan on taking the bands I work with as far as they want to go. I’ve seen Thrice through four albums, Rufio through 3 albums, Denali through 1 before they broke up, Vedera is working on their second album, and the Cold War Kids and the Colour are on their first. We’ll go until there’s nothing left to learn.
Thanks again for doing this for us! If you have any thing else you want to add - please do!
Just to check out our bands:
Thrice – myspace.com/thrice
Dustin Kensrue – myspace.com/dustinkensrue
Vedera – myspace.com/vedera
The Colour – myspace.com/thecolour
Cold War Kids – myspace.com/coldwarkids
Oh, and if you’re into reading, check out books by these guys:
- Dave Eggers
- Chuck Klosterman
- Donald Miller
- Adam Davies
PPS, if you’re in a band and need a “Bible” for reference of “how to be a rockstar of substance” check out a kind-of-bio on Bono called “Bono: In Conversation with Michka Assays” as well as Johnny Cash’s “Cash”.
First, can you tell us some background about how you got into management? What was your first band (and all your current bands), and how you got your foot in the door?
Right out of high school I was working at a record store (Greene Records in Tustin, CA), writing for Transworld Skateboarding and Meanstreet, and interning at a PR firm in LA four days a week (the drive from OC was about 1.5 hours each way). The interning led me to an assistant position at Time Bomb/Rebel Waltz in Laguna Beach, CA.
I can’t think of a better place to have gotten my first ‘break’ – if you call being an assistant a ‘break’. The unique thing about Time Bomb/Rebel Waltz was that the company was divided into two entities: one an indie label with bands like Sunny Day Real Estate, No Knife, and the Reverend Horton Heat, and the other a management company with artists like No Doubt, the Offspring, and Social Distortion. That arrangement and the small size of the office meant that I was able to simultaneously and intimately see how an indie label operates as well as how a management company with huge clients operates. In one day I could be working on a press mailing for Sunny Day Real Estate and pulling radio reports for No Doubt. The size of the company and the incredible people in it also made it possible for me to ask questions of the people who worked in retail, product management, A&R, etc. My year and a half there was one of the best experiences of my life.
I briefly mentioned the amazing people I worked with there, but it is awesome to see where all of the people have continued in the industry. Jim Guerinot still runs Rebel Waltz and has since added Nine Inch Nails to his roster. He’s hands-down one of the smartest people in the industry and a brilliant, patient, understanding mentor, even for a former assistant like me.
Pete Giberga is one of the best human beings I’ve ever met and one of the only A&R guys I’ve met who truly understands artists. He does A&R for Epic now. Kenny O’Leary was an assistant at Rebel Waltz and is one of the smartest go-to guys in the business. If you’re an artist he’s a must-have presence on your management team. I’m just lucky and blessed he works with me at New Noise. Scott Boyd is now one of the of higher ups at AOL Music and has that great combination of a dry sense of humor and impeccable musical taste. Chris Fenn is one of those amazing swiss army knife-type people (trustworthy, and knowledgeable about almost everything) and he manages Matt Costa, a singer-songwriter you should all check out. I think Shane Trulin’s picture would inhabit the entries of both “loyal” and “biggest smart ass ever” in the dictionary and he helps manage Hot Hot Heat for Rebel Waltz. Lisa Kidd has that deadly combination of ridiculously smart and sexy (like Entourage meets Sex & the City) and helps manage No Doubt at Rebel Waltz. Lynn McDonnell went on to do radio promotion for Reprise and has been a huge part of My Chemical Romance’s success. Peter Harper is one of the most genuine people I’ve ever met and he’s now one of the higher ups at Clear Channel.
It’s humbling that all of those people were in one building at one time and it’s a great lesson in how your relationships really do matter in this business. In a business that can be dark and cutthroat, where the turnover rate is high and people change jobs frequently, its important to really invest in the ‘good ones’ when you come across them.
Anyway, towards the end of my time there I came across Thrice through mutual friends and loved them so much I decided to take the risk and go out on my own. From there I brought in Rufio, Denali, the Colour, Vedera, and most recently Cold War Kids and Dustin Kensrue.
What do you see as a manager's "role" in today's industry?
Let me begin by stating what I think a manager should be. A manager should be the “fifth member” – a trusted voice that can be objective, critical, and comforting as he needs to be, and trusted hands that can cultivate opportunities for the band. He should be humble but confident and aggressive but not obnoxious or brutal. You’re part guide, part counselor, part hitman, part best friend, and part businessman. At every turn responsible for furthering the band’s career and, hopefully, them as people. I heard my friend Tom Gates, who manages Brand New, describe the role of a manager in a funny way: “a punching bag for rock stars”. This is true too, and in addition to being smart and quick-witted, you better be undyingly selfless and have thick skin.
The role of a mid-size manager has changed a lot in the past couple years. The industry has been in a nosedive and while the business and staffs shrink, it has understandably blurred and shifted the focus at a lot at labels. I think that requires managers to start acting more like labels themselves so that they can pick up the slack from labels focusing more on cutting costs and ‘big picture’ things rather than a lot of the little things that go into really building an artist.
You've worked with bands on both indie-labels and major labels, what's been your experience with both, and which do you prefer?
Ha, no comment. I can say that I’ve had the pleasure of meeting and working with great people on both levels.
On Thrice's latest album - they took a big leap - how was this handled by the label, and have you seen any backlash from it not being a huge commercial success?
I’ll answer your last question first: As to your question about a ‘backlash’ at the label, I think the freedom they’re giving Thrice with this ‘elemental album’ is testament to their faith and trust in the band. They’re letting the band handle the writing and recording completely on their own and are turning over the reins almost completely for the marketing and promotion of the album.
Now, lets be clear that selling over 200,000 records in the state that the business is in is no small feat, particularly for a band with limited radio and television exposure. For a band to be a “huge commercial success” these days you need to be a certain type of band. They aren’t an “image” band that gives the people who listen to them an image, an identity. Thrice aren’t that big “ROCK!” band leeching off the image of bands from another era, they aren’t a theatrical outlet dressing like Kubrick extras for “alienated” teenagers, and they aren’t about to mail naked pictures of themselves to the world via a sidekick. It’s simply not them.
Yes, Vheissu sold less than Artist in the Ambulance but everyone (the band, myself, and the label) knew that was a risk going into this record. The band made the record that they wanted to make and it’s a beautiful, passionate, dynamic, dense record. Like I wrote in the liner notes for Vheissu, the band had a choice of doing the record with a producer who has dozens of platinum plaques on his wall from his huge radio hits or doing the record with Steve Osborne who is known for his work with Peter Gabriel, Massive Attack, U2, and most recently KT Tunstall. They chose Steve because he fit with their vision. You might call that crazy, but if you know the band, you know they’re not a group of people motivated by money or greed or a certain definition of success. Their focus is their vision and affecting people on deeper levels. All that being said, Vheissu’s sales mean that the core fanbase is stronger than ever because the people who stuck around actually “get” Thrice. The people who may have left have plenty of other bands to style their hair and do spin kicks to.
You know, its funny because I was trying to help the guy who wrote the bio for Dustin’s solo album understand “who” Dustin is and I explained that he’s pretty much incapable of small talk – seriously. The thing is, that’s true of all four of the guys. At a party or after a show they’re generally on the edge of the room. It’s not that they are aloof or anti-social, they just don’t do well with the general surface small talk. If you want to talk about the human condition, the philosophy of Ayn Rand, why exactly the Beatles recordings were amazing, or where our society derives their identities, then they’re your guys. I think that comes out in their music. It can be hard to approach but hopefully it leaves you having explored something in yourself you hadn’t prior, and leaves you encouraged to change something in yourself and in our world. Whereas bands like U2 or Rage Against the Machine are/were about revolution and change on massive levels, I think Thrice is about a more intimate revolution.
What goals do you have for the bands you manage? Are they different for each band, or is there a unifying goal for all of your artists?
As I write this I’m in Kansas City for the wedding of Kristen and Brian from Vedera. My personal, initial goal for the bands I manage is that they grow as people, that they flourish individually and as an entity. My business goals for the bands that I work with is to further their careers as the artists they choose to be by helping them shape their vision and taking that vision as far as we can take it as a team.
Is it difficult to raise a family with this as your profession?
Absolutely. It’s hard to remain grounded and honest in this profession, much less raise a family.
When I was a 20 year old assistant at Time Bomb/Rebel Waltz, I asked my boss, Jack Isquith, why everyone in the office was over thirty but not even close to marriage, or if they were married, why they didn’t get married until they were in their 40’s. He responded with, “Because what other profession requires you to be in a bar with a band at 10 o’clock on a Tuesday night?”
When you’re in a business that is built largely on perception and hustling, it’s hard to not yield part of yourself to those traits. I’ve been blessed to have Dustin and Teppei from Thrice, both of whom have been married to their wives for four years, around me to show me what real, honest, true marriages look like in the context of this lifestyle and profession. And it was amazing last night to see Kristen and Brian start a part of their life that transcends even the music they make together.
For me though, I’m 27 and single and my ‘family’ at home is four great guys (all in a band, Aushua (myspace.com/aushuamusic), you should check out) and a fat, sarcastic beagle named Buckley.
How have "leaks" and "downloading" affected the bands you work with?
Well, the obvious is that it’s diminished the number of records the bands sell, but its increased the amount of people they can reach.
I think the question has to be though: How do leaks and downloading change our approach to marketing a band, and how do we use that to our advantage? I don’t think there is a single answer to that since each scenario is different, but managers and labels should avoid concentrating too much on the “finger in the dam” approach of trying to prevent leaking and downloading, and instead focus on how those two things are a part of the overall plan.
What advice would you have for those trying to get into the music industry?
1) To quote the movie Swimming With Sharks and my good friend Pete Giberga, “Shut up, Listen, and Learn.” To be successful you need to be an observer, a listener. My old boss Jim Guerinot, a man at the top of this business, said to me once, “When I was 20 I was learning a thousand things a day, when I was 30 I was learning a hundred, and now at 40 I’m learning ten things a day”. The point is that you will always have more to learn and that process is important. Taking that approach keeps a certain sense of humility and cultivates wisdom.
2) In that same spirit, look outside of music for ideas and guidance. I teach a course in Media Management at Biola University here in California and the text books I brought to the class are:
- The Fall of Advertising, The Rise of PR by Al Reis
- Winning With Integrity: the Art of Negotiating by Leigh Steinberg (guy they based Jerry Macguire on)
- The Harvard Business Review on Brand Management
- All You Need to Know About the Music Business by Donald Passman
3) Be persistent and sincere. They go hand in hand and will open doors for you, whereas being obnoxious and disingenuous will close them.
What advice would you have for bands looking for a manager?
If you’re looking for one, you probably don’t need one. Instead of spending your time looking for a manager because you see it as a shortcut, spend your time playing shows, writing songs, and then building value by touring and building a fanbase. DIY’ing it as long as you can will make you a better as a band and as individuals. It builds self-reliance, selflessness, and all around personal and musical maturity.
What's the worst and best thing about being a manager?
That’s a big question.
The best things are:
1. Developing relationships with band’s you deeply respect. The mutual trust in a band/manager relationship is a heavy thing. You share every success and every failure personally and professionally. The only kind of relationships I can think might serve as a metaphor would be like soldiers on combat. Every day its your group against ‘the world’. Every day is a fight to gain an inch of ground in battle that doesn’t take weeks or months, but years. There’s a certain brotherhood that forms where you know the most annoying traits of each other, but you ultimately trust the others to have your back no matter what. Being here at a Vedera wedding, being in Thrice weddings, seeing people going nuts at a Cold War Kids show or hearing one of the Colour’s songs on Indie 103.1 – they’re all part of this journey we all take together.
2. Being a manager has enabled me to be my own boss which has allowed me to travel all over the United States, Japan, and Europe for work, and opened the door for me to travel on my own aside from those business trips. I’ve been able to make friends all over the world and experience things a lot of people from other walks of life aren’t able to. I’m thankful for that.
The worst things are:
1. For the most part being a manger is a relatively thankless job. Remember that part in Saving Private Ryan where the platoon is complaining to Tom Hanks about the mission and they ask him if he has issue with it, and in response he says, “gripes go up, they don’t go down”. That’s how it is being in management a lot of the time. When things go wrong, you really hear about it. When things go right, you rarely do. It can be tough, but that’s why I said you have to have to be undyingly selfless and have thick skin. Your vision of the big picture has to be bigger than anyone else’s.
2. Going back to what I saying about the lifestyle involved in this business, when you’re your own boss – but even in this industry in particular for some reason – your work is everything. Family takes a backseat, friends take a backseat, and taking care of yourself is often last in line. That is something that is crucial to watch out for.
Are you a fan of all the bands you manage, and what's it like being on the "inside" of a band?
Of course! I’m the kind person who really gets behind something when he’s passionate about it and have a hard time motivating myself if I’m not in love with it.
Can you walk us through a regular day for you?
There isn’t a regular day, really band’s cycles and situations vary so greatly, and with several bands one could be recording, another touring, another have a record coming out, etc etc. I can tell you that I get in by 9:30 every day and leave around 6:30, and that I love going to the Japanese restaurant across the street for lunch. Other than that its phone calls, emails, and meeting with my guys.
How has the internet changed your job? How as the internet affected your bands?
Again, that’s kind of a big question.
The internet has changed my job in the same way its changed everyone else’s lives. Its made the transfer of information almost immediate and communication more multifaceted – I’m generally emailing, talking on the phone, IM’ing, and reading a news website (*cough*absolutepunkdotnet*cough*) all in the same minute.
Its affected the band’s in a positive way I think. It’s another outlet in which they can interact with fans, disseminate “who” the are, and get feedback. You don’t need to be on MTV or Rollingstone to get really noticed now – you can make a $10 video of your band dancing on treadmills and put it on YouTube.
Negatively, it’s given every small-minded toolbox with a keyboard an outlet to voice their bitter, self-hating “critiques” in public and from the safety of their room. As much as you expect and welcome criticism, it does get frustrating reading The Grand Statements of The Profoundly Retarded for the thousandth time.
Given the ability to pass on your knowledge to others interested in the music industry, what would you tell them?
I think I’d probably just summarize a lot of what I’ve already said.
How do you see the music scene changing in the next 5 to 10 years?
“The scene” is so 1998.
The only thing I can say for certain is that the powers that be will find a way to charge for downloaded music. The most interesting thing I’ve heard to date was making it a ‘utility’ charge like water, gas, or even text messaging. I have no idea how they’ll regulate it but now that movies and dvds are finally pirate-able they will find a way to charge.
Do you see the bands you work with sticking around for that long?
What’s the average lifespan for a band? 3 records? 5 records?
I plan on taking the bands I work with as far as they want to go. I’ve seen Thrice through four albums, Rufio through 3 albums, Denali through 1 before they broke up, Vedera is working on their second album, and the Cold War Kids and the Colour are on their first. We’ll go until there’s nothing left to learn.
Thanks again for doing this for us! If you have any thing else you want to add - please do!
Just to check out our bands:
Thrice – myspace.com/thrice
Dustin Kensrue – myspace.com/dustinkensrue
Vedera – myspace.com/vedera
The Colour – myspace.com/thecolour
Cold War Kids – myspace.com/coldwarkids
Oh, and if you’re into reading, check out books by these guys:
- Dave Eggers
- Chuck Klosterman
- Donald Miller
- Adam Davies
PPS, if you’re in a band and need a “Bible” for reference of “how to be a rockstar of substance” check out a kind-of-bio on Bono called “Bono: In Conversation with Michka Assays” as well as Johnny Cash’s “Cash”.