Glenn Beck's Restoring Honor Rally

[StormSnares]

Glenn Beck is the man today. Let the flames begin.

[Scrandon]

Troll harder kid.

[StormSnares]

just funny how the media is tearing him apart for this, when the whole speech is about bringing the country back to god. not just in churches. but in synogauges and mosques too...sounds like a pretty good message to me.

[JordanBuell]

gtfo

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

just funny how the media is tearing him apart for this, when the whole speech is about bringing the country back to god. not just in churches. but in synogauges and mosques too...sounds like a pretty good message to me.

It'll be a good message as long as he doesn't profit in any way from this.

EDIT: I forgot that money raised from the event does go towards military scholarships.

[TJ Wells]

Bringing a country back to some mystical nonentity living up in the sky is about the worst thing I can think of. Religion is at the root at ALL of the problems in this country. Fact. Deny it if you want to, but it's the truth.

[J.C.]

Did Glenn just insinuate God donated $600,000 to a fundraiser he was doing?

[Scrandon]

It'll be a good message as long as he doesn't profit in any way from this.

Nope, still horrible propaganda.

[shit stroll]

this is so corny.

[Smash Adams]

I'm just curious does he not believe in/know about separation of church and state

[owiseone35]

Glenn Back is an idiot.

[shit stroll]

here comes the tears!

[J.C.]

We love you, Jesus!

[StormSnares]

I'm just curious does he not believe in/know about separation of church and state

I'm curious if you believe in / know the principles this country was founded on. Read through the constitution and declaration of independence and look for some God references, you'll be surprised.

There is a need for separation between church and state, but that doesn't mean it should be a crime or looked down upon to be a leader who believes.


PS. Do conservatives even exist in this forum?

[J.C.]

PS. Do conservatives even exist in this forum?

Ones that can be taken seriously? Only but a modest few I'm afraid, and they're too intelligent to align themselves with the type that would listen to Glenn Beck.

[TJ Wells]

I'm curious if you believe in / know the principles this country was founded on. Read through the constitution and declaration of independence and look for some God references, you'll be surprised.

There is a need for separation between church and state, but that doesn't mean it should be a crime or looked down upon to be a leader who believes.


PS. Do conservatives even exist in this forum?
Not really. At least not social conservatives. People here have common sense.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

We love you, Jesus!

Glenn Beck just converted everyone to Mormonism.

[StormSnares]

Not really. At least not social conservatives. People here have common sense.

Socially, i'm with you dude. I just think overall, the government should be involved in the bare minimum necessary - socially, and fiscally. Limited government will always lead to more freedoms than a huge amount of control. People should be able to do what they want, and should have control of their own money.

That being said, as a christian, I respect people who have the balls to even claim a belief in God in today's secular world - seems like the media's quick to bash and politically it's just too touchy of a subject. Which i think is sad.

[TJ Wells]

I have no respect for religious people, whatsoever. People tell me it makes you "brave" to be religious in our current society, but the fact is, it doesn't make you brave, it makes you weak. You're so afraid to consider the idea that when you're dead, you're DEAD. It scares me too, but at least I've been able to accept it.

[Debut_Fin]

just funny how the media is tearing him apart for this, when the whole speech is about bringing the country back to god. not just in churches. but in synogauges and mosques too...sounds like a pretty good message to me.

separation of church and state. the country and the government should be for everyone. god and religion is a personal issue. the two should not overlap EVER. i don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding that

[TheFaceOfZach]

Glenn Beck is a nut. My grandpa is a republican and thinks that as well. Clearly this guy forgets that this country was founded secularly.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm

Or maybe he just doesn't know.

Off-topic: I don't think I've ever seen a socially-conservative person on these boards. Maybe fiscally conservative (like I am). But this place is generally socially-liberal.

[Scrandon]

I'm curious if you believe in / know the principles this country was founded on. Read through the constitution and declaration of independence and look for some God references, you'll be surprised.

There is a need for separation between church and state, but that doesn't mean it should be a crime or looked down upon to be a leader who believes.


PS. Do conservatives even exist in this forum?

http://images.memegenerator.net/Advice-Dog/ImageMacro/2326129/God-mentioned-in-Constitution-Obviously-intended-theocracy.jpg

[caveBEAR]

I'm curious if you believe in / know the principles this country was founded on. Read through the constitution and declaration of independence and look for some God references, you'll be surprised.

There is a need for separation between church and state, but that doesn't mean it should be a crime or looked down upon to be a leader who believes.

Obligatory 'the founding fathers counted black people as 3/5th a human, not everything they said was infallible, they are not deities, etc.,' post.

PS. Do conservatives even exist in this forum?

Intelligent ones? A few. I'd be willing to guess they're too busy not being a moron to suck Beck's dick.

[decel241]

separation of church and state. the country and the government should be for everyone. god and religion is a personal issue. the two should not overlap EVER. i don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding that

nailed it

[Scrandon]

Socially, i'm with you dude. I just think overall, the government should be involved in the bare minimum necessary - socially, and fiscally. Limited government will always lead to more freedoms than a huge amount of control. People should be able to do what they want, and should have control of their own money.

That being said, as a christian, I respect people who have the balls to even claim a belief in God in today's secular world - seems like the media's quick to bash and politically it's just too touchy of a subject. Which i think is sad.
You're socially liberal? So you think God needs to have a more defined role in economics and foreign policy? What a woefully misguided sentiment.

[Debut_Fin]

also, the only good thing to ever have stemmed from the fact that glenn beck exists is this video from the onion

http://www.theonion.com/video/victim-in-fatal-car-accident-tragically-not-glenn,14380/

[caveBEAR]

Limited government will always lead to more freedoms than a huge amount of control.

Exactly! I mean, if it weren't for government and judicial interference, the people would let gay marriage happen!


Oh, wait...

[caveBEAR]

That being said, as a christian, I respect people who have the balls to even claim a belief in God in today's secular world - seems like the media's quick to bash and politically it's just too touchy of a subject. Which i think is sad.

:lolatpost:

Holy shit, do you even live in America in 2010? Yeah man, Christians have got it real rough.
:rolleyes:

[mymusicismylife]

Glenn Beck is the antichrist.

[Tyler Vagyler]

The speech was pointless.

Who does he think he is?

[StormSnares]

I have no respect for religious people, whatsoever. People tell me it makes you "brave" to be religious in our current society, but the fact is, it doesn't make you brave, it makes you weak. You're so afraid to consider the idea that when you're dead, you're DEAD. It scares me too, but at least I've been able to accept it.

Why do you have to be so aggressive about this? I"m not scared of death or anything...i just have a different interpretation of where we came from and what this life is really about. I truly believe you're entitled to your opinion too tho - and i would definitely not attack you for it like you have me. Sounds like someone else here is the truly scared one.

You're socially liberal? So you think God needs to have a more defined role in economics and foreign policy? What a woefully misguided sentiment.

Where did i say that? I just don't think it's a bad thing for a politician to have god as a priority in their life - in general, the three major religions agree on basic moral principles. Why is it a bad thing to have a godly man as a leader?

[decel241]

The speech was pointless.

Who does he think he is?

MLK Jr.

[Debut_Fin]

Socially, i'm with you dude. I just think overall, the government should be involved in the bare minimum necessary - socially, and fiscally. Limited government will always lead to more freedoms than a huge amount of control. People should be able to do what they want, and should have control of their own money.

That being said, as a christian, I respect people who have the balls to even claim a belief in God in today's secular world - seems like the media's quick to bash and politically it's just too touchy of a subject. Which i think is sad.

http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/christian.gif

[StormSnares]

Exactly! I mean, if it weren't for government and judicial interference, the people would let gay marriage happen!


Oh, wait...

dude, if the government were more limited and there wasn't levels and levels of bureaucratic bullshit, the people would have more power and their decisions would actually be heard. We no longer have a government by the people for the people.

[caveBEAR]

dude, if the government were more limited and there wasn't levels and levels of bureaucratic bullshit, the people would have more power and their decisions would actually be heard. We no longer have a government by the people for the people.

Yes, but the peoples decision in this matter tramples equality, freedom and liberty. It's easy to crow about 'the evils of government' when you don't like the positive things the government (and more so, the judicial system) can bring about, i.e., gay marriage (and the like).

[ned.89]

I have no respect for religious people, whatsoever. People tell me it makes you "brave" to be religious in our current society, but the fact is, it doesn't make you brave, it makes you weak. You're so afraid to consider the idea that when you're dead, you're DEAD. It scares me too, but at least I've been able to accept it.


holy generalization, batman. I'm a christian and i'm also pro-choice and pro-gay rights. just because the loudest sector of christians are braindead doesn't meant that you should discount everything that the religious says. btw.... i'm also not convinced that there is an afterlife. just because someone's religious doesn't mean that they fit into the box of the religious right.

[Scrandon]

Where did i say that? I just don't think it's a bad thing for a politician to have god as a priority in their life - in general, the three major religions agree on basic moral principles. Why is it a bad thing to have a godly man as a leader?
Do you realize that we have never elected a president who wasn't Christian? Not a coincidence.
What's the one thing almost all members of Congress have in common? They are religious. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_111th_United_States_ Congress)
http://i37.tinypic.com/jqgi03.png

However, to humor you, tell me specifically how having God in someone's life is going to help them better serve your needs. And remember you're "socially liberal" so none of that 'respecting the institution of marriage' crap.

[Scrandon]

I guess Glenn Beck was counting on you not being able to research the fact that less than one percent of Congress is non-religious.

[caveBEAR]

I guess Glenn Beck was counting on you not being able to research the fact that less than one percent of Congress is non-religious.

Research is haaaaaaarrrd.

[J.C.]

dude, if the government were more limited and there wasn't levels and levels of bureaucratic bullshit, the people would have more power and their decisions would actually be heard. We no longer have a government by the people for the people.

The overarching number of rights that have been suppressed by the government in this country's history have been done so because they were rooted in public support, not the other way around. If 90% of the public favored gay marriage, you wouldn't have governmental opposition to it(as that would be politically retarded).

[reckoner]

Is the speech over?

[Scrandon]

Research is haaaaaaarrrd.

I know right. As I was typing the phrase 'Christians in Congress' into Google, all I could think about was how I would rather be sitting on the couch and having someone feed me the answers to all my problems.

[StormSnares]

Do you realize that we have never elected a president who wasn't Christian? Not a coincidence.
What's the one thing all members of Congress have in common? They are religious. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_111th_United_States_ Congress)
http://i37.tinypic.com/jqgi03.png

However, to humor you, tell me specifically how having God in someone's life is going to help them better serve your needs. And remember you're "socially liberal" so none of that 'respecting the institution of marriage' crap.

I don't know too much about your religious background, but just to give you a brief glimpse of where i'm coming from.

How i came to god was essentially looking at the world around me, the earth, the universe, and wondering where it all came from. After trying to think bigger, and bigger, and bigger...i eventually came to the conclusion that "well, that matter had to have come from somewhere, even if the big bang is true"...everything had to start from something before it - right? This vast world / reality that we live in cannot simply be a coincidence - SOMETHING, a personal god that i tend to believe in, or even just some type of greater power is behind all of this...sorry, i'm rambling.

but my point is, we came from somewhere and i am humble enough to say that as big as the universe is, I don't have all the answers...it's way bigger than i can imagine.

Once i understood this, you can get wrapped up in different religious theologies or whatever, but i've realized that my only purpose on this planet is to A) take attention away from myself and realize that i am not the center of the universe. B) give credit to the thought that something else is behind all this and i don't have all the answers and C) try to promote as much good in the world and help as many people in any way i can while i'm here.

Essentially - put everyone else above yourself.

If you're leading the country this way, and genuinely motivated to help every sect of people, instead of being motivated by money and lobbyists, i believe those are some good qualities of a leader and not detrimental to the country.

[Scrandon]

I don't know too much about your religious background, but just to give you a brief glimpse of where i'm coming from.

How i came to god was essentially looking at the world around me, the earth, the universe, and wondering where it all came from. After trying to think bigger, and bigger, and bigger...i eventually came to the conclusion that "well, that matter had to have come from somewhere, even if the big bang is true"...everything had to start from something before it - right? This vast world / reality that we live in cannot simply be a coincidence - SOMETHING, a personal god that i tend to believe in, or even just some type of greater power is behind all of this...sorry, i'm rambling.

but my point is, we came from somewhere and i am humble enough to say that as big as the universe is, I don't have all the answers...it's way bigger than i can imagine.

Once i understood this, you can get wrapped up in different religious theologies or whatever, but i've realized that my only purpose on this planet is to A) take attention away from myself and realize that i am not the center of the universe. B) give credit to the thought that something else is behind all this and i don't have all the answers and C) try to promote as much good in the world and help as many people in any way i can while i'm here.

Essentially - put everyone else above yourself.

If you're leading the country this way, and genuinely motivated to help every sect of people, instead of being motivated by money and lobbyists, i believe those are some good qualities of a leader and not detrimental to the country.

I can agree with you that money and lobbyists are a problem. However, I don't draw the conclusion "OMG we need more God!!"
As for the bolded, you do realize that a majority of Mormons and Evangelicals are the biggest obstacle in your way.

Not to mention you didn't respond to the fact that you think we need more God when more than 99% of Congress is faithful.

[Theseventhson]

OP got burnt.

[J.C.]

but my point is, we came from somewhere and i am humble enough to say that as big as the universe is, I don't have all the answers...it's way bigger than i can imagine.

That is a fantastic argument.....commonly made by atheists and agnostics against prevailing religious philosophies.

[StormSnares]

I can agree with you that money and lobbyists are a problem. However, I don't draw the conclusion "OMG we need more God!!"
As for the bolded, you do realize that a majority of Mormons and Evangelicals are the biggest obstacle in your way.

first, thanks for actually being respectful as i shared all that with you - it would have been easy through the internet to be a total anonymous jackass about something personal and serious, and i almost half-expected it coming from this forum. My bad.

Yes, i do realize your point. But for me, nothing is black and white anymore. People of all races, religions, and parties are in the way. In my opinion, none of the issues i'm concerned about really involved republicans vs. democrats...i really think the whole system is broken and both parties / pretty much everyone is completely out of control.

[Scrandon]

first, thanks for actually being respectful as i shared all that with you - it would have been easy through the internet to be a total anonymous jackass about something personal and serious, and i almost half-expected it coming from this forum. My bad.

Yes, i do realize your point. But for me, nothing is black and white anymore. People of all races, religions, and parties are in the way. In my opinion, none of the issues i'm concerned about really involved republicans vs. democrats...i really think the whole system is broken and both parties / pretty much everyone is completely out of control.

If that's true, then why the heck do you support Glenn Beck? All he does is demonize one side and glorify the other, all while drawing erroneous conclusions that the bailout is the first step in the 'Road to Serfdom'.

[StormSnares]

That is a fantastic argument.....commonly made by atheists and agnostics against prevailing religious philosophies.

well, i guess that's just gonna come down to how you interpret it...All i know is that one day i was born, and i don't remember the first few days, months, or years of my life...but one day, i started to essentially "wake up" to consciousness and process my family, the world around me, etc...and it's real - I actually have a mind. "ME" inside my physical body, actually has feelings and emotions and thought - why?

When i look at the universe, and space, and how big it all actually is. You have to choose to believe that space is the end-all-be-all, or there's something bigger beyond that...I tend to believe there's something bigger.

[StormSnares]

If that's true, then why the heck do you support Glenn Beck? All he does is demonize one side and glorify the other, all while drawing erroneous conclusions that the bailout is the first step in the 'Road to Serfdom'.

Fiscally dude? Beck is on point. He was calling the same bullshit on George Bush 4 years ago too...if you actually watch his show, yes it's focused on obama and the dems right nwo b/c they're in power, but he generally stresses that it's all out of control and both sides are spending like wildmen.

[troubledbyinsects]

I think Glenn Beck is the worst person ever. Top 5 at least.

[owiseone35]

Fiscally dude? Beck is on point. He was calling the same bullshit on George Bush 4 years ago too...if you actually watch his show, yes it's focused on obama and the dems right nwo b/c they're in power, but he generally stresses that it's all out of control and both sides are spending like wildmen.

I just wanna know his thought process since he freaking put on the flyers a picture of obama with a hitler mustache. When Bush ran this country in the ground you didn't see any of the democrats holidng these stupid restoring honor rally things. He doesn't like democrats i get it but he is giving a bad name for Christians and most Republicans.

[Scrandon]

Fiscally dude? Beck is on point. He was calling the same bullshit on George Bush 4 years ago too...if you actually watch his show, yes it's focused on obama and the dems right nwo b/c they're in power, but he generally stresses that it's all out of control and both sides are spending like wildmen.
I never did watch Beck's show during that time. I have only recently heard of him, since he has been making such a jackass out of himself lately. I still can't really watch his show, since it's nothing more than vague, incoherent rambling. I did watch other FoxNews programs like The O'Reilly Factor and they were definitely not calling out Bush.

I will assure you that Beck did not call Bush a socialist or communist daily, even though Bush has spent much more money than Obama.

[troubledbyinsects]

I never did watch Beck's show during that time. I have only recently heard of him, since he has been making such a jackass out of himself lately. I still can't really watch his show, since it's nothing more than vague, incoherent rambling. I did watch other FoxNews programs like The O'Reilly Factor and they were definitely not calling out Bush.

I will assure you that Beck did not call Bush a socialist or communist daily, even though Bush has spent much more money than Obama.

it's been happening for quite a while now actually, not just lately

[J.C.]

If that's true, then why the heck do you support Glenn Beck? All he does is demonize one side and glorify the other, all while drawing erroneous conclusions that the bailout is the first step in the 'Road to Serfdom'.

Fiscally dude? Beck is on point. He was calling the same bullshit on George Bush 4 years ago too...if you actually watch his show, yes it's focused on obama and the dems right nwo b/c they're in power, but he generally stresses that it's all out of control and both sides are spending like wildmen.

Beck not only supported the bailout, he thought it needed more money.

BECK: "But these are anything but normal times. I thought about it an awful lot this weekend, and while it takes everything in me to say this, I think the bailout is the right thing do.

The "REAL STORY" is the $700 billion that you're hearing about now is not only, I believe, necessary, it is also not nearly enough, and all of the weasels in Washington know it."


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/22/gb.01.html

[jwicklun]

What a pointless, stupid event.

[caveBEAR]

Fiscally dude? Beck is on point. He was calling the same bullshit on George Bush 4 years ago too...if you actually watch his show, yes it's focused on obama and the dems right nwo b/c they're in power, but he generally stresses that it's all out of control and both sides are spending like wildmen.

:lolatpost:

Beck not only supported the bailout, he thought it needed more money.

:appl:

How i came to god was essentially looking at the world around me, the earth, the universe, and wondering where it all came from. After trying to think bigger, and bigger, and bigger...i eventually came to the conclusion that "well, that matter had to have come from somewhere, even if the big bang is true"...everything had to start from something before it - right? This vast world / reality that we live in cannot simply be a coincidence - SOMETHING, a personal god that i tend to believe in, or even just some type of greater power is behind all of this...sorry, i'm rambling.

but my point is, we came from somewhere and i am humble enough to say that as big as the universe is, I don't have all the answers...it's way bigger than i can imagine.

Once i understood this, you can get wrapped up in different religious theologies or whatever, but i've realized that my only purpose on this planet is to A) take attention away from myself and realize that i am not the center of the universe. B) give credit to the thought that something else is behind all this and i don't have all the answers and C) try to promote as much good in the world and help as many people in any way i can while i'm here.

Essentially - put everyone else above yourself.

If you're leading the country this way, and genuinely motivated to help every sect of people, instead of being motivated by money and lobbyists, i believe those are some good qualities of a leader and not detrimental to the country.

:violin:

Waaah, waaaaaah, waah, you seem to have come to some mighty big conclusions about the universe and it's inner workings, yet seem to have a tenuous grasp on the reality of this universe, namely, Glenn Beck is a money grabbing ass clown who changes his views to match whatever profile his audience will eat up, he doesn't actually give a shit about others, or as you put it, 'put everyone above [him]self'.

Your views on the universe and how it began/works are pretty simplistic as well.

[jwicklun]

This event was nothing more than for Glenn Beck to stroke his giant ego.

[<*)))><]

Funny listening to kids talk about this in a Halo lobby.

[RyanLowry]

I live just outside of the District, and I attended this event to see the insanity firsthand....It was terrifying on countless levels, that's about all I can say. I feel shell-shocked right now. It was like being transported back to the 1950s. Scary shit.

[wall e]

Glenn Beck is a fucking moron.

[Juan Jose]

who really gives a fuck about this? this has been all over the news about the controversy over what he's doing but seriously if people would stop giving him attention he would go away.

[kofiadrian]

who really gives a fuck about this? this has been all over the news about the controversy over what he's doing but seriously if people would stop giving him attention he would go away.

not that simple my friend.

[x togepi x]

I agree with the premise that we should bring the country back to god. Totally 100%

This is why we need to get rid of capitalism.

[Scrandon]

who really gives a fuck about this? this has been all over the news about the controversy over what he's doing but seriously if people would stop giving him attention he would go away.

No, then his supporters would be the only people giving him attention and there would be nothing but positive opinions out there about him.

[J.C.]

The real question is, why does Glenn Beck hate America?

I assume that's what we'd be asking if Obama suggested our country needed its honor restored.

[barkingincision]

op is a downright tool

[caveBEAR]

who really gives a fuck about this? this has been all over the news about the controversy over what he's doing but seriously if people would stop giving him attention he would go away.

He's a main focus of the most popular news network in America. Ignoring him will not make him go away.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

I live just outside of the District, and I attended this event to see the insanity firsthand....It was terrifying on countless levels, that's about all I can say. I feel shell-shocked right now. It was like being transported back to the 1950s. Scary shit.

What was the atmosphere of the crowd like?

[rawspinner]

I live just outside of the District, and I attended this event to see the insanity firsthand....It was terrifying on countless levels, that's about all I can say. I feel shell-shocked right now. It was like being transported back to the 1950s. Scary shit.

...and this is why this rally shouldn't have happened.

I agree with the premise that we should bring the country back to god. Totally 100%

This is why we need to get rid of capitalism.

I like you. You have balls. I like balls.

But in all seriousness, I love that you are willing to just come out and say it. However, it probably isn't very practical on a national level. I wonder how our country would change if more Christ-followers would start to live intentionally in community and lived like the early church, sharing all that they had.

[EDIT]: I just realized you are an atheist. It's crazy how you get it more then some Christians.

[x togepi x]

I like you. You have balls. I like balls.

But in all seriousness, I love that you are willing to just come out and say it. However, it probably isn't very practical on a national level. I wonder how our country would change if more Christ-followers would start to live intentionally in community and lived like the early church, sharing all that they had.

[EDIT]: I just realized you are an atheist. It's crazy how you get it more then some Christians.

I have no problem in saying that if Jesus were alive today, Glenn Beck would pull out the chalkboard and show how it's a fascist who wants to enslave our children.

[wileythekid]

I just got back from this, and it was shocking, to say the least. Swarms of white conservatves, decked out in american flag and tea party apparell. It was really surreall being right there with the tea partiers, and hearing Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin shout gibberish about restoring our country and bringing back God. It was one of the strangest and most infuriating things I've ever witnessed.

[Meeze]

Glenn Beck is Jesus.

[NeonBlonde407]

haha, i love old republicans

[Love As Arson]

Restoring honor = Restoring white majority

[Carolina.Alex]

I don't know too much about your religious background, but just to give you a brief glimpse of where i'm coming from.

How i came to god was essentially looking at the world around me, the earth, the universe, and wondering where it all came from. After trying to think bigger, and bigger, and bigger...i eventually came to the conclusion that "well, that matter had to have come from somewhere, even if the big bang is true"...everything had to start from something before it - right? This vast world / reality that we live in cannot simply be a coincidence - SOMETHING, a personal god that i tend to believe in, or even just some type of greater power is behind all of this...sorry, i'm rambling.

but my point is, we came from somewhere and i am humble enough to say that as big as the universe is, I don't have all the answers...it's way bigger than i can imagine.

Once i understood this, you can get wrapped up in different religious theologies or whatever, but i've realized that my only purpose on this planet is to A) take attention away from myself and realize that i am not the center of the universe. B) give credit to the thought that something else is behind all this and i don't have all the answers and C) try to promote as much good in the world and help as many people in any way i can while i'm here.

Essentially - put everyone else above yourself.

If you're leading the country this way, and genuinely motivated to help every sect of people, instead of being motivated by money and lobbyists, i believe those are some good qualities of a leader and not detrimental to the country.


Where did your god come from?

[Carolina.Alex]

I agree with the premise that we should bring the country back to god. Totally 100%

This is why we need to get rid of capitalism.


http://amyruttan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/1574576278_842b8978b1.jpg

[Debut_Fin]

Once i understood this, you can get wrapped up in different religious theologies or whatever, but i've realized that my only purpose on this planet is to A) take attention away from myself and realize that i am not the center of the universe. B) give credit to the thought that something else is behind all this and i don't have all the answers and C) try to promote as much good in the world and help as many people in any way i can while i'm here.

I don't believe in god and I still do A,B, and C

so, uh, yeah

[RushAndAPush]

I'll only be there if there is some sort of entertainment, worse comes to worse it's The DMB.

[jwicklun]

Life goes on. Sorry Beck, you're dream just wasn't quite revolutionary.

[thesollopsist]

Question. If a tree falls and no one is there to hear it, does it cry?

[BornUnderPunches]

Question. If a tree falls and no one is there to hear it, does it cry?
If a tree falls and crushes and kills a women, then what is a tree doing in the kitchen?

[rawspinner]

I have no problem in saying that if Jesus were alive today, Glenn Beck would pull out the chalkboard and show how it's a fascist who wants to enslave our children.

wait, the chalkboard is the facist or Jesus?

[DeviateRogue]

Bringing a country back to some mystical nonentity living up in the sky is about the worst thing I can think of. Religion is at the root at ALL of the problems in this country. Fact. Deny it if you want to, but it's the truth.

While I think Glenn Beck is a total idiot. I don't believe religion is the root of ALL problems in this country, how the fuck can religion have anything to do with economics, or the job market for that matter? Little bit ridiculous if you ask me. People that blame all problems on religion are just as ignorant as intolerant religious followers.

[Broclee]

Discussed this with some of friends, one of whom is a staunch social conservative, tonight at dinner. We all agreed that Glenn Beck is an asshat and that this rally was a gigantic piece of evidence for that.

[Broclee]

While I think Glenn Beck is a total idiot. I don't believe religion is the root of ALL problems in this country, how the fuck can religion have anything to do with economics, or the job market for that matter? Little bit ridiculous if you ask me. People that blame all problems on religion are just as ignorant as intolerant religious followers.
Amen to that brother. I'm not religious, but religion isn't as evil as it seems many non-religious make it out to be. People can be pretty goddamn evil all by themselves.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

While I think Glenn Beck is a total idiot. I don't believe religion is the root of ALL problems in this country, how the fuck can religion have anything to do with economics, or the job market for that matter? Little bit ridiculous if you ask me. People that blame all problems on religion are just as ignorant as intolerant religious followers.

I'm not religious at all, but I respect those who use their religion and devotion to Jesus for better causes, such as raising money to aid the poor and bringing communities together against violence.

[yayitsjoe]

If a tree falls and crushes and kills a women, then what is a tree doing in the kitchen?

hahahaha.

[jwicklun]

Religion can cause a lot of good, but it can cause a lot of stupidity. This was an example of stupidity.

[Love As Arson]

While I think Glenn Beck is a total idiot. I don't believe religion is the root of ALL problems in this country, how the fuck can religion have anything to do with economics, or the job market for that matter? Little bit ridiculous if you ask me. People that blame all problems on religion are just as ignorant as intolerant religious followers.
Well, religion is connected to economics, but mostly in the way it manifests itself.

[DeviateRogue]

Well, religion is connected to economics, but mostly in the way it manifests itself.

Eh, I was just trying to make a point that religion isn't the root of all evil, to that poster. I'm not heavily into politics, I just found said poster's statement a bit misinformed.

[Love As Arson]

I understand. I disagree with the point of view as well. The problem with the analysis is, it views religion as something which exists in a vacuum and spreads out to effect everything, when the baseline is economics and the social attitudes it breeds.

[GeeBee]

I don't know too much about your religious background, but just to give you a brief glimpse of where i'm coming from.

How i came to god was essentially looking at the world around me, the earth, the universe, and wondering where it all came from. After trying to think bigger, and bigger, and bigger...i eventually came to the conclusion that "well, that matter had to have come from somewhere, even if the big bang is true"...
A cute sentiment that still does absolutely nothing to prove the existence of any kind of deity.
everything had to start from something before it - right? Nope. You may want to do some more of this "wondering" and wonder on over to Google to research what's going on at Cern and the LHC...creating matter from nothing has been done, and will soon be done synthetically.
This vast world / reality that we live in cannot simply be a coincidence - SOMETHING, a personal god that i tend to believe in, or even just some type of greater power is behind all of this...sorry, i'm rambling.
It's not a coincidence. It's the result of millions of years of adaptation, far more amazing than some magic bearded sky-daddy farting everything into existence, which hardly does the wonder of life any justice.

By the by...if everything had to have a beginning...where did this "god" come from?
but my point is, we came from somewhere Yes, two humans swapped fluids and now here you are...perfectly explainable without any magic.
and i am humble enough to say that as big as the universe is, I don't have all the answers...it's way bigger than i can imagine. Funny, I didn't see any of that humility two sentences before when you claimed that it all "cannot simply be a coincidence". :rolleyes:

Once i understood this, you can get wrapped up in different religious theologies or whatever, but i've realized that my only purpose on this planet is to A) take attention away from myself and realize that i am not the center of the universe. Yep, and it's just that "wrapping up" of contradictions that will give you the most trouble in explaining any rational reason for believing what you do.
B) give credit to the thought that something else is behind all this and i don't have all the answers
Christ, did you mean to put a blatant contradiction within one word of itself?
and C) try to promote as much good in the world and help as many people in any way i can while i'm here. You don't need a deity to do so.

well, i guess that's just gonna come down to how you interpret it...All i know is that one day i was born, and i don't remember the first few days, months, or years of my life...but one day, i started to essentially "wake up" to consciousness and process my family, the world around me, etc...and it's real - I actually have a mind. "ME" inside my physical body, actually has feelings and emotions and thought - why?
All explainable very nicely by natural processes. But it's far LESS work and far MORE comforting to assume some magical origins and supreme "providence".

When i look at the universe, and space, and how big it all actually is. You have to choose to believe that space is the end-all-be-all, or there's something bigger beyond that...I tend to believe there's something bigger. What you've just done is commonly called a false dichotomy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma), both absurd and completely unnecessary.

In a nutshell...you're being intellectually lazy and farting out of your mouth when you attempt to explain the very faulty premise upon which you base your assumptions of deity's existence. Read more science books, and less into your own "feelings" on the matter.
I'm not religious at all, but I respect those who use their religion and devotion to Jesus for better causes, such as raising money to aid the poor and bringing communities together against violence.
This. All the fuzzy feelings in the world don't do jack shit for people with real problems.

[GeeBee]

Amen to that brother. I'm not religious, but religion isn't as evil as it seems many non-religious make it out to be. People can be pretty goddamn evil all by themselves.

This is silly.

People can be dicks all by themselves, so provide more irrational reasons for them to do so?
People can be nice for the sake of being nice, so why do we need to threaten them with hellfire for them to do so?

I argue against religion not because it's inherently evil, but because it adds unnecessary additional springboards for evil.

[Broclee]

This is silly.

People can be dicks all by themselves, so provide more irrational reasons for them to do so?
People can be nice for the sake of being nice, so why do we need to threaten them with hellfire for them to do so?

I argue against religion not because it's inherently evil, but because it adds unnecessary additional springboards for evil.
All I'm saying is that I feel like religion itself gets a lot of hate that deserves to also fall on the people themselves. I feel like too many people take the focus off the actual people and throw the blame onto religion. Sorry if that wasn't clear or worded poorly.

[StormSnares]

A cute sentiment that still does absolutely nothing to prove the existence of any kind of deity.
Nope. You may want to do some more of this "wondering" and wonder on over to Google to research what's going on at Cern and the LHC...creating matter from nothing has been done, and will soon be done synthetically.
It's not a coincidence. It's the result of millions of years of adaptation, far more amazing than some magic bearded sky-daddy farting everything into existence, which hardly does the wonder of life any justice.

By the by...if everything had to have a beginning...where did this "god" come from?
Yes, two humans swapped fluids and now here you are...perfectly explainable without any magic.
Funny, I didn't see any of that humility two sentences before when you claimed that it all "cannot simply be a coincidence". :rolleyes:

Yep, and it's just that "wrapping up" of contradictions that will give you the most trouble in explaining any rational reason for believing what you do.

Christ, did you mean to put a blatant contradiction within one word of itself?
You don't need a deity to do so.


All explainable very nicely by natural processes. But it's far LESS work and far MORE comforting to assume some magical origins and supreme "providence".

What you've just done is commonly called a false dichotomy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma), both absurd and completely unnecessary.

In a nutshell...you're being intellectually lazy and farting out of your mouth when you attempt to explain the very faulty premise upon which you base your assumptions of deity's existence. Read more science books, and less into your own "feelings" on the matter.

This. All the fuzzy feelings in the world don't do jack shit for people with real problems.

thanks for being respectful about all this...real classy.

dude, i'm not trying to prove the existance of God - it is impossible. But don't try to prove the absence of God either, because that, is also, impossible. This is just how i interpret the world around me and the conclusions I have come to. I'm not saying this is the absolute truth, but it's what i believe. You don't have to be condescending.

[Love As Arson]

thanks for being respectful about all this...real classy.

dude, i'm not trying to prove the existance of God - it is impossible. But don't try to prove the absence of God either, because that, is also, impossible. This is just how i interpret the world around me and the conclusions I have come to. I'm not saying this is the absolute truth, but it's what i believe. You don't have to be condescending.
The assumption of god implies totalization, so you can't say it is just what you believe.

[StormSnares]

The assumption of god implies totalization, so you can't say it is just what you believe.

dude, why are you being a jerk? I can absolutely say it's just what i believe. It's my opinion on God and the creation of this Earth. YOU can't tell me I'm wrong, and you're right because NEITHER of us KNOW or can PROVE it. And I'm not trying to. Please be reasonable.

[Love As Arson]

dude, why are you being a jerk? I can absolutely say it's just what i believe. It's my opinion on God and the creation of this Earth. YOU can't tell me I'm wrong, and you're right because NEITHER of us KNOW or can PROVE it. And I'm not trying to. Please be reasonable.
You just cannot assert, "Well, this is just what I believe. It is my own truth." It is disingenuous.

[StormSnares]

You just cannot assert, "Well, this is just what I believe. It is my own truth." It is disingenuous.

When it is about God and religion you can.

[Love As Arson]

When it is about God and religion you can.
The sects you choose is subjective. The concept of god is not. You are making an objective claim regarding reality.

[StormSnares]

The sects you choose is subjective. The concept of god is not. You are making an objective claim regarding reality.

What, that I believe in God? And you are essentially telling me, is that the truth is that God doesn't exist....this is not okay. I am entitled to my opinion and you, yours.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

When it is about God and religion you can.

Obviously when it comes to your deeply held beliefs, cognitive dissonance comes into play. It's perfectly natural to become conflicted at times with your belief system in the face with a logical debate. So this response is a natural motivation to reduce your dissonance. No one here is expecting to turn you athiest/agnostic.

[StormSnares]

Obviously when it comes to your deeply held beliefs, cognitive dissonance comes into play. It's perfectly natural to become conflicted at times with your belief system in the face with a logical debate. So this response is a natural motivation to reduce your dissonance. No one here is expecting to turn you athiest/agnostic.

the essence of what i'm saying is that I don't have the answers, and something out there is bigger than both me, and all of what I see around me.

I don't really feel too insecure in that belief.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

the essence of what i'm saying is that I don't have the answers, and something out there is bigger than both me, and all of what I see around me.

I don't really feel too insecure in that belief.

Yet, you're insecure enough to attempt to uphold your beliefs with faceless people in this forum through a debate. If you were truly secure in your beliefs, there would be no need to issue a single response. Keep in mind you were in the instigator in this thread, so you were just asking for responses.

[Love As Arson]

What, that I believe in God? And you are essentially telling me, is that the truth is that God doesn't exist....this is not okay. I am entitled to my opinion and you, yours.
No, I am saying that you cannot argue that it is just your belief when to claim god is to make universal claims. So, for example, you may say that you believe god created the world/universe and that is just your belief. Well, then you are getting into the territory of science which has an alternative, and more viable, theory regarding those things. For you to be consistent, you would have to make no claims, particularly as they pertain to a personal god; god would have to become, as it is for a lot of new age-types, just this impersonal force.

[RyanLowry]

Why has this devolved into a religious debate? Can we not just agree that although Glenn Beck undeniably had the right to hold this rally, and I would never try to prevent someone from exercising his/her First Amendment rights, his interpretation of history is nonsensical and inconsistent with facts, and serves primarily to support Mormon mythology (like that episode a week or two ago about the "lost civilization in St. Louis" that is not supported by any credible anthropologist or archaeologist)? The dude is a fucking idiot, and the fact that people don't realize this is sad.

[caveBEAR]

Why has this devolved into a religious debate?

This is how;

Glenn Beck is the man today. Let the flames begin.

I'm curious if you believe in / know the principles this country was founded on. Read through the constitution and declaration of independence and look for some God references, you'll be surprised.

PS. Do conservatives even exist in this forum?

How i came to god was essentially looking at the world around me, the earth, the universe, and wondering where it all came from. After trying to think bigger, and bigger, and bigger...i eventually came to the conclusion that "well, that matter had to have come from somewhere, even if the big bang is true"...everything had to start from something before it - right? This vast world / reality that we live in cannot simply be a coincidence - SOMETHING, a personal god that i tend to believe in, or even just some type of greater power is behind all of this...sorry, i'm rambling.

but my point is, we came from somewhere and i am humble enough to say that as big as the universe is, I don't have all the answers...it's way bigger than i can imagine.

Once i understood this, you can get wrapped up in different religious theologies or whatever, but i've realized that my only purpose on this planet is to A) take attention away from myself and realize that i am not the center of the universe. B) give credit to the thought that something else is behind all this and i don't have all the answers and C) try to promote as much good in the world and help as many people in any way i can while i'm here.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Why has this devolved into a religious debate? Can we not just agree that although Glenn Beck undeniably had the right to hold this rally, and I would never try to prevent someone from exercising his/her First Amendment rights, his interpretation of history is nonsensical and inconsistent with facts, and serves primarily to support Mormon mythology (like that episode a week or two ago about the "lost civilization in St. Louis" that is not supported by any credible anthropologist or archaeologist)? The dude is a fucking idiot, and the fact that people don't realize this is sad.

Glenn Beck will be next in the long line of televangelists, along the lines of Jim Bakker and Benny Hinn.

To quote L. Ron Hubbard: "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion."

To quote Max von Sydow's character in Hannah and Her Sisters: "The worst are the fundamentalist preachers. Third grade con men telling the poor suckers that watch them that they speak with Jesus, and to please send in money. Money, money, money! If Jesus came back and saw what's going on in his name, he'd never stop throwing up."

[splitsecond]

Bringing a country back to some mystical nonentity living up in the sky is about the worst thing I can think of. Religion is at the root at ALL of the problems in this country. Fact. Deny it if you want to, but it's the truth.

I tend to stay out of this forum because there are some any stupid statements, but something this brash calls for a shut the fuck up.

[splitsecond]

Amen to that brother. I'm not religious, but religion isn't as evil as it seems many non-religious make it out to be. People can be pretty goddamn evil all by themselves.

People are the root of evil. People take almost every GOOD thing (including basic religion) and twist it and turn it into something negative.

[caveBEAR]

I tend to stay out of this forum because there are some any stupid statements, but something this brash calls for a shut the fuck up.

Oh my...you're being so brash.

[sargentlgfuad]

omg, i love glenn beck so freakin' much, he speakifdatruth.

[saysmydoctor]

When it is about God and religion you can.
What?

[DeviateRogue]

I tend to stay out of this forum because there are some any stupid statements, but something this brash calls for a shut the fuck up.
Same here, I don't know shit about politics. But I know that statement was so vehemently incorrect.

[perceptrons]

Same here, I don't know shit about politics. But I know that statement was so vehemently incorrect.
I don't know about "vehemently incorrect," but I'd agree that it was hyperbolic.

[Jimmy_Love]

I believe in God, I'm technically a conservative, but I also think Glenn Beck should fall off a cliff.

[samsara]

I have to agree with the fact that some AP members are being complete assholes with a few of their statements. Basically being arrogant with "I'm right you are wrong" statements. Fucking grown up.

[Scrandon]

I have to agree with the fact that some AP members are being complete assholes with a few of their statements. Basically being arrogant with "I'm right you are wrong" statements. Fucking grown up.

Nothing new

[SunnyInPhilly]

Bringing a country back to some mystical nonentity living up in the sky is about the worst thing I can think of. Religion is at the root at ALL of the problems in this country. Fact. Deny it if you want to, but it's the truth.

You don't understand what the word "fact" means. Fact.

[Love As Arson]

I have to agree with the fact that some AP members are being complete assholes with a few of their statements. Basically being arrogant with "I'm right you are wrong" statements. Fucking grown up.
Some people are right, some people are moronic.

[circasuicide]

glenn beck can't be a real person.

[EasySkankin]

I haven't seen the speech, don't know if it's worth it. Is he trying to start his own church or something?


Nope. You may want to do some more of this "wondering" and wonder on over to Google to research what's going on at Cern and the LHC...creating matter from nothing has been done, and will soon be done synthetically.
Link? I can't find shit.

[TheProsAndCons]

What, that I believe in God? And you are essentially telling me, is that the truth is that God doesn't exist....this is not okay. I am entitled to my opinion and you, yours.

You didn't twist his words at all there.

[caveBEAR]

Link? I can't find shit.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=creating+matter+synthetically&rlz=1R2ADBR_enUS329&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CsLEubWJ6TMjDIoGOzQSwnM2OAQ AAAKoEBU_Qad2n&safe=strict <-- Google results for searching 'creating matter synthetically'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider <-- Wikipedia on the LHC.


Jesus people, it doesn't get any easier than Google...

[Debut_Fin]

glenn beck can't be a real person.

he is just an IRL troll that feeds off of the attention of his supporters and haters

[GeeBee]

thanks for being respectful about all this...real classy.

dude, i'm not trying to prove the existance of God - it is impossible. But don't try to prove the absence of God either, because that, is also, impossible. This is just how i interpret the world around me and the conclusions I have come to. I'm not saying this is the absolute truth, but it's what i believe. You don't have to be condescending.
I don't need to prove the absence of god. It's called the "burden of proof" for a reason. I'm not making an assertion...you are.
Again...pretty elementary stuff. And apparently I DO have to be condescending, because your rationale (which you posted of your own volition) is completely filled with holes.
When it is about God and religion you can.
Back this up. Except you can't.
the essence of what i'm saying is that I don't have the answers, and something out there is bigger than both me, and all of what I see around me.

I don't really feel too insecure in that belief.
Again...you're failing to see why the bolded statements are incompatible. You first claim to not have "the answers", only then to make a claim that is arguably the BIGGEST answer of them all...and is inherently universal. Hence, you are contradicting yourself in the same sentence, and attempting to force your worldview onto the entire population as a statement of fact.

Again...very elementary concepts.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=creating+matter+synthetically&rlz=1R2ADBR_enUS329&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CsLEubWJ6TMjDIoGOzQSwnM2OAQ AAAKoEBU_Qad2n&safe=strict <-- Google results for searching 'creating matter synthetically'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider <-- Wikipedia on the LHC.


Jesus people, it doesn't get any easier than Google...

Why turn to Google when it doesn't give me warm fuzzies like Pastor Rick can? :rolleyes:

[GeeBee]

I tend to stay out of this forum because there are some any stupid statements, but something this brash calls for a shut the fuck up.

His first sentence makes a great point and a lot of sense. I'd like you to expound on your problem with the first sentence.

[Mibabalou]

I have no respect for religious people, whatsoever. People tell me it makes you "brave" to be religious in our current society, but the fact is, it doesn't make you brave, it makes you weak. You're so afraid to consider the idea that when you're dead, you're DEAD. It scares me too, but at least I've been able to accept it.

hmmmmm

[caveBEAR]

hmmmmm

Hmmmmm?

[Mibabalou]

Hmmmmm?

Just think that statement is very brash, im not very religious but still, I doubt that guy would go up to a minister / rabbi / ect and be like "Its your peoples fault for all of the worlds problems"

I mean just quick examples, im a a party last night and some kid is like trying to steal shit at this kids place and a big fight breaks out, how is that religions fault?

If any thing should be labeled as the cause to all the worlds problems, id say its money.

[caveBEAR]

Just think that statement is very brash, im not very religious but still, I doubt that guy would go up to a minister / rabbi / ect and be like "Its your peoples fault for all of the worlds problems"

I mean just quick examples, im a a party last night and some kid is like trying to steal shit at this kids place and a big fight breaks out, how is that religions fault?

If any thing should be labeled as the cause to all the worlds problems, id say its money.

His post was full of hyperbole, but he was pretty spot on with '[p]eople tell me it makes you "brave" to be religious in our current society, but the fact is, it doesn't make you brave...', until he ventured into 'it makes you weak' territory. I do agree that people acting like being Christian in America takes balls are completely full of shit, it's like standing up and yelling 'I enjoyed the Matrix but didn't care for the sequels!' No one's going to take offense to your views.

As well, TJ was spot on with, '[b]ringing a country back to some mystical nonentity living up in the sky is about the worst thing I can think of.' He then hopped on the hyperbole train with the 'religion is the root of all problems' thing, but I definitely agree that one thing we don't need U.S. politicians doing is getting even closer to God.

[JordanBuell]

thanks for being respectful about all this...real classy.

dude, i'm not trying to prove the existance of God - it is impossible. But don't try to prove the absence of God either, because that, is also, impossible. This is just how i interpret the world around me and the conclusions I have come to. I'm not saying this is the absolute truth, but it's what i believe. You don't have to be condescending.

yeah dude i totally agree. its all about how you interpret the world, there is no right or wrong. i interpret the world was created by a giant unicorn and you cant tell me that i am wrong.

[caveBEAR]

There is a need for separation between church and state, but that doesn't mean it should be a crime or looked down upon to be a leader who believes.

The bolded is null & void if said leader may believe Muslim things, right?

[EasySkankin]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=creating+matter+synthetically&rlz=1R2ADBR_enUS329&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CsLEubWJ6TMjDIoGOzQSwnM2OAQ AAAKoEBU_Qad2n&safe=strict <-- Google results for searching 'creating matter synthetically'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider <-- Wikipedia on the LHC.


Jesus people, it doesn't get any easier than Google...
Well you claimed we created matter from nothing. There is no claim to that on the wiki page or the google links. If you're talking about assembling life from DNA, that would be understandable.

I say this because my understanding of the origins of the universe comes from the scientific law that energy and matter cannot be created nor destroyed, only manipulated. So again, i'd implore you to back up your claim.

[caveBEAR]

Well you claimed we created matter from nothing. There is no claim to that on the wiki page or the google links. If you're talking about assembling life from DNA, that would be understandable.

I say this because my understanding of the origins of the universe comes from the scientific law that energy and matter cannot be created nor destroyed, only manipulated. So again, i'd implore you to back up your claim.

I didn't claim anything, I just posted links that would be pertinent to your questions. Someone else much more well-versed in this subject should respond to you, as I'm not the best to give you a qualified response.

[GeeBee]

Well you claimed we created matter from nothing. There is no claim to that on the wiki page or the google links. If you're talking about assembling life from DNA, that would be understandable.

I say this because my understanding of the origins of the universe comes from the scientific law that energy and matter cannot be created nor destroyed, only manipulated. So again, i'd implore you to back up your claim.

Higgs Boson
Stephen Hawking - A Brief History of Time

Start there. But no one's going to give you a physics lesson on a message board.

[BornUnderPunches]

ew

[EasySkankin]

Higgs Boson
Stephen Hawking - A Brief History of Time

Start there. But no one's going to give you a physics lesson on a message board.
Have you read it? If there really was such a scientific breakthrough, wouldn't there at least be a respectable article on it? This is a cop-out to a false premise. You can't create matter from nothing. It's like saying 2+2=5, the laws of physics simply don't make it feasible. If you've read material on it, and it was convincing enough to have you saying "matter can be created from nothing", then you should be able to give some kind of explanation for it. Otherwise, you're just as lazy as the religious who believe with no reason to believe.

Jesus people, it's as simple as being genuine.

[Zeran]

Ones that can be taken seriously? Only but a modest few I'm afraid, and they're too intelligent to align themselves with the type that would listen to Glenn Beck.
many american conservatives today are not really conservative, but rather radicals.
http://images.memegenerator.net/Advice-Dog/ImageMacro/2326129/God-mentioned-in-Constitution-Obviously-intended-theocracy.jpg
lol
Yes, but the peoples decision in this matter tramples equality, freedom and liberty. It's easy to crow about 'the evils of government' when you don't like the positive things the government (and more so, the judicial system) can bring about, i.e., gay marriage (and the like).
i think it's really easy for someone to make a blanket statement like "government is corrupt and bad and never does anything good", when actually, the government has done and continues to do many good things and we need to fundamentally rely on government to protect and expand our liberties and freedoms. gay marriage being a prime example.
holy generalization, batman. I'm a christian and i'm also pro-choice and pro-gay rights. just because the loudest sector of christians are braindead doesn't meant that you should discount everything that the religious says. btw.... i'm also not convinced that there is an afterlife. just because someone's religious doesn't mean that they fit into the box of the religious right.
couldn't have said it better myself.
What a pointless, stupid event.
yeah...this is such a non-"history will be made" event, it's stupid.
Restoring honor = Restoring white majority

they want to take back their country, i.e. maintain their white skin color's dominant position in society, like it was in the 50's.

also, i think some people were a bit harsh on the OP.

[lennyd44]

Glenn who?

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

So how many people did attend the rally? (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/29/wildly-conflicting-reports-about-beck-rally-crowd-size/) CBS estimates between 78k - 96k people. Fox News Estimates over 500k. And Michele Bachmann's estimation: "We're not going to let anyone get away with saying there were less than a million here today – because we were witnesses."

[jwicklun]

So how many people did attend the rally? (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/29/wildly-conflicting-reports-about-beck-rally-crowd-size/) CBS estimates between 78k - 96k people. Fox News Estimates over 500k. And Michele Bachmann's estimation: "We're not going to let anyone get away with saying there were less than a million here today – because we were witnesses."

CBS has a liberal bias. Fox News knows the truth.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

CBS has a liberal bias. Fox News knows the truth.

But CBS used scientific methods!!

Oh, and I just came across a tweet by Palin:

Silly media reports“maybe thousands”@Beck (http://twitter.com/Beck)’s "irrelevant" event;insinuating MSM sheeple mustn't believe their own eyes&ears re: event's truth

[StormSnares]

Well you claimed we created matter from nothing. There is no claim to that on the wiki page or the google links. If you're talking about assembling life from DNA, that would be understandable.

I say this because my understanding of the origins of the universe comes from the scientific law that energy and matter cannot be created nor destroyed, only manipulated. So again, i'd implore you to back up your claim.

bam.

I didn't claim anything, I just posted links that would be pertinent to your questions. Someone else much more well-versed in this subject should respond to you, as I'm not the best to give you a qualified response.

cop-out.

And to whoever said they thought the world was created by a giant unicorn, that's your prerogative.

[OurRequiem]

Glenn who?
teh lulz

[SunnyInPhilly]

many american conservatives today are not really conservative, but rather radicals.

This is an idiotic statement. There is absolutely no difference between you saying this and a conservative saying that many of todays liberals are communists.

they want to take back their country, i.e. maintain their white skin color's dominant position in society, like it was in the 50's.

Jesus christ you can't be serious. I hope you're not really this ignorant.

[reckoner]

So how many people did attend the rally? (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/29/wildly-conflicting-reports-about-beck-rally-crowd-size/) CBS estimates between 78k - 96k people. Fox News Estimates over 500k. And Michele Bachmann's estimation: "We're not going to let anyone get away with saying there were less than a million here today – because we were witnesses."

She is so crazy. After all the incredibly stupid things she's said this term you'd think there'd be no chance of her being re-elected. Unfortunately, her district is quite conservative so she might be around for 2 more years.

[caveBEAR]

cop-out.

Not a cop-out at all. First of all, I didn't make the post bringing up creating life or anything pertaining to religion, I simply posted links to someone asking, 'links?'. Second of all, these are very deep, complex systems and 'experiments' that I don't pretend to be an expert on, and I refuse to dampen their impact simply because I cannot convey the grand scope of it all. Ask Geebee, or better yet (no offense Geebee), someone like vody, and they'll at least do justice to the argument at hand.

[caveBEAR]

This is an idiotic statement. There is absolutely no difference between you saying this and a conservative saying that many of todays liberals are communists.

Many of the driving forces behind today's 'conservative' movement have extremely radical views. See; here (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html?_r=1&hp) and here (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer). Focus mainly on the Kochs.

[Zeran]

This is an idiotic statement. There is absolutely no difference between you saying this and a conservative saying that many of todays liberals are communists.



Jesus christ you can't be serious. I hope you're not really this ignorant.

b91phmPQScY
xCn5jdpKoDo&feature=related

most liberals stand believe in truly liberal, progressive ideas that are rooted in historical ideas about society. there are a lot of conservatives who have gone farther right and are no longer truly conservative, as in what conservatism meant when it became a more modern political mode of thought, but radical right.

what, then, do those people who scream "i want my country back" mean? what do they actually mean?

[circasuicide]

His post was full of hyperbole, but he was pretty spot on with '[p]eople tell me it makes you "brave" to be religious in our current society, but the fact is, it doesn't make you brave...', until he ventured into 'it makes you weak' territory. I do agree that people acting like being Christian in America takes balls are completely full of shit, it's like standing up and yelling 'I enjoyed the Matrix but didn't care for the sequels!' No one's going to take offense to your views.

As well, TJ was spot on with, '[b]ringing a country back to some mystical nonentity living up in the sky is about the worst thing I can think of.' He then hopped on the hyperbole train with the 'religion is the root of all problems' thing, but I definitely agree that one thing we don't need U.S. politicians doing is getting even closer to God.

but is there cause to call people who believe in a god weak? i do agree that people who act like being a christian is akin to wearing the scarlet letter are ridiculous, but so are atheist that act the same.

as far as elected officials being christian, i don't care(i'm a christian myself, btw) what i care about is ending these wars, fixing the economy, and equal rights for gays. those are my top three, anyway. i want a leader with character, what he believes is largely irrelevant to me.

[jawstheme]

Bringing a country back to some mystical nonentity living up in the sky is about the worst thing I can think of. Religion is at the root at ALL of the problems in this country. Fact. Deny it if you want to, but it's the truth.

Yeah greed and capitalism probably don't have deeper roots to the problems in this country. What a stupid, offensive statement.

[caveBEAR]

but is there cause to call people who believe in a god weak?

I said there wasn't cause for that.

i do agree that people who act like being a christian is akin to wearing the scarlet letter are ridiculous, but so are atheist that act the same.

Not really. The average 23 year old whining about being 'persecuted' for being atheist is (usually) just as deluded as the 'Brave Christian', but (in most cases) policy makers coming out with their atheism is career suicide. It's definitely still a 'scarlet letter' in some facets of American life.

as far as elected officials being christian, i don't care(i'm a christian myself, btw) what i care about is ending these wars, fixing the economy, and equal rights for gays. those are my top three, anyway. i want a leader with character, what he believes is largely irrelevant to me.

Agreed.

[jawstheme]

Glenn Beck is the antichrist.

Haha, this may be true.

[x togepi x]

wait, the chalkboard is the facist or Jesus?

haha i meant jesus.

http://amyruttan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/1574576278_842b8978b1.jpg

Yeah, If i didn't know what I was talking about, I'd just post image responses too.

[circasuicide]

I said there wasn't cause for that.



Not really. The average 23 year old whining about being 'persecuted' for being atheist is (usually) just as deluded as the 'Brave Christian', but (in most cases) policy makers coming out with their atheism is career suicide. It's definitely still a 'scarlet letter' in some facets of American life.



Agreed.

i was referring to the guy you quote, sorry for the confusion.


i've just ran into quite a few atheists that act like they will get stoned to death if they say they don't believe in god. i think both sides have their extremes. as for public officials, i agree completely and it's a shame. my mom is the type to instantly consider someone if they say they're christian. she still likes george w. because he was a 'christian'.

[RyanLowry]

As someone who attended both this ridiculous event as well as the Presidential Inauguration, I can tell you with 100% certainty that there were NOWHERE NEAR ONE MILLION PEOPLE THERE. Not even 500,000. CBS' estimate sounds about right. These people are so fucking stupid it's not even funny.

[perceptrons]

but is there cause to call people who believe in a god weak? i do agree that people who act like being a christian is akin to wearing the scarlet letter are ridiculous, but so are atheist that act the same.

There is definitely an argument to be made that some who believe in God are weak. Those who use it as a crutch, similarly to the way some alcoholics are, would be who I would be referring to.

As far as your second point, I hope you aren't equating Christians to atheists in terms of persecution in this country.


as far as elected officials being christian, i don't care(i'm a christian myself, btw) what i care about is ending these wars, fixing the economy, and equal rights for gays. those are my top three, anyway. i want a leader with character, what he believes is largely irrelevant to me.
Beliefs are irrelevant? I'm not sure how you could separate the beliefs of someone from their character.

[SunnyInPhilly]

Many of the driving forces behind today's 'conservative' movement have extremely radical views. See; here (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html?_r=1&hp) and here (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer). Focus mainly on the Kochs.

Wealthy people using their money to influence politics. What a revolutionary thought. Certainly only happens with conservatives. As far as "radical views", I'm at work so I could only skim the articles. The only views I saw were traditional libertarian views, which they identify themselves as. Lower taxes, less govt oversight, less govt programs, etc. I may have missed something, because those views certainly aren't radical.

[circasuicide]

There is definitely an argument to be made that some who believe in God are weak. Those who use it as a crutch, similarly to the way some alcoholics are, would be who I would be referring to.

As far as your second point, I hope you aren't equating Christians to atheists in terms of persecution in this country.


Beliefs are irrelevant? I'm not sure how you could separate the beliefs of someone from their character.

i am. i'm talking every day people, not elected officials. i see no difference.

people cling to all kinds of beliefs. for some atheism, sports, etc. become just as much of a crutch as christianity can be. you didn't say 'some' people who believed in god are weak, you made a blanket statement, but you made it more clear now.

what i mean but beliefs being largely irrelevant is if someone is of good character, but not a christian, i'm not going to overlook them and settle on someone of weaker character that is.

[J.C.]

This is an idiotic statement. There is absolutely no difference between you saying this and a conservative saying that many of todays liberals are communists.

Jesus christ you can't be serious. I hope you're not really this ignorant.

A lot of the "take our country back" bullshit is definitely rooted in a fear of the country's changing makeup. It's the timeless conservative mantra that finds its voice whenever their people fall out of power and they fear an oncoming shift away from their traditional thought, which the course of history tells us is inevitable. The fear manifests itself in a lot of the bigoted positions the most extreme end up staking out. They don't like other people/the government telling them what to do, but they want to tell people what language they need to speak, who they can marry, and where they can build their mosque.

Those are positions that would be considered extreme by any other measure, but because they've found a home within one of the country's two major political parties, they get treated as 'mainstream', which lends a false credence that only aids their prevalence.

There are elements of the Democratic party that could be deemed extreme as well. The difference is the party doesn't take its cues from their most extreme elements, whereas the Republicans adopt and placate to the crazies under their tent. That has caused an even more dramatic shift to the right.

[circasuicide]

think it's time for another civil war.

[SunnyInPhilly]

b91phmPQScY
xCn5jdpKoDo&feature=related

most liberals stand believe in truly liberal, progressive ideas that are rooted in historical ideas about society. there are a lot of conservatives who have gone farther right and are no longer truly conservative, as in what conservatism meant when it became a more modern political mode of thought, but radical right.

what, then, do those people who scream "i want my country back" mean? what do they actually mean?

The fact that you essentially called yesterday a KKK rally makes me think you're well qualified to talk about conservative ideals and unbiased enough to have a real debate with. Radicals have always been around and always will be, on both sides. Please detail to me what ideals of mainstream conservatism have shifted to the point where the majority are now radical.

[perceptrons]

i am. i'm talking every day people, not elected officials. i see no difference.
I'm not saying that whenever I tell someone that I am an atheist that they proceed to dump Holy water on me and shout heathen, but there are definite differences in day to day life.


people cling to all kinds of beliefs. for some atheism, sports, etc. become just as much of a crutch as christianity can be. you didn't say 'some' people who believed in god are weak, you made a blanket statement, but you made it more clear now.
I said nothing of the sort. The post you just quoted was the first post of mine on the topic. TJ Wells made the blanket statement. I also didn't say that religion is the only crutch, in fact, I gave another example in the same post.


what i mean but beliefs being largely irrelevant is if someone is of good character, but not a christian, i'm not going to overlook them and settle on someone of weaker character that is.
Ah.

[kofiadrian]

think it's time for another civil war.



nah. Give it a few more decades.

[SunnyInPhilly]

A lot of the "take our country back" bullshit is definitely rooted in a fear of the country's changing makeup. It's the timeless conservative mantra that finds its voice whenever their people fall out of power and they fear an oncoming shift away from their traditional thought, which the course of history tells us is inevitable. The fear manifests itself in a lot of the bigoted positions the most extreme end up staking out. They don't like other people/the government telling them what to do, but they want to tell people what language they need to speak, who they can marry, and where they can build their mosque.

Those are positions that would be considered extreme by any other measure, but because they've found a home within one of the country's two major political parties, they get treated as 'mainstream', which lends a false credence that only aids their prevalence.

There are elements of the Democratic party that could be deemed extreme as well. The difference is the party doesn't take its cues from their most extreme elements, whereas the Republicans adopt and placate to the crazies under their tent. That has caused an even more dramatic shift to the right.

And you see liberals proposed limitations as what? Gun control laws, climate change control, etc. They're not fear mongering or controlling anyone, they're all for our protection, right? Only conservatives try to control others.

[circasuicide]

I'm not saying that whenever I tell someone that I am an atheist that they proceed to dump Holy water on me and shout heathen, but there are definite differences in day to day life.


I said nothing of the sort. The post you just quoted was the first post of mine on the topic. TJ Wells made the blanket statement. I also didn't say that religion is the only crutch, in fact, I gave another example in the same post.


Ah.

can you give me some examples?

and my apologies for the misunderstanding.

[circasuicide]

is there anyone still alive that can claim to 'remember when this country was great'?

[Zeran]

The fact that you essentially called yesterday a KKK rally makes me think you're well qualified to talk about conservative ideals and unbiased enough to have a real debate with. Radicals have always been around and always will be, on both sides. Please detail to me what ideals of mainstream conservatism have shifted to the point where the majority are now radical./QUOTE]

[QUOTE=J.C.;74212002]A lot of the "take our country back" bullshit is definitely rooted in a fear of the country's changing makeup. It's the timeless conservative mantra that finds its voice whenever their people fall out of power and they fear an oncoming shift away from their traditional thought, which the course of history tells us is inevitable. The fear manifests itself in a lot of the bigoted positions the most extreme end up staking out. They don't like other people/the government telling them what to do, but they want to tell people what language they need to speak, who they can marry, and where they can build their mosque.

Those are positions that would be considered extreme by any other measure, but because they've found a home within one of the country's two major political parties, they get treated as 'mainstream', which lends a false credence that only aids their prevalence.

There are elements of the Democratic party that could be deemed extreme as well. The difference is the party doesn't take its cues from their most extreme elements, whereas the Republicans adopt and placate to the crazies under their tent. That has caused an even more dramatic shift to the right.

j.c. explained it better than i did, i suppose, but i certainly didn't call the restoring honor event a kkk rally. here's one aspect of how the republicans have turned away from traditional conservatism: conservatism is supposed to be about valuing individual rights and freedoms, yet many prominent and powerful republican politicians have endorsed an idea to repeal basic and fundamental rights such as the 14th amendment, not so subtly because they don't like latinos coming here and having "anchor babies" or whatever. http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/08/boehner-14th/
true conservatism would defend the rights of minorities because they have a set of inherent individual rights, and yet the republican party has increasingly become more and more a party of exclusion and division at the expense of those on the "out group", i.e., not like themselves, predominantly white, christian, well-off people. the conservative movement should be changing itself to adapt to the new situation the world and the u.s. finds itself in, in order to better the lives of people, but this isn't happening. in fact, the opposite is happening.

Wealthy people using their money to influence politics. What a revolutionary thought. Certainly only happens with conservatives. As far as "radical views", I'm at work so I could only skim the articles. The only views I saw were traditional libertarian views, which they identify themselves as. Lower taxes, less govt oversight, less govt programs, etc. I may have missed something, because those views certainly aren't radical.

i think the main issue with the koch brother's is that a lot of what they do with their vast amounts of money is hidden and uncertain. some of their views are radical because they would like to see things like the fbi, cia, and public schools be abolished.

[BornUnderPunches]

is there anyone still alive that can claim to 'remember when this country was great'?
depends what they mean by great, I'd assume.

[perceptrons]

can you give me some examples?

and my apologies for the misunderstanding.
If I felt like talking to a child about my beliefs in a group of people, I guarantee you that I would be stopped by someone almost immediately. If a Christian talks to a child about Christian myth, rarely would anyone even bat an eyelash.

I can't even estimate how times in a class I've heard a teacher/professor preface a topic that might upset some Christians because they know they have to or they'll hear about it later.

The fact that being a Christian is the default position that has been assigned to me on innumerable occasions throughout my life and when I correct them, I usually have to answer some inane line of questioning or watch them try and wipe the stupid look of judgement off their face.

There is an article called Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack that I could probably write an atheist version of, so if you look that up, you might get a sense of the differences.

[J.C.]

And you see liberals proposed limitations as what? Gun control laws, climate change control, etc. They're not fear mongering or controlling anyone, they're all for our protection, right? Only conservatives try to control others.

You don't have to get defensive. The two issues you alluded to would fall under concern for welfare and safety. They're both issues with a legitimate basis for discussion that have an impact on the lives of everyone. Perhaps you'd like to come up with a better example, since the three I gave are little more than bigotry for bigotry's sake. I was pointing to the hypocrisy as well. It's not inherently wrong to think the government needs to play a role in some issue. It is hypocritical, however, to rail against the excesses of an overbearing government, all while advocating their power be used as the solution to matters that aren't in any way detrimental to their own lives or freedoms.

[perceptrons]

Here's an article (http://atheism.about.com/od/christianismnationalism/p/XianPrivileges.htm) that lists out some aspects of Christian priviledge (obviously some have more merit than others).

[circasuicide]

If I felt like talking to a child about my beliefs in a group of people, I guarantee you that I would be stopped by someone almost immediately. If a Christian talks to a child about Christian myth, rarely would anyone even bat an eyelash.

I can't even estimate how times in a class I've heard a teacher/professor preface a topic that might upset some Christians because they know they have to or they'll hear about it later.

The fact that being a Christian is the default position that has been assigned to me on innumerable occasions throughout my life and when I correct them, I usually have to answer some inane line of questioning or watch them try and wipe the stupid look of judgement off their face.

There is an article called Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack that I could probably write an atheist version of, so if you look that up, you might get a sense of the differences.

interesting. i'm sorry you are put in those type of positions because of your beliefs, or lackthereof. i'll check out that article.

[SunnyInPhilly]

j.c. explained it better than i did, i suppose, but i certainly didn't call the restoring honor event a kkk rally. here's one aspect of how the republicans have turned away from traditional conservatism: conservatism is supposed to be about valuing individual rights and freedoms, yet many prominent and powerful republican politicians have endorsed an idea to repeal basic and fundamental rights such as the 14th amendment, not so subtly because they don't like latinos coming here and having "anchor babies" or whatever. http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/08/boehner-14th/
true conservatism would defend the rights of minorities because they have a set of inherent individual rights, and yet the republican party has increasingly become more and more a party of exclusion and division at the expense of those on the "out group", i.e., not like themselves, predominantly white, christian, well-off people. the conservative movement should be changing itself to adapt to the new situation the world and the u.s. finds itself in, in order to better the lives of people, but this isn't happening. in fact, the opposite is happening.

To illegally enter the country, have a baby, and have them automatically become a citizen, is nowhere near a "basic right". And your statement was misleading. They are open to repealing PART of the 14th ammendment, specifically the one you addressed. Not the entire thing. People illegally entering the country to give their children automatic citizenship would never have been universally endorsed by conservatives. They would support everyone's right to apply for citizenship and be approved if they met the requirements, not obtain it through a loophole in the system.

i think the main issue with the koch brother's is that a lot of what they do with their vast amounts of money is hidden and uncertain. some of their views are radical because they would like to see things like the fbi, cia, and public schools be abolished.

I could see why that might make some people curious, but they aren't govt and therefore aren't responsible for accounting for their personal finances to the American public. That really has nothing to do with being radical, though. As far as their views, do you have a link to a reputable source stating these views? I've never heard anything about it.

[caveBEAR]

To illegally enter the country, have a baby, and have them automatically become a citizen, is nowhere near a "basic right".

http://dailyfacepalm.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/facepalm_qjgenth.jpg

[SunnyInPhilly]

http://dailyfacepalm.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/facepalm_qjgenth.jpg

Great point.

[caveBEAR]

Great point.

Sorry, you just began with the FoxNEWS equivalent of a conspiracy theorist rant about Freemasons, so I didn't feel it required a proper rebuttal.

[SunnyInPhilly]

Sorry, you just began with the FoxNEWS equivalent of a conspiracy theorist rant about Freemasons, so I didn't feel it required a proper rebuttal.

Not a rant. Specifically addressed the point he made. If you don't want to actually discuss something, at least be entertaining or original. You were neither.

[StephenYoung]

Do you realize that we have never elected a president who wasn't Christian? Not a coincidence.
What's the one thing almost all members of Congress have in common? They are religious. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_111th_United_States_ Congress)
http://i37.tinypic.com/jqgi03.png

However, to humor you, tell me specifically how having God in someone's life is going to help them better serve your needs. And remember you're "socially liberal" so none of that 'respecting the institution of marriage' crap.

What does "religious" mean? Do they all go to church and respect their teachings, etc.? I doubt it. Not all of them are super religious.


Anyways, people who dis religion are as much of a stupid fuck as those who shove it down your throat. Yeah it starts shit, and many people take it to a whole other level, but at the base of every religion, there are morals one should live by. Simple morals which I'm sure many people here agree with. These morals are represented by stories, which at the time they were written I can only assume were made up, and now people (both hardcore religious people, and people who think religion is stupid) seem to think that us Christians/muslims/jews/buddhists are convinced happened for real. No I do not believe that a fucking snake told our ancestors to eat bad shit and fuck, and wear clothes. But I do believe that if you do succumb to temptation, your life risks being considerably worse than it was had you not. That's just one example.

As for the people who say it isn't hard being religious, well, it isn't. But for those who are teenagers who have to live in a world where it's cool to be "atheist" and trash other people's beliefs, well that just sucks.


And I also hate Glen Beck, just for the record.

[caveBEAR]

Not a rant. Specifically addressed the point he made. If you don't want to actually discuss something, at least be entertaining or original. You were neither.

'Anchor babies' (which you're talking about) do not insure this instantaneous citizenship for their parents like your address hints and most conservative talking heads have been screaming. The much more realistic scenario is the American citizen (the child) being separated from his parents due to deportation.

[Scrandon]

What does "religious" mean? Do they all go to church and respect their teachings, etc.? I doubt it. Not all of them are super religious.


Anyways, people who dis religion are as much of a stupid fuck as those who shove it down your throat. Yeah it starts shit, and many people take it to a whole other level, but at the base of every religion, there are morals one should live by. Simple morals which I'm sure many people here agree with. These morals are represented by stories, which at the time they were written I can only assume were made up, and now people (both hardcore religious people, and people who think religion is stupid) seem to think that us Christians/muslims/jews/buddhists are convinced happened for real. No I do not believe that a fucking snake told our ancestors to eat bad shit and fuck, and wear clothes. But I do believe that if you do succumb to temptation, your life risks being considerably worse than it was had you not. That's just one example.

As for the people who say it isn't hard being religious, well, it isn't. But for those who are teenagers who have to live in a world where it's cool to be "atheist" and trash other people's beliefs, well that just sucks.


And I also hate Glen Beck, just for the record.
Religious means exactly what it says. It's whether or not a member of Congress claimed to be affiliated with a particular religion. I never said they were 'super religious', the point I was getting at was that there is no shortage of God among our nation's leaders. If you want to baselessly claim that they do not respect their religions, well that's your call. I'll just stick to the facts.

[StephenYoung]

Religious means exactly what it says. It's whether or not a member of Congress claimed to be affiliated with a particular religion. I never said they were 'super religious', the point I was getting at was that there is no shortage of God among our nation's leaders. If you want to baselessly claim that they do not respect their religions, well that's your call. I'll just stick to the facts.

What I'm getting at is that you made it seem like it was a problem that they were all affiliated with religions. Now you're looking at facts straight up. f you look beyond numbers, I'm sure you'll find that many people when they say "oh, I'm a _______", that's just how they were brought up, or in which church they were married, etc. Also, I know many politicians use their faith as a point during elections, because despite many religion bashers, the US is still pretty religious.

[J.C.]

To illegally enter the country, have a baby, and have them automatically become a citizen, is nowhere near a "basic right".

Citizenship is absolutely a basic right of the child. You are not the victim of your parents' sins. We believe in equality upon birth, not having to pay the price for something your parents did.

Serious things need to be done about immigration in this country. This bluster about repealing the 14th amendment is misguided and does nothing to solve the problem.

[SunnyInPhilly]

'Anchor babies' (which you're talking about) do not insure this instantaneous citizenship for their parents like your address hints and most conservative talking heads have been screaming. The much more realistic scenario is the American citizen (the child) being separated from his parents due to deportation.

I absolutely never said or implied that it was automatic citizenship for the parents. I never said anything about the parents at all. Many times they will get citizenship easier if their child is a citizen, but my post said nothing about that.

[SunnyInPhilly]

Citizenship is absolutely a basic right of the child. You are not the victim of your parents' sins. We believe in equality upon birth, not having to pay the price for something your parents did.

Serious things need to be done about immigration in this country. This bluster about repealing the 14th amendment is misguided and does nothing to solve the problem.

So being born in another country is now a sin? They're not paying any price, they're just not being rewarded. Nobody is stopping them from applying for legal citizenship just as all legal immigrants do. The problem is not with immigrants, it's with the fact that they are being rewarded for circumventing the system. Why even bother having immigration laws if you can get the same result doing it the easy way?

[Burn That Shit]

http://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/christian.gif

hahaha

[J.C.]

So being born in another country is now a sin?

It wasn't being used in the most literal sense. You aren't made to be held accountable at birth for any wrongdoings of your parents.

They're not paying any price, they're just not being rewarded.

The rights in our constitution aren't a reward, they are inherent. You didn't do anything more to deserve those rights than the child of two illegal immigrants.

Nobody is stopping them from applying for legal citizenship just as all legal immigrants do. The problem is not with immigrants, it's with the fact that they are being rewarded for circumventing the system. Why even bother having immigration laws if you can get the same result doing it the easy way?

You're talking about the parents again. It has nothing to do with the parents.

[Zeran]

To illegally enter the country, have a baby, and have them automatically become a citizen, is nowhere near a "basic right". And your statement was misleading. They are open to repealing PART of the 14th ammendment, specifically the one you addressed. Not the entire thing. People illegally entering the country to give their children automatic citizenship would never have been universally endorsed by conservatives. They would support everyone's right to apply for citizenship and be approved if they met the requirements, not obtain it through a loophole in the system.


I could see why that might make some people curious, but they aren't govt and therefore aren't responsible for accounting for their personal finances to the American public. That really has nothing to do with being radical, though. As far as their views, do you have a link to a reputable source stating these views? I've never heard anything about it.

the basic right is that the 14th amendment to our constitution says that if they are born here, they are american. how can conservatives claim that they believe in the constitution when they appear to only like the parts that suit their agenda? also, there's no evidence whatsoever that illegal immigrants are coming here just to have "anchor babies". conservatives appear to be demonizing the children of immigrants born here, when they should be protecting them and trying to find constructive ways to solve the country's immigration problem.

as for what you mean by a "reputable source", there were links earlier in this thread to the new york times and the new yorker magazine that state what the koch's views are. i'm not sure what other source you could want?

So being born in another country is now a sin? They're not paying any price, they're just not being rewarded. Nobody is stopping them from applying for legal citizenship just as all legal immigrants do. The problem is not with immigrants, it's with the fact that they are being rewarded for circumventing the system. Why even bother having immigration laws if you can get the same result doing it the easy way?

i don't understand. the easy way? are you saying that it's easy for an immigrant to come here illegally and once they're here, they basically have the same quality of life as those who legally applied and came?

[EasySkankin]

So being born in another country is now a sin? They're not paying any price, they're just not being rewarded. Nobody is stopping them from applying for legal citizenship just as all legal immigrants do. The problem is not with immigrants, it's with the fact that they are being rewarded for circumventing the system. Why even bother having immigration laws if you can get the same result doing it the easy way?
You're a misguided tool. Most people try applying for citizenship for more than 10 years and end up being rejected anyway ESPECIALLY latinos.

[DeviateRogue]

You're a misguided tool. Most people try applying for citizenship for more than 10 years and end up being rejected anyway ESPECIALLY latinos.

Evidence? Seems a bit ridiculous your accusing the government for not letting Latinos ESPECIALLY become citizens solely on the fact that they are Latino. In San Antonio, we have a Latino populous that majority of the city. Saying that the government is solely denying aliens into the country because of their race is a bit crude.

Am I saying that there isn't racism? Of course not. But if a immigrant were to apply for citizenship and meet their obligations, no matter what their race, I believe our government would approve of their citizenship. (We as a country aren't that fucking ignorant)

This isn't an attack on you, just wondering why you believe that, your post sounds misinformed.

[EasySkankin]

Evidence? Seems a bit ridiculous your accusing the government for not letting Latinos ESPECIALLY become citizens solely on the fact that they are Latino. In San Antonio, we have a Latino populous that majority of the city. Saying that the government is solely denying aliens into the country because of their race is a bit crude.

Am I saying that there isn't racism? Of course not. But if a immigrant were to apply for citizenship and meet their obligations, no matter what their race, I believe our government would approve of their citizenship. (We as a country aren't that fucking ignorant)

This isn't an attack on you, just wondering why you believe that, your post sounds misinformed.
Sorry if it is too crude for you, let's just alter reality to fit your perfect idea of the immigration system. Many people in this country are pretty fucking ignorant. Just look at the poll numbers for people who believe obama is a muslim, or recent arizona law. Watch mainstream news for more than 10 minutes and tell me if you don't feel dumber than you did before. Everything is either a complete lie or has misleading presentations. I'm not real heavy on conspiracy theories but It's naive to think that there isn't a powerful force pacifying the american masses to ignorance, conformism, consumerism, hate, and racism.

I'm a first generation american and i've been told over and over again the hassle of trying to become a U.S. citizen, and we're all latinos. For example my dad was an exception because he was born with certain privileges and was able to pursue a degree in medicine, and had cash on hand. He was profitable. But even he had to hassle with officials actively denying his efforts and even sabotaging his documents. Other people from different backgrounds who don't have money and don't have a degree don't have this same luck, and a racist who has power over them can be very manipulative.

Sorry if I seem aggressive, I haven't eaten today.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Evidence? Seems a bit ridiculous your accusing the government for not letting Latinos ESPECIALLY become citizens solely on the fact that they are Latino. In San Antonio, we have a Latino populous that majority of the city. Saying that the government is solely denying aliens into the country because of their race is a bit crude.

Am I saying that there isn't racism? Of course not. But if a immigrant were to apply for citizenship and meet their obligations, no matter what their race, I believe our government would approve of their citizenship. (We as a country aren't that fucking ignorant)

This isn't an attack on you, just wondering why you believe that, your post sounds misinformed.

One of my closest friends growing up is Indian. His parents immigrated from India but him and his sister were born here. I think it took around 15-20 years for his parents to become official U.S. citizens.

[DeviateRogue]

Maybe the immigration process is bullshit in general. Eh, I don't watch the news solely for the fact it annoys me, and I can't stand most politicians.

Anyway, I think we can all agree that American society is fucked up.

[Zeran]

Maybe the immigration process is bullshit in general. Eh, I don't watch the news solely for the fact it annoys me, and I can't stand most politicians.

Anyway, I think we can all agree that American society is fucked up.

it's not all fucked up, just certain aspects.

[Scrandon]

What I'm getting at is that you made it seem like it was a problem that they were all affiliated with religions. Now you're looking at facts straight up. f you look beyond numbers, I'm sure you'll find that many people when they say "oh, I'm a _______", that's just how they were brought up, or in which church they were married, etc. Also, I know many politicians use their faith as a point during elections, because despite many religion bashers, the US is still pretty religious.

Nope, I never made anything seem like anything. If you didn't read the whole conversation, then maybe the post was taken out of context.

[anamericangod]

Frightening how easily people buy into what this man says.

[GeeBee]

Have you read it? If there really was such a scientific breakthrough, wouldn't there at least be a respectable article on it? This is a cop-out to a false premise. You can't create matter from nothing. It's like saying 2+2=5, the laws of physics simply don't make it feasible. If you've read material on it, and it was convincing enough to have you saying "matter can be created from nothing", then you should be able to give some kind of explanation for it. Otherwise, you're just as lazy as the religious who believe with no reason to believe.

Jesus people, it's as simple as being genuine.

Yes, I've read it, and no, I'm not going to do a whole bunch of legwork to find an article on quantum physics, dark matter, "god particles", and the CERN project for you and wrap it up with a little bow and present it to you on a comment board, as if you'd read it anyhow.

EDIT:
Here you are, douchenozzle. Get off your high horse. AGAIN...it was as easy as a Google search, but you couldn't be bothered. Not to mention that the news is only 13 years old... What was that about 2+2=5, again?

Out Of Pure Light, Physicists Create Particles Of Matter (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2135957/posts)
ScienceDaily (Sep. 18, 1997) —
A team of 20 physicists from four institutions has literally made something from nothing, creating particles of matter from ordinary light for the first time. The experiment was carried out at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (SLAC) by scientists and students from the University of Rochester, Princeton University, the University of Tennessee, and Stanford. The team reported the work in the Sept. 1 issue of Physical Review Letters. Scientists have long been able to convert matter to energy; the most spectacular example is a nuclear explosion, where a small amount of matter creates tremendous energy. Now physicists have succeeded in doing the opposite: converting energy in the form of light into matter -- in this experiment, electrons and their anti-matter equivalent, positrons.
Converting energy into matter isn't completely new to physicists. When they smash together particles like protons and anti-protons in high-energy accelerator experiments, the initial particles are destroyed and release a fleeting burst of energy. Sometimes this energy burst contains very short-lived packets of light known as "virtual photons" which go on to form new particles. In this experiment scientists observed for the first time the creation of particles from real photons, packets of light that scientists can observe directly in the laboratory.

And just to pre-empt: Light is not matter, it is energy. Photons have zero mass, hence, light is not matter.

[PMFtheman]

Yeah, the one thing we don't need is to get CLOSER to GOD. Shiiit.

Let's move toward reason, logic, and science.

[EasySkankin]

douchenozzle
lol never heard that one.

Interesting article, I humbly concede.

[SunnyInPhilly]

You're a misguided tool. Most people try applying for citizenship for more than 10 years and end up being rejected anyway ESPECIALLY latinos.

Then that's a completely separate problem. If we start allowing people to break laws for convenience sake, it's a very slippery slope. If there is a problem with the process, you do what it takes to fix it, not skip it completely.

[EasySkankin]

Then that's a completely separate problem. If we start allowing people to break laws for convenience sake, it's a very slippery slope. If there is a problem with the process, you do what it takes to fix it, not skip it completely.
You say it likes it's that easy. How do you fix it? How do you even approach it? these things are entirely out of our immediate control.

Also, IMO certain laws are meant to be broken. How else are we supposed to progress?

[SunnyInPhilly]

the basic right is that the 14th amendment to our constitution says that if they are born here, they are american. how can conservatives claim that they believe in the constitution when they appear to only like the parts that suit their agenda? also, there's no evidence whatsoever that illegal immigrants are coming here just to have "anchor babies". conservatives appear to be demonizing the children of immigrants born here, when they should be protecting them and trying to find constructive ways to solve the country's immigration problem.

Exactly. Our constitution. Not Columbia or Venezuala's constitution. Therefore, a residents of those countries is entitled to the rights given by their government. Once they become a legal member of the US, they fall under our constitution because they are legally part of our country. Nobody is demonizing children, and to say so is just ignorant. You're the one who brought up "anchor babies" and made it an issue, despite the fact that you're now saying it's not an issue.

as for what you mean by a "reputable source", there were links earlier in this thread to the new york times and the new yorker magazine that state what the koch's views are. i'm not sure what other source you could want?

And like I said in my response, the only views I saw in there were traditional libertarian views of lower taxes, smaller govt., etc. Nothing about what you claimed.

i don't understand. the easy way? are you saying that it's easy for an immigrant to come here illegally and once they're here, they basically have the same quality of life as those who legally applied and came?

Yes. Seems pretty obvious to me. It's easier to do it your way then to go through the process of applying and waiting to become a legal citizen. If it weren't easier, illegal immigration wouldn't be a problem.

[SunnyInPhilly]

You say it likes it's that easy. How do you fix it? How do you even approach it? these things are entirely out of our immediate control.

Also, IMO certain laws are meant to be broken. How else are we supposed to progress?

So who decides what laws are meant to be broken? You? Me? I'm sure the guy down the street has a completely different idea of what laws are meant to be broken than you. Maybe he thinks statutory rape laws are bullshit. There's no way society could function like that. Like I said, slippery slope.

[TheProsAndCons]

So who decides what laws are meant to be broken? You? Me? I'm sure the guy down the street has a completely different idea of what laws are meant to be broken than you. Maybe he thinks statutory rape laws are bullshit. There's no way society could function like that. Like I said, slippery slope.

:rolleyes:

[EasySkankin]

So who decides what laws are meant to be broken? You? Me? I'm sure the guy down the street has a completely different idea of what laws are meant to be broken than you. Maybe he thinks statutory rape laws are bullshit. There's no way society could function like that. Like I said, slippery slope.
That's why laws are broken all the time, and will always be broken no matter how perfect society is. You just have to try and look at it from a 3rd person perspective and understand why people break certain laws. Statutory rape seems like the crime of someone either sexually deprived, or sexually bored, and many people can try and analyze the causes of that. Some people illegally immigrate to make a better life for themselves, find good work or flee a dangerous region or situation. Others might come in here to smuggle prostitutes, drugs, etc. We just have to experiment in how we enforce our border policy to get the best results.

That being said, the effect of our current system is to punish those who are desperate. If that's how you feel it should be approached, then that's a problem with you IMO because it obviously exacerbates the problem. I think our incoming neighbors should be welcomed, because most of them are more than eager to work. THEY come HERE to be among US, the main thing that sours our relationship is our xenophobia.

[J.C.]

Once they become a legal member of the US, they fall under our constitution because they are legally part of our country.

They are a legal citizen of the US at birth. Apparently you don't care for the constitution and feel you're more entitled to those rights than someone else born here.

[SunnyInPhilly]

:rolleyes:

That must be the "I don't agree but I can't articulate my point" smiley.

[SunnyInPhilly]

That's why laws are broken all the time, and will always be broken no matter how perfect society is. You just have to try and look at it from a 3rd person perspective and understand why people break certain laws. Statutory rape seems like the crime of someone either sexually deprived, or sexually bored, and many people can try and analyze the causes of that. Some people illegally immigrate to make a better life for themselves, find good work or flee a dangerous region or situation. Others might come in here to smuggle prostitutes, drugs, etc. We just have to experiment in how we enforce our border policy to get the best results.

That being said, the effect of our current system is to punish those who are desperate. If that's how you feel it should be approached, then that's a problem with you IMO because it obviously exacerbates the problem. I think our incoming neighbors should be welcomed, because most of them are more than eager to work. THEY come HERE to be among US, the main thing that sours our relationship is our xenophobia.

Laws will inevitably be broken, but what you're suggesting is that we should allow them to be broken and just look the other way. That's completely different and would totally undermine the purpose of laws altogether.

[x togepi x]

So who decides what laws are meant to be broken? You? Me? I'm sure the guy down the street has a completely different idea of what laws are meant to be broken than you. Maybe he thinks statutory rape laws are bullshit. There's no way society could function like that. Like I said, slippery slope.

Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy for a reason.

You can easily draw lines. You ask someone "why do you want to break the law?"

if their justification is something like "well, i want a LCD tv and a playstation 3 but i can't afford them" or "i really want to bang that hot 15 year old girl" then clearly that's fucked up and they're wrong.

but if their justification is based on a rational reason, like injustice/inequality then they have a point.

[TheProsAndCons]

That must be the "I don't agree but I can't articulate my point" smiley.

Nope, it's the "No point even trying to articulate my point because it will be replied to with completely irrelevant points made by a conservative Christian, who (judging by your profile picture) likes guns" smiley.

[SunnyInPhilly]

They are a legal citizen of the US at birth. Apparently you don't care for the constitution and feel you're more entitled to those rights than someone else born here.

Nope. Just interpret it differently as illegal immigration and border control were not relevant back in 1866 and is in no way addressed in the amendment. Circumstances have certainly changed since almost 150 years ago, making some kind of update necessary.

[SunnyInPhilly]

Nope, it's the "No point even trying to articulate my point because it will be replied to with completely irrelevant points made by a conservative Christian, who (judging by your profile picture) likes guns" smiley.

Ah, I like guns. More relevant points. This is clearly worth wasting more time.

[GeeBee]

lol never heard that one.

Interesting article, I humbly concede.

Your humility has compelled me to apologize for my rather harsh tone. I mistook you for one of the anti-science-at-any-cost crowd.

[SunnyInPhilly]

Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy for a reason.

You can easily draw lines. You ask someone "why do you want to break the law?"

if their justification is something like "well, i want a LCD tv and a playstation 3 but i can't afford them" or "i really want to bang that hot 15 year old girl" then clearly that's fucked up and they're wrong.

but if their justification is based on a rational reason, like injustice/inequality then they have a point.

Yes you can. It's called fucking a law.

[x togepi x]

Yes you can. It's called a fucking law.

and yet the great history of civil disobedience shows you that not all laws are meant to be followed, or were you a big fan of laws in nazi germany that targeted the jews? I mean, in your words "it's called a fucking law."

[TheProsAndCons]

Ah, I like guns. More relevant points. This is clearly worth wasting more time.

More people die from guns then they do from statuary rape, guy.

[GeeBee]

Yes you can. It's called a fucking law.

You're asking for someone to ascribe a universal morality, and you're wasting your time.

Laws are ascribed by humans in societies in varying degrees of advancement. No one claimed they're ultra-rational or universally moral. They claimed they're largely accepted and followed for the sake of order.

[SunnyInPhilly]

More people die from guns then they do from statuary rape, guy.

This is all good stuff. Keep it coming.

[TheProsAndCons]

This is all good stuff. Keep it coming.

It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia is a shitty, shitty show.

And holy 'LOL', you're part of the us air force? Nice, way to be a part of the problem.

[J.C.]

Nope. Just interpret it differently as illegal immigration and border control were not relevant back in 1866 and is in no way addressed in the amendment. Circumstances have certainly changed since almost 150 years ago, making some kind of update necessary.

Somebody's not going to get their Strict Constitutionalist merit badge at the next tinfoil hat meeting.

If you want to start loosely interpreting amendments and modernizing them, how about we go and take a whack at the 2nd amendment. AKs and rocket launchers were not relevant at the time of and in no way addressed in the Bill of Rights. Could definitely use some contemporary fine tuning.

[SunnyInPhilly]

and yet the great history of civil disobedience shows you that not all laws are meant to be followed, or were you a big fan of laws in nazi germany that targeted the jews? I mean, in your words "it's called a fucking law."

The difference between what you're talking about and what we've been discussing before you jumped in is change. Breaking a law to challenge it through the court system is a completely different premise than breaking it for the sake of convenience, looking the other way, and never actually bringing about any change.

[SunnyInPhilly]

Somebody's not going to get their Strict Constitutionalist merit badge at the next tinfoil hat meeting.

If we can start loosely interpreting amendments and modernizing them, how about we go and take a whack at the 2nd amendment. AKs and rocket launchers were not relevant at the time of and in no way addressed in the Bill of Rights. Could definitely use some contemporary fine tuning.

That argument goes both ways, buddy.

[J.C.]

That argument goes both ways, buddy.

So you support gun control efforts and favor a loose interpretation of the constitution? Exactly what kind of conservative libertarian are you?

[SunnyInPhilly]

So you support gun control efforts and favor a loose interpretation of the constitution? Exactly what kind of conservative libertarian are you?

Where did I claim I was a libertarian?

[J.C.]

Where did I claim I was a libertarian?

I thought you were in here defending libertarian thought at one point, but perhaps I overread into whatever it was you were saying. The rest of what I said still stands.

[FueledByFrodo]

That argument goes both ways, buddy.

There's a big difference in wanting to change the 2nd Amendment to help keep people safe from gun violence and wanting to change the 14th based on an irrational fear of "anchor babies." Even you must know that.

[SunnyInPhilly]

I thought you were in here defending libertarian thought at one point, but perhaps I overread into whatever it was you were saying. The rest of what I said still stands.

Unlike most people, I don't feel the need to follow the party line on every issue. I don't see anything wrong with putting tighter restrictions on weapons like assault rifles, rocket launchers, etc.

[DeviateRogue]

Unlike most people, I don't feel the need to follow the party line on every issue. I don't see anything wrong with putting tighter restrictions on weapons like assault rifles, rocket launchers, etc.
People own rocket launchers? I want in on that shit. Imagine committing armed robbery with that thing.

[Zeran]

Exactly. Our constitution. Not Columbia or Venezuala's constitution. Therefore, a residents of those countries is entitled to the rights given by their government. Once they become a legal member of the US, they fall under our constitution because they are legally part of our country. Nobody is demonizing children, and to say so is just ignorant. You're the one who brought up "anchor babies" and made it an issue, despite the fact that you're now saying it's not an issue.



And like I said in my response, the only views I saw in there were traditional libertarian views of lower taxes, smaller govt., etc. Nothing about what you claimed.



Yes. Seems pretty obvious to me. It's easier to do it your way then to go through the process of applying and waiting to become a legal citizen. If it weren't easier, illegal immigration wouldn't be a problem.

i did not make the anchor babies topic an issue, i brought it up because it's what conservatives have proposed and it's a totally insane idea with absolutely no proof of it actually happening. some people, especially in certain conservative media outlets, are demonizing children of immigrants and immigrants themselves by portraying them as criminals or who are bringing down american culture or when people like louie gohmert says that arabs are coming over here to drop "terror babies" or whatever. the point is, it's painting immigrants with a brush that makes them out to be less than what they are, i.e. they are humans and have basic rights that need to be respected, even though they are illegally in the country.

i remember you saying that you only skimmed the articles in question. it does in fact say things about their more radical views of abolishing the fbi and so on, although the new yorker article is rather long.

many immigrants who come to the u.s. illegally have to go through dangerous areas in which their life is at risk, and many die from their attempts. once they're in the u.s., they don't have the best of lives, get paid shit money, and are constantly at risk for being deported and separated from their families. the illegal immigrants who are coming to america in such great numbers are coming because they're desperate and want a better life and they want it and need it right now, so they're willing to take the risks that go along with that and don't really have the luxury to sit and wait around to apply through the system, which may or may not accept them.

[x togepi x]

The difference between what you're talking about and what we've been discussing before you jumped in is change. Breaking a law to challenge it through the court system is a completely different premise than breaking it for the sake of convenience, looking the other way, and never actually bringing about any change.

The only person defining said law in such a way is you though. That's the thing. I'm showing how illogical your position is.

You can't say "the law is the law" and "OMG SLIPPERY SLOPE" and then throw around conceptions of convenience all willy nilly.

[benn10]

The only person defining said law in such a way is you though. That's the thing. I'm showing how illogical your position is.

You can't say "the law is the law" and "OMG SLIPPERY SLOPE" and then throw around conceptions of convenience all willy nilly.

You can't be taken seriously when you use the term "willy nilly."

[BornUnderPunches]

You can't be taken seriously when you use the term "willy nilly."
Good relevant response there, dude.

[benn10]

Good relevant response there, dude.

Someone had to say it :D

[vaguestcargo]

His post was full of hyperbole, but he was pretty spot on with '[p]eople tell me it makes you "brave" to be religious in our current society, but the fact is, it doesn't make you brave...', until he ventured into 'it makes you weak' territory. I do agree that people acting like being Christian in America takes balls are completely full of shit, it's like standing up and yelling 'I enjoyed the Matrix but didn't care for the sequels!' No one's going to take offense to your views.

As well, TJ was spot on with, '[b]ringing a country back to some mystical nonentity living up in the sky is about the worst thing I can think of.' He then hopped on the hyperbole train with the 'religion is the root of all problems' thing, but I definitely agree that one thing we don't need U.S. politicians doing is getting even closer to God.

I know I'm bringing back a long-dead post here, but dammit if that's not the most awesome metaphor I've seen. Cheers

[EasySkankin]

Your humility has compelled me to apologize for my rather harsh tone. I mistook you for one of the anti-science-at-any-cost crowd.
'sall good
ah not over my dead body dude chemistry's my major. I love that shit!

Laws will inevitably be broken, but what you're suggesting is that we should allow them to be broken and just look the other way. That's completely different and would totally undermine the purpose of laws altogether.
Not even close, why is this such a hard idea to understand?

[x togepi x]

You can't be taken seriously when you use the term "willy nilly."

i just turned 25. i want an excuse to talk like an old man.

[RyanLowry]

I'm very drunk and this is my opinion on Glenn Beck (and no, I did not preface this with "I'm drunk" to mitigate the following statement): God is not real, and if you believe in an invisible man in the sky and then try to talk to people about flawed logic, you're fucking stupid. That is a fact. Sorry if it's a hard one to swallow. Yes, I am saying that everyone who believes in god is wrong. I believe that to be a fundamental fact, not a matter of opinion. Just like you believe that god's existence is a fact. BUT REGARDLESS, Glenn is a fucking charlatan and nothing more. The fact that people buy what he's selling is just a signal of the end of our civilization. At the rally yesterday the only thing I could think was this: "Functional American democracy has run its course. This is its logical conclusion - the glorification of the Lowest Common Denominator". That's how I rationalized this bullshit. Fuck America in 2010. That is all.

[saysmydoctor]

I think if God exists, he definitely wouldn't have wanted conversation, namely this thread, to be so fucking concerned about him and his existence.

Also,

I believe that to be a fundamental fact, not a matter of opinion.

You may want to rephrase.

[RyanLowry]

I think if God exists, he definitely wouldn't have wanted conversation, namely this thread, to be so fucking concerned about him and his existence.

Also,



You may want to rephrase.

No, i feel no need to rephrase....for one thing you are attempting to engage an intoxicated individual in debate, which is humorous in its own right. also, I do not take your holier-than-thou nonsense very seriously just because you have x-number of posts on a brand new fansite...don't tell me how to phrase an argument. In fact I may very well want to rephrase but i do not have the energy at the moment to read what I wrote initially so instead I will say this: no. Why would I want to rephrase that? God is not fucking real. I AM SORRY THAT THIS UPSETS PEOPLE. There is no evidence to suggest that god exists. So therefore, I do not believe in him/her/it/etc. That would be pretty fucking stupid. Anyway, i don't really care. I'm moving to Holland in the near future so you people can keep having these debates about Glenn Beck and Jesus and communists and Nazis...I don't really care. I'll be smoking quality herb in coffee shops and living a country that is populated by mature adults.

[saysmydoctor]

You know what, you said enough. Thanks, though.

[Scrandon]

Smoking weed in coffee shops is pretty much the pinnacle of maturity. I think he's got you on this one.

[saysmydoctor]

He's from Virginia. Only person I know from there is chokeychicken and that dude is an America-hating terrorist.

/generalforumlurkerbait

Edit: Immediately after the fact, I realized how unfunny this is. I'm going to bed.

I did what Obama did--I ignored the rally. I read one Daily News article. Bleh.

[EasySkankin]

I did what Obama did--I ignored the rally. I read one Daily News article. Bleh.
Yeah I was totally dead set on watching this for some reason the day before but completely forgot about it after. Just goes to show how irrelevant he is

[jawstheme]

Yes, I've read it, and no, I'm not going to do a whole bunch of legwork to find an article on quantum physics, dark matter, "god particles", and the CERN project for you and wrap it up with a little bow and present it to you on a comment board, as if you'd read it anyhow.

EDIT:
Here you are, douchenozzle. Get off your high horse. AGAIN...it was as easy as a Google search, but you couldn't be bothered. Not to mention that the news is only 13 years old... What was that about 2+2=5, again?

Out Of Pure Light, Physicists Create Particles Of Matter (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2135957/posts)
ScienceDaily (Sep. 18, 1997) —
A team of 20 physicists from four institutions has literally made something from nothing, creating particles of matter from ordinary light for the first time. The experiment was carried out at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (SLAC) by scientists and students from the University of Rochester, Princeton University, the University of Tennessee, and Stanford. The team reported the work in the Sept. 1 issue of Physical Review Letters. Scientists have long been able to convert matter to energy; the most spectacular example is a nuclear explosion, where a small amount of matter creates tremendous energy. Now physicists have succeeded in doing the opposite: converting energy in the form of light into matter -- in this experiment, electrons and their anti-matter equivalent, positrons.
Converting energy into matter isn't completely new to physicists. When they smash together particles like protons and anti-protons in high-energy accelerator experiments, the initial particles are destroyed and release a fleeting burst of energy. Sometimes this energy burst contains very short-lived packets of light known as "virtual photons" which go on to form new particles. In this experiment scientists observed for the first time the creation of particles from real photons, packets of light that scientists can observe directly in the laboratory.

And just to pre-empt: Light is not matter, it is energy. Photons have zero mass, hence, light is not matter.

This is pretty awesome.

[GeeBee]

This is pretty awesome.
No you are.

Long time, no see.

[RyanLowry]

Sorry about that. I was quite drunk. I am an Atheist, and Glenn Beck is a moron, but I should not have conveyed it that way.

[GeeBee]

Sorry about that. I was quite drunk. I am an Atheist, and Glenn Beck is a mormon, but I should not have conveyed it that way.
;-) fixed.

[thursday727]

Alex Jones is making The Glenn Beck Deception. About the controlled right/neocons hijacking the tea party.
should be awesome.