Nathan Lint
11/28/06, 03:32 PM
Nathan: First of all, state your names and what you guys do in the band.
Thomas: My name is Thomas. I play guitar and sing.
Big T: My name is Thomas; I play guitar and stuff for Forgive Durden.
Nathan: You guys came from Seattle. That's a town, and even a state, that's been at the peak of the scene for like the last twenty years. How did the scene around you affect the way you guys were playing and writing music growing up?
Thomas: The bands there are so much bigger in Seattle then they are in other places, like people there just love them.
Big T: You could potentially be a local band and do all right.
Thomas: And to be able to come up to any size where you are to get noticed. You have to be doing something different in Seattle, because there is so much different music that was thriving and you couldn't just do the usual sort of thing.
Big T: It was really important because there were these bands that were role models, like Gatsbys American Dream, and bands like The Blood Brothers and bands even like Modest Mouse and Death Cab from the areas around. Then there was the smaller group of bands that were basically doing the exact same thing, but not as good. So we knew that when we were writing our record that it couldn't just be like that. We didn't want to be under the other umbrellas of other certain types of music already happening in Seattle, we wanted to have our own umbrella.
Nathan: How did you guys originally come up with the band name, Forgive Durden?
Thomas: I came up with it. We're all big Chuck Palahniuk fans (the author of Fight Club). I just thought that book had a lot of really cool metaphors about being able to follow your heart. Follow your gut instinct as opposed to doing what you're told to do. So I felt that we just wanted to reference that ideology.
Big T: Especially since like this record was like a really big social commentary. That's what is in all of his books too.
Nathan: You guys make a lot of references to cult films, poems, and literature. What type of impact has that media had on your writing?
Thomas: It's had a big impact. For example, books like Slaughtermatic that are not really that well known. That's kind of a cult book.
Big T: Steve Aylett, yeah.
Thomas: That book really inspired a lot of the ideas of the record.
Big T: A lot of the whole general bleakness of the feeling of certain problems are really projected in that book, as well. Personally, I'm really into different kinds of art, whether it is visual, or oral, or any other kind. I just feel like it's the same thing in different facets. Each person has their one way to get out of something, whatever is in their head or body. Whether it is a book or a painting, I feel like we should all take everything into account. Just because we're musicians doesn't mean that we don't read books.
Thomas: And most of the stuff that inspired stuff on the record was movies and books and poems and stuff that kind of had similar themes to what we were trying to do. That's why we referenced a lot of that stuff.
Big T: That's why we love the record, and why we loved making it, and hoped people loved listening to it because it was sprouted out of ideas that we love and things that we were really into at the time. The books that we were reading were really blowing our mind, so when we were writing; we were letting that inspire us to write songs that really blew out mind as well. So we were really excited about what was coming out.
Nathan: Forgive Durden was apart of our Absolute Unsigned promotion last year. Did being apart of that affect your success?
Thomas: Yeah, AP.net has definitely helped us out a lot.
Big T: In the beginning, Frank helped us out a lot.
Thomas: I first contacted Scott Weber. I sent him an e-mail, and we had lunch together and just talked and kind of became friends a little bit. He started helping us out. Then, Frank started helping us out a lot, and also Jared. Everyone there just seems to really like us and we really appreciate everything they did because it really got our name out there to a lot of people.
Nathan: How's your relationship with everyone over at Fueled By Ramen?
Big T: Amazing.
Thomas: It's great.
Big T: It's like way different then I thought it was going to be. I thought dealing with a label was going to be very much like business phone calls and memos posted…I don't really know (Thomas laughs), but it's really like more of a friendship. Like when we're in Florida, every person at the label comes and hangs out with us. Then afterwards, we'll hang out with them until like five in the morning. It's a really good relationship.
Thomas: And I'll talk on the phone with our A+R guy Johnny.
Big T: Yeah, you keep in touch with him.
Thomas: I'll talk to him everyday about just random stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the label.
Big T: And they’re always so stoked about whatever crazy ideas we have.
Nathan: Well, going along with that too, I've heard that all the bands over there are really close knit. For example, Shaant praised you guys and your cd in our interview with CIWWAF. Is there any other bands or people that you guys are really close friends with?
Thomas: We've toured with Panic!, and we're really good friends with those guys.
Big T: They're the greatest.
Thomas: The Hush Sound we've met a few times and we've gotten along with them really well, and Cute we've toured with them. We've obviously gotten along with them really well, Shaants an awesome dude. We've met Gym Class.
Big T: Yeah, those guys are a lot of fun. We met them at Warped Tour.
Thomas: And This Providence we've known from Seattle for a long time. But yeah, all the bands we've met so far, we've gotten along with great.
Nathan: What are your guys' plans for 2007? Would there be a chance for a headlining tour?
Thomas: We're hoping to. It's going to be a longer then average album cycle. We're hoping to do the majority of Warped Tour, and probably next fall we'll be doing a headlining tour. Then we'll probably go back into the studio.
Big T: But we also plan to have lots of surprises before then.
Thomas: Yeah, but we probably won't go back into the studio until January (2008).
Nathan: You guys are on tour with Say Anything right now.
Big T: It's amazing. I still can't even believe it yet.
Nathan: I heard you guys have always been into them since they first came out. So how's that experience been for you guys so far?
Big T: Really great. It's just such a good feeling, because when you really believe in everyone that's on a bill and you're actually touring and working really hard and playing to a lot of kids every night because these shows have been sold out.
Thomas: Yeah.
Big T: You really feel like you're a part of something. That's not every tour, either. In reality, every tour can't make you feel like you're a part of a revolution. But when every band is doing something really different, then you can feel like that. It's really an insane feeling.
Thomas: And Say Anything in particular, for you (Big T), it was the first thing that got you back into
modern music.
Big T: I hadn't listened to modern rock at all. I've been just playing jazz and listening to nothing recorded after 1975. Then I heard this record. I'm sure people can hear parallels in our record, too, because it was my first attempt at writing rock guitar parts, and that was all I was really listening to.
Thomas: For me too, I've definitely been in the scene a lot more then he has before we started the band and listening to all of the music in the scene. Say Anything's record really is one that is a huge breath of fresh air for me. Everything has been really stale and I had really been on the movement into more indie stuff, and getting out the pop rock kind of genre, but that record was one that made me realize that you can still make a good rock record that's poppy.
Big T: And you can definitely hear within it that it wasn't just an accident. You know it's going to happen more, and that's why I'm so into it because I know there will be more and more breaths of fresh air from them in the future. So that's something to look forward to when the whole scene is going wherever it's going (Thomas laughs).
Nathan: No Comment (Thomas laughs again). Supposedly, you guys had a goal with the amount of shows you guys were going to play.
Big T: Oh yeah.
Thomas: We did.
Nathan: Did you guys reach that goal?
Big T: Well we haven't had the chance yet because it was like 300.
Thomas: Which is like 65 days off, which is a really insane goal. But being a small band, you have to take the tours that you can get. You don't get to pick and choose as much. I think we are already over the 65 days, maybe.
Big T: Have we?
Thomas: We're close but we're not going to make the goal. We're still trying to tour as much as we possibly can and really just work really hard to get people to notice us. That was the point of the goal.
Nathan: Have you guy's been writing any new songs on the road?
Thomas: We started to, kind of. It's been slow. I just got a new laptop, and I just got protools and a lot of stuff on it. We're just learning how to use that for basic recordings.
Big T: I'm always writing a lot but it's just like little things here and there. I'm really obsessed with chord progressions and harmonic movements. That's something I'm always thinking about. It's a constant process.
Thomas: Yeah, I mean, we always have ideas kind of brewing. To actually have a full song come out, it hasn't happened yet. It's close.
Big T: It's always a good feeling whenever we're working together. It's always like a really organic thing, and it always feels really good. It'll come out quick once it starts to flow.
Nathan: I've heard other people tell the basic story of Wonderland. Let's hear it from you guys.
Thomas: It's a story based in a city called Wonderland. There are five characters that the cd follows. There's the deity, god creature character that created Wonderland, and created the whole city. The first (Ants) and last song (Cue The Sun) are both from his point of view. He's looking down and seeing how people are using his gift that he gave them. He's getting a little agitated with how they’re using it. Then there is a girl who's been completely immersed in the materialism of Wonderland her whole life. She thought it was what was going to make her happy, but she really just wants to get out and find something that's real. She wants to fall in love, so she is struggling with that. Then there is another young man who is kind of just arriving to Wonderland and he's a businessman type. He's just getting hired at some huge firm. He's really excited about making money, and he thinks that's what's going to make him happy. Then there is that same character, but forty years later. Who is an older man who's just about to retire and he's done everything he's supposed to do to just make as much money as possible and be happy, but he realizes that it hasn't made him happy. So he's struggling with the idea of "What have I been doing my whole life? What a huge waste." The last character is the narrator, who represents the whole band, or just me. He is somebody who, at first, thinks he is better then everybody from Wonderland because he's out following his dreams and following his heart. But by the end of the cd, he realizes that he is no different from them. He's still just as trapped as they are in this city. That's the basic story.
Nathan: Wow. So, in my opinion, I think your guys' use of similes and metaphors is jaw dropping. What is the writing process for you guys? Does the music come first? Or does the lyrics?
Thomas: Well, on this record, it was a little different, because after a few songs, we decided we were going to do a concept record. So one thing we decided was that if we did a concept record, we really wanted the music to match the lyrics in a sense that they should be the same style and exuding a similar presence. So I wrote the whole story for Wonderland, and we chopped it up into how many songs it would be, and figured out what would get accomplished plot wise in each song and what that song should sound like to match what is happening. Someone is trying to escape and it's this glorious, epic thing. If they're leaving Wonderland, then that's the way the music should sound. If it's a really sad moment for someone, then that's how the music should sound. So once we got that, I would start coming up with little, tiny lyrical ideas, or at least just figure out what was supposed to happen, and then Thomas (Big T) would come up with some different guitar parts that he thought would be a good fit. Then, I would take those and try to get some melodies and lyrics over them, and we would just keep adding to it once we got there.
Big T: It was a really gradual process. For example, the one tune, For A Dreamer, Night's The Only Time Of Day, we started writing that in the middle, but we didn't actually have it nailed down finished until weeks into recording, even though we'd had it written for months and months. We're really specific about what we want things to sound like and we really reconstructed songs over and over again whereas you hear a lot of bands write like fifty songs, and then pick twelve. We kind of did that, but it was more we wrote twelve songs, and revised them fifty times, until it was almost like we had smashed those songs into the twelve, but not smashed in uncomfortably. We did it in a way that it was just the gradual process of each song growing into what we wanted it to be.
Thomas: The relationship is really cool. Once he comes up with something, I'll take it and I'll have to change it a little bit to fit with the lyrics and melodies, and maybe something doesn't feel right, so I'll say that "this should be a little bit different." Or "we need something more here", and it's very easy when we can bounce stuff back off of each other until it's finally where we need it.
Big T: And we have a similar music language with each other where we kind of understand what each other are saying. If something needs to be changed, it's really easy to get that across. I know in other musical relationships I've been in, sometimes it's hard to communicate in that respect, but it hasn't been in this one so far.
Nathan: Do you guys plan on re-releasing the EP ever?
Both: No.
Thomas: I don't even have a copy myself; I looked for one the other day.
Big T: I found one that doesn't play. It was behind my girlfriend's dresser. She doesn't listen to it anymore either.
Thomas: Yeah, he wasn't in the band then. I'm proud of it and everything, it reflects where I was at that time, but even if Wonderland was one of the biggest records ever, when we move on and write a new record we're probably not going to want to come back and play Wonderland songs. We're going to want to play what we're feeling at that time, because Wonderland was representative of where we were when we wrote the record. We're still inspired to play those songs now, but a year from now we're probably going to want to do something new.
Big T: Absolutely.
Nathan: Now onto some of the user submitted questions. Somebody asked if you guys still planned on making a musical, the Thomas and Thomas musical.
Thomas: Who said that? (Laughs)
Nathan: I don't know; that's what someone said.
Thomas: We have some crazy ideas that we're working on right now. (Laughs) We are trying to do kind of a crazy musical. Yeah. I'm not going to say anymore. It's not going to be Forgive Durden, though.
Nathan: This is another one of the questions that wasn't mine. This was is towards you (Big T). There was a rumor that you were going to join Hilary Duff's band.
Thomas: Somebody just asked that. I denied it. I didn't even know it.
Big T: It's kind of a weird thing. The whole deal is that I was going to school for studio jazz guitar in LA at USC and the whole point of that program is to end up as a studio player. I was doing that a lot while I was there, playing jazz gigs and doing a lot of studio stuff. I was playing with some really hot radio pop bands for extra money. My old roommate, he was and still is playing as the guitar player for Tyler Hilton. I don't know if you know who that is.
Nathan: No.
Big T: He was the guy who played Elvis in the Johnny Cash movie. He's been on One Tree Hill a million times. He's a pop guy. He's a really good songwriter, actually. My roommate had known him for a while and he hooked me up with this agency that almost puts together bands for pop groups that has the right look for so and so. There was this one audition where they were basically looking for a band for Hilary Duff and a band for Lindsey Lohan and a couple other female pop fronted bands. I went and did the audition and got the call back. They were saying that they were thinking about putting me in the Hilary Duff band, or this other band. I started playing with the other band, first, because they were already on the road, and that was just a nightmare. I'm not even going to say the name of the band because I like the people, but they were a terrible band (Thomas laughs). There were talks that I was to maybe go out with Hilary Duff, but before that got really far, I moved out of California. I didn't answer any phone calls from 213 and 313 area codes.
Thomas: 313's here (Detroit).
Big T: Is it?
Nathan: Yeah.
Big T: 213 and 320?
Thomas: I don't know.
Big T: Whatever. I don't answer phone calls from 313, either. (Laughs)
Nathan: This question was towards you (Thomas), and it was another user-submitted question. Someone said that you have a PhD from the University of Washington.
Big T: Oh my God! That's awesome! Yeah he does! Totally.
Thomas: (laughs) Jessie (the bassist) and I, we both hit Udub for a year and a quarter. So our sophomore year after the fall quarter, we bounced out of that one.
Nathan: Is there any up and coming bands you think the world should know about?
Thomas: Up and coming bands. Kay Kay and his Weathered Underground.
Nathan: We just did an exclusive with them.
Thomas: Yeah, they’re awesome. What's Lizzie Huffmans band?
Big T: Man In The Blue Van.
Thomas: Man In The Blue Van? They’re really good. Man Without Wax is a new band to check out. Those three are bands to check out.
Big T: Kay Kay and his Weathered Underground is the best, though.
Nathan: The end of the year is approaching, are there any cds that have come out this year that you think were good?
Big T: You're in luck, my man, because he just did his top 10!
Thomas: I just did my list and I sent it to you guys already. I think I sent it to our publicist, so she'll probably send it to you. But anyways, it was hard for me this year.
Big T: I didn't even want to do one.
Thomas: The last two years it's been ones that have just been so obvious. This year, you had to think about it a little more. The one I chose number one was Cursive – Happy Hollow, which I still don't think is a complete masterpiece but it's themes and lyrics and songs are just the ones that clicked with me with most.
Big T: It was a really fucking good record.
Thomas: That was one of the ones where I was just like "Gosh, this is amazing!" but when I listened to the whole record, by the end, I'm really ready to turn it off. Though it is still definitely my favorite record of the year. We also really got into this guy named Thicke. His record actually came out in 2003, but we just became obsessed with it this year. It's kind of like what everyone wished Justin Timberlake would do, be a little less hip-hop, and a little more R+B.
Big T: The Justin Timberlake cd was really good too.
Thomas: You know that show Growing Pains? The dad, his name is Alan Thicke. His son is this guy, Robin Thicke. He's this amazing R+B singer.
Big T: He's been writing songs for Christina Aguilera, Michael Jackson, and Usher for years. He's been writing since he was like fifteen or something retarded like that.
Thomas: The new Shins record is amazing, too. That'd be my number one, but it comes out next year.
Big T: I catch myself wanting to say it was Regina Spektor, but I have such a hard time doing it because it's so top-heavy, but it's great. I listen to it more then any other rock record that came out this year.
Nathan: Is there anything else you'd like to tell everyone who'd be viewing the site?
Big T: Buy our record?
Thomas: (laughs) Buy our record…and come hang out at shows.
Big T: Keep Music Evil.
Thomas: And…don't stand in line, ask questions. Word.
Big T: What does that mean?
Thomas: I don't know.
Big T: Good advice, dude.
Thomas: Thanks.
Thomas: My name is Thomas. I play guitar and sing.
Big T: My name is Thomas; I play guitar and stuff for Forgive Durden.
Nathan: You guys came from Seattle. That's a town, and even a state, that's been at the peak of the scene for like the last twenty years. How did the scene around you affect the way you guys were playing and writing music growing up?
Thomas: The bands there are so much bigger in Seattle then they are in other places, like people there just love them.
Big T: You could potentially be a local band and do all right.
Thomas: And to be able to come up to any size where you are to get noticed. You have to be doing something different in Seattle, because there is so much different music that was thriving and you couldn't just do the usual sort of thing.
Big T: It was really important because there were these bands that were role models, like Gatsbys American Dream, and bands like The Blood Brothers and bands even like Modest Mouse and Death Cab from the areas around. Then there was the smaller group of bands that were basically doing the exact same thing, but not as good. So we knew that when we were writing our record that it couldn't just be like that. We didn't want to be under the other umbrellas of other certain types of music already happening in Seattle, we wanted to have our own umbrella.
Nathan: How did you guys originally come up with the band name, Forgive Durden?
Thomas: I came up with it. We're all big Chuck Palahniuk fans (the author of Fight Club). I just thought that book had a lot of really cool metaphors about being able to follow your heart. Follow your gut instinct as opposed to doing what you're told to do. So I felt that we just wanted to reference that ideology.
Big T: Especially since like this record was like a really big social commentary. That's what is in all of his books too.
Nathan: You guys make a lot of references to cult films, poems, and literature. What type of impact has that media had on your writing?
Thomas: It's had a big impact. For example, books like Slaughtermatic that are not really that well known. That's kind of a cult book.
Big T: Steve Aylett, yeah.
Thomas: That book really inspired a lot of the ideas of the record.
Big T: A lot of the whole general bleakness of the feeling of certain problems are really projected in that book, as well. Personally, I'm really into different kinds of art, whether it is visual, or oral, or any other kind. I just feel like it's the same thing in different facets. Each person has their one way to get out of something, whatever is in their head or body. Whether it is a book or a painting, I feel like we should all take everything into account. Just because we're musicians doesn't mean that we don't read books.
Thomas: And most of the stuff that inspired stuff on the record was movies and books and poems and stuff that kind of had similar themes to what we were trying to do. That's why we referenced a lot of that stuff.
Big T: That's why we love the record, and why we loved making it, and hoped people loved listening to it because it was sprouted out of ideas that we love and things that we were really into at the time. The books that we were reading were really blowing our mind, so when we were writing; we were letting that inspire us to write songs that really blew out mind as well. So we were really excited about what was coming out.
Nathan: Forgive Durden was apart of our Absolute Unsigned promotion last year. Did being apart of that affect your success?
Thomas: Yeah, AP.net has definitely helped us out a lot.
Big T: In the beginning, Frank helped us out a lot.
Thomas: I first contacted Scott Weber. I sent him an e-mail, and we had lunch together and just talked and kind of became friends a little bit. He started helping us out. Then, Frank started helping us out a lot, and also Jared. Everyone there just seems to really like us and we really appreciate everything they did because it really got our name out there to a lot of people.
Nathan: How's your relationship with everyone over at Fueled By Ramen?
Big T: Amazing.
Thomas: It's great.
Big T: It's like way different then I thought it was going to be. I thought dealing with a label was going to be very much like business phone calls and memos posted…I don't really know (Thomas laughs), but it's really like more of a friendship. Like when we're in Florida, every person at the label comes and hangs out with us. Then afterwards, we'll hang out with them until like five in the morning. It's a really good relationship.
Thomas: And I'll talk on the phone with our A+R guy Johnny.
Big T: Yeah, you keep in touch with him.
Thomas: I'll talk to him everyday about just random stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the label.
Big T: And they’re always so stoked about whatever crazy ideas we have.
Nathan: Well, going along with that too, I've heard that all the bands over there are really close knit. For example, Shaant praised you guys and your cd in our interview with CIWWAF. Is there any other bands or people that you guys are really close friends with?
Thomas: We've toured with Panic!, and we're really good friends with those guys.
Big T: They're the greatest.
Thomas: The Hush Sound we've met a few times and we've gotten along with them really well, and Cute we've toured with them. We've obviously gotten along with them really well, Shaants an awesome dude. We've met Gym Class.
Big T: Yeah, those guys are a lot of fun. We met them at Warped Tour.
Thomas: And This Providence we've known from Seattle for a long time. But yeah, all the bands we've met so far, we've gotten along with great.
Nathan: What are your guys' plans for 2007? Would there be a chance for a headlining tour?
Thomas: We're hoping to. It's going to be a longer then average album cycle. We're hoping to do the majority of Warped Tour, and probably next fall we'll be doing a headlining tour. Then we'll probably go back into the studio.
Big T: But we also plan to have lots of surprises before then.
Thomas: Yeah, but we probably won't go back into the studio until January (2008).
Nathan: You guys are on tour with Say Anything right now.
Big T: It's amazing. I still can't even believe it yet.
Nathan: I heard you guys have always been into them since they first came out. So how's that experience been for you guys so far?
Big T: Really great. It's just such a good feeling, because when you really believe in everyone that's on a bill and you're actually touring and working really hard and playing to a lot of kids every night because these shows have been sold out.
Thomas: Yeah.
Big T: You really feel like you're a part of something. That's not every tour, either. In reality, every tour can't make you feel like you're a part of a revolution. But when every band is doing something really different, then you can feel like that. It's really an insane feeling.
Thomas: And Say Anything in particular, for you (Big T), it was the first thing that got you back into
modern music.
Big T: I hadn't listened to modern rock at all. I've been just playing jazz and listening to nothing recorded after 1975. Then I heard this record. I'm sure people can hear parallels in our record, too, because it was my first attempt at writing rock guitar parts, and that was all I was really listening to.
Thomas: For me too, I've definitely been in the scene a lot more then he has before we started the band and listening to all of the music in the scene. Say Anything's record really is one that is a huge breath of fresh air for me. Everything has been really stale and I had really been on the movement into more indie stuff, and getting out the pop rock kind of genre, but that record was one that made me realize that you can still make a good rock record that's poppy.
Big T: And you can definitely hear within it that it wasn't just an accident. You know it's going to happen more, and that's why I'm so into it because I know there will be more and more breaths of fresh air from them in the future. So that's something to look forward to when the whole scene is going wherever it's going (Thomas laughs).
Nathan: No Comment (Thomas laughs again). Supposedly, you guys had a goal with the amount of shows you guys were going to play.
Big T: Oh yeah.
Thomas: We did.
Nathan: Did you guys reach that goal?
Big T: Well we haven't had the chance yet because it was like 300.
Thomas: Which is like 65 days off, which is a really insane goal. But being a small band, you have to take the tours that you can get. You don't get to pick and choose as much. I think we are already over the 65 days, maybe.
Big T: Have we?
Thomas: We're close but we're not going to make the goal. We're still trying to tour as much as we possibly can and really just work really hard to get people to notice us. That was the point of the goal.
Nathan: Have you guy's been writing any new songs on the road?
Thomas: We started to, kind of. It's been slow. I just got a new laptop, and I just got protools and a lot of stuff on it. We're just learning how to use that for basic recordings.
Big T: I'm always writing a lot but it's just like little things here and there. I'm really obsessed with chord progressions and harmonic movements. That's something I'm always thinking about. It's a constant process.
Thomas: Yeah, I mean, we always have ideas kind of brewing. To actually have a full song come out, it hasn't happened yet. It's close.
Big T: It's always a good feeling whenever we're working together. It's always like a really organic thing, and it always feels really good. It'll come out quick once it starts to flow.
Nathan: I've heard other people tell the basic story of Wonderland. Let's hear it from you guys.
Thomas: It's a story based in a city called Wonderland. There are five characters that the cd follows. There's the deity, god creature character that created Wonderland, and created the whole city. The first (Ants) and last song (Cue The Sun) are both from his point of view. He's looking down and seeing how people are using his gift that he gave them. He's getting a little agitated with how they’re using it. Then there is a girl who's been completely immersed in the materialism of Wonderland her whole life. She thought it was what was going to make her happy, but she really just wants to get out and find something that's real. She wants to fall in love, so she is struggling with that. Then there is another young man who is kind of just arriving to Wonderland and he's a businessman type. He's just getting hired at some huge firm. He's really excited about making money, and he thinks that's what's going to make him happy. Then there is that same character, but forty years later. Who is an older man who's just about to retire and he's done everything he's supposed to do to just make as much money as possible and be happy, but he realizes that it hasn't made him happy. So he's struggling with the idea of "What have I been doing my whole life? What a huge waste." The last character is the narrator, who represents the whole band, or just me. He is somebody who, at first, thinks he is better then everybody from Wonderland because he's out following his dreams and following his heart. But by the end of the cd, he realizes that he is no different from them. He's still just as trapped as they are in this city. That's the basic story.
Nathan: Wow. So, in my opinion, I think your guys' use of similes and metaphors is jaw dropping. What is the writing process for you guys? Does the music come first? Or does the lyrics?
Thomas: Well, on this record, it was a little different, because after a few songs, we decided we were going to do a concept record. So one thing we decided was that if we did a concept record, we really wanted the music to match the lyrics in a sense that they should be the same style and exuding a similar presence. So I wrote the whole story for Wonderland, and we chopped it up into how many songs it would be, and figured out what would get accomplished plot wise in each song and what that song should sound like to match what is happening. Someone is trying to escape and it's this glorious, epic thing. If they're leaving Wonderland, then that's the way the music should sound. If it's a really sad moment for someone, then that's how the music should sound. So once we got that, I would start coming up with little, tiny lyrical ideas, or at least just figure out what was supposed to happen, and then Thomas (Big T) would come up with some different guitar parts that he thought would be a good fit. Then, I would take those and try to get some melodies and lyrics over them, and we would just keep adding to it once we got there.
Big T: It was a really gradual process. For example, the one tune, For A Dreamer, Night's The Only Time Of Day, we started writing that in the middle, but we didn't actually have it nailed down finished until weeks into recording, even though we'd had it written for months and months. We're really specific about what we want things to sound like and we really reconstructed songs over and over again whereas you hear a lot of bands write like fifty songs, and then pick twelve. We kind of did that, but it was more we wrote twelve songs, and revised them fifty times, until it was almost like we had smashed those songs into the twelve, but not smashed in uncomfortably. We did it in a way that it was just the gradual process of each song growing into what we wanted it to be.
Thomas: The relationship is really cool. Once he comes up with something, I'll take it and I'll have to change it a little bit to fit with the lyrics and melodies, and maybe something doesn't feel right, so I'll say that "this should be a little bit different." Or "we need something more here", and it's very easy when we can bounce stuff back off of each other until it's finally where we need it.
Big T: And we have a similar music language with each other where we kind of understand what each other are saying. If something needs to be changed, it's really easy to get that across. I know in other musical relationships I've been in, sometimes it's hard to communicate in that respect, but it hasn't been in this one so far.
Nathan: Do you guys plan on re-releasing the EP ever?
Both: No.
Thomas: I don't even have a copy myself; I looked for one the other day.
Big T: I found one that doesn't play. It was behind my girlfriend's dresser. She doesn't listen to it anymore either.
Thomas: Yeah, he wasn't in the band then. I'm proud of it and everything, it reflects where I was at that time, but even if Wonderland was one of the biggest records ever, when we move on and write a new record we're probably not going to want to come back and play Wonderland songs. We're going to want to play what we're feeling at that time, because Wonderland was representative of where we were when we wrote the record. We're still inspired to play those songs now, but a year from now we're probably going to want to do something new.
Big T: Absolutely.
Nathan: Now onto some of the user submitted questions. Somebody asked if you guys still planned on making a musical, the Thomas and Thomas musical.
Thomas: Who said that? (Laughs)
Nathan: I don't know; that's what someone said.
Thomas: We have some crazy ideas that we're working on right now. (Laughs) We are trying to do kind of a crazy musical. Yeah. I'm not going to say anymore. It's not going to be Forgive Durden, though.
Nathan: This is another one of the questions that wasn't mine. This was is towards you (Big T). There was a rumor that you were going to join Hilary Duff's band.
Thomas: Somebody just asked that. I denied it. I didn't even know it.
Big T: It's kind of a weird thing. The whole deal is that I was going to school for studio jazz guitar in LA at USC and the whole point of that program is to end up as a studio player. I was doing that a lot while I was there, playing jazz gigs and doing a lot of studio stuff. I was playing with some really hot radio pop bands for extra money. My old roommate, he was and still is playing as the guitar player for Tyler Hilton. I don't know if you know who that is.
Nathan: No.
Big T: He was the guy who played Elvis in the Johnny Cash movie. He's been on One Tree Hill a million times. He's a pop guy. He's a really good songwriter, actually. My roommate had known him for a while and he hooked me up with this agency that almost puts together bands for pop groups that has the right look for so and so. There was this one audition where they were basically looking for a band for Hilary Duff and a band for Lindsey Lohan and a couple other female pop fronted bands. I went and did the audition and got the call back. They were saying that they were thinking about putting me in the Hilary Duff band, or this other band. I started playing with the other band, first, because they were already on the road, and that was just a nightmare. I'm not even going to say the name of the band because I like the people, but they were a terrible band (Thomas laughs). There were talks that I was to maybe go out with Hilary Duff, but before that got really far, I moved out of California. I didn't answer any phone calls from 213 and 313 area codes.
Thomas: 313's here (Detroit).
Big T: Is it?
Nathan: Yeah.
Big T: 213 and 320?
Thomas: I don't know.
Big T: Whatever. I don't answer phone calls from 313, either. (Laughs)
Nathan: This question was towards you (Thomas), and it was another user-submitted question. Someone said that you have a PhD from the University of Washington.
Big T: Oh my God! That's awesome! Yeah he does! Totally.
Thomas: (laughs) Jessie (the bassist) and I, we both hit Udub for a year and a quarter. So our sophomore year after the fall quarter, we bounced out of that one.
Nathan: Is there any up and coming bands you think the world should know about?
Thomas: Up and coming bands. Kay Kay and his Weathered Underground.
Nathan: We just did an exclusive with them.
Thomas: Yeah, they’re awesome. What's Lizzie Huffmans band?
Big T: Man In The Blue Van.
Thomas: Man In The Blue Van? They’re really good. Man Without Wax is a new band to check out. Those three are bands to check out.
Big T: Kay Kay and his Weathered Underground is the best, though.
Nathan: The end of the year is approaching, are there any cds that have come out this year that you think were good?
Big T: You're in luck, my man, because he just did his top 10!
Thomas: I just did my list and I sent it to you guys already. I think I sent it to our publicist, so she'll probably send it to you. But anyways, it was hard for me this year.
Big T: I didn't even want to do one.
Thomas: The last two years it's been ones that have just been so obvious. This year, you had to think about it a little more. The one I chose number one was Cursive – Happy Hollow, which I still don't think is a complete masterpiece but it's themes and lyrics and songs are just the ones that clicked with me with most.
Big T: It was a really fucking good record.
Thomas: That was one of the ones where I was just like "Gosh, this is amazing!" but when I listened to the whole record, by the end, I'm really ready to turn it off. Though it is still definitely my favorite record of the year. We also really got into this guy named Thicke. His record actually came out in 2003, but we just became obsessed with it this year. It's kind of like what everyone wished Justin Timberlake would do, be a little less hip-hop, and a little more R+B.
Big T: The Justin Timberlake cd was really good too.
Thomas: You know that show Growing Pains? The dad, his name is Alan Thicke. His son is this guy, Robin Thicke. He's this amazing R+B singer.
Big T: He's been writing songs for Christina Aguilera, Michael Jackson, and Usher for years. He's been writing since he was like fifteen or something retarded like that.
Thomas: The new Shins record is amazing, too. That'd be my number one, but it comes out next year.
Big T: I catch myself wanting to say it was Regina Spektor, but I have such a hard time doing it because it's so top-heavy, but it's great. I listen to it more then any other rock record that came out this year.
Nathan: Is there anything else you'd like to tell everyone who'd be viewing the site?
Big T: Buy our record?
Thomas: (laughs) Buy our record…and come hang out at shows.
Big T: Keep Music Evil.
Thomas: And…don't stand in line, ask questions. Word.
Big T: What does that mean?
Thomas: I don't know.
Big T: Good advice, dude.
Thomas: Thanks.