Canadian Prostitution Laws Declared Unconstitutional [Archive]

jessicalynn-xx

09/30/10, 12:45 AM

Prostitution has always been legal in Canada, this ruling just removes other laws surrounding it. It will now be legal for prostitutes to operate out of brothels and to communicate in public for the purposes of prostitution, both of which were previously illegal. The federal government is planning to appeal this ruling but I don't really see what kind of case they'll be able to make. It only makes sense for those things to be legal if prostitution is legal. They'll most likely lose the appeal and then try to make prostitution itself illegal. Hopefully by then they will see all the positives of prostitution being legal and stop caring... Or Harper will have been voted out of office. :-)

CheckeredFloors

09/30/10, 02:25 AM

Interesting career prospect for young Canadian teenagers growing up.

I wouldn't want it legalized simply because I wouldn't want my sister/daughter becoming a whore.

DanTGD

09/30/10, 02:31 AM

if it was legalised, I'd quite like to see the commericals and stuff for it.

zion the lion

09/30/10, 02:49 AM

It needs to be legal, its one thing that I really care about. It needs to happen, and I'd love to see the safety of the prostitutes come first.

J.C.

09/30/10, 02:59 AM

xxvdvoQgAy8

mimieux

09/30/10, 04:53 AM

It needs to be legal, its one thing that I really care about. It needs to happen, and I'd love to see the safety of the prostitutes come first.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not

deFobbed14yrs

09/30/10, 06:30 AM

:boobies:

JordanBuell

09/30/10, 06:56 AM

if it was legalised, I'd quite like to see the commericals and stuff for it.

Have you been to las vegas? There are fliers for hookers are all over the place.

Steiny29

09/30/10, 07:17 AM

Prostitution should be privatized. Even if prostitution is legalized, I don't care. Johns should know what they get into (i.e. STD's) and minors shouldn't be forced into it.

Privatizing wouldn't be the best idea. Las Vegas does it right keeping a database on all their sluts and makes them get tested multiple times a year for STD's and cannot legally do it if they can burn you.

DrStrong

09/30/10, 07:47 AM

I've never understood why people can have sex for free, but yet you get in trouble if you charge money for it?

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 08:44 AM

If it is legal, there needs to be protection for the sex workers, since they're exploited most of the time. For example, unions and government oversight.

secretsociety92

09/30/10, 08:48 AM

If it is made legal then the people that do it can get help and protection without feeling like a criminal.

saysmydoctor

09/30/10, 08:51 AM

xxvdvoQgAy8
Damnit, I came to post this.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 09:02 AM

Simulcast

09/30/10, 09:07 AM

DanTGD

09/30/10, 09:15 AM

Have you been to las vegas? There are fliers for hookers are all over the place.

I mean like radio jingles and stuff haha.

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 10:05 AM

I don't like the idea of prostitution being legal. Instead of regulating it to protect "workers", start cracking down on prostitution rings hard, and go to the source, not the whores.
There are good arguments to be made for it being legal, but to me it's too morally repulsive.
Prostitution rings aren't the source of the problem. Women are one of the most economically vulnerable groups in the country and, more often than not, are forced into the lifestyle by economic circumstances. We can address that and make it safe for women that are already in the lifestyle.

mcm1610

09/30/10, 10:05 AM

Agreed. No need to encourage a practice that brings suffering to so many.

If made legal, it would work to empower the woman, who would no longer be subjected to pimps and the shady illegal dealings surrounding it. Women would be able to work for themselves, work with or for people they feel comfortable with, and enter or exit the profession as they pleased.

People are always going to want to pay for sex - why do you think it has survived so long? You can't cut to the source of the problem and remove it. The shadiness because it's illegal is the real problem.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 10:10 AM

If made legal, it would work to empower the woman, who would no longer be subjected to pimps and the shady illegal dealings surrounding it. Women would be able to work for themselves, work with or for people they feel comfortable with, and enter or exit the profession as they pleased.

People are always going to want to pay for sex - why do you think it has survived so long? You can't cut to the source of the problem and remove it. The shadiness because it's illegal is the real problem.
Yep. They should be free to make those decisions.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 10:11 AM

Agreed. No need to encourage a practice that brings suffering to so many.
*cough* Hunting *cough*

Simulcast

09/30/10, 10:14 AM

*cough* Hunting *cough*

People =/= animals. Nor do animals suffer in the way humans do in sex trafficking.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 10:18 AM

People =/= animals. Nor do animals suffer in the way humans do in sex trafficking.
Uh, yeah -- death is worse.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 10:19 AM

Interesting career prospect for young Canadian teenagers growing up.

I wouldn't want it legalized simply because I wouldn't want my sister/daughter becoming a whore.

Crazy idea; why don't you raise your daughter 'properly', so that she doesn't become a whore (:shudder:/:rolleyes:) instead of legislating that decision for everybody?

Nah, fuck it, right? We can have the government just end it then bitch about how the government interferes in our affairs.
:rolleyes:

Simulcast

09/30/10, 10:23 AM

Uh, yeah -- death is worse.

Supposing that animals view suffering and death the same way we do, and supposing that I will equate the death of animal vs. the death of a human, I would rather be shot and killed instantly than forced to have sex, contract terrible diseases, and be at the mercy of a scumbag who paid to ravage me time and time again.

Really? Hunting vs. Prostitution?

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 10:25 AM

I don't like the idea of prostitution being legal. Instead of regulating it to protect "workers", start cracking down on prostitution rings hard, and go to the source, not the whores.
There are good arguments to be made for it being legal, but to me it's too morally repulsive.

Agreed. No need to encourage a practice that brings suffering to so many.

If it was legalized, you would remove the 'seedy' element of prostitution; no more pimps, no more street corners, less STDs, less drug usage, only women of age, etc.

On the other hand, if you two find it morally reprehension because someone is fucking someone just because they exchanged money...well, then that's your opinion and it should no effect on the legislation/legality of prostitution.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 10:25 AM

Supposing that animals view suffering and death the same way we do, and supposing that I will equate the death of animal vs. the death of a human, I would rather be shot and killed instantly than forced to have sex, contract terrible diseases, and be at the mercy of a scumbag who paid to ravage me time and time again.

Really? Hunting vs. Prostitution?
Just pointing out your hypocrisy.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 10:26 AM

Echo Park

09/30/10, 10:27 AM

Interesting career prospect for young Canadian teenagers growing up.

I wouldn't want it legalized simply because I wouldn't want my sister/daughter becoming a whore.
if your sister/daughter became a whore, that's bad parenting.

Simulcast

09/30/10, 10:28 AM

Just pointing out your hypocrisy.

No, you are equating hunting with the suffering faced by women in the sex industry.

Simulcast

09/30/10, 10:29 AM

Really? :rolleyes:

Every person who buys a hooker is just a scumbag looking to 'ravage' some poor woman?

Nope, but that's quite common in the sex industry. Maybe not here, but in many places all over the world.

deFobbed14yrs

09/30/10, 10:29 AM

:tv: :popcorn:

Simulcast

09/30/10, 10:30 AM

If it was legalized, you would remove the 'seedy' element of prostitution; no more pimps, no more street corners, less STDs, less drug usage, only women of age, etc.

On the other hand, if you two find it morally reprehension because someone is fucking someone just because they exchanged money...well, then that's your opinion and it should no effect on the legislation/legality of prostitution.

I do, but I suppose I agree with you in that we shouldn't legislate against it. I agreed with that guy because he was interested in stopping the "seedy" elements. Sex trafficking in other countries is a horrific practice. I'm sure you know that.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 10:31 AM

Nope, but that's quite common in the sex industry. Maybe not here, but in many places all over the world.

Wouldn't that be all the more reason to regulate and control the safety of the industry?

Or are we going to complain about the conditions of prostitutes and call it morally reprehensible and then do nothing to change that?

kieza

09/30/10, 10:33 AM

Lucky Canucks!

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 10:34 AM

I find it funny that the people that are morally against it are using the term "whore", which dehumanizes them.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 10:35 AM

No, you are equating hunting with the suffering faced by women in the sex industry.
No I'm not.

I'm saying you're a hypocrite for saying "no need to encourage a practice that brings suffering to so many."

Simulcast

09/30/10, 10:36 AM

No I'm not.

Well then, where is my hypocrisy?

Edit: I see what you are saying, but that's quite a stretch. Apples and animals as you would say.

deFobbed14yrs

09/30/10, 10:36 AM

I do, but I suppose I agree with you in that we shouldn't legislate against it. I agreed with that guy because he was interested in stopping the "seedy" elements. Sex trafficking in other countries is a horrific practice. I'm sure you know that.

it's not exactly legal in those countries....and hopefully if something like this pases in the U.S. it will HELP law enforcement crack down on pimps, since the prostitute can go get help from the law instead of being arrested for being a prostitute.

I'm so tired of the government/men regulating what women can do with their bodies.:penis:

Echo Park

09/30/10, 10:38 AM

I watched the movie The American w/ George Clooney and he fell in love with a prostitute...

Simulcast

09/30/10, 10:40 AM

it's not exactly legal in those countries....and hopefully if something like this pases in the U.S. it will HELP law enforcement crack down on pimps, since the prostitute can go get help from the law instead of being arrested for being a prostitute.

I'm so tired of the government/men regulating what the fuck women can do with their bodies.

In this country that's potentially viable. In others, not so much.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 10:40 AM

Well then, where is my hypocrisy?

Edit: I see what you are saying, but that's quite a stretch. Apples and animals as you would say.
I just don't get how you can be for a practice that brings suffering to many (animals and humans), and then against another.

deFobbed14yrs

09/30/10, 10:41 AM

In this country that's potentially viable. In others, not so much.

I'm focusing on America, and I think it could work here. Than other countries will have a model to follow.

Echo Park

09/30/10, 10:41 AM

it's not exactly legal in those countries....and hopefully if something like this pases in the U.S. it will HELP law enforcement crack down on pimps, since the prostitute can go get help from the law instead of being arrested for being a prostitute.

I'm so tired of the government/men regulating what women can do with their bodies.:penis:

I hear you. If women want to tute themselves out, who are men to tell them otherwise. When some guy smacks around that same tute and stabs her in the ladyparts and she dies, I hope she doesn't blame anyone but herself

Simulcast

09/30/10, 10:42 AM

I don't get how you can be for a practice that brings suffering to many (animals and humans), and then against another.

Because I don't equate hunting an animal with killing a woman for sexual pleasure, or forcing them into sexual slavery.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 10:43 AM

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 10:43 AM

Because I don't equate hunting an animal with killing a woman for sexual pleasure, or forcing them into sexual slavery.
Neither do I. But I do equate suffering with suffering.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 10:45 AM

If it was legalized, you would remove the 'seedy' element of prostitution; no more pimps, no more street corners, less STDs, less drug usage, only women of age, etc.

On the other hand, if you two find it morally reprehension because someone is fucking someone just because they exchanged money...well, then that's your opinion and it should no effect on the legislation/legality of prostitution.

So public opinion should have no effect on legislation? I'm not saying my opinion should hold more weight than anyone elses.

deFobbed14yrs

09/30/10, 10:46 AM

I hear you. If women want to tute themselves out, who are men to tell them otherwise. When some guy smacks around that same tute and stabs her in the ladyparts and she dies, I hope she doesn't blame anyone but herself

Wow. Just wow.

Why are you acting that if this bill was passed every girl would suddenly become a prostitute? Do you think so low of all women? Thousands of girls and women are already victimized every year even with our current laws. So a bill is passed to decriminalize prostitution, and in doing so allowing those women, many who are kidnapped and forced to walk the streets, to be able to help themselves either get out of the situation or at least better their quality of work conditions.

And in your scenario, the man is fully at fault.

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 10:47 AM

http://www.iusw.org/node/1

jawstheme

09/30/10, 10:48 AM

I find it funny that the people that are morally against it are using the term "whore", which dehumanizes them.

What term would you like me to use so that you know that I know we are talking about humans?

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 10:49 AM

I hear you. If women want to tute themselves out, who are men to tell them otherwise. When some guy smacks around that same tute and stabs her in the ladyparts and she dies, I hope she doesn't blame anyone but herself
The problem seems to be the male, does it not? He committed the crime, the woman was simply trying to make a living. Decriminalization brings issues like these into the light and reduces the probability of their occurrences.

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 10:50 AM

What term would you like me to use so that you know that I know we are talking about humans?

Well, they are women. Or sex workers would be good as well. I just find it inconsistent to criticize prostitution and then use words which are historically attached to the repression of female sexuality.

mcm1610

09/30/10, 10:54 AM

I find it funny that the people that are morally against it are using the term "whore", which dehumanizes them.
Eh... I don't know about that. Whore obviously has more of a negative connotation, but that is their job occupation if they sell themselves for money, right?

[Definitions (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+whore&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

We could always use the term prostitute, but I don't think it's wrong to say whore in its place.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 10:54 AM

Well, they are women. Or sex workers would be good as well. I just find it inconsistent to criticize prostitution and then use words which are historically attached to the repression of female sexuality.

I was using the word in its literal definition, not to repress the female gender. http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/whore

But from now on I'll use sex worker or prosititute so I don't get accused of being a sexist asshole.

Echo Park

09/30/10, 10:55 AM

Wow. Just wow.

Why are you acting that if this bill was passed every girl would suddenly become a prostitute? Do you think so low of all women? Thousands of girls and women are already victimized every year even with our current laws. So a bill is passed to decriminalize prostitution, and in doing so allowing those women, many who are kidnapped and forced to walk the streets, to be able to help themselves either get out of the situation or at least better their quality of work conditions.

And in your scenario, the man is fully at fault.
I said no such thing

The problem seems to be the male, does it not? He committed the crime, the woman was simply trying to make a living. Decriminalization brings issues like these into the light and reduces the probability of their occurrences.

the world is a dirty place. these things are going to happen. I don't mean to bring religion into it because this place is littered with liberals, but prostitution is a sin, the Constitution was written with the Bible in mind. Must America continue to fall further from the bible?

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 10:58 AM

Using the term is like using derogatory terms for other groups of people ... it classifies them, and continues the perception of them, as less than human. I definitely can understand that argument. Just as people using words like "retarded" or "queer" - even while the definition fits - it still reinforces negative stereotypes.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 10:58 AM

Pleae don't turn this into a religious debate.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 10:59 AM

I said no such thing

the world is a dirty place. these things are going to happen. I don't mean to bring religion into it because this place is littered with liberals, but prostitution is a sin, the Constitution was written with the Bible in mind. Must America continue to fall further from the bible?
Our country is not obligated to make laws based on what is a "sin" or not. This is just insane.

Echo Park

09/30/10, 10:59 AM

just saying

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:02 AM

just saying
What, exactly, are you saying? That you want to return to the dark ages? That you want the Bible to be the moral ground for which all Americans abide? That you didn't pay attention during American history?

I'm not sure what you're saying.

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:02 AM

Our country is not obligated to make laws based on what is a "sin" or not. This is just insane.
Maybe true, but society sees it differently. Adultery isn't illegal but why do many political figures lose office when caught cheating?

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:06 AM

What, exactly, are you saying? That you want to return to the dark ages? That you want the Bible to be the moral ground for which all Americans abide? That you didn't pay attention during American history?

I'm not sure what you're saying.
Dark ages? Must you liberals go from one extreme to another? Instead of arguing why can't people let it be? I couldn't care less if someone was gay, but why are they so adamant on getting married? I couldn't care less if people use prostitutes, why must it be legalized? Leave it alone, the government doesn't need to get involved in such matters. Why must it be in the law book?

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 11:06 AM

So public opinion should have no effect on legislation? I'm not saying my opinion should hold more weight than anyone elses.

Absolutely not. Especially when the legalization/legislation would remove pimps, keep underage girls from being on the streets, as well as lower the sexually transmitted diseases and other dangers of the underground prostitution we have now.

Public opinion doesn't matter to me when people's misconceptions and prejudices keep people in the line of danger.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:06 AM

Maybe true, but society sees it differently. Adultery isn't illegal but why do many political figures lose office when caught cheating?
Proving that we do not legislate based upon sin. And there's biological reasons we look down upon adultery. Indeed, studies of primate behavior reveal that these emotions (in some form) precede humanity itself.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:07 AM

Dark ages? Must you liberals go from one extreme to another? Instead of arguing why can't people let it be? I couldn't care less if someone was gay, but why are they so adamant on getting married? I couldn't care less if people use prostitutes, why must it be legalized? Leave it alone, the government doesn't need to get involved in such matters. Why must it be in the law book?
Proof that sometimes it's better to just give the rope, sit back, and watch people hang themselves.

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 11:08 AM

Eh... I don't know about that. Whore obviously has more of a negative connotation, but that is their job occupation if they sell themselves for money, right?

[Definitions (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+whore&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

We could always use the term prostitute, but I don't think it's wrong to say whore in its place.
The term "whore", I think, makes one forget we're talking about actual women; it implies a subsection, which is less than average women. Besides, we all sell ourselves to a lesser or greater degree, so I see little distinction between myself and a sex worker.

the world is a dirty place. these things are going to happen.
So, blame the victim instead of the perpetrator? This is no different than blaming a rape victim because she wore something "revealing". Well, if those things illicit violent responses, then obviously the perpetrator has power issues.

I don't mean to bring religion into it because this place is littered with liberals, but prostitution is a sin

Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
MATTHEW 21:28-32

the Constitution was written with the Bible in mind. Must America continue to fall further from the bible
False. See Treaty of Tripoli and the fact that the framers were deists.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

http://www.nobeliefs.com/document.htm
Must America continue to fall further from the bible?

Yahweh, I hope so.

deFobbed14yrs

09/30/10, 11:08 AM

Maybe true, but society sees it differently. Adultery isn't illegal but why do many political figures lose office when caught cheating?

Most of them step down from the shame, they aren't voted out.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 11:08 AM

I do, but I suppose I agree with you in that we shouldn't legislate against it. I agreed with that guy because he was interested in stopping the "seedy" elements. Sex trafficking in other countries is a horrific practice. I'm sure you know that.

No shit. Other countries also have lead in their paint and warlords. This is America.

apples =/= oranges, etc.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 11:10 AM

Wouldn't that be all the more reason to regulate and control the safety of the industry?

Or are we going to complain about the conditions of prostitutes and call it morally reprehensible and then do nothing to change that?

I'd really enjoy it if someone could answer this. How can you complain about the current conditions of prostitution (while it's illegal) and not want to change that to be safer for those involved?

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:11 AM

I knew you were liberals, but not such extremist liberals.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 11:11 AM

Absolutely not. Especially when the legalization/legislation would remove pimps, keep underage girls from being on the streets, as well as lower the sexually transmitted diseases and other dangers of the underground prostitution we have now.

Public opinion doesn't matter to me when people's misconceptions and prejudices keep people in the line of danger.

Why don't we use law enforcement to do that instead of bending to something illegal? Legalizing and regulating hardcore drugs like heroin and meth would stop a lot of crime too, but you wouldn't want that to happen, would you?

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 11:13 AM

Why don't we use law enforcement to do that instead of bending to something illegal? Legalizing and regulating hardcore drugs like heroin and meth would stop a lot of crime too, but you wouldn't want that to happen, would you?

Hardcore drugs =/= prostitution.

You're only equating prostitution with horrible things now because of it's illegality. If it was legalized and regulated, it would be about one step away from pumping drinks into some chick at the bar.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:14 AM

I knew you were liberals, but not such extremist liberals.
I don't think there is anything extreme about the equality of rights.

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 11:14 AM

Why don't we use law enforcement to do that instead of bending to something illegal? Legalizing and regulating hardcore drugs like heroin and meth would stop a lot of crime too, but you wouldn't want that to happen, would you?
How successful has law enforcement been in stopping the flow of heroin and meth? It has created a flow of people into prison and that's about it.

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 11:15 AM

I quoted Jesus and didn't even get a response from echo. :(

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:15 AM

Why don't we use law enforcement to do that instead of bending to something illegal? Legalizing and regulating hardcore drugs like heroin and meth would stop a lot of crime too, but you wouldn't want that to happen, would you?
Because law enforcement can't do it, for one. And what's the reason for it being "illegal"? I just think we can help those that are going to be engaging in that activity. And we should, if we can. This includes sponsoring health, psychiatric, and other programs.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:16 AM

I quoted Jesus and didn't even get a response from echo. :(
:-d

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:19 AM

Themes emerging from the interviews include: that people often see prostitutes as unrapeable; that no harm is done; that prostitutes deserve to be raped; and that all prostitutes are the same. This paper sees violence against prostitutes as an extreme case that sheds light on violence against women generally.

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a922348219

Interesting paper on this topic.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 11:19 AM

Hardcore drugs =/= prostitution.

You're only equating prostitution with horrible things now because of it's illegality. If it was legalized and regulated, it would be about one step away from pumping drinks into some chick at the bar.

"Our findings contradict common myths about prostitution: the assumption that street prostitution is the worst type of prostitution, that prostitution of men and boys is different from prostitution of women and girls, that most of those in prostitution freely consent to it, that most people are in prostitution because of drug addiction, that prostitution is qualitatively different from trafficking, and that legalizing or decriminalizing prostitution would decrease its harm. "

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a904140434

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:20 AM

Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
MATTHEW 21:28-32.

it's funny that you quote Matthew in the bible, as my name is Matthew. He was a tax collector who became one of the twelve disciples. He changed his ways and followed Jesus, thus he can enter heaven. Prostitutes who changed their ways enter heaven. It's people like you that "even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him"

jawstheme

09/30/10, 11:23 AM

Because law enforcement can't do it, for one. And what's the reason for it being "illegal"? I just think we can help those that are going to be engaging in that activity. And we should, if we can. This includes sponsoring health, psychiatric, and other programs.

I think we should and can help them too, but legalization, in my opinion, is not the answer.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 11:25 AM

"Our findings contradict common myths about prostitution: the assumption that street prostitution is the worst type of prostitution, that prostitution of men and boys is different from prostitution of women and girls, that most of those in prostitution freely consent to it, that most people are in prostitution because of drug addiction, that prostitution is qualitatively different from trafficking, and that legalizing or decriminalizing prostitution would decrease its harm. "

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a904140434

Awesome dude. You posted a link with information on prostitution in other countriesand here...where it's still illegal. Did you purposefully blow off my point about how prostitution would change if it was regulated and legalized, or did the point not land?

You know what would be crazy? If prostitutes, no longer fearing going to jail or legal recourse, could actually go to the police if they were raped, robbed or beaten. Absolutely fucking crazy, I know.

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:25 AM

I quoted Jesus and didn't even get a response from echo. :(

:-d

are you two trying to bully me or something?

saysmydoctor

09/30/10, 11:25 AM

I'd like to point out there are male prostitutes. That is all.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 11:27 AM

I think we should and can help them too, but legalization, in my opinion, is not the answer.

So how do you suppose helping prostitutes if they still have to keep what they do under cover due to fear of legal recourse? You want to help prostitutes, but you don't want to stop them from being criminals and remaining in the underground.

That's fucking hypocritical.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 11:28 AM

I'd like to point out there are male prostitutes. That is all.

BULLSHIT!

Sitcoms have proven to me that women are just soulless harpies who view sex like a chore. No way they'd ever go to a male prostitute!
;-)

saysmydoctor

09/30/10, 11:29 AM

are you two trying to bully me or something?
Oh wah.

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:30 AM

I don't think there is anything extreme about the equality of rights.

equal rights. I agree, everyone should have equal rights. We can all vote, we can all go to school, get jobs etc. If one day I wake up and say I want to marry my pet monkey should I be able to? Equal rights says...

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 11:32 AM

it's funny that you quote Matthew in the bible, as my name is Matthew. He was a tax collector who became one of the twelve disciples. He changed his ways and followed Jesus, thus he can enter heaven. Prostitutes who changed their ways enter heaven. It's people like you that "even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him"
I'm not going to debate religion because, frankly, I probably know more than you. Suffice it to say, no one changes their ways and everyone is inherently sinful, so your argument fails according to your own ideological structure; not to mention the fact that it is faith, not works, which is important. The point I was trying to make is, unlike you, Jesus saw prostitutes as human and saw that, despite their acts, they were more worthy than, say, a Pharisee who went on and on about abiding by the law. Let us also not forget the fact that the Christian church taught that prostitution was permissible because it prevents lusts from taking over. Anyway, your religious beliefs have no relevance to the discussion and we'll come back to reality.

/Back on topic

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:32 AM

equal rights. I agree, everyone should have equal rights. We can all vote, we can all go to school, get jobs etc. If one day I wake up and say I want to marry my pet monkey should I be able to? Equal rights says...
I don't think monkeys should have the same rights as humans. So, equal rights don't play a role. However, sure. I don't care who you marry. Marry your monkey for all I care. It doesn't impact me.

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:33 AM

I don't think monkeys should have the same rights as humans. So, equal rights don't play a role. However, sure. I don't care who you marry. Marry your monkey for all I care. It doesn't impact me.
who should judge? gays should be able to get married...don't have to get laws changed to do so though

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 11:34 AM

equal rights. I agree, everyone should have equal rights. We can all vote, we can all go to school, get jobs etc. If one day I wake up and say I want to marry my pet monkey should I be able to? Equal rights says...

Sure, if you can train the monkey to sign his name on the marriage certificate and have the monkey understand the repercussions of that action, then you knock yourself right the fuck out.

May I recommend a howler monkey? They're so loud, the neighbors will think you're a god in bed. Or the tree. Whatever.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 11:35 AM

who should judge? gays should be able to get married...don't have to get laws changed to do so though

Actually, it does, seeing as gay marriage is currently illegal.

Are you stoned, or just not very bright?

jawstheme

09/30/10, 11:37 AM

Awesome dude. You posted a link with information on prostitution in other countriesand here...where it's still illegal. Did you purposefully blow off my point about how prostitution would change if it was regulated and legalized, or did the point not land?

You know what would be crazy? If prostitutes, no longer fearing going to jail or legal recourse, could actually go to the police if they were raped, robbed or beaten. Absolutely fucking crazy, I know.

The study compared legal and illegal prostitutes, you know, like a good study should. Come on, man.

It's legal and regulated in Amsterdam, right? http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/182348

"While legalisation was supposed to turn prostitutes into self-employed taxpayers who did not need pimps for protection, the city said the industry is still dominated by criminals attracted by the 370 euros each woman can earn a day. "

You may say I'm naive for thinking we can crack down on prostitution rings with law enforcement, but I think it's naive to think we can regulate it by making it legal.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:37 AM

who should judge? gays should be able to get married...don't have to get laws changed to do so though
Laws have to be changed to do it. What is wrong with you?

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:39 AM

I'm not going to debate religion because, frankly, I probably know more than you. Suffice it to say, no one changes their ways and everyone is inherently sinful, so your argument fails according to your own ideological structure; not to mention the fact that it is faith, not works, which is important. The point I was trying to make is, unlike you, Jesus saw prostitutes as human and saw that, despite their acts, they were more worthy than, say, a Pharisee who went on and on about abiding by the law. Let us also not forget the fact that the Christian church taught that prostitution was permissible because it prevents lusts from taking over. Anyway, your religious beliefs have no relevance to the discussion and we'll come back to reality.

/Back on topic
Yes you know more about religion than I do. That's very mature of you to say, especially at 25.Everything you said was a failure, leave it at that. I'm not going to write a novel.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:41 AM

http://i53.tinypic.com/70kl7b.gif

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 11:42 AM

The study compared legal and illegal prostitutes, you know, like a good study should. Come on, man.

It's legal and regulated in Amsterdam, right? http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/182348

"While legalisation was supposed to turn prostitutes into self-employed taxpayers who did not need pimps for protection, the city said the industry is still dominated by criminals attracted by the 370 euros each woman can earn a day. "

You may say I'm naive for thinking we can crack down on prostitution rings with law enforcement, but I think it's naive to think we can regulate it by making it legal.
I think that is why decriminalization must be done in concern with socioeconomic reform. We can make it safer and also provide the means for men and women to avoid/get out of the lifestyle.

Yes you know more about religion than I do. That's very mature of you to say, especially at 25.Everything you said was a failure, leave it at that. I'm not going to write a novel.
It is just a matter of fact, not immaturity.

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:43 AM

Laws have to be changed to do it. What is wrong with you?
Why do you debate with people when you know your mind will not be changed?

jawstheme

09/30/10, 11:44 AM

So how do you suppose helping prostitutes if they still have to keep what they do under cover due to fear of legal recourse? You want to help prostitutes, but you don't want to stop them from being criminals and remaining in the underground.

That's fucking hypocritical.

It would be hypocritical of me to say I'm against prostitution and then go buy a prostitute. It's not hypocritical of me to say I don't think legalizing prostitution would solve the problems with it.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:44 AM

Why do you debate with people when you know your mind will not be changed?
Why do you debate with people without having a grasp on reality?

jawstheme

09/30/10, 11:46 AM

I think that is why decriminalization must be done in concern with socioeconomic reform. We can make it safer and also provide the means for men and women to avoid/get out of the lifestyle.

It is just a matter of fact, not immaturity.

This I can agree with more.

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:46 AM

jawstheme

09/30/10, 11:47 AM

American society says i'm smarter than 99% of American society... but yet not even I would say something like that.

I can't figure out what you're talking about.

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:48 AM

Sure, if you can train the monkey to sign his name on the marriage certificate and have the monkey understand the repercussions of that action, then you knock yourself right the fuck out.

May I recommend a howler monkey? They're so loud, the neighbors will think you're a god in bed. Or the tree. Whatever.

so mentally handicapped people can't get married with that reasoning.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:49 AM

We have our new gen thread title!

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:49 AM

I can't figure out what you're talking about.
No worries, Mr. I know more than you.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:50 AM

so mentally handicapped people can't get married with that reasoning.
Unless laws have recently been changed ... they can't in roughly 30 states.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 11:50 AM

No worries, Mr. I know more than you.

Ok then.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 11:56 AM

Echo Park

09/30/10, 11:57 AM

Ok then.
to go back to your immature post. i should post a thread titled "The Ivy Thread" for those of like minds, would you be able to enter it?
lol I can be immature too.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 11:58 AM

so mentally handicapped people can't get married with that reasoning.

You do realize most mentally handicapped people do understand the idea of 'marriage', right? Do you have any idea how fucking offensive it is to compare mentally handicapped people to a fucking monkey?

jawstheme

09/30/10, 11:58 AM

to go back to your immature post. i should post a thread titled "The Ivy Thread" for those of like minds, would you be able to enter it?
lol I can be immature too.

What post? I seriously can't figure out what you're talking about.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 11:58 AM

I want to return this troll and get my money back.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 11:59 AM

It would be hypocritical of me to say I'm against prostitution and then go buy a prostitute. It's not hypocritical of me to say I don't think legalizing prostitution would solve the problems with it.

How do you resolve we fix the problems with it then? Obviously making it illegal isn't helping anything, but you say making it legal wouldn't do anything either. So how do we fix this?

Echo Park

09/30/10, 12:00 PM

You do realize most mentally handicapped people do understand the idea of 'marriage', right? Do you have any idea how fucking offensive it is to compare mentally handicapped people to a fucking monkey?
lol this made me laugh, was it suppose to?

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 12:00 PM

I want to return this troll and get my money back.

Ha ha, if only.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 12:00 PM

lol this made me laugh, was it suppose to?

I would expect nothing more from you, mostly because you seem like a tool.

Echo Park

09/30/10, 12:02 PM

I would expect nothing more from you, mostly because you seem like a tool.
resorting to name calling... the people i'm dealing with...

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 12:04 PM

Jaws, I think Echo has confused me with you. It's easy to confuse extreme liberals, I guess. Anyway, I think, if it is to be legalized, the process should be similar to getting one's drivers license.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 12:05 PM

Alright, so what do you recommend we do?

Do our best to clean in it up with law enforcement, but punish the criminals and not the victims. Get the prostitutes proper treatment, and punish the pimps and ring leaders harshly.
I don't think many girls want to be in prostitution, but love as arson made a good point by saying things need to change socioeconomically, or no amount of law enforcement or regulation will fix the problem.

zion the lion

09/30/10, 12:11 PM

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not

100% serious.

Zeran

09/30/10, 12:18 PM

Prostitution should be privatized. Even if prostitution is legalized, I don't care. Johns should know what they get into (i.e. STD's) and minors shouldn't be forced into it.

If made legal, it would work to empower the woman, who would no longer be subjected to pimps and the shady illegal dealings surrounding it. Women would be able to work for themselves, work with or for people they feel comfortable with, and enter or exit the profession as they pleased.

People are always going to want to pay for sex - why do you think it has survived so long? You can't cut to the source of the problem and remove it. The shadiness because it's illegal is the real problem.

If it was legalized, you would remove the 'seedy' element of prostitution; no more pimps, no more street corners, less STDs, less drug usage, only women of age, etc.

On the other hand, if you two find it morally reprehension because someone is fucking someone just because they exchanged money...well, then that's your opinion and it should no effect on the legislation/legality of prostitution.

exactly.

Nevuk

09/30/10, 12:20 PM

I knew you were liberals, but not such extremist liberals.
Really. Really?

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 12:25 PM

resorting to name calling... the people i'm dealing with...

A moron...the person we're dealing with;

equal rights. I agree, everyone should have equal rights. We can all vote, we can all go to school, get jobs etc. If one day I wake up and say I want to marry my pet monkey should I be able to? Equal rights says...

Yes you know more about religion than I do. That's very mature of you to say, especially at 25.Everything you said was a failure, leave it at that. I'm not going to write a novel.

American society says i'm smarter than 99% of American society... but yet not even I would say something like that.

to go back to your immature post. i should post a thread titled "The Ivy Thread" for those of like minds, would you be able to enter it?
lol I can be immature too.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 12:26 PM

Do our best to clean in it up with law enforcement, but punish the criminals and not the victims. Get the prostitutes proper treatment, and punish the pimps and ring leaders harshly.
I don't think many girls want to be in prostitution, but love as arson made a good point by saying things need to change socioeconomically, or no amount of law enforcement or regulation will fix the problem.

So the women wouldn't be hassled by the police (even though the practice would still be illegal), only the pimps and the ring leaders?

tizabor

09/30/10, 12:31 PM

I guess I could see it being good if it was completely in the hands of a legit business and not some pimp. They would fall under the axact same workplace code that anyone would, so it would have to be safe for the prostitutes. But the "customers" how could they regulate them? What is stopping a sex crazed maniac from hurting them? Its just all a little sketchy to me.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 12:34 PM

So the women wouldn't be hassled by the police (even though the practice would still be illegal), only the pimps and the ring leaders?

Right. Why not have empathy for prostitutes? Most of them are either forced to do it, or do it because they need money that bad.
So maybe decriminalize the actual practice of prostitution (treatment instead of punishment) but crack down on pimping, or whatever you want to call it. I see too many cases where a cop will arrest a prostitute and think he or she has done their job.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 12:36 PM

Right. Why not have empathy for prostitutes? Most of them are either forced to do it, or do it because they need money that bad.
So maybe decriminalize the actual practice of prostitution (treatment instead of punishment) but crack down on pimping, or whatever you want to call it. I see too many cases where a cop will arrest a prostitute and think he or she has done their job.

So what about if a few girls got together and wanted to continue to prostitute (by their own choice) and work without a pimp or ring leader. Do we arrest them as well?

jawstheme

09/30/10, 12:42 PM

So what about if a few girls got together and wanted to continue to prostitute (by their own choice) and work without a pimp or ring leader. Do we arrest them as well?

No. Give them a slap on the wrist maybe, a minor fine or something. I think it's tough because most girls get into it for economic reasons. Now if those reasons are taken away, and a girl still wants to be a prostitute in a scenario like you mentioned, then alright. Cops shouldn't go looking to bust something like that. I think it's important to keep it illegal though or the people who run these things will just find regulations and laws to hide behind, and there would still be underground prositution.

zion the lion

09/30/10, 12:42 PM

tizabor

09/30/10, 12:51 PM

There was this guy up here, he would take prostitutes out somewhere like the woods, and pick them off like a hunter would with animals.
Thats really messed up...

Love As Arson

09/30/10, 01:00 PM

"In both cases [Catholic & Protestant], however, marriage is
determined by the class position of the participants, and to that
extent always remains marriage of convenience. In both cases, this
marriage of convenience often enough turns into the crassest
prostitution -- sometimes on both sides, but much more generally on
the part of the wife, who differs from the ordinary courtesan only in
that she does not hire out her body, like a wage-worker, on
piecework, but sells it into slavery once for all. And Fourier's
words hold good for all marriages of convenience: "Just as in grammar
two negatives make a positive, so in the morals of marriage, two
prostitutions make one virtue."

Echo Park

09/30/10, 01:00 PM

lol, i got an infraction for insulting other members. hahah i didn't mean to insult you kids.
C'MON MAN STOP!
edit:
I don't want my 1500 posts to go to waste! it took a lot of time accumulating all of those, don't end me now

Kozzy333

09/30/10, 01:04 PM

I'm surprised by the results of this poll: http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofview/2010/09/canadas-prostitution-laws-did-a-judge-make-the-right-call.html

79.6% polled so far agree that this was the right decision to make. I didn't think there would be a such a majority support for this.

zion the lion

09/30/10, 01:07 PM

Thats really messed up...

He had a wife, and she knew about it, but he intimidated her so that she wouldnt tell.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 01:25 PM

No. Give them a slap on the wrist maybe, a minor fine or something. I think it's tough because most girls get into it for economic reasons. Now if those reasons are taken away, and a girl still wants to be a prostitute in a scenario like you mentioned, then alright. Cops shouldn't go looking to bust something like that. I think it's important to keep it illegal though or the people who run these things will just find regulations and laws to hide behind, and there would still be underground prositution.

I guess I just don't feel that leaving it illegal would make it any better, and based on the bolded, I don't see what the difference would be if it was legal, except now there's less interface with police and more interface with regulations and inspectors.

For instance, if it's still illegal, when you arrest the pimp, there's just going to be another pimp to fill the vacuum. It's like arresting the local pot dealer; someone else will just take his place.

DrStrong

09/30/10, 01:50 PM

I guess I just don't feel that leaving it illegal would make it any better, and based on the bolded, I don't see what the difference would be if it was legal, except now there's less interface with police and more interface with regulations and inspectors.

For instance, if it's still illegal, when you arrest the pimp, there's just going to be another pimp to fill the vacuum. It's like arresting the local pot dealer; someone else will just take his place.

Should just make it legal like Nevada has it legal. If a brothel was treated like a legitimate business, with drug testing, what would the problem be? People having sex for money causes harm to no one.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 01:53 PM

Question: Why is filming a professional pornographic video (woman being paid to have sex) legal, whereas prostitution (woman being paid to have sex) is not?

Machu505

09/30/10, 01:55 PM

I take a principled stance in favor of having sex.

DrStrong

09/30/10, 01:55 PM

Question: Why is filming a professional pornographic video (woman being paid to have sex) legal, whereas prostitution (woman being paid to have sex) is not?

I think the whole issue is related to the federal government wanting to stay moral, which sounds really dumb but I cant think of any other reason. I guess they dont want to allow something that a LOT of people will disagree with, which again sounds really dumb. But for porn, the government just hates it for whatever reason.

Still, how can you do something for free, but then it turns illegal once money is involved?

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 01:59 PM

Question: Why is filming a professional pornographic video (woman being paid to have sex) legal, whereas prostitution (woman being paid to have sex) is not?
http://articles.cnn.com/2005-08-12/justice/colb.pornography_1_prostitution-ring-sexual-services-pornography?_s=PM:LAW

jessicalynn-xx

09/30/10, 02:03 PM

People =/= animals. Nor do animals suffer in the way humans do in sex trafficking.

Prostitution =/= sex trafficking.

DrStrong

09/30/10, 02:05 PM

Prostitution =/= sex trafficking.

If a female, or male, is willing to accept money for sex, who gives a shit. Privatize the entire industry and tax the brothels, could you imagine if "happy ending" massage parlors were legal is Southern California? Holy shit.

jessicalynn-xx

09/30/10, 02:07 PM

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:10 PM

I guess I just don't feel that leaving it illegal would make it any better, and based on the bolded, I don't see what the difference would be if it was legal, except now there's less interface with police and more interface with regulations and inspectors.

For instance, if it's still illegal, when you arrest the pimp, there's just going to be another pimp to fill the vacuum. It's like arresting the local pot dealer; someone else will just take his place.

Basically it can't be fixed until the problems of poverty are fixed. Either way, legal or illegal, there are going to be women forced into it, and there will be underground sex trafficking. Atleast if it's illegal it'll be easier to put the scumbags who run these things in jail.

Simulcast

09/30/10, 02:12 PM

Prostitution =/= sex trafficking.

It does when we are talking about the negative aspects of it. Which we are.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:12 PM

Question: Why is filming a professional pornographic video (woman being paid to have sex) legal, whereas prostitution (woman being paid to have sex) is not?

I don't know.

Simulcast

09/30/10, 02:12 PM

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:15 PM

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:15 PM

Basically it can't be fixed until the problems of poverty are fixed. Either way, legal or illegal, there are going to be women forced into it, and there will be underground sex trafficking. Atleast if it's illegal it'll be easier to put the scumbags who run these things in jail.

If it was legal, how would women be forced into it? They could go to the police. If prostiution/brothels were legalized, no one could 'force' a woman into it anymore than they can 'force' a woman to waitress.

As well, the legality of prositution =/= sex trafficking. Don't correlate the two. Just because it's people 'buying sex', it's not the same thing.

jessicalynn-xx

09/30/10, 02:17 PM

It does when we are talking about the negative aspects of it. Which we are.

No it doesn't. Those are separate things. As has been said here already, sex trafficking can still be illegal even if prostitution is legal.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:17 PM

It does when we are talking about the negative aspects of it. Which we are.

Making prostitution legal does nothing to affect sex trafficking, and vice versa. They are entirely different entities, especially if prostitution was legal and regulated/inspected.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:18 PM

If it was legal, how would women be forced into it? They could go to the police. If prostiution/brothels were legalized, no one could 'force' a woman into it anymore than they can 'force' a woman to waitress.

As well, the legality of prositution =/= sex trafficking. Don't correlate the two. Just because it's people 'buying sex', it's not the same thing.

But sex traffickers would hide behind the legality of prostitution, like they do in the articles I showed you earlier. We've been through this.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:19 PM

But sex traffickers would hide behind the legality of prostitution, like they do in the articles I showed you earlier. We've been through this.
So, we should structure the law in way that closes the loophole.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:19 PM

Sex-trafficking can still be illegal if prostitution is not. And, arguably, one way to help fix poverty is allow someone to make money however they can ...

Most women who are prostitutes don't want to be. Poverty forced them into it. How is making it legal going to help that?

jessicalynn-xx

09/30/10, 02:20 PM

I would just like to point out that this ruling didn't make prostitution legal. Prostitution has always been legal in Canada. This ruling makes it possible for prostitutes to operate out of bawdy-houses, which were previously illegal. I think we can all agree this is a necessary option if prostitution is legal?

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:20 PM

So, we should structure the law in way that closes the loophole.

If they make a law that ends sex trafficking I'm all for it. I just doubt that law will have much to do with making prostitution legal.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:22 PM

Most women who are prostitutes don't want to be. Poverty forced them into it. How is making it legal going to help that?
Give them the safety and legal backing to only have to do it for a few years if they are "forced into it" ... and keep the vast majority of the money in those cases as well. It's like saying someone is "forced" to work at McDonalds because poverty forced them into it. Most people don't want to work there either. If they choose that line of work - which the ones doing it are going to regardless of legality - we should give them the ability to do it safely.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:22 PM

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:22 PM

If they make a law that ends sex trafficking I'm all for it. I just doubt that law will have much to do with making prostitution legal.

Becuase they're unrelated. You can't base what would happen in America with what has happened in Amersterdam. We have entirely different police forces, regulation, etc.

Simulcast

09/30/10, 02:23 PM

No it doesn't. Those are separate things. As has been said here already, sex trafficking can still be illegal even if prostitution is legal.

It is forced prostitution. Many arguments for it's legalization include the prevention of this practice by stopping pimps from taking advantage of weak-willed and desperate women, so yes, we are talking about the same thing.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:24 PM

Give them the safety and legal backing to only have to do it for a few years if they are "forced into it" ... and keep the vast majority of the money in those cases as well. It's like saying someone is "forced" to work at McDonalds because poverty forced them into it. Most people don't want to work there either. If they choose that line of work - which the ones doing it are going to regardless of legality - we should give them the ability to do it safely.

Working as prositute for a day can be utterly degrading for a lifetime. Not a fair comparison to Mcdonalds, in my opinion.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:25 PM

Working as prositute for a day can be utterly degrading for a lifetime. Not a fair comparison to Mcdonalds, in my opinion.
Can be. Doesn't have to be. Matter of perspectives. Working at McDonalds for a day can be utterly degrading for a lifetime.

High-end prostitutes wouldn't say that ... some of them make six figures.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:26 PM

Can be. Doesn't have to be. Matter of perspectives. Working at McDonalds for a day can be utterly degrading for a lifetime.

I guess I just don't see how the two can be seriously compared. A bad day at Mcdonalds or having sex with someone for money because you can't afford food or shelter? Hmm.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:27 PM

Most women who are prostitutes don't want to be. Poverty forced them into it. How is making it legal going to help that?

What do you think would happen if prostitution was legal and a woman didn't want to be a prostitute? She could go to the police. Do you really think that if a woman said 'I don't want to be a prostitute', but whoever's running the brothel says, 'yes she does!' that the police are going to side with the brothel owner and make the woman work there?

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:27 PM

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:27 PM

I guess I just don't see how the two can be seriously compared. A bad day at Mcdonalds or having sex with someone for money because you can't afford food or shelter? Hmm.
Given you could arguably make a month's rent in one night ... I'd sell my body. You make it seem like everyone that is a prostitute has no other option and is doing this against their will. The point of legalization would be to make sure it's the woman's choice. Which is none of my business.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:29 PM

Working as prositute for a day can be utterly degrading for a lifetime. Not a fair comparison to Mcdonalds, in my opinion.

I'd much rather have sex for money than work at McDonald's. If I'm gonna be fucked, I'd at least like to orgasm.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:30 PM

What do you think would happen if prostitution was legal and a woman didn't want to be a prostitute? She could go to the police. Do you really think that if a woman said 'I don't want to be a prostitute', but whoever's running the brothel says, 'yes she does!' that the police are going to side with the brothel owner and make the woman work there?

If there is a law against sex trafficking now and the police can't stop it, how are they going to stop it if prostitution is legal? It'll just create loopholes and make these assholes rich.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:30 PM

It is forced prostitution. Many arguments for it's legalization include the prevention of this practice by stopping pimps from taking advantage of weak-willed and desperate women, so yes, we are talking about the same thing.
Forced prostitution is not prostitution. You're lumping one thing under 3 different labels.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:31 PM

Given you could arguably make a month's rent in one night ... I'd sell my body. You make it seem like everyone that is a prostitute has no other option and is doing this against their will. The point of legalization would be to make sure it's the woman's choice. Which is none of my business.

I just don't trust the legislation as much as you do.

Echo Park

09/30/10, 02:31 PM

McDonalds gets minimum wage. If someone like Halle Berry or JWOWW tuted themselves, i'm sure they can fetch hundreds or thousands for a 20minute job. If that was a legal option for a girl in need...

oops, nevermind, i'll see myself out.

mattmatumbo

09/30/10, 02:32 PM

High-end prostitutes wouldn't say that ... some of them make six figures.

What am I doing in college?

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:32 PM

If there is a law against sex trafficking now and the police can't stop it, how are they going to stop it if prostitution is legal? It'll just create loopholes and make these assholes rich.
Could give those involved a safety net of going to the authorities without fear of prosecution themselves. It'll create no more loophole than what already exists: as you said, it's already happening.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:32 PM

What am I doing in college?
Hoping to be able to afford one some day? :shrug:

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:33 PM

Simulcast

09/30/10, 02:33 PM

Forced prostitution is not prostitution. You're lumping one thing under 3 different labels.

No, but sex trafficking is forced prostitution. I didn't say prostitution was forced prostitution.

The discussion has centered on how to deal with the abuse of sex workers and the prevention of forced prostitution. Sex trafficking fits in this context.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:34 PM

Sex trafficking - 'Forced prostitution, also known as involuntary prostitution, is the act of performing sexual activity in exchange for money on a non-voluntary basis.'

Prostitution - 'Prostitution is the act or practice of providing sexual services to another person in return for payment. '

jessicalynn-xx

09/30/10, 02:34 PM

It is forced prostitution. Many arguments for it's legalization include the prevention of this practice by stopping pimps from taking advantage of weak-willed and desperate women, so yes, we are talking about the same thing.

It is my understanding that victims of sex trafficking don't get paid. How will making it illegal to pay for sex or get paid for sex affect an industry where that transaction does not take place?

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:34 PM

I just don't trust the legislation as much as you do.
You don't have to trust legislation ... the problems are already there, people are prostitutes, why not at least give them the same legal abilities as a porn star or office worker?

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:35 PM

Could give those involved a safety net of going to the authorities without fear of prosecution themselves. It'll create no more loophole than what already exists: as you said, it's already happening.

I agree with decriminalizing it, as I said earlier. Prostitutes in many cases are victims, I say punish the criminals running these things.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:35 PM

No, but sex trafficking is forced prostitution. I didn't say prostitution was forced prostitution.

The discussion has centered on how to deal with the abuse of sex workers and the prevention of forced prostitution. Sex trafficking fits in this context.
You said sex trafficking was prostitution. When it's just a form of it. The discussion is on prostitution as a whole.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:35 PM

If there is a law against sex trafficking now and the police can't stop it, how are they going to stop it if prostitution is legal? It'll just create loopholes and make these assholes rich.

For the same reason they can't stop the heroin trade; they will never stop illegal things completely. Legalizing prostitution would clean up that industry and stop those women from being criminals.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:36 PM

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:36 PM

You don't have to trust legislation ... the problems are already there, people are prostitutes, why not at least give them the same legal abilities as a porn star or office worker?

I'm afriad it will protect traffickers. If prostitution is legal there will be all kinds of semantical arguments in court and I'm afraid the justice system, with all its flaws, will fail.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:36 PM

I agree with decriminalizing it, as I said earlier. Prostitutes in many cases are victims, I say punish the criminals running these things.
Which should be done regardless of the legality of prostitution.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:38 PM

Which should be done regardless of the legality of prostitution.

Agreed.

Simulcast

09/30/10, 02:39 PM

It is my understanding that victims of sex trafficking don't get paid. How will making it illegal to pay for sex or get paid for sex affect an industry where that transaction does not take place?

Someone obviously get's paid for the sex. Sex traffickers don't just let you have a good time for free. Transactions take place.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:39 PM

I'm afriad it will protect traffickers. If prostitution is legal there will be all kinds of semantical arguments in court and I'm afraid the justice system, with all its flaws, will fail.
How? "Uh, were you forced to have sex?"

Yes.

Case closed. The argument you make is that legalizing it will mean sex trafficking will be legal or protected ... which is not the case.

And ... I'd rather have a few cases go to court and fail than none of them ever see court, and plenty go to court and succeed. But that's not the case, legalizing one doesn't legalize the other.

Again, the problems are already there, people are prostitutes, why not at least give them the same legal abilities as a porn star or office worker? It's never going to not exist. Too much demand. That's why I think they should be protected by the same rights as other "workers."

mattmatumbo

09/30/10, 02:43 PM

Hoping to be able to afford one some day? :shrug:

Oh right, it's always good to look at things the other way around haha.

Simulcast

09/30/10, 02:44 PM

You said sex trafficking was prostitution. When it's just a form of it. The discussion is on prostitution as a whole.

I did not. I just went over all of my posts. My focus from the beginning has been on the negative aspects of prostitution, i.e. forced prostitution and sex trafficking.

In any case, I agree with the decriminalization of it.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:44 PM

I'm afriad it will protect traffickers. If prostitution is legal there will be all kinds of semantical arguments in court and I'm afraid the justice system, with all its flaws, will fail.

It wouldn't. That makes no sense. This is like saying, 'if pot's legalized, crack dealers will be protected by the law!'

Someone obviously get's paid for the sex. Sex traffickers don't just let you have a good time for free. Transactions take place.

Yeah, the person running the sex trafficking gets paid, the woman is a sexual slave. The woman sees no money. If prostitution was legal, the woman would get 100% of the money, unless she worked out of a brothel, where part of that would go to the brothel.

Stop acting like sex trafficking and prostitution are the same thing. It's like comparing working on a farm to slavery; one's a personal choice, one is slavery.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:46 PM

I did not. I just went over all of my posts. My focus from the beginning has been on the negative aspects of prostitution, i.e. forced prostitution and sex trafficking.

In any case, I agree with the decriminalization of it.
And that's the point ... i.e. forced prostitution and sex trafficking ... are not called just "prostitution" ... they are their own things. With their own names.

When talking about legal prostitution you said:
People =/= animals. Nor do animals suffer in the way humans do in sex trafficking.

Were were talking about legal prostitution - not sex trafficking. You changed the topic.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:46 PM

How? "Uh, were you forced to have sex?"

Yes.

Case closed. The argument you make is that legalizing it will mean sex trafficking will be legal or protected ... which is not the case.

And ... I'd rather have a few cases go to court and fail than none of them ever see court, and plenty go to court and succeed. But that's not the case, legalizing one doesn't legalize the other.

Again, the problems are already there, people are prostitutes, why not at least give them the same legal abilities as a porn star or office worker? It's never going to not exist. Too much demand.

There is too much demand for it, you're right, but I honestly don't want to see people get into prostitution just because they need money. It is a permanant scar for too many people. So until the poverty problem is fixed, which I realize may be never, I don't want to see any hinderance on bringing down sex trafficking rings, which I believe that legalizing prostitution would hinder, because it has hindered it in other countries.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:48 PM

There is too much demand for it, you're right, but I honestly don't want to see people get into prostitution just because they need money. It is a permanant scar for too many people.

This makes no sense. I worked washing dishes when I was 22 because I needed money. That was fucking degrading too. Should dishwashing be outlawed?

So until the poverty problem is fixed, which I realize may be never, I don't want to see any hinderance on bringing down sex trafficking rings, which I believe that legalizing prostitution would hinder, because it has hindered it in other countries.

America. Is. Not. 'Other. Countries'.

jessicalynn-xx

09/30/10, 02:49 PM

Someone obviously get's paid for the sex. Sex traffickers don't just let you have a good time for free. Transactions take place.

Right but the ones having the sex are not the ones getting paid. I think that's pretty obviously exploitation; a clear distinction between sex trafficking and voluntary prostitution. I just don't think it's fair to lump everything together the way you're doing. There are clear distinctions to be made legally and practically.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:49 PM

There is too much demand for it, you're right, but I honestly don't want to see people get into prostitution just because they need money. It is a permanant scar for too many people. So until the poverty problem is fixed, which I realize may be never, I don't want to see any hinderance on bringing down sex trafficking rings, which I believe that legalizing prostitution would hinder, because it has hindered it in other countries.
People get into most jobs because they need money. I think that's a pretty universal thing. And by learning from other countries, we should be able to craft a law that doesn't hinder bringing down those rings. I don't believe we should restrict the workers rights, in any case, for any reason. Regardless of the job they're engaging in. Should we see what we can do to keep people out of those situations where this may arise? Absolutely. Should we protect those that make the choice to engage in them? I think that, also, is absolutely. They're working without the benefits awarded to anyone else who is employed -- I think that's wrong.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:51 PM

If a girl is forced into making a pornographic video, she'd go to the cops. I don't see how the same connection to legal prostitution vs. sex trafficking is hard to make.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:52 PM

This makes no sense. I worked washing dishes when I was 22 because I needed money. That was fucking degrading too. Should dishwashing be outlawed?

America. Is. Not. 'Other. Countries'.

What would make it different here?

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:54 PM

What would make it different here?
That we can craft the law to cover the loopholes we've learned from the missteps of other countries.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:54 PM

People get into most jobs because they need money. I think that's a pretty universal thing. And by learning from other countries, we should be able to craft a law that doesn't hinder bringing down those rings. I don't believe we should restrict the workers rights, in any case, for any reason. Regardless of the job they're engaging in. Should we see what we can do to keep people out of those situations where this may arise? Absolutely. Should we protect those that make the choice to engage in them? I think that, also, is absolutely. They're working without the benefits of any one else who is employed -- I think that's wrong.

I think you're downplaying the psychological damage that having sex because you need to survive can do to someone.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:56 PM

What would make it different here?

Our police force, our judicial system, the way we regulate other industries...

Just because Amersterdam hasn't got their shit together doesn't mean we wouldn't either.

Keeping it illegal helps no one, and instead turns people into criminals. Keeping it illegal doesn't stop sex trafficking. Making it legal protects those in the business, and there may still (shocker) be an underground sex trafficking market. I don't see why we wouldn't want to help those in the business because something else more sinister may be around no matter what.

As well, if cops could stop going after prostitutes who are doing it by their own choice, the cops could go after...wait for it...sex traffickers!

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:56 PM

If a girl is forced into making a pornographic video, she'd go to the cops. I don't see how the same connection to legal prostitution vs. sex trafficking is hard to make.

What stops girls who are forced into prostitution for the first time from going to the cops? Poverty.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:56 PM

I think you're downplaying the psychological damage that having sex because you need to survive can do to someone.

Then the girls won't do it. THEY CAN GO TO THE POLICE!!!

Holy shit.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 02:57 PM

I think you're downplaying the psychological damage that having sex because you need to survive can do to someone.
No, I think there most certainly is a damage for some... I don't think that means we should then also deny them basic employment rights as well. It's happening anyway. And it is their choice (which is what we need to make sure is true). And they should qualify for the same rights as someone working in any other psychological damaging (or not) field.

The bolded part was in reference to your "I honestly don't want to see people get into prostitution just because they need money" statement. Everyone needs money.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 02:58 PM

What stops girls who are forced into prostitution for the first time from going to the cops? Poverty.

I imagine the situation being illegal and the 'forced into it' thing probably stops them. They don't go to the cops for the same reason I don't go to the cops when my dealer shorts me on weed. You're fucked because it's illegal.

Again, you are blurring the very bold lines between choosing to have sex for money and being a sexual slave.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:59 PM

Our police force, our judicial system, the way we regulate other industries...

Just because Amersterdam hasn't got their shit together doesn't mean we wouldn't either.

Keeping it illegal helps no one, and instead turns people into criminals. Keeping it illegal doesn't stop sex trafficking. Making it legal protects those in the business, and there may still (shocker) be an underground sex trafficking market. I don't see why we wouldn't want to help those in the business because something else more sinister may be around no matter what.

As well, if cops could stop going after prostitutes who are doing it by their own choice, the cops could go after...wait for it...sex traffickers!

I think you're ignoring or not getting the reasons I don't want prostitution legalized. And it kind of seems like you're talking down to me, which is another hinderance to our discussion.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 02:59 PM

I imagine the situation being illegal and the 'forced into it' thing probably stops them. They don't go to the cops for the same reason I don't go to the cops when my dealer shorts me on weed. You're fucked because it's illegal.

Again, you are blurring the very bold lines between choosing to have sex for money and being a sexual slave.

It's not illegal to be forced to have sex with someone else. It's being a victim.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 03:00 PM

What stops girls who are forced into prostitution for the first time from going to the cops? Poverty.
How? They're not the ones making any money. They're just as poor if they go to the cops or don't. Don't follow this logic at all. Aren't they being stopped ... by the ones forcing them?

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 03:01 PM

It's not illegal to be forced to have sex with someone else. It's being a victim.
What?

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 03:01 PM

A girl choosing (or needing monetarily) to be a prostitute and ending up in seedy situations due to the inherent underground/illegal status of prostituion =/= being a sex slave.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 03:02 PM

A girl choosing (or needing monetarily) to be a prostitute and ending up in seedy situations due to the inherent underground/illegal status of prostituion =/= being a sex slave.

Who said it did?

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 03:03 PM

I think you're ignoring or not getting the reasons I don't want prostitution legalized. And it kind of seems like you're talking down to me, which is another hinderance to our discussion.

Then what reasons do you have for not wanting prostitution legalized. I'm pretty sure I understand your reasons, they just don't make sense.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 03:03 PM

What?

Poorly worded. Sorry.

jawstheme

09/30/10, 03:05 PM

I gotta go. Good discussion :-)

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 03:05 PM

Who said it did?

Ok. I need to back up a second here. The reason girls in sex trafficking don't go to the cops is because they are essentially slaves. The reason girls who are just prostitutes don't go to the cops when they are beaten, robbed or treated badly is because it's illegal.

Making prostitution legal is going to have no effect on people who were already cool with turning girls into sexual slaves.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 03:06 PM

I gotta go. Good discussion :-)

Sorry about talking down to you. I shouldn't have done that. My apolgies.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 03:08 PM

Simulcast

09/30/10, 03:09 PM

Ok. I need to back up a second here. The reason girls in sex trafficking don't go to the cops is because they are essentially slaves. The reason girls who are just prostitutes don't go to the cops when they are beaten, robbed or treated badly is because it's illegal.

Making prostitution legal is going to have no effect on people who were already cool with turning girls into sexual slaves.

Wait, so why does this prevent them from going to the police? Is it because their status as slaves prevents contact with the outside world? Honest question.

Sidenote: I understand why my insistence on sex trafficking was inappropriate for the thread topic. I still maintain that prostitution should be decriminalized and not legalized though. I liked your bit about the authorities pursuing the pimps instead of the women.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 03:10 PM

SEX TRAFFICKING FACT SHEET (http://www.acf.hhs.gov/trafficking/about/fact_sex.pdf)

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 03:10 PM

I don't care about anything besides the unfortunate reality that those who are working as prostitutes aren't afforded the same protection as other workers. You can't sue for back pay. You can't enforce contracts. Etc. etc.

I think that's wrong.

Agreed. You don't stop sex trafficking by making prostitution legal or illegal; but by legalizing prostitution (or at least decriminalizing it) you improve the lives of women in the business.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 03:11 PM

Wait, so why does this prevent them from going to the police? Is it because their status as slaves prevents contact with the outside world? Honest question.

Yes. They're not fucking around when they call it 'sexual slavery'.

Simulcast

09/30/10, 03:12 PM

Yes. They're not fucking around when they call it 'sexual slavery'.

Thanks, just wanted to clarify.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 03:16 PM

Thanks, just wanted to clarify.

That's the point we've been trying to make; making prostitution legal or decriminalized has no affect on sex trafficking, because it is slavery, and no American judicial system would allow that to fly, even with the precedence of legal prostitution.

Simulcast

09/30/10, 03:23 PM

That's the point we've been trying to make; making prostitution legal or decriminalized has no affect on sex trafficking, because it is slavery, and no American judicial system would allow that to fly, even with the precedence of legal prostitution.

Wouldn't it make a difference if authorities focused on breaking down sex trafficking as opposed to arresting prostitutes? My initial post was concerned with the promotion of a practice which has sex trafficking under it's umbrella. Hence my hesitation at legalization, but my acceptance of decriminalization. I realize I didn't make that clear at all, but thats what I was implying with the suffering part of it.

Agreed. No need to encourage a practice that brings suffering to so many.

Obviously not so clear, but that's what I meant.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 03:26 PM

Wouldn't it make a difference if authorities focused on breaking down sex trafficking as opposed to arresting prostitutes? My initial post was concerned with the promotion of a practice which has sex trafficking under it's umbrella. Hence my hesitation at legalization, but my acceptance of decriminalization. I realize I didn't make that clear at all, but thats what I was implying with the suffering part of it.

Obviously not so clear, but that's what I meant.

I see where you're coming from, but it's honestly the same as the difference between someone paying a maid and someone keeping a slave against their will. Sure, both of them would be cleaning the guys house, but one of them is illegal and one isn't. The same idea stands for legalization/decriminalization of prostitution vs. sex trafficking.

StephenYoung

09/30/10, 03:41 PM

Interesting career prospect for young Canadian teenagers growing up.

I wouldn't want it legalized simply because I wouldn't want my sister/daughter becoming a whore.

If your sister/daughter is going to become a whore, she'll do it legal or not. at least now she's safe(r)

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 03:51 PM

It'd be lovely if we could stop referring to them as 'whores' in here.

jessicalynn-xx

09/30/10, 06:01 PM

What stops girls who are forced into prostitution for the first time from going to the cops? Poverty.

No, what stops them from going to the cops is that prostitution is illegal. They have broken the law regardless of whether or not they were mistreated.

saysmydoctor

09/30/10, 06:22 PM

I've yet to read a legitimate argument as to why prostitution should be illegal in this thread.

caveBEAR

09/30/10, 06:44 PM

I've yet to read a legitimate argument as to why prostitution should be illegal in this thread.

'Morally reprehensible' not doing it for you, eh?

saysmydoctor

09/30/10, 06:53 PM

No, because I don't see it as morally reprehensible.

ghostyouare

09/30/10, 08:23 PM

Kozzy333

09/30/10, 08:24 PM

A large percent ofthe girls going into it will have been sexually abused before. I don't support retrauamtizing these "employees" on a daily basis regardless of what they want (more accurately, the only thing they know).

Source plox.

ghostyouare

09/30/10, 08:29 PM

Source plox.
http://www.theadvocacycenter.org/adv_abuse.html

I guess a lot of what I "know" comes from dealing with sex abuse survivors and talking with counselors and people working on their counseling degrees.

Here's this as well, but that's from just quick googling trying put source to facts so I have no idea how exact or accurate that information is. However, I wouldn't completely disregard it.
http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102206974.html

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 09:19 PM

ghostyouare

09/30/10, 09:40 PM

They're going to do it anyway, why not let them qualifiy for better health care - and get help for PTSD?
The idea of honestly getting help for PTSD for sexual abuse trauma while keeping the job of a prostitute is naive to say the least. The job would conflict with any sort of recovery. Also, "they're going to do it anyways" isn't the strongest argument.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 09:43 PM

The idea of honestly getting help for PTSD for sexual abuse trauma while keeping the job of a prostitute is naive to say the least. The job would conflict with any sort of recovery. Also, "they're going to do it anyways" isn't the strongest argument.

It's a fact. They're not going to stop working because it's illegal. They're out there right now. Why not do something toi protect them?

Naïve or not - it's better than the alternative. Which is nothing. Seems like we should be trying to help.

ghostyouare

09/30/10, 09:54 PM

It's a fact. They're not going to stop working because it's illegal. They're out there right now. Why not do something ti protect them?

Naïve or not - it's better than the alternative. Which is nothing.
I'm not ignorant enough to believe that if it's made illegal that it'll all go away but I'm sure employement opportunities increase when it's legalized and makes it more widespread. Condoning it isn't what I would think would be in the publics best interest. I just don't see the job creation worth the price of these girls souls and well being. And no, offerring better health insurance wont apply to these girl's psychological health.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 10:00 PM

I'm not ignorant enough to believe that if it's made illegal that it'll all go away but I'm sure employement opportunities increase when it's legalized and makes it more widespread. Condoning it isn't what I would think would be in the publics best interest. I just don't see the job creation worth the price of these girls souls and well being. And no, offerring better health insurance wont apply to these girl's psychological health.
Why is there an assumption that legalization will lead to an increase in prostitution? Furthermore, we give employment rights to strippers, porn stars, talk-show hosts, and other activities that contain a large percentage of abused. They still get rights.

ghostyouare

09/30/10, 10:14 PM

Why is there an assumption that legalization will lead to an increase in prostitution? Furthermore, we give employment rights to strippers, porn stars, talk-show hosts, and other activities that contain a large percentage of abused. They still get rights.
Do you think legalization would possibly decrease the population of prostitutes?

The general reason of why I don't support this isn't about restricting rights but about protecting those that can't protect themselves.

Jason Tate

09/30/10, 10:17 PM

Do you think legalization would possibly decrease the population of prostitutes?

The general reason of why I don't support this isn't about restricting rights but about protecting those that can't protect themselves.
I am unsure what it would do, my assumption is that it would force the market into a better equilibrium than under black market.

I think that's a dangerous precedent to set - and I'm not convinced every woman entering into that lifestyle can't protect themselves.

ghostyouare

09/30/10, 10:22 PM

I am unsure what it would do, my assumption is that it would force the market into a better equilibrium than under black market.

I think that's a dangerous precedent to set - and I'm not convinced every woman entering into that lifestyle can't protect themselves.
I tried to google it to see what the prostitution rate in nevada was like vs. other states but it wasn't too helpful.

And while I can concede that it would set a dangerous precedent and I probably would be on the other side of this argument for any other "profession"/ topic, I just don't think legalizing prostitution is the safest thing. I'm not saying the women in the "lifestyle" couldn't protect themselves, but I don't think the profession will attract the healthiest of employees.