Ole Dubbya--Anti-bush song

['hawk110G]

Just typed this up instead of doing my homework...hope you like it! Oh, and don't you dare steal it. I swear to god I will find you. Thanks!

Fallen people of an intelligent race
A country whose in everyone's face
When life is struck, and its burning down
The whole world seems to turn around

Foundations built upon hate and lies
A natoin falls within its lines
And who's the King of this ignorant place?
A man whos name is our disgrace

(1st Chorus)
Ole Dubbya, Ole Dubbya
Wave our stars and stripes
Tell us how we are all the bad snipes
You cannot rule, You cannot win
You wipe your face on the Iraqi napkin

Thats all you do is hide in fear
You don't speak up, all you do is hear
Talk about war, and you shudder in place
Get out of here, worthless crackcase

Not sure if I'll use this for this set for this song
{{Allowing 9-11 was mistake Number One
Starting a war was mistake Number Two
And now you want support from the U.S. of A.?
You'd better change your mind and just walk away.}}

(Repeat 1st Chorus)

You want us to fight in some pointless combat
And you respond with this when we ask where at?:
"Everywhere and anywhere, to spread our rules
To tell the world, we are the best toadstools!"

This part is slower, with more laughter in the words being sung:

(Second Chorus)
Ole Dubbya, Ole Dybbya
Waving our stars and stripes
I'm asking you now, Will you ever get it right?
You obviousley can't rule, and you never will win
So go and wipe your nose on FAILURE'S NAPKIN!!!!!

(Repeat 1st Chorus)

(Repeat 2nd Chorus)

[a speedo model]

This is bullshit. Sorry, but it is. All this says is you hate Bush and....that's it. You don't offer any reason for your belief. You just blame him, blame him and make up bullshit (he allowed 911?). You're 15 and this reads like a 15 year old's attempt at being political. Lame.

[black rose]

i read one verse and...blah.
bad rhyming.
i agree with everything speedo said.

[OveriseFan]

Please go away.

Thank You.

[IAmAmazing]

:lol: man, there is more and more of these people everyday

[thatwasamoment]

did you really take the time and money to copyright this?

['hawk110G]

Hmm..thanks for the support guys. Really appreciate it. And no I won't go away OveriseFan, I believe I'm here to stay. Thanks anyway, hopefully you all will like future songs.

~Hayley

[a speedo model]

As long as they aren't shitty attempts at sounding political. I'm sorry but this will be hard to recover from in my eyes.

[black rose]

As long as they aren't shitty attempts at sounding political. I'm sorry but this will be hard to recover from in my eyes.word.

anyone can say "i hate bush."
believe me, i've said it my fair share of times.
but to write a song, you have to say more than just stating the obvious.

use metaphors, similies etc.

[a speedo model]

I like Bush. :-)

[black rose]

I like Bush. :-)i'm very, very sorry about that.

[a speedo model]

:shrug: He's done nothing to make me think otherwise.

['hawk110G]

Kewl...I'll keep the metaphor, similies idea in mind. This was a first attempt at a more political approach..obviousley it didn't work out to well. I will definatly get better though, is there anything you guys did like about it? Or do you have any other tips/suggestoins for future attempts? :)

[thatwasamoment]

:shrug: He's done nothing to make me think otherwise.
seriously?

[a speedo model]

Kewl...I'll keep the metaphor, similies idea in mind. This was a first attempt at a more political approach..obviousley it didn't work out to well. I will definatly get better though, is there anything you guys did like about it? Or do you have any other tips/suggestoins for future attempts? :)
I'll reread it and highlight any parts I liked...
seriously?
Yes, I'm serious.

[a speedo model]

Hmmm..the rhyme scheme is alright, you stick to it pretty well without it sounding forced, usually. A couple times it does, but not consistently.

[thatwasamoment]

I'll reread it and highlight any parts I liked...

Yes, I'm serious.
not one of these does it for you?

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20041108/facts

[a speedo model]

not one of these does it for you?

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20041108/facts
Nope, not one. Sure there are a few things that he has done that I may not agree with or think should have been done differently. But none of them make me hate him or lose respect for him. Or change the fact that I agree with on the rest of his decisions.

['hawk110G]

Thanks..maybe i'll rewrite it and post it up here and you can see what you think?

[a speedo model]

Good idea.


But I still disagree with it.

[black rose]

one of these days speedo, i will get you to change your mind.
i'm positive of it.

[a speedo model]

Oh, I'd love to see you try.

[thatwasamoment]

that sucks man.

[a speedo model]

What sucks? My political opinion? Thank you.

[thatwasamoment]

my opinion of your political opinion

[ArTkY_]

This is fucking terrible. Please crawl under a Bush and die where no one can see you. (Like the pun? I'm such an awesome writer.)

Josiah, I despise Bush's decisions, but you're entitled to your opinion. His decision making causes raids in the Middle East and kills thousands of Muslims. Therefore I'm entitled to be bitter. Not to mention our soldiers are there for a lost cuase.

[a speedo model]

This is fucking terrible. Please crawl under a Bush and die where no one can see you. (Like the pun? I'm such an awesome writer.)

Josiah, I despise Bush's decisions, but you're entitled to your opinion. His decision making causes raids in the Middle East and kills thousands of Muslims. Therefore I'm entitled to be bitter. Not to mention our soldiers are there for a lost cuase.
Nice pun. :-)

I support the decision to go into Iraq, I felt given the reports and information we had it was the right decision. I also believe that once we got there and saw the cruel dictatorship in place, we had a duty to do something about it.

Also, there is evidense that says Sadam had trained and armed Al-Qaida. Which is an act of war in and of itself.

[ArTkY_]

Nice pun. :-)

I support the decision to go into Iraq, I felt given the reports and information we had it was the right decision. I also believe that once we got there and saw the cruel dictatorship in place, we had a duty to do something about it.

Also, there is evidense that says Sadam had trained and armed Al-Qaida. Which is an act of war in and of itself.
I disagree. Sad but true, the civilians there were better off with Saddam. And we don't even have them on our side.

This may be true, but many reports say otherwise.

[a speedo model]

I disagree. Sad but true, the civilians there were better off with Saddam. And we don't even have them on our side.

This may be true, but many reports say otherwise.
I don't think you can say they're not on our side. Sure, every time a small boy throws a stone at a soldier there's a photographer to take a picture and every liberal magazine has it on its cover. But they never report how they now have running there now, they never show the countless photo's of soldiers being welcomed with open arms and smiles. The freedom they now have was welcome.

I'm not saying some bad choices haven't been made, cause they're have been. And I'm sure some of the citizens don't want us there. But you cannot say the majority would rather be under the leadership of murdering dictator.

[thatwasamoment]

I don't think you can say they're not on our side. Sure, every time a small boy throws a stone at a soldier there's a photographer to take a picture and every liberal magazine has it on its cover. But they never report how they now have running there now, they never show the countless photo's of soldiers being welcomed with open arms and smiles. The freedom they now have was welcome.

I'm not saying some bad choices haven't been made, cause they're have been. And I'm sure some of the citizens don't want us there. But you cannot say the majority would rather be under the leadership of murdering dictator.
and you would know cause you've been there right? or cause rush limbaguh told you so.

everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but you gotta open your eyes and not listen to what your church tells you to think and admit bush is a screw up.

[black rose]

i really like political debates when they aren't so heated and vicious, like this one is very good.

i will post my long opinion later, but i have to study for exams right now.

[a speedo model]

and you would know cause you've been there right? or cause rush limbaguh told you so.

everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but you gotta open your eyes and not listen to what your church tells you to think and admit bush is a screw up.
You're telling me they're happy with the guy who slaughtered hundred if not thousands of civilians? Who tortured, mutilated and murdered his own people?

I have never said Bush hasn't made mistakes, he is human. BUT I believe he has made the right decisions at the right time. He's better then a liberal puppet like Kerry in office.

[black rose]

You're telling me they're happy with the guy who slaughtered hundred if not thousands of civilians? Who tortured, mutilated and murdered his own people?

I have never said Bush hasn't made mistakes, he is human. BUT I believe he has made the right decisions at the right time. He's better then a liberal puppet like Kerry in office.well hussain is human too, he just makes mistakes, that's all. :-|

[a speedo model]

well hussain is human too, he just makes mistakes, that's all. :-|
You're connecting the two is illogical.

[black rose]

You're connecting the two is illogical.not really.

[OveriseFan]

not really.

Yes it is...

I hate to say it: But your debate holds no weight really...

Do some more research and come back. Yes, mistakes were made; But comparing Bush and Hussein? Give me a break...

Hussein killed innocent people because of their religious beliefs. Bush started a war (whether you believe it unprovoked or not.) against an evil tyrant.

[OveriseFan]

and you would know cause you've been there right? or cause rush limbaguh told you so.

everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but you gotta open your eyes and not listen to what your church tells you to think and admit bush is a screw up.

Oh please...

hahahaha.

Don't make this religious, please.

I'm staying out of this debate now...

[black rose]

Yes it is...

I hate to say it: But your debate holds no weight really...

Do some more research and come back. Yes, mistakes were made; But comparing Bush and Hussein? Give me a break...

Hussein killed innocent people because of their religious beliefs. Bush started a war (whether you believe it unprovoked or not.) against an evil tyrant.i meant it in the way that bush and hussein killed innocent people, whether directly or not. people are fighting for a war that should have never exsisted in my eyes. after the troops are pulled out, whenever that is, the kurds, shiites, and sunnis are going to go back to fighting like they have forever. we can't stop that age old tradition of hatred.

[black rose]

Oh please...

hahahaha.

Don't make this religious, please.

I'm staying out of this debate now...he can make this whatever he wants to make it.
he can put his opinion out there if he wishes.

[a speedo model]

i meant it in the way that bush and hussein killed innocent people, whether directly or not. people are fighting for a war that should have never exsisted in my eyes. after the troops are pulled out, whenever that is, the kurds, shiites, and sunnis are going to go back to fighting like they have forever. we can't stop that age old tradition of hatred.
Again, you're being illogical. Bush is not responsible for any of the soldiers deaths. You may have forgotten so I'll remind you: We're at war. Soldiers die at war, whether you agree with it or not please be respectful and stop putting trying to put the blood on people's hands.

Bush sent troops into a country run by a dictator who was murdering innocent people. Some soldiers have died, yes, but they were not drafted they signed up for it. I don't see how you can compare a soldier giving his life for a belief and an innocent civilian being butchered. It makes no sense.

[ArTkY_]

I don't think you can say they're not on our side. Sure, every time a small boy throws a stone at a soldier there's a photographer to take a picture and every liberal magazine has it on its cover. But they never report how they now have running there now, they never show the countless photo's of soldiers being welcomed with open arms and smiles. The freedom they now have was welcome.

I'm not saying some bad choices haven't been made, cause they're have been. And I'm sure some of the citizens don't want us there. But you cannot say the majority would rather be under the leadership of murdering dictator.
Look, my good sir. I watch practically every news channel in the world, Arab news channels, Indian news channels, and American news channels, and I cannot help but notice these things. The freedom they enjoy is at the cost of at least 100,000 civilian deaths.

I'm sure that the majority would have preferred no one would have come in the first place. And also, I don't enjoy the spin the media puts on the actions of the militants in Iraq. Technically they're soldiers.

[black rose]

Again, you're being illogical. Bush is not responsible for any of the soldiers deaths. You may have forgotten so I'll remind you: We're at war. Soldiers die at war, whether you agree with it or not please be respectful and stop putting trying to put the blood on people's hands.

Bush sent troops into a country run by a dictator who was murdering innocent people. Some soldiers have died, yes, but they were not drafted they signed up for it. I don't see how you can compare a soldier giving his life for a belief and an innocent civilian being butchered. It makes no sense.okay so let me word this differently, it probably came out the wrong way last time. yes, hussain was an evil dictator that needed to be stopped, and i can see why the US would want to be a part of that. But after he was caught and was put on trial, and now convicted, WHAT IS THE POINT OF STAYING THERE? when we pull out they are just going to fight again, ask anyone. it's age old what these people do to each other, and i don't believe we can stop it.

i believe we're done in iraq. i also believe that GWB should get his head out of his ass for thinking that we need to stay there for some reason.

i'm sorry if i was disrespectful in any way, i didn't mean to be. but if i'm going to be respectful of you, please do the same for me. the bolded part is really un-necessary, i understand we're at war, thanks.

[thatwasamoment]

Oh please...

hahahaha.

Don't make this religious, please.

I'm staying out of this debate now...
its obvious he's a christian conservative. if you've been to a christian church when politics comes up, you would notice that they play the high and all mighty card, and like to think they are always right.

which is why its so hard to argue with them in the first place.


and i also know iraq was alot more stable when saddam was in power. they had their routines, and their way of life, and we fucked that up. we disbanded their army, and now we're expecting them to clean up the country that we wrecked.

saddam being a dictator, kept the law in order. now its complete chaos.

and now we're stuck in a place we shouldnt be and we are definitely not welcomed.


dont take my word for it, ask my dad whos in Iraq (who is a conservative) or my brother in the navy intelligence, or my sister whos an arabic translator for the cia.

or just watch sky news or bbc news.

[ChasityUndead]

I love how everyone is so quick to criticize,
but if you were in his shoes, what would you do?

What's done is done, and he's doing the best he can
right now with the circumstances, and so far no ones
come up with any better idea. Im not saying I agree
with his desicions but every one wants to pull
out and just leave Iraq, but if you were to think rationally,
we came in there and tore apart their goverment, and
lifestyles.. We have to finish what we started..
Its a no win situation.
So everyone should get off his ass, or atleast
till you come up with a better plan.

How exactly does this affect most of you anyways?

You are immature and uneducated.

All you know is what is fed to you.

[black rose]

[quote=ChasityUndead;5102368]I love how everyone is so quick to criticize,
but if you were in his shoes, what would you do?quote]so quick to criticize, hmm? well i believe you did the same to us. if i were in george's shoes, what would i do? well i would do most of the things he isn't doing. but than again, i disagree with him on more issues than just this war.

[fifpb99]

not one of these does it for you?

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20041108/facts

Sources: Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/02933,101061,00.html)

Thats where it lost me.

[de la sympathie]

Very poorly written and force-fed. Ridiculously shallowminded and cliched. Any fool can say "I hate Bush" boldface unsupported by any facts or figures, which is what you did. Anti-war songs aren't helping anybody. It's not going to change anybody's mind, and it certainly isn't going to improve my day. Imbeciles like you just make me want to crawl under a rock and die.

I'd like to say that you should keep trying, but in this case you need to grow up before you do anything else.

[de la sympathie]

okay so let me word this differently, it probably came out the wrong way last time. yes, hussain was an evil dictator that needed to be stopped, and i can see why the US would want to be a part of that. But after he was caught and was put on trial, and now convicted, WHAT IS THE POINT OF STAYING THERE? when we pull out they are just going to fight again, ask anyone. it's age old what these people do to each other, and i don't believe we can stop it.

i believe we're done in iraq. i also believe that GWB should get his head out of his ass for thinking that we need to stay there for some reason.

i'm sorry if i was disrespectful in any way, i didn't mean to be. but if i'm going to be respectful of you, please do the same for me. the bolded part is really un-necessary, i understand we're at war, thanks.

The "point of staying there" is that now we have to clean up. Iraq is in turmoil, partially our fault, and hundreds of thousands of innocents are dead and dying. I feel that while we're there, we might as well attempt to clean up the country that we've been demolishing. It's immature to even think that Bush should "pull out of this war right now!" because it would take a very long time for the soldiers to leave because we have so many, and then when they finally did, it could cause world problems. Such as a worse rap for the US, and possibly a battle stretching over more borders than the ones that are going on now.

[suddenxsilence]

I'm all for making a statment but noone really wants to hear a song as impersonal as this... unless it is country music. they can get away with the listener not being able to connect to their personal emotion.... if that makes any sense. it sounded a lot better in my head.... oh well. this is kinda crap... just so you know.

[black rose]

The "point of staying there" is that now we have to clean up. Iraq is in turmoil, partially our fault, and hundreds of thousands of innocents are dead and dying. I feel that while we're there, we might as well attempt to clean up the country that we've been demolishing. It's immature to even think that Bush should "pull out of this war right now!" because it would take a very long time for the soldiers to leave because we have so many, and then when they finally did, it could cause world problems. Such as a worse rap for the US, and possibly a battle stretching over more borders than the ones that are going on now.okay i can see your point, but i don't understand why it's the US's problem. yes, we have the biggest military, yes we are the most powerful nation, but why don't some other major countries step in. maybe i wouldn't mind this as much if we weren't the only major country caring. i stand by my opinion that we need to get out, whether that is very soon or not very soon.

[thatwasamoment]

The "point of staying there" is that now we have to clean up. Iraq is in turmoil, partially our fault, and hundreds of thousands of innocents are dead and dying. I feel that while we're there, we might as well attempt to clean up the country that we've been demolishing. It's immature to even think that Bush should "pull out of this war right now!" because it would take a very long time for the soldiers to leave because we have so many, and then when they finally did, it could cause world problems. Such as a worse rap for the US, and possibly a battle stretching over more borders than the ones that are going on now.
i think the point shes trying to make is that the turmoil will never end. if anything, it will only increase, as it has.

and that we are occupying a country that doesnt want to be occupied. trying to force a democracy on a country that isnt ready for it. and quite frankly, ran better with a dictatorship.

and can we ever "win" this war? how do you define winning.

[black rose]

i think the point shes trying to make is that the turmoil will never end. if anything, it will only increase, as it has.

and that we are occupying a country that doesnt want to be occupied. trying to force a democracy on a country that isnt ready for it. and quite frankly, ran better with a dictatorship.

and can we ever "win" this war? how do you define winning.thank you, that is exactly what i was trying to say. they've never had a democracy, they aren't ready for it now, who knows if they ever will be?

[ArTkY_]

Black rose, while I disagree with going there, we really have to stay.

[black rose]

Black rose, while I disagree with going there, we really have to stay.but for how long? a couple of months, a year, a couple of years?

[de la sympathie]

i think the point shes trying to make is that the turmoil will never end. if anything, it will only increase, as it has.

and that we are occupying a country that doesnt want to be occupied. trying to force a democracy on a country that isnt ready for it. and quite frankly, ran better with a dictatorship.

and can we ever "win" this war? how do you define winning.

I never said I didn't disagree with going to war with them in the first place. AND I never said anything about "winning". This isn't our war to win. But if we LEAVE, right now, it's just going to cause more problems.

The dictatorship is gone now, so what do we do? Leave Iraq at war, and let the batlles expand over its borders even farther than now?

[de la sympathie]

okay i can see your point, but i don't understand why it's the US's problem. yes, we have the biggest military, yes we are the most powerful nation, but why don't some other major countries step in. maybe i wouldn't mind this as much if we weren't the only major country caring. i stand by my opinion that we need to get out, whether that is very soon or not very soon.

You're right. It wasn't our problem before. But it is our problem now. And as it is, we were and still are the only 'majour' country willing to jump in. No, we shouldn't have. But we did, and now we have to manage our damage - and theirs. You shuold think about why you're saying these things a little bit more.

[de la sympathie]

thank you, that is exactly what i was trying to say. they've never had a democracy, they aren't ready for it now, who knows if they ever will be?

No, it isn't what you were "trying to say", because otherwise you would have said it outright. Right now, they're leaderless and floundering. If we leave them, what would happen. If we don't work out an agreement, what else? While I don't agree that this democracy should be forced upon them, I'd like to hope that we can come up with a positive plan for the eventual presidency (or other).

[black rose]

No, it isn't what you were "trying to say", because otherwise you would have said it outright. Right now, they're leaderless and floundering. If we leave them, what would happen. If we don't work out an agreement, what else? While I don't agree that this democracy should be forced upon them, I'd like to hope that we can come up with a positive plan for the eventual presidency (or other).yes it was, he worded it differently than i did. if not democracy, what is your amazing plan?

[de la sympathie]

yes it was, he worded it differently than i did. if not democracy, what is your amazing plan?

I never claimed to have a plan. I said I hoped we could come to some sort of agreement, and they could have a stable government, democracy or - hey! - maybe another dictator. Because it isn't really our problem to solve, but it is our duty to help clean up what we threw ourselves so recklessly into. Whatever they may choose, so be it, but we're in it for the long haul now, so we've just gotta suck it up.

[a speedo model]

okay so let me word this differently, it probably came out the wrong way last time. yes, hussain was an evil dictator that needed to be stopped, and i can see why the US would want to be a part of that. But after he was caught and was put on trial, and now convicted, WHAT IS THE POINT OF STAYING THERE? when we pull out they are just going to fight again, ask anyone. it's age old what these people do to each other, and i don't believe we can stop it.

i believe we're done in iraq. i also believe that GWB should get his head out of his ass for thinking that we need to stay there for some reason.

i'm sorry if i was disrespectful in any way, i didn't mean to be. but if i'm going to be respectful of you, please do the same for me. the bolded part is really un-necessary, i understand we're at war, thanks.
We cannot simply pull out. Even the Democrats understand this. You cannot go into a country, remove a dictator from power, and then leave. All his troops and supporters are still there. Before we leave, they want to make sure the same thing doesn't happen.

And I'm sorry I wasn't trying to be disrespectful with my comment. I was simply pointing out that in war there are deaths. You were blaming the deaths of the soldiers on Bush which is ridiculous.

[ArTkY_]

Reply to me, Josiah!

[a speedo model]

Look, my good sir. I watch practically every news channel in the world, Arab news channels, Indian news channels, and American news channels, and I cannot help but notice these things. The freedom they enjoy is at the cost of at least 100,000 civilian deaths.

I'm sure that the majority would have preferred no one would have come in the first place. And also, I don't enjoy the spin the media puts on the actions of the militants in Iraq. Technically they're soldiers.
I understand there are civilian deaths, but I don't see why this means they don't deserve freedom? Civilians have been accidently killed by our soldiers, sadly that is probably true. Casualties happen, I don't believe that just because there have been innocent lives lost that the purpose is tainted.

It's impossible for me to sit here and say whether they want us there or not. But I do believe that they did not want to be under Sadam's rule and I do believe that they are happier he is gone.

[a speedo model]

Reply to me, Josiah!
There.

[thatwasamoment]

we can all agree that we've got to stay and fix our mess.

its just a shame because we dug too deep of a hole.

there wont be stability in iraq for a very long time. and we wont be leaving for a very long time.

bush was so eager to invade iraq, im not sure it crossed his mind about what happens after the invasion and occupation.

and now no one has a plan.

[ArTkY_]

I understand there are civilian deaths, but I don't see why this means they don't deserve freedom? Civilians have been accidently killed by our soldiers, sadly that is probably true. Casualties happen, I don't believe that just because there have been innocent lives lost that the purpose is tainted.

It's impossible for me to sit here and say whether they want us there or not. But I do believe that they did not want to be under Sadam's rule and I do believe that they are happier he is gone.
The cost of civilian lives has been way too high. I could make this argument forever. I believe it is due to careless strategies used by the military, such as tactics for the bomber plans.

We could argue about this forever and still never get anywhere.
There.
Swt.

[a speedo model]

The cost of civilian lives has been way too high. I could make this argument forever. I believe it is due to careless strategies used by the military, such as tactics for the bomber plans.

We could argue about this forever and still never get anywhere.

Swt.
I understand what you mean. I agree poor military decisions have been made, costing innocent's deaths, which is a tragedy.

I agree.

[ArTkY_]

I understand what you mean. I agree poor military decisions have been made, costing innocent's deaths, which is a tragedy.

I agree.
Agree to disagree?

[a speedo model]

Agree to disagree?
Okay :-)

[OveriseFan]

This entire 'debate' has been pretty much bullshit... (By bullshit I mean we can't resolve it.)

And to Blackrose: I know this is old, but don't ever assume someone is something (Clearly Josiah is a Christian conservative?)

Maybe he is, but for all you know, he could be a Buddhist liberal. Who knows? And does it make a difference?

Even if he is Christian, Josiah(and most people) are smart enough to look at the facts rather than believe what a priest tells them. Because guess what? Priests can make mistakes too.

[a speedo model]

This entire 'debate' has been pretty much bullshit... (By bullshit I mean we can't resolve it.)

And to Blackrose: I know this is old, but don't ever assume someone is something (Clearly Josiah is a Christian conservative?)

Maybe he is, but for all you know, he could be a Buddhist liberal. Who knows? And does it make a difference?

Even if he is Christian, Josiah(and most people) are smart enough to look at the facts rather than believe what a priest tells them. Because guess what? Priests can make mistakes too.
Thank you, James.

[OveriseFan]

Thank you, James.

I gotcha back, yo.

[a speedo model]

I gotcha back, yo.
:-)

[black rose]

This entire 'debate' has been pretty much bullshit... (By bullshit I mean we can't resolve it.)

And to Blackrose: I know this is old, but don't ever assume someone is something (Clearly Josiah is a Christian conservative?)

Maybe he is, but for all you know, he could be a Buddhist liberal. Who knows? And does it make a difference?

Even if he is Christian, Josiah(and most people) are smart enough to look at the facts rather than believe what a priest tells them. Because guess what? Priests can make mistakes too.i never said that josiah was a christian conservative. it was the other person, thatwasthemoment or whatever. it wasn't me.