So true

[WithStamin]

Click (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/walterwilliams/printww20030702.shtml)
Affirmative action is racism and it even hurts who it's supossed to help.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Click (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/walterwilliams/printww20030702.shtml)
Affirmative action is racism and it even hurts who it's supossed to help.

Ok, two things, I don't know who Walter Williams is, he seems intelligent, but that was VERY slanted. That being said I agree that perhaps affrimitave action needs to be re-assessed. It was actually begun with very noble intentions, to prevent racism in hiring practices. But it's beginning to become absurd in it's misuse.

What I pretty much gathered from the article is this, our schools are horrid. Absolutely horrid. Thank tax cuts for that. Period. With every tax cut we pass a little more money escapes from the funding for public schooling. This is part of the reason our urban schools are so very poor, they have no money.

I also found the way the information was presented to be almost racist. The author of the article gave the schools large black and latino populations as the reason for the high crime rates and low average scores, never drawing into account the fact that the area was poor and the schools underfunded.

Overall, I think affrimative actions needs to be re-assessed. But I also think that when it was instituted, it was instituted for the right reasons, to give minorities equal oppurtunities.

[NOFXdesendents5]

How the fuck is giving black and hispanic students an instant leg up over whites because of their skin not racist?

I am not trying to start anything by saying this, but, if the minorties worked hard anyway, they wouldn't need "affirmitive action".

[WithStamin]

Exactly. Whatever happened to "Every man is created equal"? If you give someone an advantage because of the color of their skin, which they are born with, they defies our Founding Father's wishes.

[BustaNutz]

That's true, and I said it's gone too far. But if you allow admissions offices to pick whoever they want, and they only want to pick whites, that's also racist. That's what they had hoped to prevent. I had a problem with that article because he said schools with larger latino and black populations are generally worse and have more violence, and didn't add that they are also usually in inter-city areas where school is not really seen as important so much as staying alive and trying to eat is.

[The Nephilm]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
How the fuck is giving black and hispanic students an instant leg up over whites because of their skin not racist?

I am not trying to start anything by saying this, but, if the minorties worked hard anyway, they wouldn't need "affirmitive action".

Because whites are given a "leg up" everywhere in this country... be it economically, politically, or domestically, whites are given countless advantages over minorities.

I think affirmitive action is a good idea, but it's quixotic because it will never actually balance admissions in a good way.

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
Because whites are given a "leg up" everywhere in this country... be it economically, politically, or domestically, whites are given countless advantages over minorities.
And what "leg up" is that? The government should be colorblind. The only reason minorities still need affirmative action is because they've been catered to so that they don't have to achieve.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by WithStamin
And what "leg up" is that? The government should be colorblind. The only reason minorities still need affirmative action is because they've been catered to so that they don't have to achieve.

It also doesn't help that until the civil rights movement of the 60's we had segregation and Black weren't even given a fraction of the same oppurtunity as whites. It's difficult to pull yourself up in 40 years. You tend to forget that.

[The Nephilm]

Originally posted by WithStamin
And what "leg up" is that? The government should be colorblind. The only reason minorities still need affirmative action is because they've been catered to so that they don't have to achieve.

Better education, better jobs, healthcare, opportunities, etc. etc. etc.

Tell me something. How many Fortune 500 CEO's grew up in Compton with 8 siblings and a single mother earning $10,000 a year???

Quit your racist bull shit. Minorities are discriminated in this country today. It isn't as drastic as pre-1960's segregationist society, but it is a form of unconscious racism that is exhibited by american citizens today. You have said on many ocasions that blacks and hispanics are criminals are the greatest causes of social unrest in this country. Why not cut holes in your bed sheets and go burn a cross???

[NOFXdesendents5]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
It also doesn't help that until the civil rights movement of the 60's we had segregation and Black weren't even given a fraction of the same oppurtunity as whites. It's difficult to pull yourself up in 40 years. You tend to forget that.

My grandfather immigrated to the US from Argentina in the 30s and immediatley got him set up so I don't think you can say that.

The Irish, Italian and Jewish people met predujdeces (sp?) when they came to America to so generational equality can't be given as an example.

Whites don't have anymore advantages. If you help a white person these days its fucking off with your head. Affirmitive Action is racism no matter what you think or say or tell yourself about it.

Your helping a group of people because of their skin tones. End of the motherfucking story.

[Ronin]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
My grandfather immigrated to the US from Argentina in the 30s and immediatley got him set up so I don't think you can say that.

The Irish, Italian and Jewish people met predujdeces (sp?) when they came to America to so generational equality can't be given as an example.

Whites don't have anymore advantages. If you help a white person these days its fucking off with your head. Affirmitive Action is racism no matter what you think or say or tell yourself about it.

Your helping a group of people because of their skin tones. End of the motherfucking story.

Did your grandfather find it easy to do well for himself? Probably not, it probably took a lot of hard work and a little luck.

You can't totally compare the situation of European settlers to the situation of the slaves. There are some parallels yes, but it's not so black and white, or the "end of the motherfucking story" as you put it. It's a little more complicated than that.

Whites do still have advantages. The average family income for a white family is higher than the average family income for a black family. That's an advantage in a capitalist society.

Affirmative action isn't the answer. NOBODY on here will say that it is, but what some of us are saying is that SOMETHING needs to be done. Doing nothing and hoping for racism and prejudice to resolve themselves is futile, it just won't happen.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
My grandfather immigrated to the US from Argentina in the 30s and immediatley got him set up so I don't think you can say that.

The Irish, Italian and Jewish people met predujdeces (sp?) when they came to America to so generational equality can't be given as an example.

Whites don't have anymore advantages. If you help a white person these days its fucking off with your head. Affirmitive Action is racism no matter what you think or say or tell yourself about it.

Your helping a group of people because of their skin tones. End of the motherfucking story.

We're helping a group of people that until the 60's weren't allowed to eat in the same restaraunts as us. Are you kidding me. Immigrants had it hard, but they made a conscious choice to come here. Black's didn't and were openly discriminated agaisnt, that ended largely in the sixties but to this day still continues to some extent. You're telling me that for hundreds you years you can segregates black and whites and give blacks little to no education, no financial aid and not hire them for jobs, then in the course of forty years expect them to rectify it? NO! If anyone deserves help it's the african-american community.

And end of the motherfucking story? Nice try, but no. You're point, aside from being illconceived and typically close-minded was also completely ignorant of the fact that black's are financially and educationally leagues behind the white community due largely in part to the poverty and strife caused by our formerly segregationist society.

[NOFXdesendents5]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
And end of the motherfucking story? Nice try, but no. You're point, aside from being illconceived and typically close-minded...


If you understood how I phrased, I think you would get what I meant a little better so I'll do this over.

I meant that : No matter how you think over this issue, it still means that you are giving something to someone because of their skin color. Maybe I could of wrote The bottom line is_____ in front of it or something cause I wasn't trying to resolve the problem, I was trying to get people to understand my point and what this is about.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
If you understood how I phrased, I think you would get what I meant a little better so I'll do this over.

I meant that : No matter how you think over this issue, it still means that you are giving something to someone because of their skin color. Maybe I could of wrote The bottom line is_____ in front of it or something cause I wasn't trying to resolve the problem, I was trying to get people to understand my point and what this is about.

Point taken, my point was to call into account the reasons for it and it makes some sense. I never said that affirmative action was the solution, but I think it was put into action for the right reasons.

[lessthankate]

Affirmative Action is unecessary. It just causes even more racism. I agree with WithStamin that the government should be colorblind.

[evil zach]

and what do you intend to do about everybody else who isn't? [colour blind] I don't nessesarily support afermative action, but one must take into acount that blacks have repressed for 400 years. Expecting the problems caused by the repression to be solved in 40 years is naive. While afermative action isn't nessesarily the answer, something needs to be done to stop racist hireing practices , acceptence based on race at universityies, etc.