cold pizza

[selftitled85]

just picked vince young as rookie of the year. bullshit.

vince young has only played 4 games well. the season is 16 games. how the hell can you pick young over colston in no? or the returner from the bears?

[tambo41187]

not to mention he sucks as does that show.

[tambo41187]

hester for the bears, or colston deserves it.

[thejetstolehome]

colston should get it despite my hofstra pride. pun very much intended.

[The Matt Kaufman]

:appl:

[dekdog11]

young is 6-4 as a starter right now...if he finishes like 8-5 i dont see how you can not give it to him. say what you want about his rating...but 8-5 on a team like the titans is fucking impressive.

as of now i'd give it to colston though.
and i dont see how you can give to hester (i'm a canes fan and i love the guy) but all he does is return kicks. he may keep them in games and all that good stuff with his returns, but i think it needs to go to a guy that is constantly in the game.

[LeftWideOpen]

i'll give it to Hester. If you arent going to recognize special teams players, even if they break records, then whats the point of having them?

colston wouldnt be a bad choice either.

[selftitled85]

i think colston deserves it by far. he took over the spot that stallworth had and has made the transition literally painless.

[make_this_hurt]

1. Hester/Colston.
2. Bush.
3. Addai.
4. Young.

[preppyak]

hester for the bears, or colston deserves it.
colston should get it despite my hofstra pride. pun very much intended.
1. Hester/Colston.
2. Bush.
3. Addai.
4. Young.
Yep...Yep...and Yep.

Vince Young has more INT's (11) than TDs (10). He has a 65.7 passer rating. Statistically, he's basically on par with Gradkowski...who I haven't heard in any of these debates for a reason.

It's impressive how he's lead his teams to win, but, it's not something like Colston or Hester, where he is atop the league in his category (Colston is 15th in receiving yards, even with missing two games...Hester obviously with his returns).

It's very much an individual award, and though Young's contributions to his team have been impressive, they aren't individually as impressive as others.
young is 6-4 as a starter right now...if he finishes like 8-5 i dont see how you can not give it to him. say what you want about his rating...but 8-5 on a team like the titans is fucking impressive.

If they make the playoffs, then maybe I can see him getting it...but I think his statistics will hurt him otherwise, especially when the other players are on playoff teams performing well

[make_this_hurt]

Yep...Yep...and Yep.

Vince Young has more INT's (11) than TDs (10). He has a 65.7 passer rating. Statistically, he's basically on par with Gradkowski...who I haven't heard in any of these debates for a reason.

It's impressive how he's lead his teams to win, but, it's not something like Colston or Hester, where he is atop the league in his category (Colston is 15th in receiving yards, even with missing two games...Hester obviously with his returns).

It's very much an individual award, and though Young's contributions to his team have been impressive, they aren't individually as impressive as others.

If they make the playoffs, then maybe I can see him getting it...but I think his statistics will hurt him otherwise, especially when the other players are on playoff teams performing well
Exactly.

How can you not put a guy who broke a league record (Hester) and a guy who is most likely going to break another one (Bush) above someone who's only played well in a few games... and who's below average stat-wise?

Shit, I'd probably even put Leinart above Young. At least he has put up some good numbers with a horrid team.

[preppyak]

Exactly.

How can you not put a guy who broke a league record (Hester) and a guy who is most likely going to break another one (Bush) above someone who's only played well in a few games... and who's below average stat-wise?

Shit, I'd probably even put Leinart above Young. At least he has put up some good numbers with a horrid team.
I'm not sure I'd go that far...but, I agree with the rest of what you said.

[make_this_hurt]

I'm not sure I'd go that far...but, I agree with the rest of what you said.
Leinart -
56% completion, 2171 yards passing, 10 tds, 10 ints, 2 rush tds.. in about 9 1/2 games.

Young -
51% completion, 1704 yards passing, 10tds, 11 ints, 5 rushing tds in about 11 games.

Average Leinarts numbers out to 11 games... and he's at 2513 yards passing, 12tds, 12 ints... with, what I'd say, is a shittier team and a shittier coach.

I know young's record as a starter is better, but come on, Leinart is the better player.

[Scott Weber]

Leinart -
56% completion, 2171 yards passing, 10 tds, 10 ints, 2 rush tds.. in about 9 1/2 games.

Young -
51% completion, 1704 yards passing, 10tds, 11 ints, 5 rushing tds in about 11 games.

Average Leinarts numbers out to 11 games... and he's at 2513 yards passing, 12tds, 12 ints... with, what I'd say, is a shittier team and a shittier coach.

I know young's record as a starter is better, but come on, Leinart is the better player.
In all fairness - Leinart has some of the best receivers in the NFL.

[Zeran]

cold pizza is horrible

[FondestMemory]

it's amazing what two fluke wins and an overtime win over a horrible team all in a row will do to the amount of media willing to suck your dick.

[Scott Weber]

it's amazing what two fluke wins and an overtime win over a horrible team all in a row will do to the amount of media willing to suck your dick.
there's no way that game should have even gone to OT...ron dayne was running all over them. RON DAYNE.

[itsjdiggity]

MJD

the hate on this board is retarded

[livethesounds]

young is 6-4 as a starter right now...if he finishes like 8-5 i dont see how you can not give it to him. say what you want about his rating...but 8-5 on a team like the titans is fucking impressive.

as of now i'd give it to colston though.
and i dont see how you can give to hester (i'm a canes fan and i love the guy) but all he does is return kicks. he may keep them in games and all that good stuff with his returns, but i think it needs to go to a guy that is constantly in the game.

looks like you're going to be the only one with me in this argument. but im pretty sure everything i say will be petty much meaningless because "im a homer"

1. Hester/Colston.
2. Bush.
3. Addai.
4. Young.


Yep...Yep...and Yep.

Vince Young has more INT's (11) than TDs (10). He has a 65.7 passer rating. Statistically, he's basically on par with Gradkowski...who I haven't heard in any of these debates for a reason.

It's impressive how he's lead his teams to win, but, it's not something like Colston or Hester, where he is atop the league in his category (Colston is 15th in receiving yards, even with missing two games...Hester obviously with his returns).

It's very much an individual award, and though Young's contributions to his team have been impressive, they aren't individually as impressive as others.

If they make the playoffs, then maybe I can see him getting it...but I think his statistics will hurt him otherwise, especially when the other players are on playoff teams performing well

ok this isint baseball. baseball is all about stats. people shit themselves over every little fucking stat.
lets look at a couple of things

-colston: he has emerged as a good reciever, but where would he be if Aaron Brooks was still on the saints team? The fact of the matter is he has Drew Breese throwing to him, and that guy makes a nobody like TERRENCE COPPER look like marvin harrison.
OK KIDS now listen to me when i say this, im not discrediting Colston at all, but i am saying that if you want to go by stats then you have to realize the reason he had such big numbers is because he had arugably the best quarterback in the leauge right now passing to him. im pretty sure everyone saw him tear up the boys sunday night with multiple recivers.

-Bush: Im a Reggie Bush fan, i really like the guy, his stats show hes actually been better at catching the ball than running it. his rushing stats are less than impressive, but he shares carries so its hard to really judge that. none of his stats are eye poping, but he makes great plays.

-Hester: he completley deserves to be in the running. an argument that hes just a returner is totall bullshit, especially with all the records hes broken. that being said i dont think he should win ROY because he hasnt started a game on defense yet.

-Addai: Addai has been quiet yet productive (besides his monster 4 td game). yet, that big game is the only one hes gone over 100 yards rushing in. again he sometimes shares carries, like reggie bush. he also has usually has a decent recieveing game, constantly having about 20 yards in that category. hes a good player and a candidate, definitly.

-Young: If all you're looking at is stats then VY is probably #4 on this list. I dont think that does ROY justice. If you're going to give the MVP to the best statistical player every year, and not to the player who had the biggest hand in giving his team wins would people take offence to that?
Vince is 6-4 as a starter, with a team that most people thought was probably one of the worst teams in the league. He has an irregular throwing motion, and is pretty big compared to a regular nfl qb. he struggled like any rookie will do in their first year...but isint that expected from a ROOKIE with all his questions coming into the season??
lets look at the other rookie qbs and how they've done so far this season compared to vince

Vince Young: 6-4 record 10tds 11 ints 1704 yards, with only one good reciver to throw to, and most poeple here wouldent even call drew bennett good.

Matt Leinart: 3-9 record 10 tds 10 ints 2171 yards, and hes throwing to Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin.

Bruce Gradkowski: 3-7 record 9 tds 9 ints 1624 yrds, and Joey Galloway and Micheal Clayton are decent recivers.

all three of these guys are on teams that were shit coming into the season. stats look about theh same with all of them, the diffrence is in the w-l column, and the players you have around you. i think its pretty fair to say the titans have weaker offensive players than the cardinals and buccaneers, or at least you all would have said that at the start of the year.
The titans were also coming into the season playing one of the tougher schedules in the nfl.

My point in all this is Vince Young made the team around him better. im pretty sure that doesnt show up in the stat column. at least you can see that he is turning the titans around with their winning 4 out of the last 5. They have only been out of 2 of those 4 games, and those were VY's worst games as a pro. He is improving more and more every week, its somehting ive never seen a player do.
his numbers arnt amazing, but what he does for the team and the result is what matters.

lets think of it this way....
what team would be hurt the most if they lost one of these guys:

Hester: they wouldnt miss him too terribly on defense, and while he has had a few huge returns, he doesnt do it every single week, and remember a guy named nathan vasher that used to do the same type of thing with the bears the past 2 years?

Colston: The saints proved they could still dominate without him beating the Falcons 31-13 and the 49ers 34-10. looks like they were ok, i mean..they have terrance copper

Bush: His impact would be felt, because hes kind of the Saints x facor, being able to do pretty much anything and do it explosively. But would they lose games without him? i dont think so, Duece is still running loose, and they have numerous recievers to make up for bush's absence. (including the amazing mike carney)

Addai: Addai's impact would probably be felt more than the others ive said so far. Sure, Rhodes is a decent back, but he doesnt have the quickness of Addai. Would the Colts be lost without him? idoubt it. as long as they can run the ball to an extent they should be fine, with manning doing most of the work through the air.

Young: I think its fair to say that without Vince Young, the Tennessee titans would revert back to their early season form. and that looked something like shit. The titans dont have a really good o line, they dont have really good recivers, and the only saving grace is a good combination of running backs. Vince Young gives this team the confidence they need to win. He makes speeches in the huddle to rally the troops, he is a leader. in his first year in the NFL, he walks on the field and belives he will win the ball game.

sure it took a few games to get used to things. but he is a rookie quarterback, and if im not mistaken he has a lot more responsibility and pressure on him than any of the other rookies in question do. 4 loses. 2 were bad, and 2 were by a single point. a sinle point (to the colts and ravens).
again his numbers arnt pretty, but they stack up to any other rookie qb in the leauge right now...but those guys arnt winning games and showing the same poise that VY is.

all this being said, im stil not saying that VY is rookie of the year at this point. i would either give ROY to Colston or possibly Bush...but VY is right behind them.
the titans have a huge game agains the jags this week, and they have to win to stay alive in the playoff hunt...oh yea...they are still in the playoff hunt...the team that started the year 2-7.
if they win that game, and come close to making the playoffs, then i think vince should win it hands down. yea i love the titans, and yea i love vince young, but what hes done so far is nothing short of amazing. and if some of you dont see that then you're crazy.

Im fine with people saying VY is not the ROY, cause at this point i dont htink he is. but to say he's the last on a list of 5 players, one being mostly a returner is absolutley absurd. if some of you just dont like vince young for whatever reason...then thats fine, but dont discredit what hes done just because you dontlike the guy.

sorry for the novel.

Edit: and these comments arnt directed at preppy, but some of the other ones i saw basically hating on VY.

[Scott Weber]

zzzzz

[Vincewithouthee]

Hahaha no way that he's ROY. 3 players deserve it much more than him. And those 3 being Colston, Hester, and Bush, of course.

[livethesounds]

Hahaha no way that he's ROY. 3 players deserve it much more than him. And those 3 being Colston, Hester, and Bush, of course.

see..stop, this happend yesterday in the nfl thead and people starting going apeshit over something i never said.

i did not say Vince Young is rookie of the year!!!!!!!!

hopefully that clears things up.

[itsjdiggity]

Hahaha no way that he's ROY. 3 players deserve it much more than him. And those 3 being Colston, Hester, and Bush, of course.

MJD > Reggie

[Vincewithouthee]

see..stop, this happend yesterday in the nfl thead and people starting going apeshit over something i never said.

i did not say Vince Young is rookie of the year!!!!!!!!

hopefully that clears things up.

Haha dude I never said that you said that. I was replying at what they said on Cold Pizza aka the thread subject. ;)

[livethesounds]

MJD > Reggie

Maurice Jones Drew? Yea, hes legit. he actually has some decent numbers when stacked up to Reggie and Addai. considering he shares carries like the other two players, he has 2 100+ yard games, and some really good receiving games as well. not as consistant in the recieving category as bush, but they are still pretty good.

[livethesounds]

Haha dude I never said that you said that. I was replying at what they said on Cold Pizza.

haha sorry.

[histrionics22]

haha sorry.
I dont think you're giving Colston enough credit. He's always open and his numbers are just as much a product of how skilled he is as it is Brees throwing to him.

[FondestMemory]

i'd put them:

colston
young
jones-drew

[livethesounds]

I dont think you're giving Colston enough credit. He's always open and his numbers are just as much a product of how skilled he is as it is Brees throwing to him.

I know, i said that i wasnt discrediting him. hes ROY right now and should be. But a big part of his numbers is the fact that he has breese to throw to him.
i guess in a nutshell i was trying to say that the saints dont rely on colston to get things done. brees can find a number of guys and make them look like big time players. (see terrance copper)
Vince Young does things for the most part by himself. his team relies on him and belives in him. i think that has to be taken into consideration, and it seems like some people on here are just completley discrediting what hes done.

[livethesounds]

there's no way that game should have even gone to OT...ron dayne was running all over them. RON DAYNE.

why shouldnt it have gone into overtime? he may have had 87 yards and 2 tds, but we had 2 players rush for over 80 yards and 3 tds between them. the texans actually played well sunday, something texans fans seem to ignore because VY beat them in the end.

[livethesounds]

i'd put them:

colston
young
jones-drew

no reggie bush?

mine is

Colston
Young
Bush
Jones-Drew
Hester
Adda

[Scott Weber]

why shouldnt it have gone into overtime? he may have had 87 yards and 2 tds, but we had 2 players rush for over 80 yards and 3 tds between them. the texans actually played well sunday, something texans fans seem to ignore because VY beat them in the end.
The Texans are a terrible team. If the Titans really were all that good, they wouldn't have had to pull it off in overtime. They should have won by 15. And who cares what your players did? That changes nothing. The titans almost gave up 100 yards to RON DAYNE. (and 2 tds)

[bigmike]

I'd go with Maurice Jones-Drew. Then everyone else.

And where's the love for Ernie Sims being the 2nd leading tackler in the NFC? Or AJ Hawk being the 4th leading tacklerin the NFC and has 3.5 sacks and 1 INT? They shouldn't win it, but a top 7/8 or top 5 finish for them shouldn't be out of the question.

Maurice Jones-Drew
Devin Hester
Colston
Young
Bush
Demeco Ryans (127 tackles (Leads the AFC), 3.5 sacks, 1 INT)
Addai
Leinart
Ernie Sims (111 tackles (2nd in the NFC), 0.5 Sack)
AJ Hawk (108 Tackles (4th in the NFC), 3.5 sacks, 1 INT)
Greg Jennings
Mark Anderson (10 sacks for the Bears)

[Scott Weber]

I'd go with Maurice Jones-Drew. Then everyone else.

And where's the love for Ernie Sims being the 2nd leading tackler in the NFC? Or AJ Hawk being the 4th leading tacklerin the NFC and has 3.5 sacks and 1 INT? They shouldn't win it, but a top 7/8 or top 5 finish for them shouldn't be out of the question.

Maurice Jones-Drew
Devin Hester
Colston
Young
Bush
Demeco Ryans (127 tackles (Leads the AFC), 3.5 sacks, 1 INT)
Addai
Leinart
Ernie Sims (111 tackles (2nd in the NFC), 0.5 Sack)
AJ Hawk (108 Tackles (4th in the NFC), 3.5 sacks, 1 INT)
Greg Jennings
Mark Anderson (10 sacks for the Bears)
there's a DROY and OROY. that's why nobody is mentioning those dudes and they shouldn't be ranked with the offensive rookies.

[bigmike]

Edit: Actually, i'm thinking more in terms of 1 rookie of the year award rather than two. So i guess my list doesn't make sense.

[FondestMemory]

So defensive players don't impact the games. Cool.

I'm not advocating that they should win, but to just be thrown out completely for being defensive players? Come on now. Demeco Ryans leading the NFL in tackles isn't worth being mentioned. Rookies are rookies, regardless of what side of the ball they play on.

that indirectly brings up an interesting point.

if there's league mvp, opoy and dpoy, why can't there be a rookie of the year, a oroy and a droy?

that'd make this a whole different conversation. livethesounds was trying to argue that the stats aren't everything, but when it comes to offensive player and defensive player of the year awards, those are extremely stat oriented. that's not a big deal because there's also an mvp to counteract that.

it's that stigma attatched to those that make you instinctively want to look at stats simply because offensive and defensive are in front of the award.

if there were a third award that was just an overall award for the rookie with the biggest impact on his team, i would have no problem voting hester or young for that. but i do have problem voting for hester for offensive or defensive when he doesn't contribute much outside of special teams. just like i'd have trouble voting young offensive rookie of the year with such a low completion percentage and rating.

i don't see them adding the extra award, but i wouldn't be opposed to it.

[Scott Weber]

hester doesn't even deserve a mention. he's been killer, but there isn't an award for him. that's too bad. he's not a very good corner, and he doesn't play on offense. he deserves special teams player of the year...that's about it.

[FondestMemory]

hester doesn't even deserve a mention. he's been killer, but there isn't an award for him. that's too bad. he's not a very good corner, and he doesn't play on offense. he deserves special teams player of the year...that's about it.

that's what i've been saying.

he's gonna have to settle for the pro bowl spot. no trophy for him.

[Broken Parachute]

Colston or Hester.

[Scott Weber]

hester = the new desmond howard

[bigmike]

hester = the new desmond howard
I was thinking more Dante Hall, but Howard's a good analogy, too.

[histrionics22]

I still dont think VY is a top 3. His numbers just aren't good. Plus factoring in winning isnt helping. This is OROTY, not Most Valuable Player Who Happens to Be a Rookie.

[dekdog11]

The Texans are a terrible team. If the Titans really were all that good, they wouldn't have had to pull it off in overtime. They should have won by 15. And who cares what your players did? That changes nothing. The titans almost gave up 100 yards to RON DAYNE. (and 2 tds)

the jags lost twice to houston
:sigh: :-(

[livethesounds]

The Texans are a terrible team. If the Titans really were all that good, they wouldn't have had to pull it off in overtime. They should have won by 15. And who cares what your players did? That changes nothing. The titans almost gave up 100 yards to RON DAYNE. (and 2 tds)

this is the nfl, do you realize how many upsets there are every week? dont pull the "if they were really that good" card.
the titans run d sucks, its gonna happen.

[itsjdiggity]

The Texans are a terrible team. If the Titans really were all that good, they wouldn't have had to pull it off in overtime. They should have won by 15. And who cares what your players did? That changes nothing. The titans almost gave up 100 yards to RON DAYNE. (and 2 tds)

If the Seahawks were all that good, they wouldn't have lost to the Cardinals?

[Scott Weber]

If the Seahawks were all that good, they wouldn't have lost to the Cardinals?
Seahawks AREN'T all that good, and they showed that on Sunday. They're a #4 or 5 team in the NFC at best, and if they played in another division they'd probably miss the playoffs.

[make_this_hurt]

Seahawks AREN'T all that good, and they showed that on Sunday. They're a #4 or 5 team in the NFC at best, and if they played in another division they'd probably miss the playoffs.
Top 6 teams in the AFC > Every team in the NFC.

[Scott Weber]

Top 6 teams in the AFC > Every team in the NFC.
Top 6? That's a bit much. Top 3 or 4, sure. But as much as I love them, Cincy would lose to the Saints or Chicago most likely.