Wal-Mart?

[birdman]

What is with the Wal Mart hatin?

-They are cheap

-They are everywhere

-They pretty much have whatever you need

What more can a consumer ask for?

As for driving out small business...I never shopped at those places anyways, they were too expensive. I'll go to the mom and pop record shops in Atlanta (like the world famous Criminal Records) for stuff I cant find at Wal Mart. But when my copy of Office Space starts skipping I am heading to Wal Mart.

I realize that they treat their employees like crap, but you have to understand that they still do employ over a million workers. Thats over a million jobs created just because of Wal Mart. They may not pay their employees well but it isnt like the majority of their employess are Ivy League grads or anything. Trust me, there are worse places to work (I was a bathroom attendent at a hotel when I was 15, talk about a shitty job).

I dont let things like terrible customer service and the fact that the stock carts are ALWAYS blocking the aisle bother me when I go to Wal Mart, I just get my $5 copy of Waynes World 2 and leave happy.

But...by all means...If you guys wants to pay $7-$10 more for the same shit at a "mom and pop" store than be my guest.

[smokedsanity]

I get my music and movies at some local shops and it can be cheaper than even Wal Mart.
Not all of them, I'll admit, but many.

[birdman]

The only local shop worth a shit in atlanta is criminal records, but I just buy comics and magazines there...i dont buy music.

[thejetstolehome]

i don't like wal-mart 'cuase they treat their works like dogs and pay them shit. they also aren't allowed to unionize and that's no good in my eyes.

"and that's all i've got to say about that."

[Joe DeAndrea]

A lot of the employees are complete idiots but other than that, I love that place.

[birdman]

A lot of the employees are complete idiots but other than that, I love that place.

THANK YOU!! If Wal Mart employees are so miserable why dont they just get another job?

[HplessRomntic]

THANK YOU!! If Wal Mart employees are so miserable why dont they just get another job?

its not as easy as it sounds for many of them walmart is an easy alternative almost anybody can get a job at walmart

[s.t.e.v.e.n.]

THANK YOU!! If Wal Mart employees are so miserable why dont they just get another job?

And if people are unhappy with America they should move to a different country
And if Gay people want to get married they should just move to Massachusetts
And if the children that are working in sweat shops to produce wal-mart products dont like it they should just not be poor.

Incredible logic, I see so many problems with the world being solved that way

[BarrelIsPointed]

As for the job aspect of Wal-Mart, I've been an employee there on both ends and I have this to say: If you work at the Distribution Centers, you get paid better than at any of the other supermarket chains, and it's not horrible work. I mean, you earn your money, but it's good money. As for the stores, I worked as a stocker in a Sam's Club for 2 days...that was all I needed to realize how much shit that is. If you ever need a job desparately, go to a Sam's Club, they literally lose stockers at least once a week.

[MIKEY_HORROR]

i worked loss prevention at walmart and made over 10 dollars an hour starting out, and got to make my own schedule....it wasnt that bad at all

[x togepi x]

i'm blacklisted from walmart's computer system because i filled out a joke application saying it's alright to steal and smoke pot on the job.

[dw1003]

don't you realize that a company who employs over a million people, but doesn't let them unionize is completing fucking insane...

it is the company's responsibility to care of their employees. benifits? better wages? unions...

Walmart represents a huge problem in respect to labor in america.

[alexxxisonfire]

anyone seen the documentaries on Wal-Mart?

ie "The High Price of Low Cost"? good stuff. it'll make you think twice about shopping there.

[FondestMemory]

don't you realize that a company who employs over a million people, but doesn't let them unionize is completing fucking insane...

it is the company's responsibility to care of their employees. benifits? better wages? unions...

Walmart represents a huge problem in respect to labor in america.

walmart doesn't need to unionize. i'm as anti-walmart as you can get, but that would make things worse for everybody.

they pay very competitively. sure, it's shit pay, but it's better shit pay than a like job elsewhere. they also have pretty good benefit programs.

also, it's almost completely impossible to get fired from walmart. and if you actually do get fired, 9 out of 10 times you can go to the store manager and get your job right back. everybody's a number at walmart, so as long as they have a good enough number, they're set. they're not too concerned about the quality of those numbers.

i fucking loathe walmart and pretty much support any argument against them, but not the union one. that one's overused and wouldn't really benefit anybody.

[Trainsaw]

Walmart is a disaster for the American work place. They are a huge reason jobs are being outsourced and the "main street of old" is gone.

Here's a fast run down of what they are doing. Walmart tells a manufacturer that they want to sell their product in their stores for X.XX. The manufacturer often either takes a loss because of this or makes a penny or so on the product. If the manufacturer refuses, Walmart will give them an ultimatium they can either A) Their product and any others will not be sold in Walmart stores or B) Sell for that price.

Now what happens when a company chooses A:

At this time companies cannot afford to not be sold in Walmart, I believe a statistic around 3 years ago is that every 13 cents of a dollar in the United States is spent at a Walmart. A company will go out of business if they do not sell there so they are pretty much forced to.

If a company chooses B: (And they most all do)

The company takes a loss on the product. They are forced to find other ways to get their heads above water. More often than not, what happens, outsourcing. Companies will outsource their production to save on labor costs. Which will directly effect the economy.

Now i'm not gonna say I don't shop at walmart, because I do. As it is right now its not easy to go out and find everything you need at 1 place. But people need to start realizing that the TV you are finding for 15 dollars or a bicycle that is so much cheaper there than it is at Target is actually costing someone their job.

some good reads:

http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/

http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/facts/ (if you want to skip right to facts)

http://walmartwatch.com/

http://www.fastcompany.com/online/77/walmart.html (A read on how they make companies sell for so low prices)

a more startling excerpt from the facts link is this:

If Wal-Mart were an individual economy, it would rank as China’s eighth-biggest trading partner, ahead of Russia, Australia and Canada. [China Business Weekly, 12/02/2004]

[birdman]

don't you realize that a company who employs over a million people, but doesn't let them unionize is completing fucking insane...

it is the company's responsibility to care of their employees. benifits? better wages? unions...

Walmart represents a huge problem in respect to labor in america.

No, its not the employers responsibility to take care of employees, it is just in their best interest to.

A job is an exchange of money for services nothing more. You go to work, do a job, then get paid. If it is a bad job, get a new one. I dont understand what is so hard to grasp.

An employer will pay a worker what they feel their services are worth. Having said that, I WOULDNT PAY a wal mart employee more than $7 an hour, everytime I go to wal-mart everyone is fuckign rude and just standing around.

And I am sure NONE of you guys shop there...right.

[thejetstolehome]

No, its not the employers responsibility to take care of employees, it is just in their best interest to.

A job is an exchange of money for services nothing more. You go to work, do a job, then get paid. If it is a bad job, get a new one. I dont understand what is so hard to grasp.

An employer will pay a worker what they feel their services are worth. Having said that, I WOULDNT PAY a wal mart employee more than $7 an hour, everytime I go to wal-mart everyone is fuckign rude and just standing around.

And I am sure NONE of you guys shop there...right.

i've actually never made a purchase at wal-mart. ever.

and for the average wal-mart employee, i think it's a lot harder than "go get another job." these people aren't exactly skilled laborers who are in high demand.

[we are cured]

No, its not the employers responsibility to take care of employees, it is just in their best interest to.

A job is an exchange of money for services nothing more. You go to work, do a job, then get paid. If it is a bad job, get a new one. I dont understand what is so hard to grasp.

actually there are several things the government has done to make it the employers responsibility.

family leave act, equal opportunity environments, etc.

i understand what you're saying but it only makes sense if the labor market is completely free and competitive.

[Kram41]

Wal-mart does have several problems with respect to their business ethics, but this is not actually one.

Manufacturing and production should take place in the most efficient location. If something can get processed from raw material to the shelf more efficiently by going through a different country, then so be it.

There's no reason that just because somebody is born in America, they should have a better chance at getting a high paying job than someone born in a developing country. The only way those underdeveloped countries will ever prosper is with the free movement of labor. Over-protection of factory jobs in America at inflated wages relative to the world market is harmful to the consumer, the company, and the employer in another country willing to work for less.

It's a tough transition, yes, but these are the changes that need to be made in order for the world to become a more level playing field across countries.

[birdman]

i've actually never made a purchase at wal-mart. ever.

and for the average wal-mart employee, i think it's a lot harder than "go get another job." these people aren't exactly skilled laborers who are in high demand.

I dont believe that for one second. But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because you are a good guy.

Ok, so you don't mke purchases at Wal-Mart because of the way you feel about them politically right?

So lets say for a second that everyone in Atlanta boycotted, the new Wal-Mart they just built here. It would close right? All of those employees would have to find other employment (something some people claim is impossible to do.) So all you have really done is make a bunch of people lose their job.

Another thing, you have to assume that some of this stuff you read about Wal Mart is bullshit. They are the countries biggest retailer and people are going to want to bring them down. You never read any articles or watch any movies talking about Targets flaws and how they treat employees and how when one opens up in there area all the small businesses crumble (and it does happen), you only read that shit about wal-mart.

Also, I am having a hard time understanding why people on this board feel the need to BOYCOTT everything that they dont agree with. For example, I certainly dont agree with everything wal-mart stands for, but they have cheap goods that I want...so they contiue to fill a need. I dont' agree with big oil companies but I still need to get gas. I don't agree with some of the people on this website but I still come here to argue with people.

If I boycotted everything I didnt agree with I would be living on the streets.

[thejetstolehome]

I dont believe that for one second. But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because you are a good guy.

Ok, so you don't mke purchases at Wal-Mart because of the way you feel about them politically right?

So lets say for a second that everyone in Atlanta boycotted, the new Wal-Mart they just built here. It would close right? All of those employees would have to find other employment (something some people claim is impossible to do.) So all you have really done is make a bunch of people lose their job.

Another thing, you have to assume that some of this stuff you read about Wal Mart is bullshit. They are the countries biggest retailer and people are going to want to bring them down. You never read any articles or watch any movies talking about Targets flaws and how they treat employees and how when one opens up in there area all the small businesses crumble (and it does happen), you only read that shit about wal-mart.

Also, I am having a hard time understanding why people on this board feel the need to BOYCOTT everything that they dont agree with. For example, I certainly dont agree with everything wal-mart stands for, but they have cheap goods that I want...so they contiue to fill a need. I dont' agree with big oil companies but I still need to get gas. I don't agree with some of the people on this website but I still come here to argue with people.

If I boycotted everything I didnt agree with I would be living on the streets.

haha thanks dude but i'm dead serious. i cannot, and i'm trying, remember one time that i bought anything there. i really cannot.

and because wal-mart is such a big employer, it would obviously be bad if they shut down. i don't want to run them out of business nor do i want everyone to stop shopping there. i definitely understand why people shop there--i, however, do not and that is my choice.

[Ryan Damage]

From reading this guys posts in the racism thread I could have warned all of you that you're not going to get anywhere. Some people just won't ever understand the problem with Wal-Mart. Someone posted a lot of information and links and it seems to have just been outright ignored.

I would imagine he thinks this world is still like it waspercieved to beat the turn of the twentieth century, everyone should be able to pull themselves up by their own boot straps and make something out of nothing. Obviously I don't know the guy, but from people I've talked to before it's just a thought.

[fenderkid212]

If you are looking for white trash hicks, go to wal-mart at 3 in the morning.
Its like scientific fact, dawg.

[Neo Cassady]

i worked loss prevention at walmart and made over 10 dollars an hour starting out, and got to make my own schedule....it wasnt that bad at all

You started out making more than the average Wal-mart pay (including their CEO's)

:appl:

oh, and everyone who doesn't see a problem with Wal-mart, go read The Wal-mart Effect by Charles Fishman. It's a fairly neutral book that takes a look at both sides. Most of the good things are economical, most of the bad things are moral. That's MY problem with it, and that's why I've never shopped there.

[we are cured]

Most of the good things are economical, most of the bad things are moral. That's MY problem with it, and that's why I've never shopped there.

When most of your consumer base agrees with your 'moral standing', actions in the name of morality can have economic benefits.

[E-Skeezy]

Also, I am having a hard time understanding why people on this board feel the need to BOYCOTT everything that they dont agree with. For example, I certainly dont agree with everything wal-mart stands for, but they have cheap goods that I want...so they contiue to fill a need. I dont' agree with big oil companies but I still need to get gas. I don't agree with some of the people on this website but I still come here to argue with people.

If I boycotted everything I didnt agree with I would be living on the streets.


This makes no sense. It's really not that hard to understand. If you don't agree with something, then why would you continue to funnel money into it and support it, only to further advance the things you don't agree with? I'd rather pay a tad bit more money in order to support a store that I agree with so that I support them and they can continue as a business.

[Joe DeAndrea]

i'm blacklisted from walmart's computer system because i filled out a joke application saying it's alright to steal and smoke pot on the job.

Hahaha nice.

[ClapClapSnap]

i don't like wal-mart 'cuase they treat their works like dogs and pay them shit. they also aren't allowed to unionize and that's no good in my eyes.

"and that's all i've got to say about that."
I got a job for like two months before I went away to school, and it sketched me out how much they drilled us about unions. We had to spend a certain amount of hours doing lame stuff on the computer (even though I wasn't part of the sales) and there was so much just about that. I never understood how they could make us not talk to anymore about unions...whatever though.

That job was decent though. They hired a shitload of kids to do a remodel on that store...we were full-time the whole summer, had one half hour break for lunch, and two fifteen minute breaks during ther rest of the day....we basically just broke down shelves, cleaned/painted, then put up new ones.

Plus, when my friend and I went to orientation, we were with all third shift kids, and we somehow got put onto that payroll, and we ended making waay more money than we were supposed to.

[Justin_stacy]

anyone seen the documentaries on Wal-Mart?

ie "The High Price of Low Cost"? good stuff. it'll make you think twice about shopping there.

Made by the good old honest director Goodwald. Personally, if his fictionalized “truths” make you think “twice” about something I’d whole heartedly question the origins of your thought making process. If you want a more honest view of Wal-Mart give MSNBC's doc a viewing.



Like everything there are two sides to every story. Wal-Mart is not solely the “evil” corporation leftist with political agendas make it out to be. America does benefit from this giant and more importantly the American consumer also benefits. When Wal-Mart enters a community the purchasing power of that community rises, the standard of living tends to rise, the tax base of the community rises, wages rise and outside supplement jobs follow. These are clearly benefits. Now of course “mom and pop” stores tend to lose out in the equation, which from a heritage standpoint is sad, but is the community really hurt by this? Wal-Mart on average pays more then the regional average for a similar job, it creates on average two better paying jobs for everyone it deletes and is more likely to offer some form of personal benefits then a “mom and pop” store.

Its unfair and foolish to view Wal-Mart from only one vantage point, every conclusion must be made while looking at both the pros and the cons. Its from understand all sides that one can conclude whether giant department stores are good for America or harmful.

But even that is kind of besides the point, as this “argument” isn’t really about Wal-Mart or the giant retail industry, its about globalization and big business. Wal-Mart because of its size and public recognition is the lighting rod far-leftist like to attack, but there goals and agendas are far bigger then Wal-Mart or Target.
Ironically most of these leftist promote globalization and big business in the form of governing, just not in the private businesses world, but which is more dangerous to the average citizen?

The unionization attack is also antiquated nonsense. America is past the point where the average worker sees value and protection in union membership. Unionization is dead in America and it was brought about by the unions themselves. They turned into the exact thing they were originally created to counter, and it is becasue of that why Americans are avoiding them like the plague rather then flocking to them. The UAW has been trying for years to scare and intimidate American autoworkers at foreign owned auto plants to join them, and they’ve had very little success and that is because the workers doesn’t see the benefit in joining. Wal-Mart can not stop workers from unionizing, workers can through grasswork operations and with the help of union money, unionize if they wanted to, but obviously the groundswell of support isn’t there.
Wal-Mart, like most other predominately non-union retailers, are also not the best suited situation for a business likely to unionize, as they tend to have quick turn over in employees rather then those searching for a career. Unions because of the seniority structure and cost tend to not work well in fields where employment is not long term, which leaves little reason to join. If you’re going to attack Wal-Mart as evil at least give a valid reason, unionization is hardly that.

[leftstranded]

i can already see by your posts that there is no point in arguing with you

but i have a few points to make:

1. they really do drive companys out of business. they basically tell them that if they don't price their products at a price, walmart will refuse to carry it. and there are certain companys that have been driven out becuase they couldn't afford to do that, and no one else could carry their product either

2. their employees are grossly underpayed. i worked at walmart for 9 months and i made about 6.25 an hour as a cashier/cart pusher. whereas if you work at target your making AT LEAST 7, if not more. I've even talked to people as cashiers at places such as lowes and home depot that make 8+ starting out with the chance to get a raise after 90 days

3. as for their employees being "stupid". it goes back to the fact that they arn't being payed enough to care about their job

don't get me wrong, i still shop at wal-mart out need. i don't have enough money to pay more at other places, but i don't agree with their business practices

[birdman]

This makes no sense. It's really not that hard to understand. If you don't agree with something, then why would you continue to funnel money into it and support it, only to further advance the things you don't agree with? I'd rather pay a tad bit more money in order to support a store that I agree with so that I support them and they can continue as a business.

Well then you must be a lot more wealthy than I am, I dont see the point in spending more somewhere else for the same item because of what some liberals who hate successful business have to say.

[E-Skeezy]

Well then you must be a lot more wealthy than I am, I dont see the point in spending more somewhere else for the same item because of what some liberals who hate successful business have to say.


I'm not wealthy at all. I think the best example I can give would be this little indie music store in the town where I live. I always go there to pick up cds that I can't find in chain retail stores, but I've also go there for some of the bigger releases that come out that even Wal-Mart and Target carry, because I like to show my support for that little store. I know the guy personally, we always talk a ton about music when I go in there, he gives me a bunch of recs(which at first I thought were just attempts to push a bunch of cds on me, but I actually took his advice a few times and all the cds he's recommended have been phenomenal.) and so in return I shop exclusively there for my cds. Sure, they may be on sale or a tad cheaper at say Target or Best Buy, but I'm more than happy to spend an extra 2 or 3 bucks in the indie store because I'm helping(in whatever small amount) to support his store.

[SkylineCollapse]

The unionization attack is also antiquated nonsense. America is past the point where the average worker sees value and protection in union membership. Unionization is dead in America and it was brought about by the unions themselves. They turned into the exact thing they were originally created to counter, and it is becasue of that why Americans are avoiding them like the plague rather then flocking to them. The UAW has been trying for years to scare and intimidate American autoworkers at foreign owned auto plants to join them, and they’ve had very little success and that is because the workers doesn’t see the benefit in joining. Wal-Mart can not stop workers from unionizing, workers can through grasswork operations and with the help of union money, unionize if they wanted to, but obviously the groundswell of support isn’t there.
Wal-Mart, like most other predominately non-union retailers, are also not the best suited situation for a business likely to unionize, as they tend to have quick turn over in employees rather then those searching for a career. Unions because of the seniority structure and cost tend to not work well in fields where employment is not long term, which leaves little reason to join. If you’re going to attack Wal-Mart as evil at least give a valid reason, unionization is hardly that.

not so. but to understand the argument you have to frame it within the right perspective. from your standpoint wal-mart has a high turnover rate and therefore is not well-suited for unions where in fact it is more likely that the reason there is a high turnover is because unions have not had a chance to form and guarantee the rights that many laborers enjoy. this can be found when we juxtapose the rights found in the wal-marts of europe to those found in the states. when we do this we see that unions can and do formulate and they protect valuable things such as mandatory vacation and minimum/maximum hours worked. furthermore, if unions were so unnecessary than wal-mart would not go through the amount of trouble that it does to prevent the formation of such unions. this was touched upon earlier but to expound upon it, wal-mart has been known to actively run smear campaigns on employees who even mention the possibility of unionizing. in addition to that, wal-mart maintains a sort of "union response team" that is dispatched on a corporate jet whenever a store manager reports to corporate headquarters that he may have a union situation on his hands. whether wal-mart is an evil corporation worthy of boycotting is ultimately a subjective decision, but to assert that there is no protection in unions is short-sighted.

[open mind]

wal-mart represents all that's truly wrong with america since we were founded. the basic principle of their buisness is fuck over thy fellow man if it is profitable and/or convienant.
the principle works only if your willing to deal with a permanent underclass, and if you can deal with that quit bitching about the welfare these people need to survive.

[s.t.e.v.e.n.]

mostly the alleged sweat shop labor bothers me

[Neo Cassady]

mostly the proven sweat shop labor bothers me

fixed.

A couple years ago there was an investigation on Wal-mart for sweat shop labor. There were ANNOUNCED visits to their international factories, and more than half still failed to meet labor standards.

[Justin_stacy]

not so. .

‘tis so. 7% of the private sector is not a strong number, and if it ain't dead its on lifesupport.

Fortunately Americans have seen unionization as the antiquated, corrupt, institution it has turned itself into, and that is why they are flocking away from it in droves.

Its true Wal-Mart has its pros and cons, but the lack of unionization has no business being in the equation.

[livethesounds]

ex wal mart employee right here!!!!!!!!

it sucked sooo much ass

[ClapClapSnap]

ex wal mart employee right here!!!!!!!!

it sucked sooo much ass
Did you know they used the price guns at other stores (like CVS and Walgreens) to scan prices of everything, and then go back to their store and lower the prices? While I worked there, I heard other employees talking about how they did it, and got thrown out if they got caught.

Stuff like that doesn't sit well with me.

[FondestMemory]

Did you know they used the price guns at other stores (like CVS and Walgreens) to scan prices of everything, and then go back to their store and lower the prices? While I worked there, I heard other employees talking about how they did it, and got thrown out if they got caught.

Stuff like that doesn't sit well with me.

walmart's not the only place that does that though. it's comp-shopping. it's a rather common practice.

[Ryan Damage]

‘tis so. 7% of the private sector is not a strong number, and if it ain't dead its on lifesupport.

Fortunately Americans have seen unionization as the antiquated, corrupt, institution it has turned itself into, and that is why they are flocking away from it in droves.

Its true Wal-Mart has its pros and cons, but the lack of unionization has no business being in the equation.

As much as I don't want to agree with you on the majority of this issue, I feel the same way about unions. The union system is a joke anymore. I've been through it, been a part of it, and don't want anything to do with it anymore.

[birdman]

walmart's not the only place that does that though. it's comp-shopping. it's a rather common practice.

You open up an interesting point. Everyone gives Wal Mart flack when their business practices are common among big retail corporations. At the heart of every corporation is the desire to turn a big profit and most of the time that means treating the bottom rung employees like shit. Of course, I dont know if some of you expect a Wal Mart cashier to make $40,000 a year or something but no bottom rung employee is paid well in any corporation. The job I have right now is the first job I have ever had to offer me health insurance and a 401k benefits package...and I am a college grad. Anytime I worked at a grocery store or any other retail location I was never offered benefits even as a full time employee.

The reason Wal Mart gets all of the bad press is because they are the biggest retailer in the country...so in a way they are the representation of everything wrong with retail corporations. That doesnt mean they are evil, it just means everything wrong that corporations do they do twice as much because they are so large. It isnt like Target employees pull in 6 figures a year and are treated like kings (I used to work at Target). When I worked there I was paid $8 an hour to stock. It was a reasonable wage considering how responsibility-free my job was. I don't know what a Wal Mart employee does that warrants them getting paid well, but I cant imagine they have a much more stressful job than a Target employee.

Anybody with any sort of skill or intelligence can get a job in this country. Liberals want you to believe that you cant but I have always been able to work...sometimes the job sucked and I worked there until I could find a better one. Thats life! I am in a job right now where I am actually working in corporate and I could get fired at any minute for no fucking reason because "the company is downsizing" so I work my ass off so that if they do have to downsize they will think twice about letting me go. It sucks, but I can support myself and my loved ones and that is motivation enough for me.

Whats my point? Wal-Mart is a successful company that offers me low prices and convienence, what more can I ask for. If I picked apart every corporation and dwelled on the things about their policies that I dont agree with I would be living in a box making my clothes out of old newspapers. If the people that work there are unhappy then they should find a new job. If their life situation prevents them from finding a new job then it is not my responsibility to fix it for them or to correct the mistakes they made in the past to put them in that position. If everyone stopped shopping at wal mart tomorrow because of the companies ethics 1.3 million people would lose their jobs. And since some of you seem to think that it is impossible for a Wal Mart employee to a get a different job I guess that means 1.3 million more homeless people.

[youcomebeforeyo]

Why can't American workers unionize? Well Wal-Mart workers? Is there legal stature that supports Wal-Mart blocking them or what?

I'm just curious.


To the post above, Wal-Mart does get the majority of the flak yes. But I think it's one of those privillage/power positions. Like the USA with foreign policy. They're number one and so the world holds the USA to the values it promotes in action, Wal-Mart is the number 1 retailing company in the USA so they should be making an example. Well it's unfair to attack just one, can you see why attacking is centered?

[SkylineCollapse]

Fortunately Americans have seen unionization as the antiquated, corrupt, institution it has turned itself into, and that is why they are flocking away from it in droves.

a third party organization that guarantees labor rights such as meal breaks, safe working conditions, and due compensation for time worked is neither antiquated nor corrupt. while i agree with you that wal-mart has its pros and cons, labor issues and wal-mart are fairly well-documented so the lack of unionization definitely fits in the equation of a discussion centered around the business practices of the company.

moreover, the UAW enjoys representation in all three of the big U.S. automakers as well as six foreign ones.

[SkylineCollapse]

Why can't American workers unionize? Well Wal-Mart workers? Is there legal stature that supports Wal-Mart blocking them or what?

they can it's just that wal-mart very agressively campaigns against it. so much so that wal-mart garners a lot of criticism from what many people believe to be unfair labor practices. in many case it's true, in many others it's not.

[Paul Tao]

Considering that this is a music website, I'll take this approach...

Wal-Mart presents a huge portion of a CD's sales these days and artists who don't have their CDs sold at Wal-Marts across the country are faced with a potentially huge loss in CD sales, so it is sad that many artists are forced to compromise their artistic and musical integrity in order to keep in line with Wal-Mart's "wholesome family" image. Nirvana had to change the artwork to the back of In Utero from what had been images of fetuses because Wal-Mart refused to stock it and the label asked the band to change it because it represented a 25% loss in CD sales. While Wal-Mart cannot make an artist change its lyrics or force it to change its artwork and all that jazz, its position as head of an insanely large industry has afforded it the de facto power of seeing that some CDs get sold more than others.

Combine that with Wal-Mart's conservative family values and I see a conflict of interest with contributing towards an potential expansion of artistic expression in America. There seems to be a lot of artists who have to change their work in order to adapt and thus keep in line with some kind of invisible, mainstream look - Wal-Mart isn't single-handedly responsible for the Nickelbacks and Hinders in the world but can still be faulted (along with a number of other large corporations) to an extent.

On an ideological level, I disagree with this role that Wal-Mart plays in stifling creativity and thus refuse to shop there. Sure, you can say that Wal-Mart is only one of many and my singling out of Wal-Mart might be unfair, but life and politics isn't always all-or-nothing - you do what you can, when you can.

[Justin_stacy]

a third party organization that guarantees labor rights such as meal breaks, safe working conditions, and due compensation for time worked is neither antiquated nor corrupt. while i agree with you that wal-mart has its pros and cons, labor issues and wal-mart are fairly well-documented so the lack of unionization definitely fits in the equation of a discussion centered around the business practices of the company.

moreover, the UAW enjoys representation in all three of the big U.S. automakers as well as six foreign ones.

Corrupt organizations that don't represent their funders, stifle job growth, promote irresponsibility and demonize accountability, intimidate and bully workers, steal, etc etc are useless in our society. And it is the American workforce, not just me, that view them as antiquated and obviously there is a reason for that. Membership doesn‘t just drop by 50% in ten years without a reason.

And no the fact that Wal-Mart is not represented by a union shouldn’t be forced into the equation. Unionization is not the norm but the expectation in this industry, and there fore shouldn’t be expected. Besides that when your answer possess just as many, if not more, negatives then your so called problem, it tends to make one question the overall validity of the chosen solution. Unionization is nolonger the answer in this country.

Also the UAW represents the big three and its subsidiaries (Mazda-Ford built, Mitsubishi-Dodge built, Suzuki/Isuzu/Saab-GM built), all of which are built on the same assembly lines by the same workers. Outside of that they represent only a hand full of shops, not whole companies, and have been shut out by employee votes in many others (even in the rust belt).

[youcomebeforeyo]

Corrupt organizations that don't represent their funders, stifle job growth, promote irresponsibility and demonize accountability, intimidate and bully workers, steal, etc etc are useless in our society. And it is the American workforce, not just me, that view them as antiquated and obviously there is a reason for that. Membership doesn‘t just drop by 50% in ten years without a reason.

There's a famous old quote sitting around the dredges of history that I read in a time magazine once. I think it was Linden Johnson (The president of the USA who sat through the begining of the great depression) who stated that unions were functionally useless (except with a lot more class). The Great Depression happened and union numbers skyrocketed and labor rights were forcibly recognized again.

Unions come and go in relivance.

[RomeoAGoGo]

I buy my thongs from Wal-Mart. Don't hate.

[justinevans]

There's a famous old quote sitting around the dredges of history that I read in a time magazine once. I think it was Linden Johnson (The president of the USA who sat through the begining of the great depression) who stated that unions were functionally useless (except with a lot more class). The Great Depression happened and union numbers skyrocketed and labor rights were forcibly recognized again.

Unions come and go in relivance.

Lyndon B. Johnson. He wasn't the president until the 60s. He would have been 20 years on Black Tuesday.

Wow.

[justinevans]

i don't like wal-mart 'cuase they treat their works like dogs and pay them shit. they also aren't allowed to unionize and that's no good in my eyes.

"and that's all i've got to say about that."

eh, for everything a union is good for, there is something they are bad for.

I don't like how they have workers work 39 hours a week so they don't have to pay benefits.

[justinevans]

And if people are unhappy with America they should move to a different country
And if Gay people want to get married they should just move to Massachusetts
And if the children that are working in sweat shops to produce wal-mart products dont like it they should just not be poor.

Incredible logic, I see so many problems with the world being solved that way

Walmart isn't a manufacturer?

[justinevans]

i've actually never made a purchase at wal-mart. ever.

and for the average wal-mart employee, i think it's a lot harder than "go get another job." these people aren't exactly skilled laborers who are in high demand.

who's fault is that?

[justinevans]

Wal-mart does have several problems with respect to their business ethics, but this is not actually one.

Manufacturing and production should take place in the most efficient location. If something can get processed from raw material to the shelf more efficiently by going through a different country, then so be it.

There's no reason that just because somebody is born in America, they should have a better chance at getting a high paying job than someone born in a developing country. The only way those underdeveloped countries will ever prosper is with the free movement of labor. Over-protection of factory jobs in America at inflated wages relative to the world market is harmful to the consumer, the company, and the employer in another country willing to work for less.

It's a tough transition, yes, but these are the changes that need to be made in order for the world to become a more level playing field across countries.

:appl:

[justinevans]

This makes no sense. It's really not that hard to understand. If you don't agree with something, then why would you continue to funnel money into it and support it, only to further advance the things you don't agree with? I'd rather pay a tad bit more money in order to support a store that I agree with so that I support them and they can continue as a business.

Nathan Hot Dogs has direct links to terrorism, yet people still eat them?

[justinevans]

wal-mart represents all that's truly wrong with america since we were founded. the basic principle of their buisness is fuck over thy fellow man if it is profitable and/or convienant.
the principle works only if your willing to deal with a permanent underclass, and if you can deal with that quit bitching about the welfare these people need to survive.

oh so FYE charging 18$ for a cd, doesn't fuck over the fellow man?

The reason Walmart prices are cheaper also has a lot to do with less people on the supply chain. They pretty much take out the middle man.

[justinevans]

i can already see by your posts that there is no point in arguing with you

but i have a few points to make:

1. they really do drive companys out of business. they basically tell them that if they don't price their products at a price, walmart will refuse to carry it. and there are certain companys that have been driven out becuase they couldn't afford to do that, and no one else could carry their product either

2. their employees are grossly underpayed. i worked at walmart for 9 months and i made about 6.25 an hour as a cashier/cart pusher. whereas if you work at target your making AT LEAST 7, if not more. I've even talked to people as cashiers at places such as lowes and home depot that make 8+ starting out with the chance to get a raise after 90 days

3. as for their employees being "stupid". it goes back to the fact that they arn't being payed enough to care about their job

don't get me wrong, i still shop at wal-mart out need. i don't have enough money to pay more at other places, but i don't agree with their business practices

Aren't prices higher @ Target and Home Depot? They are underpaid by 75 cents? wow?.

What companies have they driven out of business?

[RomeoAGoGo]

Bottom line : Wal-Mart is not good for small businesses. Wal-Mart's products are very cheap. In order to stay in competition with such a huge establishment, small businesses must lower their prices which decreases profit.

As for stupid people working there, go figure? It's mostly people who never went to college or don't have a career path.

[justinevans]

a third party organization that guarantees labor rights such as meal breaks, safe working conditions, and due compensation for time worked is neither antiquated nor corrupt. while i agree with you that wal-mart has its pros and cons, labor issues and wal-mart are fairly well-documented so the lack of unionization definitely fits in the equation of a discussion centered around the business practices of the company.

moreover, the UAW enjoys representation in all three of the big U.S. automakers as well as six foreign ones.

American Auto Companies pay out close to 1100-1500$ in health benefits per car. Japanese companies pay somewhere around $100.

[justinevans]

Bottom line : Wal-Mart is not good for small businesses. Wal-Mart's products are very cheap. In order to stay in competition with such a huge establishment, small businesses must lower their prices which decreases profit.

As for stupid people working there, go figure? It's mostly people who never went to college or don't have a career path.

Small businesses rarely offer benefits or anything. The reason their prices are more because their is more on the supply chain between them and the manufacturer. Small business do not benefit the consumers or the communities as a whole.

[RomeoAGoGo]

Small businesses rarely offer benefits or anything. The reason their prices are more because their is more on the supply chain between them and the manufacturer. Small business do not benefit the consumers or the communities as a whole.


I never said small businesses were a good thing. I just said Wal-Mart gives them a lot of problems.

[justinevans]

I never said small businesses were a good thing. I just said Wal-Mart gives them a lot of problems.

they give themselves a lot of problems.

[Justin_stacy]

There's a famous old quote sitting around the dredges of history that I read in a time magazine once. I think it was Linden Johnson (The president of the USA who sat through the begining of the great depression) who stated that unions were functionally useless (except with a lot more class). The Great Depression happened and union numbers skyrocketed and labor rights were forcibly recognized again.

Unions come and go in relivance.

Hoover and Coolidge sat prior to the Great Depression, LBJ was president in the 60's.

Unions had there time and place in history, but you don't keep a corrupt institution alive, just becasue it once did some good.

[SkylineCollapse]

And no the fact that Wal-Mart is not represented by a union shouldn’t be forced into the equation. Unionization is not the norm but the expectation in this industry, and there fore shouldn’t be expected. Besides that when your answer possess just as many, if not more, negatives then your so called problem, it tends to make one question the overall validity of the chosen solution. Unionization is nolonger the answer in this country.

i feel that our discourse has moved away from wal-mart and more towards the pros and cons of unions. that being said, i think that we are just going to have to agree to disagree. i don't feel that the issue of wal-mart disallowing labor unions is being forced into the topic. to me it seems to flow naturally since any discussion about wal-mart and whether it is good or bad generally moves to labor at some point or another. this, to me, would logically then move on to labor unions. i'm not saying that the use of labor unions hasn't decreased, i'm simply stating that it belongs in the discussion.

[Paul Tao]

:-( nobody wants to comment on my opinion?

[SkylineCollapse]

:-( nobody wants to comment on my opinion?

haha. well, i certainly agree with you to an extent. but i seem to remember reading an article somewhere that said wal-mart was thinking about dropping this policy. anyone know anything else about this?

[justinevans]

:-( nobody wants to comment on my opinion?

25% cd loss for how much cost? If it wasn't worth it, certain bands wouldn't do it.

If the outlet wasn't there, would they have those cd sales? probably not.

[cfear]

There's no reason that just because somebody is born in America, they should have a better chance at getting a high paying job than someone born in a developing country. The only way those underdeveloped countries will ever prosper is with the free movement of labor. Over-protection of factory jobs in America at inflated wages relative to the world market is harmful to the consumer, the company, and the employer in another country willing to work for less.

It's a tough transition, yes, but these are the changes that need to be made in order for the world to become a more level playing field across countries.

U.S. countries have been sending jobs to Latin America for over twenty years, but most Latin American countries are still among the poorest nations on the planet. Take coffee. As a means to get indigenous farmers from growing cocao in Bolivia American companies have gone in and introduced a special kind of coffee that grows fast and, theoretically, this faster growing time will allow these farmers to make more money per year than if they were growing cocao and selling to the local villages. This not only reduces the supply of cocao available to make cocoaine, but it increases the supply of South American coffee in the Western markets. Now, there are two issues with this. Only one is relevant to your statement. This is supposed to make the indigenous farmers more money, but it hasn't. The farmers are still not making any money. I might be off on the country (probably am), but I'm recalling this from an article in last fall's issues of The World Policy Journal (it could have been Foreign Affairs).

Also, in Southeast Asia the jobs are for very, very, vey low wages, and often are given to children because Country A has no laws against child labor. This has many implications: A) Profit in the West is more important than outsourcing our customs dealing with child labor, B) The Western Consumer is more important than the Third World worker (I hate the term Third World, it's sooo Cold War), C) Western corporations are above international law, D) Third World countries need the help of Western economies to sustain themselves and bring themselves out of debt. Each point is an inherently flawed concept. I mean, even if Wal-Mart forces producers to outsource production to China in order to get cheaper labor, this isn't going to make China richer. The Chinese worker is going to take his 3$ two-week paycheck and spend it on food. Every worker will spend it on food. If they have anything left over they will probably buy something necessary to live, but they wont spend the money on something to stimulate the economy. If the money goes into food, it will be used in the food industry within China. So China will be set on food. I don't like that I've choosen China as an example...I'm going to switch to the Phillipines. The Phillipino agrigultural industry will be making a little bit of money. Now, that doesn't mean that the Phillipino economy is going to grow stronger. It won't have anything to grow it's economy. There aren't any corporations they can tax. The people are too poor to tax heavily. There isn't much that can be traded to other countries. If they have surplus food it will not be closed to the standards Western countries have. The Phillipines are fucked. Their economy gives jobs to Western companies at a cheap price, but the money the workers earns goes in a cycle from Worker to Merchant to Food Producer. It doesn't make it's way back to the worker or to help out the Phillipino economy. The Food Producer is either a local farmer or some other Western Company. The Phillipines are fucked.

I don't deal with International Business often. I am an International Studies major who deals with democratization in Latin America, but I have friends in International Business who are more liberal than me (why the fuck are they in business?).

[Jason Tate]

they give themselves a lot of problems.
They keep unions out, keep wages hovering around poverty levels, and import items rather than purchasing American-made goods.

That about sums it up for me.

[youcomebeforeyo]

Lyndon B. Johnson. He wasn't the president until the 60s. He would have been 20 years on Black Tuesday.

Wow.

It was Lyndon B. Johnson who was the first president post depression to hold the presidents during the depression in high regard (which had previously been a taboo). That's where my confusion came from :|

[justinevans]

They keep unions out, keep wages hovering around poverty levels, and import items rather than purchasing American-made goods.

That about sums it up for me.

What goods are American-made? American companies tend to only make products for higher income people because they are the ones that can afford to buy them. They normally have higher prices due to unions, high wages, and etc.

The average consumer would not buy much American made products. Imported products are cheaper. Many countries do that. If you fail to see we have become a service economy, you really have issues. We don't like in 1760 or even 1920 anymore.

[justinevans]

It was Lyndon B. Johnson who was the first president post depression to hold the presidents during the depression in high regard (which had previously been a taboo). That's where my confusion came from :|

Phew. However, Lyndon B. Johnson became president because JFK was murdered. He also continues our tenure in Vietnam too. But he did do well for some social programs.

[Trainsaw]

25% cd loss for how much cost? If it wasn't worth it, certain bands wouldn't do it.

If the outlet wasn't there, would they have those cd sales? probably not.

thats the problem for a lot of manufacturers, they have to be sold in walmart to even come close to a profit, so walmart takes advantage of that. The manufacturers have to cut the fat somewhere and 9 out of 10 times is the American worker that gets cut

[ILIKEPILLOWS]

What is with the Wal Mart hatin?

-They are cheap

-They are everywhere

-They pretty much have whatever you need

What more can a consumer ask for?

As for driving out small business...I never shopped at those places anyways, they were too expensive. I'll go to the mom and pop record shops in Atlanta (like the world famous Criminal Records) for stuff I cant find at Wal Mart. But when my copy of Office Space starts skipping I am heading to Wal Mart.

I realize that they treat their employees like crap, but you have to understand that they still do employ over a million workers. Thats over a million jobs created just because of Wal Mart. They may not pay their employees well but it isnt like the majority of their employess are Ivy League grads or anything. Trust me, there are worse places to work (I was a bathroom attendent at a hotel when I was 15, talk about a shitty job).

I dont let things like terrible customer service and the fact that the stock carts are ALWAYS blocking the aisle bother me when I go to Wal Mart, I just get my $5 copy of Waynes World 2 and leave happy.

But...by all means...If you guys wants to pay $7-$10 more for the same shit at a "mom and pop" store than be my guest.

Wal-Mart?! Pretty much have whatever you need?! PALEEZ! They hardly ever have any of the cds I want. Then I have to go somewhere freakin else. I reeally like F.Y.E. They have all the good stuff. O_o I also like Best Buy. Where I can lay on the tables and flirt with the salesmen. *___* lol. Just kidding.

[birdman]

They keep unions out, keep wages hovering around poverty levels, and import items rather than purchasing American-made goods.

That about sums it up for me.

Which again I ask, how much SHOULD a Wal Mart employee get paid? Keep in mind, I have experience in a major retail chain, it wasnt that demanding of a job. I got paid shitty but I was 17 and had no real skills or responsibility.

A job at Wal Mart isn't for people with families and mortgages, its for people starting out, its for people who desire or need a low demand job such as an elderly person or someone with a mental or physical disability. If you are in a situation in your life where you HAVE to work at Wal Mart and cant get a job anywhere else and you have a family to support then the problem isnt with Wal Mart, the problem is with you. Wal Mart cant be expected to pay indigent workers outrageous salaries with benefits because they are in a shitty life situation for a job that frankly isnt that demanding to begin with (I cant imagine any life situation that FORCES you to work at Wal Mart)

There are jobs out there for people with no education. I ran into a kid I went to high school with last year and he said he was pulling in almost $50,000 managing a Quik Trip, he never went to college and from the looks of it has come into quite a drinking problem. When I worked at a hotel as a bathroom attendant a few years back to grounds keeper for that hotel drove a new car, had a house, and supported his wife and two kids on that salary. These are people with no education making a good life for themsevlevs (aside from the drinking problem). Their jobs might not be the most prestigious jobs in the world but the put a smile on their face and work hard knowing that they are able to support themselves and their families.

[SkylineCollapse]

Which again I ask, how much SHOULD a Wal Mart employee get paid?

on this point i will have to agree. there is only so much you can pay an unskilled worker to do a relatively simple job. that being said, wal-mart has eliminated almost all of the full-time positions, making any chances for advancement virtually nonexistent. this also denies benefits. it is a double-edged sword.

[Trainsaw]

on this point i will have to agree. there is only so much you can pay an unskilled worker to do a relatively simple job. that being said, wal-mart has eliminated almost all of the full-time positions, making any chances for advancement virtually nonexistent. this also denies benefits. it is a double-edged sword.

well there's a new batch of 16 year olds every year for them to feed off of, why bother paying someone who has been w/ the place for 10 years a higher wage when you can bring in a 16 year old to do his job for starting wages.

[cfear]

A job at Wal Mart isn't for people with families and mortgages, its for people starting out, its for people who desire or need a low demand job such as an elderly person or someone with a mental or physical disability. If you are in a situation in your life where you HAVE to work at Wal Mart and cant get a job anywhere else and you have a family to support then the problem isnt with Wal Mart, the problem is with you.


I think this is an illogical statement when compared with what you said later on. You go on, after this paragraph, to talk about how not having a higher education doesn't deny people access to great jobs (i.e, your hotel manager analogy), but this doesn't really make sense. Think of it this way: If someone has been laid off of a job at a factory (let's even say they've had the job for twenty-five years) and is unable to find themselves work at a competing factory or any other place they are qualified to work. This leaves very, very few options. They could work in fast-food, but in most cases the schedules at fast-food restuarants aren't flexible enough for someone with a family. So this leaves them with fewer choices. [Note: If you haven't caught on by now this analogy is set in a more industrial town/region that is largely blue-collar.] Any jobs left for you to apply to are also being sought by your former co-workers who have also been laid off and who are all in a similiar predicament. Now, this is like everyone bobbing for apples in one small barrell at the same time. Wal-Mart, though, is still an option. The person applies there as a last resort. There isn't a union to be able to guarantee them anything. They have to work on Wal-Mart's terms, but since they need the job to support their family they take it. Is this their fault? The town they were raised in had, for decades, support multiple factories that provided a good salary and many benefits that the unions had worked for over the years. For most people in this town there wasn't a need to go to college, so many people sought jobs at the factory and made that their life. With the loss of their job they sought employment at the last available place. It isn't their fault.

[open mind]

oh so FYE charging 18$ for a cd, doesn't fuck over the fellow man?

The reason Walmart prices are cheaper also has a lot to do with less people on the supply chain. They pretty much take out the middle man.

choosing to pay 18$ for a cd is alot different then taking advantage of people because they don't have any other employment options.
it has more to do with their suppliers fucking over their workers and walmart turning a blind eye to it.......and walmart is the middleman.

[x togepi x]

choosing to pay 18$ for a cd is alot different then taking advantage of people because they don't have any other employment options.
it has more to do with their suppliers fucking over their workers and walmart turning a blind eye to it.......and walmart is the middleman.

uh...the only reason why FYE can get away charging so much for cds isn't because they use fair business practices. it's mostly because they're in a mall and people like one stop shopping, so they're too lazy to drive somewhere else to buy the same thing at a cheaper price.

[BarrelIsPointed]

Fuck Wal-Mart. You know that? Fuck'em. Ok, so not fuck Wal-Mart, more fuck Wal-Mart customers. I went there today (because Kroger and LoBill were closed) at midnight...it took me 30 min. to check out to buy a fucking 50 cent thing of chili powder. This is at fucking midnight. People need to die. (sorry, just got done with my first 9 hour retail working shift, a little lacking on patience)

[open mind]

uh...the only reason why FYE can get away charging so much for cds isn't because they use fair business practices. it's mostly because they're in a mall and people like one stop shopping, so they're too lazy to drive somewhere else to buy the same thing at a cheaper price.

how is that unfair to their suppliers and the people that work for them? and besides it doesn't really have anything to do with the point i was making.

[x togepi x]

how is that unfair to their suppliers and the people that work for them? and besides it doesn't really have anything to do with the point i was making.

i don't see why you're defending FYE and saying it's better than Walmart.

indie record stores are better than walmart.

[Trainsaw]

Walmart seemed to be too good at capitolism

[Iamhome]

I think this is an illogical statement when compared with what you said later on. You go on, after this paragraph, to talk about how not having a higher education doesn't deny people access to great jobs (i.e, your hotel manager analogy), but this doesn't really make sense. Think of it this way: If someone has been laid off of a job at a factory (let's even say they've had the job for twenty-five years) and is unable to find themselves work at a competing factory or any other place they are qualified to work. This leaves very, very few options. They could work in fast-food, but in most cases the schedules at fast-food restuarants aren't flexible enough for someone with a family. So this leaves them with fewer choices. [Note: If you haven't caught on by now this analogy is set in a more industrial town/region that is largely blue-collar.] Any jobs left for you to apply to are also being sought by your former co-workers who have also been laid off and who are all in a similiar predicament. Now, this is like everyone bobbing for apples in one small barrell at the same time. Wal-Mart, though, is still an option. The person applies there as a last resort. There isn't a union to be able to guarantee them anything. They have to work on Wal-Mart's terms, but since they need the job to support their family they take it. Is this their fault? The town they were raised in had, for decades, support multiple factories that provided a good salary and many benefits that the unions had worked for over the years. For most people in this town there wasn't a need to go to college, so many people sought jobs at the factory and made that their life. With the loss of their job they sought employment at the last available place. It isn't their fault.



I doubt your factory worker went to every single factory in his area, and every company hiring. I'm sure, in a situation like this, he went to 2 places and tried to get a job, but then gave up and worked at walmart. Every person, aside from mental defects, gets to pick their own destiny. If you choose to settle for a job at wal*mart, and make that your daily routine instead of trying to do better with you life, then that is your choice. If someones wants a different job bad enough, they will go get it.

It IS their fault.

[wearitloud]

I doubt your factory worker went to every single factory in his area, and every company hiring. I'm sure, in a situation like this, he went to 2 places and tried to get a job, but then gave up and worked at walmart. Every person, aside from mental defects, gets to pick their own destiny. If you choose to settle for a job at wal*mart, and make that your daily routine instead of trying to do better with you life, then that is your choice. If someones wants a different job bad enough, they will go get it.

It IS their fault.


It's not that unbelieveable of a statement that a factory worker could apply at every factory near them and not get hired. It's not hard to send out a bunch of applications or go to a few interveiws. So many factors would go into whether or not he would be hired at one of them, though. How many factories are in his area, if they're hiring for his position or not, how many other factory workers were laid off (to add to competition), etc. It's not always that easy to just get a job. Though I will agree with you that if someone wants a job, they will go find it. They could move to an area where a position they are qualified for would be more obtainable. However, things aren't always as simple as your statement makes them seem.

[birdman]

I doubt your factory worker went to every single factory in his area, and every company hiring. I'm sure, in a situation like this, he went to 2 places and tried to get a job, but then gave up and worked at walmart. Every person, aside from mental defects, gets to pick their own destiny. If you choose to settle for a job at wal*mart, and make that your daily routine instead of trying to do better with you life, then that is your choice. If someones wants a different job bad enough, they will go get it.

It IS their fault.

Thank You.

And as far as I am concerned, if you can feed your kids and put a roof over their head and a bed to sleep in every night than who the fuck is anybody to tell you that you are impoverished. My neighbor is a single mother who makes about 10 bucks an hour but is able to take care of her child and that is all that matters.

[justinevans]

EB4G7EzKwXQ

[rocktometal]

EB4G7EzKwXQ

i hate wal-mart. terrible service, low grade products, terrible wages. i avoid shopping there at all times.

[open mind]

i don't see why you're defending FYE and saying it's better than Walmart.

indie record stores are better than walmart.

because the difference between walmart and FYE is ginormous, on one hand you've got a store that screws up the world on a global level, and on the other you've got a store that sells cd's to people who are willing to pay more then they have to for said cd's.

[x togepi x]

because the difference between walmart and FYE is ginormous, on one hand you've got a store that screws up the world on a global level, and on the other you've got a store that sells cd's to people who are willing to pay more then they have to for said cd's.

FYE is part of a mall. Malls screw over the world on a global level as well.

i'm not defending walmart. fuck walmart. i think it's just dumb to hate on walmart and then shop somewhere that's just as bad.

[justinevans]

FYE is part of a mall. Malls screw over the world on a global level as well.

i'm not defending walmart. fuck walmart. i think it's just dumb to hate on walmart and then shop somewhere that's just as bad.

FYE is not just a mall store.

[open mind]

FYE is part of a mall. Malls screw over the world on a global level as well.

i'm not defending walmart. fuck walmart. i think it's just dumb to hate on walmart and then shop somewhere that's just as bad.

FYE may be part of a mall in most instances, but they aren't responsible for the buisness practices of the rest of the stores in the mall (and even if they were, the stores in malls don't really have as horrible a record of exploitation), walmart as a superstore type chain that houses itself and no one else (except for maybe a mcdonalds) is entirely responsible for everything in the building.
by the way i don't shop at FYE, i don't think there is even one in this state, somebody just used them as an example and i ran with it.

[x togepi x]

FYE may be part of a mall in most instances, but they aren't responsible for the buisness practices of the rest of the stores in the mall (and even if they were, the stores in malls don't really have as horrible a record of exploitation), walmart as a superstore type chain that houses itself and no one else (except for maybe a mcdonalds) is entirely responsible for everything in the building.
by the way i don't shop at FYE, i don't think there is even one in this state, somebody just used them as an example and i ran with it.

I don't care if malls don't have *as* horrible records in exploitation, they have horrible records in exploitation.

If you're going to criticize walmart for something, don't hold up something else like a mall up as a good example when in reality, it's just slightly less bad. it's like saying that you're antiwar, but murder's okay because only one person dies.

[justinevans]

I don't care if malls don't have *as* horrible records in exploitation, they have horrible records in exploitation.

If you're going to criticize walmart for something, don't hold up something else like a mall up as a good example when in reality, it's just slightly less bad. it's like saying that you're antiwar, but murder's okay because only one person dies.

you want exploitation...A burger @ Friday's in NYC is $16.99 Anywhere else it is maybe 8$

[cal1082]

People only like to tolerate success to a certain point then bring them down. People use to like the idea of a little man becoming big like WalMart originally did. Once they showed they could do it the best people want to knock them down. Just like anything else in life. WalMarts no different than probably half the corporation or companies out there with one exception.........they completely dominate their opponents.

[justinevans]

The only reason I've ever really gone to Walmart is because it was convenient and the closest thing to me. Most of the products I buy anyone would only save me a couple pennies from any other store. The reason they can shave those pennies off is because they often cut out the middle man. However, I've also worked at other retail type stores and the markup on things such as clothing is ridiculous. The small man should have no problem doing alright.

For example surfers, those board shorts you buy are marked up over 100% more times than not. The most expensive wholesale boardshort or short I've seen is maybe 28$.

[oldwirehands]

My thoughts on the subject:

Wal-Mart is a 24 hour flee market where you can find the most disgusting people at any time of the day, any day of the week. I hate that store. Rarely buy anything from there and avoid being in their stores at all cost. Though I have seen some nice stores but most of them look so trashy it makes me want to puke.

[oldwirehands]

You know what else is convenient? The internet. I can buy anything I want right right now and have it at my doorstep tomorrow morning. If I want to save money, I'll do it the old fashion way and budget. People want more than what they can have so they sqeeze every penny. I had a guy at work complain about paying 84 cents in tax... Thats not even a dollar but he didn't want to pay it. This type of thing happens all over the place, everyday. What is more important, TV or food? People won't give up TV so they'll almost starve themselves just to watch it.

[x togepi x]

FYE is not just a mall store.

I did not know that.

[justinevans]

I did not know that.

Not to say they aren't mostly, but it is pretty much the "high-end" store though nothing about it is high-end.

[open mind]

I don't care if malls don't have *as* horrible records in exploitation, they have horrible records in exploitation.

If you're going to criticize walmart for something, don't hold up something else like a mall up as a good example when in reality, it's just slightly less bad. it's like saying that you're antiwar, but murder's okay because only one person dies.

you brought up malls, and i just pointed out that they generally aren't as bad as walmart, when you did so climb off that high horse.
a blanket statement like malls have horrible exploitation records isn't true all the time, there are plenty of places that don't rely on products made in sweatshops, deny workers promotions based on gender, and pretty much deny thier employees any real benefits.

[x togepi x]

you brought up malls, and i just pointed out that they generally aren't as bad as walmart, when you did so climb off that high horse.
a blanket statement like malls have horrible exploitation records isn't true all the time, there are plenty of places that don't rely on products made in sweatshops, deny workers promotions based on gender, and pretty much deny thier employees any real benefits.

But you're wrong when you say malls aren't as bad as walmart. I have had tons of friends work at both walmart and various malls, and they all complain about being treated poorly by the companies that they work for in exactly the same way.

Let's talk about how malls treat their workers.

I had a friend who worked at Hollister. They made her stay overtime for a few hours every single night without pay. When she tried to miss one of those mandatory unpaid overtime sessions because she had a family emergency, she got fired. Yeah, that sounds like she was well treated.

How about the fact that certain stores in the mall like Abercrombie hire or at least used to hire based on the way someone looks. Yeah, that's totally fair. ugly people don't need to work.

How about the fact that it is easier to work full time at Walmart than at a mall? Most stores in the mall actually won't give people full time. So, when you're saying "yeah malls give people benefits!", it's actually not true because the only people that get benefits are those who are lucky enough to somehow been able to work full time. Most people don't get shit.

Oh, malls don't use sweatshop labor? That's laughable. Here's a tip. If it's easy to find, and cheap, it was probably made in a sweatshop.

But just to prove my point. Let's look up some stores in the mall on Knowmore.org

Abercrombie (http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/rs/profile.cfm?id=178)

"
Discrimination

In January 2005, Abercrombie agreed to pay $40 million to settle a class-action discrimination lawsuit brought by nine former employees who claimed they were fired, or hidden--asked to work in storage rooms or put on overnight shifts--because they didn't fit into the "Abercrombie look" enough to work with the public. The settlement applies to all women and all African Americans, Asian Americans and Latinos who either applied for a job at an Abercrombie store (or attempted to do so and were discouraged), or were employed there between February 24, 1999 and November 16, 2004.
-- Business Wire, 01/24/2005
Source URL: none available

Sweatshop Labor

In 2002, Abercrombie was one of 22 companies that paid $22 million to settle a lawsuit filed in U.S. courts by factory workers from Saipan who claimed that they made clothes in sweatshops.
-- Associated Press, 04/25/2003
Source URL: none available

Products

Abercrombie & Fitch received heavy criticism for selling thong underwear for children bearing slogans such as "eye candy" and "wink, wink." The underwear was designed for girls as young as 10 years old.
-- CNN Money, 05/28/2002
Source URL: none available

Executive Compensation

In 2005, CEO Michael S. Jeffries earned $5.054 million in total compensation including stock option grants from Abercrombie & Fitch Co. From previous years, Jeffries cashed out $108.46 million in stock option exercises and has an additional $204.19 million in unexercised stock options.
-- AFL-CIO, 04/05/2006
Source URL: http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/ceou/database.cfm?tkr=AN... (http://http//www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/ceou/database.cfm?tkr=ANF&pg=1)

Legal Disputes

In February 2005, a shareholder of Abercrombie & Fitch filed a derivative lawsuit against the company and certain present and former directors. The lawsuit concerns the compensation arrangements involving Michael Jeffries, the company's chairman and chief executive.
-- CBS MarketWatch, 02/08/2005
Source URL: none available


In September 2004, a civil lawsuit alleging photos were taken of girls in dressing rooms at an Abercrombie & Fitch store was settled for an undisclosed sum. According to the lawsuit a friend of an Abercrombie & Fitch employee was able to cut a hole in the ceiling and take the pictures. The lawsuit claims a woman learned that photos were taken of her when an acquaintance told her that employees were bragging about it and passing around pictures. Abercrombie & Fitch has denied responsibility for the alleged actions.
-- Associated Press, 09/16/2004
Source URL: none available


In 2003, Abercrombie & Fitch paid a $2.2 million settlement after 11,000 employees in California sued and demanded reimbursement for clothes they were required to buy as a condition of their employment. Because the clothes were a job requirement, they were deemed uniforms, which must be paid for by employers under state labor regulations.
-- Patriot Ledger, 08/20/2004""

JC Penny (http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/rs/profile.cfm?id=245)


"
Sweatshop Labor

The National Labor Committee’s May 2006 report entitled " US-Jordan Free Trade Agreement: Descends into Human Trafficking & Involuntary Servitude," documented a series of worker rights’ violations in Honorway Jordan Ltd. and Atatek Garment textile factories which sew brands for JC Penny. The lack of respect for workers’ basic human rights included the following:

Human trafficking and involuntary servitude of guest workers
Confiscation of workers’ passports and denial of legally required identification cards
Routine work shifts of 15 to 15.5 hours. Typical work weeks were at least 95 hours
No sick days, paid vacations, or government holidays allowed
Wages below the legal minimum without overtime compensation
Sporadic pay
Inadequate and unsanitary working conditions
Workers subject to pay reduction, humiliation, violence and threats if production goals not met
Khokon Shaikh, who was forcibly returned to Bangladesh after working for Honorway Jordan Ltd, stated: “If you want to work here you have to accept [current working conditions], otherwise go back to Bangladesh.”
The NLC’s September 2006 update on Jordanian factories reported little progress in the JC Penney supplier factories. The report highlighted labor violations in Atateks Garment Factory, where labor practices remain unchanged. In August 2006, 10 workers were fired, imprisoned, beaten, and forcibly deported. Workers appealed to the Jordanian Ministry of Labor, Jordanian police and the Bangladesh Embassy to no avail.
-- National Labor Committee, 09/27/2006
Source URL: www.nlcnet.org/live/admin/media/document/ReportPDF/Jordan_Update_0609/... (http://www.nlcnet.org/live/admin/media/document/ReportPDF/Jordan_Update_0609/Update_Final_2.pdf)


Target and JCPenney continued to source from the Nobland garment factory in Guatemala despite management's aggressive opposition to union activity and the companies were slow to respond intervention requests by U.S. LEAP. Union organizers were subject to harassment and termination, and the factory was abruptly shut down in June 2005.
-- U.S. Labor Education in the Americas Project, 10/01/2005
Source URL: none available


According to the ICFTU, Sears and JCPenney source baby clothes from AAA Inc. in the Philippines, which fails to provide adequate sanitary facilities for workers and enforces tight restrictions on their use.
"Behind the Brand Names: Working Conditions and Labour Rights in Export Processing Zones"
-- International Confederation of Free Trade Unions, 12/01/2004
Source URL: none available


In October 2003, the National Labor Committee (NLC) published a report on the KB Manufacturing maquiladora in Nicaragua. KB is an important supplier of JCPenney apparel, specializing in suit jackets for men. Managers at the KB factory carried out a range of documented violations against Nicaraguan as well as international labor laws. Among the violations, workers cited forced overtime work, inaccurate or withheld overtime pay, extreme heat, unsafe cafeteria food, poor lighting, inadequate toilet facilities, and constant threats to move the factory if workers failed to increase productivity.
-- National Labor Committee, 10/01/2003
Source URL: www.nlcnet.org (http://www.nlcnet.org/)


In April 2003 a federal court on the Pacific island of Saipan approved a $20 million settlement on a class action lawsuit filed against JCPenney and 21 other companies. The lawsuit charged that the companies contracted sweatshop labor on Saipan, a U.S. Commonwealth and should be held accountable for worker treatment and conditions in foreign-owned factories operating on U.S. soil. According to the complaint, the more than 30,000 garment workers involved regularly worked 12-hour days, seven days a week, often times "off the clock" without receiving any pay or overtime. The lawsuit also accused JCPenney and the other companies of operating a "racketeering conspiracy" through which workers, who are mostly young women, sign contracts waiving their basic human rights and pay recruitment fees of up to $10,000 to secure sweatshop jobs.By agreeing to the terms of the settlement, the companies admitted no wrongdoing.
-- Associated Press, 04/25/2003
Source URL: none available


According to CorpWatch, JCPenney is one of several U.S. corporations employing 40 thousand factory workers in Jordan’s Qualified Industrial Zones. Posited as a product of Jordan’s 1994 peace agreement with Israel, which permitted Jordan to export products duty free to the United States provided at least eight percent of their industrial inputs come from Israel, these factories have yet to establish standards for treatment of workers. Of the 40 thousand workers in the Qualified Industrial Zones, fewer than half are Jordanian. Ninety percent are women under the age of 22, and most pay the minimum wage, about $3.50 a day. A Jordanian human rights official described the workers’ living conditions as complying with minimum human rights standards permitted by US retailers. "There are 80 people per floor, ten rooms in each," he explained, "there are eight people per room and five and a half square feet of space for each according to JCPenney's specifications."
-- CorpWatch, 02/26/2003
Source URL: www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=5688 (http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=5688)


In August 2001 federal authorities shut down a San Francisco garment plant that produced clothing for JCPenney saying that it operated without a license and owed workers more than $850,000. Owners of the Wins garment factory denied the charges saying, "The workers knew the company had problems. So they held on to their checks to help the company until the company could turn around." However, federal officials stated that the owners made $1.2 million from another business operation during the same time period.
-- Sweatshop Watch, 12/01/2001
Source URL: none available

Products

In 2003, Federated Department Stores, Kmart and JC Penney were among the list of retailers implicated for selling costume jewelry containing unsafe levels of lead. The Center for Environmental Health selected hundreds of pieces of costume jewelry to undergo safety testing, and more than one-third of the items chosen had concentrations of lead that could pose a significant health risk to children and adults alike.
-- Center for Environmental Health
Source URL: http://www.cehca.org/jewelry.htm (http://http//www.cehca.org/jewelry.htm)

Sweatshop Labor

According to a 2004 U.S. Labor Education in the Americas Project (US LEAP) report, workers at the Nobland Guatemala garment factory were subjected to ongoing harassment and abuse at the hands of the facility’s management. Factory employees who had successfully unionized were met with intimidation and death threats by a management-supported anti-union group. Union leader Rosa Lopez was even physically assaulted by Nobland plant manager Yong Ha Kim. The union was calling on major clients to cease purchasing from Nobland, not only in Guatemala but all around the globe. Clients of Nobland have included JCPenney, Target, Liz Claiborne, and DKNY. The sudden closure of Nobland Guatemala in 2005 has left workers without due severance and no time to seek alternative employment.
-- U.S. Labor Education in the Americas Project
Source URL: www.usleap.org (http://www.usleap.org/)


A July 2003 investigation by the Philippine Daily Inquirer uncovered sweatshop abuses by Anvil Ensembles, a producer of baby clothes. The Inquirer exposed instances of management giving workers amphetamines to keep them awake for 48- and 72-hour shifts, failing to pay minimum wages, and providing substandard latrines. J.C. Penney and Sears both subcontracted with Anvil as of July 2003.
-- Philippine Daily Inquirer, 07/03/2003
Source URL: www.tucp.org.ph/projects/sweatshops/anvil/sleepless.htm (http://www.tucp.org.ph/projects/sweatshops/anvil/sleepless.htm)


In December 2000, the Department of Labor released the finding of an investigation into the Daewoosa clothing factory in American Samoa that made apparel for JCPenney and other clothing retailers. The Labor Department reported that workers at the factory were often beaten and "management admits that they withhold meals from employees as a form of punishment when workers complain about food." According to The New York Times, workers were fed rice and cabbage and lived 36 to a room. The newspaper also revealed that three workers escaped to a Christian refuge in 1999 after not being fed for two days. In December 2000, after the Department of Labor revealed the results of its investigation, JCPenney canceled its contracts with the supplier and stopped selling clothing bought from Daewoosa. In February 250 workers from Daewoosa sued the company for nonpayment of wages, poor working conditions, and brutality by their bosses. In 2002 the High Court of American Samoa has awarded nearly $3.5 million in back pay and damages to 265 Asians kept for months as indentured servants.
-- National Labor Committee, 01/23/2001
Source URL: www.nlcnet.org/campaigns/archive/samoa/Letter_to_JCPenny.shtml (http://www.nlcnet.org/campaigns/archive/samoa/Letter_to_JCPenny.shtml)

Ethics

JCPenney is listed in a Government Accounting Office database of more than 900 publicly traded companies that have restated their financial results because of accounting irregularities since the beginning of 1997. JCPenney was listed for a 2000 restatement for revenue recognition related issues.
-- Government Accounting Office
Source URL: www.gao.gov (http://www.gao.gov/)

Discrimination

According to the National Organization for Women, JCPenney implemented a mandatory arbitration policy without getting the consent of its employees. The policy also prohibits litigation.
-- National Organization for Women, 10/01/1997
Source URL: www.now.org/nnt/10-97/wfwarb.html?NS-search-set=/37f24/aaayVZNW.f24cc6... (http://www.now.org/nnt/10-97/wfwarb.html?NS-search-set=/37f24/aaayVZNW.f24cc6&NS-doc-offset=0&)


JCPenney received a "D" grade on the 2004 NAACP Economic Reciprocity Initiative report. The grade reflects a measurement of corporate America's commitment to the African American citizenry and other people of color. Companies were surveyed for their activity in employment, vendor development and contracting, advertising and marketing, dealerships and philanthropy.
-- NAACP
Source URL: www.naacp.org (http://www.naacp.org/)


During the 2002-2003 fiscal year, Trillium Asset Management filed a shareholder resolution on behalf of JCPenney investors requesting that the company develop a formal employment policy relating to sexual discrimination. Of its major competitors, including Federated/May Department Stores, Sears, and Nordstrom, JCPenney is the one retail giant lacking an explicit policy against this type of discrimination, causing concern among some investors. The resolution called for a revised equal opportunity employment policy including specific guidelines guaranteeing impartiality on the basis sexual orientation. Also included in the resolution was an appeal for strict implementation of such a policy.
-- Trillium Asset Management
Source URL: www.trilliuminvest.com/pages/activism/activism_resdetail.asp?Resolutio... (http://www.trilliuminvest.com/pages/activism/activism_resdetail.asp?ResolutionID =58)

Labor

In April 2001, Nicaraguan court ordered Chentex, a Taiwanese-owned maquila that was making jeans for Kohl's, J.C. Penney, Kmart, and Wal-Mart to rehire nine illegally fired union leaders. Chentex had been targeted by the National Labor Committee for its union-busting activity, while workers earned just 18 cents for each $24 pair of pants they sewed.
-- U.S. Labor Education in the Americas Project
Source URL: www.usleap.org/Maquilas/PastMaquilaCampaigns.html#nica (http://www.usleap.org/Maquilas/PastMaquilaCampaigns.html#nica)"

Sears (http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/rs/profile.cfm?id=286)

"
Labor

The Ethical Trading Action Group (ETAG), in association with Maquila Solidarity Network (MSN) and AccountAbility, released a report entitled "Transparency Report Card 2006," evaluating and comparing 31 apparel retailers and brands in their efforts to address worker rights in their global supply chain. Retailers were rated in areas such as compliance with International Labor Organization standards (ILO), methods of monitoring code compliance, steps taken to communicate thoroughly, effectively, and transparently to the public. Sears earned a score of 8 out of 100. In 2005, Sears' score was 5 out of 100.
-- Maquila Solidarity Network, 12/01/2006
Source URL: www.maquilasolidarity.org/campaigns/reportcard/report%20card%202006/pd... (http://www.maquilasolidarity.org/campaigns/reportcard/report%20card%202006/pdf/Revealing%20Clothing.pdf)

Sweatshop Labor

The National Labor Committee’s May 2006 report entitled “US-Jordan Free Trade Agreement: Descends into Human Trafficking & Involuntary Servitude,” documents violations of workers’ rights in numerous Jordanian factories. Factories included Al Shahaed Apparel & Textile and Honorway Jordan Ltd. Both of these factories sow for K-Mart’s discount brand names, a division of Sears Holding. The lack of respect for workers’ basic human rights included the following:
Human trafficking and involuntary servitude of guest workers
Confiscation of workers’ passports and denial of legally required identification cards
Routine work shifts of 15 to 16 hours. More commonly, workers were forced to work through 38, 48, and even 72 hour shifts at Al Shahaed Apparel & Textile
No sick days, paid vacations, or government holidays allowed
Wages below the legal minimum
Sporadic pay
Inadequate and unsanitary working conditions
Reports of sexual abuse and rape
Workers subject to pay reductions, humiliation, violence, and threats if production goals not met
Khokon Shaikh, who was forcibly returned to Bangladesh after working for Honorway Jordan Ltd, stated, “If you want to work here you have to accept [current working conditions], otherwise go back to Bangladesh.”
-- National Labor Committee, 05/01/2006
Source URL: www.nlcnet.org/live/article.php?id=10 (http://www.nlcnet.org/live/article.php?id=10)

Deforestation

Rainforest Relief won a major battle in its efforts to protect endangered rainforests by securing an agreement with Kmart to end its sale of Martha Stewart outdoor furniture made of Nyatoh tropical hardwood. Sears, which is now owned by Kmart Corporation, has made no such commitment, which has sparked some concern. Rainforest Relief’s Tim Keating explained that the organization may decide to take action against Sears if it continues to sell outdoor furniture produced with wood products, such as Nyatoh, originating from endangered forest areas.
-- Rainforest Relief, 09/01/2005
Source URL: www.rainforestrelief.org (http://www.rainforestrelief.org/)

Discrimination

In 2004 the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) sued Sears for discriminating against workers who spend more than one year on extended disability leave. The suit was filed on behalf of an employee who allegedly was injured at a Sears store in Illinois and was fired after a year on disability. The lawsuit contends that the company refused to find tasks he could perform while injured and fired him because he could not return to his old job.
-- Council for Disability Rights, 09/01/2005
Source URL: none available

Sweatshop Labor

Gelmart Industries facilities in the Philippines are reported to operate under conditions that violate ILO standards and Philippine labor laws. Gelmart assembles intimate apparel for companies such as Kmart/Sears and Wal-Mart. Workers are paid less than the national minimum wage, forced to work as many as 22 hours during peak seasons in order to keep their jobs; conditions in the factories have reportedly endangered employee health.
-- BehindTheLabel.org, 02/23/2005
Source URL: www.behindthelabel.org/infocus.asp?id=86 (http://www.behindthelabel.org/infocus.asp?id=86)

Corporate Influence

In 2004, Sears was accused of contributing campaign funds to the political action committee associated with Tom DeLay, Texans for a Republican Majority, which is a violation of campaign finance laws in Texas. Charges against the company were dropped following an agreement by Sears to cooperate in the state’s investigation of other corporations suspected to have breached strict campaign finance regulations. Sears executives maintain that no illegal activity transpired.
-- Associated Press, 12/30/2004
Source URL: none available

Sweatshop Labor

According to a report by Oxfam, Target, Sears and Tommy Hilfiger brands source from a factory in Guandong, China where management routinely hides evidence of poor labor conditions in order to pass screens. Regular violations include the following:
Workers take on between 80 and 180 hours of uncompensated overtime each month when the legal limit is 36 hours.
40% of workers are not receiving minimum wage according to the number of hours they work.
Two or three times monthly workers are required to work through the night but are not paid overtime hourly wages. They are instead compensated according to piece-rate pay.
Between two to three women each week suffer head injuries after fainting from exhaustion.
Management maintains the appearance of compliance through false records of hours and wages, prepared answers for employees to give inspectors and threats against workers should they expose the truth.
"Trading Away Our Rights: Working Women in Global Supply Chains."
-- Oxfam, 02/08/2004
Source URL: none available

Discrimination

In 2002 Sears Logistics, which provides distribution, home delivery and transportation services for Sears Roebuck, agreed to pay $93,000 to four former employees in a settlement with the EEOC over a sexual harrassment lawsuit. The workers alleged they were harassed by their manager at a Texas warehouse. The EEOC said one was unlawfully terminated from her employment in retaliation for her opposition to the harassment. The employees said they complained to supervisors and managers but none of them took any corrective action.
-- Dallas Business Journal, 11/05/2002
Source URL: none available

Sweatshop Labor

Sears received a D- on Co-op America’s Retail Scorecard for a history of sourcing its clothing and other products from known sweatshops.
-- Co-op America
Source URL: www.coopamerica.org (http://www.coopamerica.org/)

Ethics

The State of Tennessee sued Sears, Roebuck and Company for violating the Tennessee Consumer Protection Act of 1977. According to Tennessee’s Attorney General, Sears failed to file "reaffirmation agreements" for individuals who had filed for bankruptcy, and unlawfully pressured such persons to continue payments on their Sears credit lines.
-- State of Tennessee, 01/24/2005
Source URL: http://www.state.tn.us/consumer/pdf/actions/searsact1.pdf (http://http//www.state.tn.us/consumer/pdf/actions/searsact1.pdf)

Sweatshop Labor

According to the ICFTU, Sears and JC Penney source baby clothes from AAA Inc. in the Philippines, which fails to provide adequate sanitary facilities for workers and enforces tight restrictions on their use.
"Behind the Brand Names: Working Conditions and Labour Rights in Export Processing Zones"
-- International Confederatin of Free Trade Unions, 12/01/2004
Source URL: none available

Labor

In China, Sears buyers are moving their orders from state-owned factories in the north to foreign, privately owned plants in the south where wages can be half of those paid in the north. Factories in the south keep costs down by cutting benefits such as sick pay, pension insurance, and maternity leave, which are paid in the state-owned factories in the north. They also force their employees to work even longer hours and make far more use of subcontracting than those in the north.
-- San Francisco Chronicle, 01/04/2004
Source URL: none available

Sweatshop Labor

A July 2003 investigation by the Philippine Daily Inquirer uncovered sweatshop abuses by Anvil Ensembles, a producer of baby clothes. The Inquirer exposed instances of management giving workers amphetamines to keep them awake for 48- and 72-hour shifts, failing to pay minimum wages, and providing substandard latrines. J.C. Penney and Sears both subcontracted with Anvil as of July 2003.
-- Philippine Daily Inquirer, 07/03/2003
Source URL: www.tucp.org.ph/projects/sweatshops/anvil/sleepless.htm (http://www.tucp.org.ph/projects/sweatshops/anvil/sleepless.htm)


Sears Roebuck is one of 21 U.S. corporations implicated in a $20 million dollar class action lawsuit, which was approved by a U.S. District Judge in April of 2003. According to the settlement, more than 30,000 Saipan factory employees who labored in sweatshop conditions during various times since 1989, are entitled to monetary compensation for back pay and damages. The settlement also details a code of conduct for Saipan factory owners and a factory-monitoring program.
-- Associated Press, 04/25/2003
Source URL: none available

Discrimination

In 2003 Sears reached a $125,000 court settlement in an EEOC lawsuit that claimed the company hired a blind man as a credit collections specialist but failed to provide him with the proper equipment to allow him to do his job thereby violating the Americans With Disabilities Act. The EEOC is sought back pay and compensatory and punitive damages against Sears Roebuck.
-- U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, 01/10/2003
Source URL: http://www.eeoc.gov/litigation/settlements/settlement01-03.html (http://http//www.eeoc.gov/litigation/settlements/settlement01-03.html)

Sweatshop Labor

The US Department of Labor urged California's Labor Commissioner in October 2002 to help provide unpaid wages to more than 200 garment workers who were owed almost $1 million. The workers (mostly Chinese immigrant women) worked for months without pay at three San Francisco factories known as the Wins facilities. After labor violations at the factories were uncovered in 2001, proceeds from Wins shipments were directed into a fund designated for paying workers; now that Wins has filed for bankruptcy, creditors are attempting to claim those funds instead. Wins made clothing for customers that included Sears, Wal-Mart, Kmart, and J.C. Penney.
-- San Francisco Chronicle, 01/01/2003
Source URL: none available


The National Labor Committee published a report in March of 2001 implicating several major U.S. clothing retailers for their relationships with a notorious sweatshop on U.S. territory. The paper, "Made in the U.S.A.? Nightmare at the Daewoosa Factory in American Samoa" exposed the nightmarish conditions under which workers were forced to perform their daily duties. Employees were, for all intents and purposes, indentured servants as the condition on which they were brought to the U.S. and allowed to remain. Abuses against over 230 employees included physical assault, starvation, sexual harassment, and withholding pay. Workers were under constant threat of deportation. Among the list of retailers patronizing the Daewoosa garment factory were Wal-Mart (Beach Cabana label), Target (Pro Spirit label), Sears (David Taylor), David Peyser Sportswear (MV Sport) and J.C. Penney (Arizona).
-- National Labor Committee, 03/01/2001
Source URL: http://www.nlcnet.org/campaigns/archive/samoa/ (http://http//www.nlcnet.org/campaigns/archive/samoa/)

Discrimination

In 2004 Sears agreed to pay $82,500 to settle a lawsuit with the EEOC regarding a 1999 complaint filed by three female employees who alleged a Manchester California operations manager physically and verbally harassed them. Sears denied any wrongdoing but also will not rehire the operations manager and said it will reissue its sexual harassment policy and provide training for all of its Fresno employees.
-- U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
Source URL: none available

Sweatshop Labor

As of March 2001 Sears was selling clothing produced at the Leader Garment factory in El Salvador. The Leader facility has been cited by the National Labor Committee as a facility that enforces mandatory pregnancy tests--women who test positive are immediately fired, obligatory overtime of 6 working days a week 13 hour shifts, and workers are paid 60 cents an hour - less than one-third of the cost of living.
-- National Labor Committee
Source URL: www.nlcnet.org (http://www.nlcnet.org/)

Discrimination

Sears received an "F" grade on the 2006 NAACP Economic Reciprocity Initiative report. The grade reflects a measurement of corporate America's commitment to the African American citizenry and other people of color. Companies were surveyed for their activity in employment, vendor development and contracting, advertising and marketing, dealerships and philanthropy.
-- NAACP, 07/18/2006
Source URL: www.naacp.org (http://www.naacp.org/)


In 2004 the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission filed a lawsuit against Sears, claiming that the company illegally fired Edward Broadard, a former store manager, because he was black. Sears has denied the allegations saying Broadard allowed workers who were not certified technicians to perform mechanical repairs and did not follow procedures for providing free mechanical service to customers. The EEOC said Sears did not terminate similarly ranked white employees who engaged in similar or identical conduct.
-- New York Times, 11/11/2004
Source URL: none available

Privacy

In May 2004 Sears agreed to pay more than $60 million to settle class-action litigation in California that alleged Sears wrongly shared customer information with affiliates and third parties. The lawsuit alleged the third-party vendors marketed products to some 4 million California cardholders. Plaintiffs claimed Sears, which receives up to 20% of the price of each service or program vendors sold, failed to inform cardholders of the disclosure.
-- BNA's Banking Report, 05/17/2004
Source URL: none available

Worker Benefits

In March 2002 a judge approved a settlement in which Sears would pay $28 million to 56,000 retirees of the company whose life insurance benefits were cut in 1997. The settlement will only restore a fraction of their life insurance benefits. A lawsuit was filed in 1997 after Sears decision to unilaterally cut $60 million of costs by reducing company-paid life insurance benefits for more than 80,000 former employees who retired between 1978 and 1997. The number of retirees shrunk as many died over the years. One hundred dollar Sears gift certificates were awarded to the estates of those retirees who died during the course of the lawsuit.
-- Chicago Sun-Times, 03/06/2002
Source URL: none available

Shareholder Resolutions

In 2002, Sears shareholders voted on a resolution requesting that the Board of Directors improve company purchasing standards and work to thoroughly implement those policies. The resolution called for Sears to develop vendor and purchasing standards comparable to those outlined by the International Labor Organization, and to solidify those standards by developing an independent process by which to ensure compliance. Additionally, the resolution requested that an independent report be produced annually to determine the success, or lack thereof, of strict standard implementation.
-- Interfaith Center for Corporate Responsibility
Source URL: http://www.iccr.org/shareholder/proxy_book03/gca/vs_sears.htm (http://http//www.iccr.org/shareholder/proxy_book03/gca/vs_sears.htm)

Lobbying Expenditures

Sears, Roebuck, & Co, as the top client of the OB-C Group LLC, spent $1,800,000 from 1998-2004. Sears spent over $3,200,000 on lobbying overall during this period, with $700,000 coming in 2004 alone. Its annual expenditures have risen dramatically, doubling since the early 2000s.
-- Center for Public Integrity, 06/26/1905
Source URL: www.publicintegrity.org/lobby/profile.aspx?act=clients&year=2003&cl=L0... (http://www.publicintegrity.org/lobby/profile.aspx?act=clients&year=2003&cl=L002685)

Corporate Influence

From 2001-2002, Sears and/or individuals associated with the corporation gave $489,737 in soft money donations to political parties, with 95% of those donations going to the Republican Party. Sears has given just under $600,000 to the RNC in soft money, over $21,000 in hard money to President Bush, and $282,000 in PAC money to Republicans since the year 2000.
-- Center for Responsive Politics, 06/09/2003
Source URL: www.opensecrets.org/softmoney/softcomp2.asp?txtName=Sears%2C+Roeb uck+%... (http://www.opensecrets.org/softmoney/softcomp2.asp?txtName=Sears%2C+Roeb uck+%26+Co&txtUltOrg=y&txtSort=name&txtCycle=2002)"


So yeah, while Walmart is a really bad company, Malls are just as bad. The problems of discrimination, no unionization, treating employees horribly and on and on are problem across the board in corporations.

Also, you can't criticize me for making a "blanket statement" about malls and saying "well it's not true all thle time" because the same can go for walmarts. All the management at my local walmart are women. One of my best friends loved his job there.

[rocktometal]

this discussion seems to be over