I Have So Much Respect for Vinnie

[Jason Tate]

Vinnie (Less Than Jake) (http://www.absolutepunk.net/lessthanjake) has left Fueled by Ramen Records (http://www.fueledbyramen.com) (a label he once co-owned).
Let me just go ahead and pull the band aid off really quickly to this, Months ago I decided to leave FUELED BY RAMEN, the record company that I had helped build up for the last 10 years. A few weeks ago everything was finalized so I figured since the new year is coming up quick and new starts are coming up quicker this is a perfect time to say a few last things.
I remember there was a time when I drove all night, behind the wheel of our tour van, I just had gotten the mixes to THE IMPOSSIBLES first record and I thought it was amazing. I fell in love with it, I listened to it for hours and hours, over and over on the drive. Words couldn’t and still can’t describe how excited I was to have a chance at releasing that record. In Chicago I had gotten a demo tape of 3 songs from ANIMAL CHIN, I literally knew after listening to those songs once that I wanted to release anything they ever recorded. Hell the same exact thing happened when I was in Australia and got a BLUELINE MEDIC demo passed to me and thought they were channeling the ghost of JAWBREAKER. That’s how good it was. You know the feeling when a band becomes your favorite band? The song or the experience while listening to the songs that stays with you? Well now imagine how it feels to be able to put out your favorite bands record. Not just once but time after time. When the label first started I sat on the side of the stage in Jacksonville, Florida and watched ANN BERETTA play songs that would become a CD I would release later, I sang every song with them on the side of the stage, I sang every lyric. I believed every word of it. Listening to GYM CLASS HEROES when there was no loops or drum machine, it was guys playing this amazing music, and travis telling stories over it. I was blown away with the lyrics and the melody. I was on the outskirts of Boston when I listened to it through headphones, I knew right then Fueled By Ramen had to release it, there was no business planned behind it, there was no marketing plan, this was me loving a band, it was blind faith that I just loved the music and hoped other people would also. It was me walking around the parking lot of the hotel again and again playing it on repeat. Being able to put out music from THE PIETASTERS, TEEN IDOLS, DISCOUNT, BIG WIG, JIMMY EAT WORLD, PUNCHLINE, KANE HODDER, and THE STEREO were easy descisions to make simply because I was fans of the bands already,I had all the old records, I had shared stages with some of them, some I had been friends with for years, those bands at different times were the soundtrack and background music to amazing parts of my life. Watching FALLOUTBOY, and THE ACADEMY IS… grow from pratice spaces to playing over crowded shows filled with people that know every word to every single song makes me proud to have been involved, even if it was for a small piece and for a brief time. My point from all this? Basically the same reason I started the label is ultimately the same reason why I left Fueled By Ramen, and that is passion for the music. I didn’t feel the same way for some of the bands we had talked about signing in the future or the direction that the label was taking. I always prided myself on the thought of a label being equal parts about creativity and business but months back I felt like music was more about being famous then the actual songs themselves, it felt like style was outwieghing substance. At one point I wasn’t feeling the same passion for the direction the label was headed. So faced with staying around and it just being “business as usual” or trying to steer an iceberg in the way I wanted the direction of the label to go. I decided that it was time for me to step aside and let the label grow with its natural progression. Music has always been the one thing I count on, the very first thing and last thing I do every day and I want to feel that way until the day I die. I want to love the music that I’m involved with. I want it to become my favorite bands. You know, there’s a point when things have to be good on the insides, my insides and my head wanted to do something different. I have an incedible amount of respect for everyone that worked day in and day out for the label and continues to do so as I type this. To everyone that worked countless hours because of passion for the bands, the label and music I have to thank you for the inspiration to move on in my own direction. I’ve made friends and made family working through fueled by ramen over the years I hope the best for everyone in the future.
Much respect.
Submitted by 1994

[R7265ab]

Well said.

[Burnout2888]

Wow.

[robdobi]

vinnie is tops.

the old FBR roster is pretty incredible and i've been listening to the impossibles / thestereo all day. i got into JEW by vinnie's old hollywoodandvine newsletter. why no cadillac blindside love?

thanks for putting out some awesome records homie.

[Jason Tate]

vinnie is tops.

the old FBR roster is pretty incredible and i've been listening to the impossibles / thestereo all day. i got into JEW by vinnie's old hollywoodandvine newsletter. why no cadillac blindside love?

thanks for putting out some awesome records homie.
And I heard of Animal Chin from you.

[Tony Pascarella]

Props, Vinnie. :appl:

He had a good run with FBR, but it's plain to see that the bands just aren't as dedicated as they once were. It's sad, but I think it's better than standing behind something you don't believe in.

I give him a lot of credit for sticking to his guns and his morals. Part of the reason I love Less Than Jake so much.

[thatwasamoment]

end of an era, and a start of a new, shittier one.

[Gitch]

I admire him a great deal after this, leaving a rather successful label when he could easily make a quick buck, but instead he wants to put out good music, not music that will sell well. Kudos to Vinnie on truly being all about music, a true rareity in society today

[scott2h2o]

I knew the day would come. FBR suck. If you co-own a label and you in a band but DONT release albums under your own label there must be something wrong. FBR SUCKS!!!!

[Jason Tate]

Props, Vinnie. :appl:

He had a good run with FBR, but it's plain to see that the bands just aren't as dedicated as they once were. It's sad, but I think it's better than standing behind something you don't believe in.

I give him a lot of credit for sticking to his guns and his morals. Part of the reason I love Less Than Jake so much.
I was rocking all my LTJ last night while driving to my parents house -- such a great band. They get way more shit for their latest records than I think they deserve, I honestly like all their albums and only dislike a few songs they've ever made. Great band.

[AdamWASFearless]

rumor has it that he's starting another label with a certain rock star friend.

[Jonathan London]

Wow. And that Impossibles CD was the soundtrack to my senior year in highschool. I still have the first pressing of their first shirt with the giant FBR sumo logo on the back. I'm so thankful that Vinnie put their albums out, and Slowreader. And Punchline. And theStereo. I hope he starts a new label with some new bands. I loved his taste.

[IanIsSuperRad]

I remember when Fueled By Ramen used to be good. I suppose it's for the best. I'd like to think that Vinnie didn't have any influence in signing most of the bands that fill out FBR's roster right now. More than a few of them really really suck.

[Tony Pascarella]

I knew the day would come. FBR suck. If you co-own a label and you in a band but DONT release albums under your own label there must be something wrong. FBR SUCKS!!!!Do you have a clue how the music industry work? Why would Less Than Jake want to release with FBR when they can have a deal in place for 2 records with Sire? That's just simple music business.

[you'renotyou]

That right there is a man with integrity

[Riki]

A lot of respect for not only walking away with pride, but walking away without bitterness, allowing fans to know his reasons without being defamatory towards FBR.

Although I wonder how the decaydance culture attributed to his decision..

[Tony Pascarella]

rumor has it that he's starting another label with a certain rock star friend.I'll be honest. I think Vinnie was made to (besides bring us great music with LTJ) work with a label. He knows his shit, and he doesn't seem like one who'd jump on the latest, greatest trend. That said, FBR had some bands that went on to do amazing things.

I'd definitely support anything he does industry-wise for the future.

[robdobi]

also, some of those old funsize songs were AWESOME (they aren't listed anywhere on FBR's site) and limp? goddamn this label had some good bands at one point.

who remembers the yellow splash page w/ the GIANT animated gif of the sumo wrestlers?

[IanIsSuperRad]

I knew the day would come. FBR suck. If you co-own a label and you in a band but DONT release albums under your own label there must be something wrong. FBR SUCKS!!!!

Dexter Holland doesn't release Offspring cds on Nitro.

Bouncing Souls don't release their cds on Chunksaah.

Fat Mike (didn't use to) release NOFX cds on Fat Wreck.

Most bands don't release their own cds on thier own record labels. That's not thier point for starting them. It's so they can release cds of other bands.

[Jason Tate]

I'll be honest. I think Vinnie was made to (besides bring us great music with LTJ) work with a label. He knows his shit, and he doesn't seem like one who'd jump on the latest, greatest trend. That said, FBR had some bands that went on to do amazing things.

I'd definitely support anything he does industry-wise for the future.
I'd work for him.

[Jason Tate]

also, some of those old funsize songs were AWESOME (they aren't listed anywhere on FBR's site) and limp? goddamn this label had some good bands at one point.

who remembers the yellow splash page w/ the GIANT animated gif of the sumo wrestlers?
Limp! I miss Limp. I love that band.

[Tony Pascarella]

A lot of respect for not only walking away with pride, but walking away without bitterness, allowing fans to know his reasons without being defamatory towards FBR.

Although I wonder how the decaydance culture attributed to his decision..How do you think it contributed to it? Hahaha. You have a guy who's been around the block a few times, has signed some great bands, and lived out of a van for years. Now you have all these trend-hopping scenesters forming bands that can barely play their instruments. I'd be pretty pissed with the state of the scene unless I was in it to make a quick buck (which obviously Vinnie isn't). :shrug:

[dhammer]

I've been a huge fan of this label ever since its inception. Been an even bigger fan of Less Than Jake and Vinnie for even longer than that. I wish both Vinnie and FBR the best of luck in the future.

[FatJordan]

Wow. This guy does whatever he wants, and is probably the most respectable person to step foot in the scene. If not the most respectable...one of the top.

[Tony Pascarella]

I'd work for him.Me too. I'll be looking for an industry job at some point anyway :-D Haha.

But seriously, I've thought that John should be the business end and Vinnie do most of the A&R and Fueled By Ramen would be set. Obviously things changed.

I'm curious what the last band he personally brought onto the label was.

[Big_Guy]

I always wondered if it was Vinny that signed these new awful bands, but I guess it wasn't

this man is awesome for doing this, and maybe his new label will buy the old out of print FBR records and re-release them.

looking back, FBR had one of the best rosters of any label, and I hope his new label, if it happens, will have some great bands

[YourMusicSucks]

Sounds like he agrees with Jason about CIWWAF. :-D

[you'renotyou]

Me too. I'll be looking for an industry job at some point anyway :-D Haha.

But seriously, I've thought that John should be the business end and Vinnie do most of the A&R and Fueled By Ramen would be set. Obviously things changed.

I'm curious what the last band he personally brought onto the label was.

I'm thinking it was probably Kane Hodder. They were the last band I can remember them signing that doesn't sound like a wallet getting fatter

[Tony Pascarella]

I'm thinking it was probably Kane Hodder. They were the last band I can remember them signing that doesn't sound like a wallet getting fatterMaybe. If Pete Wentz didn't do it, I might have attributed Lifetime to Vinnie. To be honest, that's their best band right now. I hope they don't bastardize their new record.

[Jason Tate]

Sounds like he agrees with Jason about CIWWAF. :-D
:zip:

Oh noz.

[Jason Tate]

Maybe. If Pete Wentz didn't do it, I might have attributed Lifetime to Vinnie. To be honest, that's their best band right now. I hope they don't bastardize their new record.
They didn't - it's good.

;-)

[Big_Guy]

Sounds like he agrees with Jason about CIWWAF. :-D

does anyone think Cute Is What We Aim For is a good or talented band? saying CIWWAF is bad is like saying shit stinks

[Tony Pascarella]

Although the message from Vinnie leads me to believe maybe Gym Class Heroes was the last one he brought in. Is he sorta saying they sold out with that, or just he saw them back when they were really stripped down?

[losingstreakca]

i remember their old logo they had. i cant believe no one mentioned the hippos first full length. hell i really liked jersey to. shit i got into the alkaline trio and strike anywhere because they were both on an old FBR comp.

damn i really miss ann beretta.

[Tony Pascarella]

They didn't - it's good.

;-):-( I want.

Lucky beyotch.

[mpw]

FBR let a good things go.

i'd definatly like to meet this guy.

he has a good view on the music industry, and i respect that.

[YourMusicSucks]

does anyone think Cute Is What We Aim For is a good or talented band? saying CIWWAF is bad is like saying shit stinks

I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought otherwise haha

[Tony Pascarella]

does anyone think Cute Is What We Aim For is a good or talented band? saying CIWWAF is bad is like saying shit stinksA lot of people do. Why, I don't know. But they do say it.

I think FBR is going to strangle themselves in a year or two when these bands are going to have to think about follow-ups. With so little promotion and so little sales to show for it, either most of the roster will get dropped or we'll see a repeat performance and then they'll go the way of Kane Hodder and Days Away.

[Waitingtofall4]

I totally respect the shit outta this guy
I'm backing what he's saying about the direction of the label
The past two years or so, it's kinda gone down the drain
It's kinda weird when 12 year olds know what FBR is
I'm just really anxious for Lifetime
But it's a shame...Vinnie won't be able to put anything out for them

[robdobi]

i cant believe no one mentioned the hippos first full length.

holy crap, i totally forgot FBR even put that out.

i'm YSIing the first funsize full length on FBR now since its way out of print and i doubt anyone has heard it.

[you'renotyou]

Maybe. If Pete Wentz didn't do it, I might have attributed Lifetime to Vinnie. To be honest, that's their best band right now. I hope they don't bastardize their new record.

Did you listen to the 2 song? It was underproduced for FBR/Decaydance but for Lifetime that sounded very overproduced... Its definitely the best band on te label anymore... but it just doesn't sound like real Lifetime... Its too clean

[btbam > you]

much love and respect for vinnie. less than jake changed my life, as did the impossibles.

[miltownrob]

wtf? no panic namedrops

oh ya, he prolly hates them too

[Jason Tate]

Although the message from Vinnie leads me to believe maybe Gym Class Heroes was the last one he brought in. Is he sorta saying they sold out with that, or just he saw them back when they were really stripped down?

I thought the same thing -- that's what I read into it as well, though I'm not sure that's what he meant by it. Of course with the latest re-issue of the single -- I dunno? :shrug:

A lot of people do. Why, I don't know. But they do say it.

I think FBR is going to strangle themselves in a year or two when these bands are going to have to think about follow-ups. With so little promotion and so little sales to show for it, either most of the roster will get dropped or we'll see a repeat performance and then they'll go the way of Kane Hodder and Days Away.

I fear a Drive-Thru-esque backlash. Unless you're able to steer around it, I honestly predict history repeating itself.

[Tony Pascarella]

Did you listen to the 2 song? It was underproduced for FBR/Decaydance but for Lifetime that sounded very overproduced... Its definitely the best band on te label anymore... but it just doesn't sound like real Lifetime... Its too cleanI want to hear the full album at once. I didn't want to listen to 2 songs at a time and then maybe get let down.

[sell the sunris]

Very classy exit. Vinnie's always been a stand up dude, it's good to see something's don't change.

[Jason Tate]

Did you listen to the 2 song? It was underproduced for FBR/Decaydance but for Lifetime that sounded very overproduced... Its definitely the best band on te label anymore... but it just doesn't sound like real Lifetime... Its too clean
Stop talking now. It's produced by Steve Evetts, the man knows what he's doing.

[Big_Guy]

holy crap, i totally forgot FBR even put that out.

i'm YSIing the first funsize full length on FBR now since its way out of print and i doubt anyone has heard it.

Forget The World was great.

split release between FBR and Vagrant I believe

[bankrom]

Dexter Holland doesn't release Offspring cds on Nitro.

Bouncing Souls don't release their cds on Chunksaah.

Fat Mike (didn't use to) release NOFX cds on Fat Wreck.

Most bands don't release their own cds on thier own record labels. That's not thier point for starting them. It's so they can release cds of other bands.

really good point. props.

[Big_Guy]

Stop talking now. It's produced by Steve Evetts, the man knows what he's doing.

exactly, it's not like their older releases sound like Black Flag anyway. Clean production doesn't always = shit

[RememberFminus2]

ive been waiting for this, about time to. I really do think hes dissapointed in the direction GYM class took as well. that sucks i hope he starts another label.

[Tony Pascarella]

I thought the same thing -- that's what I read into it as well, though I'm not sure that's what he meant by it. Of course with the latest re-issue of the single -- I dunno? :shrug:

I fear a Drive-Thru-esque backlash. Unless you're able to steer around it, I honestly predict history repeating itself.The re-issue of the single...hmm. I like the song, and I like GCH. It just seems like everything happened so fast no one got to digest the first album. I couldn't believe they had #2 out so quickly.

Haha. Labels have off-years. Even The Militia Group after a great '05 had an off-year for '06, IMO. FBR had a good '05 as well with The Academy Is and Gym Class Heroes' releases. It's whether they can recover that second year. :shrug:

There were no strong indie labels this year, IMO. '06 seemed like the year of the major to me.

[Tony Pascarella]

holy crap, i totally forgot FBR even put that out.

i'm YSIing the first funsize full length on FBR now since its way out of print and i doubt anyone has heard it.Go for it, I'd like to hear it.

[Iamhome]

Props, Vinnie. :appl:

He had a good run with FBR, but it's plain to see that the bands just aren't as dedicated as they once were. It's sad, but I think it's better than standing behind something you don't believe in.

I give him a lot of credit for sticking to his guns and his morals. Part of the reason I love Less Than Jake so much.


Yeah, and the bands that are dedicated and hard working don't want to sign because they know they can do it on their own. Like my band. Although if Vinnie offered to manage us - I'm sure we'd take it. Especially after reading an article like this. It's good to see someone at a label who DOES choose what he loves over what makes him money.

-Josh
TAKETHEWORLD

[rosematter]

My question is who owns it now, Waner Music entirely or what, another seperate entity?

[Jason Tate]

exactly, it's not like their older releases sound like Black Flag anyway. Clean production doesn't always = shit
Bugs me when people get into that mentality, they want to hear a certain sound and basically make their mind up if they like it or not based on their own (flawed) preconceived dreams.

[Jason Tate]

My question is who owns it now, Waner Music entirely or what, another seperate entity?
I thought they had a deal with Atlantic, but I don't think Atlantic owns any of it. Janick I'm sure has the lions share.

[Jason Tate]

what you people are forgetting is that vinnie is probably got a few million from leaving the label. he did co-own it...
A "few" million? I dunno - that seems like a stretch to me. I think people have an overinflated idea of how much money record labels make.

[Tony Pascarella]

what you people are forgetting is that vinnie is probably got a few million from leaving the label. he did co-own it...I doubt it's a few million, honestly. The label had 1 platinum and 1 gold release (did TAI go gold?) in two years. Plus whatever Fall Out Boy money they still get from the double platinum on Island. Somehow I don't see millions in 50% ownership. :shrug:

[rosematter]

exactly, it's not like their older releases sound like Black Flag anyway. Clean production doesn't always = shit

I agree. God forbid a band gets enough money and support from a label to produce the record they truly are capable of, then it's overproduced. A good record is a good record, regardless of production. You can only polish a turd so much. Good songs are good songs, all the production (or lack of) in the world doesn't change the notes played or lyrics sung.

[lftcoastenvy05]

does anyone think Cute Is What We Aim For is a good or talented band? saying CIWWAF is bad is like saying shit stinks

band perspective: honestly, i think CIWWAF along with PATD and any other bands like them have played it right so far in the music industry. yes i think they dont have the talent most other bands have, but theyre gonna have no problem making it big just because people buy their records. not that i think its right to do, but if youre going to gamble your future by being in a crappy band, might as well sell out and make a load of money doing it.

label perspective: i respect vinnie for leaving FBR. FBR is just full of talentless bands now. i cant imagine running an indie label and fielding a roster of crappy bands while still having respect for myself. if he does start a new label like people have been hinting at, i expect it to be filled with insanely good, humble bands.

[rosematter]

I thought they had a deal with Atlantic, but I don't think Atlantic owns any of it. Janick I'm sure has the lions share.


Oh word, I just mispoke then. I was just wondering if Atlantic or whoever their deal is with bought it since that would make logical busines sense, then they could use it as an imprint.

[Jason Tate]

I wouldnt be suprised if maybe Atlantic or WMG finally bought FBR and vinnie left bc he got his big paycheck and didnt' like the label anymore
Or you could read what he actually wrote instead of speculating about a deal that is a figment of your imagination.

[Jason Tate]

Oh word, I just mispoke then. I was just wondering if Atlantic or whoever their deal is with bought it since that would make logical busines sense, then they could use it as an imprint.
Not that I, or anyone I speak to, know of.

[rosematter]

Not that I, or anyone I speak to, know of.


Nods, not saying happened or not, just curious is all.

Anyways, why does everyone always equate stuff like this to people getting their payday? After all the years of hard work that was put into FBR, all the pains of starting a label from the ground up into what it is now, I doubt V would just cash out and leave because he got a huge check.

[R7265ab]

think about it, labels get almost all the money from the band. if a band sells a million records - the label can at lease maybe 7 or more million from that. FBR had panic - about 1.4 million. FOB - gold for TTTYG and they get points on FUCT. academy sold over 100k. paramore is about 100k. etc. etc.

it can def. be 4 or 5 million

The label gets nowhere NEAR 7 dollars a record

[Drew Beringer]

Good for Vinnie, this label is just signing bands that all sound the same now. Minus Lifetime, oh dear God am I excited for Lifetime.

[dontfront]

Although the message from Vinnie leads me to believe maybe Gym Class Heroes was the last one he brought in. Is he sorta saying they sold out with that, or just he saw them back when they were really stripped down?

Yeah I got that same impression... but I doubt he feels like they sold out since he mentioned being really proud of where FOB and TAI... are at now, which is even further than where Gym Class is. But yeah I think Gym Class is probably his last signing that he really connected with musically etc.

Maybe I should start selling my stocks to FBR... hmm hmm. I agree maaad respect to Vinnie. Its guys like this that keep music alive... literally. So nice to know that there are respectable guys like this still out there really pushing their bands. Maybe this will make FBR re-think their strategies a little and take his outlook instead of their current one? Who knows...

[rosematter]

think about it, labels get almost all the money from the band. if a band sells a million records - the label can at lease maybe 7 or more million from that. FBR had panic - about 1.4 million. FOB - gold for TTTYG and they get points on FUCT. academy sold over 100k. paramore is about 100k. etc. etc.

it can def. be 4 or 5 million


Dude you definitely don't know the math of the music industry yet. Labels don't make near what you just said. I'm not saying they dont make money, but there is no way FBR made that much to give V a 5 million dollar buyout check. Not even close.

[permanentdan]

much respect vin. good luck in future endeavors man.

i hope he starts up a new label that fully represents how he feels and what he wants out of it all. and that he takes punchline with him..he can be the jerry maguire to their rod tidwell

[Tony Pascarella]

think about it, labels get almost all the money from the band. if a band sells a million records - the label can at lease maybe 7 or more million from that. FBR had panic - about 1.4 million. FOB - gold for TTTYG and they get points on FUCT. academy sold over 100k. paramore is about 100k. etc. etc.

it can def. be 4 or 5 millionAnd then consider the money they need to put out for tour support, marketing, recording, and such. That number can come down pretty quickly, especially when you consider that a label needs day-to-day cash assets. Labels get paid when bands recoup their accounts. Until then, the label's just laying out money hoping to get it back at a later date. While one hit will help probably cover a couple of unrecouped accounts, depending on the dollar figures we're talking, they're most likely not looking at essentially a multimillion dollar buyout. It just doesn't seem reasonable.

[rosematter]

And then consider the money they need to put out for tour support, marketing, recording, and such. That number can come down pretty quickly, especially when you consider that a label needs day-to-day cash assets. Labels get paid when bands recoup their accounts. Until then, the label's just laying out money hoping to get it back at a later date. While one hit will help probably cover a couple of unrecouped accounts, depending on the dollar figures we're talking, they're most likely not looking at essentially a multimillion dollar buyout. It just doesn't seem reasonable.


Exactly. It costs a lot of money to run a label, it's not profit just because CD's are cheap. The physical cost of the item is low, but it cost thousands of dollars to record a cd, and then promote it, and royalties, and blah blah blah, you get the idea.

[SellOuts]

Dude you definitely don't know the math of the music industry yet. Labels don't make near what you just said. I'm not saying they dont make money, but there is no way FBR made that much to give V a 5 million dollar buyout check. Not even close.

ok, how much does a labels make a cd?

[losingstreakca]

remember the slowreader record. damn that was a great release. if vinnie were to start a new label, i would love to see rory's new band be the first to sign.

[Jason Tate]

calm down jason.. i didnt say anything bad about any party. i am just saying that it could be possible. also, if it did happen vinnie wouldnt say it bc obviously fbr doesnt want people to know this happened if it happened.

Calm down? I'm perfectly calm. I'm just saying making up things is stupid. That's what you're doing. You're flat out - making things up! Just cause it "could be possible" - doesn't mean shit! It still you - MAKING IT UP. With absolutely ZERO credibility. It's fucking ridiculous.

Maybe aliens are now part owners in FBR and Vinnie doesn't want to be involved with the extra-terrestrial. See, I have as much credibility as you!

think about it, labels get almost all the money from the band. if a band sells a million records - the label can at lease maybe 7 or more million from that. FBR had panic - about 1.4 million. FOB - gold for TTTYG and they get points on FUCT. academy sold over 100k. paramore is about 100k. etc. etc.

it can def. be 4 or 5 million

You have no idea how the record industry and labels work do you?

[Jason Tate]

ok, how much does a labels make a cd?
Yes, you're right - there's a set amount for every CD. An exact number for every CD, from every artist.

Dude. Just stop.

[you'renotyou]

Bugs me when people get into that mentality, they want to hear a certain sound and basically make their mind up if they like it or not based on their own (flawed) preconceived dreams.

Isn't it against those rules of good arguing to attack the person (especially when that attack is entirely off based)? I didn't say the 2 song was bad, I didn't say that clean production=shit, I didn't Evetts didn't know what he was doing (I knew his name right away though, as well as knowing that he released the 2nd Story of the Year record) and I certainly didn't say I didn't like it. What I did say is that it doesn't sound like Lifetime of old, in otherwords, it is a bastardized version of Lifetime.

[SellOuts]

Calm down? I'm perfectly calm. I'm just saying making up things is stupid. That's what you're doing. You're flat out - making things up! Just cause it "could be possible" - doesn't mean shit! It still you - MAKING IT UP. With absolutely ZERO credibility. It's fucking ridiculous.

Maybe aliens are now part owners in FBR and Vinnie doesn't want to be involved with the extra-terrestrial. See, I have as much credibility as you!



You have no idea how the record industry and labels work do you?

i guess im wrong. sorry tate. just delete my posts, i was wrong (no sarcasm)

[rosematter]

ok, how much does a labels make a cd?


Depends on the ammount sold. Over 80% of the cost of a label are fixed costs (costs that don't change based upon the number of cds sold).

You have to remember that no matter how many cds a label sells, it's costs for marketing, recording, rent, utilities, salaries, and ect don't change much. Therefore labels make much more money off of cds that sell more. It really depends on the individual artist though, but trust me, for the first 100k copies of a cd to sell, they're not making close to $7 a cd as you implied earlier.

[robdobi]

Go for it, I'd like to hear it.

funsize - glad to see you're not dead, fueled by ramen 1998

http://www.yousendit.com/download/B0A4pwMvbWx5TA%3D%3D

[you'renotyou]

funsize - glad to see you're not dead, fueled by ramen 1998

http://www.yousendit.com/download/B0A4pwMvbWx5TA%3D%3D

Didn't a bunch of these guys grow up to be the cow rasslers in River City High?

[Jason Tate]

Isn't it against those rules of good arguing to attack the person (especially when that attack is entirely off based)? I didn't say the 2 song was bad, I didn't say that clean production=shit, I didn't Evetts didn't know what he was doing (I knew his name right away though, as well as knowing that he released the 2nd Story of the Year record) and I certainly didn't say I didn't like it. What I did say is that it doesn't sound like Lifetime of old, in otherwords, it is a bastardized version of Lifetime.
I'm not arguing with you - just saying you're wrong. There is no argument. I've heard the entire CD, you haven't. And calling a band a bastardized version of themselves is just stupid - on so many levels.

Lifetime fans will not be let down by this CD. Scenester kids that have been name dropping the band for the past few years to gain cred -- will be.

[falloutdrea19]

he couldn't have said it any better. props to him...that is awesome.

[emerson1892]

Vinny and LTJ, I have grown up on this band I can remember in 95 when I got losers kings... putting it in my disc man and just listening to everything on that cd I was 12 years old in 95 im now 24 and im listening to this cd right now at my desk, it's amazing to see this band just a few weeks ago and again feeling like i was 12 going to my first show less than jake has been and will continue to be the soundtrack of my life. Sorry for the reminicing but before i even read this thread i was listening to ltj and just got nostalgic. So many great memories when i listen to their catalog of songs. sorry about grammer aswell.

[Tony Pascarella]

Lifetime fans will not be let down by this CD. Scenester kids that have been name dropping the band for the past few years to gain cred -- will be.For me, Lifetime and Saves the Day always went hand in hand musically for me. I'm much more excited for Lifetime's new one than I was for Saves the Day's album this year, so I think that's a good thing.

I just wish they'd tour South Florida dammit. :-(

[Imtheotherguy]

that gave me the chills

[Big_Guy]

funsize - glad to see you're not dead, fueled by ramen 1998

http://www.yousendit.com/download/B0A4pwMvbWx5TA%3D%3D

thanks

[you'renotyou]

I'm not arguing with you - just saying you're wrong. There is no argument. I've heard the entire CD, you haven't. And calling a band a bastardized version of themselves is just stupid - on so many levels.

Lifetime fans will not be let down by this CD. Scenester kids that have been name dropping the band for the past few years to gain cred -- will be.

Again you go with the words in my mouth thing... I talked about the 2 songs (perhaps) the rest of the album is amazing and a return to form, but those 2 songs are subpar. I heard the 2 songs and I've seen enough bands go from good to bad after changing labels to let myself get my hopes up. (Case in point-STD-In Reverie totally lackluster album) As for the idea that I'm a name dropping scenester, thats your call... But how many Jersey basement shows did you cut your teeth at? Because I'm pretty sure I got myself to the last Lifetime show (before the reunion) (might I have seen you there?) I'm not saying that it makes me an expert on the band or that it makes me punker than thou, but you should really stop[ thinking you are the endless fountain of knowledge because you encourage the scene kids to believe what you tell them

[emiliodelgado]

Ann Berreta :)

[emerson1892]

does anyone know where i can get the rehasher cd?

[Jason Tate]

Again you go with the words in my mouth thing... I talked about the 2 songs (perhaps) the rest of the album is amazing and a return to form, but those 2 songs are subpar. I heard the 2 songs and I've seen enough bands go from good to bad after changing labels to let myself get my hopes up. (Case in point-STD-In Reverie totally lackluster album) As for the idea that I'm a name dropping scenester, thats your call... But how many Jersey basement shows did you cut your teeth at? Because I'm pretty sure I got myself to the last Lifetime show (before the reunion) (might I have seen you there?) I'm not saying that it makes me an expert on the band or that it makes me punker than thou, but you should really stop[ thinking you are the endless fountain of knowledge because you encourage the scene kids to believe what you tell them
No, I'm not putting any words in your mouth - I'm saying you're wrong. You act like I care about this. I don't. It's a good CD - period.

[CountMeOut923]

I'll be honest. I think Vinnie was made to (besides bring us great music with LTJ) work with a label. He knows his shit, and he doesn't seem like one who'd jump on the latest, greatest trend. That said, FBR had some bands that went on to do amazing things.

I'd definitely support anything he does industry-wise for the future.


couldn't agree more. He's a smart guy and I was totally shocked by this. But, it does show what kind of a person he is. I definitely have to respect somene who does this.

[bankrom]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0684870649.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

recommended reading.

[Branevember31]

woww....very well said


fbr is losing everybody

[losethegirl]

It is impossible to not respect Vinnie and LTJ in general. They are all classy (when it comes to business) and hardworking guys.

FBR = Next DTR

[tragedyco]

wow, i couldnt respect him anymore now. Good shit.

[CountMeOut923]

The label gets nowhere NEAR 7 dollars a record

Thank you for your intelligence.

For the person who said whatever about getting 7 dollars a record...hahahaha read a book on music business. i beg of you. i'm not even going to explain this one nor should anyone else.

[losingstreakca]

does anyone know where i can get the rehasher cd?

no idea records

[Tony Pascarella]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0684870649.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

recommended reading.Not recommended. Required. It's a fantastic book. A bit dry, but very, very informative.

[bankrom]

Not recommended. Required. It's a fantastic book. A bit dry, but very, very informative.

there are a few people in this thread who should ask for it for christmas.
another good one is billboard's "this business of artist management." a little smoother of a read.

[Big_Guy]

does anyone know where i can get the rehasher cd?

order it straight from No Idea

[CountMeOut923]

another one that really breaks it down for you "The Musician's Handbook" by Bobby Borg. i've read all these books for school so if anyone wants good recs, let me know

[mybreakingpoint]

i love Vinnie.



without him and Days Away, Cobra Starship and Lifetime are the only bands I give a shit about on this label...

[aminorthreat55]

I love everyone at FBR and Vinnie is just plain the man.

[atticusfinch]

what a dude. i've always loved LTJ, and will continue to do so.

[christophaaa]

good read, but i definately agree it's taken a strange direction, especially in the past few months..

[*crying stars*]

That was very classy of him.

[AsheyLarryRXB]

Forget The World was great.

split release between FBR and Vagrant I believe

you are correct. i just checked that back of that cd.

[vlkers7171]

i must say...after the signing and dropping of some recent bands i was beginning to think how vinnie had changed the label so much...but after seeing this, i have the most respect for him...he is simply an amazing guy...good luck in whatever he is doing in the future

[MightCatchFire]

inspiring.

[tiff_taff]

Yes, FBR is slipping. It's sad, but Vinnie is doing the right thing. I'm glad that he is doing what he thiks is right. I applaud him.

[thenameisgail]

Vinnie, I totally respect the man. I wish him the best of luck with everything. FBR has been making me angry lately...

[youareallfreaks]

Mad respect to Vinnie.

[Rad McAwesome]

Props, Vinnie. :appl:

He had a good run with FBR, but it's plain to see that the bands just aren't as dedicated as they once were. It's sad, but I think it's better than standing behind something you don't believe in.

I give him a lot of credit for sticking to his guns and his morals. Part of the reason I love Less Than Jake so much.


agreed! ESPECIALLY the part about standing behind something you no longer believe in. its got to be tough when you get to that point with something you've put so much of your time and heart into.

i also think it goes to show how unfair it is to pick apart a label and blame them for changes you may not agree with. you never really know whats going on on the inside. and i'm sure its not a very easy job to have.

[jkretz]

Again you go with the words in my mouth thing... I talked about the 2 songs (perhaps) the rest of the album is amazing and a return to form, but those 2 songs are subpar. I heard the 2 songs and I've seen enough bands go from good to bad after changing labels to let myself get my hopes up. (Case in point-STD-In Reverie totally lackluster album) As for the idea that I'm a name dropping scenester, thats your call... But how many Jersey basement shows did you cut your teeth at? Because I'm pretty sure I got myself to the last Lifetime show (before the reunion) (might I have seen you there?) I'm not saying that it makes me an expert on the band or that it makes me punker than thou, but you should really stop[ thinking you are the endless fountain of knowledge because you encourage the scene kids to believe what you tell them

i wonder if this post will be able to fit on the board along side your enormous ego.

you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but i'll throw out a few things here...

1) plenty of bands shift labels and release music that is just as good or better than what they had put out previously. it's easy to blame label shifts for shitty releases, because people don't like to admit when their favorite act has run out of gas. i hate pete wentz, but if the new lifetime record sucks, it's their fault not his.

2) get of the "this is too polished for me" bandwagon. did you hate Dear You because it sounded way better than 24 Hour Revenge therapy? i know your a Jawbreaker fan, i mean you do have tons of cred right? Good songs are good songs, if you want the thing to sound like it was done on a four track in the basement, then buy the fucking cd and use you tape deck to record it playing the room. you can sell it on ebay as the "demos" and rave about how much better it was before Evil Steve Evetts got his filthy auto-tuning hands on them.

3) i guess this is more of a question, but is it hard to keep up that Punk Rock resume`? i know for my actual jobs that sometimes my resume` lags behind, but i only have to update that every few years and with not nearly as many points. i mean keeping track of all of those NJ basement shows must but difficult.

keep up the good work,
-josh

[Jim Morgan]

I was definitely curious how much of an influence Vinnie had in some of the recent FBR signing and direction of the label. This cleared it up.

[im 2*Sweet]

i must say...after the signing and dropping of some recent bands i was beginning to think how vinnie had changed the label so much...but after seeing this, i have the most respect for him...he is simply an amazing guy...good luck in whatever he is doing in the future


i agree especially after the pspace signing and dropping of the AKAs. have mad respect for vinnie and look forward to what his next move will be.

[SockMonkeyRiot]

damn i really miss ann beretta.

To All Our Fallen Heroes is still one of my favorite albums.

[leftstranded]

very very well said

and i respect this man for what he stands for. he didn't bash the lable, he just said it was heading in a different direction than what he was looking for

and instead of forcing something that might be a moot point, he just stepped aside

[fallafelraffle]

Calm down? I'm perfectly calm. I'm just saying making up things is stupid. That's what you're doing. You're flat out - making things up! Just cause it "could be possible" - doesn't mean shit! It still you - MAKING IT UP. With absolutely ZERO credibility. It's fucking ridiculous.

Maybe aliens are now part owners in FBR and Vinnie doesn't want to be involved with the extra-terrestrial. See, I have as much credibility as you!



You have no idea how the record industry and labels work do you?


OK, regardless of what the profit margins are on Panic+FOB, the fact is that when any company (record labels included) is sold, it's sold at a multiple of it's current fair market value. If a label like FBR were to go on the market, it would sell for something between 5-9 times what it makes in a given year.

What I'm saying is: I don't think a multi-million buyout for a 50% ownership is unreasonable. I haven't heard anything to indicate that it HAS been sold, but if it were - the numbers that someone was spitting out before don't strike me as absurd.

Not to mention, Tony Victory valued his label at around 120m a few years ago. Roadrunner just sold for 73.5m for 73.5% of the company. Yes, they have Nickleback and every metal band on the planet, but just by eyeballing a comparison of total records sold, FBR would at least be a couple mill for a 50% or total buyout.

Don't jump down people's throats for speculating a little bit. You were all once noobs, too!

[SellOuts]

OK, regardless of what the profit margins are on Panic+FOB, the fact is that when any company (record labels included) is sold, it's sold at a multiple of it's current fair market value. If a label like FBR were to go on the market, it would sell for something between 5-9 times what it makes in a given year.

What I'm saying is: I don't think a multi-million buyout for a 50% ownership is unreasonable. I haven't heard anything to indicate that it HAS been sold, but if it were - the numbers that someone was spitting out before don't strike me as absurd.

Not to mention, Tony Victory valued his label at around 120m a few years ago. Roadrunner just sold for 73.5m for 73.5% of the company. Yes, they have Nickleback and every metal band on the planet, but just by eyeballing a comparison of total records sold, FBR would at least be a couple mill for a 50% or total buyout.

Don't jump down people's throats for speculating a little bit. You were all once noobs, too!

pwned.

thank you. i guess i do have some idea what im talking about...

[ramstar]

I knew something had to be up after The AKAs, Days Away, and Kane Hodder were no longer on the rooster and Powerspace was signed. I think that was incredibly well said. I also got the feeling he's not estatic in the direct GCH is going (I do not like the rerelease of Cupid's Chokehold at all). As far as TAI goes, I'm nervous for their follow up - the album title (Chop, Chop) makes me aprehensive, and the fact that Tom Conrad is gone. And FOB...well FOB is one the main reasons I'm in this so called scene and I have an undying love for them, but I will say that TAASIAAR is most definitly my most hated FOB song. LTJ is another reason I'm in these scene, and I have never disliked a single song they've made, its all fun stuff. Also I understand when bands line-ups change but I think thats been happening far too often on FBR - TAI, P!ATD, CIWWAF, etc. - I feel like somethings up with everybody's intentions of fame and fortune.

A note on CIWWAF - I found them on Purevolume before they were signed and liked their two demos, I was estatic they were signed to FBR and love the album - it's catchy, but I agree that they don't have awesome music skills, or performing skills for that matter (Shaant did not make eye contact once with the audience when I saw them.).

I'm glad Lifetime is on the label, I think it keeps everybody in check. My only question is why is their self titled cd coming out the same day as FOB's new cd IOH [Feb 6]?

I really liked Teen Idols, why did they leave the label / become "inactive" (thats what FBRs band list page/ (http://www.fueledbyramen.com/bands/)lists them as...)? Also I find it slightly amusing that OF are a fairly recent signing yet already inactive, I still say thats because they kicked out Jack Marin and then Owen Toomey left the band...

eatouehgao I don't know what the point of all that was or what I was trying to get at, but my respect for Vinnie is endless.

[xmicandmoshpitx]

funsize - glad to see you're not dead, fueled by ramen 1998

http://www.yousendit.com/download/B0A4pwMvbWx5TA%3D%3D


can you do megaupload or something else please? i dont want to have to create a YSI account

[Bury Your Head]

I knew something had to be up after The AKAs, Days Away, and Kane Hodder were no longer on the rooster and Powerspace was signed. I think was incredibly well said. I also got the feeling he's not estatic in the direct GCH is going (I do not like the rerelease of Cupid's Chokehold at all). As far as TAI goes, I'm nervous for their follow up - the album title (Chop, Chop) makes me aprehensive, and the fact that Tom Conrad is gone. And FOB...well FOB is one the main reasons I'm in this so called scene and I have an undying love for them, but I will say that TAASIAAR is most definitly my most hated FOB song. LTJ is another reason I'm in these scene, and I have never disliked a single song they've made, its all fun stuff.

A note on CIWWAF - I found them on Purevolume before they were signed and liked their two demos, I was estatic they were signed to FBR and love the album - it's catchy, but I agree that they don't have awesome music skills, or performing skills for that matter (Shaant did not make eye contact once with the audience when I saw them.).

eatouehgao I don't know what the point of all that was.
But my respect for Vinnie is unlimited.

Did u really have to abbriviate the song by fob? Haha anyways

1. Cute sucks and I wish I could see vinnies face when he heard their demos. I'm sure it was the same look ud give if u saw your mom and dad going at it.
Its a shame to the "scene" that a band like that is getting big.... I can't wait till the next effort comes and no one gives a shit.
And after going to a show of theirs cause my girlfriend grew up with the guys I can honestly say I get more enjoyment watching mtv's my sweet 16.... yes they are that shitty live

2.kane hodder is gonna disband or something it seems like... I haven't heard a goddamn thing from that band in like forever

3. I'm sure we all are interested why tom is no longer in TAI ( including himself)

[decrescendo27]

vinnie is the man

[OveriseFan]

You were all once noobs, too!

Actually, since Jason owns, and created this site, he was technically never really a noob.

He's supreme overlord here (I mean this in a good way, Jason.). Get over the fact that he knows more than you.

[Shatter_Glass]

Very nicely written. Good luck to Vinnie/LTJ in the new year!

[fallafelraffle]

Actually, since Jason owns, and created this site, he was technically never really a noob.

He's supreme overlord here (I mean this in a good way, Jason.). Get over the fact that he knows more than you.

Listen, dude. I was just trying to offer some perspective here that wasn't strictly "let's rip a kid a new asshole because he's speculating on a message board."

But let's look at your clever, sycophantic angle for a second. I take it your "supreme overlord" was born with omniscience about industry standards and what a company's market value would be? Everyone starts out knowing nothing. I don't care what website you start.

[BettyDavisDance]

Not recommended. Required. It's a fantastic book. A bit dry, but very, very informative.

it is a good book, but not a great book. very informative though

[The Revisionist]

This is kind of cool to read, but it is a little confusing for me to read, seeing as how when I hear that new Less Than Jake album, all I hear is style over substance.

We will see what the future brings.

[lightcollapse]

fucking much respect for this man - i need to check out the early FBR bands i haven't checked out yet. this label is fucking itself over.

[stu2006]

abandon ship!


on another note, i had no idea fbr put out some jimmy eat world

[Loch_Doun]

haha i love the jab at Gym Class Heroes. They went from an original indie rap band to some cheesy rap group with machine-made beats and hardly any live band sound

[Chris Fallon]

I was rocking all my LTJ last night while driving to my parents house -- such a great band. They get way more shit for their latest records than I think they deserve, I honestly like all their albums and only dislike a few songs they've ever made. Great band.

Exactly the way I feel. They are, after Marvelous 3, my favorite band ever. Incredibly nice dudes who do things they believe in for the right reasons.

I respect Vinnie a lot more than I already do for making such a bold decision and leaving something he helped create. That's really something I admire.

[sweetmik]

I miss the Stereo. I wish Let Go would tour more.

[Perfect Teeth]

Finally, somebody who makes fucking sense.

[emoishardcore]

BLUE MEDIC! so many good fbr bands taht never panned out

[MisterChanesaw]

You have to respect that.

I miss The Impossibles.

[Jason Tate]

OK, regardless of what the profit margins are on Panic+FOB, the fact is that when any company (record labels included) is sold, it's sold at a multiple of it's current fair market value. If a label like FBR were to go on the market, it would sell for something between 5-9 times what it makes in a given year.

What I'm saying is: I don't think a multi-million buyout for a 50% ownership is unreasonable. I haven't heard anything to indicate that it HAS been sold, but if it were - the numbers that someone was spitting out before don't strike me as absurd.

Not to mention, Tony Victory valued his label at around 120m a few years ago. Roadrunner just sold for 73.5m for 73.5% of the company. Yes, they have Nickleback and every metal band on the planet, but just by eyeballing a comparison of total records sold, FBR would at least be a couple mill for a 50% or total buyout.

Don't jump down people's throats for speculating a little bit. You were all once noobs, too!

Well, for starters, we're not talking about the label selling itself to anyone - so that takes most of your dollar number speculations away. I never said there wasn't money exchanging hands, I just questioned the amount of it that was brought up.

The label hasn't been sold to anyone -- therefore, as you yourself say, it's all speculation. My point from the beginning was that A) this speculation is stupid because it starts unfounded rumors, B) the numbers thrown around in the speculation were far inflated due to the amount of money that would be available.

If we toss in a shit load of hypothetical things, then yes - of course there's a way to bend everything to get the shit load of money talked about --- but it's just that "hypothetical." On the same path, I could say AP.net is worth almost 10 million dollars (using your math) and that I'm rich. The reality however is that this is far from true.

I'm not jumping down people's throats for speculating -- I'm jumping down their throat for lack of common sense.

[[Brendan]]

Frodus anyone?

[BigMouthStrikes]

Sounds cheesey but that gave me goosebumps:-)

[BenForTheMasses]

very noble.

i wish all labels we're fueled by love for music
not love for business marketing schemes.

i hope vinnie starts something new and organic.

[megan*]

wow.

[HolidayFromReal]

not a less then jake fan, but Vinnie is cool guy in my book. Nice!

[SellOuts]

Well, for starters, we're not talking about the label selling itself to anyone - so that takes most of your dollar number speculations away. I never said there wasn't money exchanging hands, I just questioned the amount of it that was brought up.

The label hasn't been sold to anyone -- therefore, as you yourself say, it's all speculation. My point from the beginning was that A) this speculation is stupid because it starts unfounded rumors, B) the numbers thrown around in the speculation were far inflated due to the amount of money that would be available.

If we toss in a shit load of hypothetical things, then yes - of course there's a way to bend everything to get the shit load of money talked about --- but it's just that "hypothetical." On the same path, I could say AP.net is worth almost 10 million dollars (using your math) and that I'm rich. The reality however is that this is far from true.

I'm not jumping down people's throats for speculating -- I'm jumping down their throat for lack of common sense.

A) there is no common sense in the music industry... you should know that
B) sell your website and get the 10 million already!

[lushintransit]

A lot of people do. Why, I don't know. But they do say it.

Don't get me wrong, CIWWAF have no talent, there is nothing special about them, and they'll probably be gone as quick as the buzz around them started. But, if you get past the lead singer's voice, the world's most cliche and poorly written lyrics and everything else wrong with this band, they're fun (in the "I-don't-want-to-listen-to-anything-I-need-to-think-about" way)

[Big_Guy]

Don't get me wrong, CIWWAF have no talent, there is nothing special about them, and they'll probably be gone as quick as the buzz around them started. But, if you get past the lead singer's voice, the world's most cliche and poorly written lyrics and everything else wrong with this band, they're fun (in the "I-don't-want-to-listen-to-anything-I-need-to-think-about" way)

you just listed everything that a band should have that this band doesn't

worst band ever...........at least in this scene

[ramstar]

Did u really have to abbriviate the song by fob? Haha anyways

1. Cute sucks and I wish I could see vinnies face when he heard their demos. I'm sure it was the same look ud give if u saw your mom and dad going at it.
Its a shame to the "scene" that a band like that is getting big.... I can't wait till the next effort comes and no one gives a shit.
And after going to a show of theirs cause my girlfriend grew up with the guys I can honestly say I get more enjoyment watching mtv's my sweet 16.... yes they are that shitty live

2.kane hodder is gonna disband or something it seems like... I haven't heard a goddamn thing from that band in like forever

3. I'm sure we all are interested why tom is no longer in TAI ( including himself)

Yes, I did for the same reason you choose to abbreviate you.
They weren't THAT shitty live.
Thanks for the Kane Hodder info.
and yeah the Tom/Tai situation is odd.

[abcdefghijennie]

this is all pretty depressing. mike ski was right; the more you know about the music industry, the less you like it.

[lushintransit]

you just listed everything that a band should have that this band doesn't

worst band ever...........at least in this scene


Oh there are bands in this scene a lot worse, imo, but it's to each their own. I personally am not a "fan" of either but I don't get why it's seemingly cool for a lot of people to hate CIWWAF and Panic! At the Disco. There are SOOOOOOOO many bad bands in the 'scene,' why limit the hate to them?

[battybat17]

Oh there are bands in this scene a lot worse, imo, but it's to each their own. I personally am not a "fan" of either but I don't get why it's seemingly cool for a lot of people to hate CIWWAF and Panic! At the Disco. There are SOOOOOOOO many bad bands in the 'scene,' why limit the hate to them?

How 'bout...
CIWWAF is the worst band in this "scene" with a great record deal?
Sounds more like it.

[FBRloverrr]

aww, thats sad. im a big fan of fbr, even the first generation (especially the akas, ae effect, jimmy eat world, yellow card, kane hodder, days away, less than jake of course) and it is easy to see that the fist generation is like completely different from the current roaster even thought i like them both. but good for vinnie, fbr wont be the same without u! good luck with ur new label :)