The Value of A College Education

[spiffa0]

First of all, this is in politics because I am hoping for more intelligent opinions than if I were to post this in the general Education forum. Plus, politics can tie in to this.

In the "what the fuck has Obama done" thread, a lot of people were bringing up that Obama wants to make it so everyone can go to college...that it's a right and not a privledge. I think this brings up a great discussion on what exactly is the value of a college education these days.

A lot of people can't get jobs (I was one of them. I graduated in May and finally got a job in my field in October). Yes, a lot of this has to do with the economy. But how much does it have to do with the fact that everyone has a 4 year degree? A undergraduate degree isn't special anymore. Especially with the rise of online colleges and community college. Everyone has an undergrad in something. So how much is your diploma actually worth when all said and done? Is it necessary for you to go get a graduate degree? Are online schools and community colleges devaluing someone with a degree from more "prestigious" colleges?

People complain that they can't find jobs and they only blame it on the economy. I'm curious to see how many of these people chose fields where you can actually find a job. I have friends that went to school for film. Sure, they love shooting and directing. But your chances of landing in that field are so minute. The arts, while great, are probably some of the hardest fields to break into (film, music, art, etc). So when those people complain about not finding a job, I just think to myself, "Well you kind of asked for it."

Also, I feel like more and more people are attending community college or an online school because it's so much cheaper. But is the cost savings worthwhile in the end. I find it hard to believe that someone from one of those institutions could beat out someone from a Pitt, Michigan, etc.

Anyway those are my opinions. I don't mean to offend anyone that does do any of the things I listed, because in the end, as long as you better yourself and are happy with your decisions, it doesn't matter. But I think it's important to note that a 4 year degree isn't what it used to be.

[Scrandon]

I believe all of the questions you have raised are complete non-issues. Understandable that you are frustrated that you have completed your degree and are not able to find a job, but it is completely because of the recession.

15% of Americans earned a bachelor's degree in 2002. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2002-06-05-education-census.htm) That is nowhere near 'everyone having one' or 'too common'. We need many multiples of that number graduating college.

Additionally, a large part of the unemployment currently is due to people being under-qualified for available jobs.

[deFobbed14yrs]

I feel like many colleges offer basic majors, bu nothing for like the real world, unless it's like a degree is some sort of medicine or law or something. Like a degree in English or Philosophy is so broad that like it doesn't really translate to a job.

And many go to community college and than go off to better colleges for grad. degrees.
At my CC, kids can go off to Harvard or UPenn.

[ellie117]

It's really not how well you do in these schools, it's what you do with your education. It's important for education to be offered and available to every single person because it raises the value of this country. Like I said in the WTF Has Obama Done thread, comparatively our country's education level is shit even with "everyone" having some form of degree. Sure, there are going to be Princeton and Harvard grad student geniuses, but the working class of America does not have to be that smart, and shouldn't have to attempt to be that smart, which is why Community and non-Ivy league colleges exist. However, education is incredibly necessary for the future success of our country. To say it somehow "hurts" to have every adult in the country have a degree is moronic.

My sister graduated May 2009 with some Bio-Chemical degree, and her field is not hiring because there were such job cuts at upper positions in that field that now all those who held those jobs are applying for the beginner-level jobs and there's no way a freshly-graduated student with no lab experience will be hired over the older, much more experienced laid off workers. That's not because of too many degrees, it's because of the economy. Should she not have gotten that degree? Hell fucking no. She's going back to school to get her nursing degree so she can get a job, but a Bio-Chem degree will not hurt her at all.

[Croggs]

A master's degree today has the same (if not less) value as a bachelor's degree 5 years ago. Shit is weak.

[Scrandon]

More updated numbers, still not nearly enough.

In 2000, 84 percent of American adults age 25 and over had at least completed high school and 26 percent continued to earn a bachelor's degree or higher, both all-time highs.

[Jason Tate]

If you think that simply getting a college education will secure you a job - or a "good" job, the real world is going to offer a rude awakening. There are more steps involved. The education process is lifelong, and what you know is the silver bullet. So, the education is important ... but learning how to learn, making connections, and specializing on being the best at what you want to do are also a part of it.

Just getting a degree and thinking that should lead to a job offer ... is sort of naive.

[JCSurf27]

If you think that simply getting a college education will secure you a job - or a "good" job, the real world is going to offer a rude awakening. There are more steps involved. The education process is lifelong, and what you know is the silver bullet. So, the education is important ... but learning how to learn, making connections, and specializing on being the best at what you want to do are also a part of it.

Just getting a degree and thinking that should lead to a job offer ... is sort of naive.

This.

[topher465]

I happen to work for the online division of a college, and this is something that crosses my mind every day. I always try to explain to students that although an education will aid them to get them to where they want to go, it all depends on how much they want it, which includes getting good grades, learning everything you can about everything, and making that extra step to be successfull. Jason is right. A college education (and a masters, at that) doesn't guarantee you anything. It certainly helps, but essentially your future lies in your own hands.

[x togepi x]

i know someone with a fucking philosophy degree who just got a good job because he could talk himself up. if you can get a job with a philosophy degree, college isn't worthless, even in this terrible economy.

[KingsCrossing]

i know someone with a fucking philosophy degree who just got a good job because he could talk himself up. if you can get a job with a philosophy degree, college isn't worthless, even in this terrible economy.

Interestingly enough, I read an article recently that stated law schools and firms are more likely to accept those with a philosophy degree over a political science degree because philosophy promotes more critical thinking and is overall advantageous in a bunch of other regards that to be honest I don't remember off the top of my head. But yeah. I'll try and find the article.

In the meantime, this is a pretty interesting (yet depressing) read on the whole post-undergrad world that many 20-somethings are experiencing right now...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/magazine/22Adulthood-t.html?_r=1

[KingsCrossing]

I believe all of the questions you have raised are complete non-issues. Understandable that you are frustrated that you have completed your degree and are not able to find a job, but it is completely because of the recession.

15% of Americans earned a bachelor's degree in 2002. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2002-06-05-education-census.htm) That is nowhere near 'everyone having one' or 'too common'. We need many multiples of that number graduating college.

Additionally, a large part of the unemployment currently is due to people being under-qualified for available jobs.

I don't have any available statistics, but I would think it's the opposite - that many people are too overqualified nowadays. Or, if anything, it's more of a mixed bag.

Now, Silicon Valley, the capital of American innovation has a new creation: revival meetings for the unemployed. On weekends, they come by the hundreds.

"60 Minutes" joined a gathering called "Job Connections," held inside a local church.

It's part how-to-find-a-job workshop, part networking opportunity with the feel of a 12-step program.

The people in the group are the faces of unemployment in Silicon Valley, people in their 40s, 50s and 60s who thought they had done everything right: earned a degree, stayed with their company, saved for retirement.

"I'm curious. How many PhDs in this room?" Pelley asked. "One, two, three, four… several. Now leave your hands up. How many master's degrees? Oh boy. And how many of you went to college. Everybody keep your hands up if you have a college degree, a master's degree or a PhD."

Many in the room had their hands up.

"How many of you expected to retire from the company where you were working?" he then asked.

"More than half the room," he noted.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/21/60minutes/main6978943.shtml?tag=contentMain;c bsCarousel

[x togepi x]

Interestingly enough, I read an article recently that stated law schools and firms are more likely to accept those with a philosophy degree over a political science degree because philosophy promotes more critical thinking and is overall advantageous in a bunch of other regards that to be honest I don't remember off the top of my head. But yeah. I'll try and find the article.

In the meantime, this is a pretty interesting (yet depressing) read on the whole post-undergrad world that many 20-somethings are experiencing right now...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/magazine/22Adulthood-t.html?_r=1

It's easier to get into law school with a philosophy degree because most philosophy degrees require you to take at least one class in formal logic which you really need for law school. You end up doing better on the LSAT because of it because I think there's a section on logic.

The dude i'm talking about got an office job that wasn't entry level somehow.

[KingsCrossing]

It's easier to get into law school with a philosophy degree because most philosophy degrees require you to take at least one class in formal logic which you really need for law school. You end up doing better on the LSAT because of it because I think there's a section on logic.

The dude i'm talking about got an office job that wasn't entry level somehow.

Ah okay, that makes sense then. How does you friend like the job so far?

[jumpman5923]

This is a great thread. I kinda lurk around here a lot and never post, but this is interesting. I got my degree 2 years ago from Cal Sate Northiridge here in CA. Its in business Management, and how many jobs have I received because of it? none, in fact the only job I got was cus my friend works in the steel construction industry and now I do as well. It pays ok, but is kind of slow for obvious reasons. I look back at the money I spend for my education and I see nowhere am I getting what I paid for. In fact, all my friends got jobs after college completely unrelated to their education. People think college is some right, well I think you are better off not going unless you really need it. I could be where I am right now with no college degree, as could almost all my friends who have jobs. I always thought college was gonna propel me to some sweet job but it didn't. I put out resume's forever, to everyone for everything and it didn't work. I'm convinced that college is for doctors, lawyers and people of that nature.

The real value I think of the education, which happens to minimal, is from the fact that you stuck it out. There isn't value anymore in an education, in fact. I kno people around here don't like it, but the Tea Party movement isn't about what you know, its about what you have done, and I think that is the direction America should be moving anyway. There is way too much debt tied into college education nowadays and its not practical. A college education shows that you know how to pass a test, nothing more, nothing less. It also shows you know how to follow orders for a semester. What is the real value in that if you aren't studying for a major that requires real world experience? College is definitely for some, but as far as a value, its very low I believe.

[deFobbed14yrs]

A college education is more than just a piece of paper. It's connections and life experiences. You have to learn more than whatever some professor taught you in class. A degree may get you a foot in the door, but it's who you are that gets you the job.

And did the guy above me just say the Tea Party is good?

And once again it all depends on the career you want. If you want to be a doctor or something, hey, you need a degree. And some degrees do pay themselves off multifold.

[d00d81that]

If you think that simply getting a college education will secure you a job - or a "good" job, the real world is going to offer a rude awakening. There are more steps involved. The education process is lifelong, and what you know is the silver bullet. So, the education is important ... but learning how to learn, making connections, and specializing on being the best at what you want to do are also a part of it.

Just getting a degree and thinking that should lead to a job offer ... is sort of naive.

This is true. I wish someone told me this earlier, like while I was in college. Most people just stress the importance of going to college, but that's about it. I just graduated and got my bachelor's in public health. I realize that a lot of companies value a higher degree, if not the highest, as well as work experience in the health field, and I'm sure this is the same in other fields. I haven't been able to find a job yet, so I'm going back to school early next year. In the meantime, I'm just trying to gain experience, make connections, etc. I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat as me, at least I think so.

[Regards]

As it has already been said, you have to be willing to put in the work. Its not necessarily the piece of paper that's going to get you a job, and you better be willing to start at a low paying job.

I will say that its unfortunate how many college kids waste away the opportunity of studying under many excellent professors because they think college is a big 4 year party.

[Momo32T]

I graduated in May with a double major in Leadership Studies (yea, Richmond is the only school in the country that offers it) and English. I used the first major as a selling point in job interviews because A) ppl dunno wtf it is B) will therefore ask about it, giving me an opportunity to sell my personality.

Right now I am working for a law firm. It is by no means relevant to what I learned in college nor do I really want to be an attorney (even though I took and did well on the LSAT). If anything, the real world experience I am getting now is making this job worthwhile, even if I have a feeling my next job will not be in the legal profession.

Still, and I agree with most people, that because I have a liberal arts degree I have to go to graduate school to make myself more qualified/unique. It seems like a BA or BS just doesn't separate you from the pack anymore.

[spiffa0]

If you think that simply getting a college education will secure you a job - or a "good" job, the real world is going to offer a rude awakening. There are more steps involved. The education process is lifelong, and what you know is the silver bullet. So, the education is important ... but learning how to learn, making connections, and specializing on being the best at what you want to do are also a part of it.

Just getting a degree and thinking that should lead to a job offer ... is sort of naive.

I wasn't insinuating any of that

[spiffa0]

This is a great thread. I kinda lurk around here a lot and never post, but this is interesting. I got my degree 2 years ago from Cal Sate Northiridge here in CA. Its in business Management, and how many jobs have I received because of it? none, in fact the only job I got was cus my friend works in the steel construction industry and now I do as well. It pays ok, but is kind of slow for obvious reasons. I look back at the money I spend for my education and I see nowhere am I getting what I paid for. In fact, all my friends got jobs after college completely unrelated to their education. People think college is some right, well I think you are better off not going unless you really need it. I could be where I am right now with no college degree, as could almost all my friends who have jobs. I always thought college was gonna propel me to some sweet job but it didn't. I put out resume's forever, to everyone for everything and it didn't work. I'm convinced that college is for doctors, lawyers and people of that nature.

The real value I think of the education, which happens to minimal, is from the fact that you stuck it out. There isn't value anymore in an education, in fact. I kno people around here don't like it, but the Tea Party movement isn't about what you know, its about what you have done, and I think that is the direction America should be moving anyway. There is way too much debt tied into college education nowadays and its not practical. A college education shows that you know how to pass a test, nothing more, nothing less. It also shows you know how to follow orders for a semester. What is the real value in that if you aren't studying for a major that requires real world experience? College is definitely for some, but as far as a value, its very low I believe.


I think this is the wrong attitude to have. Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's easy to say if you don't get a job right away or not in your field that college was a waste of time. But your earning potential is substantially greater than those who have not gone to college. It takes some hard work and a lot of luck. I applied to over 300 jobs and went on 10 interviews before I got the job where I'm at now. And it is definitely not where I want it to be (had to move from Pittsburgh to New Jersey). But after two years experience I figure I will be able to move somewhere that I want to be.

[jumpman5923]

I think this is the wrong attitude to have. Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's easy to say if you don't get a job right away or not in your field that college was a waste of time. But your earning potential is substantially greater than those who have not gone to college. It takes some hard work and a lot of luck. I applied to over 300 jobs and went on 10 interviews before I got the job where I'm at now. And it is definitely not where I want it to be (had to move from Pittsburgh to New Jersey). But after two years experience I figure I will be able to move somewhere that I want to be.


I am not saying you shouldn't go to college, it just seems it isn't for everyone. I think if you are going to be a doctor, or lawyer or something like that you def need college. however, for me, it turns out not to be beneficial like I thought. I guess it opens doors, but its really who you know. College can help that, but I just always struggle to see college as something is really helpful to regular people. Like the person said a few posts back, regular BA, or BS, degrees are pretty common and you won't stand out like you used to. I think for general purpose jobs the value is down. But for jobs that require the college education I think its very worth it.

Also, I wasn't stating earlier that the Tea Party was good, I was just stating how it seems they, and many more American's are putting less stock in this education thing and more in real world experience, except in California where everyone lives in a dreamland. I'm not saying its better or worse, I'm just saying that the country seems to be trending toward real life experiences rather than education. Could be wrong though

[jawstheme]

I think tuition should be free, but admissions should be a little tougher.

Edit: there's no reason why I should go to a state school and come out $25,000 in debt without getting any refund checks. Most full and partial scholarships were given to athletes.

[jawstheme]

It's easier to get into law school with a philosophy degree because most philosophy degrees require you to take at least one class in formal logic which you really need for law school. You end up doing better on the LSAT because of it because I think there's a section on logic.

The dude i'm talking about got an office job that wasn't entry level somehow.

He's an outlier. It isn't easy right now without connections, and that's a fact. We can always point to people who got lucky.

[x togepi x]

He's an outlier. It isn't easy right now without connections, and that's a fact. We can always point to people who got lucky.

Where did I say it was easy?

I'm just saying your degree isn't magically worth less just because more people are able to go to college.

[jawstheme]

Where did I say it was easy?

I'm just saying your degree isn't magically worth less just because more people are able to go to college.

A lot of degrees are worth less because the market is saturated right now.

[sjb2k1]

my college classes pretty much honed skills i already had, so i like to think my journalism degree was me getting my foot in the door...as for the value of my education? somewhere around $40k for the next 15ish years. lol.

[Love As Arson]

I went to a community college and I'm smarter than everyone.

[peder458]

I went to a community college and I'm smarter than everyone.

I really want to disagree with you :)

[Love As Arson]

I taught Stephen Hawking all he knows.

[ace1112]

I believe all of the questions you have raised are complete non-issues. Understandable that you are frustrated that you have completed your degree and are not able to find a job, but it is completely because of the recession.

15% of Americans earned a bachelor's degree in 2002. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2002-06-05-education-census.htm) That is nowhere near 'everyone having one' or 'too common'. We need many multiples of that number graduating college.

Additionally, a large part of the unemployment currently is due to people being under-qualified for available jobs.

first rule of current events debate don't cite a source that's 8 years old

[x togepi x]

A lot of degrees are worth less because the market is saturated right now.

I don't think that's the problem.

[spiffa0]

I don't think that's the problem.

But isn't it? Everyone has a degree. When it used to set you apart it just brings you to the average.

[Broken Parachute]

College is about networking more so than learning.

[Jason Tate]

But isn't it? Everyone has a degree. When it used to set you apart it just brings you to the average.
Not everyone has a degree.

[spiffa0]

Not everyone has a degree (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_47/b3960108.htm).

Apparently you are missing exaggeration. Obviously everyone doesn't have one. I'm actually surprised at how low those numbers are. I would say about 5% of the people I know don't have a degree. I feel like you are missing the point of this thread. I'm merely asking if people think that as more and more people go to college that they feel their degree is becoming devalued. That it's not as prestigious as it once was. That paying 80K over four years isn't worth as much as it used to be.

[Jason Tate]

Apparently you are missing exaggeration. Obviously everyone doesn't have one. I'm actually surprised at how low those numbers are. I would say about 5% of the people I know don't have a degree. I feel like you are missing the point of this thread. I'm merely asking if people think that as more and more people go to college that they feel their degree is becoming devalued. That it's not as prestigious as it once was. That paying 80K over four years isn't worth as much as it used to be.
You can't extrapolate based on who you know to make generalized statements.

Never missed the point of the thread, I answered your question. The degree itself is not prestigious or of much value to begin with. If you've built it up to be something else - your own expectations are the issue, not more people going to college. Higher college education percentages is a good thing.

[Scrandon]

first rule of current events debate don't cite a source that's 8 years old

I cited another source from 2010 and the percentages were increased by one - still very relevant. But thanks for the info asshole.

[Scrandon]

Apparently you are missing exaggeration. Obviously everyone doesn't have one. I'm actually surprised at how low those numbers are. I would say about 5% of the people I know don't have a degree. I feel like you are missing the point of this thread. I'm merely asking if people think that as more and more people go to college that they feel their degree is becoming devalued. That it's not as prestigious as it once was. That paying 80K over four years isn't worth as much as it used to be.
Do more.

[spiffa0]

Do more.

Do more? Not everyone can afford 40K a year for grad school on TOP of whatever undergrad loans they have. This isn't MY problem because I was lucky enough to get a job. You can really only do so much

[danofthedead]

at my current job there are 2 non certified positions. I have a degree and work the lower of the two positions, but I make more money than people in the superior position that dont have a degree.

[serenab1221]

College is about networking more so than learning.

This times a million. It's all about the professionals you meet and keeping in good terms and in touch with them so they can possibly assist in getting you a job or becoming a reference. Basically it's where you create the foundation that will shape the future of your career. The education is only a factor.

[jawstheme]

Not everyone has a degree.

That doesn't have anything to do with my point, since my point was based on many degrees being worth less because the job market is extremely saturated.

[Jason Tate]

That doesn't have anything to do with my point, since my point was based on many degrees being worth less because the job market is extremely saturated.
I don't remember quoting you with that. The degree isn't worth less: the person is.

[jawstheme]

I don't remember quoting you with that. The degree isn't worth less: the person is.

Hmm. I scrolled too far. I think I should be in the drunk thread instead.

[Gaston]

just entered this thread to say something along the lines of :

If you think that simply getting a college education will secure you a job - or a "good" job, the real world is going to offer a rude awakening. There are more steps involved. The education process is lifelong, and what you know is the silver bullet. So, the education is important ... but learning how to learn, making connections, and specializing on being the best at what you want to do are also a part of it.

Just getting a degree and thinking that should lead to a job offer ... is sort of naive.

i really don't understand the prevalent philosophy of action -> goal attainment

it's as though people don't realize that in life, you've got to be in it for the long haul. seems folks expect instant gratification now more than ever. "i'm outta high school? send me to college! outta college? gimme a job! got a job? gimme a husband/wife! got a husband or wife? gimme a house!" and so on. i don't understand. life isn't that structured, and what's more is i don't want it to be. there's no adventure in the aforementioned scenario but it's oddly enough what so many people seem to want.

[jawstheme]

I don't think that's the problem.

Obviously there are problems that lead to the market being saturated...

Please make your point clear.

[jawstheme]

just entered this thread to say something along the lines of :



i really don't understand the prevalent philosophy of action -> goal attainment

it's as though people don't realize that in life, you've got to be in it for the long haul. seems folks expect instant gratification now more than ever. "i'm outta high school? send me to college! outta college? gimme a job! got a job? gimme a husband/wife! got a husband or wife? gimme a house!" and so on. i don't understand. life isn't that structured, and what's more is i don't want it to be. there's no adventure in the aforementioned scenario but it's oddly enough what so many people seem to want.

but shoud you be in debt 30 plus thousand dollars because of a four year education? Fuck no. How could you not expect a good job with that kind of debt?

[Gaston]

but shoud you be in debt 30 plus thousand dollars because of a four year education? Fuck no. How could you not expect a good job with that kind of debt?

that's not one of the problems i deal with so i'm not going to lie and say i can understand it completely because since i don't experience it i can't properly evaluate it, but you do raise a good point and the prices of american universities are ridiculous. only advice i've got is... go smaller? i dunno.

[Jason Tate]

but shoud you be in debt 30 plus thousand dollars because of a four year education? Fuck no. How could you not expect a good job with that kind of debt?
I expected the debt more than I expected a good job. If I was going to a top 5 school in the country, and couldn't get a good job, then maybe I'd have a different take. But I never expected the degree to do anything in the work place by having it. My dad never had one, my mom has one from one of the best colleges in the country, so I was raised to get educated and work hard. Expect no handouts at any step - but be willing to give them to those in need.

[loveisdead]

It's important. I'm pretty bummed I have over $150,000 in loans but no good job to show for it though.

[x togepi x]

Obviously there are problems that lead to the market being saturated...

Please make your point clear.

The market isn't saturated with college degrees, it's a bad job market all around. hardly anyone's getting jobs.

[Jason Tate]

The market isn't saturated with college degrees, it's a bad job market all around. hardly anyone's getting jobs.
Weird (minor) thing. Started looking at the jobs around Oregon (10% unemployment) last night for a friend, and there are a lot of places hiring. This is leading me to believe those hiring are looking for more skilled workers than our current market (in Oregon) has. Because some searches for graphic designers/illustrators/etc. - led me to like 15 jobs in 10 minutes of searching.

[mcm1610]

Let me pull up a graph and show you exactly what it is worth...

[Jason Tate]

Let me pull up a graph and show you exactly what it is worth...
I'm more annoyed by the differences between men and women than I am anything else in that graph.

[Simulcast]

If you think that simply getting a college education will secure you a job - or a "good" job, the real world is going to offer a rude awakening. There are more steps involved. The education process is lifelong, and what you know is the silver bullet. So, the education is important ... but learning how to learn, making connections, and specializing on being the best at what you want to do are also a part of it.

Just getting a degree and thinking that should lead to a job offer ... is sort of naive.

Yes.

Another important component, in my opinion, is work experience. I have many friends who sailed through college on their parents money, having never once held a job, and now won't get hired to work at Target for lack of work experience. Holding down a job for a few years is an invaluable experience and reflects extremely well.

[KingsCrossing]

I'm more annoyed by the differences between men and women than I am anything else in that graph.

It's interesting too because even though there's clear disparity across each level, the biggest sex difference in earnings looks like it occurs in the college grad population.

[mcm1610]

I'm more annoyed by the differences between men and women than I am anything else in that graph.

Yea, it's still very, very dramatic, but there's some explanations that cover SOME of the gap. (The rest is sexism.)

Ex: Your average woman will take some time off for maternity leave, moreso than men take for paternity leave. While they don't lose anything literally for taking this time off, it is time away from the job that doesn't get them raises as quickly in the long-run.

Ex2: That graph is a snapshot, so those women at the tail end started with such a serious disadvantage that now that they are 55 or whatever, of course they are far behind men.

But yea, there's a lot of progress to be made.

[Jason Tate]

It's interesting too because even though there's clear disparity across each level, the biggest difference between earnings looks like it comes in the college grad population.
Very interesting. Yeah. Hmmm. Strange. Looks like I us men should hit our maximum income levels around 46. I got 19 years? Booo!

[mcm1610]

Very interesting. Yeah. Hmmm. Strange. Looks like I us men should hit our maximum income levels around 46. I got 19 years? Booo!

Yea. I don't know how this will continue with the continued advancement of technology and people coming of age now having spent their entire lives "keeping up" with what's new, but people up this point start to lose their relevance when they're middle aged. You are too far removed from your college and/or training, you've hit the ceiling of promotions, you slow down mentally and physically so your productivity declines. Most people can expect their real incomes to decline in the last 5-8 years of their working lives, too. It doesn't just level off, it usually rounds and slides down.

[Jason Tate]

Yea. I don't know how this will continue with the continued advancement of technology and people coming of age now having spent their entire lives "keeping up" with what's new, but people up this point start to lose their relevance when they're middle aged. You are too far removed from your college and/or training, you've hit the ceiling of promotions, you slow down mentally and physically so your productivity declines. Most people can expect their real incomes to decline in the last 5-8 years of their working lives, too. It doesn't just level off, it usually rounds and slides down.
Well then - I wanna retire early. Haha.

[mcm1610]

Well.. then you're draining down whatever stockpile you're sitting on instead of at least subsidizing it with some sort of income, even if its less.

It's all about finding that sweet spot where your free time isn't worth the shittier pay anymore.

[Jason Tate]

Or invest and live off interest!

[mcm1610]

Assuming you get a nice enough next-egg. We aren't all that lucky.

[Love As Arson]

Even if one finds a job in their field, they're likely to be paid less. Jobs are also being deskilled, including office-oriented work.

[A7XXX]

College education is important and I just want to echo some people on here that it doesn't matter what you learn so much as who you know. We need to better inform college students that they need internships, volunteers, and work experience before entering the real work force. Otherwise, they would be completely unprepared for what employers are asking for.

[bung]

Yea, it's still very, very dramatic, but there's some explanations that cover SOME of the gap. (The rest is sexism.)

Ex: Your average woman will take some time off for maternity leave, moreso than men take for paternity leave. While they don't lose anything literally for taking this time off, it is time away from the job that doesn't get them raises as quickly in the long-run.

Ex2: That graph is a snapshot, so those women at the tail end started with such a serious disadvantage that now that they are 55 or whatever, of course they are far behind men.

But yea, there's a lot of progress to be made.

Women are also less likely to haggle their beginning wage. They are less likely to ask for a raise, too. They also tend to choose majors that lead to degrees applicable in lower paying fields, such as teaching, social work, and child care. Men are far more likely to choose majors that lead to jobs in engineering and science-related fields, which usually have a much higher pay rate and beginning salary. The biggest problem is the cultural sexism that pressures women into those roles, rather than specific employers overtly discriminating against women and paying them less for the same job (although that's an issue, too).

[Scrandon]

There's still a wage gap when occupation is controlled for.

[bung]

There's still a wage gap when occupation is controlled for.

That's why I mentioned that that's also an issue, too.

[zion the lion]

It's important. I'm pretty bummed I have over $150,000 in loans but no good job to show for it though.

That is the exact reason I decided to go with my fallback career instead of my first choice.

[loveisdead]

That is the exact reason I decided to go with my fallback career instead of my first choice.

Cool.

[zion the lion]

Cool.

I know, right!

[mcm1610]

What "career" do you have at 18 years old?

[RedWineSheets]

I feel like many colleges offer basic majors, bu nothing for like the real world, unless it's like a degree is some sort of medicine or law or something. Like a degree in English or Philosophy is so broad that like it doesn't really translate to a job.

And many go to community college and than go off to better colleges for grad. degrees.
At my CC, kids can go off to Harvard or UPenn.

:lol:

[deFobbed14yrs]

:lol:

That was insightful. I just meant a major where when you graduate you have a degree that holds a specific job. It's not too broad in a sense.

[mcm1610]

What about going to college to broaden your horizons?

[spiffa0]

What about going to college to broaden your horizons?

That's all well and good but eventually you have to weigh the benefits with the cost.

College is VERY important and everyone should have the opportunity to go. I think something needs to be done to lower the cost of attending college. With tuition increasing 5-10% every year, there will be no hope for my kids to afford college. You shouldn't have to go and come out the other end with an amount of debt that isn't possible to handle. Kids are walking out with 100K in debt, majoring in good fields, and getting paid 30K a year. There is a major problem with that, especially when your loan payment will be hovering around 1000 a month when they come calling.

[mcm1610]

Well, shouldn't part of the benefits include being a well-rounded person? I know it's idealistic, but there are social, non-monetary benefits of being educated. People are so wrapped up in grabbing good grades so that they can grab a good job so that they get a good paycheck, and I can't necessarily blame people like that, but while you're there at college you can learn something, too.

[Simulcast]

What about going to college to broaden your horizons?

Go to the public library. Unless you can pay for it all yourself.

[loveisdead]

Go to the public library. Unless you can pay for it all yourself.

nQezXbiroiE

[Simulcast]

I wish I could watch that.

[loveisdead]

I wish I could watch that.

It's the good will hunting scene where he says "you just wasted 150k on an education you could've got for 1.50 at the public library."

[Simulcast]

It's the good will hunting scene where he says "you just wasted 150k on an education you could've got for 1.50 at the public library."

Haha, can you believe I haven't seen that movie yet?

In certain circumstances, I think he's right.

[loveisdead]

Haha, can you believe I haven't seen that movie yet?

In certain circumstances, I think he's right.

Honestly, one of my favorite movies. I definitely suggest seeing it.

[mcm1610]

You see the episode of It's Always Sunny where they discuss that scene? It's pretty funny.

"Oh, but you're not a janitor..."

[caveBEAR]

You see the episode of It's Always Sunny where they discuss that scene? It's pretty funny.

"Oh, but you're not a janitor..."

My cousin's going to law school at Notre Dame, and I constantly challenge him to debate 'bird law' with me. (Which I know isn't from this particular episode, but whatever)

[Simulcast]

My cousin's going to law school at Notre Dame, and I constantly challenge him to debate 'bird law' with me. (Which I know isn't from this particular episode, but whatever)

"That lawyer guy, okay. He totally besmirched me today, and I DEMAND satisfaction."

[caveBEAR]

"That lawyer guy, okay. He totally besmirched me today, and I DEMAND satisfaction."

"....fillibuster."

[LostAllways]

It seems like vocational schooling and two-year degrees such as paralegals, dental hygienists, and x-ray technicians/radiologist jobs that pay a median salary of about $60k, in comparison to the average Bachelor's degree which pays, on average, about $45k, are a viable solution?