Victory Sues Carbon Copy Media

[Jason Tate]

Victory Records (http://www.victoryrecords.com) has filed a lawsuit against Carbon Copy Media (http://www.carboncopymedia.com) (JT of Hawthorne Height's label). You can download a PDF of the lawsuit in the replies to this post.

[Jason Tate]

You need Adobe Acrobat (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adobe.com%2Fpr oducts%2Facrobat%2Freadstep2.html&ei=nO6nRdPIKYecoQKI25maCg&usg=__Qe1En2WKASg8yuWRL_1zKt_8Qp8=&sig2=WkZH-CJMt2c-v8dt6Mz6BQ) to open this file.

[Criesofthepast7]

oh shit this is gonna be good.

[Jason Tate]

Interesting. I'm no lawyer, so I don't know if they have a case. But it's a very interesting read none the less, especially as a look into some of the "inside" of the industry.

/Anyone with any legal background have an opinion?

[Eurotrash Drock]

victory records stucks. tony brummel can go fly a kite.

with ben franklin.

[Criesofthepast7]

wait just to clear some things up, this is some one from hawthorne heights label right?

[thebarrelboy]

This will never end. Lawsuits go on for years and years, Hawthorne Heights will be a memory by the time they settle all of this. They should have recognized that they maybe got a raw deal and ponied up a few more albums instead of just announcing that they were leaving the label. I'm sure they would have been fine with their Victory arrangement if they weren't so popular.

[MomentOfSilence]

And now everyone has the guy from Hawthorne Height's address.

Should be an interesting read.

[Jason Tate]

And now everyone has the guy from Hawthorne Height's address.

Should be an interesting read.
After the lawsuit was filed it became public record.

[Wheez]

I'm no lawyer, but after a quick browse through that it actually seems like Victory has a legit complaint.

This is going to be interesting...

[axl rose]

Tony is a dusche

[MomentOfSilence]

I'm no lawyer, but after a quick browse through that it actually seems like Victory has a legit complaint.

This is going to be interesting...

Agreed. My first thought was that it was Victory just being a bitch again, but after reading through it, they seem to have a pretty good case.

[iamjeremywillia]

i have a decent knowledge of what went on w/ one of the bands. my hometown probably gives it away. by the wording in the suit, it really appears like Daily is really prominent in this. i was surprised.

[turbonium]

I don't know much about their legal contracts but it looks like Victory has a valid case here. They will probably get some money out of this suit.

[mylastnerv]

Wowness. Guess that's what happens when you totally jack up your career.

If all these statements are true, it seems Victory has alot of valid points, and a strong case.

[garlicgirl1210]

After the lawsuit was filed it became public record.

interesting.

this is my favorite part, under "statement of facts":
"Victory is an independent record company. Over many years it has developed a well-earned reputation for signing talented but unproven rock music artists outside the mainstream, and nuturing and developing the careers of those artists."

[Trainsaw]

the comments on his myspace page are hilarious

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofi le&friendid=69041725

its probably a fake myspace but its still a good read

[Criesofthepast7]

victory is gonna win the case.

carbon copy has no shot at all.

[lushintransit]

Well, I'm nowhere near taking my bar (I've only taken three law courses and none in this particular realm) but there are several holes in the statement of facts alone that are just easy logic: Firstly, I think it would be quite easy to proof that Victory is not nurturing nor compasionate towards it's clients. Secondly, Victory would have to proof that not only were HH 'unknown' prior to signing with Victory, but that their "success" is a direct result of signing with Victory. I'm also personally not sure how it's appropriate to sue a company because they're basically not making you money for money you know they don't have lol.

There is, of course a very clear case for Victory here. I was amazed to see that lol.

But that's just my opinion and I personally can't wait for all of the HH/Victory suits to settle so I can ssee whose heads and tails.

[ThoughtLanguage]

carbon copy owe's victory $200,000+...

and asteria is screwed thanks to th CC's terrible guidance... great

[aminorthreat55]

Interesting. I'm no lawyer, so I don't know if they have a case. But it's a very interesting read none the less, especially as a look into some of the "inside" of the industry.

/Anyone with any legal background have an opinion?
You and I probably share roughly the same amount of legal education, but from the looks of this it seems to me that Brummel is pissed that his business move didn't work and he wants his money back, so he is trying to argue that CC and JT did not fulfill their contractual obligations and are therefore subject to pay the money back. The lynchpin of this entire case is whether their distribution agreement included any language of this sort. Basically, a series of douchebag manuvers occurred and Brummel is pissed because someone fucked him over (ironic) and it all depends on what Carbon Copy agreed to in this distribution contract.

[Pooavenger]

Hawthorne Heights will be a memory by the time they settle all of this.

if they are still a memory that would be scary.

[lightcollapse]

well apparently JT is not a good businessman. but i doubt victory will get that much because of so many implied contracts.

[rosematter]

I'm no lawyer, but after a quick browse through that it actually seems like Victory has a legit complaint.

This is going to be interesting...


Yeah I took a look at that and although with any lawsuit, all of those statement of facts by Victory most likely aren't 100% true, that there is a boatload of apparent evidence that goes with Victory's side. I really don't see Carbon Copy winning this lawsuit based upon the federal tax arguement in the begining of the complaint. I used to work for the IRS so I know how a court will handle the tax implications of a legit "business" not owning a business bank account and depositing advance money into their own personal checking accounts. That right there is about enough to win the lawsuit, although I'm sure this will get settled out of court since it looks pretty one-sided.

[girlrepellant]

woodruff and daily deserve to get reamed for this shit they pulled.

[lightcollapse]

man. JT is a shitty businessman.

[lightcollapse]

but tony made a bad business move and now he lost some money, despite some contract violations he doesn't have a huge case. essentially he wants JT to lose money through lawyer fees, etc.

[DItaliaO]

I love the fact that they brought up that "Daily" had been working at Pepsi full-time instead of helping to run the label.


:thumbup: 2 thumbs up for "Daily" for bustin' his ass for Pepsi Co.

[animmortalsoul]

The first lawsuit I've seen where I hope both parties lose. I think Victory is right in what they're saying, Carbon Copy didn't follow through on their contract and Victory lost money. But I hate Tony Brummel.

[IAPAI]

Tony is a dusche

regardless, if you haven't read the document, it seems like Carbon Copy is the one at fault here. Big time.

[sean13thfloor]

Victory is ALWAYS in the middle of drama.

[lushintransit]

Yeah I took a look at that and although with any lawsuit, all of those statement of facts by Victory most likely aren't 100% true, that there is a boatload of apparent evidence that goes with Victory's side. I really don't see Carbon Copy winning this lawsuit based upon the federal tax arguement in the begining of the complaint. I used to work for the IRS so I know how a court will handle the tax implications of a legit "business" not owning a business bank account and depositing advance money into their own personal checking accounts. That right there is about enough to win the lawsuit, although I'm sure this will get settled out of court since it looks pretty one-sided.

Since you have the experience to know what your talking about, I'm rather curious: why do you think this will be settled out of court? I agree it's one sided but I've seen a lot more one-sided cases go to court that were less dire than the implications present here. Is it because of the tax issue?

[siimpx]

i want new brighten

[rosematter]

but tony made a bad business move and now he lost some money, despite some contract violations he doesn't have a huge case. essentially he wants JT to lose money through lawyer fees, etc.


True, and it will most likely work. The lawsuit might not win, but even if it doesn't, it's certainly not a frivilous lawsuit and doubtful that JT would win legal fees back. That stuff can really add up too.

However, this might just be a way to get an out of court settlement anyways, as a lawsuit at this point can just be a pressure point for more megotiations.

I wouldn't want to piss Tony off. This guy seems pretty vindictive going after not only JT but also his label. He really wants HH to pay I guess.

[Jason Tate]

i want new brighten
Me too.

[rosematter]

Since you have the experience to know what your talking about, I'm rather curious: why do you think this will be settled out of court? I agree it's one sided but I've seen a lot more one-sided cases go to court that were less dire than the implications present here. Is it because of the tax issue?


Nah it'll settle out of court because it's quicker and cheaper for both sides. I doubt Victory can get $200k for this lawsuit since they only cut Carbon Copy a check for $75k to start.

I think the real motive is to put more pressure on HH for their real legal battle they have going on, and this could be used by Tony to just exert more force on HH in the long run.

Eitehr way, there can't be a possible way that JT will win this lawsuit based on the statement of facts, if they are at least partly accurate. It seems pretty open and shut.

[redryder7]

Agreed. My first thought was that it was Victory just being a bitch again, but after reading through it, they seem to have a pretty good case.

ditto. the dudes from carbon copy are so lazy. why would you stop talking to the people that support your funds.

[msifreak]

The statement of facts were used to boost victory once again. And it is just him trying to get his money back on a failed operation. Hawthorne Heights was not a group of unknowns, as the band would have been known in their hometown, possibly more. That part of the "facts" can, and if they're smart can be used effectively in this case. One thing I've learned from criminal law is the best way to win is to get the other side to say you're right without actually saying it, or make them look like dumbasses. It says that they released the album as "A Day In The Life" before they were on victory, meaning they were not completely unknown.
If Brummel really had a problem with Woodruff's dropping of the two bands, and gave a shit, he'd drop a few more bucks and release the albums. But no, he is just trying to make money.

Carbon Copy was a vanity label. It was just something for JT Woodruff to try out, but brummel's money hogging/loving ass feels he needed to make a decent amount of money off of.

Not much of what I said was coherent, because I typed as I read, but they do have a case. They could win, but if brummel had any ethics at all, he's cut his losses and move on.

Yeah, I know I should capitalize the "b," but I don't have enough respect for him.

$200,000 will not kill the "#1 Independent Label! (Who releases albums with stickers on the front saying that the band you're looking at sounds similar to these three popular bands, but in reality, does not, in any way, shape, or form.)"

I personally believe Brummel and Woodruff should have a knife fight, and stab at the same time, as they are both useless to me.

Jury Trial Demanded. Heh. But yeah, due to the tax laws, Carbon Copy is fucked. But really, they were fucked from the start, as they stole my pet name for victory.

[still]

jt is married? weird.

[rosematter]

Since you have the experience to know what your talking about, I'm rather curious: why do you think this will be settled out of court? I agree it's one sided but I've seen a lot more one-sided cases go to court that were less dire than the implications present here. Is it because of the tax issue?


To expand on this point a bit more, if anyone cares to know what i meant about the tax implications, here we go:

A business that does not have its own checking account or file income tax returns will not be considered a legitimate business in the eyes of the government or IRS. Typically you see this referred to as a hobby vs business arguement (Section 183, hobby losses as they are popularly referred to as). In this case though, if CC loses that arguement and can't prove itself to be a legitimate business, then Victory has already won because it gave CC the advance money on the premise that they would be running a legitimate full-time business according to their arguement (and who would argue that, I wouldn't give anyone $75k to start a hobby!). Since CC isn't a real business, Victory wants their money back, and they would get it.

[msifreak]

Exactly. Why would you give 75,000 for a hobby. That's the point I meant to make. Tony is an idiot, and now I think so more than before, but he is definitely legally correct.

[cubz84]

granted this is written to make victory look good and we are only hearing one side of the case, CC is looking pretty shady. cant wait to read more about this and CC's story.

[still]

oh, and now that i've read it, carbon copy is fucked. as much as i'd like to see victory crumble and die, they will most definitely be winning this case.

[Jason Tate]

To expand on this point a bit more, if anyone cares to know what i meant about the tax implications, here we go:

A business that does not have its own checking account or file income tax returns will not be considered a legitimate business in the eyes of the government or IRS. Typically you see this referred to as a hobby vs business arguement (Section 183, hobby losses as they are popularly referred to as). In this case though, if CC loses that arguement and can't prove itself to be a legitimate business, then Victory has already won because it gave CC the advance money on the premise that they would be running a legitimate full-time business according to their arguement (and who would argue that, I wouldn't give anyone $75k to start a hobby!). Since CC isn't a real business, Victory wants their money back, and they would get it.
And just to add nothing really important to this ... but taxes are a real bitch.

[jtwoodruff]

wow, i havent even received this yet...i will say that carbon copy media has a bank account. tax id number. that is 100 percent true. tony must really hate me.

[MusicTillIDie]

This is gonna be interesting.

Brummel obviously didnt do his homework first to check out woodruff's new venture. No bank accounts for the company(carbon copy) and he still gave stupid $$$$ to them. Although CC arent blameless either, since it looks like theyve just pissed it up the wall.

But in the end it looks like Victory have a strong case.

Woodruff better have a good lawyer

[bankrom]

wow, i havent even received this yet...i will say that carbon copy media has a bank account. tax id number. that is 100 percent true. tony must really hate me.

probably, but at least you got a couple of gold records out of the deal

[Matt_Dizzle]

oh shiiit brummel is PWNing this n00bsz life right now

[thebarrelboy]

One thing I've learned from criminal law is the best way to win is to get the other side to say you're right without actually saying it, or make them look like dumbasses.


This isn't a criminal case, it's a civil suit. It will also never make it to court, the amount of money involved is far too low.

[Jason Tate]

I guess now I'm curious how, after all of this, anyone expects HH to release their next album on Victory? After, I thought Victory was saying they had to?

I'm confused on that whole situation.

[permanentdan]

thats kinda of a dick move on carbon copys part. i feel bad for asteria. i knew they got screwed, but didnt realize how so. that sucks. we were trying to get some shows set up with eachother back a couple months ago, but nothing ende dup working out here in pittsburgh.

[msifreak]

I take a class called criminal law that covers civil and criminal law.

[rich_wbd]

That was a good read... JT and Daily are fucked. $200,000 + related fees will not be easy to raise. At all. I feel horrible for the bands, I only really cared about Ivory and Brighten, but it still sucks that ANY band would have to go through a nightmare like that.

[ManicanParty49]

Hmm, I didn't read through the whole thing, but yeah, it looks like TB has got a strong case, though it looks like to me, it's just more of a "revenge" case against HH for dropping the label.

[Tony Pascarella]

Honestly, I think HH will win their suit with Victory, but Carbon Copy will lose this one. If it works out, the band will make a lot more than JT and Carbon Copy lose in this one.

:shrug:

[Ignoto]

Someone should've sued JT Woodruff and Hawthorne Heights along time ago anyway, for crimes against music. And as for Tony Brummel? He's no better, letting Hawthorne Heights and Aiden onto the world, duping people into buyin music that is devoid of talent and originality. Maybe someone should sue him. At the end of the day, its not about the music, its all about the $$$.

[DSGSanchez]

I'm going into my 4th semester of law school and this action by Victory is basically a piercing the coporate veil action. What that means is that more than likely Carbon Copy is broke and Victory is looking to get repaid. In order to get repaid it must pierce the corporate shell of Carbon Copy to reach the assets of its owners. As an LLC, the owners of said company have limited liabillity (as the name implies). However, since an LLC is part partnership/part corporation, different rules apply in each state. It is apparent that in the first 2 pages, Victory has laid the "elements" to pierce the coporate veil. Whether the elements are sufficient to pierce in Illinois or Ohio is yet to be seen.

While persons here are speaking of the statement of the facts, you have to understand that statement of the facts in Complaints, are skewed toward one side. Attorneys need merely satisfy Rule 8(a) (a short and plain statement of the injury), and Rule 11 (ethics rule - allegations can only be made on information and belief after some reasonable investigation) under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure in order to file a Complaint. They are not necessarily the truth, but a solid representation of the facts as the plaintiff views them.

What will be interesting to see will be Carbon Copy's Answer. I guess we'll stay tuned

[Prestonxsmith]

Anyone catch the "The Year In The Life"?

[kallok]

The courts don't give a shit about how much Victory sux and etc. I think that Carbon Copy is screwed. I'm not an attorney, I'm a business major that has taken business law courses. If that's true they didn't have a bank account for the company and don't have any tax returns filed, they're gona get busted by the government for taxes. If they can prove they lost 200k or whatever, that's not gona be good for Carbon Copy. Either way, I think they're done with.

At least they were smart enough to get an LLC.

[MultisensoryAE]

I forgot CarbonCopy made so many good signings until I read this. I <3 Brighten.

[pillpillow]

Honestly, I think HH will win their suit with Victory, but Carbon Copy will lose this one. If it works out, the band will make a lot more than JT and Carbon Copy lose in this one.

:shrug:

HH already won the suit against victory. $500,000.

[stevecrumb]

did nobody else catch that their home addresses are now on the internet for every 15 year old girl in that area to see?

[TheOldJostler]

Interesting. I'm no lawyer, so I don't know if they have a case. But it's a very interesting read none the less, especially as a look into some of the "inside" of the industry.

/Anyone with any legal background have an opinion?

Why yes, I do. Justice THE OLD JOSTLER, dissenting.

The HH kids wanted to form a record label. To protect themselves, they formed an LLC - it's kind of like a corporation, except for smaller businesses. The main benefit of forming an LLC is that the individuals that make up an LLC are not personally liable for the debts or actions of the LLC. States allow businesses to incorporate or form an LLC et. al as an inducement to conduct business within the state: in exchange for doing business within the state, you are afforded certain advantages (taxes, limited liability, etc.) Here, Victory is trying to "pierce the veil" of Carbon Copy Media, LLC, by arguing that there is esentially no difference between Carbon Copy and Woodruff/Daily. If the LLC form was truly disregarded by Woodruff/Daily - which, if you believe Victory, it was - and the allegations are true, Woodruff/Daily would be personally liable for the money Victory sunk into Carbon Copy. An LLC is a shield - you can't use it as a sword to perpetuate fraud.

If Carbon Copy was for real, it probably has a document called an operating agreement, which would lay out the formalities of the LLC - capitalization structure, proceedures, yadda yadda. The court will take a look at that, see what Carbon Copy actually did, and go from there. Generally, it is very difficult to pierce the veil, but the standard varies from state to state. One would have to have a knowledge of how strict a standard there is to pierce the veil in Illinois to make a prediction as to what might happen here.

For fun, let's assume Victory is right - they sunk money into a void called Carbon Copy Media, LLC, which, in reality, was smoke and mirrors and nothing more than an extra expense account for Woodruff/Daily. If that's indeed the case, those goobers will be personally on the hook for the judgment. If Victory is right, but the court finds Carbon Copy to have followed enough formalities so as not to pierce the veil, the judgment is entered against Carbon Copy and, well, good luck to Victory trying to get any money out of them. If Victory's just wrong altogether, they get stuck for whatever they sunk into this record label and, tough tits.

[hollywoodending]

this looks legit.

poor guys that got signed to carbon copy...

[dingy]

TJ is not the brightest person

[TAC]

Interesting. I'm no lawyer, so I don't know if they have a case. But it's a very interesting read none the less, especially as a look into some of the "inside" of the industry.

/Anyone with any legal background have an opinion?


If verbal promises were made for Daily to quit Pepsi and run the label, and more importantly promises to deliver albums from those artists before the agreement was in place.... then they are screwed. Problem is it has to be proved that those words were said.

[truthbetoldxx]

fuck victory

[TAC]

Why yes, I do. Justice THE OLD JOSTLER, dissenting.

The HH kids wanted to form a record label. To protect themselves, they formed an LLC - it's kind of like a corporation, except for smaller businesses. The main benefit of forming an LLC is that the individuals that make up an LLC are not personally liable for the debts or actions of the LLC. States allow businesses to incorporate or form an LLC et. al as an inducement to conduct business within the state: in exchange for doing business within the state, you are afforded certain advantages (taxes, limited liability, etc.) Here, Victory is trying to "pierce the veil" of Carbon Copy Media, LLC, by arguing that there is esentially no difference between Carbon Copy and Woodruff/Daily. If the LLC form was truly disregarded by Woodruff/Daily - which, if you believe Victory, it was - and the allegations are true, Woodruff/Daily would be personally liable for the money Victory sunk into Carbon Copy. An LLC is a shield - you can't use it as a sword to perpetuate fraud.

If Carbon Copy was for real, it probably has a document called an operating agreement, which would lay out the formalities of the LLC - capitalization structure, proceedures, yadda yadda. The court will take a look at that, see what Carbon Copy actually did, and go from there. Generally, it is very difficult to pierce the veil, but the standard varies from state to state. One would have to have a knowledge of how strict a standard there is to pierce the veil in Illinois to make a prediction as to what might happen here.

For fun, let's assume Victory is right - they sunk money into a void called Carbon Copy Media, LLC, which, in reality, was smoke and mirrors and nothing more than an extra expense account for Woodruff/Daily. If that's indeed the case, those goobers will be personally on the hook for the judgment. If Victory is right, but the court finds Carbon Copy to have followed enough formalities so as not to pierce the veil, the judgment is entered against Carbon Copy and, well, good luck to Victory trying to get any money out of them. If Victory's just wrong altogether, they get stuck for whatever they sunk into this record label and, tough tits.


Hey, so this is somewhat off subject...but since your an attorney.... What if a corporation is involentarily desoved because of their not filing annual reports. Would a band signed to that corporation then be able to leave its agreement because the state no longer recognizes that company as a corporation?

[jetsto]

fuck victory
you're probably just pissed that they wont sign your shitty band...

[JimmyRichards]

this really sucks. bad.

[siimpx]

it looks like a strong case, and i don't know much about law, but it looks like he just made a bad investment. he obviously invested in a company that didn't have a legit business plan & i didn't realize you could sue to recover from that.

[jimboj917]

yea, i'm siding with victory on this one. poor ellision and the other bands though, that's just awful.

[saveyourshows]

I just read this entire thing in full and i think Victory has this one in the bag. Things arent gonna go smoothly with this either im guessing...

[berniemac1234]

victory is gonna win the case.

carbon copy has no shot at all.
I disagree. There are many things that are untrue in this case or seem to be untrue. The only 2 bands that say that they're not on Carbon Copy are Ivory and Asteria. Ivory is not broken up. They have shows scheduled. I mean don't forget...we're still dealing with Tony Brummel. I wouldn't be susprised if Victory lost this case.

[TheOldJostler]

Hey, so this is somewhat off subject...but since your an attorney.... What if a corporation is involentarily desoved because of their not filing annual reports. Would a band signed to that corporation then be able to leave its agreement because the state no longer recognizes that company as a corporation?

Generally speaking, a dissolved corporation can sue and be sued. The corporation still exists; it just can't do business anymore. State law usually lays out what a dissolved corporation can and can't do, so it may vary from one state to another.

Suck it, Jeffery Toobin.

Love,

AP.net's in-house counsel

[letitbe]

this really sucks. bad.

yes it does. brighten for lyfe

[thatwasamoment]

well carbon copy screwed up big time.

this is scaring me of my dream of starting a label.

[Sleepaway]

wow, i havent even received this yet...i will say that carbon copy media has a bank account. tax id number. that is 100 percent true. tony must really hate me.


Thats pretty crazy, that it was on the internet before you even received information about it.

How do you feel about the case, JT? Seriously, I'm interested to know your thoughts here.

[cory-182]

All this over Day in the Life albums?

It's awful...the only member fro Hawthorne Heights in the band is JT. I know cuz I'm a sucker who bought it.

[fullerm]

first off, I'm not gonna deny that carbon copy was a horrible waste of time and money for those who invested and the bands that were dragged along. It seems no effort was put forth to establish a legitimate business.


but i do feel that victory has absolutely no chance in hell of "winning" this case, if you will.

the amount of vagaries in that document are so numerous that it is absolutely impossible to find out what exactly they are looking for or wanting here. What ever lawyers are behind this should be ashamed of themselves. The document looks like a blog with a list of complaints about the how they ran the business. the lawsuit even admitted that the only thing that was at stake here was the distribution agreement. in the first part of the document they brought up a number of 30k that JT supposedly "cashed" into his account without ever mentioning that again. The only number they really had was 75k to start the business and ended up saying that victory had lost over 200k without bringing in any other numbers or facts.


maybe tony is coming to the realization, as should every other god damned label out there, that character is more important than talent when signing a band. he's just upset he gave 75k to some punk just to piss it away on nothing and he thinks he can get his money back. maybe tony isn't doing so hot these days when it comes to finances. he's losing the race against FBR here and now hes just grabbing at straws here.

[falloutboy.]

that was a good read.. i think victory is going to win something in compensation, atleast that check that was deposited into their personal account, if proven.. wow..

[leftstranded]

this seems like victory has a legitimate case

although it's just one side of the story, if that's all correct than victory will win this case very easily

problem will be accually getting the money, even though it's easy to win a civil case, it's hard as fuck to get the money

[falloutboy.]

wow, i havent even received this yet...i will say that carbon copy media has a bank account. tax id number. that is 100 percent true. tony must really hate me.
hey jt, i really dig your band big time and so does colorado, but what the heck happened here? was this just a job to prove not only you could play music but you could find good music too, that failed with time? im curious on what your thinking

[socalchica]

CC offered Zella Mayzell to be their first signing. they said no. hahahaaa... smart boys.

[Jamais_vu]

I'm sure everything Victory said in that claim was true because we all know what great business practices they have from all the shinning examples set forth in the past.......:rolleyes:

[lividman5k]

Don't know, if someone mentioned it before, but these a failure in the document. In point 16 it says something about "A Year In The Life", but it must be "A Day In The Life"^^

[thatwasamoment]

first off, I'm not gonna deny that carbon copy was a horrible waste of time and money for those who invested and the bands that were dragged along. It seems no effort was put forth to establish a legitimate business.


but i do feel that victory has absolutely no chance in hell of "winning" this case, if you will.

the amount of vagaries in that document are so numerous that it is absolutely impossible to find out what exactly they are looking for or wanting here. What ever lawyers are behind this should be ashamed of themselves. The document looks like a blog with a list of complaints about the how they ran the business. the lawsuit even admitted that the only thing that was at stake here was the distribution agreement. in the first part of the document they brought up a number of 30k that JT supposedly "cashed" into his account without ever mentioning that again. The only number they really had was 75k to start the business and ended up saying that victory had lost over 200k without bringing in any other numbers or facts.


maybe tony is coming to the realization, as should every other god damned label out there, that character is more important than talent when signing a band. he's just upset he gave 75k to some punk just to piss it away on nothing and he thinks he can get his money back. maybe tony isn't doing so hot these days when it comes to finances. he's losing the race against FBR here and now hes just grabbing at straws here.JT? is that you?

just kidding.

actually, tony brummel seems like a major dick and I really dont know how he lives with himself if most of what ive read has any truth to it.

[zerock]

JT, u have seriously dissapointed me.

[bankrom]

maybe tony is coming to the realization, as should every other god damned label out there, that character is more important than talent when signing a band.

think about what you just said.

[Dahstin]

Hahahahaha! i love the part where j.t. takes 75,000 from victory. bout time victory paid its artist some $$ lol. i also really liked the part where it said "Victory is an independant record company. over many years it has developed a well earned reputation for signing talented but unproven rock music artist! lmao someone has a sense of humor. So basically Jt has become much the same dillhole that victory is! hmmm. well i really do hope that victory can sue the crap out of theese guys for not uphoalding thier end of the bargin, just so that in turn every single band on victory's label can turn around and sue victory for not holding up to thier end of thier bargin and shafting them out of much money. Ya victory is going to bring itself to its total demise whoooooo Hooooo no more crappy music!!!!!!!!

[msifreak]

you're probably just pissed that they wont sign your shitty band...

No because if they were shitty, they would get signed.

[theguilt engine]

Might not want to have the addresses clearly visible to the public...

[MatthiasEllis]

it seems to me that tony brummel just wants his money back because they didnt do a good job.

didnt he just give jt the money because they had a "good relationship"?

how is that going to hold up in court?

[serpico]

Victory is ALWAYS in the middle of drama.
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