Random thoughts

[sigh]

Some thoughts of mine.

Q:If a tree is the last living thing on earth, and it falls does it make a sound?
A: No, because if nothing hears it, it does not make a sound. What is sound if nothing hears it? No concious being is affected by it? Then there is no sound.

Q: Could a universe exist without concious or living minds existing in it?
A: No, because there would be no reason for it to be there. A bunch of matter does not exist if it doesnt affect any concious mind, or it would not exist if a concious mind could percieve it was there.

Q: Then how did our universe exist before life?
A: My belief is that this is how God exists. A concious being that existed when the universe was possibly created. It had to be there to realize the universe existed. This does not explain Gods presence now, or if he did create the universe

[FishAlotNBePunk]

Q. Why are asians so smart?
A. Because.

[SnowintheSummer]

Originally posted by sigh
Some thoughts of mine.
Q: Could a universe exist without concious or living minds existing in it?
A: No, because there would be no reason for it to be there. A bunch of matter does not exist if it doesnt affect any concious mind, or it would not exist if a concious mind could percieve it was there.



whoa. cool. never thought of that. but what about things that no one knows about but one day its discovered? does it start existing when it is discovered, even if its proven that it existed prior to being discovered but its just that no one knew about it?

[.&$]

Q. what is 2 +2?
A. 4

[Greg]

Originally posted by .&$
Q. what is 2 +2?
A. 4

if fairy godparents exist 2+2=fish.....

[theused_FSF]

my random thoughts


how quickly can i eat a sandwich?
8 seconds

how many books can i read in 4 hours?
i cant read

how many times can i run around my house in 3 hours?
0, i dont run...hahahaha

[pikenz]

what if someone opened an inconvenience store

[papathomas]

Originally posted by sad_but_true
My ranmblings:

You are a piece of shit. There are no concious minds perceiving trees falling all over the world at any given moment in time, yet they still fall and they still make a sound. Sound is a scientific reaction. It doesn't matter whether or not someone is there to perceive it. If nothing happened unless someone saw it, then pretty much nothing would ever happen. Saying that sound doesnt exist without perception is like saying a bomb won't explode unless someone perceives it...which we all know is 100% untrue. The universe was created by a giant explosion. A seperation of a perfect 10 dimensional universe, not some random ****** walking around in outer space who decided to one day just make a planet with living creatures on it. By your theory I cna easily pose the question to you, well who was to perceive god's birth? Who HEARD him say "let there be light"? Who came up with the idea for worshipping the air? And who the hell gives 2 shits about your retarted theories? I'm done for now. pwned

[FishAlotNBePunk]

Originally posted by sad_but_true
My ranmblings:

You are a piece of shit. There are no concious minds perceiving trees falling all over the world at any given moment in time, yet they still fall and they still make a sound. Sound is a scientific reaction. It doesn't matter whether or not someone is there to perceive it. If nothing happened unless someone saw it, then pretty much nothing would ever happen. Saying that sound doesnt exist without perception is like saying a bomb won't explode unless someone perceives it...which we all know is 100% untrue. The universe was created by a giant explosion. A seperation of a perfect 10 dimensional universe, not some random ****** walking around in outer space who decided to one day just make a planet with living creatures on it. By your theory I cna easily pose the question to you, well who was to perceive god's birth? Who HEARD him say "let there be light"? Who came up with the idea for worshipping the air? And who the hell gives 2 shits about your retarted theories? I'm done for now.

jeeze man take some valuum or something.

[runawaystapler]

Originally posted by sad_but_true
My ranmblings:

You are a piece of shit. There are no concious minds perceiving trees falling all over the world at any given moment in time, yet they still fall and they still make a sound. Sound is a scientific reaction. It doesn't matter whether or not someone is there to perceive it. If nothing happened unless someone saw it, then pretty much nothing would ever happen. Saying that sound doesnt exist without perception is like saying a bomb won't explode unless someone perceives it...which we all know is 100% untrue. The universe was created by a giant explosion. A seperation of a perfect 10 dimensional universe, not some random ****** walking around in outer space who decided to one day just make a planet with living creatures on it. By your theory I cna easily pose the question to you, well who was to perceive god's birth? Who HEARD him say "let there be light"? Who came up with the idea for worshipping the air? And who the hell gives 2 shits about your retarted theories? I'm done for now.

wow.........thats sad

.....but true

[Diet Bubba]

hmmm.. i have to take a shit:cool:

[BrandNewDream]

Originally posted by sad_but_true
My ranmblings:

You are a piece of shit. There are no concious minds perceiving trees falling all over the world at any given moment in time, yet they still fall and they still make a sound. Sound is a scientific reaction. It doesn't matter whether or not someone is there to perceive it. If nothing happened unless someone saw it, then pretty much nothing would ever happen. Saying that sound doesnt exist without perception is like saying a bomb won't explode unless someone perceives it...which we all know is 100% untrue. The universe was created by a giant explosion. A seperation of a perfect 10 dimensional universe, not some random ****** walking around in outer space who decided to one day just make a planet with living creatures on it. By your theory I cna easily pose the question to you, well who was to perceive god's birth? Who HEARD him say "let there be light"? Who came up with the idea for worshipping the air? And who the hell gives 2 shits about your retarted theories? I'm done for now.

bro, you're a fuckin piece of shit. he posted that for the people who are halfway intelligent on this board, which obviously doesn't include you. you don't need to go off and ask who gives a shit about his theories, because it's better than 99% of the shit on this site. if you don't give a shit, don't go off posting a rant about it. asshole.

[sigh]

Originally posted by sad_but_true
My ranmblings:

You are a piece of shit. There are no concious minds perceiving trees falling all over the world at any given moment in time, yet they still fall and they still make a sound. Sound is a scientific reaction. It doesn't matter whether or not someone is there to perceive it. If nothing happened unless someone saw it, then pretty much nothing would ever happen. Saying that sound doesnt exist without perception is like saying a bomb won't explode unless someone perceives it...which we all know is 100% untrue. The universe was created by a giant explosion. A seperation of a perfect 10 dimensional universe, not some random ****** walking around in outer space who decided to one day just make a planet with living creatures on it. By your theory I cna easily pose the question to you, well who was to perceive god's birth? Who HEARD him say "let there be light"? Who came up with the idea for worshipping the air? And who the hell gives 2 shits about your retarted theories? I'm done for now.
actually, why would there be sound waves, if nothing affects it? You could say there are sound waves, but it is irrelevant if there is sound or not. And i never talked about how God existed, all i can say is that I know God exists because of my theory. Trees make sounds in our world because there are other living things living on the planet.

[Doolittle]

what the fuck? that makes no sense. youre saying sund waves and the universe would exist becuase they didnt have a purpose? please stop talking.

[sigh]

im saying why would the universe exist if it doesnt need to? If there was no mind to say: "i think therefore i am, i know that i am here and im existing, along with the universe." Then the universe has no reason to exist because it does not affect any concious beings.

[Ronin]

Originally posted by sigh
im saying why would the universe exist if it doesnt need to? If there was no mind to say: "i think therefore i am, i know that i am here and im existing, along with the universe." Then the universe has no reason to exist because it does not affect any concious beings.

So what conscious mind was it affecting for the billions of years that it existed before the rise of cogniscent life?

You could say God, but that's an argument that can't be argued well from either side.

You're proposing a very human centred universal view. The universe only exists if WE need it to? We're insignificant in relation to the rest of the universe. This is similar to the thought that the earth is the centre of the universe.

[heydrewhi]

you are simply talking about cause and effect- your argument is 'since there is nothing to see it, experience it, feel it- precieve it then it doesn't happen.' The world as we know it is a product of just a whole bunch of reactions- many being cause and effect. Just because we do not precieve things happenening does not mean they otherwise wouldn't occur. For example, the tree would fall due to gravity, and it would make a sound due to the reaction between the tree and the ground producing sound waves. Therefore if living organisms ceases to exist, the world would go on as usual, nothing would change... and yes the tree would still make a sound

[sigh]

well, im saying there had to be some concious mind before the universe existed, or as the universe was being created

[Ronin]

Originally posted by sigh
well, im saying there had to be some concious mind before the universe existed, or as the universe was being created

Who says there has to be?
What's your definition of "consciousness"?
If there is a God, wouldn't his/her level of "consciousness" be on a level which we couldn't even comprehend?

[Doolittle]

Originally posted by sigh
well, im saying there had to be some concious mind before the universe existed, or as the universe was being created

so youre arguing that god is why stuff exists? that argument isnt goign to get you anywhere. how about you and greg go have a little theology chat

[heydrewhi]

Originally posted by sigh
well, im saying there had to be some concious mind before the universe existed, or as the universe was being created

The conscious mind was created through more reactions... reactions of amebas with other amebas, evolving into a multi-celled organism, there was nothing else 'before the universe existed'... holy hell i don't think the thread started as a argument about the beginning of life, dudes...

[Ronin]

Originally posted by heydrewhi
there was nothing else 'before the universe existed'.

You were there? You know this for a fact?

You people really need to think about things before you say them. Stop handing down your opinions as if they're immutable truths. Throw in an "I think..." every now and then, it makes you seem alot more intelligent.

This isn't really directed at you though dude, you seem pretty well spoken.

[heydrewhi]

Originally posted by Ronin

You people really need to think about things before you say them. Stop handing down your opinions as if they're immutable truths. Throw in an "I think..." every now and then, it makes you seem alot more intelligent.


Yeah, i just get a little excited sometimes, my bad.

What do you think about this whole thing, you got an opinion? just curious, i need another veiwpoint

[SonnyPunk]

This is an age-old, pointless argument. There will never be an answer...

[evil zach]

Originally posted by sigh
Some thoughts of mine.
Q: Could a universe exist without concious or living minds existing in it?
A: No, because there would be no reason for it to be there. A bunch of matter does not exist if it doesnt affect any concious mind, or it would not exist if a concious mind could percieve it was there.

Q: Then how did our universe exist before life?
A: My belief is that this is how God exists. A concious being that existed when the universe was possibly created. It had to be there to realize the universe existed. This does not explain Gods presence now, or if he did create the universe
Weather or not the universe would exist or not with out concious minds is a pretty broud statement. Perhaps that the univers can only exsist to concious mids would be more accurate. Suppose for a minute that you didn't exist, but everybody else did. For them the universe would exist, but for you it wouldn't, because you didn't exist either.

our theory prooves that god exists to a bielver of the judeao-christian beliefe system. But to all others it dosn't proove anything. Personaly I belive in the buddhist theory that the universe always existed, but I also belive in the big bang. There ares ome theories that the universeis constantly expanding. Eventually it will reacha point were it can expand no more, and it will burst (much like a balloon) and cause a huge explosion, or big bang. Essentally, I belive that the universe has always existed, and will always exist, but has always, and will continue to die and be reborn

[heydrewhi]

Originally posted by evil zach
I belive that the universe has always existed, and will always exist, but has always, and will continue to die and be reborn

im intrigued... go on. Would this mean that a whole new batch of solar sytems, planets, and essentially a whole new batch of humans and animals would be re-created everytime... maybe our next universe wouldn't have hitler in its history? (that is so cliche, i apologize)

[SonnyPunk]

Originally posted by evil zach
Essentally, I belive that the universe has always existed, and will always exist, but has always, and will continue to die and be reborn

He's right. The amount of time that humans have inhabited the earth is just a tiny fragment compared to the amount of time the earth has most likely existed. I think the human race will eventually die out and this earth will continue to exist forever the way it once was...without us.

[evil zach]

Originally posted by heydrewhi
im intrigued... go on. Would this mean that a whole new batch of solar sytems, planets, and essentially a whole new batch of humans and animals would be re-created everytime... maybe our next universe wouldn't have hitler in its history? (that is so cliche, i apologize)
That I am unsure of. Either everything will be exactly same, or the exact opposite.

[heydrewhi]

whatever the answer is it kinda sucks that i won't be around to see how it ends... or even be around to understand how it began.

Also interesting- Stephen Hawking (guy in a wheelchair, talks through a computer) says by the year 3200 or something like that, everyone in the world would be standing shoulder to shoulder with no room to move around and the earth would glow red-hot by the amount of energy use (based on the exponential growth, i guess)

[D.B.Cooper]

Why is there only ONE Monopolies Commission?:confused:

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by sigh

Q: Then how did our universe exist before life?
A: My belief is that this is how God exists. A concious being that existed when the universe was possibly created. It had to be there to realize the universe existed. This does not explain Gods presence now, or if he did create the universe

Ooh yes, this is good stuff. From this I have to raise another question. What if God is dead? Give that some good thought. What if God came, oversaw creation, died and we are just here to live, procreate and die off. Isn't that scary? But what's scarier is it could be true. There is nothing that exists today outside of a few windows with stains resembling Mary and a statue which supposedly bleeds to prove God is still even alive. Just because a being is infallible says nothing about his/her lifespan. God could have been alive just a few mere seconds. Or furthermore, not at all. The universe could be a celestial accident. The universe is expanding, scientists know this, eventually it will max out and begin to shrink. At some point it may dissapear entirely, and what will be there? Nothingness is the only other thing. And beyond the concept of God, it is the only concept which is truly infallible. Just be a little warned if you think to hard you will probably freak yourself out. Seriously.

P.S. Try reading some of Nietzsche's philosophies on this very subject, it's very interesting.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by evil zach
There ares ome theories that the universeis constantly expanding. Eventually it will reacha point were it can expand no more, and it will burst (much like a balloon) and cause a huge explosion, or big bang. Essentally, I belive that the universe has always existed, and will always exist, but has always, and will continue to die and be reborn

Not neccesarily, there are also theories claiming the unciverse will shrink back into a small ball of matter only to explode again. Because of this, it's possible there have been thousands of universes before us, and even more will follow us...

[evil zach]

Eiter way the univers will continue to die and be reborn for ever

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by evil zach
Eiter way the univers will continue to die and be reborn for ever

True

[sigh]

Originally posted by heydrewhi
whatever the answer is it kinda sucks that i won't be around to see how it ends... or even be around to understand how it began.

Also interesting- Stephen Hawking (guy in a wheelchair, talks through a computer) says by the year 3200 or something like that, everyone in the world would be standing shoulder to shoulder with no room to move around and the earth would glow red-hot by the amount of energy use (based on the exponential growth, i guess)
i have the book where he says that, and it is actually 2600.
To zach: your buddhist theory could go along with what i am saying. If "God" was a being left over (somehow i have no clue) from a previous universe, then that proves my point. I remember reading from another buddhist creation myth about how the first being to "descend" from the first world to the second, names himself "Brahma" (god-like figure) and all other beings also thought he was "Brahma" Also, how you say that if i didnt exist, but other people existed then the universe was still there? (i think thats what you said) Well how do you know any of us are "real?" we could just be images that someone has fooled your brain into believeing are "real". While i cant answer that, i think Descartes said it very well when he said that he can only know that "i think therefore i am" (youve probably heard this). (A lot of that sounds like Matrix Reloaded; love that movie)
And to whomever talked about amoebas and single-celled organisms evovling into concious minds, i believed in that too, but i questioned why the universe would have existed before any living things, (on Earth or otherwise) in the whole universe existed. While having the potential to creating life, our universe would have no reason to be there, as it does not affect or is not percieved upon by any concious mind.

[evil zach]

We can never be sure that anything is real. we just have to assume. For all intents and purposes, the univers only exists to concious mindes. Anything in any other realm dosn't exist to us as it simply isn't tangable. In grade nine my math teacher said to me "untill you can measure it it dosn't exists" I've thought about that everyday for 3 years, and have yet to think of anything in this universe that canot be measured in one way or an other. Essentally, somethingonly exists when you can prove its existence. Right now everything around me is real to me. There is the possibility that it exists only to me. There is the possibity that all of this (the universe and everything in it) is nothing more then a figement of my imaginiation. But it is morel ogical to belive that it dose infact exist physicly, and not just mentally, so we must assume it is real.

[sigh]

i would caution against any assumations, but i would say that i believe that the world i am living in is real, but i do not know for sure

[evil zach]

I don'y like assumptions either, but I have nothing to compare this existence to, so Im ust assume it is real

[sigh]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
Ooh yes, this is good stuff. From this I have to raise another question. What if God is dead? Give that some good thought. What if God came, oversaw creation, died and we are just here to live, procreate and die off. Isn't that scary? But what's scarier is it could be true. There is nothing that exists today outside of a few windows with stains resembling Mary and a statue which supposedly bleeds to prove God is still even alive. Just because a being is infallible says nothing about his/her lifespan. God could have been alive just a few mere seconds. Or furthermore, not at all. The universe could be a celestial accident. The universe is expanding, scientists know this, eventually it will max out and begin to shrink. At some point it may dissapear entirely, and what will be there? Nothingness is the only other thing. And beyond the concept of God, it is the only concept which is truly infallible. Just be a little warned if you think to hard you will probably freak yourself out. Seriously.

P.S. Try reading some of Nietzsche's philosophies on this very subject, it's very interesting.
As the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy pointed out, God only exists because of our belief. If we proved he existed to everyone, he would no longer exist.(although i dont necessarly agree with this, its an interesting point)

I have been taking a summer school class and our teacher always reiterates how the "spirtual" or the "sacred" (God, higher beings) can not be explained with human logic, any rational questions about religion is essentialy asking the wrong question.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by sigh
As the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy pointed out, God only exists because of our belief. If we proved he existed to everyone, he would no longer exist.(although i dont necessarly agree with this, its an interesting point)

I have been taking a summer school class and our teacher always reiterates how the "spirtual" or the "sacred" (God, higher beings) can not be explained with human logic, any rational questions about religion is essentialy asking the wrong question.

Read Homo Eccius by Friedrich Nitzsche, it's very interesting along those lines. Also check out some of the philosphers existentialist movement, all of them are very interesting. I've spent many a night reading their ideas, and it really has given me a good perspective and some points I'd never considered. Check out anything on this you can find. And keep this thread alive too, this is actually some good discussion.

[sigh]

i will check those out thanks for the positive input

[cantnokdahustle]

Originally posted by sigh
myth

!!!!