Socialized healthcare

[WithStamin]

Should healthcare be the government's job?

[Charlito Cafe]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Should healthcare be the government's job?

Yes. I think it's the government's duty to take care of the populace to a certain extent. Government healthcare is there for people who can't afford the private stuff. Similar to government appointed attornies(sp?).

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by Charlito Cafe
Yes. I think it's the government's duty to take care of the populace to a certain extent. Government healthcare is there for people who can't afford the private stuff. Similar to government appointed attornies(sp?). But at what cost does it come? In every system of socialized healthcare, everyone is required to enroll. That means everyone gets the same healthcare. And that costs money. So you either have unbelievable taxes or bad healthcare for everyone.

Then you get situatons like this obesity "epimemic" where people are doing things that are perfectly legal, yet unhealthy. The start burdening the system and bankrupting it. So, the government has to do something about it. Now we have ideas like this "fat tax" that look like they actually might happen in New York where the government is forced to take away people's rights and become practically authoritarian.

There are more problems, but I don't feel like typing them all out now. :D I'll save them for later in the debate.

[Ronin]

Originally posted by WithStamin
But at what cost does it come? In every system of socialized healthcare, everyone is required to enroll. That means everyone gets the same healthcare. And that costs money. So you either have unbelievable taxes or bad healthcare for everyone.

Then you get situatons like this obesity "epimemic" where people are doing things that are perfectly legal, yet unhealthy. The start burdening the system and bankrupting it. So, the government has to do something about it. Now we have ideas like this "fat tax" that look like they actually might happen in New York where the government is forced to take away people's rights and become practically authoritarian.

There are more problems, but I don't feel like typing them all out now. :D I'll save them for later in the debate.

I think Canada's a good example of the pros of socialized health care

But I think about 40-50% of our taxes go into the health care system.

I have no problem with that though, I take pride in our health care system.

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by Ronin


I have no problem with that though, I take pride in our health care system. Do you actually pay taxes?

And here's (http://www.cliches.org/PDF/chapter60.pdf) how well that socialized healthcare in Canada in actually working.

[Ronin]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Do you actually pay taxes?

And here's (http://www.cliches.org/PDF/chapter60.pdf) how well that socialized healthcare in Canada in actually working.

First of all you nitwit, yes I fucking pay taxes, several hundred dollars every month comes off of my paycheck.

Secondly, think about the statistics presented here. Obviously the US has more equipment, YOUR POPULATION IS 15 TIMES THE SIZE OF CANADA. We don't NEED 2000 MRI machines, it's just not neccessary. Also, if you know anything about medical technology, MRI machines are highly specialized, and really don't need to be used in anything but very specific circumstances.

Your article also likes to point out the problems here in Newfoundland, which don't have anything to do with the socialized health care system. Most of the medical technology in Newfoundland is centred here in St.John's because of the high population density. Newfoundland has a widely spread out population due to the way it was settled, and it's hard to provide medical services to small outport communities. There is little incentive for a doctor to relocate to a rural setting in this province. The situation in Newfoundland does not extrapolate to the rest of the country.

There are long waiting lists in this country for many procedures, such as transplant surgery and heart surgery. However, this article makes it seem as though desperately ill people are being left to wither and die. People who need urgent medical care are given that care. If a doctor decides that the patient doesn't immediately need the surgery (and they would be fairly qualified to make that decision), then the patient goes on a waiting list. In this situation, there is a danger of a critical medical emergency rising, but at least everyone has a chance at having the surgery regardless of financial status.

The figure of 30,000 dollars for a general practitioner is LUDICROUS. This must be some special case, because I myself work in a human resources office at a hospital, and I can tell you that medical students make more money than that. Doctors in the US make more, but doctors here are still VERY well off.

In addition to all of this, there isnt a single source in that paper that's less than a decade old. Here's something a TAD bit newer

http://drs.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=romanow+report/v=2/SID=w/l=WS1/R=4/SS=91546099/OCS=188733/H=0/*-http://www.healthcarecommission.ca/

[Ronin]

And one more thing I'd like to point out in this OH so brilliant article (written in 1990)

"An interesting fact not often reported in the American press is that a bill passed in 1990 (Bill C-69) substantially cut and will eventually eliminate the federal contribution to health care in Canada. It is gradually reducing transfer payments from Ottawa to the provincial health plans, and will cause the death of the Canadian national health plan within the decade. Apparently, national health care is not working in Canada"

13 years later, and we still have one of the best health care systems in the world. Such a credible source.

[WithStamin]

Socialized medicine: The fix is in

By Neal Boortz

The American people want it, and the Congress is going to give it to them. Stand by for prescription-drug coverage under Medicare. The initial cost, we're told, will be about $40 billion a year. Look for $100 billion a year before you buy your next car.

Step by step ... here is how it's going to work. Print this and save it for future reference. You will be able to show it to your children or grandchildren to help explain why the government is taking 60 percent of everything they earn.



Democrats propose a grand new spending program. Senior citizens are going to be able to use someone else's money to buy their prescription drugs. Senior citizens pledge their electoral support to Democrats as thanks.

Republicans start chanting "me too!" and get on board with the free-drugs-for-old-folks plan, hoping that at least some of the wrinkled class will vote for them.

Senior citizens spend an average of $650 a year on prescription drugs right now. As soon as the drug benefit is added to Medicare, the pharmaceutical companies will start marketing many more drugs to old folks. Every night, you'll see some wrinkled citizens romping on television while the announcer says; "Ask your doctor about Kurital."

Seniors will rush off to their Medicare doctors and say "Tell me about Kurital." They'll insist on a prescription for Kurital, and any other drug they happen to see advertised, and many doctors will be all too willing to go along.

The average yearly spending by seniors on prescription drugs will skyrocket from $650 a year to thousands of dollars a year.

In short order, the projections for spending on the new prescription-drug benefit will have been left in the dust. What was sold to us as a $40 billion a year program will be costing well over $100 billion a year ... and going nowhere but up. Politicians and bureaucrats will start expressing their "concerns" and a fix will be demanded.

The "fix" to rising spending on drugs for wrinkled class will be to put limits on what Medicare will pay for certain prescription drugs, just as Medicare has already put limits on what will be paid for certain medical services.

Pharmaceutical companies will find that they aren't making any money on selling these drugs to seniors because of the Medicare price controls. In fact, they may find that they are actually losing money. To compensate for these lost profits the pharmaceutical companies will simply increase prices for these and other drugs to their non-Medicare patients.

As the prices of prescription drugs for non-Medicare Americans go up, so will the price of health-insurance coverage. Insurance companies aren't going to suffer these increased costs without passing them off to the insured. Basically this is the same thing that has happened in many other areas of health care. Medicare institutes price controls, health-care providers make up the difference by charging other patients more, health-insurance companies raise premiums ... and so on.

As prescription prices and health-insurance premiums increase for non-Medicare Americans, so will the demand for politicians to step in and do something. Politicians, always hungry for both votes and power, will be all-too-happy to oblige.

Politicians will start demagoguing drug companies. They will be called "greedy" and will be accused of "profiteering" and "exploiting" the frail health of our precious senior citizens.

After a short period of scare-mongering, the politicians will vote to institute price controls on the pharmaceutical companies. Politicians will tell us that they are doing this to reign in these greedy corporate monsters who are becoming obscenely rich on the backs of sick Americans.

With price controls the earnings figures for pharmaceutical companies will go into the toilet.

As earnings go down, pharmaceutical companies will have less and less to spend on research and development for new drugs. Research into ways to treat disease will slow down and, eventually, will become the province of government.

Government will be the eventual beneficiary of this mess as the masses clamor for more and more government solutions to these problems that are perceived to be the fault of the private sector.

So, did that scenario upset you? Now I will tell you to forget you read it. Set it aside, for there's nothing you can do. The political vote-buying machinery is in motion. The fix is in. This massively expensive benefit program is a done deal. It's a precursor to the political inevitability of socialized medicine. Stay healthy.

[Ronin]

Wow, the guy wrote an entire article based on opinion and conjecture, with little fact to back it up.

And he can see into the future no less!

[WithStamin]

Free prescription drugs would either backrupt the government or stall the economy (through sky-high taxes).

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Should healthcare be the government's job?

nope............

[Ronin]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Free prescription drugs would either backrupt the government or stall the economy (through sky-high taxes).

The last time I checked, my government had a couple of dollar bills still lying about.

And you can't say that with certainty. You cannot predict the future, you can only make an educated guess.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
nope............

what about people who can't afford it?

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by bossydacow
what about people who can't afford it?

.....people should be dependent on themselves not a government..............

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
.....people should be dependent on themselves not a government..............

even kids?

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by bossydacow
even kids?

.........do these children not have parents.......

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
.........do these children not have parents.......

doesn't matter. Children shouldn't be punished for their parents financial problems.

[Ronin]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
.....people should be dependent on themselves not a government..............

But even people who have decent jobs often can't afford their prescription drugs. Americans pay some of the highest drug prices in the world (which is odd, because you make most of them).

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by Ronin
But even people who have decent jobs often can't afford their prescription drugs. Americans pay some of the highest drug prices in the world (which is odd, because you make most of them).

lots of companies offer it as a side item.....some percentage of your pay check is taken out to help cover the cost (60$ to 100$ a month at my work).....or it can be bought independently, yes it will take sacrifices to afford.....but its up to you if you wnat it.........

second, it cost billions to produce market and profit from the research it takes to develope drugs.......why do you think there in that bussiness?

[Ronin]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
second, it cost billions to produce market and profit from the research it takes to develope drugs.......why do you think there in that bussiness?

I know why drugs cost alot of money, but Americans pay higher prices than people in other countries, who are purchasing the same drugs.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by bossydacow
doesn't matter. Children shouldn't be punished for their parents financial problems.


what will stop these people from having more and more children, and being more and more dependent on the government , if every problem they have we take care of?

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by Ronin
I know why drugs cost alot of money, but Americans pay higher prices than people in other countries, who are purchasing the same drugs.

you in canada also wait alot long for surgery then we do down here..............

also, what are these people's taxes like......compared to ours.....

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
what will stop these people from having more and more children, and being more and more dependent on the government , if every problem they have we take care of?

how can you say that and be pro-life? You fight for the welfare of an unborn child, and then abandon them once they are born, because their parents should be dependent on themselves, and not the government? Isn't the whole abortion argument that the unborn shouldn't have to pay with their life because of their parents mistake? Protect the unborn, but screw 'em, they are on their own, once they are born. Makes loads of sense, huh?

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by bossydacow
how can you say that and be pro-life?

because unlike most people, i believe that a person should be respondisable for there own ACTIONS, having a baby or getting pregnant when you can't afford it is irrispondsable..........but if you fuck up, then you should care for it, not the government, not your fellow citizens........

[Ronin]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
you in canada also wait alot long for surgery then we do down here..............

also, what are these people's taxes like......compared to ours.....

Yes...I know we have longer waits for surgery, I don't see how that relates to prescription drugs.

I have no idea what their taxes are like. I'm not attacking your country because of high drug costs, I'm just saying that they're expensive, I'm sure there's a good reason.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by Ronin
Yes...I know we have longer waits for surgery, I don't see how that relates to prescription drugs.

I have no idea what their taxes are like. I'm not attacking your country because of high drug costs, I'm just saying that they're expensive, I'm sure there's a good reason.


its related because no systems perfect.......thats why......theres faults with ours and theres faults with yours..........

.......and im not defending our high drug prices........but i'd being willing to better that those that live in countries with socialized "healthcare" pay a very high price for it, even with cheap drugs.............

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
because unlike most people, i believe that a person should be respondisable for there own ACTIONS, having a baby or getting pregnant when you can't afford it is irrispondsable..........but if you fuck up, then you should care for it, not the government, not your fellow citizens........

BUT WHAT IF THEY CAN'T?! Then they can't care for their children. Especially if they can barely afford to feed themselves. If the government doesn't do something about, then they might starts selling drugs or prostitute themselves; that makes way more money than McDonald's.
People don't seem to get it that by outlawing abortion, the children born from that would become all of our responsibilities, whether we like or not. And if we refuse to do so, like by not offering health care to them, the parents may be forced to dip into the world of crime. And then these children will be paying for their parents mistakes.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
i'm looking for the word, it's on the tip of my tongue......ummmmmm......ummmmm.... .oh yeah it's called adoption, but that's to humain.

I forget who said it, but someone in here said that most people don't give their children up for adoption; especially after going through 9 months of pregnancy.

[bossydacow]

its odd that you'll make it your business to save the unborn then call it someone else's problem to raise and care for it once its born.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by bossydacow
BUT WHAT IF THEY CAN'T?! Then they can't care for their children. Especially if they can barely afford to feed themselves. If the government doesn't do something about, then they might starts selling drugs or prostitute themselves; that makes way more money than McDonald's.
People don't seem to get it that by outlawing abortion, the children born from that would become all of our responsibilities, whether we like or not. And if we refuse to do so, like by not offering health care to them, the parents may be forced to dip into the world of crime. And then these children will be paying for their parents mistakes.

first im not for outlawing abortion, yes its murder and wrong, but until the majority of americans are aginst its legaliztion, i can see outlawing.........but it should be up to the person to provide for.........

........as for children, if you cant care for something you shouldn't have it......how hard is that to understand? Why put yourself in a postion you cant handle?.........

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy


........as for children, if you cant care for something you shouldn't have it......how hard is that to understand? Why put yourself in a postion you cant handle?.........

most people who can't afford children aren't looking to have them. Its accidental.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by bossydacow
most people who can't afford children aren't looking to have them. Its accidental.

calling something an accident is an excuse.......someone obviously had to choose to have sex in the first, which everyone knows can lead to babies.........

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
no it's your job to raise it, but if you're not responsible enough to care for a child give it for adoption

It isn't easy for a woman to hold a living being in their stomach for 9 months and then give it up. I saw a True Life documentary on adoption and the woman giving her child up was sobbing as she signed the papers, and then a month later was trying to get her child back. They love the child too much, which blinds their judgement.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
calling something an accident is an excuse.......someone obviously had to choose to have sex in the first, which everyone knows can lead to babies.........

well, not everybody can be as self-controlled as you are. Its life.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by bossydacow
well, not everybody can be as self-controlled as you are. Its life.

and not everyone can be as willing to solve everyone else's problems as your self.........its life.....

[BustaNutz]

Holy shit STOP FUCKING ARGUING ABOUT ABORTION. IT GOES NO WHERE, IT'S DEAD LETS AGREE TO DISAGREE.

What I find amusing is how cynical some of the conservatives can be. Socialized medicine doesn't encourage people to have more kids (the church does), or be lazier, it makes life easier. The problem is that, despite what you say, you're cheap. You don't give a shit about the poor, about the underprivelaged or about the homeless. And whats worse is you justify this by saying "it's there fault". Fuck that. That is true sometimes, but not always. The reason we have a government is to protect the rights of the people. Protect them, healthcare protects our god-given (not to mention constitutional) right to life, therefore asking the government to help is not out of the question. Period.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
i'm gonna drop it though cause abortion arguments go nowhere.

sounds good.

[The Nephilm]

I'm not sure if anyone said this, I don't have the time to read the whole thread as I'm in a hurry, but how about instead of bush spending $90 billion to combat "terrorism" we use a certain portion of that money for socialized welfare... notice I say a portion because the amount of money needed for such a system wouldn't be anywhere near the amount Bush uses to play cowboys and indians on an international level.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by cal1082
i agree asking the gov. to help is not out of the question, and also that healthcare is needed. I just think the gov. should "help", not support person through the rest of their life.

How is socialized medicine supporting someone the rest of their life?

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
The problem is that, despite what you say, you're cheap. You don't give a shit about the poor, about the underprivelaged or about the homeless. And whats worse is you justify this by saying "it's there fault". Fuck that. That is true sometimes, but not always. The reason we have a government is to protect the rights of the people. Protect them, healthcare protects our god-given (not to mention constitutional) right to life, therefore asking the government to help is not out of the question. Period.

Period? are you insane.......and you statements nuts.......its not that i dont care, but that the care shouldn't be forced apon me......its not my fault for the decisions others make, and nor should i have to pay for them............and its not being cheap........its that i work for myself not others, if i care to donate my money to help out (which i do) thats fine, but it shouldn't be forced.........see this, like most issues, come down to a feeling of personal respondsiblity, i think a person should be respondible for themselves, while you think a government should be respondsible for the person..........

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by cal1082
yeah i didnt explain myself good, healthcare i dont have a problem with. It might not be a perfect system, but it might not be able to be a perfect system. The supporting people i mean other things such as welfare.

Ahhhh ok, I know what you mean.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
Period? are you insane.......and you statements nuts.......its not that i dont care, but that the care shouldn't be forced apon me......its not my fault for the decisions others make, and nor should i have to pay for them............and its not being cheap........its that i work for myself not others, if i care to donate my money to help out (which i do) thats fine, but it shouldn't be forced.........see this, like most issues, come down to a feeling of personal respondsiblity, i think a person should be respondible for themselves, while you think a government should be respondsible for the person..........

Ok let me simplify this. You live in America, you have to pay taxes (unless you're rich, then it's ok to get an attorney and find a loophole to avoid them) no if's and's or but's about it. The governemnt uses your money to implement soical medicine and supply healthcare to the people. Now the man who cant afford healthcare can get it. I see this and it seems like a good idea. And if it doesn't seem like a good idea think of it this way. Right not your tax dollars are going towards war crimes, compared to that, using tax dollars for helathcare looks quite charitable.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
Ok let me simplify this. You live in America, you have to pay taxes (unless you're rich, then it's ok to get an attorney and find a loophole to avoid them) no if's and's or but's about it. The governemnt uses your money to implement soical medicine and supply healthcare to the people. Now the man who cant afford healthcare can get it. I see this and it seems like a good idea. And if it doesn't seem like a good idea think of it this way. Right not your tax dollars are going towards war crimes, compared to that, using tax dollars for helathcare looks quite charitable.

i'm sorry, and i know you probably feel the same way about me, but its really hard to take you seriously with statements like that..........

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
i'm sorry, and i know you probably feel the same way about me, but its really hard to take you seriously with statements like that..........

Yeah I apologize it's 2am, and I'm pissed off from earlier so I'm not in a great state to debate. I'm going to get some sleep. Sorry about that, I'll be glad to discuss with you tomorrow.

[The Nephilm]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
Period? are you insane.......and you statements nuts.......its not that i dont care, but that the care shouldn't be forced apon me......its not my fault for the decisions others make, and nor should i have to pay for them............and its not being cheap........its that i work for myself not others, if i care to donate my money to help out (which i do) thats fine, but it shouldn't be forced.........see this, like most issues, come down to a feeling of personal respondsiblity, i think a person should be respondible for themselves, while you think a government should be respondsible for the person..........

so people should fend for themselves.... so then should the US stop giving aid to Isreal to terrorize palestine, or aids money to africa, or kickbacks to business, or repair contracts to campaign contributors., or even have a military?

republican ideology is hypocritical at best.

oh, by the way. the family guy complete DVD is the single greatest thing I have ever owned. we shall have to post our favortie quotes one of these days...
"chris come out from behind the couch"
"I can't mom"
"Ok, then finish up and then come out"

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
so people should fend for themselves.... so then should the US stop giving aid to Isreal to terrorize palestine, or aids money to africa, or kickbacks to business, or repair contracts to campaign contributors., or even have a military?

republican ideology is hypocritical at best.



everything is hypocritical in the eyes of your opponent...to me you and all your leftest buddies are very hypocritical..............


.......as for the rest, much like the ideas of social health care, are opinion, every one has there own ideas on what a government should and shouldn't do............although i find it really hard to believe that you actually support the terrorist in palestine.....but who knows..........

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Charlito Cafe
Yes. I think it's the government's duty to take care of the populace to a certain extent. Government healthcare is there for people who can't afford the private stuff. Similar to government appointed attornies(sp?).
Wait wait wait wait. You think its the government's job to take care of the country healthwise and shell out a bunch of money towards people (chances are most of the money will be spent on Vicodin and Viagra), however you think that the goverment should just freely legalize weed and other drugs, because its our body and we are free to do what we please to it, the government has no right to tell us? wow. sounds a little hypocritical to me. And this socialized health care would just screw doctors over. Think about it. They would barely make a profit, and all of that time in college would be a waste. I read somewhere that the average doctor spends 9-10 years in school after high school. Thats expensive, and medical school is really expensive. No body would want to be a doctor anymore, because its super expensive to become a doctor, and you make a government wage. Then you would have no doctors and the world would go to hell.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Wait wait wait wait. You think its the government's job to take care of the country healthwise and shell out a bunch of money towards people (chances are most of the money will be spent on Vicodin and Viagra), however you think that the goverment should just freely legalize weed and other drugs, because its our body and we are free to do what we please to it, the government has no right to tell us? wow. sounds a little hypocritical to me. And this socialized health care would just screw doctors over. Think about it. They would barely make a profit, and all of that time in college would be a waste. I read somewhere that the average doctor spends 9-10 years in school after high school. Thats expensive, and medical school is really expensive. No body would want to be a doctor anymore, because its super expensive to become a doctor, and you make a government wage. Then you would have no doctors and the world would go to hell.

That was nice but now I ask you to consider your argument more throughly. Obviously if we had socialized medicine Viagra would not be covered, nor would many other vanity drugs (all these anti-social anxiety disorder pills, etc.). So that's really not even valid. Next up, whats worse for your body? Marijuana or Tobacco? What kills more people yearly? Tobacco does, so legalizing weed wouldn't really do much bad, in fact we would save money on the health care system if we banned tobacco and legalized marijuana. And last, not all doctors become doctors to make money, many do it because they want to be doctors. I know that sounds strange to a conservative republican, the idea that someone could want to be a doctor to help people and not to make money, but it is the case. In fact Colin (Ronin) lives in Canada (where they have socialized medicine) and is going to medical school to become a doctor. And I have news for you, the world is going to hell with or without doctors.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
That was nice but now I ask you to consider your argument more throughly. Obviously if we had socialized medicine Viagra would not be covered, nor would many other vanity drugs (all these anti-social anxiety disorder pills, etc.). So that's really not even valid. Next up, whats worse for your body? Marijuana or Tobacco? What kills more people yearly? Tobacco does, so legalizing weed wouldn't really do much bad, in fact we would save money on the health care system if we banned tobacco and legalized marijuana. And last, not all doctors become doctors to make money, many do it because they want to be doctors. I know that sounds strange to a conservative republican, the idea that someone could want to be a doctor to help people and not to make money, but it is the case. In fact Colin (Ronin) lives in Canada (where they have socialized medicine) and is going to medical school to become a doctor. And I have news for you, the world is going to hell with or without doctors.
The Viagra was a joke, but old people still travel to Canada to get it for some reason.... and I really have no opinion on marijuana, i was just pointing out the hypocricy in that kids statement when he said "its the government's job to keep us healthy", that is all. and i know that a lot of doctors do their job because they love to help people, but that doesnt drive down the cost of medical school. Its still fuckin expensive....meaning all doctors would have tremendous debt over their heads and a fraction of the pay check.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
The Viagra was a joke, but old people still travel to Canada to get it for some reason.... and I really have no opinion on marijuana, i was just pointing out the hypocricy in that kids statement when he said "its the government's job to keep us healthy", that is all. and i know that a lot of doctors do their job because they love to help people, but that doesnt drive down the cost of medical school. Its still fuckin expensive....meaning all doctors would have tremendous debt over their heads and a fraction of the pay check.

The reason the elderly go to Canada to buy viagra is because it'sw cheaper there. We pay exorbitant (sp?) amounts for our drugs here.

And I think the amount of money it costs to go to college is almost a crime, there are more kids than ever paying to attend college, so why are the prices continuing to go up?

And while I'm on the topic let me shre this with you. Perhaps your state has a government financed scholarship program. The type where if you make a 3.0 gpa then 50-75% of your college tuition is paid for and a 3.5 will get you 100%. Well in Florida we have this, rather had this. I have a 3.61, so I could have my entire tuition paid for at a state school or half of it paid for at Miami (which costs more). However, because Jeb Bush is hell bent on giving tax cuts and he's trying to finance this bill to reduce class sizes, he's cutting funding for this program. So as of now my college money is in serious jeopardy. Because he's not going to try to generate more money from... maybe... oh say... some taxes, he's just going to cut funding for bright futures scholarships. Couple that with the rising price of tuition at FSU, UF and UCF and this equals trouble. I guess the other alternative is to join the military and fight an unneccesary war for Jeb's brother (that was sarcasm, I don't want a a war debate).

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
The reason the elderly go to Canada to buy viagra is because it'sw cheaper there. We pay exorbitant (sp?) amounts for our drugs here.

And I think the amount of money it costs to go to college is almost a crime, there are more kids than ever paying to attend college, so why are the prices continuing to go up?

And while I'm on the topic let me shre this with you. Perhaps your state has a government financed scholarship program. The type where if you make a 3.0 gpa then 50-75% of your college tuition is paid for and a 3.5 will get you 100%. Well in Florida we have this, rather had this. I have a 3.61, so I could have my entire tuition paid for at a state school or half of it paid for at Miami (which costs more). However, because Jeb Bush is hell bent on giving tax cuts and he's trying to finance this bill to reduce class sizes, he's cutting funding for this program. So as of now my college money is in serious jeopardy. Because he's not going to try to generate more money from... maybe... oh say... some taxes, he's just going to cut funding for bright futures scholarships. Couple that with the rising price of tuition at FSU, UF and UCF and this equals trouble. I guess the other alternative is to join the military and fight an unneccesary war for Jeb's brother (that was sarcasm, I don't want a a war debate).
I wish my state did, 3.8, 100% free to U of O baby, I am going to a state college anyway, might as well have a huge chunk of free money. But no I have to live in a poor hippie state with the highest unemployment rate in the country, a communist governer and the worst economy....

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
I wish my state did, 3.8, 100% free to U of O baby, I am going to a state college anyway, might as well have a huge chunk of free money. But no I have to live in a poor hippie state with the highest unemployment rate in the country, a communist governer and the worst economy....


the U of O costs shit to go to.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
the U of O costs shit to go to.
its fuckin expensive, its no yale, but its expensive for a state school

[The Nephilm]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
I wish my state did, 3.8, 100% free to U of O baby, I am going to a state college anyway, might as well have a huge chunk of free money. But no I have to live in a poor hippie state with the highest unemployment rate in the country, a communist governer and the worst economy....

In state tuition is what like $1500 a year??

I got accepted to half the Ivy Leagues, but I couldn't afford em because of the tuitions. Don't even try to bitch about the tuition of an in state college...

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
its fuckin expensive, its no yale, but its expensive for a state school

isn't it somewhere around 6000 to 8000 $$? pretty cheap to me. I wish I wanted to go to State school. It be easier on my parents.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
isn't it somewhere around 6000 to 8000 $$? pretty cheap to me. I wish I wanted to go to State school. It be easier on my parents.
no i think its higher than that, but i dont know the exact numbers, i think you might be thinking of oregon state, thats a cheap school. u of o is more expensive

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
no i think its higher than that, but i dont know the exact numbers, i think you might be thinking of oregon state, thats a cheap school. u of o is more expensive

no, I just checked. Its like 6000 something. though thats this year, so it will go up, but still.. thats like half of what it costs for my parents to send me to high school for a year. Now, that think about it, thats kinda fucked up...

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
no, I just checked. Its like 6000 something. though thats this year, so it will go up, but still.. thats like half of what it costs for my parents to send me to high school for a year. Now, that think about it, thats kinda fucked up...
the U of OREGON, not oklahoma, are you sure?

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
the U of OREGON, not oklahoma, are you sure?

I think so. how many u of oregon websites are there?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
I think so. how many u of oregon websites are there? ok, cool. well then i need to bitch slap my school councelor, she told me it was a lot more expensive than that, got me all worried...

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
ok, cool. well then i need to bitch slap my school councelor, she told me it was a lot more expensive than that, got me all worried...

well how much did she say it was? I can't imagine even the most expensive state schools being too expensive.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
well how much did she say it was? I can't imagine even the most expensive state schools being too expensive.
17 grand

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
17 grand
yeah, your college advisor could use a good slap. thats way off.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
yeah, your college advisor could use a good slap. thats way off.
yeah

[Charlito Cafe]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Wait wait wait wait. You think its the government's job to take care of the country healthwise and shell out a bunch of money towards people (chances are most of the money will be spent on Vicodin and Viagra), however you think that the goverment should just freely legalize weed and other drugs, because its our body and we are free to do what we please to it, the government has no right to tell us? wow. sounds a little hypocritical to me. And this socialized health care would just screw doctors over. Think about it. They would barely make a profit, and all of that time in college would be a waste. I read somewhere that the average doctor spends 9-10 years in school after high school. Thats expensive, and medical school is really expensive. No body would want to be a doctor anymore, because its super expensive to become a doctor, and you make a government wage. Then you would have no doctors and the world would go to hell.

Ummmmm...when the fuck did I say I wanted to legalize weed? You're stereotyping again. It's your body to the extent that you are harming it. Laws against weed are there to protect people, although I do agree that weed is a hell of a lot safer than tobacco. For the most part, mind-altering substances(that includes alchohol) are detrimental to your health, and it's in the best interest of the citizenry to outlaw them.

And about the doctors, not everybody is a greedy fucking capitalist pig who's out to garner the most profit possible. Some people go to med schol because they feel a genuine desire to help people, just like I want to go to law school to hoepefully become a public defender because I feel a genuine desire to help the destitute, not because I want a fuckload of cash. It's not all about money. A government salary is enough to live on, and if you're doing somehthing you like, who gives a shit if you're making enough to live on or becoming insanely wealthy?

[Ronin]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
And this socialized health care would just screw doctors over. Think about it. They would barely make a profit, and all of that time in college would be a waste. I read somewhere that the average doctor spends 9-10 years in school after high school. Thats expensive, and medical school is really expensive. No body would want to be a doctor anymore, because its super expensive to become a doctor, and you make a government wage. Then you would have no doctors and the world would go to hell.

You spend at least 10 years in school after high school, 13 or more if you want to specialize.

Barely make a profit? Doctors here make less than their counterparts in the US, but the lowest paid doctor (A general practitioner paid by salary) is still making 100,000 a year. Specialists can make upwards of 300,000 a year. Doctors in the US get paid more, but doctors in Canada are still driving Mercedes'.

Medical school in Canada is less expensive than it is in the US, and there are always incentives that can help you pay. You were the guy who was gung-ho about paying for college through the military, so why don't you pay for med school the same way? The benefits are insane, they pay your tuition and incidental costs, give you a salary while you're in school, and then give you a quarter of a million dollar signing bonus when you get out, in addition to your salary....and that's in Canada, so it's probably even more in the US. And if you don't want to go the military route, you can always sign a contract with your province/state or local hospital. "I'll give you 4 years of service after I graduate, you give me $100,000 signing bonus".

If you get accepted into med school, you'll be just fine, and there will still be doctors.

[BustaNutz]

Back to the college money. I need the Florida Bright Futures to take a chunk out of the University of Miami's tuition. Miami costs 28k to get into, so I need all the help I can get. My GPA WOULD HAVE gotten me at least 6-10 k of money to help me out, but not if Jeb cuts the funding.

[Charlito Cafe]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
Back to the college money. I need the Florida Bright Futures to take a chunk out of the University of Miami's tuition. Miami costs 28k to get into, so I need all the help I can get. My GPA WOULD HAVE gotten me at least 6-10 k of money to help me out, but not if Jeb cuts the funding.

Yikes, nuts in a vice. Whatever happened to the "children are the future" philosophy? Now it seems like the old guys(mainly Repupublicans, not surprisingly) want to hoard their money to themselves and stagnate society. I always thought it was the job of the older generation to foster the future one into finding their own identity, but the generations before us are too greedy.

[Charlito Cafe]

Do you go to A & M?

[NOFXdesendents5]

No. I don't want to pay for crack addicts and illegal immigrants.

[Charlito Cafe]

Originally posted by cal1082
yeah

Cool, cool. We usually have some Aggies, but I think the majority of our 2003 class went to UT this year. At least everyone I talked to did.