Would You Go?

[thejetstolehome]

i know we've had a few threads about the draft recently but i figured this could spark some interesting debate.

poll coming.

[Sleepaway]

Depends how shitty was day job was.

[tambam]

Hell no.

[catscradle]

it depends on the reason for instituting the draft and the grounds for action needed.

i.e. if they drafted me to go to iraq i wouldn't go. But if something happened between say us and china and i felt the nations security was in danger then i wouldn't even think twice about going.

[thatwasamoment]

if i was guranteed i wouldnt go to battle
(i got flat feet)

[yrbanys]

I have only a few rules to my code of honor, and one of them is never get involved in a war I personally did not start. As far as I know, I am not directly responsible for any current US involvement in foreign affairs. Therefore, fuck no.

Then again, if anyone effed with my people (the Jews) on an even minorly genocidal level, I would get involved in a heartbeat. I'm tribalistically selfish that way.

[Love As Arson]

No. For one, I have more in common with those being killed by the US than I do with those that started the war, in all likelihood, for profit and exploitation.

[cantnokdahustle]

Not this conflict. If it were WWIIish, almost without hesitation (I know that is not a possibility, nothing could ever escalate and e prolonged in this day and age).

A little more specific question and I would be able to answer.

[TheByrus]

i would because i like a good challenge.

[Love As Arson]

Not this conflict. If it were WWIIish, almost without hesitation (I know that is not a possibility, nothing could ever escalate and e prolonged in this day and age).

A little more specific question and I would be able to answer.
I would be opposed to serving in World War 2 as well. When one looks at the circumstances of the war, it was not noble, rather it was a clash of imperial powers, one of which was interfering with the ability of the other to seek out profit.

[cantnokdahustle]

I would be opposed to serving in World War 2 as well. When one looks at the circumstances of the war, it was not noble, rather it was a clash of imperial powers, one of which was interfering with the ability of the other to seek out profit.


I didn't say it was noble, and if it were WWI there is no way in hell I'd go, that shit was by far more exemplary of your claim than is WWII, though I do not disagree with your claim, merely I don't see anyway of getting around it.

There is something about the war that is so mystic and utlimatly captivating, that it seems almost beautiful. I recognize, that I have zero argument for this, and that most of it is due to overly-fantasized images of the war that are repeatedly drilled into those who are probably looking for it.

[fedhed7]

I would go if I had a good reason to.

Also, you get a lot of pussy + free drinks when you get back.

[Love As Arson]

I didn't say it was noble, and if it were WWI there is no way in hell I'd go, that shit was by far more exemplary of your claim than is WWII, though I do not disagree with your claim, merely I don't see anyway of getting around it.
Revolt?

[cantnokdahustle]

Revolt?

How so?

[make_this_hurt]

http://www.hln-store.com/catalog/canada.gif


That's my answer.

[dw1003]

fuck no.

don't get me wrong... I love this country and everything but I'm not gonna go die for anyone.

[make_this_hurt]

http://www.hln-store.com/catalog/canada.gif


That's my answer.
In case you don't get what I mean:

I'd move to Canada and work for Adobe.

[patpratt]

you cant just...not go though. right?

[unwritten]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/mikefordvancouver/dancer083.gif

[yrbanys]

you cant just...not go though. right?

You can go to jail.

[aminorthreat55]

Based on the history of wars fought by this country, nope. I'd be taking my dual-citizenship ass back to Lysekil, Sweden.

[halifaxrocks]

Yeah, I'd go.

[TheOtherAndrew]

In case you don't get what I mean:

I'd move to Canada and work for Adobe.
If I were drafted by the Canadian government, I'd go. But then again I know that if Canada had to bring back the draft, it would be for a good fucking reason.

[TranscendTrends]

If I were drafted by the Canadian government, I'd go. But then again I know that if Canada had to bring back the draft, it would be for a good fucking reason.

hahahahaha.... so true. canada is such a great country. if another draft was started in the US, i'd definitely be moving north.

[Lueda Alia]

If I were drafted by the Canadian government, I'd go. But then again I know that if Canada had to bring back the draft, it would be for a good fucking reason.
Exactly.

I'd never fight in a war. If I had to defend Canada/Albania, I would try to in different ways. I doubt I'd ever be able to carry arms; they're probably heavier than I am. :-D Plus, I could never kill another human being like that.

[BoiledFrogs.]

shoot me before i go, rather die in a stinkin jail...unless bush gets his ass on a tank and gets his head blown off

[thejetstolehome]

No government would ever bring back the draft for the war on terror. They wouldn't stand a chance of winning any election.

yea, exactly. that's why i think no draft will ever come back.

[Sleepaway]

A future war with China is a frightful prospect.

[Sleepaway]

Only due to the size of their army. If we were at war with China, I'd enlist.

[Sleepaway]

Well I wouldn't plan on dying. And if i did, then i'd be dying for my countries defence.

[YourMusicSucks]

it depends on the reason for instituting the draft and the grounds for action needed.

i.e. if they drafted me to go to iraq i wouldn't go. But if something happened between say us and china and i felt the nations security was in danger then i wouldn't even think twice about going.

same.

[Daveyhavok832]

does color blindness get you out of battle?

[thejetstolehome]

Good point my eye sight sucks, although i wear contacts.

that's why i could never fly. they'd have to draft me into the army, navy, or marines.

but i was thinking about this the other night. given the probable circumstances, i wouldn't want to go no matter what. i see it this way: i could refuse to go and go to jail--but i don't want to lose voting rights. i could go to Canada but then i probably wouldn't be able to come back home, which i'd obviously want to. and i could go fight, but what's the point of fighting for something in which i don't believe? it would be the hardest decision of my life.

[falloutboy.]

you guys are all ungrateful americans. its disgusting. who wouldnt fight for the country they reside in and for the simple freedoms we all have enjoyed our entire lives?

[thejetstolehome]

you guys are all ungrateful americans. its disgusting. who wouldnt fight for the country they reside in and for the simple freedoms we all have enjoyed our entire lives?

so you would just blindy fight for something in which you might not necessarily believe? that in and of itself is being un-American.

[thejetstolehome]

oh and i don't think any war we fight in from now on will actually be one to protect our rights and freedoms. such a war hasn't happened since World War Two.

[falloutboy.]

oh and i don't think any war we fight in from now on will actually be one to protect our rights and freedoms. such a war hasn't happened since World War Two.
i agree that fighting the current war we are in has nothing to do with protecting our rights, but in general, fighting for your country is the biggest pride you should have as an american.. werent you in the poll about liking just one team? (i dont remember) but their was a discussion if you can like just one team, some true believers would 'die for their team' i think the passion should be more relevant in their country

[thejetstolehome]

i agree that fighting the current war we are in has nothing to do with protecting our rights, but in general, fighting for your country is the biggest pride you should have as an american.. werent you in the poll about liking just one team? (i dont remember) but their was a discussion if you can like just one team, some true believers would 'die for their team' i think the passion should be more relevant in their country

it's called hyperbole; and i would feel no honor in fighting for a cause in which i didn't belive.

[notoaststereo]

probably not.

[falloutboy.]

it's called hyperbole; and i would feel no honor in fighting for a cause in which i didn't belive.
that is a fair argument. but i would hope you wouldnt be a coward if you were drafted and flee to canada, regardless of your beliefs.

[thejetstolehome]

that is a fair argument. but i would hope you wouldnt be a coward if you were drafted and flee to canada, regardless of your beliefs.

it's not necessarily cowardly. being courageous isn't knowing just when to fight but when not to fight.

[BoiledFrogs.]

thinking about i really don't think its happening any time soon
with republicans out of the house would the democrats then draft heh heh that's a funny one

[Jason Tate]

thinking about i really don't think its happening any time soon
with republicans out of the house would the democrats then draft heh heh that's a funny one
The latest draft related bill was introduced by Democrats.

[Jason Tate]

it's not necessarily cowardly. being courageous isn't knowing just when to fight but when not to fight.
Sun Tzu ftw.

[thejetstolehome]

Sun Tzu ftw.

really? i was thinking Plato. :shrug:

[BoiledFrogs.]

The latest draft related bill was introduced by Democrats.
nice to know i never knew that!

[Jason Tate]

really? i was thinking Plato. :shrug:
Guess great minds all think alike?

[thejetstolehome]

Guess great minds all think alike?

i guess so, haha. we just did "The Republic" in my Political Theory class and the knowing when to and not to fight thing was part of his qualifications for The Guardians of his "Just City."

[Joe DeAndrea]

The world will be over by the time I'm old enough to be drafted anyway, so I don't have anything to worry about.

[Salomonbz90]

I'd go tomorrow if they asked me.
If it wasn't for personal reasons preventing me from joining..I would have gone a while ago.

[Salomonbz90]

The world will be over by the time I'm old enough to be drafted anyway, so I don't have anything to worry about.
Way to be positive about this...

[Daveyhavok832]

you guys are all ungrateful americans. its disgusting. who wouldnt fight for the country they reside in and for the simple freedoms we all have enjoyed our entire lives?

honestly dude.... you don't know what freedoms we have and don't have until you live somewhere else... whats on paper is not necessarily true in life. ideals like yours are what lead to facism...

[captainhampton]

honestly dude.... you don't know what freedoms we have and don't have until you live somewhere else... whats on paper is not necessarily true in life. ideals like yours are what lead to facism...

yep someone who is willing to fight for his country. what a fascist.

[thejetstolehome]

yep someone who is willing to fight for his country. what a fascist.

he's not saying fighting for the country is fascist--he's saying fighting for the country no matter what and sacraficing your personal beliefs for it is fascist.

[captainhampton]

he's not saying fighting for the country is fascist--he's saying fighting for the country no matter what and sacraficing your personal beliefs for it is fascist.

"you guys are all ungrateful americans. its disgusting. who wouldnt fight for the country they reside in and for the simple freedoms we all have enjoyed our entire lives?"

what is fascist about that?

[thejetstolehome]

"you guys are all ungrateful americans. its disgusting. who wouldnt fight for the country they reside in and for the simple freedoms we all have enjoyed our entire lives?"

what is fascist about that?

did i agree with him? but if i were going to make the case that it was fascist, i would say that one should never fight for his or her country just because they live there. if it goes against one's personal beliefs, why should one fight or be forced to fight?

[captainhampton]

did i agree with him? but if i were going to make the case that it was fascist, i would say that one should never fight for his or her country just because they live there. if it goes against one's personal beliefs, why should one fight or be forced to fight?

i have no problem with your argument, I just think people throw the word fascist out there too much.

[thejetstolehome]

i have no problem with your argument, I just think people throw the word fascist out there too much.

i can see that.

[johnx]

I wouldn't make it. I would fail the physical I bet.

[Love As Arson]

you guys are all ungrateful americans. its disgusting. who wouldnt fight for the country they reside in and for the simple freedoms we all have enjoyed our entire lives?

Wars throughout history have been waged for conquest and plunder. In the Middle Ages when the feudal lords who inhabited the castles whose towers may still be seen along the Rhine concluded to enlarge their domains, to increase their power, their prestige and their wealth they declared war upon one another. But they themselves did not go to war any more than the modern feudal lords, the barons of Wall Street go to war.

The feudal barons of the Middle Ages, the economic predecessors of the capitalists of our day, declared all wars. And their miserable serfs fought all the battles. The poor, ignorant serfs had been taught to revere their masters; to believe that when their masters declared war upon one another, it was their patriotic duty to fall upon one another and to cut one another's throats for the profit and glory of the lords and barons who held them in contempt. And that is war in a nutshell. The master class has always declared the wars; the subject class has always fought the battles. The master class has had all to gain and nothing to lose, while the subject class has had nothing to gain and all to lose--especially their lives.

They have always taught and trained you to believe it to be your patriotic duty to go to war and to have yourselves slaughtered at their command. But in all the history of the world you, the people, have never had a voice in declaring war, and strange as it certainly appears, no war by any nation in any age has ever been declared by the people.

And here let me emphasize the fact--and it cannot be repeated too often--that the working class who fight all the battles, the working class who make the supreme sacrifices, the working class who freely shed their blood and furnish the corpses, have never yet had a voice in either declaring war or making peace. It is the ruling class that invariably does both. They alone declare war and they alone make peace. Yours not to reason why; Yours but to do and die. That is their motto and we object on the part of the awakening workers of this nation. If war is right let it be declared by the people. You who have your lives to lose, you certainly above all others have the right to decide the momentous issue of war or peace....

You need at this time especially to know that you are fit for something better than slavery and cannon fodder. You need to know that you were not created to work and produce and impoverish yourself to enrich an idle exploiter. You need to know that you have a mind to improve, a soul to develop, and a manhood to sustain....

They are continually talking about your patriotic duty. It is not their but your patriotic duty that they are concerned about. There is a decided difference. Their patriotic duty never takes them to the firing line or chucks them into the trenches. And now among other things they are urging you to "cultivate" war gardens, while at the same time a government war report just issued shows that practically 52 percent of the arable, tillable soil is held out of use by the landlords, speculators and profiteers. They themselves do not cultivate the soil. Nor do they allow others to cultivate it. They keep it idle to enrich themselves, to pocket the millions of dollars of unearned increment....

And now for all of us to do our duty! The clarion call is ringing in our ears and we cannot falter without being convicted of treason to ourselves and to our great cause.

Do not worry over the charge of treason to your masters, but be concerned about the treason that involves yourselves. Be true to yourself and you cannot be a traitor to any good cause on earth.

[chronomic]

people have a choice to not go if they got drafted?

[thejetstolehome]

people have a choice to not go if they got drafted?

they could go to jail instead. see: Muhammad Ali.

[jsteil]

I would not go to war with anyone or any country unless they were invading my own back yard (basically the lower 48 states, alaska, and hawaii) and I mean Mexico or some other foriegn country rolling tanks, planes, etc onto United States Soil. Not this political bull shit of invading some country because of someones political agenda or personal crusade.

[chronomic]

they could go to jail instead. see: Muhammad Ali.

are you just in jail for the remainder of the war? or is it longer?


i would imagine there would be fines too

[jsteil]

Its 5 years, you also loose some rights as a citizen.

[Jason Tate]

Conscientious objector status is another option.

[BoiledFrogs.]

the question that always pops in my head is what the hell would i be fighing for...glory of being able to fuck up a few peoples lives
so not worth killing myself, so jail works perfectly fine

[love2hateme]

I'm joining the Navy anyways so why not but they are not going to re-enstate it anyways so

[music3chick]

no, i could never kill another human like that
i'd rather go to jail