when is one to old to drive?

[Justin_stacy]

How Old Is Too Old to Drive?







Friday, July 18, 2003

WASHINGTON — It's not easy to know when to take the car keys away from grandpa.





But as the number of older drivers rises, states are taking a closer look at ways to make sure they're not dangerous to themselves or others.

Accidents like the one in Santa Monica, Calif., this week in which an 86-year-old driver killed 10 people and injured dozens more when he drove into a crowded farmers market, are cited by those who believe older drivers should have to prove their capability.

Others point to statistics showing that older drivers are safer than teens — at least until they reach 75 — and are less likely than other drivers to drive drunk.

"It's tricky. You can't just as a matter of course say, 'Once you reach 85, you can't drive anymore'," said Susan Ferguson, senior vice president of research at the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (search), which is funded by auto insurers. "It would take driver's licenses away from people who are perfectly fine to drive."

In 2001, 16 percent of drivers were 65 and older; by 2030, one in four is expected to be in that age group.

At least 21 states have requirements for older drivers, varying from more frequent license renewals to vision tests. New Hampshire and Illinois require road tests for those 75 and older, while in Nevada drivers 70 and older who renew licenses by mail must include a medical report.

Missouri allows people to submit confidential tips that an older driver is no longer safe on the road. The state then can require the targeted person to pass a driving skills test or physical examination.

A bill in the California Legislature requiring road tests for people 75 and older was killed in 2000 after senior citizen groups protested. Among those who would have been affected was Russell Weller, the man police say was responsible for the Santa Monica crash.

Weller told police he may have hit the gas pedal instead of the brake when he plowed through the farmers market. Results found no traces of alcohol or psychoactive drugs such as antidepressants and hallucinogens in his blood.

AARP (search), the advocacy group for people 50 and older, favors better tests rather than age limits for drivers.

"We need to develop means to determine who can drive safely and who can't," said Cheryl Mattheis, AARP's director of state affairs. "People should be able to drive as long as they can drive safely and effectively."

Taking away a license can rob older people of their independence, forcing them to rely on others for trips to the grocery store or doctor's office. AARP and the auto club AAA (search) have programs to help such drivers keep their skills.

"We think whether someone continues to drive or not should be based on performance not just simply age," AAA spokesman Mantill Williams said.

Even some government officials agree.

"It's an issue of driving ability, not age," said Dr. Jeffrey Runge, head of the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (search). Key to determining if someone is fit to drive, he said, are effective screening methods for physicians.

The American Medical Association (search) is issuing guidelines this month outlining what doctors should look for in assessing driving skills.

Some states give special benefits to older drivers. For example, Tennessee drivers don't have to have photos on their licenses after they turn 60 and North Carolina doesn't make people 60 and older parallel park during the road test.

Statistics from the Insurance Institute show that older drivers generally are as safe as other age groups until they reach 75, when they tend to have more accidents.

Drivers 85 and older are about as likely to be involved in a fatal crash as those ages 16 to 19, but they're more likely to die than others in car accidents because their bodies are frailer, the institute's Ferguson said.

Wendy Stav, an assistant professor of occupational therapy at Cleveland State University, said older people are more apt to have health issues that affect driving. For example, people with heart disease or diabetes can have conditions that cause them to lose feeling in their feet.

Other conditions that can affect older drivers' performance are decreases in attention span, failing vision, inability to see well at night or in the rain, slowing of reaction time and decreased ability to do more than one thing at a time, Stav said.

She said the best way to identify impaired older drivers is to have them evaluated by doctors or through driving evaluation programs run by rehabilitation hospitals or state motor vehicle departments.

[NOFXdesendents5]

Fuck old people. They shouldn't drive if they can't walk.

[steverocks33]

they should be required to take driving tests at a certain age. my grandma is the perfect sterotypical elderly driver. it amazes me shes still alive.

[Charlito Cafe]

Originally posted by steverocks33
they should be required to take driving tests at a certain age. my grandma is the perfect sterotypical elderly driver. it amazes me shes still alive.

Yeah, once you hit like 65 or something they keep testing you until you are too incompetent to drive, at which point they revoke your liscence. Menace to society, these old farts are.

[xxSpOoKsxx]

true. old people shouldnt be able to drive. if they cant walk, then they for sure cant drive.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by Charlito Cafe
Yeah, once you hit like 65 or something they keep testing you until you are too incompetent to drive, at which point they revoke your liscence. Menace to society, these old farts are.

the only problem with that is figuring out how often to test people. Deterioration can happen very quickly. Within a year and a half my grandmother went down so much that she went from living in a house by herself, to living in an apartment by herself, to living in an assisted living apartment complex, to now living a full time home.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
the only problem with that is figuring out how often to test people. Deterioration can happen very quickly. Within a year and a half my grandmother went down so much that she went from living in a house by herself, to living in an apartment by herself, to living in an assisted living apartment complex, to now living a full time home. exactly. you could have tested that old guy who had killed 10 people the day earlier and it probably wouldnt have shown any blips on the scale. He was in a trance, because he was old, but those things are nearly impossible to track. I say, 70 years old, license revoked. Sure there may be some 72 year olds who can drive, but what about those 12 year olds who are capable of driving. It goes both ways.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
. I say, 70 years old, license revoked. .

I don't really see that ever happening. Because, really, a lot of things could happen to a person of any age that may change their ability to drive within a matter of months, or even weeks. If they start to take licences away because you maybe to old, they'd also have to start taking licences away because you are prone to seizures, have a high risk of heart attacks, or have some sort of illness that will severely alter your health in a matter of months.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
I don't really see that ever happening. Because, really, a lot of things could happen to a person of any age that may change their ability to drive within a matter of months, or even weeks. If they start to take licences away because you maybe to old, they'd also have to start taking licences away because you are prone to seizures, have a high risk of heart attacks, or have some sort of illness that will severely alter your health in a matter of months.
that wouldnt be a bad idea actually, but no that wouldnt really open the door to that. you just say 16-69 are the driving ages, its not that difficult. its the same as telling a 13 year old he cant drive, just simply age.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
that wouldnt be a bad idea actually, but no that wouldnt really open the door to that. you just say 16-69 are the driving ages, its not that difficult. its the same as telling a 13 year old he cant drive, just simply age.

but that won't happen without a HUGE fight. Thats all I'm saying. A 13 year old doesn't necessarily have the maturity that an able bodied 72 year old may have. My other grandmother is 77, and she looks damn good for her age, works out everyday, and has a part time job as a school bus moniter. She's lived through a lot more than a thirteen year old, and has the maturity to operate a vehicle that a thirteen year old wouldn't have.

Also, its somewhat insulting to elderly people, who deserve respect. Taking away their driving privelages because they have reached a certain age, not because of a health problem, is a big disrespect. Its almost like saying that they arn't "adult" enough. I don't know...I just feel really bad for old people. And for that old man who was driving that car.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
but that won't happen without a HUGE fight. Thats all I'm saying. A 13 year old doesn't necessarily have the maturity that an able bodied 72 year old may have. My other grandmother is 77, and she looks damn good for her age, works out everyday, and has a part time job as a school bus moniter. She's lived through a lot more than a thirteen year old, and has the maturity to operate a vehicle that a thirteen year old wouldn't have.

Also, its somewhat insulting to elderly people, who deserve respect. Taking away their driving privelages because they have reached a certain age, not because of a health problem, is a big disrespect. Its almost like saying that they arn't "adult" enough. I don't know...I just feel really bad for old people. And for that old man who was driving that car.
again, some 35 year old men dont have the maturity to drive a car, should we take away their license? if you leave room for questioning and shot calling people can easily take advantage of the system. if you say flat out 16-69, there is no "what ifs" and elderly people do deserve respect, as well as the 14 year old kid who graduates from college, now why cant he drive? he is obviously mature enough to get through college, hes mature enough to drive too. but if you let him have a license, every 14 year old in america will want a licesne. you have to make it a clean cut rule.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
again, some 35 year old men dont have the maturity to drive a car, should we take away their license? if you leave room for questioning and shot calling people can easily take advantage of the system. if you say flat out 16-69, there is no "what ifs" and elderly people do deserve respect, as well as the 14 year old kid who graduates from college, now why cant he drive? he is obviously mature enough to get through college, hes mature enough to drive too. but if you let him have a license, every 14 year old in america will want a licesne. you have to make it a clean cut rule.

I just don't see that happening. Elderly people raised us, watched out for us, protected us; now its our turn to respect them, and not treat them like children. I'd want my grandchildren to do the same for me. I don't want to be a capable 75 year old women, who has to depend on my kids to drive me around. If you start treating an old person like a codependent child, they'll start acting like one. I'm a firm believer in the mind/body connection. They way you feel about yourself will greatly affect your health. You make an old person feel dependent and imcompetent, they'll actually turn into that, which is a big injustice.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
I just don't see that happening. Elderly people raised us, watched out for us, protected us; now its our turn to respect them, and not treat them like children. I'd want my grandchildren to do the same for me. I don't want to be a capable 75 year old women, who has to depend on my kids to drive me around. If you start treating an old person like a codependent child, they'll start acting like one. I'm a firm believer in the mind/body connection. They way you feel about yourself will greatly affect your health. You make an old person feel dependent and imcompetent, they'll actually turn into that, which is a big injustice.
We do treat them like children, they wear diapers, they eat strained and pureed food, and they can barely walk. You dont have to depend on your kids to drive you around either, public transportation is still available to old people. And it doesnt really matter if you are still able at 75, you could spaz out at any second. I was capable for years before my 16th birthday, yet I didnt drive and still managed to get around. God forbid they have to hop on a bus. I did.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
We do treat them like children, they wear diapers, they eat strained and pureed food, and they can barely walk.

abled bodied seniors can walk fine. I don't know why i'm arguing this with you because I understand your position, I'm just reluctant to take away the privelages of someone who deserves them.

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by steverocks33
they should be required to take driving tests at a certain age. my grandma is the perfect sterotypical elderly driver. it amazes me shes still alive. Sounds good. I don't know how many times I've almost been run over by a 87 year old who can't see anything, or seen a line a mile long behind someone going 20 mph. If they can't drive well, they shouldn't be on the road.

However, there are plenty of younger people who shouldn't be on the road either. Something like bi-yearly for all people and yearly for over 65 sounds good to me.

[NOFXdesendents5]

No matter what your ability to drive is, I say, revoke your street license if your 65 or over. Who knows if you drive perfect but pass-out in your car?

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
No matter what your ability to drive is, I say, revoke your street license if your 65 or over. Who knows if you drive perfect but pass-out in your car?

anyone can pass out in their car.

[BrandNewDream]

I feel that testing should be done after a certain age, but setting age limits certainly cannot and will not happen, in my opinion...It's too much of a grey area to set a black and white standard. There will be cases where the rules would fit, and cases where they wouldn't...BrandNewRock, I certainly see where you're coming from, and agree with you on a good bit of what you said, but I feel you're making too much of a generalization when speaking about this. While a good percentage of elderly people may wear diapers and eat strained food, I'd say that an even greater percentage of them don't. The other day, I had an 89 year old neighbor of mine sit out in the blazing sun with me and cut all my grass, clean it up, and then he even helped me dig a bit (I'm digging a ditch for my father, we're building a deck in the back.). He was strong, and certainly able-bodied. On the other side, when I went to the hospital a while back, there was an older woman there who had been falling unexplainably and urinating/defacating in her underpants. Two extremes, but this is exactly why generalizations cannot be made.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
abled bodied seniors can walk fine. I don't know why i'm arguing this with you because I understand your position, I'm just reluctant to take away the privelages of someone who deserves them.
But what about a 13 year old who deserves those priveleges, just because he is special we are gonna toss him a license. No, you have to keep the rules clean cut so there is no opinionated descison making involved in the licensing process.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
anyone can pass out in their car.
who is more prone to?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by BrandNewDream
I feel that testing should be done after a certain age, but setting age limits certainly cannot and will not happen, in my opinion...It's too much of a grey area to set a black and white standard. There will be cases where the rules would fit, and cases where they wouldn't...BrandNewRock, I certainly see where you're coming from, and agree with you on a good bit of what you said, but I feel you're making too much of a generalization when speaking about this. While a good percentage of elderly people may wear diapers and eat strained food, I'd say that an even greater percentage of them don't. The other day, I had an 89 year old neighbor of mine sit out in the blazing sun with me and cut all my grass, clean it up, and then he even helped me dig a bit (I'm digging a ditch for my father, we're building a deck in the back.). He was strong, and certainly able-bodied. On the other side, when I went to the hospital a while back, there was an older woman there who had been falling unexplainably and urinating/defacating in her underpants. Two extremes, but this is exactly why generalizations cannot be made.
Again, i have seen a 14 year old genius complete college, obviously more maturity than most college students in that 14 year old. I have also seen an 35 year old jump off of a 5 story building with a bed sheet as a parachute, needless to say the "para-trooper" had to visit the ER. My point is those are also both extremes, and who is to decide the age of 16, thats a generalization. It works though. If you leave the law blurry and gray, it will be taken advantage of, and it is impossible to detect whether or not someone is going to stroke out in their car, or simply go into a trance where they drive their car three blocks and killing ten people with out noticing....its just to difficult to figure that stuff out. I mean this guy had been tested for anything wrong with him and he was healthy as an ox, he just simply was too old to drive.

[NOFXdesendents5]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Again, i have seen a 14 year old genius complete college, obviously more maturity than most college students in that 14 year old. I have also seen an 35 year old jump off of a 5 story building with a bed sheet as a parachute, needless to say the "para-trooper" had to visit the ER. My point is those are also both extremes, and who is to decide the age of 16, thats a generalization. It works though. If you leave the law blurry and gray, it will be taken advantage of, and it is impossible to detect whether or not someone is going to stroke out in their car, or simply go into a trance where they drive their car three blocks and killing ten people with out noticing....its just to difficult to figure that stuff out. I mean this guy had been tested for anything wrong with him and he was healthy as an ox, he just simply was too old to drive.

Now that my mom has come into this arguement she just informed me that the old guy (when he was 76 10 years ago), ran into a woman's patio party with his car. Then, when the police investigated his house, they found that the old fuck had been hitting his garage with his car. Wow, I think we noticed that people do not want to give up their car, even when they know they can't drive.

[Charlito Cafe]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
Now that my mom has come into this arguement she just informed me that the old guy (when he was 76 10 years ago), ran into a woman's patio party with his car. Then, when the police investigated his house, they found that the old fuck had been hitting his garage with his car. Wow, I think we noticed that people do not want to give up their car, even when they know they can't drive.

What an ass. No one realized that this old dude was deteriorating? That's sad.

[BrandNewRock05]

Who said "take all the old people and thrown them in an oven"? And it wasnt Hitler...

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
who is more prone to?

anyone, for any number of reasons.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
anyone, for any number of reasons.
dont give me that bullshit....if you were to look at statistics, from ages 10-100, the highest number of "simply passing out for no reason" would be in the 65+ range. as well as trances, heart failure, stroke and all around brain fart.