Congresswoman Giffords Shot

[Machu505]

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/08/132764367/congresswoman-shot-in-arizona

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

RIP

This is such a shitty situation. First mail bombs being sent to the Maryland governor and Janet Napolitano. Now this.

[MyWorldEntire]

Absolutely tragic. Thoughts and prayers with her family.

[Machu505]

She was 40-years-old, and married to an astronaut with two kids.

[J.C.]

Sick to my stomach.

[MyWorldEntire]

http://yfrog.com/h4j00sj

[jwicklun]

This is horrible. Arizona is getting worse and worse with this.

[saysmydoctor]

Jesus fucking Christ.

[Scrandon]

Yikes. So sad. RIP.

[Mitch]

This is horrible.

[MyWorldEntire]

Eyewitness Report:

The event was very informal: Gifford had set up a table outside the Safeway and about 20-30 people were gathered to talk to her. The gunman, who may have come from inside the Safeway, walked up and shot Gifford in the head first. According to Rayle, who is a former ER doctor, Gifford was able to move her hands after being shot.

After shooting Gifford, the gunman opened fire indiscriminately for a few seconds, firing 20-30 rounds and hitting a number of people, including a kid no older than 10 years old. Rayle hid behind a concrete pole and pretended to be dead. When the gunman apparently ran out of ammunition he attempted to flee, but a member of Gifford's staff tackled him. Rayle helped hold the gunman down while waiting for the sheriff to arrive, about 15-to-20 minutes later. The EMS came about 30 minutes later. Rayle said he was "stunned" by how long it took medical help to arrive.

The gunman was young, mid-to-late 20s, white, clean-shaven with short hair and wearing dark clothing and said nothing during the shooting or while being held down, although he struggled at first. He didn't look like a businessman, but more of a "fringe character," Rayle said. The sheriff's department arrived, arrested the gunman and cordoned off the parking lot.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

holy shit.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Eyewitness Report:

The event was very informal: Gifford had set up a table outside the Safeway and about 20-30 people were gathered to talk to her. The gunman, who may have come from inside the Safeway, walked up and shot Gifford in the head first. According to Rayle, who is a former ER doctor, Gifford was able to move her hands after being shot.

After shooting Gifford, the gunman opened fire indiscriminately for a few seconds, firing 20-30 rounds and hitting a number of people, including a kid no older than 10 years old. Rayle hid behind a concrete pole and pretended to be dead. When the gunman apparently ran out of ammunition he attempted to flee, but a member of Gifford's staff tackled him. Rayle helped hold the gunman down while waiting for the sheriff to arrive, about 15-to-20 minutes later. The EMS came about 30 minutes later. Rayle said he was "stunned" by how long it took medical help to arrive.

The gunman was young, mid-to-late 20s, white, clean-shaven with short hair and wearing dark clothing and said nothing during the shooting or while being held down, although he struggled at first. He didn't look like a businessman, but more of a "fringe character," Rayle said. The sheriff's department arrived, arrested the gunman and cordoned off the parking lot.

Is it wrong that this is what I assumed when I first read that a Democratic Congresswoman had been shot?

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

http://yfrog.com/h4j00sj

hate to jump to any conclusions but ya here it is bigger:

http://delong.typepad.com/.a/6a00e551f0800388340148c76c2ebc970c-pi

[TJ Wells]

Robert Reich, in 2007: "I wouldn't be surprised if she's the first or second female President of the United States."

So, so sad.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

6 others passed also. so crazy

[Machu505]

The county's sheriff says she's still alive, but in critical condition.

[TJ Wells]

Here she is on Colbert. I hope he'll be willing to forgo the character for a few seconds on Monday's show to speak on her death (I'm sure he will):

http://www.tucsonscene.com/?q=stephen_colbert_disses_tucson_re p_gabrielle_giffords

[MyWorldEntire]

The county's sheriff says she's still alive, but in critical condition.

Link?

[Machu505]

Link? It was on MSNBC just now.

[TJ Wells]

It was on MSNBC just now.
Yes, just came here to post this.

[MyWorldEntire]

Let's hope and pray she can pull through.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

CNN is saying they have conflicting reports that she died or still in surgery at the moment.

[J.C.]

One of the sheriffs who was on MSNBC was saying he knew for a fact she was still alive and that she was in surgery.

EDIT: Ah Matt already said it.

[joss d.]

Live about 2 miles from this, about to drive past the safeway on way home from work. Crazy. Npr says she's dead.

[wall e]

NPR screwed up. Although, with a situation like this its hard to get straight facts

[jwicklun]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/235407/GABRIELLE-GIFFORDS-DEAD.jpg

[anamericangod]

Still alive as of now.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/235407/GABRIELLE-GIFFORDS-DEAD.jpg

Fucking unreal.

[Jason Tate]

hate to jump to any conclusions but ya here it is bigger:

http://delong.typepad.com/.a/6a00e551f0800388340148c76c2ebc970c-pi
Gun imagery like this sickens me to begin with. This is ridiculous (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/08/congresswoman-gabrie.html).

[Debut_Fin]

This is disgusting

[Machu505]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/235407/GABRIELLE-GIFFORDS-DEAD.jpg Holy shit.

[AndrewIcex]

So terrible, prayers out to her.

[jwicklun]

Just horrible. And to even continue the act upon a crowd. Theres a special place in hell for people like that.

[anamericangod]

Gun imagery like this sickens me to begin with. This is ridiculous (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/08/congresswoman-gabrie.html).

Disgusting. This is why the shit that Limbaugh, Beck, and Palin say isn't just bad politics, it is true fear and hate mongering, which has real consequences.

[ari telescope]

Praying she pulls through. Late teens to early 20's, wow. For lack of better words, this is bull and I'm really praying she survives this.

[Chemical Love]

I just heard about this. What a tragedy. I hope she survives the surgery.

[wall e]

Are you kidding me? Sick fucks

[jwicklun]

To think Palin is going to pass this out for not insinuating violence. Jesus Christ.

[Flight815]

So fucked up.

[jwicklun]

And to think a child was shot as well. This is just sick.

[Chemical Love]

CNN is reporting that 6 of the wounded have died. Horrible, just horrible.

[anamericangod]

So is the Palin target map actually from Palin, or from a third party group?

[Redpaperkut]

I fucking hate people.

[jwicklun]

Sarah Palin:"My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona.
On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice."

[Machu505]

So is the Palin target map actually from Palin, or from a third party group? From Palin.

MSNBC is reporting that a federal judge was shot and killed too. Jesus Christ.

[Chemical Love]

The Palin map is disgusting and eerie.

[joss d.]

Intersection was closed. Just saw a bunch of cop cars and an ambulance.

[Nevuk]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0111/Speaker_horrified_.html?showall

Boehner saying he is horrified.

[anamericangod]

From Palin.

MSNBC is reporting that a federal judge was shot and killed too. Jesus Christ.

Wow.

[SophGod]

Terrible. Awful. Words cannot describe this.

[Mirrorsandfevers]

Ugh. Basically solidifying Palin being a domestic terrorist.

[ari telescope]

Sarah Palin:"My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona.
On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice."
That's considerate and all, but it's the ignorance it takes to release a target map like this upon millions of people without considering that some crazy-ass conservative will think he's doing the republicans a favor.

[Mitch]

So is the Palin target map actually from Palin, or from a third party group?

Not sure about that specific map but there was a lot of controversy over the gun imagery last year and Palin called for a "peaceful revolution" but refused to stop using the imagery. Unless I'm mistaken.

And here's a good article about it:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0327/Sarah-Palin-s-gun-imagery-takes-aim-at-political-targets

[chrislauren]

This is absolutely beyond fucked up. So sad.

[cubsml34]

blows my mind

[jwicklun]

I just want to know the motive, reasoning and background of the shooter.

[Manicapathy]

Wow. It's sad and all that, but is anyone else interested in hearing what this guy's rationale was?

[Ollie McKraut]

why

[JCmanFuckyou]

hate to jump to any conclusions but ya here it is bigger:

http://delong.typepad.com/.a/6a00e551f0800388340148c76c2ebc970c-pi

you think its the healthcare thing? i was going to go with immigration. who knows really.

[ari telescope]

Not sure about that specific map but there was a lot of controversy over the gun imagery last year and Palin called for a "peaceful revolution" but refused to stop using the imagery. Unless I'm mistaken.

And here's a good article about it:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0327/Sarah-Palin-s-gun-imagery-takes-aim-at-political-targets

I fucking have always hated this bitch for how much she loves guns.

[jwicklun]

Lets wait and see even if the shooter was following Sarah Palin's diagram.

[Mitch]

21 year old suspect.

[Mirrorsandfevers]

I wonder how fast Palin's people are trying to fabricate the shooter's past.

[anamericangod]

I might be wrong, but if she does die, this will be the first time since 1978 that an active Congress member was killed in the line of duty.

[jwicklun]

The website might have gone down because of traffic.

[Ollie McKraut]

I might be wrong, but if she does die, this will be the first time since 1978 that an active Congress member was killed in the line of duty.

that was the jonestown guy correct?

[daphnebluestrat]

Tragic. But not any more tragic than every other shooting every other day in every other place for every other reason.

Hopefully, this will lead more people to see that violent rhetoric DOES lead to violence....somehow I doubt it.

[troubledbyinsects]

Fuck. Holy shit. This is horrible. Just horrible.

I really don't know what to say/think.

[DUSTINtheWind]

This is SO crazy! I go to University of Arizona, and have driven past this Safeway before. It is a Safeway in a more upscale part of Tucson. Just crazy that people could even do this.

My friend's brother works in the University Medical Center, which is where the victims were taken, and he said that it is so chaotic there right now.

:/

[Flight815]

Lets wait and see even if the shooter was following Sarah Palin's diagram.
If he was that will be all kinds of fucked. Seriously, I won't even know what to think of that.

[anamericangod]

that was the jonestown guy correct?

Yes, Leo Ryan.

Lets wait and see even if the shooter was following Sarah Palin's diagram.

Doesn't even matter, and unless he comes out and says "Yeah, that's why I did it" or they find evidence on a computer or something, there's no way of establishing a real link. Just the fact that she is putting out material in that fashion and contributing to that sort of loaded rhetoric is bad enough.

If the guy did use this as inspiration or whatever, than I hope that it wakes people the fuck up to how out of touch with reality Palin is. Right now I just hope somehow Giffords survives surgery and recovers.

[ellie117]

Wow. Simply, wow.

[tstick18]

I'm interested to hear the motive. Trying not to jump to any conclusions.

[Ailite]

This is absolutely tragic and horrific. I hope that Giffords pull through, I read that she died about a half hour ago and now she's still supposedly in surgery. This is utterly sickening. I hate to jump to conclusions but Palin's hitlist just can't fucking be ignored. The gun imagery/crosshairs say it all. Whether or not she lives or doesn't make it, this is going to have a lot of repercussions.

[Debut_Fin]

I might be wrong, but if she does die, this will be the first time since 1978 that an active Congress member was killed in the line of duty.

I think she would also be the first female politician in the US to be assassinated

[The Indigo]

I don't understand why Giffords would be assassinated. She's one of the more moderate liberals. My thoughts go out to her family.

[anamericangod]

I think she would also be the first female politician in the US to be assassinated

I believe you are correct.

[Ailite]

Yeah I think this is the first time a Congress member would have been killed since Jonestown.

[Flight815]

Yeah I obviously hope she pulls through and can recover as well, but like everyone else really want to hear this fuck's motives behind this.

[fightinirish217]

Absolutely tragic. I pray she fights through and survives this. A sad day for our country, she seems like a great congresswoman and person.

[Ollie McKraut]

I don't understand why Giffords would be assassinated. She's one of the more moderate liberals.

noticed this too

[Debut_Fin]

I don't understand why Giffords would be assassinated. She's one of the more moderate liberals. My thoughts go out to her family.

She really is incredibly moderate. I would never think of her as someone who would be a potential target


She strongly pro-choice
She favors requiring the hiring of women & minorities.
She strongly favors same-sex domestic partnership benefits.
She opposes teacher-led prayer in public schools.
She’s neutral on the death penalty.
She strongly opposes mandatory Three Strikes sentencing laws.
She supports the absolute right to gun ownership.
She strongly favors more federal funding for health coverage.
She’s neutral on privatizing social security.
She opposes school vouchers.
She strongly favors replacing coal & oil with alternatives.
She strongly supports the drug war.
She opposes allowing churches to provide welfare services.
She favors making taxes more progressive.
She strongly opposes allowing illegal immigrants to earn citizenship.
She opposes expanding free trade.
She strongly opposes the expansion of the armed forces.
She strongly favors strict limits on campaign funds.
She strongly opposes the Patriot Act.

[SincerelyMe]

Sickening. Hope she can pull through. My thoughts are with those who were killed.

So is the Palin target map actually from Palin, or from a third party group?

She tweeted it and then deleted it.

[mena]

http://i.imgur.com/kknx3.png

It only takes one nutjob to read too much into something like that. This is absolutely tragic.

[lovekillsgirl]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/gabrielle-giffords-shot-c_n_806211.html
site updates whenever more information comes out.

This is just so sad.

[atticus18244fss]

Interested to see who this douchebag that shot them was.

[Nick Le]

Everything about this is disgusting. Thoughts and prayers go out to her and her family. Really hope she pulls through and makes it.

[GetWellBoss]

This is absolutely crazy. I'm from Tucson and am in total shock. They haven't really released anything about the shooter and why he did all of this. Luckily it changed from her being to dead to her being in surgery. My thoughts and prayers are with her and many of the others that have been shot and/or killed.

The other weird thing is I'm surprised that there wasn't at least one sheriff deputy there at the location doing security. It just seems weird to me.

[The Indigo]

noticed this too
Home girl is super in pro-guns and anti-immigration.

[fightinirish217]

I heard on one channel that the gunman was actually shot by some sort of security guard? Not sure what type of guard he or she was. Security is definitely a big question in this situation.

[The Indigo]

She really is incredibly moderate. I would never think of her as someone who would be a potential target

She strongly pro-choice
She favors requiring the hiring of women & minorities.
She strongly favors same-sex domestic partnership benefits.
She opposes teacher-led prayer in public schools.
She’s neutral on the death penalty.
She strongly opposes mandatory Three Strikes sentencing laws.
She supports the absolute right to gun ownership.
She strongly favors more federal funding for health coverage.
She’s neutral on privatizing social security.
She opposes school vouchers.
She strongly favors replacing coal & oil with alternatives.
She strongly supports the drug war.
She opposes allowing churches to provide welfare services.
She favors making taxes more progressive.
She strongly opposes allowing illegal immigrants to earn citizenship.
She opposes expanding free trade.
She strongly opposes the expansion of the armed forces.
She strongly favors strict limits on campaign funds.
She strongly opposes the Patriot Act.
Would I be an asshole if I pointed out the irony in her being so pro-guns?

[Flight815]

This is absolutely crazy. I'm from Tucson and am in total shock. They haven't really released anything about the shooter and why he did all of this. Luckily it changed from her being to dead to her being in surgery. My thoughts and prayers are with her and many of the others that have been shot and/or killed.

The other weird thing is I'm surprised that there wasn't at least one sheriff deputy there at the location doing security. It just seems weird to me.
Noticed that last part too and was curious as to how someone could shoot her point blank without getting stopped. Or why no one was there to shoot back at this fucker.

[Debut_Fin]

Would I be an asshole if I pointed out the irony in her being so pro-guns?

Pro gun ownership =/= Pro violence

I'm not necessarily pro-gun

I'm just saying that she definitely doesn't deserve to get shot in the head because she thinks people should have the right to own a gun

[anamericangod]

Can we get the title of this thread changed since she was not killed?

[Chemical Love]

Noticed that last part too and was curious as to how someone could shoot her point blank without getting stopped. Or why no one was there to shoot back at this fucker.
Agreed. The lack of security is peculiar.

[GetWellBoss]

Noticed that last part too and was curious as to how someone could shoot her point blank without getting stopped. Or why no one was there to shoot back at this fucker.

I don't think she needs full on security like secret service and shit...but come on point blank in the head? Also..he got off more shots(15-20 some sources are saying). One sheriff could have taken that guy out. Hell anyone with a gun could have shot him. Just ridiculous.

[Spartan789013]

I'm curious to how she has not died after being shot point blank in the head.

[The Indigo]

Pro gun ownership =/= Pro violence

I'm not necessarily pro-gun

I'm just saying that she definitely doesn't deserve to get shot in the head because she thinks people should have the right to own a gun
Oh, certainly not. I wasn't implying that.

[anamericangod]

Agreed. The lack of security is peculiar.

No it isn't. This was just a face to face with her constituents. If we have reached the point (which we might have) where any person in a position like this needed an armed detail, then this country is fucked.

An elected official that isn't incredibly high profile or extremely controversial should not have to fear for their life.

[oldwirehands]

This sucks, though I'm not surprised at all, which also sucks.

[Under The Knife]

Sarah Palin had enough time to take down her target map featuring Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, but not enough time to issue condolences?

[GetWellBoss]

I'm curious to how she has not died after being shot point blank in the head.

Head trauma does not mean death. People live all of the time from such type of wounds. It all depends where it hits and what part of the brain it damages.

[Chemical Love]

No it isn't. This was just a face to face with her constituents. If we have reached the point (which we might have) where any person in a position like this needed an armed detail, then this country is fucked.

An elected official that isn't incredibly high profile or extremely controversial should not have to fear for their life.
its not? We have college and pro coaches with armed security. I don't think having local police there is asking anything crazy.

[Flight815]

Agreed. The lack of security is peculiar.

I don't think she needs full on security like secret service and shit...but come on point blank in the head? Also..he got off more shots(15-20 some sources are saying). One sheriff could have taken that guy out. Hell anyone with a gun could have shot him. Just ridiculous.
I'll just quote the both of you. Yes I think at least one sheriff should have been there. That's so much gunfire from one person that wasn't stopped. Sickening.

No it isn't. This was just a face to face with her constituents. If we have reached the point (which we might have) where any person in a position like this needed an armed detail, then this country is fucked.

An elected official that isn't incredibly high profile or extremely controversial should not have to fear for their life.
Not even one officer? I know they shouldn't have to fear for their lives but the fact is that it happened and not a soul was there to stop it from happening.

[The Indigo]

Sarah Palin had enough time to take down her target map featuring Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, but not enough time to issue condolences?
I thought she did issue condolences. It might've been posted in here, or maybe I saw it on Tumblr.

[FueledByRock]

Sarah Palin had enough time to take down her target map featuring Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, but not enough time to issue condolences?

My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona.

On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.

- Sarah Palin

Bullshit if I've ever read it. I really hope Palin gets grilled for this.

[wall e]

I can't tell if Palin is just a scapegoat or not. People want someone to blame. Not saying I support her though, I hate her.

[anamericangod]

its not? We have college and pro coaches with armed security. I don't think having local police there is asking anything crazy.

Wouldn't matter. Might have prevented him from getting a few more shots off. The bottom line is for the most part, unless it is the Pope, and you can get within an arms reach of a person, getting in a single headshot to do what you came there for will not be prevented by a security force. If anything in that situation the shooter would just be killed and people would never get the full story. There's no way to fully prevent these things.

Look at the shooting at Ft. Hood. Guy went apeshit on an enormous military installation and he still managed to shoot a ton of people.

I'll just quote the both of you. Yes I think at least one sheriff should have been there. That's so much gunfire from one person that wasn't stopped. Sickening.


Not even one officer? I know they shouldn't have to fear for their lives but the fact is that it happened and not a soul was there to stop it from happening.

It is almost logistically impossible to have an officer at every type of this event, every single time. Police are not an infinite resource. Also, once again, this was incredibly close quarters and if you can get in a handshake, you have more than enough opportunity to shoot somebody. Having an officer there would only be a secondary measure, which yes, could have prevented other people from being shot, but not the initial attack.

[Alou]

Sad stuff. Hope surgery goes well. Title needs to be changed.

[prince charming]

Horrible. Hope she makes it out alive.

[Ollie McKraut]

My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona.

On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.

- Sarah Palin

Bullshit if I've ever read it.

:rolleyes: yes, in reality she ordered the hit and is cackling in the eagle's nest of her cliffside fortress where it thunderstorms perpetually

[GetWellBoss]

I'll just quote the both of you. Yes I think at least one sheriff should have been there. That's so much gunfire from one person that wasn't stopped. Sickening.


Not even one officer? I know they shouldn't have to fear for their lives but the fact is that it happened and not a soul was there to stop it from happening.

Well technically one could have been there. We don't know. Working in the Criminal Justice field, it just seems weird to me how it all went down.

Also as Joe pointed out, this was something so small and you would hope that we wouldn't need security at an event like this...but sadly we may have to re-evaluate this.

[FueledByRock]

I can't tell if Palin is just a scapegoat or not. People want someone to blame. Not saying I support her though, I hate her.

The fact that she placed crosshairs on the woman on her website and was urging people to "reload" certainly doesn't make it out of the question that she had some part in influencing this nut.

[tstick18]

Heard that she has been responding to commands in the hospital. Very good news.

[live.]

I didn't realize that her campaign headquarters was shot at last year.

[heyzombiehitler]

i really hate the politics in this state. thoughts and prayers to all that are involved.

[loveisdead]

Can we get the title of this thread changed since she was not killed?

Yeah I'll do it now.

[FueledByRock]

:rolleyes: yes, in reality she ordered the hit and is cackling in the eagle's nest of her cliffside fortress where it thunderstorms perpetually

No, I'm saying her inflammatory language has contributed to the insane political climate America is in, and that to suddenly back off from this inflammatory language is bullshit.

[Theseventhson]

:rolleyes: yes, in reality she ordered the hit and is cackling in the eagle's nest of her cliffside fortress where it thunderstorms perpetually

Swing and a miss. Strike one.

[anamericangod]

Yeah I'll do it now.

Thank you.

[troubledbyinsects]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/gabrielle-giffords-shot-c_n_806211.html
site updates whenever more information comes out.

This is just so sad.
Richard J. Kastigar, the bureau chief for the Pima County Sheriff's Department, tells CNN that 18 individuals were shot and six are dead. He adds that Giffords is "gravely" wounded.

fuck

[zion the lion]

I'm curious to how she has not died after being shot point blank in the head.

Some people are incredibly lucky. I was watching a special on this woman who's husband was determined to kill her. He attacked her, tried to drown her and a few minutes later shot her point blank in the head, then a few weeks after she left the hospital, he shot her point blank in the head again...part of her face doesnt move as much but she's still alive and walking.

[Theseventhson]

3:44 PM ET State Senator: Giffords Through Surgery, 'Responding To Commands'
Via Brian Stelter, state senator Linda Lopez tells Fox, "We just heard that [Giffords] is responding to commands. She made it through surgery."

[mena]

I didn't realize that her campaign headquarters was shot at last year.
Her office door was also shattered when she voted for the health care bill. Poor woman. She seems to been have the target multiple times.

[tstick18]

Federal Judge John Roll has been pronounced dead.

Edit: Now they're saying they're not sure.

[Ollie McKraut]

Swing and a miss. Strike one.


pardon me? Sarah Palin may be an idiot yokel, but the idea that her condolences for a human being who was shot in the head are insincere is absurd. This is a tragedy, not a political maneuver.

[Jason Tate]

@HotlineReid (http://twitter.com/HotlineReid) If Bachmann is "stunned and angered" by shooting, why did she call for "armed and dangerous" resistance to Waxman-Markey?

"@SarahPalinUSA (http://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA) has crosshairs on our district; people have to realize there are consequences to that." - Rep Giffords http://bit.ly/dIAyBw

[anamericangod]

I'm curious to how she has not died after being shot point blank in the head.

Head trauma does not mean death. People live all of the time from such type of wounds. It all depends where it hits and what part of the brain it damages.

Yeah. A headshot obviously has potential to be horrible, but it's not instant death. Back in my forensics class there was a case where a person was shot in the head, the bullet struck the skull, and then traveled in a circular pattern around the edge of the skull. The person didn't die. Lots of variables, we don't know what kind of caliber weapon it was, how close he was, whatever.

She's responding to commands to perhaps somehow she avoided severe brain damage. What an incredible turn of events that would be.

[Under The Knife]

We can't really blame a website for Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' attempted assassination. But we can blame a culture in which dehumanizing speech is the norm

[GetWellBoss]

Also I can't believe that 11 people were also shot. Not to belittle representative Giffords life and the news coverage that she is receiving....but damn how it over shadows 11 other people either injured and possibly killed and their grieving families.

[J.C.]

pardon me? Sarah Palin may be an idiot yokel, but the idea that her condolences for a human being who was shot in the head are insincere is absurd. This is a tragedy, not a political maneuver.

She was insincere when she laughed off the idea that her rhetoric might potentially lead to an elected official being killed.

[FueledByRock]

pardon me? Sarah Palin may be an idiot yokel, but the idea that her condolences for a human being who was shot in the head are insincere is absurd. This is a tragedy, not a political maneuver.
If not insincere, her condolences are wildly hypocritical. To put crosshairs on this woman and to advocate reloading and then be surprised when some idiot takes those comments literally is just beyond the pale.

[Scrandon]

Fuck politics

[GetWellBoss]

Yeah. A headshot obviously has potential to be horrible, but it's not instant death. Back in my forensics class there was a case where a person was shot in the head, the bullet struck the skull, and then traveled in a circular pattern around the edge of the skull. The person didn't die. Lots of variables, we don't know what kind of caliber weapon it was, how close he was, whatever.

She's responding to commands to perhaps somehow she avoided severe brain damage. What an incredible turn of events that would be.

Ya. I'm supervising a guy on my caseload that was shot in the head by the police and he lived. Definite damage there...but he is still alive.

[Mibabalou]

2nd amendment ftw

[Simulcast]

Awful. Prayers for the victims.

Send Palin back to Alaska. I don't want to hear about her anymore.

[jwicklun]

Good to see that she's responding. Lets hope she can make a full recovery.

[loveisdead]

@HotlineReid (http://twitter.com/HotlineReid) If Bachmann is "stunned and angered" by shooting, why did she call for "armed and dangerous" resistance to Waxman-Markey?

"@SarahPalinUSA (http://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA) has crosshairs on our district; people have to realize there are consequences to that." - Rep Giffords http://bit.ly/dIAyBw
Holy shit.

[themagicrat]

MSNBC is saying that she's expected to pull through.

[Mirrorsandfevers]

Expected to pull through.

[anamericangod]

Judge John Roll faced threats for his immigration views and was previously under protection from US Federal Marshals.

[PTVsnewO]

this is absolutely sick. this goes to show that extremism in any medium can and will lead to unprecedented violence.

hopefully, this will inspire some people in our nation to take a more moderate approach on politics.

[Ollie McKraut]

She was insincere when she laughed off the idea that her rhetoric might potentially lead to an elected official being killed.

I missed that. I rolled my eyes at the issued condolences being referred to as 'bullshit' when it's obvious that nobody has anything to gain by this.

[jwicklun]

I'm sad to hear about the other 6 people. Hopefully we can change our rhetoric and hopefully something like this can be prevented.

[The Indigo]

Sarah Palin is definitely being used as a scapegoat by the online community, at least the ones I'm a part of.

[troubledbyinsects]

Thank God she'll be alright. Hopefully Palin catches some serious fucking heat on this.

[rollerman4221]

i hope the daily show crushes palin over this

[anamericangod]

Can't wait to see Glenn Beck spin and deflect this shit!!!

i hope the daily show crushes palin over this

I hope he unleashes hell. They should air a totally unedited show, take the fines, and just say whatever they want. Sometimes I feel like he is the only person that has the balls to say what really matters.

[FueledByRock]

this is absolutely sick. this goes to show that extremism in any medium can and will lead to unprecedented violence.

hopefully, this will inspire some people in our nation to take a more moderate approach on politics.

This, seriously. If this does nothing to temper extremism (at least among politicians) I don't know what will.

[troubledbyinsects]

Sarah Palin is definitely being used as a scapegoat by the online community, at least the ones I'm a part of.

I don't see how she's being used as a "scapegoat" on here. No one is necessarily saying it's her fault, but it's pretty fucking awful/stupid about the map with the cross hairs she had and just how idiotic she is overall.

[jwicklun]

Name of the shooter is Jared Laughner, 22 year old white male.

[The Indigo]

If not insincere, her condolences are wildly hypocritical. To put crosshairs on this woman and to advocate reloading and then be surprised when some idiot takes those comments literally is just beyond the pale.
We don't know anything about the shooter. Home boy could be a liberal who thinks Gabby Giffords is a racist gun nut. A lot of people are jumping to conclusions on this when it could just as likely be coincidence.

[J.C.]

She is being used as a scapegoat, but that doesn't mean it's unwarranted.

[Jason Tate]

We don't know anything about the shooter. Home boy could be a liberal who thinks Gabby Giffords is a racist gun nut. A lot of people are jumping to conclusions on this when it could just as likely be coincidence.
It being a coincidence does not justify the rhetoric.

[crackedthesky]

I doubt the Daily Show will really touch this. There's no way to make humor out of this.

[FueledByRock]

I doubt the Daily Show will really touch this. There's no way to make humor out of this.
As of late the Daily Show has taken on serious issues without humor, like with the 9/11 firefighters who were on the program. I would be surprised if Stewart did not do anything.

[The Indigo]

She is being used as a scapegoat, but that doesn't mean it's unwarranted.

It being a coincidence does not justify the rhetoric.
I agree, but I feel like until we know more, some of the blame-laying on Palin right now kind of makes me uncomfortable. It's as if some are trying to use this to attack Palin. I mean, I don't know, a child was killed and so was a federal judge. I'm just weirded out by how politicized this thing is coming already.

[jwicklun]

Daily Show will be more sincere with a subject like this.

[PHI Flyers10]

2nd amendment ftw
I'm a Republican and all for the 2nd amendment, but you can get the fuck out of here with that shit.

I hope all those injured are okay. Thoughts go out to all families involved.

[wall e]

How could the Daily Show not touch this?

[Mirrorsandfevers]

I doubt the Daily Show will really touch this. There's no way to make humor out of this.

Stewart will most likely have a serious tone for it. He's done so before.

[Under The Knife]

If rep. Gabrielle Giffords pulls through, we need to start posting things to rival stories of Pres. Andrew Jackson's badassery.

[crackedthesky]

As of late the Daily Show has taken on serious issues without humor, like with the 9/11 firefighters who were on the program. I would be surprised if Stewart did not do anything.

Yeah, but he took a humorous approach to it, pointing out the hypocrisy of the right on the issue, and he did it in a humorous way. I don't know how he could do the same for this. But I'm sure those gys will come up with something, I guess.

[The Indigo]

Only one patient is dead.

[jwicklun]

Also reports that she is out of surgery and alive.

[FueledByRock]

I agree, but I feel like until we know more, some of the blame-laying on Palin right now kind of makes me uncomfortable. It's as if some are trying to use this to attack Palin. I mean, I don't know, a child was killed and so was a federal judge. I'm just weirded out by how politicized this thing is coming already.

It's hard to make the case that inflammatory political rhetoric had nothing to do with this incident, but I can understand what you're saying.

[WTG]

This is just awful. Hopefully she can pull through this.

[crackedthesky]

I agree, but I feel like until we know more, some of the blame-laying on Palin right now kind of makes me uncomfortable. It's as if some are trying to use this to attack Palin. I mean, I don't know, a child was killed and so was a federal judge. I'm just weirded out by how politicized this thing is coming already.

You're surprised that a politician being shot for political reasons is being politicized?

[anamericangod]

Lurking the shooter:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

http://gallery.pictopia.com/azstar/gallery/102269/photo/8842226/?o=12

His myspace page has been dweeped:

Here's the cache from another page where he left a ton of comments as youtube videos: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BeE-p-5nQ4QJ:www.myspace.com/28299026+%22jared+loughner%22+site: myspace.com+tucson&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

[PHI Flyers10]

Watching Fox now and a doctor said that the young child died. That's horrible.

[mena]

The deceased patient was a child.

[Flight815]

I'm a Republican and all for the 2nd amendment, but you can get the fuck out of here with that shit.

I hope all those injured are okay. Thoughts go out to all families involved.
I'm guessing he was being facetious.

[Machu505]

Killed a fucking child.

[fightinirish217]

Wow this is overwhelming. Small child killed. Totally tragic.

[The Indigo]

If rep. Gabrielle Giffords pulls through, we need to start posting things to rival stories of Pres. Andrew Jackson's badassery.
A revival of the Bull Moose Party?

Gabby's in critical condition, but her surgery is done.

[troubledbyinsects]

Lurking the shooter:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

http://gallery.pictopia.com/azstar/gallery/102269/photo/8842226/?o=12

His myspace page has been dweeped:

Here's the cache from another page where he left a ton of comments as youtube videos: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BeE-p-5nQ4QJ:www.myspace.com/28299026+%22jared+loughner%22+site: myspace.com+tucson&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari
wow

[FueledByRock]

Lurking the shooter:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

http://gallery.pictopia.com/azstar/gallery/102269/photo/8842226/?o=12

His myspace page has been dweeped:

Here's the cache from another page where he left a ton of comments as youtube videos: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BeE-p-5nQ4QJ:www.myspace.com/28299026+%22jared+loughner%22+site: myspace.com+tucson&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari
Jesus, that's scary. Definitely indicative of some sort of political motivation.

[Mibabalou]

I'm a Republican and all for the 2nd amendment, but you can get the fuck out of here with that shit.

I hope all those injured are okay. Thoughts go out to all families involved.

BUT, BUT, IF EVERYONE HAD GUNS THEY'D HAVE SHOT THE PERP BEFORE HE HURT ANYONE.



My thoughts and prayers go out to all the families shattered today.

[anamericangod]

Cook the books:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=139527&mesg_id=139527

[GetWellBoss]

Lurking the shooter:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

http://gallery.pictopia.com/azstar/gallery/102269/photo/8842226/?o=12

His myspace page has been dweeped:

Here's the cache from another page where he left a ton of comments as youtube videos: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BeE-p-5nQ4QJ:www.myspace.com/28299026+%22jared+loughner%22+site: myspace.com+tucson&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

that kid was fucking crazy....

[The Indigo]

You're surprised that a politician being shot for political reasons is being politicized?
Still no proof it was politically motivated. Even if it was, I still would be made uncomfortable by people taking this kind of tragedy and using it to politically attack Palin.

It's hard to make the case that inflammatory political rhetoric had nothing to do with this incident, but I can understand what you're saying.
It's hard to make a case for anything right now.

[crackedthesky]

Lurking the shooter:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

http://gallery.pictopia.com/azstar/gallery/102269/photo/8842226/?o=12

His myspace page has been dweeped:

Here's the cache from another page where he left a ton of comments as youtube videos: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BeE-p-5nQ4QJ:www.myspace.com/28299026+%22jared+loughner%22+site: myspace.com+tucson&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

That dude is insane.

[Dustin Harkins]

I'm just disgusted.

[Flight815]

Yeah those videos are from a fucking nutcase. He talks about English grammar and then babbles without any regard to grammar whatsoever.

[anamericangod]

There are bigger things to worry about here than stupid comments made by Palin. I agree her rhetoric has the potential to be harmful to America but we have people young and old killed here and our thoughts and prayers should be with them. There is no need to attack Palin or anyone else at the moment, except for the gunman who has committed a horrific crime. I'm astounded at how quickly this has become political on this site.

How is this not political? He targeted a Congresswoman for assassination and murdered a federal judge? Both of who had been threatened (with credible threats) numerous times, and had been put on a target map by the woman who was almost the Vice President of the country.

Obviously we feel for the victims and our thoughts and prayers are with them, but there isn't anything we can do about that. It's in the hands of doctors and whatever God you believe in. What we can do is discuss the political ramifications of this and share our thoughts on how the current political environment could push somebody to do this.

[Jason Tate]

There are bigger things to worry about here than stupid comments made by Palin. I agree her rhetoric has the potential to be harmful to America but we have people young and old killed here and our thoughts and prayers should be with them. There is no need to attack Palin or anyone else at the moment, except for the gunman who has committed a horrific crime. I'm astounded at how quickly this has become political on this site.
My thoughts can be in two places at once. And, it is a political issue. For a variety of reasons. I've been tired of this sort of talk for a long time from all sides. It's fear mongering, crowd rising, and baits weak minds.

[crackedthesky]

Still no proof it was politically motivated. Even if it was, I still would be made uncomfortable by people taking this kind of tragedy and using it to politically attack Palin.


It's hard to make a case for anything right now.

Look at his YouTube videos.

In any case, when you have Palin telling people to "reload" and putting crosshairs over this woman's face, you can't hide behind tragedy to avoid responsibility. Even if it has nothing to do with Palin, people have been telling her to knock that shit off for three years, and she hasn't done so - until now.

[Ollie McKraut]

Yeah those videos are from a fucking nutcase. He talks about English grammar and then babbles without any regard to grammar whatsoever.

I picked up on a discrepancy there too. No idea what he's driving at though.

[ari telescope]

She really is incredibly moderate. I would never think of her as someone who would be a potential target


She strongly pro-choice
She favors requiring the hiring of women & minorities.
She strongly favors same-sex domestic partnership benefits.
She opposes teacher-led prayer in public schools.
She’s neutral on the death penalty.
She strongly opposes mandatory Three Strikes sentencing laws.
She supports the absolute right to gun ownership.
She strongly favors more federal funding for health coverage.
She’s neutral on privatizing social security.
She opposes school vouchers.
She strongly favors replacing coal & oil with alternatives.
She strongly supports the drug war.
She opposes allowing churches to provide welfare services.
She favors making taxes more progressive.
She strongly opposes allowing illegal immigrants to earn citizenship.
She opposes expanding free trade.
She strongly opposes the expansion of the armed forces.
She strongly favors strict limits on campaign funds.
She strongly opposes the Patriot Act.

Wait, why surprised? The first five alone is motive for a Palin supporter.

[wall e]

Will he plead insanity?

[troubledbyinsects]

There are bigger things to worry about here than stupid comments made by Palin. I agree her rhetoric has the potential to be harmful to America but we have people young and old killed here and our thoughts and prayers should be with them. There is no need to attack Palin or anyone else at the moment, except for the gunman who has committed a horrific crime. I'm astounded at how quickly this has become political on this site.
This couldn't be more of a political subject. Cut it out with that nonsense.

[MyWorldEntire]

Shot in the brain through and through, how could she possibly be responding to commands?

[studskalny]

Sickening. Nice to see she survived surgery, one can only hope she makes a full recovery. On the other hand, at least 6 other people died? Fuck.

How could the Daily Show not touch this?

Exactly, it's absurd to think that they wouldn't give this the time of day. I think they can get more people to recognize the harmful rhetoric that has gotten under people's skin over the past year or so. Yeah no humor can be found in this but it's not like the 9/11 responders show was focusing on being funny either.

[fightinirish217]

How is this not political? He targeted a Congresswoman for assassination and murdered a federal judge? Both of who had been threatened (with credible threats) numerous times, and had been put on a target map by the woman who was almost the Vice President of the country.

Obviously we feel for the victims and our thoughts and prayers are with them, but there isn't anything we can do about that. It's in the hands of doctors and whatever God you believe in. What we can do is discuss the political ramifications of this and share our thoughts on how the current political environment could push somebody to do this.

And I agree that the political environment is dangerous. It just seemed like people were talking in absolutes regarding Palin and whatever she had said or posted online. Obviously there was probably some sort of political motive for this but we have to wait for definite statements from the gunman or from an investigation before making conclusions.

I'm on your side here regarding the volatile political climate in America and the potential it has to incite violence like we've seen today. It has to be stopped.

[Flight815]

Will he plead insanity?
He'll have a strong case if he does.

[troubledbyinsects]

Will he plead insanity?
I'm guessing he will.

[kemichels]

Can't wait to see Glenn Beck spin and deflect this shit!!!



I hope he unleashes hell. They should air a totally unedited show, take the fines, and just say whatever they want. Sometimes I feel like he is the only person that has the balls to say what really matters.

This. Him and Keith Obermann

[fightinirish217]

This couldn't be more of a political subject. Cut it out with that nonsense.

See what I said to anamericangod, please. I hope this is the end of Palin's career, I'm just trying not to think of political arguments at the moment.

[evenifitkillsme]

http://gallery.pictopia.com/azstar/gallery/102269/photo/8842226/?o=12

this is him.

edit: saw anamericangod already had it ;) my bad.

[crackedthesky]

Will he plead insanity?

Well, he won't, considering he apparently believes that his entire life is just a dream, but his defense might.

Anyone catch the references to gold in his video? Sounds pretty similar to what Beck and Paul have been rabbling on about, recently.

[jwicklun]

Its horrifying to see a child be killed.

[The Indigo]

How is this not political? He targeted a Congresswoman for assassination and murdered a federal judge? Both of who had been threatened (with credible threats) numerous times, and had been put on a target map by the woman who was almost the Vice President of the country.

Obviously we feel for the victims and our thoughts and prayers are with them, but there isn't anything we can do about that. It's in the hands of doctors and whatever God you believe in. What we can do is discuss the political ramifications of this and share our thoughts on how the current political environment could push somebody to do this.
This is what I'm not ready to do. I mean, I know there are no specific times for when this stuff should be discussed, but she was shot just a few hours ago. A kid died. I don't really know what I'm saying, but it's just weird to discuss this as a political event rather than, you know, murder.

But I get what you're saying.

[Under The Knife]

We've seen what Sarah Palin's Alaska looks like. The shooting of Giffords today gives a preview Sarah Palin's America.

[L'Inhumaine]

Yeah those videos are from a fucking nutcase. He talks about English grammar and then babbles without any regard to grammar whatsoever.
He'd fit in well on this site.

[Flight815]

I don't understand anyone who say's that this isn't political.

[anamericangod]

Will he plead insanity?

He'll have a strong case if he does.

No, he won't have a strong case at all. I doubt he will even plead insanity. There's way too much evidence that he was sane enough to keep up with politics and plan this out, and who knows what other shit they will find at his house. This was as premeditated as it gets.

As for insanity, less than 1% of all criminal cases that go to court use the insanity please, and less than 25% of these work. So you are looking at a .025% chance it works. Not happening. This guy is going to die, no doubt about it.

[luvsickcatalyst]

http://i.imgur.com/kknx3.png

It only takes one nutjob to read too much into something like that. This is absolutely tragic.
We've seen what Sarah Palin's Alaska looks like. The shooting of Giffords today gives a preview Sarah Palin's America.
So disturbingly true. I genuinely hope Giffords pulls through and this spells the end of Palin's career for good.

2nd amendment ftw
You probably think it's hilarious to write shock factor stuff or whatever possessed you to write something like this, but this is absolutely poor in taste. Kindly delete this and gtfo.

[crackedthesky]

Shot in the brain through and through, how could she possibly be responding to commands?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

The human brain is an incredible thing, and it's a lot stronger than most people think, and than most movies and tv shows make it out to be. In my reading experience, people survive gunshots to the head more often than one might think. I read an article just last year where a guy got shot in the eye and walked away from the scene.

[The Indigo]

Just wanna point out that the sources reporting the shooter's name have been wrong about a couple of other things today. A lot of places are just reporting the first thing they hear without thoroughly fact checking it.

[Flight815]

No, he won't have a strong case at all. I doubt he will even plead insanity. There's way too much evidence that he was sane enough to keep up with politics and plan this out, and who knows what other shit they will find at his house. This was as premeditated as it gets.

As for insanity, less than 1% of all criminal cases that go to court use the insanity please, and less than 25% of these work. So you are looking at a .025% chance it works. Not happening. This guy is going to die, no doubt about it.
I was being sarcastic because of the videos you posted.

I hope he gets the death penalty. It will make me even more sick if all of this was part of some elaborate plan.

[Simulcast]

We've seen what Sarah Palin's Alaska looks like. The shooting of Giffords today gives a preview Sarah Palin's America.

Have you ever had one original thought in your entire life? Stop passing off other's tweets as your own. It's annoying.



I hope this takes Sarah Palin off the political map. As a conservative I'm disgusted that she's associated with rational people on my side of the fence.

[FueledByRock]

Just wanna point out that the sources reporting the shooter's name have been wrong about a couple of other things today. A lot of places are just reporting the first thing they hear without thoroughly fact checking it.
While that's true, judging by his youtube channel and the picture posted by anamericangod, it definitely seems like that's the guy.

[maxvsmaradona]

Quite a sucky situation.

wait, since I'm not into political shenanigans, can someone briefly explain what Sarah P has anything to do with this?

[crackedthesky]

This is what I'm not ready to do. I mean, I know there are no specific times for when this stuff should be discussed, but she was shot just a few hours ago. A kid died. I don't really know what I'm saying, but it's just weird to discuss this as a political event rather than, you know, murder.

But I get what you're saying.

Then when is the right time? I've never understood the "too soon" argument. When something is wrong, you don't wait until everybody feels better to talk about it and start taking preventative measures against it.

I can kind of get what you're saying, but it seems a bit closed-ended. People were murdered, yes - but waiting two weeks or two years or a thousand years to talk about it won't change that fact, talking more about murder than prevention of future cases of it won't change that fact.

[J.C.]

And I agree that the political environment is dangerous. It just seemed like people were talking in absolutes regarding Palin and whatever she had said or posted online. Obviously there was probably some sort of political motive for this but we have to wait for definite statements from the gunman or from an investigation before making conclusions.

Again, she scoffed at criticism that her rhetoric(or any of it's kind) might contribute to a climate where someone does seek violence against a publicly elected official. I assume she won't be eas eager to use that language now, which would indicate she's more considerate of the consequences than she was before.

[PHI Flyers10]

BUT, BUT, IF EVERYONE HAD GUNS THEY'D HAVE SHOT THE PERP BEFORE HE HURT ANYONE.



My thoughts and prayers go out to all the families shattered today.
This isn't the place for political debate though. Nineteen people were shot, which should be the the focus of this. You can debate after the whole thing is done because people don't even know this guy or the motives.

[GetWellBoss]

No, he won't have a strong case at all. I doubt he will even plead insanity. There's way too much evidence that he was sane enough to keep up with politics and plan this out, and who knows what other shit they will find at his house. This was as premeditated as it gets.

As for insanity, less than 1% of all criminal cases that go to court use the insanity please, and less than 25% of these work. So you are looking at a .025% chance it works. Not happening. This guy is going to die, no doubt about it.

haha. i was just typing this out on another page.

Joe is right. He won't plead insanity. If he does...he won't get it.

Now this doesn't mean he's not with a mental illness however. From the things that I've read about him, he shows some signs.

Also I just found out this girl I know from Tucson(my home town) was in a band with him. She stated that he was always really weird and politically charged, but never thought he would do something like this.

[anamericangod]

I was being sarcastic because of the videos you posted.

I hope he gets the death penalty. It will make me even more sick if all of this was part of some elaborate plan.

Might not even be an elaborate plan, but if you take the time to post on Myspace saying "Goodbye friends" and then figure out when a politician is going to be at an easily accessible even, that's enough of a plan. Nothing elaborate needed. Dude is just a piece of shit with no regard for human life, and while I am against the death penalty, after this investigation is eventually concluded I would hope he gets justice rather than sitting in a cell for 20-60 years on the taxypaper's dollar.

The taxpayer's dollar of the representative he tried to murder. Fuck that.

[Jason Tate]

Personally, don't like the "kill him" mentality. We've had enough gruesome death today. Living life in prison would be far worse, in my view.

[The Indigo]

Look at his YouTube videos.

In any case, when you have Palin telling people to "reload" and putting crosshairs over this woman's face, you can't hide behind tragedy to avoid responsibility. Even if it has nothing to do with Palin, people have been telling her to knock that shit off for three years, and she hasn't done so - until now.
I'm not convinced the reports on the shooter's name are accurate yet. Like I said earlier, a lot of sources are just reporting the first thing they hear without thoroughly fact checking it. She didn't put cross hairs on Giffords' face, but I see what you're saying. That's not conducive rhetoric for peaceful politics. But I'm just made uncomfortable with people blaming this on Palin. It seems so... political, so removed. I've seen more hate on Palin than on the shooter.

[crackedthesky]

Just wanna point out that the sources reporting the shooter's name have been wrong about a couple of other things today. A lot of places are just reporting the first thing they hear without thoroughly fact checking it.

The stuff that has been wrong was given to news sources, by witnesses. The suspect's name was released by the police.

[fightinirish217]

Again, she scoffed at criticism that her rhetoric(or any of it's kind) might contribute to a climate where someone does seek violence against a publicly elected official. I assume she won't be eas eager to use that language now, which would indicate she's more considerate of the consequences than she was before.

Well if that's true than that's despicable and I hope that, despite the tragedies today, this horrible event will contribute to the end of her political career.

[Ollie McKraut]

I hope this takes Sarah Palin off the political map. As a conservative I'm disgusted that she's associated with rational people on my side of the fence.

I do agree with this. I wouldn't call myself a 'republican' but she is an embarrassment. While she has a right to say whatever she likes, and it's her faction of supporters that mainstream her rhetoric, we've seen that it's irresponsible.

[Jason Tate]

@daveanthony (http://twitter.com/daveanthony): If an American Iranian group had placed those gun sights on a map, @sarahpalinusa (http://twitter.com/sarahpalinusa) would be calling them terrorists right now.

[troubledbyinsects]

See what I said to anamericangod, please. I hope this is the end of Palin's career, I'm just trying not to think of political arguments at the moment.

Yeah I saw it, I get what you're saying now.

[anamericangod]

This isn't the place for political debate though. Nineteen people were shot, which should be the the focus of this. You can debate after the whole thing is done because people don't even know this guy or the motives.

You're right, it's entirely possible he woke up one day, stumbled into this event while carrying a loaded weapon, and just felt the sudden urge to fucking kill everyone. Totally plausible and I eagerly await your career as a defense attorney.

This is the Politics Forum. It is the place for political debate. People were shot and killed because of politics. If we had a Sympathy, Prayers, and Good Intentions forum, you could post there instead.

[crackedthesky]

I'm not convinced the reports on the shooter's name are accurate yet. Like I said earlier, a lot of sources are just reporting the first thing they hear without thoroughly fact checking it. She didn't put cross hairs on Giffords' face, but I see what you're saying. That's not conducive rhetoric for peaceful politics. But I'm just made uncomfortable with people blaming this on Palin. It seems so... political, so removed. I've seen more hate on Palin than on the shooter.

Again, I'm not blaming her. If anything, I'm saying "I fucking told you so, now fucking cut it out." She's been making violent suggestions for three years, and people have been asking her to stop for three years. Now, whether it's because of her or not, what she has been syaing has happened. Even if this guy has never heard of Sarah Palin, it's time for her to stop.

[maxvsmaradona]

Living life in prison would be far worse, in my view.

I'll agree to that. I've seen enough of Lockup Raw on msnbc to know that prison life absolutely blows. Put the guy in solitary for years... it's worse than being dead.

[The Indigo]

Then when is the right time? I've never understood the "too soon" argument. When something is wrong, you don't wait until everybody feels better to talk about it and start taking preventative measures against it.

I can kind of get what you're saying, but it seems a bit closed-ended. People were murdered, yes - but waiting two weeks or two years or a thousand years to talk about it won't change that fact, talking more about murder than prevention of future cases of it won't change that fact.
I've got no issue with talking about the murder, but people are turning it into a political tool already. Again, I'm not asking people to not talk about it. Just sort of thinking as I talk.

[Jason Tate]

Again, I'm not blaming her. If anything, I'm saying "I fucking told you so, now fucking cut it out." She's been making violent suggestions for three years, and people have been asking her to stop for three years. Now, whether it's because of her or not, what she has been syaing has happened. Even if this guy has never heard of Sarah Palin, it's time for her to stop.
This.

[wall e]

I feel uncomfortable seeing this ad at the top of this thread

http://i54.tinypic.com/2n6dgm0.jpg

[Under The Knife]

I hope she doesnt use this as a tactic when the re-election comes around. (like Sarah palin and her special kid)

[anamericangod]

Personally, don't like the "kill him" mentality. We've had enough gruesome death today. Living life in prison would be far worse, in my view.

I understand the point of view, as that is how I usually feel in regards to issues like this, but he's hardly 20 something. Is he worth 60 years of paying for? On the other side, maybe he deserves 60 years of solitary. That might be worse than death.

[The Indigo]

Personally, don't like the "kill him" mentality. We've had enough gruesome death today. Living life in prison would be far worse, in my view.
QFT.

[crackedthesky]

I've got no issue with talking about the murder, but people are turning it into a political tool already. Again, I'm not asking people to not talk about it. Just sort of thinking as I talk.

Again, though, this is a politician being targeted for political reasons. There's nothign wrong with asking for others to change their political rhetoric and stop suggesting things like this be done.

[Keagan Ilvonen]

So fucked up.

[Jason Tate]

I feel uncomfortable seeing this ad at the top of this thread

http://i54.tinypic.com/2n6dgm0.jpg
AP.net shouldn't be serving ads like that to begin with ... what add-ons do you have installed?

[tkamB]

This is the consequence of hate/fear mongering. Yes we probably are making connections to quickly but it would be extremely coincidental if the guy attacked a congresswoman on Palin's map on a whim. This reminds me of the taxi driver that was killed in New York because he was a Muslim during the whole Islamic community center controversy. I don't know how Sarah Palin will sleep to night.

[The Indigo]

Again, I'm not blaming her. If anything, I'm saying "I fucking told you so, now fucking cut it out." She's been making violent suggestions for three years, and people have been asking her to stop for three years. Now, whether it's because of her or not, what she has been syaing has happened. Even if this guy has never heard of Sarah Palin, it's time for her to stop.
I agree.

[Jason Tate]

I understand the point of view, as that is how I usually feel in regards to issues like this, but he's hardly 20 something. Is he worth 60 years of paying for? On the other side, maybe he deserves 60 years of solitary. That might be worse than death.
I've seen some stats that say killing someone costs quite a bit as well. I'm not really thinking about the money.

[GetWellBoss]

McCain just released an announcement calling the guy a disgrace to the human race.

[J.C.]

McCain just released an announcement calling the guy a disgrace to the human race.

pot kettle

[heyjoshua]

the shooter is nothing but a domestic terrorist, from my point of view at least.

[JuneJuly]

Personally, don't like the "kill him" mentality. We've had enough gruesome death today. Living life in prison would be far worse, in my view.

This. I've always thought that rotting in prison would be way worse.

[Keagan Ilvonen]

pot kettle

Bingo.

[GetWellBoss]

pot kettle

i disagree. I think the republican party needed to take a firm stance on this saying that it was unacceptable so it didn't explode into something greater than this by other lunatics.

[troubledbyinsects]

McCain just released an announcement calling the guy a disgrace to the human race.

Hmmmm

[heyjoshua]

McCain just released an announcement calling the guy a disgrace to the human race.

Couldn't agree more

[wall e]

AP.net shouldn't be serving ads like that to begin with ... what add-ons do you have installed?

I should probably get a better ad-blocker. I'm not blaming AP, of course.

[Matt Chylak]

@daveanthony (http://twitter.com/daveanthony): If an American Iranian group had placed those gun sights on a map, @sarahpalinusa (http://twitter.com/sarahpalinusa) would be calling them terrorists right now.

amen.