perfection through desperation

[xAlexisonfirex]

the art of losing a loved one
and still pretending
they grace your presence

the fear of telling your family
that you have become a failure
and the tears in their eyes

perfection through desperation
is where i lie

the ocean can't save me
neither can my dreams
or the running ink on my sweaty palms
notes of what i wish to become

as if looking to the sky
will help me out any
i'd rather look through a crowd of people
the resemblence is uncanny

the art of losing a loved one
and still pretending
they grace your presence

the fear of telling your family
that you have become a failure
and the tears in their eyes

perfection through desperation
is where i lie





i will explain later if you want. oh, everyone go buy artist in the ambulance and shutup.

[dakknox]

alright what is it about in relation to you, and i agree i'm picking up my new thrice record tonight, i like the part where you say "perfection through desperation is where i lie", later

[MaybeOneDay]

good lyrics

but i think you should change the title....sounds a little too much like "perfection through silence" by finch.

[Alex Djaferis]

Originally posted by MaybeOneDay
good lyrics

but i think you should change the title....sounds a little too much like "perfection through silence" by finch.

[xAlexisonfirex]

ive never even heard/ or of that song.

that sucks and is gay to go with it.

[wewin]

First off, there are too many "the art of..." phrases already.
AFI - the art of drowning
then there's other ones like art of losing, fine art of falling, etc.

cliches used:

-ink on body
-attaining perfection by being sad
-looking to the sky to find aid
-the failure of dreams to help
-the vague "contempation of suicide"
-missing a loved one
-failing loved ones

These phrases are some of the cornerstones of mediocrity.

This song loses some points because, although it's a typical "xalexisonfirex" song expressing the "darker feelings" of life, it doesn't have a focus. It seems like you've just grabbed whatever vaguely sad, depressing imagery you could get your hands on and plunked it down. It doesn't seem coherent, and the air of sadness seems forced and false.

What do you think emo music is? Sadness and regret all the time? Loser.

Compare these lyrics to your idols. Are they anywhere close to being as good? If they are, get some new idols, because these lyrics are boring, typical, unoriginal, possessed of no discernable style, and make me laugh when they should be making me sad.

[Rufio217]

Wewin shut teh fuck up abotu cliche, hearign you say "that is a cliche" has become cliche enough, All you do is bitch about how thigns are so cliche adn it gets fucking annoying the kids got a decent song here tell him how he can improve it, but not with your fucking cliche terms, adn your attempt to use large words to make your sound sound analytically correct....be simple and help teh kid instead of tellign everyone how much their music sucks due to it's use of "cornerstones of mediocrity" jesus christ dude

[MapleLeaf]

chill out rufio boy. the guy is one of the few people that actually gives any constructive criticism.

[Rufio217]

calling ever song a cliche is not constructive criticism it is just annoying...how is telling someone their song is a cliche have anythign constructive about it

[xAlexisonfirex]

how can you tell me that that writing is bad when it is how i feel?

you can't.

cliches used:

-ink on body (not a cliche)
-attaining perfection by being sad (not a cliche)
-looking to the sky to find aid (ALOT OF PEOPLE FUCKIGN DO THIS ASSHOLE)
-the failure of dreams to help (not a cliche, dreams help in most songs)
-the vague "contempation of suicide" (i never contemplated suicide in the song)
-missing a loved one (nobody misses loved ones nowadays. either way im not saying that in the song.)
-failing loved ones (this oculd be a cliche that i used)


i am not attaining perfection by being sad. and where have you heard a song that talks about being perfect because they are sad?

first line is about how i still ask my mom for help as if she is still here. and she isnt.

seconde verse, it is leading up to the fact thati am more afraid of failing, which is my only motivation to do something great.

hence, perfection through desperation.



the ocean cant save me- im moving ot the beach next week, to basically start a new.

neither can my dreams- i can have all the dreams i want but i still have to act on them and the only reason iwill is because i dont want to fail, not because i want to acheive my dreams.

the ink reference- lyrics i write on my hands about what i want to become, sweating off

"as if looking to the sky
will help me out any
i'd rather look through a crowd of people
the resemblence is uncanny "

to me, looking to my peers opr other people for help is more then looking to the sky (heaven) for help.



WEWIN, IF YOU DON'T KNOW ME OR MY BELIEFES, OR WHAT THE SONG IS ABOUT DON'T COMMENT AND TELL ME WHAT IT IS ABOUT LIKE I JUST WROTE IT OUT OF MY ASS.

[wewin]

how can you tell me that that writing is bad when it is how i feel?

you can't.

If I cannot judge your writing as "bad", then that means:

A: that you post on this site just for praise (people can only judge it as "good"). This make you a fuck.
B: that no one can judge your writing for good, either. You can't call something good if you cannot also call it bad. You can't have one without the other.

I still firmly believe that all the cliches i pointed out really ARE cliches. The "perfection through being sad" IS found in other songs.

that thrice song, the 4th on on IOS: "somehow i'm made perfect in this fracture" i think he says. The idea is to become strong by becoming cold and hard, and it's been done before. Finding refuge in misery is cowardly and weak, and i'm tired of people glorifying it.

The reason i point out cliches is that it IS construtive criticism. By changing the way you say something, but NOT the idea of what you are trying to say (meaning rephrase your words so they AREN'T cliches, but rephrase them in a way that keeps the same meaning), it can automatically make the song seem more fresh and more interesting. No one wants to read the same wording over and over...how many times do you want to read about, for instance, a "broken heart", in that EXACT PHRASE? I'm not talking about writing about something differently; you obviously want to keep writing these "dark" songs. I'm just talking about writing about them in a different way.

-looking to the sky to find aid (ALOT OF PEOPLE FUCKIGN DO THIS ASSHOLE)

yes, that may be true, but can you think of another way to SAY it? Example: you don't have to say "sky". say "above"...that's a pretty weak example, but it illustrates what i'm trying to say: that if you use substitute synonymous language into your songs, thus preserving the idea (but chaning the way you say it), the song seems better.

Have you heard of Converge? I think that they used the "looking to the sky for help, but not getting any" idea pretty well in their album title "petitioning the empty sky".

-the failure of dreams to help (not a cliche, dreams help in most songs)

dude, emo is FULL of songs about broken dreams, forgotten dreams, lost dreams, unnattainable dreams...they are ALL OVER the place.

-the vague "contempation of suicide" (i never contemplated suicide in the song)

you're right; this was just me being mean without purpose. sorry.

missing a loved one (nobody misses loved ones nowadays. either way im not saying that in the song.)

you're wrong; every song about missing a girl or someone dead (thursday's "standing on the edge of summer", about his dead grandma or something (at least, i heard that's what it's about)) is a song about missing a loved one. If you try to tell me that "missing the girl" songs AREN'T about missing a loved one, something is wrong with you. Those songs are all over the place!

I've heard songs, not exactly about "pefection through sadness", but songs about becoming perfect by "hardening one's heart", "becoming more than human". (like shai hulud's "my heart bleeds the darkest blood", "love is the fall of every man", a lot more of their songs. A new trend in metalcore songs...there are a ton of these things, trust me.) Songs like that.

And lastly, it doesn't matter if your song has a real world basis or not, it matters:

a. how well your song can stand alone. this means that the song should make sense by itself, should be a self-contained piece that people can understand and appreciate without having to know the author very well. Songs like Thursday's "standing on the edge of summer" or "understanding in a car crash" are perfect examples. The first is a song about missing someone, nostalgia, regret...we can research it and find out that it's about geoff's dead grandma, but we don't need to know that to appreciate the song. "Understanding in a car crash" is like that, too. It is about a car accident, it seems, and maybe geoff was actually IN THAT CAR ACCIDENT, but the song still makes sense regardless of whether it is based on true events.

Your song, though, only makes sense when you explain its real-life influences (your motivation by fear of failure, your mom being gone, moving to the ocean--especially "moving to the ocean"). Without your explanations of your song, they don't make sense--i probably could've gathered the stuff about your mom, or at least SOME relative, not being there. I probably could infer the "reaching your dreams for fear of failure" idea. But the ocean line, that's pretty impossible to interpret with only the content of the song to guide me. You should make the song a seperate entity from your experiences and feelings, otherwise the song will be difficult to understand without knowing you personally.

it's like your feelings are the book and the song is the movie adaptation; it shouldn't be necessary to have read the book to understand the movie.

the ink reference- lyrics i write on my hands about what i want to become, sweating off

no one REALLY does this. You don't write "i want to be big and strong, i want to make money" or whatever on your hand. Just imagining a real person doing this is difficult, since it is just something odd. Imagining impossible things (like dragons or unicorns or whatever) is easy because we understand that they are fantasy creatures or fantastic ideas, but when you insert something like this ink reference, it's hard to relate to.

It's hard to relate to because the rest of the song is about human feelings and human habits, but no one really does this thing with the ink and the hands. If you ACTUALLY DO do that, well, i've just put my foot in my mouth, but it's still difficult for me to relate to you. You seem to try to communicate (usually dark) feelings in your songs, and this "ink on hands" expression takes me out of the feelings you're expressing because it is just plain odd in a way that doesn't help your song.


"as if looking to the sky
will help me out any
i'd rather look through a crowd of people
the resemblence is uncanny "

your explanation for this line (that your peers help more than god, or the sky) doesn't say the same thing that this line does. This part of the song says that people look like you, not that you find comfort in people more than comfort in god. Change the wording of this section of the song to better express your explanation for the line and it will be much stronger writing.

and lastly, your temper tantrum. xalexisonfirex, i doubt if many people on this site truly understand you or your ideas, but i also doubt that your pain is something so unique that it has only applied to you. Don't give me this crap about "you don't know me", because it's infantile and pathetic. If you don't want criticism of your songs, then you should just not post. By showing us your songs, you expose yourself to people's responses, whether bad or good. If all you want is praise and admiration for a song that I find UNWORTHY of praise or admiration, then here's what you do:

next time you only want people to say good things about your song, post that along with the song. I won't say anything but praises, I promise, and that way your delicate little emo feelings won't get hurt. We'll call it an "ego massage", okay?

[xAlexisonfirex]

see thats all good and fine wewin you actually post a fuckign itelligent response. until the last paragraph where you try to fucking insult me. THATS why i throw a "temper tantrum" i can sit all day ehre and refute what you have just said because i found alot in there that isn't right. BUT i have to pack.

maybe tomorrow or later tonight.

yes, my "little emo feelings" funny thing is im as far from a fucking emo kid as you can get inr eal life.

once again, don't make assumptions on me if you don't knwo me. and don't tell me what my song is about if you don't know.

later, god.

[wewin]

about as far from an emo kid as you can get...

...except for wallowing in misery and writing shitty songs.

sure, you're different and special and not emo at all

widdle puppy want an emo biscuit? aww! good puppy!

[xAlexisonfirex]

wewin, where do you live? i am really contemplating making a road trip just so i can fucking beat your ass. i don't like to the play the whole "e-tough guy" or "e-shit talker" like you do. but damn man, you are really pissing me off.

maybeoneday...ban him, all he's doing is trying to piss kids off.

[wewin]

dude, reply to my valid reply to your valid reply and quit taking the bait! you're better than that! ignore the insults and the meanness and tell me what you think of the criticism...


...bitch.

[Alex Djaferis]

Originally posted by wewin
dude, reply to my valid reply to your valid reply and quit taking the bait! you're better than that! ignore the insults and the meanness and tell me what you think of the criticism...


...bitch.


yo, i understand that u will find clichees in every song...but seriously, if things sounded like stuff from AFI, maybe it means that he is influenced by em. I know that all my lyrics are VERY similar to thrices material, not word by word, but the themes are similar, because thrice play such an important role for me they imprint ideas in my mind. Maybe its the same for him with stuff liek AFI

[wewin]

that's not really what i'm trying to say. The ideas and things he writes about, well, I don't personally think that they are very good.

But, it's what he likes to write about, I'm trying to deal with that. I'm trying to just show him how to write about it BETTER. In my mean, sarcastic, antagonistic sort-of way.

It's not about who his influences are, because people will emulate their idols. I guess if you're just rewording a thrice song and keeping the same idea, that's kind of weak, but I can understand borrowing stuff from them if it's presented in a new way.

however, if all we do is rephrase and borrow other stuff, it gets boring fast. that's why i'm trying to find something NEW to write about.

[Rufio217]

whats the point in you responding to anyone then, you hate everyones music but your own...

[BuriedAlive]

no wewin doesnt like only his songs. normally the ones he doesnt post on he knows are good. but i did get a good review from him once.