Marijuana's Role in the Arizona Shooting

[germypill]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-a-califano-jr/jared-laughner-marijuanas_b_810336.html

I have never heard of a link between marijuana and schizophrenia. I think it's all co-incidental. A google search will bring up more articles.

Discuss.

[<*)))><]

Ask Zion

[germypill]

I really only know who she is because I lurk on here. Maybe she will stop by.

[AdamJL]

I personally think that's ridiculous!
tfAoLLCfqK4

[saysmydoctor]

There was no role.

[Scrandon]

And it's safe to say,
there are darker things in the street these days
than darker skies and getting high.
Things that control our lives.

[zion the lion]

I've heard of the link between schizophrenia and marijuana plenty of times.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

"Reefer Madness" tried to make the link that marijuana use led to attempted rape, suicide, and insanity.

[COREhorizon]

I think other drugs besides weed would have more of an affect.

[Juan Jose]

I'd think that the weed would of calmed him down unless it was laced with some shit. But at the end of the day he was mentally disturbed even w/o the drugs

[ZeRo]

Wouldn't his Schizophrenia be more of a reason of him doing this than weed?

[Miketheunicycle]

i call a bluff

[meroki22]

Everyone knows Anti-Flag and junk food were the real culprits here/

[jwicklun]

x0YtPi2QZSY

[tkamB]

Its dem daggone violent video games ya hear?

[zion the lion]

I'd think that the weed would of calmed him down unless it was laced with some shit. But at the end of the day he was mentally disturbed even w/o the drugs

It's schizophrenia, not stress.

[Miketheunicycle]

i thought Grand Theft Auto was to blame

[nowFace]

I think other drugs besides weed would have more of an affect.

THIS. Sure too much weed is not healthy but cmon...cmon were talking about the boat our dream(stepbrothers reference)

[Sean Rizzo]

Wait, what? :-|

[sweepthenation]

I've heard of the link between schizophrenia and marijuana plenty of times.

You literally have no purpose on this planet except to piss off people on the internet

[CheckeredFloors]

Personally, I blame Marilyn Manson's Rock & Roll music.

[bandnamexmyname]

It's all Anti-Flag's fault, lolzzzzzzzzzzzz

[zion the lion]

You literally have no purpose on this planet except to piss off people on the internet

It's been my goal for about 15 years to join the peace corps or be a traveling nurse, but now that you've told me that I have no purpose on this planet except to piss people off on the internet, I guess I'll just give up on that goal. I had no clue my intention was to piss anybody off while I was in this thread, but thank you for telling me exactly what I was trying to do in here. Hell, I thought I was here because I have a very deep family history of schizophrenia and other serious mental illnesses and because I have it myself. But no, you're right, I thought I knew why I was in this thread but you know what my intentions are better than I do apparently.

[S7ranburgLar]

:nono:

[jawstheme]

This thread is retarded.

[sweepthenation]

It's been my goal for about 15 years to join the peace corps or be a traveling nurse, but now that you've told me that I have no purpose on this planet except to piss people off on the internet, I guess I'll just give up on that goal. I had no clue my intention was to piss anybody off while I was in this thread, but thank you for telling me exactly what I was trying to do in here. Hell, I thought I was here because I have a very deep family history of schizophrenia and other serious mental illnesses and because I have it myself. But no, you're right, I thought I knew why I was in this thread but you know what my intentions are better than I do apparently.

There can be no other explanation - you go into threads looking for things you can piss people off at, and making irrelevant comments that are certain to irk other users.

[zion the lion]

There can be no other explanation - you go into threads looking for things you can piss people off at, and making irrelevant comments that are certain to irk other users.

You must think that you're god if you think you know a thing about my intentions. And really? Irrelevant? Are you fucking blind? I'm pretty sure this thread is about drugs and mental illnesses and whether or not it had anything to do with someone killing other people. Last time I checked schizophrenia is a mental illness, if it isnt, please let me know. Quite frankly until you came in trying to change the subject to me, I didnt say anything that wasnt related to drugs or mental illnesses. At this point I think you're actually trying to piss me off.

[bandnamexmyname]

Uh oh.

[lfdfforever]

Propaganda is such a slap in the face to logical and reasonable people.

[samsara]

There can be no other explanation - you go into threads looking for things you can piss people off at, and making irrelevant comments that are certain to irk other users.

I hate to defend Zion but there has been a link between the two. I studied it for a drug and alcohol class. I don't think she joined the thread with the goal to piss you off. Fucking learn how to google shit before you attack someone.

[steve187]

That is literally retarded. I hate dumb people(and people who blindly believe dumb people).

[llwilliamsll]

"leads us now to conclude that cannabis use could increase the risk of psychotic illness."
Keyword 'could', meaning "Used to show the possibility that something might happen; Used to suggest something". So uncertainty. Give me a percentage of it being a possible risk for increasing psychotic illness.

three fourths had begun smoking pot before the onset of their mental illness and their schizophrenia appeared two years earlier than it did in those who did not smoke pot.
Fair enough, but regardless of using or not, the bold suggested schizophrenia set in? "hey you're going to have schizophrenia, but you can at least post-pone it!"

"he got involved with marijuana, and he was really into psychedelics."
Please list these psychedelics, because I've read LSD can trigger schizophrenia

If the police have any of the hair shaved from Loughner's head, they can easily find out if marijuana was in his system at the time of the shooting.
Pretty sure with hair tests, it can detect marijuana use up to how many ever weeks, months, whatever long time frame it is. Being that he was a chronic smoker (assumed from what was read in the article), if they did hair tests, it wouldn't automatically prove that it was in his system that day as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I may very well be.

Joseph A. Califano, Jr., Founder and Chair of The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University
I smell bias in this

I would be more concerned with how he obtained weapons rather than weed.


And in Zion's defense, what she said wasn't offensive at all. She stated that she's read/heard about it. How is that offensive?

[samsara]

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2005559,00.html

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/003851.html

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/003851.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vanessa-richmond/documentary-links-marijua_b_439595.html

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Psychiatry/Addictions/18722

People need to get off their high horse and realize that they don't know everything.

[armoireofdoom]

Pot does a lot more good than bad. It's just a ploy to take our minds off of the shooting and start another war on drugs.

[studskalny]

There can be no other explanation - you go into threads looking for things you can piss people off at, and making irrelevant comments that are certain to irk other users.

Dude, at this point it just seems like you're bitching because of the name. Sheesh. I think the only user that was 'irked' was you.

[PandaBear!]

I've heard of the link between schizophrenia and marijuana plenty of times.

Me too. "There's no smoke without fire" as they say, and there most likely is a link. Whether it's exaggerated for whatever purposes is a different matter.


Dude, at this point it just seems like you're bitching because of the name.

Very well said. This is the case with zion-attacking 90+% of the time...

[caveBEAR]

Marijuana was not the tipping point to his psyche.

[bandnamexmyname]

Marijuana increases your chances of schizophrenia.

[samsara]

Marijuana increases your chances of schizophrenia.

And it can increase psychosis.

[zion the lion]

Me too. "There's no smoke without fire" as they say, and there most likely is a link. Whether it's exaggerated for whatever purposes is a different matter.




Very well said. This is the case with zion-attacking 90+% of the time...

I dont get why people take anything that's negative about a drug (or whatever else they're doing) as propaganda.

[llwilliamsll]

I dont get why people take anything that's negative about a drug (or whatever else they're doing) as propaganda.

Should be easy to understand...

Sometimes it's not what people want to hear, so they throw out 'propaganda' as a defense mechanism.


At the same time, it's hard to decipher between someone saying something as a ploy to shoot down the drug (cannabis specifically) and truth since the whole 'war on drug' has been filled with false accusations.

Regardless, I believe it was the gun that killed and wounded, not the drug. It's possible drugs played a role in this, but his ability to obtain firearms should be more of a concern.

[ace1112]

the government and their anti weed propaganda....

[zion the lion]

Should be easy to understand...

Sometimes it's not what people want to hear, so they throw out 'propaganda' as a defense mechanism.


At the same time, it's hard to decipher between someone saying something as a ploy to shoot down the drug (cannabis specifically) and truth since the whole 'war on drug' has been filled with false accusations.

Regardless, I believe it was the gun that killed and wounded, not the drug. It's possible drugs played a role in this, but his ability to obtain firearms should be more of a concern.

He would have found a way to kill with or without the gun. My problem is that nobody got him as much help as he needed, and after the dust settles with this whole thing, people will go on ignoring all the signs and not giving a shit about the next person until its too late.

[sweepthenation]

You must think that you're god if you think you know a thing about my intentions. And really? Irrelevant? Are you fucking blind? I'm pretty sure this thread is about drugs and mental illnesses and whether or not it had anything to do with someone killing other people. Last time I checked schizophrenia is a mental illness, if it isnt, please let me know. Quite frankly until you came in trying to change the subject to me, I didnt say anything that wasnt related to drugs or mental illnesses. At this point I think you're actually trying to piss me off.

Glad to know it worked.

[Thriftstoresuit]

stupid theory, everyones fault.

[llwilliamsll]

He would have found a way to kill with or without the gun. My problem is that nobody got him as much help as he needed, and after the dust settles with this whole thing, people will go on ignoring all the signs and not giving a shit about the next person until its too late.

well you're preaching to the choir there.

[Thriftstoresuit]

Regardless of whether or not marijuana exacerbates mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, it had absolutely nothing to do with this shooting.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

He would have found a way to kill with or without the gun. My problem is that nobody got him as much help as he needed, and after the dust settles with this whole thing, people will go on ignoring all the signs and not giving a shit about the next person until its too late.

I'm sure this has been pointed out, but Arizona Governor Jan Brewer cut funding for mental health services (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/us/21mental.html?partner=rss&emc=rss), which is a shame since her own son was diagnosed with schizophrenia. But hey, it's all for balancing the budget.

[Machu505]

Well, this is dumb.

[industrialbelt]

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

ok, are we done here?

[cabezadewebo]

And it can increase psychosis.

From an article you posted:

But here's the conundrum: while marijuana went from being a secret shared by a small community of hepcats and beatniks in the 1940s and '50s to a rite of passage for some 70% of youth by the turn of the century, rates of schizophrenia in the U.S. have remained flat, or possibly declined. For as long as it has been tracked, schizophrenia has been found to affect about 1% of the population. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2005559,00.html#ixzz1Bjl5Lvy 7


All of the articles you posted stated that heavy marijuana use amongst adolescents could increase marijuana. However, kids shouldn't be allowed to smoke if they are under 18 anyway, any heavy drug or alcohol use under a certain age affects the development of your brain ( I believe your brain is still in development until latest 25 years old).

[vivatoto56]

Everyone needs a joint to calm down.

[saysmydoctor]

There was no role.
Seriously, this was the end of the thread.

[germypill]

/thread!

[yellowhouse]

Why do they have to bring weed into this? Pretty sure that's not the culprit, even if there is a link between the two. Way to focus on something that's completely irrelevant to the situation.

[yellowhouse]

Everyone needs a joint to calm down.

Haha, this

[saturday_snow_squall]

definitely video games!

[boxingwithstars]

Guns don't kill people, schizophrenic people who smoke weed kill people.

[sjb2k1]

most potheads, after smoking, make a trip to the fridge for a Coke and snacks...not grab a Glock and head for a Congresswoman.

[Ollie McKraut]

marijuana? have we forgotten about referential inflammatory campaign rhetoric?

[perceptrons]

This thread was hilarious. I don't think marijuana played a role in the attack, but the way everyone reacted when it was even suggested that there could be a link at all between the two (i.e. schizophrenia and marijuana), was laughable. Settle down children.

[germypill]

This thread was hilarious. I don't think marijuana played a role in the attack, but the way everyone reacted when it was even suggested that there could be a link at all between the two (i.e. schizophrenia and marijuana), was laughable. Settle down children.

But the voices in my head are telling me to pack another bowl!

[ReadyForAction]

I'm planning smoking tonight so I'm getting a kick out of these replies. I wish Zion would stop being such a bitch with her reasonable discussions and shit, who the fuck does she think she is

[UnderMyDreams]

They also want to blame Anti-Flag. Pathetic.

[Jet Set Paul]

I've heard of the link between marijuana use and schizophrenia before from fairly credible scientific sources. While pot smoking does not cause schizophrenia studies have shown that it can bring about an early onset of the illness among those who are predisposed to it. In Loughner's case, he probably would have been affected by schizophrenia sooner or later regardless of whether or not he had smoked weed. I bet the psychedelic drugs he was using played a much larger role in the severity of his mental illness, though.

Sure, it's kind of ridiculous to blame the shooting on "the devil's lettuce", but some of the points made in the article are valid. While marijuana (in my opinion) is far less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco, it's not entirely harmless.

[jm105483]

deplorable

[TinMan20]

it was marilyn mansons music, duh.

[thesollopsist]

won't somebody think of the children!

[Prestonxsmith]

Kid had some serious problems. If anything, he did it because of some bullshit political rhetoric he fed to himself. Weed had nothing to do with the incident that occurred.

[StephenYoung]

Totes never smoking again.

[Bsprint5000]

i've scanned all the posts and i didn't see anyone write about this and I want to preface this post by saying that in no way am I taking a stab at Max Bemis because I've idolized him since high school and I'm a fan of all music he has produced. But I just pulled out an old issue of Alternative Press, # 194 to be specific, and there is a short piece on Say Anything. I reckon this article was published as ...is a real boy was gaining some momentum. But in the article Max states that "all he did was smoke pot" and that he went crazy because he smoked "too much bad pot." I think everyone in this thread is aware of Max's bout with mental illness. Granted Max channeled his struggles into his music, but I found it surprising that no one on the site made a comment in reference to his mental illness and marijuana. If someone already made a comment in regards to this I apologize for being redundant.

On a side note, I would label myself a regular marijuana user, although I haven't puffed in 4 days as I'm trying to get my urine clean.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

i've scanned all the posts and i didn't see anyone write about this and I want to preface this post by saying that in no way am I taking a stab at Max Bemis because I've idolized him since high school and I'm a fan of all music he has produced. But I just pulled out an old issue of Alternative Press, # 194 to be specific, and there is a short piece on Say Anything. I reckon this article was published as ...is a real boy was gaining some momentum. But in the article Max states that "all he did was smoke pot" and that he went crazy because he smoked "too much bad pot." I think everyone in this thread is aware of Max's bout with mental illness. Granted Max channeled his struggles into his music, but I found it surprising that no one on the site made a comment in reference to his mental illness and marijuana. If someone already made a comment in regards to this I apologize for being redundant.

On a side note, I would label myself a regular marijuana user, although I haven't puffed in 4 days as I'm trying to get my urine clean.

I understand what you're getting at and I'm probably remembering the same article circa 2004, but I don't believe his pot use/mental stability at the time created violent tendencies (which is the case of Loughner). If anything, didn't Max admit that he used pot to cope with his bi-polar disorder?

[Bsprint5000]

I wasn't under the impression Max used pot to cope with his illness, but what do I know. I kind of got the vibe that he smoked A LOT of weed and he felt that it might have had an impact on his mental illness. But again, all I really know is what I've read over the years in mags and on sites like these.

But yea it doesn't make sense that violent behavior would be caused from marijuana use seeing as it's always associated with hippies and the "summer of love." I haven't done much research on the permanent mental effects of smoking marijuana. I figured I would just throw the Max thing out there since his pot smoking and mental illness have received a lot of attention.

And I'm not gonna lie, I rarely post on here so I figured my post might get this thread trending haha.

[samsara]

I understand what you're getting at and I'm probably remembering the same article circa 2004, but I don't believe his pot use/mental stability at the time created violent tendencies (which is the case of Loughner). If anything, didn't Max admit that he used pot to cope with his bi-polar disorder?

I remember reading the article. But he said that at first it was calming but then it made him paranoid and made his mood swings more intense.

[rawesome]

I feel like this argument would hold more weight if the article didn't specifically mention that he'd experimented with psychedelics before, which do have the capability of causing serious mental disorders if one has an especially bad trip. That alone could be enough to make him mad if the experience were really negative.

[Drow Swordsman]

There was no role.

This. I don't believe those statistics for a minute, 44 out of 121 people who smoke pot get schizophrenia?

Okay.

[lazyman]

I've heard of the link between schizophrenia and marijuana plenty of times.

me too. SXE for life.

[thisisunsafe]

This. I don't believe those statistics for a minute, 44 out of 121 people who smoke pot get schizophrenia?

Okay.

THIS.

[Scrandon]

This. I don't believe those statistics for a minute, 44 out of 121 people who smoke pot get schizophrenia?

Okay.
The statistics are correct. It still doesn't mean that marijuana causes schizophrenia. Also, many people with schizophrenia can function just fine.

[Drow Swordsman]

The statistics are correct. It still doesn't mean that marijuana causes schizophrenia. Also, many people with schizophrenia can function just fine.

After reading the article again, I'm not in such disagreement with them. It seems the study had a lot more thought involved than choosing 121 people off the street to smoke pot. Did they choose psychosis patients? The article isn't very clear which lead to my earlier confusion.

[saysmydoctor]

This. I don't believe those statistics for a minute, 44 out of 121 people who smoke pot get schizophrenia?

Okay.
The statistics are accurate, but it doesn't mean smoking pot had anything to do with this.

[KingsCrossing]

I've heard of the link between marijuana use and schizophrenia before from fairly credible scientific sources. While pot smoking does not cause schizophrenia studies have shown that it can bring about an early onset of the illness among those who are predisposed to it. In Loughner's case, he probably would have been affected by schizophrenia sooner or later regardless of whether or not he had smoked weed. I bet the psychedelic drugs he was using played a much larger role in the severity of his mental illness, though.

Sure, it's kind of ridiculous to blame the shooting on "the devil's lettuce", but some of the points made in the article are valid. While marijuana (in my opinion) is far less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco, it's not entirely harmless.

Pretty much this.

[Sunken In]

Fucking stupid.

[Orpheus42]

The Governments way of trying to keep marijuana from being legalized.

[zion the lion]

This. I don't believe those statistics for a minute, 44 out of 121 people who smoke pot get schizophrenia?

Okay.

Think about the hundreds of millions of people who smoke pot. Whether it's linked or not, there are definitely going to be people who will end up with schizophrenia in the pot smoking population.

[saysmydoctor]

Think about the hundreds of millions of people who smoke pot. Whether it's linked or not, there are definitely going to be people who will end up with schizophrenia in the pot smoking population.
There are definitely some people who are going to lead long, successful lives as well.

[deanster321]

Carl Sagan alone made up for all the people who may have done stupid things as a result of smoking pot.

[zion the lion]

There are definitely some people who are going to lead long, successful lives as well.

Uh...okay? I dont think anyone said a thing about the success or lifespan of pot smokers.

[Drow Swordsman]

Think about the hundreds of millions of people who smoke pot. Whether it's linked or not, there are definitely going to be people who will end up with schizophrenia in the pot smoking population.

I didn't debate that, I debated that 36.3% of pot smokers develop schizophrenia (44/121 x 100%). To use that as a blanket statistic is false. However once I re-read the times article that spoke more about the study, it seemed more involved with people who either had psychosis or were more prone to develop psychosis/schizophrenia, in which case those numbers made sense.

[saysmydoctor]

Uh...okay? I dont think anyone said a thing about the success or lifespan of pot smokers.
Yeah, you didn't get it. Go elsewhere. No one is interested in your sob story about you and your psychosis or whatever it is you're currently whining about in this thread.

[zion the lion]

Yeah, you didn't get it. Go elsewhere. No one is interested in your sob story about you and your psychosis or whatever it is you're currently whining about in this thread.

No I got it, you tried to make it seem like I'm just a stickler for the war on drugs, like I'm implying that absolutely everyone who smokes pot is a lazy piece of shit waste of space. Maybe if you took the time to pay attention to anything in this thread other than your hostility towards me you would have notice that I havent told a sob story, I havent whined, I havent said a thing wrong, if anything, I've stayed incredibly neutral. Get over yourself for just long enough to actually read what I'm saying instead of just jumping to whatever half baked shitty conclusion that you've come up with.

[AgainstTheCurrent]

Blame pot's involvement with this as much as you want (which is non-existent) but there are two reasons this happened.

1. he's a loony
2. his frighteningly easy access he had to guns.

[AgainstTheCurrent]

The statistics are accurate, but it doesn't mean smoking pot had anything to do with this.

Every time I see your avatar, I read your posts in snoop's voice. He would totally say what you're saying too, haha

[Burn That Shit]

was too lazy to read through the thread, but it is true that cannabis can bring out mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia, but only if you already have them. the same goes for pretty much any psychedelic.

does cannabis really have a role in this shooting? no.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

was too lazy to read through the thread, but it is true that cannabis can bring out mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia, but only if you already have them. the same goes for pretty much any psychedelic.

does cannabis really have a role in this shooting? no.

Marijuana had as much as a role in this as did Twinkies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkie_defense) in the assassination of of San Francisco Mayor George Mascone and City Supervisor Harvey Milk in 1979