Daytona 500

[Scott Weber]

i have an uncle who works for NBC in chicago and wvwn with his time zone complaina about east coast bias. anyway i can give you guys a really brief outline.

Millions of people turn on their televisions at 8:00 PM and millions more at 9:00 PM, this corresponds with the completion of family dinner time. this is true even though it may sound suspect. the viewership of tv beginning at 8:00 is significantly higher than that at previous hours. 8:00 and 9:00 are the most expensive and most sought after time slots for television programming.

Monda night football was created as a result of this statistic and their time slot on the east coast is the basis for much of their revenue
Well, the central time zone is a whole different story. Nobody is arguing the basic numbers with you, I don't think you understand that. I think it's safe to say that we all know, and agree, that the majority of people watch TV on weeknights from 8-10pm. So why does only 45 minutes of Monday Night football fall in that time range in the east coast? And why is it the least important part of the game? It's because they can't start it at 7 or 8pm, because they'd get killed in ratings on the west coast. Is that making any sense to you? (No snide tone of voice intended)

[Scott Weber]

most sporting events on the east coast do start at 7 or 8, other than monday night football, which starts at 9

edit: meant to quote scott there
That's because they are local events relative to the time zone. Most games start around 7 or 7:30 here too. But we're not talking about local stuff, we're talking about national events.

[get high]

im completely comfortbale with what i'm saying about MNF, but to bring up another point, as i was saying, most natioanlly televised events that will start at 7, 8, or 9 here - are aired at 4, 5, or 6 on the west coast, does this make sense to you? this is about east coast primetime at its most basic level

[get high]

also scott, if you look at viewership of most any sporting event anywhere, the highest viewership will be at the beginnign of the event. noone wants to come in in the middle not knowing what is going on. ratings tend to gradually decline throughout an event on average

[Scott Weber]

im completely comfortbale with what i'm saying about MNF, but to bring up another point, as i was saying, most natioanlly televised events that will start at 7, 8, or 9 here - are aired at 4, 5, or 6 on the west coast, does this make sense to you? this is about east coast primetime at its most basic level
Can you offer some examples that are on weeknights? I know things like the Oscars air at 8 there and 5 here, but those are on Sundays, which primetime is less important on, especially with destination television events.

I'd also like you to address the MNF situation clearly, because I feel I made some very good points about it that you've glossed over - I'm not sure if you can't refute them, or if you don't want to, but either way I'd like some sort of counter-argument.

[nfggc10]

im completely comfortbale with what i'm saying about MNF, but to bring up another point, as i was saying, most natioanlly televised events that will start at 7, 8, or 9 here - are aired at 4, 5, or 6 on the west coast, does this make sense to you? this is about east coast primetime at its most basic level7:00 is a huge stretch and no playoff games or championship games (besides the SB of course) start before 8. But by the time intros are done and everything else the games don't actually start till 8:15 or 8:30 which is way too late when these games last about 3 hours. Just look at how late Florida/OSU started for the prime example of how ridiculous start times are for the east coast. If anything we get screwed for live sporting events and the west coast is rarely affected since games will either start as they're getting home for work or at 7 which is ideal.

[Scott Weber]

also scott, if you look at viewership of most any sporting event anywhere, the highest viewership will be at the beginnign of the event. noone wants to come in in the middle not knowing what is going on. ratings tend to gradually decline throughout an event on average
That's definitely true, but would that be the case if the game started at 8pm on the east coast and 5pm here? Not at all, because people wouldn't have a choice but to come into the game late. Does that make sense? The east coast time is still later than it would like to be because of west coast restraints.

[Scott Weber]

7:00 is a huge stretch and no playoff games or championship games (besides the SB of course) start before 8. But by the time intros are done and everything else the games don't actually start till 8:15 or 8:30 which is way too late when these games last about 3 hours. Just look at how late Florida/OSU started for the prime example of how ridiculous start times are for the east coast. If anything we get screwed for live sporting events and the west coast is rarely affected since games will either start as they're getting home for work or at 7 which is ideal.
Yes, I completely agree. One of the reasons, as a sports fan, I'm so glad I live on the west coast.

[nfggc10]

also scott, if you look at viewership of most any sporting event anywhere, the highest viewership will be at the beginnign of the event. noone wants to come in in the middle not knowing what is going on. ratings tend to gradually decline throughout an event on average
I think you have to look at those numbers though to see why ratings drop off. Whether it's the loss of east viewers due to the lateness of starting times or whether the games themselves are close enough to keep the number of viewers high. I also find flaws in your argument that no one wants to come in the middle of a game and start watching. If anything you could argue that the beginning of games tend to drag while the endings have the most compelling action and memorable moments. And it's easy to come half way into something and catch up on the score and they show a few highlights to how it got to that point. I've never had a problem catching up on something if I was out doing something and missed the start.

[nfggc10]

Yes, I completely agree. One of the reasons, as a sports fan, I'm so glad I live on the west coast.And one of the reasons why I miss living out there. Nothing better than watching sports all afternoon/early evening and then still having the rest of the night open.

[Scott Weber]

I think you have to look at those numbers though to see why ratings drop off. Whether it's the loss of east viewers due to the lateness of starting times or whether the games themselves are close enough to keep the number of viewers high. I also find flaws in your argument that no one wants to come in the middle of a game and start watching. If anything you could argue that the beginning of games tend to drag while the endings have the most compelling action and memorable moments. And it's easy to come half way into something and catch up on the score and they show a few highlights to how it got to that point. I've never had a problem catching up on something if I was out doing something and missed the start.
Yeah, I agree with that too. In fact, I have no problem going out to dinner with my girlfriend as long as I can catch the 2nd half of a game - I don't feel like that's an uncommon thing to happen at all.

P.S. - I like this debate, and I like how it started kind of heated (a lot of it by me) and it settled into a really respectful, informative debate.

[get high]

i can maybe see some slight sense of compromise in MNF because if you think about it, the only 2 logical starting times would be 8 and 9 o'clock considering work schedules and dinner times. which are two of the determining facotrs of timeslot price and ratings. as i said before, these are the times when the great majority flip on their tv. if they started the game at 8 eastern standard time, it would be 5 on the west coast and you could harldly consider that monday "NIGHT" football. most people are still at work at that point. 9 is likely somewhat of a compromise but that is still 6 on the west, which is struggling ratings time comparatively

[nfggc10]

Yeah, I agree with that too. In fact, I have no problem going out to dinner with my girlfriend as long as I can catch the 2nd half of a game - I don't feel like that's an uncommon thing to happen at all.

P.S. - I like this debate, and I like how it started kind of heated (a lot of it by me) and it settled into a really respectful, informative debate.Definitely. I do that with basketball games the most just because games are usually fairly close during the first half so you're never missing much. For MNF, I think the smartest thing that they're doing with the model is that they capitalize on the east coast prime time slot for the first quarter/half and then the second half falls perfectly in line with west coast primetime. Again, if anything it caters more to the west coast because the most important part lies with their primary window of viewership.


And yeah I'm surprised too that we've managed to keep this a civil argument which is a nice change of pace.

[Scott Weber]

i can maybe see some slight sense of compromise in MNF because if you think about it, the only 2 logical starting times would be 8 and 9 o'clock considering work schedules and dinner times. which are two of the determining facotrs of timeslot price and ratings. as i said before, these are the times when the great majority flip on their tv. if they started the game at 8 eastern standard time, it would be 5 on the west coast and you could harldly consider that monday "NIGHT" football. most people are still at work at that point. 9 is likely somewhat of a compromise but that is still 6 on the west, which is struggling ratings time comparatively
Well, coverage starts at 5:30 here. So...it's still hardly Monday Night Football, really - but neither is Sunday Night Football, which starts at 5. It's night in that it's not when it starts per say, but when it's important - the 2nd half usually doesn't start until 7:30, and then it definitely is night by any stretch of the mind. There's no need to be a broken record about when the majority of people watch TV - we get it. But another thing is, MNF is a destination television event, and I really think that it's not hurt by the early start as much as you might think. Football fans are going to watch the game anyways, and here on the west coast, we've never known it as anything BUT starting at 6pm, so it's not even an issue of primetime - that's just when the game's on. We all know it, we all adjust to it...I think that sentiment has got to be a little more widespread than you're assuming.
Definitely. I do that with basketball games the most just because games are usually fairly close during the first half so you're never missing much. For MNF, I think the smartest thing that they're doing with the model is that they capitalize on the east coast prime time slot for the first quarter/half and then the second half falls perfectly in line with west coast primetime. Again, if anything it caters more to the west coast because the most important part lies with their primary window of viewership.


And yeah I'm surprised too that we've managed to keep this a civil argument which is a nice change of pace.
Yeah - I definitely agree with this.

[nfggc10]

Well, coverage starts at 5:30 here. So...it's still hardly Monday Night Football, really - but neither is Sunday Night Football, which starts at 5. It's night in that it's not when it starts per say, but when it's important - the 2nd half usually doesn't start until 7:30, and then it definitely is night by any stretch of the mind. There's no need to be a broken record about when the majority of people watch TV - we get it. But another thing is, MNF is a destination television event, and I really think that it's not hurt by the early start as much as you might think. Football fans are going to watch the game anyways, and here on the west coast, we've never known it as anything BUT starting at 6pm, so it's not even an issue of primetime - that's just when the game's on. We all know it, we all adjust to it...I think that sentiment has got to be a little more widespread than you're assuming.And to further that a bit, I can guarantee that the number of east coasters upset about starting times is exponentially greater than west coasters. When I lived out there, people really weren't that concerned about missing the first 30-45 minutes of a game because they knew the majority/important parts were still ahead for them. And for east coast teams going out west or great stories that happen to occur on west coast teams, they're almost impossible to follow. The east coast bias is, of course, more due to the fact most of the media/public never see west coast teams which is a shame. This timing leads to more ignorance over here than anything else and I hate not being able to watch important games happening out there. For example, regardless of how much I dislike him, the chances of me being awake when Bonds breaks the record is pretty remote. Just unfortunate that I have to see/read about these great things the following morning rather than watching them at a more convenient time.

[get high]

one thing i'm sure we can all agree on though is that the east coast of the U.S. is worlds better in every way than the west coast

[Scott Weber]

Man, just when I thought we were going to have intelligent discussion the rest of the way through...

[nfggc10]

one thing i'm sure we can all agree on though is that the east coast of the U.S. is worlds better in every way than the west coasthaha wish I could agree.

[get high]

i'm joking obviously. you really cant make a good comparison, they are two entirely different entities. personally, i don't even like the country much at all, mainly the people....nothing personal, and am looking forward to moving back europe in a couple years. i am completely americanized by this point but i just prefer europe to the states. im tired of it here