Criminalizing Poverty

[Love As Arson]

In early January, the Michigan Department of Human Services (DHS), with the assistance of the police, fire department and emergency medical services, used an axe to force their way into the home of Wanda Scott and her father Walter. Their purpose was to remove the 95-year-old Walter from the home, following the discovery by the agency that the family did not have heat.
Local utility DTE Energy had shut off service to the family for an overdue bill of $8,000. The Scotts, who have electricity in the home, use a space heater in the bedroom to stay warm. However, the rest of the house is frigid, and in the past few weeks, temperatures have fallen as low as 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
Wanda, 51, has been Walter’s official caregiver for the last 20 years. She is now accused of neglect—a charge she strenuously denies—because she cannot afford to heat their home. The DHS refuses to grant Wanda the right to visit or speak with her father.
Instead of assisting families victimized by DTE’s state-approved policy of terminating utility service for non-payment, the state of Michigan persecutes them.

http://wsws.org/articles/2011/feb2011/scot-f10.shtml

[sjb2k1]

well that made me feel uncomfortable.

but But they would not accept a payment plan. They said that we had to pay up the bill.”i'm pretty sure you could send a utility company 37 cents and they'd cash the check. feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

[xapplexpiex]

One of the many reasons I'm not proud to say I'm from Detroit.

[Love As Arson]

well that made me feel uncomfortable.

but i'm pretty sure you could send a utility company 37 cents and they'd cash the check. feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
Energy companies can choose to deny people payment plans, either if they feel as though those making the requests make too much money or because they're interested in getting people to pay large sums all at once. This is anecdotal evidence, but my mother and I paid the energy company five hundred dollars and they still turned off our gas and electricity, then we had to pay an additional five hundred dollars two weeks later and wait another two weeks for the company to turn on the power, which we were billed for.

[sjb2k1]

Energy companies can choose to deny people payment plans, either if they feel as though those making the requests make too much money or because they're interested in getting people to pay large sums all at once. This is anecdotal evidence, but my mother and I paid the energy company five hundred dollars and they still turned off our gas and electricity, then we had to pay an additional five hundred dollars two weeks later and wait another two weeks for the company to turn on the power, which we were billed for.
jesus dude. i don't even know what to say to that.

[re7ard1337]

wow, this is unreal.

[loveisdead]

This seems totally inhumane.

[Republicanman]

If energy companies were privatized (and deregulated), these things would be less prone to happen.

[saysmydoctor]

Energy companies can choose to deny people payment plans, either if they feel as though those making the requests make too much money or because they're interested in getting people to pay large sums all at once. This is anecdotal evidence, but my mother and I paid the energy company five hundred dollars and they still turned off our gas and electricity, then we had to pay an additional five hundred dollars two weeks later and wait another two weeks for the company to turn on the power, which we were billed for.
I wasn't aware of this, I thought New York was the standard, where energy companies are legally obligated no turn off power during times of extreme weather and they must provide you with the option of a payment plan prior to discontinuing your service. I was on the payment plan for a few months.

As for the original post, that's shocking. And it's interestingly timed, because it comes just after the White House put LIHEAP on the cutting board.

[crackedthesky]

If energy companies were privatized (and deregulated), these things would be less prone to happen.

Yeah, because a private bank has never forclosed on someone's home after refusing to let the inhabitants pay for it, before.

Seriously, how the fuck does "make it so they don't have to follow rules" solve the problem? Or any fucking problem in the world, for that matter?

[Love As Arson]

I wasn't aware of this, I thought New York was the standard, where energy companies are legally obligated no turn off power during times of extreme weather and they must provide you with the option of a payment plan prior to discontinuing your service. I was on the payment plan for a few months.

As for the original post, that's shocking. And it's interestingly timed, because it comes just after the White House put LIHEAP on the cutting itboard.
In our case, we were on a payment plan and paid the day before the scheduled disconnection of the power. At the time, our elderly aunt was living with us and, even with her in the house, they still turned it off. Aside from that, they're only obligated to offer you a payment plan once and they decided whether or not it has been broken; their discretion also receives primacy with regard to the weather.

[Nevuk]

Ugh, I've dealt with this some lately sorta. The place I was living at before this one was burned down via a combination of worker neglect and other shit. Our bill was two days late so the water company shut off our water, then we repaid the bill and they turned it on (like 40$ disconnect fee). Then they sent out a worker to turn it back on and it seemed ok. The next day we had no water, we complained to the company and they claimed that the water was frozen and it was not their responsibility to fix it. We inform the landlord, and for two weeks he sends workers who point an industrial heater at the house for 8 hours a day. They leave it running and go to the other frozen places, as that's a lot of time to just sit and stare at our house. We talked to the water company multiple times about it, every time they consistently claimed that there was NO possibility of it EVER being their fault and they could take no action. I asked them if they could provide a list of people who worked in town on the issue .... they say they are unable to provide such a list legally.

Anyways eventually the house catches fire, I lose about 900$ worth of things, etc. The issue the entire time was that the water meter was bad. The landlord claims that he's only somewhat at fault due to that and all he does is give a discount on the next place we rent at. So fun times.

[S7ranburgLar]

wait, so the power company is state-run?
that doesn't look good.

[crackedthesky]

Just so you guys know, DTE is a private company, not government-funded.

[plyb]

If energy companies were privatized (and deregulated), these things would be less prone to happen.
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't California do this and it turned into a disaster, with rolling blackouts/ect, with companies like Enron totally abusing it?

[Debut_Fin]

This seems totally inhumane.

Your avatar is beautiful

[zion the lion]

I really feel for people who are completely broke and trying to take care of their parents. When we did live in a place, the worst that I remember happening to me, my mom, and my grandma was the power being cut off. I dont think Alaska cuts off heat, which is weird because the winters where I live are/used to be tamer than the winters in the midwest.

Taking a man with Alzheimer's away from the person whose been taking care of him for the last two decades is really fucked up. The fact that he was crying out for her at night in the hospital is heartbreaking. They need to at least let her talk to him and see him. The woman was actually trying, she didnt just say fuck it and leave her dad there, someone promised to help her and instead they reported her.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't California do this and it turned into a disaster, with rolling blackouts/ect, with companies like Enron totally abusing it?

You really stole my thunder. I was going to say that and seem totally smart.

[kidinthebushes]

When Obamacare starts up we won't have to worry about this.

[upthepunx]

this seems like only part of the story. i'm sure there is another side to this.

[Burn That Shit]

If energy companies were privatized (and deregulated), these things would be less prone to happen.

When Obamacare starts up we won't have to worry about this.

this seems like only part of the story. i'm sure there is another side to this.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1426/1282512869098.jpg

[Broken Parachute]

Not to deviate from the purpose of the thread, but it's stories like this that truly make me appreciate the fact that I have heat in my home. Sometimes I forget that it's a privilege to have things like that compared to some people. As corny as that sounds, it's true.

[Republicanman]

Yeah, because a private bank has never forclosed on someone's home after refusing to let the inhabitants pay for it, before.

Seriously, how the fuck does "make it so they don't have to follow rules" solve the problem? Or any fucking problem in the world, for that matter?

There's no such thing as a private bank. You can thank the Federal Reserve for that. The entire reason banks have been able to do such things is because of the massive accounting fraud done by our central bank to ensure that those banks could continue to make shoddy loans to consumers. I'm no fan of banks in general, nor the fractional reserve system.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't California do this and it turned into a disaster, with rolling blackouts/ect, with companies like Enron totally abusing it?

I'm not familiar with it, to be honest, but Enron was in bed with the federal government (promoting the global warming scare) for a long time before the scandals occured.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1426/1282512869098.jpg

Ah, nice to see you're "that guy" in the thread.

[Love As Arson]

Private industry being what it is, one would likely endure more shut-offs.

[Republicanman]

Do you have any actual substance to back that statement up? Of course, the heart of your phrase is "Private industry being what it is". But really, what is most private industry today if not simply a collusion of regulations, subsidies, anti-trust legislation, and licensing?

In a free market (ceteris paribus), consumers will find whatever subjectively pleases them, and flock to it. It's easy for this scenario to happen in our current system; the customer has no one else to go to.

[Mibabalou]

guy should get a job

[captivewear]

If energy companies were privatized (and deregulated), these things would be less prone to happen.
Unless you are filthy rich and own a huge company deregulation only hurts America. Give me ONE example of deregualtion that has helped the US and all the people that live in the US.
I'm waiting...
While I am waiting for you, I will give you one example (of hundreds if not thousands) of reasons why deregulation hurts the US. One of the biggest downfalls in the history of the US happened because of a form of deregulation. The reason why we are in such a bad economy right now is because of the lack of regulating of the financial district. Banks giving away $800,000 loans to someone who only makes $25,000 a year. We looked the other way while Wall st raped the American people's wallets. Deregulation leads to the consumer (you and me) getting screwed in the long run because companies can do what they want and get away with it. Which leads to Monopolies, outsourcing of US jobs, lower wages, lower product quality, poor customer service and eventually higher prices. Think I am wrong? See the oil industry...

[Love As Arson]

Do you have any actual substance to back that statement up?

As opposed to this substantive statement:

If energy companies were privatized (and deregulated), these things would be less prone to happen.

Do you have any actual substance to back that statement up? Of course, the heart of your phrase is "Private industry being what it is". But really, what is most private industry today if not simply a collusion of regulations, subsidies, anti-trust legislation, and licensing?

In a free market (ceteris paribus), consumers will find whatever subjectively pleases them, and flock to it. It's easy for this scenario to happen in our current system; the customer has no one else to go to.
The meaning of my statement was actually referring to the profit motive. If utilities were completely privatized, then we'd see a lot more people's gas and electric being shut off because their circumstances do not have to be taken into account, only whether or not the company is making money; people like yourself would argue that regulation of when and in what circumstances a company would be prohibited from shutting of people's power, is an infringement on the rights of the business.

[crackedthesky]

There's no such thing as a private bank. You can thank the Federal Reserve for that. The entire reason banks have been able to do such things is because of the massive accounting fraud done by our central bank to ensure that those banks could continue to make shoddy loans to consumers. I'm no fan of banks in general, nor the fractional reserve system.


What's the name of our "central bank?"
And you're wrong anyway. Government rules did not force the bank to take our house away. They did it because they could get away with it. how would making them follow fewer rules fix that? You think they'd suddenly start operating out of the goodness of their hearts? They did it for a profit. Making them operate with more focus on profit isn't going to make them behave. That's probably one of the most ridiculous notions I've ever heard, and there isn't a single preceded for it. If you can find me some company that was regulated and screwed people over on a regular basis, and then stopped once they were deregulated (as the banks were, ironically) I might change my mind.
But you won't, because you can't.

[deFobbed14yrs]

This is where the law goes wrong..........

"Wanda said that DTE had refused over the course of the years to put the family on a payment plan because Walter’s income, which consists of social security and a small pension, was too high."

Disgusting

and she is not the only one fucked

http://socialequality.com/caus

[Scrandon]

Do you have any actual substance to back that statement up? Of course, the heart of your phrase is "Private industry being what it is". But really, what is most private industry today if not simply a collusion of regulations, subsidies, anti-trust legislation, and licensing?

In a free market (ceteris paribus), consumers will find whatever subjectively pleases them, and flock to it. It's easy for this scenario to happen in our current system; the customer has no one else to go to.
You do realize that monopolies occur in a free market right? And that, if anything, the government actually works to prevent the formation of monopolies and cartels, as well as other non-competitive behavior.

[jawstheme]

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1426/1282512869098.jpg

Lol'd for like 5 minutes.

[domotime2]

eric cartman is in charge?