Lovedrug Addresses Downloadville Again

[Steve Henderson]

To elaborate on the intense reaction to their earlier statement (http://tinyurl.com/38whnl) on downloading music, Michael of Lovedrug (http://www.myspace.com/lovedrug) has posted a lengthy, informative follow-up (http://tinyurl.com/3yfh7t) on the band's blog. Discuss in the replies.

[Steve Henderson]

Seriously, anyone arguing with this is an asshole and an idiot. If there is an artist and an album worth buying, it is Lovedrug's new record. Buy it on sale March 6th when it drops, or pick it up NOW on their tour.

[emotionisdd]

Michael's said most everything I could have added to the discussion, really...

[NationalProduct]

i 180 billion % agree with him. Great fuckin blog. go love drug

[PaintMeBlue]

wow...that made so much sense. there's nothing there to argue against. every point he makes is so valid. i absolutely love this band and will be for sure picking it up so they can make more cds.

[topsecret]

i didn't like his original blog, but i respect this one.

[MomentOfSilence]

I agree with everything except the taking a photograph of a piece of art analogy. Some leaks are terrible quality (Jimmy Eat World - Futures comes to mind), but if they're VBR or better, they're very listenable. You're not going to notice the difference between that and a CD you put in your computer unless you have good ears/speakers. What we hear (in most cases) is what we're going to hear at the end. Unless you're a lossless loving prick ;)

That aside, I never would have listened to this band had I not been able to download the CD illegally. I'd seen their name thrown around here before and remembered hearing a cover of "Heart Shaped Box." I downloaded the full CD on a whim, and loved it from the first track. I now know exactly what I'm going to get come Tuesday when I walk into Best Buy and purchase the CD.

Lather, rinse, and repeat for a lot of other bands I listen to.

[Steve Henderson]

I agree with everything except the taking a photograph of a piece of art analogy. Some leaks are terrible quality (Jimmy Eat World - Futures comes to mind), but if they're VBR or better, they're very listenable. You're not going to notice the difference between that and a CD you put in your computer unless you have good ears/speakers. What we hear (in most cases) is what we're going to hear at the end. Unless you're a lossless loving prick ;)

That aside, I never would have listened to this band had I not been able to download the CD illegally. I'd seen their name thrown around here before and remembered hearing a cover of "Heart Shaped Box." I downloaded the full CD on a whim, and loved it from the first track. I now know exactly what I'm going to get come Tuesday when I walk into Best Buy and purchase the CD.

Lather, rinse, and repeat for a lot of other bands I listen to.
He was referring to when the unmastered version of their new album leaked like 6 months ago.

[MomentOfSilence]

Oh. My bad, then. I thought he was talking about the retail leak because of the date on the post.

I'm not ever going to defend an unmastered leak.

[The Revisionist]

Good, see, THIS is what he should have just waited on and posted first instead of that sophomoric response on "behalf" of the band.

[Steve Henderson]

Good, see, THIS is what he should have just waited on and posted first instead of that sophomoric response on "behalf" of the band.
No shit...hence his regret at the start of the statement.

[fallingapart101]

Not only should we all buy music, but buy from the mom and pop stores, who cares if they cost more, the only specialize in c.d.'s that is why it is so much. But if you buy when it comes out they have sales. I hate Wal-mart, Best Buy, etc. this world is going to be filled with them and it will be horrible. Tower is gone from that.

[Tom Good]

this is a very well written response to the leak of their album. It is something people should read. He lays out common excuses and answers them in a dignified manner. Good to see this

[tragedyco]

Seriously, anyone arguing with this is an asshole and an idiot. If there is an artist and an album worth buying, it is Lovedrug's new record. Buy it on sale March 6th when it drops, or pick it up NOW on their tour.

yeah... i respect him for saying this. Too many people on this site simply think its ok to download illegally... its ridiculous.

[cubz84]

paying for music is my favorite. there's nothing like going to a record store at 10am on Tuesday morning to buy a cd you've been waiting for for 3 months. you dont get that feeling when you download something. you just dont.

[Tristan Needler]

I wish I had the money to buy CDs. I used to buy every CD I listened to, but there came a point when I just couldn't afford it. Being in school and helping out with the household expenses, while having a part-time job that only gives me about two days a week, at most, makes it impossible to buy CDs. I'd much rather buy than download, but I'm sorry to say that I'm not going to not listen to music because I can't afford it. I know that's bad and I don't feel great about not supporting the art I love, but it's all I can do now. I've only bought maybe four CDs in the last year, and that's pretty sad. I can't wait until I can afford it and start buying music again.

I haven't heard Lovedrug's new album though, I haven't been able to bring myself to download it. I bought their first release without having heard anything by them, and I loved it. I really want to hear this, but I can't make myself download it. Maybe I'll be able to scrape some cash together to buy it.

[Fuce]

He pretty much nailed it. I think I'm going to keep this on hand to link to dumbasses.

[sweetforever]

Seriously, anyone arguing with this is an asshole and an idiot. If there is an artist and an album worth buying, it is Lovedrug's new record. Buy it on sale March 6th when it drops, or pick it up NOW on their tour.

I agree with Steve. And come next week, I will be buying their album, because from the song's I heard on their website, it will be an excellent album.

[tragedyco]

That aside, I never would have listened to this band had I not been able to download the CD illegally. I'd seen their name thrown around here before and remembered hearing a cover of "Heart Shaped Box." I downloaded the full CD on a whim, and loved it from the first track. I now know exactly what I'm going to get come Tuesday when I walk into Best Buy and purchase the CD.

Lather, rinse, and repeat for a lot of other bands I listen to.

I get your point... but there's plenty of ways to listen to a band that you've heard about. And like he said...

"Between free downloads that we provide, streams, and videos, we have made samples from the ENTIRE new LP available through our website, myspace, purevolume, ecard, and similar outlets. You don't need to download illegal and poor quality MP3s to sample our music. Then, if you like it, buy it. Simple. The same is true of virtually every new band out there."

[mogwaifearsatan]

I thought the first post was quite asshole-ish, but the follow up was very enlightening and honest.

The sad thing is, I guarantee about 60% of their "fans" leaving comments in support have nothing but downloaded copies.

[abbietoeknee]

amen to mikey

[Steve Henderson]

And FYI to everyone out there...the artwork in the record makes it work the money just as much as the music. Embossed cardboard booklet, watercolor thumbnails that correspond to the lyrics, and hand-written words. Slick stuff...

[Tristan Needler]

The cover of the other album was cool too, I guess the picture was pretty plain, but there was a piece of wax paper over it that just made it look cool. The cover looked like the music, really.

[Craftsy21]

I respect what he's saying...

But there's going to come a time when band's and music labels have to stop fighting this monster - it's not going anywhere. It's time to embrace it, and Itunes and other online pay services are not the answer either.

There are enough smart people out there that could come up with intelligent ways to make the music industry work again - where bands get paid, and the middle men are eliminated completely - making prices more than reasonable, bands compensated, and those that are the real thiefs out on their asses.

Intellectual property is a confusing subject matter - what's right and wrong is no longer as apparent as it once was - but if we put our best minds in these fields on the job of finding a NEW path, instead of trying to dig out the old one, we'd all be better off for it.

This constant fight bands and labels are going through trying to make an outdated system continue to work is getting really old - Not that I'm condoning illegal filesharing, but the response to it has been pathetic since day one... they missed their chance to nip it early on, and now they're got a huge problem on their hands that nobody wants to deal with properly.

/rant

[Tristan Needler]

I respect what he's saying...

But there's going to come a time when band's and music labels have to stop fighting this monster - it's not going anywhere. It's time to embrace it, and Itunes and other online pay services are not the answer either.

There are enough smart people out there that could come up with intelligent ways to make the music industry work again - where bands get paid, and the middle men are eliminated completely - making prices more than reasonable, bands compensated, and those that are the real thiefs out on their asses.

Intellectual property is a confusing subject matter - what's right and wrong is no longer as apparent as it once was - but if we put our best minds in these fields on the job of finding a NEW path, instead of trying to dig out the old one, we'd all be better off for it.

This constant fight bands and labels are going through trying to make an outdated system continue to work is getting really old - Not that I'm condoning illegal filesharing, but the response to it has been pathetic since day one... they missed their chance to nip it early on, and now they're got a huge problem on their hands that nobody wants to deal with properly.

/rant
How do you think they should deal with it properly? And How could they have nipped it early on?

[falloutboy.]

i wish somehow all cd's would 'always' be on sale, and set a standard price of 7.99 a cd. sure, its drastic. sure you dont make as much money, but believe it or not, 10 bucks adds up. i work 3 jobs to pay for a bunch of shit/bills, and im not gonna shell out 10 bucks for a cd i may like 3-4 songs off it. by NO NO NO means am i saying downloading is good, cuz its NOT, but i think record companies, all of them, should agree for a standard price of 7.99 a cd, i would put money on them selling a tad more in numbers, if they didnt worry about the whole extra money to label a cd at 9.99 or 12.99. illegal downloading will never go away, but lowering cd's all together WILL/WOULD help this industry out.

[atticusfinch]

The only reason I still buy albums is for the artwork, the lyric booklet, and the ability to control the quality of the MP3 rip. 9 times out of 10, I'll likely download an album, but 10 times out of 10, you can bet I'll be buying it. In the past 6 months, I've purchased The Decemberists, Brand New, Anberlin, Explosions In The Sky, Watashi-Wa, Coheed, and MxPx just to name a few, and I downloaded every single of those before they came out. When you support the artist, you're going to buy the album anyway, as well as go to the show. I probably gave Brand New over $100 of my money last year in shows, merch, and the new album. I've given Anberlin $25 this year including the new album. I had EITS's new stuff probably a month and a half before the release date on Feb. 20th, but you know what? I still bought it on the release date from Best Buy. I doubt I'll stop downloading anytime soon, but I can tell you right now that I won't stop buying records any time soon either. I love having the physical copy in my hands, and looking through the booklets included in each album. Bottom line, supporting the artist is a multi-faceted area that includes both downloading and purchasing the album, as well as going to shows and buying merch. If we are all doing these things, the artists like Lovedrug have nothing to worry about.

I'm all for downloading. I'm all for buying the album too, even moreso.

In this day and age, our instant gratification society doesn't want to wait, and so downloading is not going away. However, that doesn't mean our respect for the artist and the artists means should follow suit. We all just have to remember that buying the album is so important for the artist's survival. It's awesome that we can download albums when they're readily available, but if we're not actually buying these albums, why are we listening to the music in the first place?

[Julia Conny]

I'd be hypocritical if I said I didn't download most albums, but if one of my favorite bands release an album, I will purchase a copy NO DOUBT. To me, I need to own an entire disco from my favorites. Lovedrug, I hate to say, is not one of my favorites, but I surely appreciate and respect what they are saying.

You know, people often complain (me included) that bands break up too quickly, most of them never fully developing because of it. This is mostly because these bands can't maintain music as a full-time job. I'm part of the problem, I am not going to lie, and sometimes I even kick myself for it.

[ruptured]

his first blog kind of threw me off, and i got some bad vibes from it but it's nice to see he cleared this up, and i respect this 100%.

i always try to buy cds the first week they're out, simply because the prices are more affordable. the only cd store i have around here is FYE, which i refuse to shop in unless i absolutely have to so 90% of the time i go to target or best buy (which is about an hour away), even though i have the means of ordering music online now when i didn't before. i fully intend to buy the lovedrug cd next week, and i can't wait to hear it. he makes some very valid points, and i have downloaded before but i'm probably the only person i know in my circle of friends that still goes out and buys new cds weekly. even when i had a part time job, making less than $100 a week and having to split that between gas and a cell phone bill monthly, i managed to pick up the cds i really wanted. i wish they were more affordable, but it happens. i like the artwork and the quality way too much to ever stop buying cds.

[Jason Tate]

I respect what he's saying...

But there's going to come a time when band's and music labels have to stop fighting this monster - it's not going anywhere. It's time to embrace it, and Itunes and other online pay services are not the answer either.

It's not possible to do without completely restructuring the system and how one views music itself. It's not going to happen for a while, if it does, and therefore for now playing within the rules is the best solution.

There are enough smart people out there that could come up with intelligent ways to make the music industry work again - where bands get paid, and the middle men are eliminated completely - making prices more than reasonable, bands compensated, and those that are the real thiefs out on their asses.

Already been done: futureofmusicbook.com

Intellectual property is a confusing subject matter - what's right and wrong is no longer as apparent as it once was - but if we put our best minds in these fields on the job of finding a NEW path, instead of trying to dig out the old one, we'd all be better off for it.

No, it's just as apparent. What are you talking about?

This constant fight bands and labels are going through trying to make an outdated system continue to work is getting really old - Not that I'm condoning illegal filesharing, but the response to it has been pathetic since day one... they missed their chance to nip it early on, and now they're got a huge problem on their hands that nobody wants to deal with properly.

No, it was always going to be a problem from the moment CDs were released. The system is not outdated if people would simply get it through their heads that they're stealing.


i wish somehow all cd's would 'always' be on sale, and set a standard price of 7.99 a cd. sure, its drastic. sure you dont make as much money, but believe it or not, 10 bucks adds up.

Bullshit. Most value meals are around the price of a CD now days and you EAT THAT in one sitting. Just as the pricing structure of movies, video games, and clothes is not set up so you own EVERYTHING you could possibly want -- CDs are the same way. You pick and choose what's worth your money.

i work 3 jobs to pay for a bunch of shit/bills, and im not gonna shell out 10 bucks for a cd i may like 3-4 songs off it.

In this day and age you're an idiot - flat out fucking idiot - if you are buying a CD and only like 3 songs on it. Because 1) you can hear 99% of cds online before buying or at stores in listening booths, 2) you can use itunes and download those 3 songs for 3 bucks.

i work 3 jobs to pay for a bunch of shit/bills, and im not gonna shell by NO NO NO means am i saying downloading is good, cuz its NOT, but i think record companies, all of them, should agree for a standard price of 7.99 a cd, i would put money on them selling a tad more in numbers, if they didnt worry about the whole extra money to label a cd at 9.99 or 12.99. illegal downloading will never go away, but lowering cd's all together WILL/WOULD help this industry out.

Your "solution" does not fit the supply and demand curve.

[Drew Beringer]

For those with a credit card, the album is only 7.50 at the TMG store, get it there.

[Tristan Needler]

It sucks buying CD's in Canada too, they're always over $20.

[The Revisionist]

No shit...hence his regret at the start of the statement.No shit... hence my agreement via acknowledgment.

[Jason Tate]

It sucks buying CD's in Canada too, they're always over $20.
But you have free health care. ;-)

[hunt5127]

downloading will always be an issue and this one statement isnt going to change anyones mind....the only thing people and bands can do is to try as best they can to convince others to support bands with purchases...just going to shows isn't enough because a bands cd sales dictate so much in the industry today...just because a band doesn't make as much money off of it doesn't mean it isn't a form of support... does anyone think that the labels care what makes the artist the most money...the label dictates everything and sales dictate who the label supports the most

[The Revisionist]

I don't really understand how people can listen to music and not want to look at the lyrics/pictures/liner notes/artwork... to me all of that is just as important as the music.

[sweetforever]

I don't really understand how people can listen to music and not want to look at the lyrics/pictures/liner notes/artwork... to me all of that is just as important as the music.

agreed. I love looking through the lyric book after I buy an album. First thing I did when I got Cities was check out the cd booklet/lyrics.

[radxbandit]

he can say whatever he wants (i didn't read the blog) i'm still buying their record

[The Revisionist]

That'll show him!

[Julia Conny]

But you have free health care. ;-)

And a cheaper college education.

[Tristan Needler]

But you have free health care. ;-)Haha that's true.

And a cheaper college education.So is that.

But I still can't afford to buy a CD.

[spikestoyou]

I buy so many cds... geez...

[dukie_04]

i dont feel bad for downloading leaks, 99.9% of the time i go buy them on the release date, delete what i downloaded, then re up it on my itunes i buy on the avg of 3-5 cds every tuesday.

[chadsvans]

I'll just get it when it comes out on emusic. That's the only win/win in my opinion.

[halfamile]

Lovedrug is a band that is unfortunately between "everyone wants it!" and "eh...it's so so". A result of this is people on the fence about the record who throw it on the list of things to download that they would not normally buy. I have never downloaded because I'm too lazy, so maybe I'm speaking naively

Many people who post on this site are into Lovedrug and the chances of them purchasing the album are high...but there's a whole world out there of people who are not as much into music that are so so about Lovedrug and will therefore download...and they wouldn't have bought to begin with

does that make sense? I'm sure someone has said this stuff already

[HTL570]

Thank god someone actually thinks like this.

Buy a new CD every Tuesday! The movies cost $10 a person and you cant even really eat for less than $10 these days. Buying a CD or buying an album through a digital outlet isnt really all that much. There is nothing like taking the shrink wrap off a brand new CD and looking at all the artwork and how the CD is hard to get out of the case the first time and it feels like its going to break.

I feel the person that doesnt have the money to buy new CDs. When I lived with my parents I bought every single CD that came out, but these days I have to pay rent, bills, food and just everyday bullllshit that sucks. I try to pick up a new CD every Tuesday that is $9.99 or less even if Im not a huge fan. This week I bought Anberlin's new disc, last week I bought The Game's disc and the week before that I bought A Day To Remember's new album.

I work for an indie record label, im broke and im poor, but I want to see music continue and thrive.

I believe that the Music Industry is in a huge transition right now. Downloading is so easy to do and there is almost no punishment for it. But...back in the day kids could smoke at school and you could smoke a huge blunt in the park, I would never think of doing that stuff today.

They'll find ways to stop illegal downloading (not the RIAA nazi crap either) and the people that run music in this world will go back to being multi-multi-millionaires (as opposed to just plain millionaires) and hopefully all the people making music will be able to provide for their families or at least eat a solid meal.

[bradyreier]

I don't really understand how people can listen to music and not want to look at the lyrics/pictures/liner notes/artwork... to me all of that is just as important as the music.
i totally agree.

[S84newt2000]

I just got this cd in the mail today and I love it.

[badnewsandliars]

they might have some good points, but....

1. a lot of people would never listen to them unless they had the opportunity to download their cd.
2. Nobody except britney spears, justin timberlake and the like makes money off of selling their cds. money comes from merchandise, airplay and contracts.
3. Exposure is the most importnat thing...more exposure and less payment for it now means more fans in the future and more payment for it then.

Don't tell me that if he had to start over from scratch that he wouldn't let anybody download one of his songs.

[badnewsandliars]

and another thing....a lot of people (myself included) will download cds and then go buy them. maybe he doesn't count on people to do that, but i do.

[HTL570]

they might have some good points, but....

1. a lot of people would never listen to them unless they had the opportunity to download their cd.
2. Nobody except britney spears, justin timberlake and the like makes money off of selling their cds. money comes from merchandise, airplay and contracts.
3. Exposure is the most importnat thing...more exposure and less payment for it now means more fans in the future and more payment for it then.

Don't tell me that if he had to start over from scratch that he wouldn't let anybody download one of his songs.

I dont think that the point is making money off albums. I think the point is that labels dont give bands any extra money for tour support or advances anymore because they cant afford it. Which means that bands have to spend more of their own money.

and another thing....a lot of people (myself included) will download cds and then go buy them. maybe he doesn't count on people to do that, but i do.

There are plenty of ways to preview an album besides downloading it. There's myspace, purevolume, ecards, samplers, full album streams, etc.

Dont add to the site you download off's popularity, help them to get less business so they are forced to shut down.

[Craftsy21]

I'm guessing nobody is going to read this now that it's dropped so far down the page - but in response to Tate's questioning of what i'm talking about - i would say, your line of thinking is very much what's holding back the music community, and it's pretty alarming really.

You've seen the good that downloading can do for bands and for music in general - it gives the power back to the listeners, instead of the record labels. There is plenty of good that has come from the D/L generation, to deny that is absurd.

So how can you say the lines between right and wrong haven't been mixed up?

On top of that - how can you steal something intangible? -- and if you can, then should I be going to a lawyer to make sure nobody ever repeats a thought of mine again without paying for the rights to it first?

You want to paint it black and white - but it's not that simple.

There is good that can be done through the advent of the internet and file sharing - information can be transfered instantaneously throughout the world to rich and poor alike, and the RIAA and MPAA are trying to snuff that out. I understand why they're concerned - they should be. They've been adding costs to these products that never should've been there to begin with, and they don't want to change the ways of their pocket lining now after all these years.

But to sit there hoping the problem goes away and making your customers all suspects in the meantime is not solving anything.

There is money to be made in different ways off of this, if they would ever break out of their old-school way of thinking. Honestly - I don't have the perfect answer, and probably never will - i'm not that creative... but there's millions of music listeners out there that would be more than willing to help find a happy medium if the RIAA would ever come to the table. Times are a changing, and they just want to stay the same. Name me another successful company that tries to run their operation the same way for as long as the RIAA and MPAA -- if you don't evolve, you become obsolete. It's not too late, but it seems they just aren't willing to think out of the box on it whatsoever.

I'll bet you if guys like Steve Jobs and Marc Cuban took over for a few weeks though, they wouldn't be sitting back watching their business crumble - they'd be embracing new ideas and working WITH customers, not against.

Just my thoughts - I don't mean to say it's perfectly okay to go d/l whatever you want, whenever you want - but to say that it's just wrong on all counts is also a little silly. It's capable of being the best thing that ever happened to media, if the people controlling the means of operation would just get out of the way of it.

[Steve Henderson]

I'm guessing nobody is going to read this now that it's dropped so far down the page - but in response to Tate's questioning of what i'm talking about - i would say, your line of thinking is very much what's holding back the music community, and it's pretty alarming really.
Wow, so Jason is what's holding back the music industry? Interesting.

You've seen the good that downloading can do for bands and for music in general - it gives the power back to the listeners, instead of the record labels. There is plenty of good that has come from the D/L generation, to deny that is absurd.
That is all well and good, but artists NEED record labels to act as banks. They fund advances and recording budgets, distribution, marketing, and tour support. If artists could do all that on their own, the industry would have changed decades ago.

So how can you say the lines between right and wrong haven't been mixed up?

On top of that - how can you steal something intangible? -- and if you can, then should I be going to a lawyer to make sure nobody ever repeats a thought of mine again without paying for the rights to it first?
If you have a thought you can profit from, you can indeed protect it...it's called a patent in that case, copyright in others.

You want to paint it black and white - but it's not that simple.
Yes it is.

There is good that can be done through the advent of the internet and file sharing - information can be transfered instantaneously throughout the world to rich and poor alike, and the RIAA and MPAA are trying to snuff that out. I understand why they're concerned - they should be. They've been adding costs to these products that never should've been there to begin with, and they don't want to change the ways of their pocket lining now after all these years.
I agree that the RIAA has questionable practices, and there are total bullshit costs in record contracts. However, CDs are a luxury item - not everyone is entitled to them. Anyways, there are entities embracing the good aspects of the internet - iTunes, eMusic, etc. Also, remember that not ALL labels are part of the RIAA, so if you fuck with a true indie artist, you are not sending a single message to the RIAA.

[atlanticoustics]

I understand the reasoning behind the blog, and I agree almost fully However, as others have stated, this band (among many others) would never have gotten a second thought from me if I hadn't downloaded their album beforehand. Sometimes it takes a download to get a future sale. Doesn't make it right, but.. with the ability to download as easily as we're currently able to.. a downloaded CD and a new fan is better than no downloaded CD and no new fan, in my eyes at least. I might be wrong, but that much is a matter of opinion.

[Steve Henderson]

I understand the reasoning behind the blog, and I agree almost fully However, as others have stated, this band (among many others) would never have gotten a second thought from me if I hadn't downloaded their album beforehand. Sometimes it takes a download to get a future sale. Doesn't make it right, but.. with the ability to download as easily as we're currently able to.. a downloaded CD and a new fan is better than no downloaded CD and no new fan, in my eyes at least. I might be wrong, but that much is a matter of opinion.
I am sure the number of people that download and DON'T buy later far outweighs the number of people that do.