Oil Pressure Rising

[inthemidst]

http://www.economist.com/node/18233452

The reality of the oil situation is a bit unsettling. After Egypt's overthrowing of President/Dictator Mubarak, and now Lybia's political unrest, the crude oil situation is worsening, and doesn't see many signs of improvement in the near future.

Please discuss, thanks.

[jawstheme]

Human rights > oil

[inthemidst]

I agree, but that's not where the debate lies in this forum.

[secretsociety92]

The only reason the oil prices are going up is because the crude oil from Lybia is some of the best in the world if it wasn't then it would be fine because they only produce about 2% of the worlds oil.

[saysmydoctor]

People's priorities confuse me.

[inthemidst]

"If Libya’s oil stopped flowing importers would look to Saudi Arabia to make up the shortfall. The oil could probably flow to fill the gap in Europe, Libya’s main market, in a matter of weeks. OPEC claims that it has 6m b/d on tap but that looks wishful. Analysts think the true number is nearer 4m-5m b/d, with 3m-3.5m b/d in Saudi hands. That is ample to plug a Libyan gap but would hasten the day when growing world demand sucks up all spare production capacity. Analysts at Nomura reckon that it would only take a halt of exports from Algeria as well to absorb all the slack and propel oil to a terrifying $220 a barrel."

Yikes.

[saysmydoctor]

I would be more concerned about the impending oil crisis but:

1. People are dying and that's far more important.
2. I'm tired of repeating the oft uttered "invest in alternative energy because oil won't always be there" phrase. Maybe it actually requires the absence of oil to drive the point home. The only thing I never tire of repeating is "I told you so."

[Simulcast]

It's a good thing I'm selling my car. Can't afford higher prices.

[inthemidst]

I would be more concerned about the impending oil crisis but:

1. People are dying and that's far more important.
2. I'm tired of repeating the oft uttered "invest in alternative energy because oil won't always be there" phrase. Maybe it actually requires the absence of oil to drive the point home. The only thing I never tire of repeating is "I told you so."

This is not the dispute, though, and no one asked you or anyone else to discuss something that you weren't concerned about. That's not the idea of it. I agree that there's a moral travesty with people dying due to political unrest, but the oil crisis is something that is global, rather than national.

[Colinmac36]

I'd just love to see all of America boycott oil for just one week and see those middle eastern countries go crazy and there economy crashes, it'd be great.

[sjb2k1]

boycotting oil for a week wouldn't work, you'd just buy it the next week. long-term reduction would be the most effective way.

[inthemidst]

It's a good thing I'm selling my car. Can't afford higher prices.

I wish I could sell my car, but my commute to work is 25 miles away. Damn.

[Simulcast]

I wish I could sell my car, but my commute to work is 25 miles away. Damn.

That makes it tough. Grab a bike and become Lance Armstrong.

[inthemidst]

That makes it tough. Grab a bike and become Lance Armstrong.

Haha, definitely.

[roche]

I'd just love to see all of America boycott oil for just one week and see those middle eastern countries go crazy and their economy crashes, it'd be great.

Your lack of compassion sickens me, as does your spelling.

[jakeyrotten]

the cost of gas def sux, but at the same time it's really great to see the people of Libya, Eygpt, Algeria, Morrocco, Kuwait, etc finally rise up against the zealots who've run their countries for centuries. Nice to know the spirit of revolution is still alive and well.

[inthemidst]

the cost of gas def sux, but at the same time it's really great to see the people of Libya, Eygpt, Algeria, Morrocco, Kuwait, etc finally rise up against the zealots who've run their countries for centuries. Nice to know the spirit of revolution is still alive and well.

I could definitely agree with that assessment.

[Colinmac36]

boycotting oil for a week wouldn't work, you'd just buy it the next week. long-term reduction would be the most effective way.
oh trust me one week would have more influence than you'd expect. but i think Americans should seriously consider this soon, i mean it'd take all the power that the middle eastern countries think they have right now and totally make them helpless. But it doesn't matter once they use all their oil by selling it to the rest of the world, they'll be out, and with the resources we have here we'll still be able to provide for ourselves.

[Colinmac36]

Your lack of compassion sickens me, as does your spelling.
your argument is a joke that i "lack compassion" if you actually knew anything about the middle east you'd know some of the countries who sell the oil support terrorism openly. Example: Iran, who has one of the biggest supplies in the world, who "lacks compassion" now my friend? haha

[sjb2k1]

oh trust me one week would have more influence than you'd expect. but i think Americans should seriously consider this soon, i mean it'd take all the power that the middle eastern countries think they have right now and totally make them helpless. But it doesn't matter once they use all their oil by selling it to the rest of the world, they'll be out, and with the resources we have here we'll still be able to provide for ourselves.
again, just not using it for a week will not do a thing, you'll just be buying some at another time. that's why all those chain emails about "stick it to the oil companies don't buy gas on feb 24th" are a bunch of bullshit.

[Colinmac36]

again, just not using it for a week will not do a thing, you'll just be buying some at another time. that's why all those chain emails about "stick it to the oil companies don't buy gas on feb 24th" are a bunch of bullshit.
one day will do nothing but one week will do a little more and the longer the boycott the bigger the impact i mean many examples of just a week of completely shutting down a country's income/economy/open market damages it. Take for example, Egypt, they stopped work for what 2 weeks to a month, and still some continue not to work, and their economy is completely down the drain it will takes the many many years to recover from just that one month, of no one working, buying, selling exc. another example is 9/11 after 9/11 what happened the day after? nothing. nothing happened at all nobody bough nobody sold nobody went to work. it stayed this way for over a week. until finally, our government had to give stimulus checks to the people to encourage them to buy, now not nearly as severe as Egypt it still had an impact on us, and one could even argue that we still feel the blow of that week to this day. You're getting what im trying to say right?
And i feel personally obligated to you because i know i have not been watching my words and you have warned me before. I say dumb things sometimes especially in front of those people, you know who im talking about, and i sometimes do not think before i type, so im sorry for that. I will be more thoughtful next time i type or get mad or whatever....regardless to beliefs on certain individuals on here i am not a homophobe.

[Colinmac36]

I could definitely agree with that assessment.
you won't be happy if extremists groups come to power in those countries like HAMAS or Hezbollah, which could be extremely threatening to the united states and of which is actually a possibility....

[Simulcast]

I'd just love to see all of America boycott oil for just one week and see those middle eastern countries go crazy and there economy crashes, it'd be great.

A better idea would be to expand out own drilling operations. Introduce more oil into the market and the prices will drop.

[jawstheme]

one day will do nothing but one week will do a little more and the longer the boycott the bigger the impact i mean many examples of just a week of completely shutting down a country's income/economy/open market damages it. Take for example, Egypt, they stopped work for what 2 weeks to a month, and still some continue not to work, and their economy is completely down the drain it will takes the many many years to recover from just that one month, of no one working, buying, selling exc. another example is 9/11 after 9/11 what happened the day after? nothing. nothing happened at all nobody bough nobody sold nobody went to work. it stayed this way for over a week. until finally, our government had to give stimulus checks to the people to encourage them to buy, now not nearly as severe as Egypt it still had an impact on us, and one could even argue that we still feel the blow of that week to this day. You're getting what im trying to say right?
And i feel personally obligated to you because i know i have not been watching my words and you have warned me before. I say dumb things sometimes especially in front of those people, you know who im talking about, and i sometimes do not think before i type, so im sorry for that. I will be more thoughtful next time i type or get mad or whatever....regardless to beliefs on certain individuals on here i am not a homophobe.

When PL and Politics forums mix.

[Colinmac36]

A better idea would be to expand out own drilling operations. Introduce more oil into the market and the prices will drop.
in our country yes. but part of me says we're waiting till the middle east runs out to starts looking out drilling options for us off the eastern coast of the united states. However the problem is not that there isn't enough, it is that these middle eastern countries stop the supply coming/ restrict how much we get, thats what makes the gas prices, and makes them either high or low. and the USA is always using oil which means our demand is always up but the supply is restricted.cut and the price rises. by boycotting, the demand would go down which would make the supply go down which would lower the prices.

[Colinmac36]

When PL and Politics forums mix.
haha i felt like i needed to apologize to her. these Political forums are so much better, much more educated people on here.

[sjb2k1]

one day will do nothing but one week will do a little more and the longer the boycott the bigger the impact i mean many examples of just a week of completely shutting down a country's income/economy/open market damages it. Take for example, Egypt, they stopped work for what 2 weeks to a month, and still some continue not to work, and their economy is completely down the drain it will takes the many many years to recover from just that one month, of no one working, buying, selling exc. another example is 9/11 after 9/11 what happened the day after? nothing. nothing happened at all nobody bough nobody sold nobody went to work. it stayed this way for over a week. until finally, our government had to give stimulus checks to the people to encourage them to buy, now not nearly as severe as Egypt it still had an impact on us, and one could even argue that we still feel the blow of that week to this day. You're getting what im trying to say right?
And i feel personally obligated to you because i know i have not been watching my words and you have warned me before. I say dumb things sometimes especially in front of those people, you know who im talking about, and i sometimes do not think before i type, so im sorry for that. I will be more thoughtful next time i type or get mad or whatever....regardless to beliefs on certain individuals on here i am not a homophobe.
i understand what you're saying but i think you'd need a lot longer than a week to make something happen. just my opinion.

[Scrandon]

Our economy doesn't function without oil either. Herp derp.

[Colinmac36]

Our economy doesn't function without oil either. Herp derp.
it doesnt all have to come from the middle east.

[J.C.]

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE OIL

x

[domotime2]

wthin the next 20 years we will face an oil crisis that will change the world.

[inthemidst]

I believe this is why the government is spending a lot of money on research for the development of alternative energy. God knows we need to find something else because I don't foresee the situation alleviating anytime soon.

[Colinmac36]

I believe this is why the government is spending a lot of money on research for the development of alternative energy. God knows we need to find something else because I don't foresee the situation alleviating anytime soon.

there researching and spending but not enough money or effort is going into it in my opinion

[inthemidst]

there researching and spending but not enough money or effort is going into it in my opinion

With the combination of a fragile economy, and an exponential rise in oil cost, public pressure will force the government to be more urgent in finding means for alternative energy.

[Simulcast]

I'm pretty sure oil companies will get to useful alternative energies before the government does.

[inthemidst]

I'm pretty sure oil companies will get to useful alternative energies before the government does.

Yeah, but I'm sure they'll receive government funding. In retrospect, I should have revised my wording.

[Love As Arson]

I'm pretty sure oil companies will get to useful alternative energies before the government does.
They're in no hurry to do so. They've shown their political muscle in preventing any kind of legislation that would hinder their profits and they're in collusion with one another. The point at which I envision them actually shifting to alternative fuels will be when the crisis has already hit us the hardest.

[Simulcast]

They're in no hurry to do so. They've shown their political muscle in preventing any kind of legislation that would hinder their profits and they're in collusion with one another. The point at which I envision them actually shifting to alternative fuels will be when the crisis has already hit us the hardest.

They will do so when it becomes more profitable. Once oil prices rise above prices that people are willing to pay, those companies will be forced to create or utilize a cheaper, more abundant source of fuel, or die off.

The government, on the other hand, functions under no such principle.

[tkamB]

I'd just love to see all of America boycott oil for just one week and see those middle eastern countries go crazy and there economy crashes, it'd be great.

Ignoring the fact that you apparently want an economy to crash and cause already poor people to suffer more hardship, you apparently have no idea where US oil comes from (http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/research/crude-oil/where-the-us-gets-its-oil-from/). A small percentage of US oil actually comes from the middle east at this point and the biggest contributor out of the middle east is Saudi Arabia which would not at all be affected by a one week boycott.

edit: A more in depth graph,

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ezthustra/images/us_crude_oil_pie_chart_feb_jul_2009 .png

[Love As Arson]

They will do so when it becomes more profitable. Once oil prices rise above prices that people are willing to pay, those companies will be forced to create or utilize a cheaper, more abundant source of fuel, or die off.

The government, on the other hand, functions under no such principle.
It will continue to be profitable, so long as they have the money to prevent any alternatives, such as buying the patents of new technologies and putting them on the shelf or funding opposition to better public transportation systems. At this point, they have no competition in terms of influence, nor in the realm of the marketplace. In my mind, they will ensure a lack of preparedness for a world that no longer revolves around oil. And I'm quite certain there will be new imperial ventures, which work to their advantage, to secure access to the dwindling oil resources.

[inthemidst]

That's quite a pessimistic view of the government's budget; albeit probably true.

[saysmydoctor]

boycotting oil for a week wouldn't work, you'd just buy it the next week. long-term reduction would be the most effective way.
That's what I said about things like Earth Hour and people laughed at me.
A better idea would be to expand out own drilling operations. Introduce more oil into the market and the prices will drop.
What a short-term solution.
I'm pretty sure oil companies will get to useful alternative energies before the government does.
People have been voicing concerns about oil production reaching its peak for years and rather then oil companies work to find alternatives, they've instead bought up any technology that would threaten their oil profits--all while getting subsidies from the government and bringing massive profits.

Your argument is ignorant to their track record.

[roche]

your argument is a joke that i "lack compassion" if you actually knew anything about the middle east you'd know some of the countries who sell the oil support terrorism openly. Example: Iran, who has one of the biggest supplies in the world, who "lacks compassion" now my friend? haha

You have to be one of the most self-important brats I've ever encountered. I said absolutely nothing about terrorism, nor did I bring up a counter argument to your incredibly naive "boycott" idea. All I did was bring to light your propensity to demonize other people and countries. The fact that you would laugh at the idea of an entire country collapsing and brought into civil unrest, truly does sicken me. Yes, there are oil-rich countries that harbour pro-terrorism groups. But that in no way implicates all of the people living within those boarders, and that in no way justifies any hostile sentiments to an entire civilization. Quite dealing absolutes, and realize the world isn't black and white.

America's oil reliance on Middle Eastern OPEC nations (Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates) is relatively low, they only account for 21% of US oil imports (http://www.sbecouncil.org/news/display.cfm?ID=2565), US total oil imports from that year was 13,707,000 bbl/day (http://www.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbb lpd_a.htm). However, those nations (by 2010 numbers) produce a total of 22,840,000 bbl/day (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2173rank.html#top). Meaning that in comparison to what that region produces the US doesn't import enough oil from there for a boycott to drastically affect their economy, nor does it mean that an American boycott would magically diminish the the world-wide demand for oil that (when combined) buys more from them than the US alone. If you knew anything about trade, or reality in general you'd know that was a stupid idea.

[esposimi]

I heard we may hit $3.50 a gallon by summer. FML.

[Scrandon]

They will do so when it becomes more profitable. Once oil prices rise above prices that people are willing to pay, those companies will be forced to create or utilize a cheaper, more abundant source of fuel, or die off.

The government, on the other hand, functions under no such principle.
Well, that sounds about as ideological as it gets.

[Simulcast]

Well, that sounds about as ideological as it gets.

Right, unless you trace the history of our dependence on wood for fuel, and how that was eliminated by the advent of oil, saving thousands of acres of trees and propelling us into the 20th century. It was done because a few men realized they could profit tremendously from it. We live in a capitalist society. Someone will inevitably see a market for alternative energy, and at that point things will really change. If something like this is going to get done, it's going to happen on a large scale and a cheaply as possible. That's how dad did it, that how America does it, and it's worked out pretty good so far.

[Simulcast]

I heard we may hit $3.50 a gallon by summer. FML.

I'm already there.

[boxingwithstars]

I believe this is why the government is spending a lot of money on research for the development of alternative energy. God knows we need to find something else because I don't foresee the situation alleviating anytime soon.

They're not doing enough, tbh. I don't think we will see any huge changes until we're hit hardest by the crisis. Kind of the same thing that happened with the financial crisis... tons of people saw it coming, but no one tried to "fix" it until it was too late.

[esposimi]

I'm already there.

Damn, glad I don't live in Cali.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6854802/Screenshots/Screen%20shot%202011-02-24%20at%209.53.35%20PM.png

[Simulcast]

Damn, glad I don't live in Cali.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6854802/Screenshots/Screen%20shot%202011-02-24%20at%209.53.35%20PM.png

Yep. No driving for me for a while.

[selftitled85]

I'd just love to see all of America boycott oil for just one week and see those middle eastern countries go crazy and there economy crashes, it'd be great.

No one would care.

World oil consumption is growing by almost 2 million barrels a day. OECD countries account for .3 million barrels of that. China, India, Brazil, and many other third world countries are growing massively. They would love it if we stopped consuming because it would mean more for them.

[selftitled85]

They're not doing enough, tbh. I don't think we will see any huge changes until we're hit hardest by the crisis. Kind of the same thing that happened with the financial crisis... tons of people saw it coming, but no one tried to "fix" it until it was too late.

Get ready for that to disappear. Most of the work is done through the EPA. The current congress is trying to basically destroy them. All that money is going to go bye bye.

[captivewear]

This is another reason why we need to create a strong energy market in the United States. The fact that we have to pay nearly 10-20% more a gallon just because of someone's problems that aren't our problem just sucks. Now I am all for equality and freedom for everyone in every country but the fact that we are suppose to be the top country in the world and yet we still rely on other countries so badly makes no sense.
I wish we could just make all vehicles get a minimum of 100 mpg and raise the gas prices to $8 a gallon. Use less and the oil companies and car companies make money and the people benefit as well as the earth. We use less and the oil industry will last longer. Makes sense to me...
If we cut the amount we are using by 80% we can not have to get oil from the middle east.

[popdisaster00]

This is another reason why we need to create a strong energy market in the United States. The fact that we have to pay nearly 10-20% more a gallon just because of someone's problems that aren't our problem just sucks. Now I am all for equality and freedom for everyone in every country but the fact that we are suppose to be the top country in the world and yet we still rely on other countries so badly makes no sense.
I wish we could just make all vehicles get a minimum of 100 mpg and raise the gas prices to $8 a gallon. Use less and the oil companies and car companies make money and the people benefit as well as the earth. We use less and the oil industry will last longer. Makes sense to me...
If we cut the amount we are using by 80% we can not have to get oil from the middle east.
Really.

[inthemidst]

They're not doing enough, tbh. I don't think we will see any huge changes until we're hit hardest by the crisis. Kind of the same thing that happened with the financial crisis... tons of people saw it coming, but no one tried to "fix" it until it was too late.

I agree. These oil companies are advertising alternative energy resource, but we haven't seen much progress at all, and they're only doing it for good PR.

[Holly HoX!]

3.49 in minneapolis. 2/25/2011

[Holly HoX!]

the current middle east unrest (Libya) is the problem, not the consumption. thinking of alternatives is a great idea in theory, but it isn't feasible right now. face the facts.

[Thursdaysox]

I came in expecting to learn something, then I remembered I was on ap.net. I did get the lolz though.

[Scrandon]

the current middle east unrest (Libya) is the problem, not the consumption. thinking of alternatives is a great idea in theory, but it isn't feasible right now. face the facts.
It's certainly possible and it's not something that's just going to happen. The more time and money that is thrown at the challenge, the sooner it will happen. You don't just sit around and wait for it to be feasible, it doesn't happen on its own as if it were pre-ordained.

[Holly HoX!]

It's certainly possible and it's not something that's just going to happen. The more time and money that is thrown at the challenge, the sooner it will happen. You don't just sit around and wait for it to be feasible, it doesn't happen on its own as if it were pre-ordained.

but that's just it - people are throwing money at it now, millions if not billions of dollars in fact, but in our current economic climate, there are far more important things to shovel money into: i.e. making sure everyone has a roof over their head. i'm all for 'going green' and alternate energy, but now is and is not the time. people are starving and living on the street. think locally before you think globally. on a side note: ethanol = not the answer. and trust me, people aren't just sitting around. i mean, on even a micro level, traditional light bulbs are going to fizzle out in the next couple years to be replaced with alternatives. it's happening all around us, and there are innovators and innovations, but it isn't overnight, which i think we both agree on.

[Holly HoX!]

I'd just love to see all of America boycott oil for just one week and see those middle eastern countries go crazy and there economy crashes, it'd be great.

it would never happen, and you're ignorant. take a seat and learn something.

[Scrandon]

but that's just it - people are throwing money at it now, millions if not billions of dollars in fact, but in our current economic climate, there are far more important things to shovel money into: i.e. making sure everyone has a roof over their head. i'm all for 'going green' and alternate energy, but now is and is not the time. people are starving and living on the street. think locally before you think globally. on a side note: ethanol = not the answer. and trust me, people aren't just sitting around. i mean, on even a micro level, traditional light bulbs are going to fizzle out in the next couple years to be replaced with alternatives. it's happening all around us, and there are innovators and innovations, but it isn't overnight, which i think we both agree on.
I just don't see the sense in waiting just because we might have energy sources in the short-term, which, by the way, have been causing us a lot of trouble recently. Of course the money could be spent elsewhere, but that will always be the case. Even if world hunger is eradicated, you could say we need to focus on AIDS research next. It's just not a good reason.

[Holly HoX!]

I just don't see the sense in waiting just because we might have energy sources in the short-term, which, by the way, have been causing us a lot of trouble recently. Of course the money could be spent elsewhere, but that will always be the case. Even if world hunger is eradicated, you could say we need to focus on AIDS research next. It's just not a good reason.

i'm not saying that is always the case. but currently i think it is. no one cares about a field of fucking windmills when an entire neighborhood is foreclosed. see what i'm getting at? and what problems? what would you propose we do first? in a perfect world of course. and like i said before, there is, currently, hundreds of millions of dollars going into alternate energy research and industry. surprisingly, and maybe not, car companies are making some of the first moves, which really in the first step.

[mattyrocks]

I came in expecting to learn something, then I remembered I was on ap.net. I did get the lolz though.


right forum.

wrong thread.

[Holly HoX!]

I came in expecting to learn something, then I remembered I was on ap.net. I did get the lolz though.

thanks for the intellectual contribution.

[Scrandon]

i'm not saying that is always the case. but currently i think it is. no one cares about a field of fucking windmills when an entire neighborhood is foreclosed. see what i'm getting at? and what problems? what would you propose we do first? in a perfect world of course. and like i said before, there is, currently, hundreds of millions of dollars going into alternate energy research and industry. surprisingly, and maybe not, car companies are making some of the first moves, which really in the first step.
Problems: Oil spills, wars, stock market fluctuations, general pollution.
I wouldn't know where to start because I'm not a scientist, but I'm sure they would.
I guess I'm looking long-term and you're looking short-term. I don't know why you wouldn't want to give this effort as much time as possible to produce a success before oil runs low and prices skyrocket.

[Holly HoX!]

Problems: Oil spills, wars, stock market fluctuations, general pollution.
I wouldn't know where to start because I'm not a scientist, but I'm sure they would.
I guess I'm looking long-term and you're looking short-term. I don't know why you wouldn't want to give this effort as much time as possible to produce a success before oil runs low and prices skyrocket.

no, no. you are taking it the wrong way. i'm thinking short term as in, let's say, five years. get the housing make back up to speed. bring back people's spending confidence and restore some sort of stability in the economy, because right now it's not there. it's coming back slowly, but it's not there. this isn't the '90s. the difference is i'm thinking on more of micro level, and you macro. it's not really in terms of length of time. those four things you listed, however horrible and strenuous on the environment they may be, are all unavoidable. yes, even war. and it doesn't take a scientist to do your part. you can recycle and encourage your friends to do the same - micro level. what you also have to realize is that the oil, that is, the oil supply we are actually using on a daily basis, is not set to run out for 50-60 odd years. in that amount of time there should and will be many, many energy alternatives. the point is this: there is effort, money and resources that are going towards alternative energy solutions.

there needs to be both short- and long-term solutions working at the same time.

[inthemidst]

Right, unless you trace the history of our dependence on wood for fuel, and how that was eliminated by the advent of oil, saving thousands of acres of trees and propelling us into the 20th century. It was done because a few men realized they could profit tremendously from it. We live in a capitalist society. Someone will inevitably see a market for alternative energy, and at that point things will really change. If something like this is going to get done, it's going to happen on a large scale and a cheaply as possible. That's how dad did it, that how America does it, and it's worked out pretty good so far.

Loving the Iron Man quote, haha.

[saysmydoctor]

no, no. you are taking it the wrong way. i'm thinking short term as in, let's say, five years. get the housing make back up to speed. bring back people's spending confidence and restore some sort of stability in the economy, because right now it's not there. it's coming back slowly, but it's not there. this isn't the '90s. the difference is i'm thinking on more of micro level, and you macro. it's not really in terms of length of time. those four things you listed, however horrible and strenuous on the environment they may be, are all unavoidable. yes, even war. and it doesn't take a scientist to do your part. you can recycle and encourage your friends to do the same - micro level. what you also have to realize is that the oil, that is, the oil supply we are actually using on a daily basis, is not set to run out for 50-60 odd years. in that amount of time there should and will be many, many energy alternatives. the point is this: there is effort, money and resources that are going towards alternative energy solutions.

there needs to be both short- and long-term solutions working at the same time.
Yeah, that's your problem. You're not thinking long term.

It's like all these budget cuts across the country in the name of budget austerity. Sure, cutting those services now saves money. Cutting education funding, closing state parks, etc, etc, saves money short term, long-term? You lose out. For instance, NY wanted to cut $6 million in funding for state parks. While, yes, the state would have saved $6 million, it would have long-term lost out in what is estimated to be about $6 billion in economic activity.

Stop thinking short-term.

[Holly HoX!]

Yeah, that's your problem. You're not thinking long term.

It's like all these budget cuts across the country in the name of budget austerity. Sure, cutting those services now saves money. Cutting education funding, closing state parks, etc, etc, saves money short term, long-term? You lose out. For instance, NY wanted to cut $6 million in funding for state parks. While, yes, the state would have saved $6 million, it would have long-term lost out in what is estimated to be about $6 billion in economic activity.

Stop thinking short-term.

in reality, it's a case-by-case basis. i don't want to speak in generalizations in saying that it's an either or scenario. that's why i said short- and long-term solutions should be working at the same time. i'm not thinking one way or the other, i'm more just starting discussion/debate. i'm not a staunch rep. or demo. in terms of my fiscal leanings. i do, however, think there are good points to be made on either side of the argument - like the NY case you just brought up, which i completely agree with. obviously i want long-term solutions - everybody should - but there are short-term solutions that can be beneficial as well.

also, like i said in the block you quoted above, i was also thinking of mirco solutions aside from the big, macro overhauls our economy may very well need.

[Simulcast]

Loving the Iron Man quote, haha.

I plan on dropping it more often.

[God damner]

It's either we evolve or get fucked.

[Carolina.Alex]

Some really stupid statements made in here. Most of them by one person.

[saysmydoctor]

in reality, it's a case-by-case basis. i don't want to speak in generalizations in saying that it's an either or scenario. that's why i said short- and long-term solutions should be working at the same time. i'm not thinking one way or the other, i'm more just starting discussion/debate. i'm not a staunch rep. or demo. in terms of my fiscal leanings. i do, however, think there are good points to be made on either side of the argument - like the NY case you just brought up, which i completely agree with. obviously i want long-term solutions - everybody should - but there are short-term solutions that can be beneficial as well.

also, like i said in the block you quoted above, i was also thinking of mirco solutions aside from the big, macro overhauls our economy may very well need.
I don't see discouraging investment in green energy now to the create jobs and the vital infrastructure of tomorrow to be a smart short-term decision. I know that's a cliche phrase, but seriously--oil is old. There's not much left, for one, and yet a bigger share of people are demanding even more and more. It's a simple equation. We may not have the money to pay for things (which I would contest), we don't have the choice of not investing--and investing heavily--in alternative energy.

There's no benefit in delay.

[roche]

Some really stupid statements made in here. Most of them by one person.

Colinmac ? I wouldn't argue with you.

[Carolina.Alex]

Colinmac ? I wouldn't argue with you.

You said it, not me ;-)

[Holly HoX!]

I don't see discouraging investment in green energy now to the create jobs and the vital infrastructure of tomorrow to be a smart short-term decision. I know that's a cliche phrase, but seriously--oil is old. There's not much left, for one, and yet a bigger share of people are demanding even more and more. It's a simple equation. We may not have the money to pay for things (which I would contest), we don't have the choice of not investing--and investing heavily--in alternative energy.

There's no benefit in delay.

to set the record straight, i never said halt all investments in alternative energy. and if that's how you read any of my post i'm sorry for being confusing. in fact, i reiterated the fact that there is millions of dollars constantly being used for that purpose and that isn't going to change. and it's much more complex than just saying "a lot of people demand it, there's not a lot left, let's not use it."

like heating my house when it's fucking -30 outside.

[Holly HoX!]

You said it, not me ;-)

he's just completely misinformed or uneducated or ignorant. whatever the case, it may not be entirely his fault. or maybe it is haha.

[Carolina.Alex]

he's just completely misinformed or uneducated or ignorant. whatever the case, it may not be entirely his fault. or maybe it is haha.

I would use the term "xenophobic, ignorant nationalist."

[Holly HoX!]

I would use the term "xenophobic, ignorant nationalist."

harsh. harsh, but true. what a honky.

[saysmydoctor]

I think he is shallow and pendantic.

[Carolina.Alex]

Yes, quite shallow and pedantic.

[bandnamexmyname]

Ignorance abounds

[domotime2]

Yes, quite shallow and pedantic.
ha

[zion the lion]

I would use the term "xenophobic, ignorant nationalist."

He's just young (he's probably older than that one super smarty pants kid who I dont see around here anymore), his opinions will change sooner or later. If you ask me, it will be sooner rather than later if people stop insulting him.

[Carolina.Alex]

He's just young (he's probably older than that one super smarty pants kid who I dont see around here anymore), his opinions will change sooner or later. If you ask me, it will be sooner rather than later if people stop insulting him.

SKM? And he's only a year or so younger than us, that's not a very good excuse.

[deFobbed14yrs]

SKM is so smart. I always thought he lied about his age and was really like 43.

[Colinmac36]

it would never happen, and you're ignorant. take a seat and learn something.
alright ya arse calm down

[Carolina.Alex]

Please tell me you're joking, that kid was a shithead.

[Colinmac36]

You said it, not me ;-)
whatever dude, you're always starting shit im sick of you.

[Holly HoX!]

alright ya arse calm down

calm as a clam, my man

[saysmydoctor]

We have illegal PL forum immigrants or something.

[zion the lion]

SKM? And he's only a year or so younger than us, that's not a very good excuse.

No, I think his name is Matt, he's like 16 and amazingly smart. Unless that's SKM.

Well cut him some slack and kindly educate him.

[cubsml34]

Gas by me in Cook County is 3.60, in the city it's around 3.70 or more and spose to go up

[Colinmac36]

We have illegal PL forum immigrants or something.

this

[Colinmac36]

I would use the term "xenophobic, ignorant nationalist."

how bout you all leave me the fuck alone im sick of fucking taking all this shit because my views are different. why dont u just accept that. and yes i am a nationalist sorry why dont u fucking arrest me for loving my country? it sickens me that i am the only patriotic person on this whole site. all of you should just fuck off.

[Colinmac36]

when i go into these political forums its to get away from the stupid assholes in personal life so alex.carolina why dont you go back to your stupid fucking hole in the PL thread and not come out. jesus christ ive never met someone so set on pissing someone off youre a scum of the earth low life pussbag twat cunt motherfucker.

[Carolina.Alex]

You should probably check your blood pressure.

[Scrandon]

So, uh, how 'bout that oil?

[Sunmaid]

how bout you all leave me the fuck alone im sick of fucking taking all this shit because my views are different. why dont u just accept that. and yes i am a nationalist sorry why dont u fucking arrest me for loving my country? it sickens me that i am the only patriotic person on this whole site. all of you should just fuck off.

sWS-FoXbjVI

[Carolina.Alex]

I like how he thinks it's only me and you that get onto him when plenty of people in this thread just called him out on his stupidity.

[Sunmaid]

I like how he thinks it's only me and you that get onto him when plenty of people in this thread just called him out on his stupidity.
yeah but we're gay bros and he's homophobic so he takes issue with us <3

[Carolina.Alex]

yeah but we're gay bros and he's homophobic so he takes issue with us <3

Hahahaha I knew you were gay, but I'm not homophobic, but you're totally gay because you act like a little bitch


AMERICA

[saysmydoctor]

So, uh, how 'bout that oil?
What, bitch you cookin'?

[Scrandon]

What, bitch you cookin'?
:rotfl:

[EchoPark]

I've always wondered why people with progressive political viewpoints are demonized as un-patriotic and anti-American.

This is as far from the truth as can be for all of the progressive liberals I've met in my lifetime.

[Zeran]

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE OIL

x
lol
They're in no hurry to do so. They've shown their political muscle in preventing any kind of legislation that would hinder their profits and they're in collusion with one another. The point at which I envision them actually shifting to alternative fuels will be when the crisis has already hit us the hardest.
this seems much more plausible.
This is another reason why we need to create a strong energy market in the United States. The fact that we have to pay nearly 10-20% more a gallon just because of someone's problems that aren't our problem just sucks. Now I am all for equality and freedom for everyone in every country but the fact that we are suppose to be the top country in the world and yet we still rely on other countries so badly makes no sense.
I wish we could just make all vehicles get a minimum of 100 mpg and raise the gas prices to $8 a gallon. Use less and the oil companies and car companies make money and the people benefit as well as the earth. We use less and the oil industry will last longer. Makes sense to me...
If we cut the amount we are using by 80% we can not have to get oil from the middle east.

alternative energy is good, but i'd also like to see massive infrastructure improvements and growth in things like high-speed rail and public transportation, bike lanes in cities, etc.

[selftitled85]

the current middle east unrest (Libya) is the problem, not the consumption. thinking of alternatives is a great idea in theory, but it isn't feasible right now. face the facts.

It isn't feasible now. But it will be soon. The reason it is not feasible is because crude prices had been low for most of the past two decades. Prices only recently have skyrocketed. But, prices are expected to stay well above $100 a barrel from here on out meaning that while the cost for alternative resources may still be a little higher than that of crude, the gap has grown far smaller and, in the future, could completely disappear.

[caveBEAR]

the current middle east unrest (Libya) is the problem, not the consumption. thinking of alternatives is a great idea in theory, but it isn't feasible right now. face the facts.

Right? These assholes over there not wanting to live under a tyrant, don't they know the Hummer needs gas to go?

[mattgoods]

Halliburton is pulling the strings in the Middle East. Therein lies the problem.

[gsplug]

No one can contrl the situation,which is fixed with politics and market natrual rule.
We acts as consumers and if we want to use the oil and related products,we have to pay it.
All in all,only if one day people can drive new enegy car.Then the situation will be terminated.
But it is a long long time later.Because there are still many oil under earth.
What my worry is that the weather will be hotter year after year.
But also I am worrying,if one day,people use new energy ,so my glow plug (http://www.cn-glowplug.com)for diesel engine and spark plug (http://www.cn-glowplug.com) for gas engine will be over.
I hope in my life time,I will never see it happen.
Fushi glow plug and spark plug staff write the message.

[caveBEAR]

Fuckin' China...

[Nuns On A Bus]

In that case I guess we better never switch to renewable energy. Just think about people like gsplug!

[gsplug]

Fuckin' China...
Pls behave yourselves.

[gsplug]

In that case I guess we better never switch to renewable energy. Just think about people like gsplug!
No,I do not mean that.
We need new energy such as solar energy.

[caveBEAR]

Pls behave yourselves.

Fuckin' China...

[FueledByFrodo]

I would be more concerned about the impending oil crisis but:

1. People are dying and that's far more important.
2. I'm tired of repeating the oft uttered "invest in alternative energy because oil won't always be there" phrase. Maybe it actually requires the absence of oil to drive the point home. The only thing I never tire of repeating is "I told you so."
I'm so glad my future major/job will be in alternative energy.

[jawstheme]

No one can contrl the situation,which is fixed with politics and market natrual rule.
We acts as consumers and if we want to use the oil and related products,we have to pay it.
All in all,only if one day people can drive new enegy car.Then the situation will be terminated.
But it is a long long time later.Because there are still many oil under earth.
What my worry is that the weather will be hotter year after year.
But also I am worrying,if one day,people use new energy ,so my glow plug (http://www.cn-glowplug.com)for diesel engine and spark plug (http://www.cn-glowplug.com) for gas engine will be over.
I hope in my life time,I will never see it happen.
Fushi glow plug and spark plug staff write the message.

It's these rare post gems that keep me coming back to this site.

[selftitled85]

It's these rare post gems that keep me coming back to this site.

At the same time the person is obviously not American. They can for the most part post an entire paragraph in another language. Something I would almost guarantee 3/4 or more of us can't do. Please, if you are going to make fun of China, do it for reasons that simply make us look stupid.

[gsplug]

Fuckin' China...
As a well educated person like you.every time you said fuck fuck.You make me sick.
Is it the target of your country's education systerm to teach everyone to fuck or said fuck you and agaist other?
In China,we never said any sick word like "fuck" to anybody,and we respect people each other.Even though,we have different opinion.
And also may Chinese think American has good virtue.I also have trong believe in this.
But from you,I see how American people is.

[Carolina.Alex]

If you came to AP to get a good register of the American people, you made a mistake.

[zion the lion]

If you came to AP to get a good register of the American people, you made a mistake.

No, this is a pretty good example of America, the people cant stop trying to rip each other apart for more than five minutes all while insulting everyone's intelligence.

[Carolina.Alex]

If people weren't so fucking stupid...

[Holly HoX!]

Right? These assholes over there not wanting to live under a tyrant, don't they know the Hummer needs gas to go?


hmm, that is completely taking my comment the wrong way and putting words in my mouth.

[caveBEAR]

As a well educated person like you.every time you said fuck fuck.You make me sick.
Is it the target of your country's education systerm to teach everyone to fuck or said fuck you and agaist other?
In China,we never said any sick word like "fuck" to anybody,and we respect people each other.Even though,we have different opinion.
And also may Chinese think American has good virtue.I also have trong believe in this.
But from you,I see how American people is.

:crackup:

Fuckin' China...

[caveBEAR]

hmm, that is completely taking my comment the wrong way and putting words in my mouth.

My apologies. My comment was directed towards people who are more concerned about gas prices than people gaining freedom. If you're not one of those people, then I apologize, and have no quarrel with you.

[zion the lion]

If people weren't so fucking stupid...

You've yet to do anything but insult people. I've never seen you even try to correct them in a nice way, all you do is go after their intelligence and how far they went in their education.

[domotime2]

im concerned. playing it off as not concerning is foolish.

[David87]

Buy some silver folks, invest in your future. aint gonna go no where but up in the long run


It's a hell of a lot cheaper right now than buying a couple barrels of oil lol

[caveBEAR]

Who invited Glenn Beck?

[jawstheme]

At the same time the person is obviously not American. They can for the most part post an entire paragraph in another language. Something I would almost guarantee 3/4 or more of us can't do. Please, if you are going to make fun of China, do it for reasons that simply make us look stupid.

Uh, I wasn't making fun of China. I was saying how great that post was for going from the oil crisis, to global warming, to a "glow plug" that his company makes with seamless flow. But thanks.

[saysmydoctor]

Who invited Glenn Beck?
He doesn't need an invite, RSVP is just a latin way of spelling "socialism."

[Colinmac36]

As a well educated person like you.every time you said fuck fuck.You make me sick.
Is it the target of your country's education systerm to teach everyone to fuck or said fuck you and agaist other?
In China,we never said any sick word like "fuck" to anybody,and we respect people each other.Even though,we have different opinion.
And also may Chinese think American has good virtue.I also have trong believe in this.
But from you,I see how American people is.
i wish more people were like you.

[yeahdude]

Here's a novel idea. Drill in the US. Alaska, Texas, Montana, California and the Gulf would totally sustain us, take us off foreign oil, and in the meantime we create jobs and money for the govt to create a surplus and in turn use to invest in alternative energy methods in the meantime. The planet won't die, I promise.
Every other country that has oil utilizes it. We don't. Our auto industry sucks and environmentalists are killing our economy. Not everyone vehicle can run efficiently on hybrid/solar/biofuel yet. Semi trucks and planes for example, are involved in shipping goods, as gas goes up so does the price of goods that get shipped, therefore creating higher prices for the consumer. If we could harness our own shit instead of wasting time, money, energy in the middle east, we would be better for it in about 5 years.

[inthemidst]

Here's a novel idea. Drill in the US. Alaska, Texas, Montana, California and the Gulf would totally sustain us, take us off foreign oil, and in the meantime we create jobs and money for the govt to create a surplus and in turn use to invest in alternative energy methods in the meantime. The planet won't die, I promise.
Every other country that has oil utilizes it. We don't. Our auto industry sucks and environmentalists are killing our economy. Not everyone vehicle can run efficiently on hybrid/solar/biofuel yet. Semi trucks and planes for example, are involved in shipping goods, as gas goes up so does the price of goods that get shipped, therefore creating higher prices for the consumer. If we could harness our own shit instead of wasting time, money, energy in the middle east, we would be better for it in about 5 years.

That's too easy for our government.

[selftitled85]

Here's a novel idea. Drill in the US. Alaska, Texas, Montana, California and the Gulf would totally sustain us, take us off foreign oil, and in the meantime we create jobs and money for the govt to create a surplus and in turn use to invest in alternative energy methods in the meantime. The planet won't die, I promise.
Every other country that has oil utilizes it. We don't. Our auto industry sucks and environmentalists are killing our economy. Not everyone vehicle can run efficiently on hybrid/solar/biofuel yet. Semi trucks and planes for example, are involved in shipping goods, as gas goes up so does the price of goods that get shipped, therefore creating higher prices for the consumer. If we could harness our own shit instead of wasting time, money, energy in the middle east, we would be better for it in about 5 years.

Not easy as you think.


In Alaska you have all the environmental land which they cannot touch (for good reason.) Drilling for oil absolutely destroys area. Montana has some oil sand but not much else. Oil sand, on top of being really really awful quality oil, is very expensive to refine due to it having higher sulfur content, being extracted in a form not conducive to pipe travel, and is far more expensive to extract. Texas already has a done of drilling going on. Not sure what else you expect them to do.

The Gulf is an entirely different monster. Most of the oil in the Gulf is located far off shore miles underground. That oil spill we had this past year is not some random never going to happen again instant. We don't have a system in place that can keep the rigs safe and the workers safe or the environment safe. We are leaving ourselves open for another massive spill.

Now you also must realize that many energy analysts have stated that the US has already peaked in oil production. We will continue producing it essentially forever but the amount we produce will not top what we did in the 70's because we tapped all the readily available sources. Drilling deep is more pricey and more difficult. You can't just stick a rig in the water and turn it on and lo and behold Oil!!!. You have to drill, search, move, drill, search, etc. It takes a long time.

[loveisdead]

High speed rail is looking really good (http://www.cnbc.com/id/41831750) right about now.

[FueledByFrodo]

God, I hope ten years from now we've shifted towards nuclear energy. But I plan on going to school to become a nuclear engineer, so I'm a little biased.

[caveBEAR]

Not easy as you think.


In Alaska you have all the environmental land which they cannot touch (for good reason.) Drilling for oil absolutely destroys area. Montana has some oil sand but not much else. Oil sand, on top of being really really awful quality oil, is very expensive to refine due to it having higher sulfur content, being extracted in a form not conducive to pipe travel, and is far more expensive to extract. Texas already has a done of drilling going on. Not sure what else you expect them to do.

The Gulf is an entirely different monster. Most of the oil in the Gulf is located far off shore miles underground. That oil spill we had this past year is not some random never going to happen again instant. We don't have a system in place that can keep the rigs safe and the workers safe or the environment safe. We are leaving ourselves open for another massive spill.

Now you also must realize that many energy analysts have stated that the US has already peaked in oil production. We will continue producing it essentially forever but the amount we produce will not top what we did in the 70's because we tapped all the readily available sources. Drilling deep is more pricey and more difficult. You can't just stick a rig in the water and turn it on and lo and behold Oil!!!. You have to drill, search, move, drill, search, etc. It takes a long time.

But saying 'drill, baby, drill!' makes it seem so simple...
:rolleyes:

[Nuns On A Bus]

God, I hope ten years from now we've shifted towards nuclear energy. But I plan on going to school to become a nuclear engineer, so I'm a little biased.

You're not alone...

[domotime2]

you know those people who say "i hope gas prices go up so much that people stop driving and then we're forced to find alternative sources" fuck that. unless we're talking a society revolution here, i don't plan on spending half my paycheck on getting to work everyday

[Colinmac36]

God, I hope ten years from now we've shifted towards nuclear energy. But I plan on going to school to become a nuclear engineer, so I'm a little biased.
the only bad thing about it is, that the little waste that it does produce their is no way known yet to dispose of it properly so it just sits there, and can be potentially extremely dangerous. However, i do agree that nuclear energy and alternative energy sources are great and we need to start using them more effectively soon.

[saysmydoctor]

I've become more and more a supporter of nuclear energy, though I have some serious concerns about the waste and risk of disaster.

[hunjik]

The only reason the oil prices are going up is because the crude oil from Lybia is some of the best in the world if it wasn't then it would be fine because they only produce about 2% of the worlds oil.
the oil spill at gulf of Mexico occurred recently may also be responsible for prices going high.

[caveBEAR]

I've become more and more a supporter of nuclear energy, though I have some serious concerns about the waste and risk of disaster.

I'm by far no expert, but I was under the impression that the risk of disaster is much lower than most news outlets/politicians/what-have-you like to make it out to be?

:shrug:

[jakeyrotten]

the price is crude oil is not only determined by supply/demand, but also by pyschology. The only reason crude prices have spiked recently is b/c the perception of what's going on in the middle east. It's not costing BP or ExxonMobil any more $ to ship crude to their markets. It's the fear that civil wars in SE Asia will make it cost more to obtain crude oil, thus the markets reflect that fear. which equals high gas prices.

[saysmydoctor]

I'm by far no expert, but I was under the impression that the risk of disaster is much lower than most news outlets/politicians/what-have-you like to make it out to be?

:shrug:
Probably. But, slight as the chance may be, if it were to occur--what can we really do? It's nuclear waste. That kind of contamination becomes a long-term issue. It's a serious concern that warrants consideration. Now I don't know anything about new technologies in waste management, so I won't postulate any further, but that's my issue with nuclear energy.

Also, the start-up costs are through the fucking roof and beyond, but I think the return makes such an investment worth it. But still, quite the investment.

[saysmydoctor]

the price is crude oil is not only determined by supply/demand, but also by pyschology. The only reason crude prices have spiked recently is b/c the perception of what's going on in the middle east. It's not costing BP or ExxonMobil any more $ to ship crude to their markets. It's the fear that civil wars in SE Asia will make it cost more to obtain crude oil, thus the markets reflect that fear. which equals high gas prices.
Yup. Isn't really more expensive to produce and ship, but it just FEELS more expensive, therefore it is.

I wish this is how pay worked in the retail industry. Sure the work isn't hard, but it FEELS hard because I have to put up with my fellow human beings, most of whom are gigantic idiots.

[Scrandon]

I'm wondering how related this is to the current instability in the Middle East. http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9LMFVJG0.htm

[caveBEAR]

Probably. But, slight as the chance may be, if it were to occur--what can we really do? It's nuclear waste. That kind of contamination becomes a long-term issue. It's a serious concern that warrants consideration. Now I don't know anything about new technologies in waste management, so I won't postulate any further, but that's my issue with nuclear energy.

Like you, I can't really go into it, because I don't know, but what I remember from what I looked into, it's pretty damn safe. A disaster would be horrible, but it seems like there's a reason Chernobyl was in Russia during the Cold War...

Also, the start-up costs are through the fucking roof and beyond, but I think the return makes such an investment worth it. But still, quite the investment.

Indeed. Seems to me like a good place for some of those defense bucks to go...

[saysmydoctor]

I'm thinking of more recent incidents like Three Mile Island. I know they're rare, I'd just hope that those running nuclear facilities have a contingency plan unlike say...BP.

[secretsociety92]

I've become more and more a supporter of nuclear energy, though I have some serious concerns about the waste and risk of disaster.
Though there is enough uranium to last a century (at current consumption rates) I doubt nuclear power will become a long term alternative once fossil fuels start to run out.

[caveBEAR]

I'm thinking of more recent incidents like Three Mile Island. I know they're rare, I'd just hope that those running nuclear facilities have a contingency plan unlike say...BP.

Agreed, but that's going to take a change in the attitudes of politicians who feel that government has no right infringing on the private sector. If nuclear energy ended up in the private sector (much like drilling) than it would need tons more oversight from people who give a shit about safety and don't give a shit about said company.

[jakeyrotten]

I think what a lot of ppl don't realize in regards to alternative energy sources is that is has to be economically feasible. This IS a capitalist country after all, there's not going to be high-speed rail, solar panels on every building, ethanol cars, etc until someone starts making money off it. That's why we're still on fossil fuels, not b/c there's some grand conspiracy to keep us dependent on forgien oil. Believe me, the politicians in DC are not happy about having to rely on countries that in all honesty would destroy us (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan) if they got a chance. It's not in the interests of national security. Just like Obama said, what we need now more than ever is some old-fashioned American Innovation. The USA that gave us planes, cars, the internet is slowly fading away. What was once a star shining brightly is now more akin to the last dying ember of a bonfire.

[Scrandon]

I think what a lot of ppl don't realize in regards to alternative energy sources is that is has to be economically feasible. This IS a capitalist country after all, there's not going to be high-speed rail, solar panels on every building, ethanol cars, etc until someone starts making money off it. That's why we're still on fossil fuels, not b/c there's some grand conspiracy to keep us dependent on forgien oil. Believe me, the politicians in DC are not happy about having to rely on countries that in all honesty would destroy us (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan) if they got a chance. It's not in the interests of national security. Just like Obama said, what we need now more than ever is some old-fashioned American Innovation. The USA that gave us planes, cars, the internet is slowly fading away. What was once a star shining brightly is now more akin to the last dying ember of a bonfire.
I'm gonna go weep myself to sleep in my bomb shelter now.

[saysmydoctor]

I think what a lot of ppl don't realize in regards to alternative energy sources is that is has to be economically feasible. This IS a capitalist country after all, there's not going to be high-speed rail, solar panels on every building, ethanol cars, etc until someone starts making money off it. That's why we're still on fossil fuels, not b/c there's some grand conspiracy to keep us dependent on forgien oil. Believe me, the politicians in DC are not happy about having to rely on countries that in all honesty would destroy us (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan) if they got a chance. It's not in the interests of national security. Just like Obama said, what we need now more than ever is some old-fashioned American Innovation. The USA that gave us planes, cars, the internet is slowly fading away. What was once a star shining brightly is now more akin to the last dying ember of a bonfire.
It is economically feasible. What isn't feasible is devoting ourselves and making our economy dependent on something that has a short lifespan.

[jakeyrotten]

I'm gonna go weep myself to sleep in my bomb shelter now.


lol umm ok, good luck with that. bring some canned food

[jakeyrotten]

It is economically feasible. What isn't feasible is devoting ourselves and making our economy dependent on something that has a short lifespan.


I agree. Maybe feasible wasn't the right word. I think "profitable" is closer to what I was getting at.

[saysmydoctor]

I agree. Maybe feasible wasn't the right word. I think "profitable" is closer to what I was getting at.
I'm not sure how converting from fossil fuels to alternative renewable energy isn't profitable. Sure, upfront, it'll be quite the investment. But long-term, it'll be a huge return.

[jakeyrotten]

I'm not sure how converting from fossil fuels to alternative renewable energy isn't profitable. Sure, upfront, it'll be quite the investment. But long-term, it'll be a huge return.


What I meant was, the intergration and deployment of renewable energy soucres into everyday life won't happen until a company shows that it can be profitable.