Since 1990

[BustaNutz]

Here are some questions:

After 1990 what band would you say has had the most influence on modern music (Rock or Hip-Hop, just music in general)?

What are your top 5 albums since 1990?

What song has been your favorite in that time?

And this is the interesting one, before the 90's, people were making music which was withstanding the test of time. The Beatles, Elvis, The Rolling Stones, Sinatra, Bennett and even some more contemporary artists like Michael Jackson and Madonna, have all made music which will continue to survive the test of time. Recently I have not heard anything which really strikes me as something which will one day become classic. Do you think the music industry as a whole (not just in specific genres) is stagnant? Or do you think that there will be music from this current era which will one day be considered classic, and will be replayed over and over?

I think part of the problem (if you don't mind me beginning this debate) is that the hip-hop genre doesn't come up with anything new, they sample. So while the lyrics may be new, the actual music itself is just from older songs. I think this has contributed to the stagnation. Also I think that popular culture has made it so that bands are trying to be the same rather than different. And the bands trying to be different aren't being given the oppurtuntiy to shine because mainstream america is looking for something specific. Back in the 60's and 70's, I think that music was more a form of expression (and much purer) than what it is today. There was no MTV and there was no one to tell us what ws popular, you really had to be good to transcend music. Nowadays all that is neccasary is a publicist and some money for advertising...

[angie710]

Holy Hell you're a fucking genius...

Ok......1990 and after..

First off...I agree with what you're saying regarding the sampling in Hip-Hop...There are very, very few original hip-hop artist that have that sound...I believe Tupac was the mastermind behind the best of lyricism...in that aspect...

I cant think of too many bands that have made a HUGE impact on the mainstream rock scene, or any genre for that matter after 1990...I would say Metallica, but they lost it after the Black Album.... This is something I have to think about...Ill get back with a better answer on Monday...

Oh, and NO... I do not believe that the music of today contains any form of longevity...and will soon fade out and into the same shit over and over again...There are a few key artists, but the reality is...Music will never be the same...They just dont make good quality music the way they used to...Ok...Im done for now...Busta...This is a great thread...Kudos to you sweetie...

[kevin]

Nice thread, Pat.

Nirvana, by far, has the most influence on modern rock. What band wasn't influenced by Nevermind?

Top five albums since 1990.

1)Radiohead - Ok Computer
The band's best which probably won't be topped. It's experimental and far more original than anything that decade. It put them on a whole higher level than everyone else.

2)Nirvana - Nevermind
Everyone could relate to this band and Cobain's lyrics. It has influenced nearly everyone since.

3)REM - Out of Time
Losing My Religion crossed this band over into the mainstream. Another reallly influential album.

4)Red Hot Chili Peppers - Blood Sugar Sex Magik
This was the pinnacle of their career. They, also, took Mainstream Rock to a higher level.

5)Pavement - Slanted And Enchanted
Possibly the best Indie Rock band of the 1990's. This was their debut album which really set the standard for Indie Rock at the time.

My favorite song of the 1990's, along with nearly everyone else, is Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit. Perfect song. Perfect Video. Perfect band.

I think Radiohead, Beck, REM, Red Hot Chili Peppers, The Flaming Lips and Nirvana's stuff will maybe be looked back upon as classic.

As for Hip Hop. No one speaks the truth anymore. Most of them rap about their posessions. Artists like Tupac and Notorious B.I.G. had intelligent, and sometimes politically motivated lyrics, who really put life into perspective. That is why they are the two best rappers of all-time.

[AudioBoxers]

After 1990 what band would you say has had the most influence on modern music (Rock or Hip-Hop, just music in general)? -

I dont know, Nirvana is one of course. I do listen and read tons of interviews and by doing that I have heard tons of bands and people say 2-pac. Even though he is a rapper and most people dont like rap, he influenced lives not music.

What are your top 5 albums since 1990?

All Red Hot Chilli Peppers

What song has been your favorite in that time?

Stairway to heaven and Californiacation

And this is the interesting one, before the 90's, people were making music which was withstanding the test of time. The Beatles, Elvis, The Rolling Stones, Sinatra, Bennett and even some more contemporary artists like Michael Jackson and Madonna, have all made music which will continue to survive the test of time. Recently I have not heard anything which really strikes me as something which will one day become classic. Do you think the music industry as a whole (not just in specific genres) is stagnant? Or do you think that there will be music from this current era which will one day be considered classic, and will be replayed over and over?


ummm yea I think alot of bands and people that have made a diff in the way people look at music, such as Marylin manson, Slipknot, R-Kelly people like that will!

I think part of the problem (if you don't mind me beginning this debate) is that the hip-hop genre doesn't come up with anything new, they sample. So while the lyrics may be new, the actual music itself is just from older songs. I think this has contributed to the stagnation. Also I think that popular culture has made it so that bands are trying to be the same rather than different. And the bands trying to be different aren't being given the oppurtuntiy to shine because mainstream america is looking for something specific. Back in the 60's and 70's, I think that music was more a form of expression (and much purer) than what it is today. There was no MTV and there was no one to tell us what ws popular, you really had to be good to transcend music. Nowadays all that is neccasary is a publicist and some money for advertising...

yes! I agree! The Doors

[Oxbig1106]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
Here are some questions:

After 1990 what band would you say has had the most influence on modern music (Rock or Hip-Hop, just music in general)?

What are your top 5 albums since 1990?

What song has been your favorite in that time?

And this is the interesting one, before the 90's, people were making music which was withstanding the test of time. The Beatles, Elvis, The Rolling Stones, Sinatra, Bennett and even some more contemporary artists like Michael Jackson and Madonna, have all made music which will continue to survive the test of time. Recently I have not heard anything which really strikes me as something which will one day become classic. Do you think the music industry as a whole (not just in specific genres) is stagnant? Or do you think that there will be music from this current era which will one day be considered classic, and will be replayed over and over?

I think part of the problem (if you don't mind me beginning this debate) is that the hip-hop genre doesn't come up with anything new, they sample. So while the lyrics may be new, the actual music itself is just from older songs. I think this has contributed to the stagnation. Also I think that popular culture has made it so that bands are trying to be the same rather than different. And the bands trying to be different aren't being given the oppurtuntiy to shine because mainstream america is looking for something specific. Back in the 60's and 70's, I think that music was more a form of expression (and much purer) than what it is today. There was no MTV and there was no one to tell us what ws popular, you really had to be good to transcend music. Nowadays all that is neccasary is a publicist and some money for advertising... I think dave matthews band will live the longest of the bands today. they are one of the few good bands that can sell out an arena

[AudioBoxers]

Originally posted by Oxbig1106
I think dave matthews band will live the longest of the bands today. they are one of the few good bands that can sell out an arena now where is the rest?

[proeuthanasia]

Originally posted by kevin
My favorite song of the 1990's, along with nearly everyone else, is Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit. Perfect song. Perfect Video. Perfect band.


actually, kurt said at one point that he hated the video because he felt it didn't relay his intended message in smells like teen spirit at all. in the end, he claimed that he had no say in how the video was made and that he wish it never had been aired. and i personally love the song, but think the video sucks. perfect song? sure. perfect band? ...maybe. perfect video? absolutely not.

[AudioBoxers]

Originally posted by proeuthanasia
actually, kurt said at one point that he hated the video because he felt it didn't relay his intended message in smells like teen spirit at all. in the end, he claimed that he had no say in how the video was made and that he wish it never had been aired. and i personally love the song, but think the video sucks. perfect song? sure. perfect band? ...maybe. perfect video? absolutely not. I agree!

[BustaNutz]

It's kind of like that song "Video Killed the Radio Star" (by the Buggles). The dawn of the music video and popular culture is really what has set about destroying the music industry. We now care about appearance and sex appeal than actual talent. A perfect example of this is The Mama's and the Papa's, if they were a current band their success would be much less due to the fact that they are not by today's standards an attractive band. Likewise someone like Britney Spears with no real talent is huge due to the fact she is very attractive.

The death of the music industry most likely began with American Bandstand. This was the first time we could consistently see bands and musicians on TV. This wasn't what killed the industry though, it really served a very good purpose, it introduced people to new music and showcased talent. The real killer was MTV, which even today is still largely responsible for the lack of quality in the industry. However, because American Bandstand undoubtedly played a large role in the conceptualization of MTV it really is where the entire downward spiral began...

[BrandNewDream]

I had a nice long reply typed, then my computer froze, so....

fuck it.

[AudioBoxers]

Originally posted by BrandNewDream
I had a nice long reply typed, then my computer froze, so....

fuck it. I hate it when that happens

[bigweener]

i didnt listen to music in the 90's.

[BuriedAlive]

well the music industry kinda killed themselves listen to cold - kill the music industry,


and if you guys wanna hear a song thats about the reaction of kurts death listen to cold - the day seattle died. (sorry i support florida bands)

[AudioBoxers]

but cold sends out some good messages

[BuriedAlive]

ya i knwo cold does. listen to cure my tragedy (a letter to god) written about his sister and how she has cancer and hes asking god to help him

also sad happy. its written about a girl who followed cold everywhere, she would do anything to get away from her dad who abused her and raped her. so scooter (the lead singer) bought her a condo and got her a job.

[AudioBoxers]

Originally posted by BuriedAlive
ya i knwo cold does. listen to cure my tragedy (a letter to god) written about his sister and how she has cancer and hes asking god to help him

also sad happy. its written about a girl who followed cold everywhere, she would do anything to get away from her dad who abused her and raped her. so scooter (the lead singer) bought her a condo and got her a job. Thats the only reason I listen to cold is cus of that reason

[BuriedAlive]

their new album is more of his own feelings. not of what he thinks other people are feeling as he did in the past. i think 13 ways to bleed on stage was a very good album. so is year of the spider. and they are every emotional and touching.

[AFittingLie]

First off, mainstream/MTV hip-hop is crap. Underground rap is very original and blows away anything the mainstream can offer. Just listen to Aesop Rock (and he's white).

Nirvana is overrated as hell. Kurt was a bad vocalist, a simple guitar player, and wrote average lyrics. They are not some revolutionary band. They didn't "kill" glam/hair metal. That garbage was on it's last leg and was it's own killer. Bands like Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and Alice In Chains kill them, but they don't get nearly as much credit. And really, where has Nirvana's influence gone now? You don't hear that stuff anymore. It was just a phase in music, and MTV just happened to pick Nirvana to jock for a few years.

[AFittingLie]

Music has come a long way since 1990. Bunch of different genres have been shaped and evolved and many more created. Music should keep getting better. Just don't look towards the mainstream for anything interesting. I'd take a band like Modest Mouse over The White Stripes any day. Post-rock music and lots of indie rock is very experimental and at the same time catchy enough to appeal to a mass amount of listeners. I'm surprised more bands haven't broke yet.

[pUnKrOcKgIrL917]

i just think that pop music has been really, really taking over lately, and unfortunately, that that will be the only thing that will be remembered. as much as i hate to say it, "artists" like britney spears are going to be the only thing that will stay, in the same style that michael jackson and madonna have. plus, madonna and michael jackson have been introduced to the younger generations as the two greatest artists ever. also, pop is portrayed as the good life, the glamorous life, and people become obssessed with that notion and want more of it. the pop community has grown to be much, much larger than the rock community. there hasn't really been anything from rock that has been able to appeal to the masses without being pop, except nirvana. i know people who swear against rock but love nirvana. in conclusion, nirvana was probably the most influential band of the 90s. and the best song was "smells like teen spirit".

p.s. hip-hop has gone to shit.

[AFittingLie]

Do you live in a cave? Britney's 15 minutes are up. It's all about shitty pop-rap and R&B now. Pop music doesn't mean much. Why do you think all the big boy-bands broke up and pursued crappy solo careers? That pop stuff doesn't sell anymore. If you don't sound like 50 Cent or Good Charlotte, you're not going to sell much as a newer artist in the business.

[BuriedAlive]

"smells like teen spirit" was not their greatest song only the one most people remembered. if you ask me heart-shaped box is their greatest song. "I wish I could eat your cancer when you turn black" that song was great.

[pUnKrOcKgIrL917]

what i mean is that the pop of the 90s will be remembered. "baby one more time" will always be around and used in movies or whatever, similar to "like a virgin". and i don't know if her 15 mins. are up. i'd like to say they are, but i think she's still got time left. trust me, i would like nothing more than to see her eaten alive by savage tree-hugging babies with razors for teeth.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by pUnKrOcKgIrL917
what i mean is that the pop of the 90s will be remembered. "baby one more time" will always be around and used in movies or whatever, similar to "like a virgin". and i don't know if her 15 mins. are up. i'd like to say they are, but i think she's still got time left. trust me, i would like nothing more than to see her eaten alive by savage tree-hugging babies with razors for teeth.


No! You're wrong I'm sorry. Britney Spears is not going to survive the test of time. Neither will Aguilera, Timberlake, GC or 50 cent. After giving it some thought, here are the bands and artists who have the ability to stay "golden" well after they retire.

Dave Matthews Band- I know they catch a lot of shit here, specifically from Devin, but they are a talented band, with pretty good lyrics who have been around for a little while and can still sell out an arena. They'll most likely be one of the bands we hear on "oldies" stations when we're 40.

Nas- I don't typically like rap, but Nas is extraordinary. If you haven't given this man a chance, I recommend you do so. His lyrics are petic and truthful and he sells by virtue of the fact he puts a lot into his music and as a result you cna get something out of it.

Metallica- Yuck. I really dislike Metallica, but they did do a lot for rock and up until recently were a solid band album after album. The fact that they are largely responsible for the downfall of file-sharing will most likely be forgotten.

Mariah Carey- Yes this is just disgusting, but quite unfortunately it is true. She has had longevity and is credited with aving a great vocal range. I really hope she is forgotten entirely, but due to her voice she will in all likelihood endure the test of time. (Celine Dion is much the same way).

These are the only four artists I can think of. A case can be made for R.E.M. and Soundgarden as well as a few other pop vocalists, but this is really the only group that will have any luck suriving as time goes on...

[Ronin]

Pearl Jam will be remembered

[punkermcghee]

Originally posted by BustaNutz

I think part of the problem (if you don't mind me beginning this debate) is that the hip-hop genre doesn't come up with anything new, they sample. So while the lyrics may be new, the actual music itself is just from older songs. I think this has contributed to the stagnation.

I'd have to disagree with that. I don't know how into your hip hop you are but the true musical artist of hip hop production (Pete Rock, DJ Premier, Marley Marl, Diamond D) literally devote their lives to uncovering rare and unused samples. I think that in many respects sampling is only limited the same way a guitarist is limited by chords. You can chop up a sample until it is entirely unrecognisable from the original, you can do so much to it that if you gave 10 GOOD hip hop producers the same sample to use they would come up with 10 different sounding beats, which you might not even be able to tell used the same sample if you weren't paying attention.
In fact during the 1990's hip hop music produced more classics solely within the hip hop genre than I think ANY other type of music has done in that space of time.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by punkermcghee
I'd have to disagree with that. I don't know how into your hip hop you are but the true musical artist of hip hop production (Pete Rock, DJ Premier, Marley Marl, Diamond D) literally devote their lives to uncovering rare and unused samples. I think that in many respects sampling is only limited the same way a guitarist is limited by chords. You can chop up a sample until it is entirely unrecognisable from the original, you can do so much to it that if you gave 10 GOOD hip hop producers the same sample to use they would come up with 10 different sounding beats, which you might not even be able to tell used the same sample if you weren't paying attention.
In fact during the 1990's hip hop music produced more classics solely within the hip hop genre than I think ANY other type of music has done in that space of time.

I follow hip-hop vaguely. But I do have some knowledge. I do know (as was mentioned earlier) the underground hip-hop scene is amazing. Having never been to a show I can't say first hand, but I have always heard that it is very much like the indie-rock scene just a bit purer. And I realize that there are many very good dj's and mc's who can sample extremely well. My problem didn't lie with them though, and this is my fault for over-generalizing. My beef lies with the newer artists like a fabulous or a mase or even puff daddy who use the exact same song as was used before only it is now dubbed over. This isn't music, it's dubbing. I understand there are artists who do a fabulous job sampling and coming up with new beats. I apologize for not specifiying more clearly.

[nostalgia]

You remember what you like.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by nostalgia
You remember what you like.

I wasn't speaking individually, I meant more what will be considered classic of the last decade in twenty years. Much like the Beatles were classic in the 60's. I was discussing what bands would be considered a "classic 90's group" twenty years from now. I realize that to a degree it is subjective to your own tastes.

I also listed the above bands as a starter, feel free to add your own bands and opinions...

[Tom Foolery]

I think Britney Spears will be remembered much the same way that Madonna is remembered from the 80's. She sucks, but she has broken enough album sales records to ensure her place in music history. A lot of the pop artists will be remembered the way we remember artists like David Cassidy and what's-his-face. You don't hear them on the Oldies station but you see them on VH1's Greatest Teen Heartthrobs countdowns and the like.

Radiohead and Nirvana are the two bands of the 90's that I can see really standing the test of time. Pearl Jam, U2, REM, and Dave Matthews will probably also have a place in years to come. These are bands were the powerhouses of the 90's, regardless of my personal distaste for their music.

Will anyone remember Dishwalla and C&C Music Factory in 20 years?

[punkermcghee]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
I follow hip-hop vaguely. But I do have some knowledge. I do know (as was mentioned earlier) the underground hip-hop scene is amazing. Having never been to a show I can't say first hand, but I have always heard that it is very much like the indie-rock scene just a bit purer. And I realize that there are many very good dj's and mc's who can sample extremely well. My problem didn't lie with them though, and this is my fault for over-generalizing. My beef lies with the newer artists like a fabulous or a mase or even puff daddy who use the exact same song as was used before only it is now dubbed over. This isn't music, it's dubbing. I understand there are artists who do a fabulous job sampling and coming up with new beats. I apologize for not specifiying more clearly.

Oh yeah I agree completely. I mean people like that take the actual skill and art out of the music alltogether. The problem is that unfortunately people who don't know or follow the genre take that as being representative of the entire genre, especially label A&R's who seem to feed off the most dire shite and make 500 clones of it.
I mean to an extent people are right, all sampling is is cutting up old songs and putting them back together but there's so much more to it than that.
I mean it's like the people that say all punk is is someone singing about girls over a handful of chords being repeated. In a way that is often true, but there is SO much more to it than that that is really hard to express unless your into the genre. How could you explain to someone who doesn't know the difference between Good Charlotte and The Movielife?

I do agree that these modern rappers and modern 'punk' bands are stagnating the genres because their not just selling the music anymore, the record companies are using them to sell an image. It's like Somewhere along the line wearing a mesh cap and a wristband became much more 'punk' than actually listening to punk. Which is fucked up.

[punkermcghee]

In a way music has become as disposable as fashion. What's 'in' this month will not be cool in 6 months time. The major labels are churning out these generic clones to cash in on the latest trends while they are still considered cool.

The real saviours of music nowadays are the indie labels, but unfortunately only a handful ever get good distribution and so many classic albums are left undiscovered by the majority of the people. It's people like the users of these forums that are keeping good music alive by supporting bands who make music from the heart and for love not just for money.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by punkermcghee
Oh yeah I agree completely. I mean people like that take the actual skill and art out of the music alltogether. The problem is that unfortunately people who don't know or follow the genre take that as being representative of the entire genre, especially label A&R's who seem to feed off the most dire shite and make 500 clones of it.
I mean to an extent people are right, all sampling is is cutting up old songs and putting them back together but there's so much more to it than that.
I mean it's like the people that say all punk is is someone singing about girls over a handful of chords being repeated. In a way that is often true, but there is SO much more to it than that that is really hard to express unless your into the genre. How could you explain to someone who doesn't know the difference between Good Charlotte and The Movielife?

I do agree that these modern rappers and modern 'punk' bands are stagnating the genres because their not just selling the music anymore, the record companies are using them to sell an image. It's like Somewhere along the line wearing a mesh cap and a wristband became much more 'punk' than actually listening to punk. Which is fucked up.

I have a fairly limited knowledge of hip-hop. I will say though that as far as mainstream hip hop, Nas is the best thing going right now.

[BustaNutz]

And as far as the stagnation goes, it can all be rested squarely on the shoulders of MTV. Kids see the popular MTV bands and emulate them. That means all that we're going to get is similar artists. Rarely does something new and innovative arrive at MTV, and if it does they ship it off to MTV 2.

[punkermcghee]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
And as far as the stagnation goes, it can all be rested squarely on the shoulders of MTV. Kids see the popular MTV bands and emulate them. That means all that we're going to get is similar artists. Rarely does something new and innovative arrive at MTV, and if it does they ship it off to MTV 2.


Yeah I agree completely... again! :D

The thing you have to remember though is that only a fraction of people rise above the mediocrity of the music the radio spoon feeds them and actually seek out good music.

If nobody liked the crap they play on MTV then MTV wouldn't exist any more because nodoby would watch it.

The problem is that record labels have come up with the ingenious idea of marketing music as a fashion accessory. It's not actually listening to a piece of music that counts any more, it's haiving the album in your collection and buying into that particular lifestlye...

It's like:

"Wanna be punk? Buy this Good Charlotte CD and you can fit into this group over here!
Wanna be hip hop? Buy this Ja Rule CD then you fit in with these guys over here!
We don't give a shit if you actually listen to them or not, because we've got your money already!!"

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by punkermcghee
Yeah I agree completely... again! :D

The thing you have to remember though is that only a fraction of people rise above the mediocrity of the music the radio spoon feeds them and actually seek out good music.

If nobody liked the crap they play on MTV then MTV wouldn't exist any more because nodoby would watch it.

The problem is that record labels have come up with the ingenious idea of marketing music as a fashion accessory. It's not actually listening to a piece of music that counts any more, it's haiving the album in your collection and buying into that particular lifestlye...

It's like:

"Wanna be punk? Buy this Good Charlotte CD and you can fit into this group over here!
Wanna be hip hop? Buy this Ja Rule CD then you fit in with these guys over here!
We don't give a shit if you actually listen to them or not, because we've got your money already!!"

Exactly! If you have a publicist and a label which is willing you're going to be a star. I mean come on, how does a band as bad as a Good Charlotte or an artist as talentless as Fabulous get this much popularity? Well it's because they have marketing and monetary backing...

I think this "Pop-Culture" spoon feeding is all coming to its pinnacle now with the opening of the MTV store in Times Square. This store is literally going to sell fads. Which is essentially what you're buying when you purchase a band like a GC or a Mest. You're buying a fad which is all rage at the moment. The best artists transcend that. When the punk fad dies out, the bands which are left standing will be the ones we knew were good. The ones who break up and quit are the ones who were there for the popularity. It won't be long now either before music goes in another way.

[ca_e_me]

first things first:

1. BustaNutz, you are a genius and thank you for starting this thread.

2. BuriedAlive, "Heart Shaped Box" is f--king awesome.

okay, i think that nirvana, though perhaps "overrated", influenced an entire generation and to the majority of the population, is sort of the pinnacle of rebellion/rock/that sort of grouped together anti-pop lifestyle and music. does that make sense? so in that way, they will be lasting because people will be naming them as influences for years to come. kurt cobain is an icon for "pioneering" that grunge era and turning the domination of mtv from cheesy 80s pop to the whole grunge seattle-inspired scene.

i agree that metallica, while i have difficulty listening to them for extended periods of time, will also be one of the acts that last because they too (though sort of pre-1990) pioneered the break of metal into mainstream mtv material. plus, i think lars' conflict with napster will put them into the history books, though that is a completely different thread.

dave matthews band and radiohead, though not always completely mainstream, will last because they have a loyal (and older) fanbase and continue to put out good, and in radiohead's case especially, innovative music. radiohead almost sort of started their own genre, and for that at the very least, should be remembered.

the problem with today's music scene is that, aside from all the things bustanutz mentioned, labels seem to be targeting younger and younger audiences, whose tastes are fleeting. eleven and twelve year olds - no offense - don't know much about being loyal to an artist or a band they like. they like what they like when some big shot at a major label tells them to like it. and when the "next big thing" comes along, whether britney or 50 cent or good charlotte, they follow the trend and forget about the last "big thing".

not to mention that the quality of pop music today is just not cutting it.