Daily Racist Experiences

[Love As Arson]

The other day an individual I worked with referred to another worker as the n-word and when I pointed out that I was black, he reiterated the Chris Rock distinction between black people a n*ggers. This individual also said, "I hate Spanish people.We live in America, they need to speak American." To which I replied, "That is a nationality, not a language." Anyway, I think I underestimated the effect that it can have on me, as I assumed I'd be used to racist rhetoric, but it is incredibly dispiriting and depressing. I was surprised at how it made me feel even days after these incidents had occurred. In any event, this thread is for comments directed towards you or comments you have heard of the racist variety.

[xapplexpiex]

the Chris Rock distinction between black people a n*ggers. .
My dad is very racist and uses this as an excuse. When I get mad at him, he asks me why I'm mad because I'm not black. It went over his head.

[bNz719]

The other day in English, a guy said that having Muslim airport security was ironic and not more than ten minutes later, a girl said that gays should not be in the military because they will be more likely to rape other people. Made me want to :explode:

[allthruwinter]

The whole Chris Rock scenario is exactly why black people are stuck in this predicament. I am black and it burns me from the inside out when I hear other black people still using the n word towards each other. The Chris Rock thing only makes it worse b/c he is giving other races an excuse to continue to use bigotry. Another example is when Nas named his album N****er and expected people to just understand the point he was trying to make by naming his album that. It doesn't matter what reasoning you put behind using that language, you are giving everyone the okay to go ahead and use it as well. I've heard that word thrown around by all races my whole life, by people I considered friends, who said the same thing you did about how it didn't apply to 'all black people' and its disgusting. Ending ignorance ends with ourselves in our own communities and until that happens, shit's just going to keep getting worse.

[Love As Arson]

The whole Chris Rock scenario is exactly why black people are stuck in this predicament. I am black and it burns me from the inside out when I hear other black people still using the n word towards each other. The Chris Rock thing only makes it worse b/c he is giving other races an excuse to continue to use bigotry. Another example is when Nas named his album N****er and expected people to just understand the point he was trying to make by naming his album that. It doesn't matter what reasoning you put behind using that language, you are giving everyone the okay to go ahead and use it as well. I've heard that word thrown around by all races my whole life, by people I considered friends, who said the same thing you did about how it didn't apply to 'all black people' and its disgusting. Ending ignorance ends with ourselves in our own communities and until that happens, shit's just going to keep getting worse.
Honestly, I've no problem with the use of the term between African-Americans, so long as it is used in terms of camaraderie; that is, one has a best friend and refers to them as "my n*gga".

[allthruwinter]

Honestly, I've no problem with the use of the term between African-Americans, so long as it is used in terms of camaraderie; that is, one has a best friend and refers to them as "my n*gga".

You should have a problem with it. It's not endearing and its not friendly. It's detrimental to our growth as a race. We've managed to brainwash ourselves into thinking that and that's the saddest part.

[StepsInADance]

I'm hispanic and during the time when the Arizona Immigration law was being protested I went online a lot and looked up information on it. There was a lot of websites where people could leave comments, and some of them were the most hateful, ignorant comments ever. It was, as the OP said, pretty dispiriting.

[Love As Arson]

You should have a problem with it. It's not endearing and its not friendly. It's detrimental to our growth as a race. We've managed to brainwash ourselves into thinking that and that's the saddest part.
The word itself isn't the issue, it is a matter of what it represents, namely the material oppression of African-Americans.

[allthruwinter]

The word itself isn't the issue, it is a matter of what it represents, namely the material oppression of African-Americans.

Precisely. And as you just put it previously, saying someone is 'my *****' is just as ignorant sounding in my humble opinion. But agree to disagree.

[Dystroxia]

Precisely. And as you just put it previously, saying someone is 'my *****' is just as ignorant sounding in my humble opinion. But agree to disagree.

You would probably have a rage explosion if you lived down here because everyone says the n word except me

[Love As Arson]

Precisely. And as you just put it previously, saying someone is 'my *****' is just as ignorant sounding in my humble opinion. But agree to disagree.
I just think the reclamation of the word is important. That is not the same as endorsing others saying it.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Discovered this on Google maps the other day:

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii77/bradt53104/googlescreengrab.png

[Hail Lelouch]

The other day in English, a guy said that having Muslim airport security was ironic and not more than ten minutes later, a girl said that gays should not be in the military because they will be more likely to rape other people. Made me want to :explode:
Lol the fuck are these people

[Carolina.Alex]

A word is a word.

[brook183]

S9hZO-dQYww

[Buscemi Knows Best]

if black people don't want others to say that word, don't say it in front of us. it's simple really.

[TalkingtoMyself]

A word is a word.

grease is the word.

[SlappedActor]

A word is a word.

Thanks for the update, smart guy.

[Carolina.Alex]

Trying to be edgy by acting very passive-aggressive? Hmm.

[Bi11 Lumburgh]

you guys are too damn sensitive, they are just words.

It's not different than referring to white males as "whiteboys" or "crackers" and the fact that it's generally used in a condescending manner

People just need to get over themselves, yes racist people exist in this world in every nationality. But it's up to you, whether or not you choose to let the people affect you

[cubsml34]

Any minority at my school is treated as a novelty, and racist comments are a daily occurrence. I've become numb to it.

[J.C.]

I get called white boy when I'm hoopin' it up down at the old ballyard.

[paper halo]

you guys are too damn sensitive, they are just words.

It's not different than referring to white males as "whiteboys" or "crackers" and the fact that it's generally used in a condescending manner

People just need to get over themselves, yes racist people exist in this world in every nationality. But it's up to you, whether or not you choose to let the people affect you

It is very different.

[Tinnerz]

To be completely honest, I've received more racist comments directed toward me from my own race than from anyone else. It doesn't offend me, really, it's just disappointing.

[Zeran]

To be completely honest, I've received more racist comments directed toward me from my own race than from anyone else. It doesn't offend me, really, it's just disappointing.
you are black? in what way are they racist towards you, if you don't mind my asking?

[Bi11 Lumburgh]

It is very different.

How?

[J.C.]

you are black? in what way are they racist towards you, if you don't mind my asking?

It's prolly for liking TREOS, I bet.

[paper halo]

How?

Because 'white boy' and 'cracker' do not invoke the same historical and racial connotations as the n-word does. This should be obvious.

[J.C.]

Has anyone ever used the term 'cracker' non-ironically?

[Bi11 Lumburgh]

Because 'white boy' and 'cracker' do not invoke the same historical and racial connotations as the n-word does. This should be obvious.

you do understand what "cracker" means, right?

[Tinnerz]

you are black? in what way are they racist towards you, if you don't mind my asking?

Yeah, I'm (mostly) black. In high school they used to constantly ask me, "are you sure you're black?" due to my hair being less coarse/nappy and being light-skinned. I was further teased because I listened to rock music ("white music") and did well academically. You wouldn't think that those things would be an issue, but for some reason people hated that and therefore I was labeled as an "Oreo." Luckily I understood that those people are not the majority.

[Tinnerz]

It's prolly for liking TREOS, I bet.

That's part of it, actually. Hahaha.

[paper halo]

you do understand what "cracker" means, right?

Yes, but I doubt I could ever consider it offensive.

You understand the origins of the n-word, right?

[J.C.]

you do understand what "cracker" means, right?

You do understand you're hurting your case, right? There's nothing inherently insulting in the term 'cracker'.

[2's&3's]

I feel like it's pretty simple. If you are sensitive to other people's feelings, don't use words that would potentially offend someone. Trying to defend the use of the word makes you look like a bigot.

[barkingincision]

you do understand what "cracker" means, right?
the fact that you're 23 and honestly think that cracker is remotely on par with the meaning of the word n*gger is deeply concerning.
you're not proving anything, regardless.



I suggest OP read some of Thomas C Holt's books on the state of modern racism, I just wrote a paper on him.
Racism, obviously, is definitely still prevalent today, more so than the average American realizes.

[SuffrPeacefully]

Words don't belong to people. I can't blame someone that isn't black for using the version of the word ending in 'a', because black people do it all the time. The racist shit is when you want to use the slur ending in 'er'.

[Matt Chylak]

I just think the reclamation of the word is important. That is not the same as endorsing others saying it.
I don't believe that one group of people can reclaim a word

[zion the lion]

A word is a word.

you guys are too damn sensitive, they are just words.

It's not different than referring to white males as "whiteboys" or "crackers" and the fact that it's generally used in a condescending manner

People just need to get over themselves, yes racist people exist in this world in every nationality. But it's up to you, whether or not you choose to let the people affect you

I was about to use the head exploding smiley but it wouldnt show the exact amount of frustration I have right about now.

[Darkest Blue]

People are always going to resent anything they can even if they don't have a rational reason. It really is sad that the world lacks equality and certain people can't grow up and overcome these things. But just remember that you aren't racist and dont need to stoop to their level. Just be you and love all and people will see that and appreciate it.

[bandini]

I hate Spanish people.We live in America, they need to speak American." To which I replied, "That is a nationality, not a language.

wait spanish people speak what?

if your gonna rant about people being racist, you should probably shouldn't use ignorance as your basis
the national language of Spain is Spanish, there not mutually exlcusive

[spiffa0]

I hate Spanish people.We live in America, they need to speak American." To which I replied, "That is a nationality, not a language.

wait spanish people speak what?

if your gonna rant about people being racist, you should probably shouldn't use ignorance as your basis
the national language of Spain is Spanish, there not mutually exlcusive

You "should probably shouldn't" ever post on this site again.

[zion the lion]

I hate Spanish people.We live in America, they need to speak American." To which I replied, "That is a nationality, not a language.

wait spanish people speak what?

if your gonna rant about people being racist, you should probably shouldn't use ignorance as your basis
the national language of Spain is Spanish, there not mutually exlcusive

And the language we speak is English, we dont speak American in America.


Not like it even matters, I dont think we have an official language anyway.

[paper halo]

I hate Spanish people.We live in America, they need to speak American." To which I replied, "That is a nationality, not a language.

wait spanish people speak what?

if your gonna rant about people being racist, you should probably shouldn't use ignorance as your basis
the national language of Spain is Spanish, there not mutually exlcusive

:hitself:

He was saying that 'American' is a nationality, not a language.

[bandini]

[quote=zion the lion;86814031]And the language we speak is English, we dont speak American in America.

yeah i get that, my point got muddled, i just think he chose his response wrong, seems ignorant to say spanish is a nationality only... especially when trying to take the high ground on such a sensitive topic as rasicm

[TheRealJohnOC]

Honestly, I've no problem with the use of the term between African-Americans, so long as it is used in terms of camaraderie; that is, one has a best friend and refers to them as "my n*gga".

Only people who come from Africa (not their ancestors) are African Americans.

[a nocturnal day]

Before I moved to Arizona, I was lucky enough to have never had a racist experience. Being Hispanic/Native American/Greek I get confused for a lot of different races and I grew up in New Mexico which was pretty cultural diverse.

About 6 months ago I was the mall in Glendale. I was on my way out the doors and saw a group of middle aged ladies behind me. So naturally I held the door open for them. One em said "I don't need you to hold the door open for me you fuckin spic." and the rest just laughed.

It was totally uncalled for and I was pretty taken aback. I don't know, to this day I'll sometimes think about and just wonder what the fuck.....

[Sunmaid]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ToNpS1dbero/TOIE7QOlxDI/AAAAAAAAAHc/ny45N9umCzk/s1600/i+know+all+about+discrimination.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ZtoGqHR5tuo/TPFvcApL5II/AAAAAAAACZA/j3pV97TDB1s/s1600/privilege-denying-dude-2.png

http://www.critical-sass.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/privileged-dude.jpg

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgi080Lbtx1qgy0fio1_500.jpg

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbw4tbO6Jo1qekcz0o1_500.jpg

[Zeran]

Yeah, I'm (mostly) black. In high school they used to constantly ask me, "are you sure you're black?" due to my hair being less coarse/nappy and being light-skinned. I was further teased because I listened to rock music ("white music") and did well academically. You wouldn't think that those things would be an issue, but for some reason people hated that and therefore I was labeled as an "Oreo." Luckily I understood that those people are not the majority.

that's interesting, only because i just read this article about how middle-class blacks are looked-down upon or whatever by lower-class blacks; i.e. if you're black and grow up in the suburbs, you're not "as black" or whatever as someone who lives in the projects. there's also a problem with wanting to be academically successful vs athletically successful as a black person.

this reminds me of a debate i had with my sister about this story we heard on the radio about this mixed-race guy who had "grown up white" and whether that was a cultural or economic thing.

[a nice person]

I get called white boy when I'm hoopin' it up down at the old ballyard.

not sure if you're joking, but i do too.

[The Personist]

All of you "just a word" people are idiots.

I actually hate it when people utter the phrase "the n-word" rather than just saying n*gger or n*gga. It's the most condescending and arrogant possible way to be "politically correct." It also perpetuates discrimination.

[apoemtothedead]

Every other thing I say.

[re7ard1337]

you're racist if you don't allow me to use the n-word.

/notserious

[saysmydoctor]

if black people don't want others to say that word, don't say it in front of us. it's simple really.
White privilege is afoot.
All of you "just a word" people are idiots.

I actually hate it when people utter the phrase "the n-word" rather than just saying n*gger or n*gga. It's the most condescending and arrogant possible way to be "politically correct." It also perpetuates discrimination.
Condescending and arrogant? See, I see people's discomfort to use it related to how we've stigmatized the word. I don't see it as condescending.

[StephenYoung]

I get discriminated because I'm english in a hick-ass french province all the time.
I also associate the word ****** to the black version of rednecks. I wouldn't use it as a discriminatory term, but I use it with friends. Fuck people who are like "it's our word! you can't have it!". We're a society, not two different colours.

[The Personist]

White privilege is afoot.

Condescending and arrogant? See, I see people's discomfort to use it related to how we've stigmatized the word. I don't see it as condescending.

Which is fine, but then just avoid using it. When you say "the n-word" it signifies "n*gger." You don't actually avoid all the baggage, and in fact end up being MORE racist than you would have had you just said the word. It assumes there's a certain transcendent signified presence to "n*gger" that we need to somehow protect African-Americans from, which is just as racist as calling someone a n*gger.

[about3fitty]

Only people who come from Africa (not their ancestors) are African Americans.

and only if they're also american. a couple weeks ago i heard someone describe a black person from south africa as african american. i face palmed pretty hard.

[zion the lion]

All of you "just a word" people are idiots.

I actually hate it when people utter the phrase "the n-word" rather than just saying n*gger or n*gga. It's the most condescending and arrogant possible way to be "politically correct." It also perpetuates discrimination.

I dont see it as being arrogant. I think the actual word is ugly, it sounds horrible, I've never said it and I never want to, it makes me uncomfortable, so I think it's better to just say "n-word" instead of the actual thing.

[saysmydoctor]

Which is fine, but then just avoid using it. When you say "the n-word" it signifies "n*gger." You don't actually avoid all the baggage, and in fact end up being MORE racist than you would have had you just said the word. It assumes there's a certain transcendent signified presence to "n*gger" that we need to somehow protect African-Americans from, which is just as racist as calling someone a n*gger.
I remember I selected a poem to read in class when I was in high school and it had "n*gga" used fairly liberally. But the poem itself was amazing, wish I could remember the name.

The class was kind of taken aback, but my teacher seemed pretty content with the whole thing.

:shrug: /uselessanecdote

[TheRealJohnOC]

and only if they're also american. a couple weeks ago i heard someone describe a black person from south africa as african american. i face palmed pretty hard.

Exactly. Both have to apply. To tell you the truth, I thought being American was a given. Apparently not for that person you mentioned haha

[J.C.]

not sure if you're joking, but i do too.

Nope, was serious.

All of you "just a word" people are idiots.

I actually hate it when people utter the phrase "the n-word" rather than just saying n*gger or n*gga. It's the most condescending and arrogant possible way to be "politically correct." It also perpetuates discrimination.

waehONGY-yI

[Tinnerz]

that's interesting, only because i just read this article about how middle-class blacks are looked-down upon or whatever by lower-class blacks; i.e. if you're black and grow up in the suburbs, you're not "as black" or whatever as someone who lives in the projects. there's also a problem with wanting to be academically successful vs athletically successful as a black person.

I've definitely experienced some of that. After I stopped giving a fuck about the people who said those things to me, it became more of a psychological study. I'd like to find out how that sort of mindset within the black community came to be. I know about the doll experiment, where young black kids preferred a doll that was white over one that was black, and I wonder if that same negative viewpoint of oneself is what causes some of these ideals.

Shit, I majored in the wrong field.

[paper halo]

All of you "just a word" people are idiots.

I actually hate it when people utter the phrase "the n-word" rather than just saying n*gger or n*gga. It's the most condescending and arrogant possible way to be "politically correct." It also perpetuates discrimination.

:shrug: I'm going to echo Saysmydoctor here (edit: and Zion, apparently), I think it's less an attempt to be politically correct, and more evidence of discomfort/disgust of the word.

Also, use of the word is not so commonplace over here, so it's not really something I've had to consider.

[EchoPark]

Honestly, I've no problem with the use of the term between African-Americans, so long as it is used in terms of camaraderie; that is, one has a best friend and refers to them as "my n*gga".


Yea, you see, that's bullshit friend.

You have no problem with blacks using the word n***a as a term of endearment. What about if you had a friend who was white, or brown, and they grew up with you, would it bother you then?

I'm an Arab American who grew up in a black neighborhood. For the most part, I was never ostricized nor excluded. Had me a few tough times but by and large, I was just another kid in the ghetto. It wasn't until I moved home and discovered the world that I realized how the ass-backward logic of others who hold a double standard on that word.

[Sunmaid]

I get discriminated because I'm english in a hick-ass french province all the time.
I also associate the word ****** to the black version of rednecks. I wouldn't use it as a discriminatory term, but I use it with friends. Fuck people who are like "it's our word! you can't have it!". We're a society, not two different colours.
You're so Quebec.

[open mind]

i've managed to avoid hearing any racist bullshit as of late, but being the whitest eskimo on earth has insured that i usually hear from both sides of the idiotic coin.

[Love As Arson]

Yea, you see, that's bullshit friend.

You have no problem with blacks using the word n***a as a term of endearment. What about if you had a friend who was white, or brown, and they grew up with you, would it bother you then?

I'm an Arab American who grew up in a black neighborhood. For the most part, I was never ostricized nor excluded. Had me a few tough times but by and large, I was just another kid in the ghetto. It wasn't until I moved home and discovered the world that I realized how the ass-backward logic of others who hold a double standard on that word.
I'd havr a problem with a white friend using the term becuase of the inherent disparity of power.

[S/T]

Has anyone ever used the term 'cracker' non-ironically?

Definitely heard a guy say, not to my face, "Aye that cracker can jump" when I was playing basketball. This was not a joke. To him.

[Love As Arson]

"Cracker" refers to the sound whips made.

[Healthy Scratch]

i can't see asians calling each other gooks or jews calling each other *****. so i don't fully understand blacks using n*gger with each other. but at the same time, i have no idea the feeling they share about the word, and i'm not gonna tell them how they should or shouldn't feel.

[StephenYoung]

"Cracker" refers to the sound whips made.

And 99% of black people who use the term cracker refer to the colour of white people being similar to the colour of soda biscuits.

I think black people use the word n**ger so often because (Correct me if I'm wrong), but many of them pride themselves on their socioeconomic standing. It's part of the black culture to live in tougher conditions, where maybe 50 or 100 years ago, they'd be known as "n**gers. That's also why black artists emphasize "the hood life" and illegal stuff.

[richter915]

"Cracker" refers to the sound whips made.
I don't see how you can separate intention from the person using the word in a certain context.

[richter915]

And 99% of black people who use the term cracker refer to the colour of white people being similar to the colour of soda biscuits.
what study are u basing that percentage off of?

[StephenYoung]

what study are u basing that percentage off of?

If you're going to challenge my assumption, don't use the lamest retort ever, and spell your words correctly.


And fuck Zdeno Chara.

[open mind]

I don't see how you can separate intention from the person using the word in a certain context.

not thread relevant.....but it's been a good long while since i've seen you around these parts. gonna start posting regularly again?

[JoshSalas]

what study are u basing that percentage off of?

The one conducted by Premium Plus University in Chicago.

[domotime2]

S9hZO-dQYww
haha, see the worst part about this spot is that it's not even the whole "we're in america, speak english" is that it's a retarded ONE THING to stand on!!! that's a big concern in alabama? drivers test given in multiple languages? haha. insanity. fucking insanity right here.

[domotime2]

mean people exist in the world. i dont get it.

[JoshSalas]

I lol'd at that video, wowwww.

[Paulie4star]

Around Chriastmas time, I drove like 1500 miles to see my family. A black friend of mine called me to see how things were going. I guess my phone was loud or something and my father heard my friend on the other end. I said bye and hung up and immediately my father asks:

"Who was that?"
"A friend from work."
"Is he black?"
"Yes dad, he is, don't start this."
"No Paul, that's fucking ridiculous. How can you let some n*gger bother you when you're trying to eat a meal with your family."

Grabbed my son and eft the house and asked him how he got to be so racist. He claims he just can't help it. I told him that he had to change or he's never going to see me or my son again.

Haven't talked to him since.

[domotime2]

Around Chriastmas time, I drove like 1500 miles to see my family. A black friend of mine called me to see how things were going. I guess my phone was loud or something and my father heard my friend on the other end. I said bye and hung up and immediately my father asks:

"Who was that?"
"A friend from work."
"Is he black?"
"Yes dad, he is, don't start this."
"No Paul, that's fucking ridiculous. How can you let some n*gger bother you when you're trying to eat a meal with your family."

Grabbed my son and eft the house and asked him how he got to be so racist. He claims he just can't help it. I told him that he had to change or he's never going to see me or my son again.

Haven't talked to him since.
intense

[EasySkankin]

Language changes over time. The fact we can use n*gga as a positive today is progress, not regression. People who label the word as racist are the ones making the distinction between race. You don't have to be black to be a n*gga. One day I won't have to use that asterick, and the world will be a better place for it.

[Paulie4star]

intense
The worst part is he's not even a bad person. Think of him as the father from American History X. He's just a hard worker and something back in the day triggered him to hate black people. I don't know what it was, but I won't allow that racist shit around my son. It started to rub off on me when I was younger to the point I was really hateful towards anyone who wasn't white. I mean, I was borderline white supremesist. I hated everyone.

Thankfully, I have changed and moved away from said racism.

[richter915]

If you're going to challenge my assumption, don't use the lamest retort ever, and spell your words correctly.


And fuck Zdeno Chara.
So are you going to answer my original question or is your role here just to be the spell checking troll?

Never hate big Z, he's so freakish that it's beautiful.

[richter915]

not thread relevant.....but it's been a good long while since i've seen you around these parts. gonna start posting regularly again?
I've been in the sports forum mostly..I'll drop in here from time to time but grad school is wrecking me hardcore at the moment. It's good to see you contributing in these kinds of threads where logic seems to give way to "black ppl should just stfu it's a wurd omfg" and "slavery ended in the 1850s, get over it"

[richter915]

Language changes over time. The fact we can use n*gga as a positive today is progress, not regression. People who label the word as racist are the ones making the distinction between race. You don't have to be black to be a n*gga. One day I won't have to use that asterick, and the world will be a better place for it.
There's a difference in opinion on this word but I feel as though activists from the 60s probably have the most relevant opinion. From what I've seen, the use of n*gga in common vernacular arose as a mockery of racist Americans using it on blacks during the times around or prior to the civil rights movement. I'm not sure how it then grew into the equivalent of "man" (in the way hippies say "hayy mannn") but yes, ideally it should either be accepted by all parties or not used at all.

[EasySkankin]

There's a difference in opinion on this word but I feel as though activists from the 60s probably have the most relevant opinion. From what I've seen, the use of n*gga in common vernacular arose as a mockery of racist Americans using it on blacks during the times around or prior to the civil rights movement. I'm not sure how it then grew into the equivalent of "man" (in the way hippies say "hayy mannn") but yes, ideally it should either be accepted by all parties or not used at all.
That's interesting, never knew that. I think realistically speaking, it's both impossible and immoral to try and ban a word, and it's only a matter of time and progress before the word is accepted.

[Sean Rizzo]

The other day an individual I worked with referred to another worker as the n-word and when I pointed out that I was black, he reiterated the Chris Rock distinction between black people a n*ggers. This individual also said, "I hate Spanish people.We live in America, they need to speak American." To which I replied, "That is a nationality, not a language." Anyway, I think I underestimated the effect that it can have on me, as I assumed I'd be used to racist rhetoric, but it is incredibly dispiriting and depressing. I was surprised at how it made me feel even days after these incidents had occurred. In any event, this thread is for comments directed towards you or comments you have heard of the racist variety.
Idiots are idiots, there's no need to use a racial slur. Dumb excuse is dumb.

[dru]

Yeah, I'm (mostly) black. In high school they used to constantly ask me, "are you sure you're black?" due to my hair being less coarse/nappy and being light-skinned. I was further teased because I listened to rock music ("white music") and did well academically. You wouldn't think that those things would be an issue, but for some reason people hated that and therefore I was labeled as an "Oreo." Luckily I understood that those people are not the majority.

welcome to the club.

that's interesting, only because i just read this article about how middle-class blacks are looked-down upon or whatever by lower-class blacks; i.e. if you're black and grow up in the suburbs, you're not "as black" or whatever as someone who lives in the projects. there's also a problem with wanting to be academically successful vs athletically successful as a black person.

this reminds me of a debate i had with my sister about this story we heard on the radio about this mixed-race guy who had "grown up white" and whether that was a cultural or economic thing.

absolutely true, unfortunately.

[LostAllways]

you do understand what "cracker" means, right?

You are seriously an imbecile. Like, straight up. Immediately remove yourself from society, please.

[Matt Chylak]

I dont see it as being arrogant. I think the actual word is ugly, it sounds horrible, I've never said it and I never want to, it makes me uncomfortable, so I think it's better to just say "n-word" instead of the actual thing.

was it better to say "you know who" or voldemort?

[OptimusRhymez]

I'm South Korean and had a few things said to me throughout the years, since I've grown up in a predominately white town. Usually, it's very immature comments like "Do you see in wide screen?" or things Asian related. They also used to talk to me with an Asian accent, which is ironic considering I'm an ENGLISH major and have absolutely no trace of an accent, nor do I speak Korean (I don't even have that stereotypical Jersey accent.) SIDE NOTE: I don't have an Asian accent because I was adopted by white parents.

Also, something that I find interesting is one of my friends is incredibly racists toward black people, which pisses me off to no end. I feel that if you're going to have that much resentment toward one race, don't befriend the other races. I know it's silly, but I think it's stupid that he's friends with an Asian kid and a Hispanic kid and has no ill will towards them. And it's not even like black people have ever done anything to him or his family.

My father is also, I believe a text book example of a wonderful person, because when he was growing up, he and his friend were beaten up badly by a group of black teenagers. (They were teenagers as well). My father literally almost died and has fake teeth and scars from this attack to this day. However, my father is able to acknowledge that those select few black teens DO NOT represent all black people as a whole and is friends with literally every race (Most of his friends now happen to be black). I think most people's racism comes from the fact that they just assume that all people of a certain race are the same. Every race has some crappy people in it, people need to realize how many of them are actually good.

tl;dr version: Racism is stupid.

[Paulie4star]

I'm South Korean and had a few things said to me throughout the years, since I've grown up in a predominately white town. Usually, it's very immature comments like "Do you see in wide screen?" or things Asian related. They also used to talk to me with an Asian accent, which is ironic considering I'm an ENGLISH major and have absolutely no trace of an accent, nor do I speak Korean (I don't even have that stereotypical Jersey accent.) SIDE NOTE: I don't have an Asian accent because I was adopted by white parents.

Also, something that I find interesting is one of my friends is incredibly racists toward black people, which pisses me off to no end. I feel that if you're going to have that much resentment toward one race, don't befriend the other races. I know it's silly, but I think it's stupid that he's friends with an Asian kid and a Hispanic kid and has no ill will towards them. And it's not even like black people have ever done anything to him or his family.

My father is also, I believe a text book example of a wonderful person, because when he was growing up, he and his friend were beaten up badly by a group of black teenagers. (They were teenagers as well). My father literally almost died and has fake teeth and scars from this attack to this day. However, my father is able to acknowledge that those select few black teens DO NOT represent all black people as a whole and is friends with literally every race (Most of his friends now happen to be black). I think most people's racism comes from the fact that they just assume that all people of a certain race are the same. Every race has some crappy people in it, people need to realize how many of them are actually good.

tl;dr version: Racism is stupid.
If only those kids know how awesome South Korean culture was... I'm enjoying my time here.

[<*)))><]

The term racist is racist.

[zion the lion]

was it better to say "you know who" or voldemort?

I wasnt allowed to watch/read Harry Potter, so consider that way over my head.

[Paulie4star]

I wasnt allowed to watch/read Harry Potter, so consider that way over my head.
Me either :-( I missed that train.

Oh well, I still had Lord of the Rings.

[zion the lion]

Me either :-( I missed that train.

Oh well, I still had Lord of the Rings.

Religious reasons?

It made no sense to me that I was allowed to watch Lord of the Rings but not Harry Potter. At our church we had little competition to see who could go see those movies in the theater the most times.

[StephenYoung]

So are you going to answer my original question or is your role here just to be the spell checking troll?

Never hate big Z, he's so freakish that it's beautiful.

Well, how many black people do you know use the word cracker as a nod to white masters whipping their slaves?
It's not a stat, it's a (valid) assumption.

[Paulie4star]

Religious reasons?

It made no sense to me that I was allowed to watch Lord of the Rings but not Harry Potter. At our church we had little competition to see who could go see those movies in the theater the most times.
Yes ma'am, my mother is a very relgious person. I got a beating for bringing home The Sorcerer's Stone. :/

[zion the lion]

Yes ma'am, my mother is a very relgious person. I got a beating for bringing home The Sorcerer's Stone. :/

The trick to getting out of a beating is to cover your butt, look cute, and beg for one more chance.

[Paulie4star]

The trick to getting out of a beating is to cover your butt, look cute, and beg for one more chance.
The belt is going to win 10/10 times against an ugly 12 year old. :shrug:

I'm making my parents seem like real pricks in this thread. Not the case at all really. Oh well. Back to racism. Sorry for the de-railing.

[Matt Chylak]

I wasnt allowed to watch/read Harry Potter, so consider that way over my head.

"fear of a name increases fear of a thing itself"

[Charles777]

Pretty sure Chris Rock stopped doing that bit for that reason. Yeah, racists are fucking scum.

[MyNameIsRoss]

woman is the n**ger of the world, though..

[KingsCrossing]

This isn't technically racism, but being Jewish in a very Christian neighborhood, I've unfortunately had to deal with some pretty insulting and hurtful anti-Semitism.

In fact, at one point in high school, the word "Jewish" was being used by a bunch of kids as a derogatory term (e.g.: "man this movie sucks, so jewish", etc.)

[zion the lion]

"fear of a name increases fear of a thing itself"

I'm okayish with other people saying it, I know it's going to be said, but I'm uncomfortable saying it. I think it's an ugly harsh sounding word (like other people with moist) and having family who grew up in the early 20s and had bad experiences with the word only makes me feel like there's no need to say it.

[danTHEman32]

in one of my classes we recently discussed the fact that the "N" word and the word "indian" are being taken out of every new printing of the book huck finn and replaced with "black person" and native american.....what is everyones thoughts on this? i kind of feel like in this instance it will take away from the book, and leaving the words in the book almost gives us a chance to learn from our past and the ugliness of this language. i dk. a lot of people in my class thought it was good that they took it out though.

[EasySkankin]

in one of my classes we recently discussed the fact that the "N" word and the word "indian" are being taken out of every new printing of the book huck finn and replaced with "black person" and native american.....what is everyones thoughts on this? i kind of feel like in this instance it will take away from the book, and leaving the words in the book almost gives us a chance to learn from our past and the ugliness of this language. i dk. a lot of people in my class thought it was good that they took it out though.
I remember this. Reminded me why orwell's work is still extremely relevant. Such a blatant example of doublespeak. Completely spits in the face of the point of the novel, too.

[Matt Chylak]

I'm okayish with other people saying it, I know it's going to be said, but I'm uncomfortable saying it. I think it's an ugly harsh sounding word (like other people with moist) and having family who grew up in the early 20s and had bad experiences with the word only makes me feel like there's no need to say it.

I don't mind others being uncomfortable; it's a highly stigmatized word in our society. However, I won't abide by that standard with my own usage.

[allthruwinter]

You would probably have a rage explosion if you lived down here because everyone says the n word except me

A majority of the people I know use it here as well. Its always bothered me. Then again, I guess blatant stupidity has always bothered me.

[open mind]

in one of my classes we recently discussed the fact that the "N" word and the word "indian" are being taken out of every new printing of the book huck finn and replaced with "black person" and native american.....what is everyones thoughts on this? i kind of feel like in this instance it will take away from the book, and leaving the words in the book almost gives us a chance to learn from our past and the ugliness of this language. i dk. a lot of people in my class thought it was good that they took it out though.

keep the original text.

indian is far less offensive (although cleveland's logo is fucked) then the term redskins/red man....and we've got a nfl team in our nations capital and a brand of chewing tobacco named that.

that said, i don't really care about such terminology as much as i'd like to see economic development (that doesn't involve land raping) and running water in all native communities.

[DeviateRogue]

I'd havr a problem with a white friend using the term becuase of the inherent disparity of power.

Isn't that thought process, in and of itself racist though? So if anyone else besides a white friend says it, it's fine, sorry friend, but that's horse shit and you know it.

[DeviateRogue]

That's interesting, never knew that. I think realistically speaking, it's both impossible and immoral to try and ban a word, and it's only a matter of time and progress before the word is accepted.

I think a rather brilliant episode of South Park satirizes this issue, I believe it's "N*gger Guy", I'd suggest you check it out.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

This isn't technically racism, but being Jewish in a very Christian neighborhood, I've unfortunately had to deal with some pretty insulting and hurtful anti-Semitism.

In fact, at one point in high school, the word "Jewish" was being used by a bunch of kids as a derogatory term (e.g.: "man this movie sucks, so jewish", etc.)

I'm not religious at all but Judaism is the one religion I come to appreciate both its ritual and culture. So I'm usually quick to defend any attacks against Jewish people. It actually wasn't until I was in high school that I learned that my grandfather was born to Jewish parents but he never had a proper Jewish upbringing. But what I find stupid is how kids in your example use Jewish as a derogatory term. It doesn't even make sense. If I were you, I would have least called out those kids in those incidences.

[EasySkankin]

I think a rather brilliant episode of South Park satirizes this issue, I believe it's "N*gger Guy", I'd suggest you check it out.
pon the dl

[DeviateRogue]

pon the dl

Here's the episode; http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/episodes/s11e01-with-apologies-to-jesse-jackson

[GuitarR0cker1]

Being Mexican-American in Idaho is no fun. So many racist comments directed towards me and towards illegal immigrants and Mexicans on a nearly daily basis. But the (subtle) hatred towards Blacks is worse. I'm exaggerating somewhat when I say daily basis but it's not good. Lots of "beaner/wetback" comments in middle school and occasionally in high school said to my face.

[PunkInfluence09]

Racism is a 100%, unneeded and unjustifiable action. Unfortunately, hate is pumped into people and it comes out in this form of hate.

All I can say is, on the behalf of any decent human being, that I am SORRY for anyone who has to encounter racism, even if it is only once in your life.

[EasySkankin]

Here's the episode; http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/episodes/s11e01-with-apologies-to-jesse-jackson
haha no one seems to know it! Just means i'm downloading it.

[perceptrons]

For me, I would say "the n-word" because I literally feel disgusted if I say the actual word. I remember one time I was joking around with a friend of mine and repeated what he had said without thinking and when I dawned on me a few seconds later that I had repeated the n-word, I felt this horrible feeling wash over me. So, whether it makes sense or not, I hated feeling that way and I don't want to again.

[JoshSalas]

For me, I would say "the n-word" because I literally feel disgusted if I say the actual word. I remember one time I was joking around with a friend of mine and repeated what he had said without thinking and when I dawned on me a few seconds later that I had repeated the n-word, I felt this horrible feeling wash over me. So, whether it makes sense or not, I hated feeling that way and I don't want to again.

Yeah, I kinda feel the same way. The only time I ever really say it is when it's '*****' and in fast flowing rap lyrics lol.

[Mibabalou]

This kind of seems like it should go in here.

When ever people say "eff ag#$ot" when Im hanging out with them, I always ask them to not say that around me, and one of my friends who thinks he is some really deep really smart guy, says people should just be able to say anything and not have it hurt people, then procieds to say effag$R@ this and that for the rest of the day just to piss me off cause It really angers when people use it as a insult thing.

Thoughts?

[Stearman77]

Racisim is universal, in fact people from the middle east get it more nowadays than any african-american (nowadays)ever will. That phase has ended with people feeling opressed, of course there will still be people who feel elitiest on this but if you were'nt born in the 20's - 50s then stfu. Mainly because you don't have to sit in the back of a bus and you don't have to use seperate bathrooms and you don't have to eat at different dineries. I assure you if Rosa Parks only problem was someone saying a derrogative word to her then she'd be more than happy. Times have changed and in saying that if you have'nt truely lived thru opression then stfu.

[open mind]

Racisim is universal, in fact people from the middle east get it more nowadays than any african-american (nowadays)ever will. That phase has ended with people feeling opressed, of course there will still be people who feel elitiest on this but if you were'nt born in the 20's - 50s then stfu. Mainly because you don't have to sit in the back of a bus and you don't have to use seperate bathrooms and you don't have to eat at different dineries. I assure you if Rosa Parks only problem was someone saying a derrogative word to her then she'd be more than happy. Times have changed and in saying that if you have'nt truely lived thru opression then stfu.

any african american ever will? surely you jest.

institutionalized racism is still a problem.

[Lueda Alia]

I've never experienced racism, but I've definitely experienced discrimination due to my nationality (Albanian) when I was younger. Other times, I've been discriminated against for simply being a foreigner/having an accent.

I remember back in 2007 when I became the assistant manager at this store I worked at, my old manager once told me, "You are my best sales associate and I'm so glad that I hired you now. I mean, if Robin (former assistant manager) hadn't pushed me to hire you, I wouldn't have because of your accent. I was worried that there would be a language barrier and that you wouldn't be able to sell." She pretty much reached that conclusion based on my accent alone, because my English is just fine and no one has ever had a problem understanding me. I found her attitude extremely depressing, and what she said has stayed with me since, despite always being complimented on my accent. Things like that are hard to get over. Even nowadays, I feel a little nervous sometimes if or when I'm applying for a new job. It's awful.

[DeviateRogue]

This kind of seems like it should go in here.

When ever people say "eff ag#$ot" when Im hanging out with them, I always ask them to not say that around me, and one of my friends who thinks he is some really deep really smart guy, says people should just be able to say anything and not have it hurt people, then procieds to say effag$R@ this and that for the rest of the day just to piss me off cause It really angers when people use it as a insult thing.

Thoughts?

Sounds like you should just ditch the friend if he just wants to piss you off.

Edit: @Lueda well she didn't say that in a hateful manner, granted, she may be ignorant. But really, all of us come across people like that in our lifes, just stuff you have to try to shrug off.

[derekrvr]

The whole Chris Rock scenario is exactly why black people are stuck in this predicament. I am black and it burns me from the inside out when I hear other black people still using the n word towards each other. The Chris Rock thing only makes it worse b/c he is giving other races an excuse to continue to use bigotry. Another example is when Nas named his album N****er and expected people to just understand the point he was trying to make by naming his album that. It doesn't matter what reasoning you put behind using that language, you are giving everyone the okay to go ahead and use it as well. I've heard that word thrown around by all races my whole life, by people I considered friends, who said the same thing you did about how it didn't apply to 'all black people' and its disgusting. Ending ignorance ends with ourselves in our own communities and until that happens, shit's just going to keep getting worse.


My hat goes off to you, mam.
I've asked some of my black friends about that, and they explained some sort of difference between N***er and N***a, and I really didn't get it. It's like gay people calling each other fagget. It makes no sense.
I understand that language isn't stagnent, and that it has to be able to change and adapt, but if something is so offensive, then why don't people actually make a stand for it? I'm white, and I call people out for using the N-word, and everyone's like "why do you care? You're not black." Well, when someone targets me, I want someone to have my back. But it's more than that, it's just wrong. It's rude and angry and just immature.
The other thing that gets to me is the ignorance. Like, the thing with Huck Fin, where they changed the N-word to slave. They don't mean the same thing! It just angers me. *rants darkly*

[derekrvr]

I think a rather brilliant episode of South Park satirizes this issue, I believe it's "N*gger Guy", I'd suggest you check it out.


appologies to jesse jackson. Season eleven, episode 1.
I just saw it this weekend with a friend, because we were talking about this very thing. It really does a great job of summing it all up. You can find it at southparkstudios.com

[derekrvr]

This kind of seems like it should go in here.

When ever people say "eff ag#$ot" when Im hanging out with them, I always ask them to not say that around me, and one of my friends who thinks he is some really deep really smart guy, says people should just be able to say anything and not have it hurt people, then procieds to say effag$R@ this and that for the rest of the day just to piss me off cause It really angers when people use it as a insult thing.

Thoughts?


Really explain why it hurts. Calling someone a fagget comes from when a fagget was a bundle of wood, only fit for burning. Calling someone, generally a homosexual, a fagget is saying, historically, that they are fit for burning and nothing more. It's an awful thing to say, and people don't understand it, because they just think it's cool. It's like motherfucker. Everyone says it, but then when they read Oedipus in english they all get freaked out.

[Love As Arson]

Isn't that thought process, in and of itself racist though? So if anyone else besides a white friend says it, it's fine, sorry friend, but that's horse shit and you know it.
Nope. Given the real fact of white privilege, I don't see why any white person would want to say it, nor do I understand why it is such a point of contention when African-Americans use it with one another, especially if it is meant to undermine its original meaning.
Racisim is universal, in fact people from the middle east get it more nowadays than any african-american (nowadays)ever will. That phase has ended with people feeling opressed, of course there will still be people who feel elitiest on this but if you were'nt born in the 20's - 50s then stfu. Mainly because you don't have to sit in the back of a bus and you don't have to use seperate bathrooms and you don't have to eat at different dineries. I assure you if Rosa Parks only problem was someone saying a derrogative word to her then she'd be more than happy. Times have changed and in saying that if you have'nt truely lived thru opression then stfu.
We're more segregated now than we were in prior decades. It's simply taken a subtle, economic form.

[Ricketts]

I wish I could get really offended at a word. It's racist that white people don't have one :(

[Love As Arson]

And 99% of black people who use the term cracker refer to the colour of white people being similar to the colour of soda biscuits.

I think black people use the word n**ger so often because (Correct me if I'm wrong), but many of them pride themselves on their socioeconomic standing. It's part of the black culture to live in tougher conditions, where maybe 50 or 100 years ago, they'd be known as "n**gers. That's also why black artists emphasize "the hood life" and illegal stuff.
Yes, African-Americans pride themselves on the economic disparity that relegates them to terrible neighborhoods, a drug economy and violence. Understand that there is a difference between pride in making it through a terrible situation and pride in the situation itself. As for your original comment, it is mostly irrelevant, as the point I was making is, even with regard to racial slurs, "cracker" is one in which white supremacy is actually confirmed.
I don't see how you can separate intention from the person using the word in a certain context.
Broadly, I think it is possible, insofar as particular contexts allow us to understand when the usage is permissible,e.g., between my best friend and I as opposed to between white people. Blacks have appropriated it for the specific purpose of undermining a facet of white supremacy, which does not exist in other communities.

[Love As Arson]

8AapoCaZWIs

[Love As Arson]

that's interesting, only because i just read this article about how middle-class blacks are looked-down upon or whatever by lower-class blacks; i.e. if you're black and grow up in the suburbs, you're not "as black" or whatever as someone who lives in the projects. there's also a problem with wanting to be academically successful vs athletically successful as a black person.
I think it has to do with the mass production of culture which presents particular avenues as the means of bypassing one's social station. So, for example, we rarely see successful academic blacks on television shows, whereas that is the norm for their white counterparts. As for the conflict with middle-class blacks, it is due to what I refer to as the Cosby syndrome; that is, middle-class blacks who have adopted many of the talking points of white supremacy,detached the situation of lower-class blacks from systematic oppression and attribute it to an inherent deficiency within "their culture", in them as a people. Far from being tough love, it makes clear the divide between these two sectors.

[kwsqd]

Yes, African-Americans pride themselves on the economic disparity that relegates them to terrible neighborhoods, a drug economy and violence. Understand that there is a difference between pride in making it through a terrible situation and pride in the situation itself. As for your original comment, it is mostly irrelevant, as the point I was making is, even with regard to racial slurs, "cracker" is one in which white supremacy is actually confirmed.

Broadly, I think it is possible, insofar as particular contexts allow us to understand when the usage is permissible,e.g., between my best friend and I as opposed to between white people. Blacks have appropriated it for the specific purpose of undermining a facet of white supremacy, which does not exist in other communities.

My apologies if you already addressed this, but would you ever consider calling a white person "my n*gga"? (I know this seems like a dumb question, but given the circumstance.. I am curious.) What if that person were your best friend? Or would that term still only be reserved for an African-American friend of yours? If so, then I must ask: why choose a word that denotes race, especially if it serves no purpose in the immediate context?

[Zeran]

There's a difference in opinion on this word but I feel as though activists from the 60s probably have the most relevant opinion. From what I've seen, the use of n*gga in common vernacular arose as a mockery of racist Americans using it on blacks during the times around or prior to the civil rights movement. I'm not sure how it then grew into the equivalent of "man" (in the way hippies say "hayy mannn") but yes, ideally it should either be accepted by all parties or not used at all.
this is true. however, it can and is often used as a pejorative term among blacks.
This isn't technically racism, but being Jewish in a very Christian neighborhood, I've unfortunately had to deal with some pretty insulting and hurtful anti-Semitism.

In fact, at one point in high school, the word "Jewish" was being used by a bunch of kids as a derogatory term (e.g.: "man this movie sucks, so jewish", etc.)
i noticed a lot of that at my very white, very christian suburban public school. not to mention all kinds of anti-homosexual slurs.
in one of my classes we recently discussed the fact that the "N" word and the word "indian" are being taken out of every new printing of the book huck finn and replaced with "black person" and native american.....what is everyones thoughts on this? i kind of feel like in this instance it will take away from the book, and leaving the words in the book almost gives us a chance to learn from our past and the ugliness of this language. i dk. a lot of people in my class thought it was good that they took it out though.
they should leave the books unchanged.
I've never experienced racism, but I've definitely experienced discrimination due to my nationality (Albanian) when I was younger. Other times, I've been discriminated against for simply being a foreigner/having an accent.

I remember back in 2007 when I became the assistant manager at this store I worked at, my old manager once told me, "You are my best sales associate and I'm so glad that I hired you now. I mean, if Robin (former assistant manager) hadn't pushed me to hire you, I wouldn't have because of your accent. I was worried that there would be a language barrier and that you wouldn't be able to sell." She pretty much reached that conclusion based on my accent alone, because my English is just fine and no one has ever had a problem understanding me. I found her attitude extremely depressing, and what she said has stayed with me since, despite always being complimented on my accent. Things like that are hard to get over. Even nowadays, I feel a little nervous sometimes if or when I'm applying for a new job. It's awful.

it sucks not being a native speaker sometimes in a foreign country, even if you speak it very well. it's worse in a country that doesn't have or isn't used to having a lot of foreigners/immigrants; i.e. europe.

[2LW]

My dad is very racist and uses this as an excuse. When I get mad at him, he asks me why I'm mad because I'm not black. It went over his head.
I feel stupid for asking, but what is the Chris rock distinction?

[Dystroxia]

My apologies if you already addressed this, but would you ever consider calling a white person "my n*gga"? (I know this seems like a dumb question, but given the circumstance.. I am curious.) What if that person were your best friend? Or would that term still only be reserved for an African-American friend of yours? If so, then I must ask: why choose a word that denotes race, especially if it serves no purpose in the immediate context?

All the black people down here say it to everyone, regardless of race

[kwsqd]

All the black people down here say it to everyone, regardless of race
it's a mixed bag here. I'm very unsure of how to feel about it or handle it.

[PerfectChaos337]

I've never exactly been a target of racism, but I come from a very diverse town and all of the Hispanic people would always give me shit for being white. My high school had a few thousand kids and only maybe 200-300 were white, with students spread out between 3 buildings on the campus. I was never bummed out about it or anything, but it got to be pretty grating after a while. Whatevs... I still got mine.

[Love As Arson]

My apologies if you already addressed this, but would you ever consider calling a white person "my n*gga"? (I know this seems like a dumb question, but given the circumstance.. I am curious.) What if that person were your best friend? Or would that term still only be reserved for an African-American friend of yours? If so, then I must ask: why choose a word that denotes race, especially if it serves no purpose in the immediate context?
Because our common racial experience/history is part of what bonds us and allows us to refer to one another as such. For a black person, race is something in your mind from the moment you wake up in the morning, it is something which effects your day, your interactions with others and with the world in general,e.g., I must be mindful of the city police. Whites, being the default, do not have this experience.

[Dystroxia]

it's a mixed bag here. I'm very unsure of how to feel about it or handle it.

I don't say it because I sound awkward and slightly rude when I say it, so I just say son instead (which is another word black people use a lot down here, but I also say it)

[richter915]

Because our common racial experience/history is part of what bonds us and allows us to refer to one another as such. For a black person, race is something in your mind from the moment you wake up in the morning, it is something which effects your day, your interactions with others and with the world in general,e.g., I must be mindful of the city police. Whites, being the default, do not have this experience.
But that's a very broad generalization. I think whites in america are extremely conscious of race and this whole debate is about that. I have to watch the way I speak because of my race.

[saysmydoctor]

I suggest people watch this:

-vAbpJW_xEc

[richter915]

Also, by suggesting that there are certain words, phrases, idioms, actions, whatever..that only a black american can use because he is a black american...doesn't that just further racial divides and lead to actions like the one mentioned by the OP?

[JustAGirl01]

Yeah, I'm (mostly) black. In high school they used to constantly ask me, "are you sure you're black?" due to my hair being less coarse/nappy and being light-skinned. I was further teased because I listened to rock music ("white music") and did well academically. You wouldn't think that those things would be an issue, but for some reason people hated that and therefore I was labeled as an "Oreo." Luckily I understood that those people are not the majority.

I had a similar experience except most of those comments came from my family (about being an "Oreo" and what not). The kids at my high school I mostly grew up with so it didn't seem to be an "issue" (or at least something they were aware of). I get your point though, most of the negative comments were from people of my own race. There is this perceived notion as to how to "act Black" and it's going to take many years until that notion is done away with. It's ingrained too deep

[Love As Arson]

But that's a very broad generalization. I think whites in america are extremely conscious of race and this whole debate is about that. I have to watch the way I speak because of my race.
It isn't a generalization, it is an indictment of status. Being conscious of the race of others is different from being conscious of your own race. The black experience is such that it is an constitutive of an identity. The white experience is different because white is considered the norm.

[Love As Arson]

Also, by suggesting that there are certain words, phrases, idioms, actions, whatever..that only a black american can use because he is a black american...doesn't that just further racial divides and lead to actions like the one mentioned by the OP?
I like how the increase in a racial divide is attributable to black people. Perhaps it requires the understanding of others as to why they shouldn't say those words. For example, I do not use the b-word, however, if women use it with one another, I understand why this is the case and do not question why I shouldn't be allowed to use the term.

[sauce301]

My apologies if you already addressed this, but would you ever consider calling a white person "my n*gga"? (I know this seems like a dumb question, but given the circumstance.. I am curious.) What if that person were your best friend? Or would that term still only be reserved for an African-American friend of yours? If so, then I must ask: why choose a word that denotes race, especially if it serves no purpose in the immediate context?

one of my friends in hs(who was black, noted for relevence to the story) signed my year book, stating i was one crazy n*****. i felt touched.

anyways, i dunno, my experience has been for the most part, treat people with respect, and you'll generally get the same back. there's always going to be people using shitty words, and no matter what, someone is going to be saying ignorant stuff. but honestly if people would just drop the PC bullshit, and man up and have a legitimate talk about a lot of stuff, i think we'd be better off. like the newer pressing of the huck finn books, taking the word out absolutely affects the impact of the story. you take away so much of the impact of the story by changing it to slave. instead of choosing to confront it and explain to kids, that this happened, it was fucked up, but look where we are now, it softens the blow and allows people to revise history. it seems that so often, when you ask a legit question, and disagree with anyone, you get branded as racist, which is fucking lame.
i really hate to sound like one of those people who always say 'i'm color blind', cause that's just stupid, but i was just taught to treat everyone the same. i've had friends from all backgrounds, and we'll typically joke about each other, but at the end of the day we're all friends.

good on you to the dude that posted the CK video.

oh, and one time, in tech school, a guy who out ranks me, asked if i was a flip(i'm half filipino, he was full). flip was supposed to be a racist term, but i guess is similar to the n-word, in the aspect of how he was using it. regardless, i don't really care. i grew up in america, and don't look at myself as a filipino-american(my dad came from there after my grandfather enlisted in the navy, so i guess that term could apply?)

[wroteurname]

Foreigners think Americans are mean and pushy because foreigners are stupid and annoying.

Someone I work with really said this.

[sauce301]

I like how the increase in a racial divide is attributable to black people. Perhaps it requires the understanding of others as to why they shouldn't say those words. For example, I do not use the b-word, however, if women use it with one another, I understand why this is the case and do not question why I shouldn't be allowed to use the term.

i dunno, it almost seems to me that allowing one group to use a word but not others is hypocritical. i understand what you're saying, about requiring understanding as to why they shouldn't, but i don't believe that people should use the crutch of 'i'm allowed to say this and you aren't.'

[Love As Arson]

i dunno, it almost seems to me that allowing one group to use a word but not others is hypocritical. i understand what you're saying, about requiring understanding as to why they shouldn't, but i don't believe that people should use the crutch of 'i'm allowed to say this and you aren't.'
Hypocrisy requires a level playing field.

[EasySkankin]

I'm hispanic, and maybe i've been discriminated on job apps because of my name, but i've never faced discrimination, at least not racially anyway.

I admit that for a small period of time in high school I was a full-blown racist. I made a dumb decision and trusted some people I shouldn't have and ended up getting held up at gun point with my best friend in a very scary location. I lost my friend because of it. It was just from pure anger and frustration that I needed something or someone to blame. It wasn't so much I hated all black people, but I hated black people who fit a certain image and persona, the kind of people that held me up, and in my town there are plenty of them. In hindsight, it might sound cliche, but I do think being a racist reflects heavily on a person's own insecurities and low self-worth. It was really my own lack of good judgment and naivete that I ended up losing my best friend.

[SLoT]

As a white person, I'll be the first to admit I use the word ***** frequently. I'm not racist, and I'm not trying to say anything like it's okay to use if you're not racist either. I've said it in front of black friends as well as black strangers. The race I've been confronted by the most is white people. I know there are black people who don't care whether people outside their race use it, and I know that there are those who do care. But from what I've experienced (this is underlined to emphasize that these are my personal experiences, not fact), white people care a whole lot more about the word than black people do these days.

Edit: I do in fact apologize for using the word in front of those I offend. I'm not off my rocker, I do understand it's still a word that causes much controversy.

[Scrandon]

I"m hispanic, and maybe i've been discriminated on job apps because of my name, but i've never faced discrimination, at least not racially anyway.

I admit that for a small period of time in high school I was a full-blown racist. I made a dumb decision and trusted some people I shouldn't have and ended up getting held up at gun point with my best friend in a very scary location. I lost my friend because of it. It was just from pure anger and frustration that I needed something or someone to blame. It wasn't so much I hated all black people, but I hated black people who fit a certain image and persona, the kind of people that held me up, and in my town there are plenty of them. In hindsight, it might sound cliche, but I do think being a racist reflects heavily on a person's own insecurities and low self-worth. It was really my lack of good judgment and naivete that I ended up losing my best friend.
Sorry to hear that man. Good for you for getting over it.

[sauce301]

Hypocrisy requires a level playing field.

and if modern society has taught us anything, it's that hard work and perseverence get you nowhere.

[perceptrons]

Every time I discuss this topic, I am reminded of an article I read years ago called "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack." I'll attach the whole article, but also include the list of things in the "white knapsack."

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area, which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
6. When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization,” I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
7. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser’s shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
10. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of my financial reliability.
11. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
12. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
13. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
16. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world’s majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
18. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to “the person in charge,” I will be facing a person of my race.
19. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.
20. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children’s magazines featuring people of my race.
21. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.
22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.
23. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be
mistreated in the place I have chosen.
24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help my race will not work against me.
25. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.
26. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in “flesh” color and have them more or less match my skin.

[JoshSalas]

^That makes me sad.

[Mibabalou]

This thread has just turned into my Philosophy and Gender I took last semester, which is a good thing.

[richter915]

I like how the increase in a racial divide is attributable to black people. Perhaps it requires the understanding of others as to why they shouldn't say those words. For example, I do not use the b-word, however, if women use it with one another, I understand why this is the case and do not question why I shouldn't be allowed to use the term.
Yes I would absolutely think that racism in the US can be furthered by any group, regardless of who is in power or what is deemed as the norm. This goes for any social divide. In no way am I saying that use of the word n*gga is the only, or most important, factor that furthers racism.

[richter915]

Hypocrisy requires a level playing field.
This is isn't hypocrisy, it's more prejudice than anything else.

Because you are white, and all whites have racial superiority in the US....you have power...since you have power, you are not allowed to use certain words.

[sauce301]

This is isn't hypocrisy, it's more prejudice than anything else.

Because you are white, and all whites have racial superiority in the US....you have power...since you have power, you are not allowed to use certain words.
i agree with the first one i may have misspoke. confused on the second, could you elaborate?

[richter915]

i agree with the first one i may have misspoke. confused on the second, could you elaborate?
the OP is suggesting that white americans cannot use the word n*gga because by being white, they assume a role of racial superiority and use of the word is automatically demeaning since it comes from a white person. The prejudgment is that any white person is racially superior and inherently racist in the US, regardless of where they may stand socioeconomically or politically, etc. This is where most of the disagreements on the use of the word is coming from.

I could be wrong tho, please someone correct me if I am.

[EasySkankin]

Sorry to hear that man. Good for you for getting over it.
Thanks, man.

[Love As Arson]

This is isn't hypocrisy, it's more prejudice than anything else.

Because you are white, and all whites have racial superiority in the US....you have power...since you have power, you are not allowed to use certain words.
White privilege is complex and the are a wide variety of axes on which power and prejudice turn. However, we should take into consideration the social situations that provide evidence. So, for example, a person with an ethnic name is less likely to be called back for a job interview than an individual with a "normal name"; the criminal justice system sentences African-Americans to harsher sentences than whites who have committed the same crimes; police brutality rates against minorities are significantly higher than against whites; minorities have less access to higher education and are more likely to go to schools without the proper resources to educate them; the official unemployment rate is ten percent, whereas for the African-American it is fifteen percent. The list goes on. White privilege isn't something personal, it is built into the structures of our society, whether whites want it or not, and it is this context that leads me to be opposed to whites using the term. Far from prejudging whites, I am indicting a system which favors a particular group and, in our subjective experiences in the world, I think one needs to be conscious of this before saying that word.
Yes I would absolutely think that racism in the US can be furthered by any group, regardless of who is in power or what is deemed as the norm. This goes for any social divide. In no way am I saying that use of the word n*gga is the only, or most important, factor that furthers racism.
The difference between those in power and the powerless is, the former has the ability to transform those ideas into concrete reality. I can agree that all racism is bad, but that isn't the same as saying that all racism is equally destructive. So, for example, I don't think the racism of the slave is the same as the racism of the landowner, because the latter has effectively institutionalized their ideas within the governmental, economic and social framework.

[richter915]

VY16_nKORb8

This is kinda related to the discussion.

[JoshSalas]

"Can you lend a ***** a pencil?" made me burst out laughing, but it's interesting.

[awfulwaffle]

I'd be interested in the amount of people that are not minorities that have worked in impoverished areas where abuse of welfare is prevalent. I know as someone whose career has led them to work in such an area, I certainly feel there is a connotation to the word n*****, similar to white people described as white trash. That description being lazy, unmotivated, etc. Thoughts?

[sauce301]

the OP is suggesting that white americans cannot use the word n*gga because by being white, they assume a role of racial superiority and use of the word is automatically demeaning since it comes from a white person. The prejudgment is that any white person is racially superior and inherently racist in the US, regardless of where they may stand socioeconomically or politically, etc. This is where most of the disagreements on the use of the word is coming from.

I could be wrong tho, please someone correct me if I am.

haha, yeah, i figured that out as i was driving to get lunch. then i totally agree.

side note, i keep having to scroll over, cause i'm at work and a naked dude is your avatar. haha.

[deFobbed14yrs]

I'm Indian and for most of my life I was the only Indian person in my class of mainly white people and everything was cool. Never really experienced anything racist except if i had friends who were joking around. I come to college (St johns, one of the most diverse campuses like anywhere) and it's like BAM!
Every race voluntarily segregates themselves and the n-word flies around a lot. It's usually between black kids saying hey my n*gga to each other. It's cool, no one seems to be offended in that context. But it's like each race has their own issue with another race and like no one really goes outside their race aside from school work or whatever. It's kind of depressing.

Reminds me of the 60 minute special on last night regarding Huckelberry Finn. ZrL12tgaCCs
Short clip the segment was longer but it sums up the difference of the n-word and how some teachers are ok using he word for shock value and how its a good term to start debates and really get kids into the context of the book and how some teachers find it unnecessary to use the word.

The term also brings up the debate on if things that have gotten an evil connotation can ever bounce back and be reclaimed like Love As Arson was saying.
The swastika is a symbol deeply integrated in almost every society in the world. it goes back centuries and has appeared in every religion and culture and whatnot. But now if you see that symbol, you automatically think the Holocaust and Nazis, even though the symbol revolves around the meaning of peace.
In India, the symbol is used widely for religious practices, but since i live in America, i know the connotation that can occur when the swastika is used.

[Colinmac36]

the world is filled with racists unfortunately, still don't know why people could hate another group of people so much...I deal with racists everyday, i live in redneck town, new jersey. Can't find this video on Youtube but its from The Daily Show, its John Oliver's Report on racism in South Africa during the 2010 World Cup, extremely funny. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-5-2010/oliver---world-cup-2010--into-africa---the-amazing-racists

[sauce301]

White privilege is complex and the are a wide variety of axes on which power and prejudice turn. However, we should take into consideration the social situations that provide evidence. So, for example, a person with an ethnic name is less likely to be called back for a job interview than an individual with a "normal name"; the criminal justice system sentences African-Americans to harsher sentences than whites who have committed the same crimes; police brutality rates against minorities are significantly higher than against whites; minorities have less access to higher education and are more likely to go to schools without the proper resources to educate them; the official unemployment rate is ten percent, whereas for the African-American it is fifteen percent. The list goes on. White privilege isn't something personal, it is built into the structures of our society, whether whites want it or not, and it is this context that leads me to be opposed to whites using the term. Far from prejudging whites, I am indicting a system which favors a particular group and, in our subjective experiences in the world, I think one needs to be conscious of this before saying that word.

The difference between those in power and the powerless is, the former has the ability to transform those ideas into concrete reality. I can agree that all racism is bad, but that isn't the same as saying that all racism is equally destructive. So, for example, I don't think the racism of the slave is the same as the racism of the landowner, because the latter has effectively institutionalized their ideas within the governmental, economic and social framework.

if white privilege is built into our society, how does that account for even moderately successful minorities? basically what i'm saying, is that, if the system is so skewed, how is it that there are countless people of all ethic backgrounds who are able to just live a normal life? how do they somehow make it through the cracks if they have so much working against them? i've known lots of people who didn't come from the greatest of backgrounds, but managed to make their way to a good job and have a decent quality of life, and never blamed anyone for any short comings or speed bumps based on their race.

what would be your view on a comic doing a race based bit? for example, the chris rock bit you mentioned earlier, what are your thoughts on white people laughing at that?

and what would be your view on black against white racism? i see you said all racism is bad, but what meets your standards to qualify as racism?I'd be interested in the amount of people that are not minorities that have worked in impoverished areas where abuse of welfare is prevalent. I know as someone whose career has led them to work in such an area, I certainly feel there is a connotation to the word n*****, similar to white people described as white trash. That description being lazy, unmotivated, etc. Thoughts?
there's an entire louis ck bit, where he basically says that that's the only racist remark no one ever defends.

[allthruwinter]

My hat goes off to you, mam.
I've asked some of my black friends about that, and they explained some sort of difference between N***er and N***a, and I really didn't get it. It's like gay people calling each other fagget. It makes no sense.
I understand that language isn't stagnent, and that it has to be able to change and adapt, but if something is so offensive, then why don't people actually make a stand for it? I'm white, and I call people out for using the N-word, and everyone's like "why do you care? You're not black." Well, when someone targets me, I want someone to have my back. But it's more than that, it's just wrong. It's rude and angry and just immature.
The other thing that gets to me is the ignorance. Like, the thing with Huck Fin, where they changed the N-word to slave. They don't mean the same thing! It just angers me. *rants darkly*

Thanks. I agree with you wholeheartedly. The Huck Fin situation kind of annoys me, not to sound hypocritical of what I just said but as you said they don't mean the same thing. And it IS like gay people calling each other ******. It's offensive in ALL scenarios. But really what angers me the most is it being used as a term of endearment. That's just straight up stupid.

[Love As Arson]

if white privilege is built into our society, how does that account for even moderately successful minorities? basically what i'm saying, is that, if the system is so skewed, how is it that there are countless people of all ethic backgrounds who are able to just live a normal life? how do they somehow make it through the cracks if they have so much working against them? i've known lots of people who didn't come from the greatest of backgrounds, but managed to make their way to a good job and have a decent quality of life, and never blamed anyone for any short comings or speed bumps based on their race.
They succeed in spite of the system, not because of the system. There have also been reforms that people have fought for which allows minorities many opportunities. However, the fact that we continually point out how great it is that there are a few successful individuals demonstrates how out of the norm it is.

African American children who are born in the bottom quartile are nearly twice as likely to remain there as adults than are white children whose parents had identical incomes, and are four times less likely to attain the top quartile.
The difference in mobility for blacks and whites persists even after controlling for a host of parental background factors, children’s education and health, as well as whether the household was female-headed or receiving public assistance.
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2006/04/b1579981.html



what would be your view on a comic doing a race based bit? for example, the chris rock bit you mentioned earlier, what are your thoughts on white people laughing at that?
Well, I would point out another comic, Dave Chapelle, who quit his show because he feared people were laughing at it for the wrong reason. In regards to Chris Rock, I find it problematic if either blacks or whites laugh at it, but the latter stings a bit more because the bit confirms previously held stereotypes.



and what would be your view on black against white racism? i see you said all racism is bad, but what meets your standards to qualify as racism?
I think I address this earlier. All racism is bad, but not all racism is as destructive. It depends on social context and, in our case, we live in a country founded on white supremacy.

[Love As Arson]

2MnmmDiQSdA

[jakeyrotten]

I think Hispanics (a term I use begrudgingly) have replaced blacks as the main point of racism in this country. Blacks have been the more historically-discriminated people if we're talking actual goverment policy (Jim Crowe Laws, legalized segregation). But they're much farther along now than Latinos, who've been in this country just as long as blacks, if not longer. The main problem I think for Latinos is that they don't try to assimilate into the culture like previous generations did. When my grandfather came from Cuba in 1956 he became an American, not a Cuban-American, not a Hispanic-American, not any of the stupid PC prefixes society tells us we need. Honestly, I think we we tried to drop all this bullshit African-American, INdian-American, Lebanese-American crap, we would all be much better off. Not really responding to anything particular someone wrote, just my opinion.

[saysmydoctor]

Was waiting for a Dave Chapelle mention. The dude was spot-on in so many ways and it went over people's head. I didn't get the jokes much myself till I was older.

[Mibabalou]

2MnmmDiQSdA

What do you do for employment?

Not being mean / a dick im just curious.

[Love As Arson]

I think Hispanics (a term I use begrudgingly) have replaced blacks as the main point of racism in this country. Blacks have been the more historically-discriminated people if we're talking actual goverment policy (Jim Crowe Laws, legalized segregation). But they're much farther along now than Latinos, who've been in this country just as long as blacks, if not longer. The main problem I think for Latinos is that they don't try to assimilate into the culture like previous generations did. When my grandfather came from Cuba in 1956 he became an American, not a Cuban-American, not a Hispanic-American, not any of the stupid PC prefixes society tells us we need. Honestly, I think we we tried to drop all this bullshit African-American, INdian-American, Lebanese-American crap, we would all be much better off. Not really responding to anything particular someone wrote, just my opinion.
I don't think anyone should have to assimilate. I think that has been used as an excuse to demonize Latinos and place the blame on them for joblessness in America.

[Love As Arson]

What do you do for employment?

Not being mean / a dick im just curious.
I work for a recycling company.

[Mibabalou]

I work for a recycling company.

You should write a book.

[jakeyrotten]

I don't think anyone should have to assimilate. I think that has been used as an excuse to demonize Latinos and place the blame on them for joblessness in America.


By "assimilate" I didn't mean wear cotton dockers, play bridge and watch Jonny Carson (or whatever it is that gringos do). I meant they learn English and become part of the community as a whole, not just their own ethnic neighborhood. That's where the disconnect is I think. The people coming from Central and South Amercia these days (don't call them Spainish, they are not from Spain) simply come here to make some money to Western Union back to El Salvador or Honduras. They're not here because they're chasing the American Dream. I'm saying the immigrants of the past came here because they had an ideal of American as a place where anyone could succeed (which is still true today). The one fleeing civil war in San Salvador or Guatemalean famine aren't coming here with an ideal, they're coming with an appetite.

And yes assimilation is required. Would you move to Germany and not learn at least some conversational German, and would you move there just to move into a neighborhood that's full of Americans?

[xapplexpiex]

I feel stupid for asking, but what is the Chris rock distinction?
If I remember correctly, he says a ****** is pretty much a stereotypical "street thug black guy", but a black guy is just a black guy. Yeah...racism.

[sauce301]

They succeed in spite of the system, not because of the system. There have also been reforms that people have fought for which allows minorities many opportunities. However, the fact that we continually point out how great it is that there are a few successful individuals demonstrates how out of the norm it is.


http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2006/04/b1579981.html


Well, I would point out another comic, Dave Chapelle, who quit his show because he feared people were laughing at it for the wrong reason. In regards to Chris Rock, I find it problematic if either blacks or whites laugh at it, but the latter stings a bit more because the bit confirms previously held stereotypes.


I think I address this earlier. All racism is bad, but not all racism is as destructive. It depends on social context and, in our case, we live in a country founded on white supremacy.
i wasnt really stating that it's a great there are so few. what i meant was that there are so many successful people able to work through everything, that i don't someone's race is necessarily the deciding factor.

and in the instance of context, at what point do you think the deciding factor is in it being destructive? for example, using chapelle, in his special killing me softly, he consistently uses topics of race on both sides using negative stereotypes and charicatures for black people as well as racist stereotypes for white people. at what point is it not OK for him to do any of those bits, even in the context of entertainment? and if a white comic did the same bit is that ok? keep in mind how much chappelle's act involves him doing an impression of a white guy. and keep in mind how you feel if a comic did that in black face.

I think Hispanics (a term I use begrudgingly) have replaced blacks as the main point of racism in this country. Blacks have been the more historically-discriminated people if we're talking actual goverment policy (Jim Crowe Laws, legalized segregation). But they're much farther along now than Latinos, who've been in this country just as long as blacks, if not longer. The main problem I think for Latinos is that they don't try to assimilate into the culture like previous generations did. When my grandfather came from Cuba in 1956 he became an American, not a Cuban-American, not a Hispanic-American, not any of the stupid PC prefixes society tells us we need. Honestly, I think we we tried to drop all this bullshit African-American, INdian-American, Lebanese-American crap, we would all be much better off. Not really responding to anything particular someone wrote, just my opinion.

this.

[serenab1221]

Really explain why it hurts. Calling someone a fagget comes from when a fagget was a bundle of wood, only fit for burning. Calling someone, generally a homosexual, a fagget is saying, historically, that they are fit for burning and nothing more. It's an awful thing to say, and people don't understand it, because they just think it's cool. It's like motherfucker. Everyone says it, but then when they read Oedipus in english they all get freaked out.

Thank you for this. People are so quick to ignore or brush off the true original meaning of a term.

[Lueda Alia]

it sucks not being a native speaker sometimes in a foreign country, even if you speak it very well. it's worse in a country that doesn't have or isn't used to having a lot of foreigners/immigrants; i.e. europe.
Yeah, that's what kind of made it worse too, the fact that Canada is very multi-cultural. I was just really shocked to hear a woman in her mid-late 30s make such a comment, especially since she really had absolutely no reason to worry.

I would pretty much give up anything to get rid of whatever little accent I have left because I hate standing out. I can only imagine how much worse I would feel if I was discriminated against because of my skin colour. Discrimination is just awful and unjustifiable.

[Love As Arson]

You should write a book.
Ha. Thanks. My partner tells me I don't write books, because I use all the good stuff on this forum.

By "assimilate" I didn't mean wear cotton dockers, play bridge and watch Jonny Carson (or whatever it is that gringos do). I meant they learn English and become part of the community as a whole, not just their own ethnic neighborhood. That's where the disconnect is I think. The people coming from Central and South Amercia these days (don't call them Spainish, they are not from Spain) simply come here to make some money to Western Union back to El Salvador or Honduras. They're not here because they're chasing the American Dream. I'm saying the immigrants of the past came here because they had an ideal of American as a place where anyone could succeed (which is still true today). The one fleeing civil war in San Salvador or Guatemalean famine aren't coming here with an ideal, they're coming with an appetite
What is the difference between an El Salvadorian coming here to make money to send back to their company and an America corporation crossing borders, with no legal restrictions, to send money back here?



And yes assimilation is required. Would you move to Germany and not learn at least some conversational German, and would you move there just to move into a neighborhood that's full of Americans?

MYTH: Immigrants are not assimilating and don’t want to learn English.

FACT: Immigrants are assimilating at much the same rate as past waves of immigrants.

There is a widespread assumption that today’s immigrants, unlike immigrants of the past, are not interested in learning English and this “influx” of immigrants, predominantly from Latin America, is larger than in any other time in history. However, every wave of immigrants in America has been accused of not assimilating into American society, according to Jason Riley, author of Let Them In: The Case for Open Borders. As popular this narrative may be, it is based in perception rather than reality.

Here are some facts about immigrants and assimilation:

FACT: There are more immigrants currently entering the United States per year than in the past, but at a lower rate of the overall U.S. population than during past waves of immigration. For example, during the 1990s, about 1.5 Mexican immigrants entered for every 1,000 U.S. residents per year. In the mid-19th century, there were an estimated 3.6 Irish immigrants entering each year for every 1,000. (Riley, 2008).

FACT: Language is often seen as the key to integration into society. Throughout history, newly arrived adult immigrants have not been fluent English speakers. However, English language acquisition picks up rapidly for their children and the second and third generations. The vast majority of immigrants who came to the U.S. as children speak English well. Among the second generation, 92 percent of Latinos and 96 percent of Asians are English proficient and many are bilingual in their mother tongue. By the third generation, 72 percent of Latinos and 92 percent of Asians speak only English. (Alba, Richard. “Bilingualism Persists, But English Still Dominates,” February 2005).

FACT: Demand for English classes at the adult level far exceeds supply, and learning a new language requires a great deal of time and instruction. A 2006 survey conducted by the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials found that in 12 states, 60 percent of the free English programs had waiting lists, ranging from a few months in Colorado and Nevada to as long as two years in New Mexico. In Massachusetts, more than 180,000 residents are on a waiting list for ESL classes, with an average wait of six months to two years

http://supportimmigrationreform.org/blog/assimilation/

[Lueda Alia]

I'm Indian and for most of my life I was the only Indian person in my class of mainly white people and everything was cool. Never really experienced anything racist except if i had friends who were joking around. I come to college (St johns, one of the most diverse campuses like anywhere) and it's like BAM!
Every race voluntarily segregates themselves and the n-word flies around a lot. It's usually between black kids saying hey my n*gga to each other. It's cool, no one seems to be offended in that context. But it's like each race has their own issue with another race and like no one really goes outside their race aside from school work or whatever. It's kind of depressing.
I've been complaining about this for years now. Nothing bothers me more than when kids only hang out with others of the same race/nationality. It seriously frustrates me so much.

When I first moved to Canada, Albanian kids in my high school sort of expected me to just hang out with them, etc. Never happened. Yeah, I became friends with them, but I absolutely did not prefer them over any other friends that I made. At this point in my life, I don't even really have any Albanian friends anymore, and I don't care to befriend any others just because we share the same background. Nationality and race mean absolutely nothing to me. They are not what makes a person and I wish more people would feel the same way.

[Love As Arson]

i wasnt really stating that it's a great there are so few. what i meant was that there are so many successful people able to work through everything, that i don't someone's race is necessarily the deciding factor.
I provided a link which demonstrates otherwise. In any event, I wasn't referring to you personally. My point was that, if the success of minorities were the norm, then this narrative wouldn't be as special as some make it out to be. The fact that it is considered special demonstrates how out of the norm it is.


and in the instance of context, at what point do you think the deciding factor is in it being destructive? for example, using chapelle, in his special killing me softly, he consistently uses topics of race on both sides using negative stereotypes and charicatures for black people as well as racist stereotypes for white people.
Chapelle's use of race, in my mind, is perfectly balanced. He uses stereotypes to demonstrate how ridiculous racist ideas are, how blacks are treated by cops and so on. Now, in Killing Them Softly, he speaks about his white friend Chip and he getting high, and his friend going to ask a cop directions. This is incredibly amusing because of the way Chapelle speaks about it and the way he drives home his larger point: Whites receive better treatment than minorities by authority figures. His depiction of whites isn't racist, so much as it is revealing the privileged status.
keep in mind how much chappelle's act involves him doing an impression of a white guy. and keep in mind how you feel if a comic did that in black face.
Again, you say you are using context, but you seem to misunderstand it and then go on to act as though we live in a state of racial equality. We do not and it is different when people without power make fun of people with privilege. To use a comparable example which doesn't overtly deal with race, let's look at the economic crisis; it is different for me to make fun of a banker for being a fat cat as opposed to a banker making fun of people who have lost their home. The reason it is different is because of the difference in power. The same applies to racial humor.

at what point is it not OK for him to do any of those bits, even in the context of entertainment? and if a white comic did the same bit is that ok? keep in mind how much chappelle's act involves him doing an impression of a white guy. and keep in mind how you feel if a comic did that in black face.
Well, I can give you an example of destructive comedy: The comedy of Carlos Mencia. There is no nuance, it is simply a repetition of stereotypes.

[sauce301]

What is the difference between an El Salvadorian coming here to make money to send back to their company and an America corporation crossing borders, with no legal restrictions, to send money back here?


i think he was talking about sending money back to their families, but i actually agree with you here. i worked in a number of restaurants, who employed different south american immigrants. those dudes were always pretty cool, and would help out with whatever i needed. we treated them fairly and they never complained. and a lot of times they would work seven days a week, not because we were dicks and over scheduling them, but because they wanted to. if they got any less than that, they'd be pissed. so i don't really have a problem with them sending money back to their families.

[richter915]

haha, yeah, i figured that out as i was driving to get lunch. then i totally agree.

side note, i keep having to scroll over, cause i'm at work and a naked dude is your avatar. haha.
haha sorry about that. Fixt

[allthruwinter]

The worst part is he's not even a bad person. Think of him as the father from American History X. He's just a hard worker and something back in the day triggered him to hate black people. I don't know what it was, but I won't allow that racist shit around my son. It started to rub off on me when I was younger to the point I was really hateful towards anyone who wasn't white. I mean, I was borderline white supremesist. I hated everyone.

Thankfully, I have changed and moved away from said racism.

You're proof that we're not our parents. The only way to stop that bullshit is to end it with ourselves. And honestly I think you did the right thing by removing your kid from that language/attitude.

[Qadriyyah]

Only people who come from Africa (not their ancestors) are African Americans.

My grandfather hated the term "African- American". He used to tell me when I was a kid that we weren't African-American, we were American. I never fully understood until I was older.

And as for the n-word I use it and not as a term of endearment either. When someone is being incredibly ignorant I say it. N***as come in all races.

[J.C.]

You should write a book.

Out of 100% recyclable material.

[sauce301]

I provided a link which demonstrates otherwise. In any event, I wasn't referring to you personally. My point was that, if the success of minorities were the norm, then this narrative wouldn't be as special as some make it out to be. The fact that it is considered special demonstrates how out of the norm it is.



Chapelle's use of race, in my mind, is perfectly balanced. He uses stereotypes to demonstrate how ridiculous racist ideas are, how blacks are treated by cops and so on. Now, in Killing Them Softly, he speaks about his white friend Chip and he getting high, and his friend going to ask a cop directions. This is incredibly amusing because of the way Chapelle speaks about it and the way he drives home his larger point: Whites receive better treatment than minorities by authority figures. His depiction of whites isn't racist, so much as it is revealing the privileged status.

Again, you say you are using context, but you seem to misunderstand it and then go on to act as though we live in a state of racial equality. We do not and it is different when people without power make fun of people with privilege. To use a comparable example which doesn't overtly deal with race, let's look at the economic crisis; it is different for me to make fun of a banker for being a fat cat as opposed to a banker making fun of people who have lost their home. The reason it is different is because of the difference in power. The same applies to racial humor.


Well, I can give you an example of destructive comedy: The comedy of Carlos Mencia. There is no nuance, it is simply a repetition of stereotypes.

sorry, i'm at work, so i'm not really able to go to the site and respond with more links. i'm doing a bunch of other things, so forgive me if my arguement comes off half assed, haha.

however, comedian's jokes aren't necessarily true stories. in the same set up, he says how chip started to confess that he was high. your average cop, black or white, would not just let that pass. and what is to say a black cop wouldn't treat a white suspect unfairly? and if you use the arguement that chapelle uses the white stereotype to shed light on privilege, using a double standard and saying that a white comic couldn't do the same to emphasize black stereotypes isn't fair. you're continuing to say that it is only ok for certain people to say certain things in certain settings. once again, i'd love to find links, but i am at work.

and carlos mencia is destructive not to racism, but to comedy itself.

[Love As Arson]

sorry, i'm at work, so i'm not really able to go to the site and respond with more links. i'm doing a bunch of other things, so forgive me if my arguement comes off half assed, haha.

however, comedian's jokes aren't necessarily true stories. in the same set up, he says how chip started to confess that he was high. your average cop, black or white, would not just let that pass. and what is to say a black cop wouldn't treat a white suspect unfairly? and if you use the arguement that chapelle uses the white stereotype to shed light on privilege, using a double standard and saying that a white comic couldn't do the same to emphasize black stereotypes isn't fair. you're continuing to say that it is only ok for certain people to say certain things in certain settings. once again, i'd love to find links, but i am at work.

and carlos mencia is destructive not to racism, but to comedy itself.
I think I've explained my reasoning enough, in regards to the differences in social context and why certain people should not say some things. I am not going to repeat myself over again, only to be met with the same arguments I've countered.

As for your comments on Chapelle's routine, I think I spoke about how blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate than whites, which is what I think Chapelle was pointing out. And I've never said white people aren't hurt by cops, only that whites are harassed at a far lower rates.

[sauce301]

I think I've explained my reasoning enough, in regards to the differences in social context and why certain people should not say some things. I am not going to repeat myself over again, only to be met with the same arguments I've countered.

As for your comments on Chapelle's routine, I think I spoke about how blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate than whites, which is what I think Chapelle was pointing out. And I've never said white people aren't hurt by cops, only that whites are harassed at a far lower rates.

cool man. thread was interesting nonetheless. it's cool to hear other people's opinions even if i don't agree with them.

[sdbrown]

Has anyone ever used the term 'cracker' non-ironically?
My friend at work (mall job) asked a black woman if she needed any help. She responded "Not from your white ass, cracker". Though I believe she was with a group of individuals that routinely come into our store to steal, and they act really mean to us because they want us to leave them alone. Sometimes I wonder why they are so mean because it just brings attention to them. People steal stuff all the time from our store but we don't immediately recognize them because they don't treat us like shit.

They totally try to make it seem like a racist thing too. Last time I let one of them into the fitting rooms (I didn't even know she was part of the group) and she told me "I have 4 things. I know you want to know because all of you think black people steal." I was just dumbfounded. Especially because 1. some black people steal, but so do a lot of whites, Asians, West Asian, rich, poor, ugly, pretty, etc etc etc etc people and 2. I'm technically not even white.

This isn't technically racism, but being Jewish in a very Christian neighborhood, I've unfortunately had to deal with some pretty insulting and hurtful anti-Semitism.

In fact, at one point in high school, the word "Jewish" was being used by a bunch of kids as a derogatory term (e.g.: "man this movie sucks, so jewish", etc.)
I'm always a bit surprised when I hear anti-semitism. I am just so taken aback like "whoa! That person "jew'd you down"? I didn't realize it was still 1940"

Every time I discuss this topic, I am reminded of an article I read years ago called "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack." I'll attach the whole article, but also include the list of things in the "white knapsack."

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area, which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
...
25. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.
26. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in “flesh” color and have them more or less match my skin.
I think White Privilege is somewhat of a misnomer for this list. Many of these 'privileges' cross over to being a majority/minority ANYWHERE. (i.e., you could be white and living in Japan and you wouldn't find many white people in magazines, foods you liked, it'd be hard to find clothes that fit if you're over 5'7, neighbors think you'll be noisy, etc. etc. (those are actual problems a friend teaching in Japan related to me). Another friend traveling in Singapore couldn't get her hair cut for 6 months because hair dressers didn't know what to do with her not pin-straight hair.)

[serenab1221]

Never experienced any racism myself, but I have experienced homophobia and a dash of discrimination for being a female.

Any and all discrimination is a terrible thing. The fact that one human being can think less of another based simply on something the other human being cannot help is disturbing.

[caveBEAR]

And as for the n-word I use it and not as a term of endearment either. When someone is being incredibly ignorant I say it. N***as come in all races.

Doesn't make you using the term any less shitty.

[derekrvr]

Yeah, that's what kind of made it worse too, the fact that Canada is very multi-cultural. I was just really shocked to hear a woman in her mid-late 30s make such a comment, especially since she really had absolutely no reason to worry.

I would pretty much give up anything to get rid of whatever little accent I have left because I hate standing out. I can only imagine how much worse I would feel if I was discriminated against because of my skin colour. Discrimination is just awful and unjustifiable.


The irony of the situation is that everyone is discriminated against for something they can't control. Everyone's been in that situation, and no one really takes it into account.
I believe that everyone has prejudice -- we all think things based upon stereotypes -- but racism is completely different. (That wasn't stated at you, but an opinion. And I was posting, so just threw that in there.)

[perceptrons]

I think White Privilege is somewhat of a misnomer for this list. Many of these 'privileges' cross over to being a majority/minority ANYWHERE. (i.e., you could be white and living in Japan and you wouldn't find many white people in magazines, foods you liked, it'd be hard to find clothes that fit if you're over 5'7, neighbors think you'll be noisy, etc. etc. (those are actual problems a friend teaching in Japan related to me). Another friend traveling in Singapore couldn't get her hair cut for 6 months because hair dressers didn't know what to do with her not pin-straight hair.)
While I agree, when it was written and why it was written put more context into the title. It's linked in that post if you didn't read the whole thing.

[deFobbed14yrs]

I've been complaining about this for years now. Nothing bothers me more than when kids only hang out with others of the same race/nationality. It seriously frustrates me so much.

When I first moved to Canada, Albanian kids in my high school sort of expected me to just hang out with them, etc. Never happened. Yeah, I became friends with them, but I absolutely did not prefer them over any other friends that I made. At this point in my life, I don't even really have any Albanian friends anymore, and I don't care to befriend any others just because we share the same background. Nationality and race mean absolutely nothing to me. They are not what makes a person and I wish more people would feel the same way.

EXACTLY!!!!!! Like I grew up in mainly a white town and have no Indian friends. It really hasn't changed since I've been to college. It's like i get it, culture is like a baby blanket and people have strong ideals and stuff. But that doesn't mean you can't explore outside your race. That's how you defeat racism, by having everyone expose themselves to something outside of their comfort zone. Then they will see that everyone is the same and stereotyping someone or hating someone because of their skin color of where they're from is stupid.

[joeag1985]

This isn't so much blatantly racist as it simply shows how unbelievably stupid and ignorant some people are..

0XWAuoGg4jY

[richter915]

White privilege is complex and the are a wide variety of axes on which power and prejudice turn. However, we should take into consideration the social situations that provide evidence. So, for example, a person with an ethnic name is less likely to be called back for a job interview than an individual with a "normal name"; the criminal justice system sentences African-Americans to harsher sentences than whites who have committed the same crimes; police brutality rates against minorities are significantly higher than against whites; minorities have less access to higher education and are more likely to go to schools without the proper resources to educate them; the official unemployment rate is ten percent, whereas for the African-American it is fifteen percent. The list goes on. White privilege isn't something personal, it is built into the structures of our society, whether whites want it or not, and it is this context that leads me to be opposed to whites using the term. Far from prejudging whites, I am indicting a system which favors a particular group and, in our subjective experiences in the world, I think one needs to be conscious of this before saying that word.
But you are indirectly blaming all white americans for this institution and that simply by being white, they must be held accountable for the racist nation they were born into. This is not entirely different from whites arguing that blacks enjoy the ghetto based on what kanye and nelly say (in fact we have some posters in this thread who have asserted just that by citing rap songs and glorification of 'the hood'). I understand that you're drawing a distinction between the haves and the have nots but that does not discount the fact that you are prejudging those of a certain race...that they are all participants in a system and for that they must act a certain way.

The difference between those in power and the powerless is, the former has the ability to transform those ideas into concrete reality. I can agree that all racism is bad, but that isn't the same as saying that all racism is equally destructive. So, for example, I don't think the racism of the slave is the same as the racism of the landowner, because the latter has effectively institutionalized their ideas within the governmental, economic and social framework.so do you argue that black americans with power truly do not have it. Colin powell, the obamas...based on your argument, since they do have power, if they held similar assertions as yours, they are equally as racist as white racists because they are in a position of power. I know the response to this is "just because obama is president doesn't mean that blacks are now equal to whites in america" and I agree...but I think that we have to look at racism on a person to person basis. So many posters here have said "i know someone who says and does racist things, but outside of that they are generally good people" We cannot assume that since white americans can institutionalize racism that other groups cannot be held equally as guilty of racist tendencies. When we do that, we justify racism and if you have minorities justifying racism, than you will have those in power justifying racism and that is a scary thing.

[LastDeclaration]

It's the intentions, not the words, that matter.

[richter915]

2MnmmDiQSdA
pretty dumb argument to be honest. It's promoting the notion of white guilt in people who may have had nothing to do with it other than be white. Why should a white immigrant to this country in the past 30 years or so have to deal with guilt?

[saturday_snow_squall]

It's the intentions, not the words, that matter.
quite.

[richter915]

This isn't so much blatantly racist as it simply shows how unbelievably stupid and ignorant some people are..

0XWAuoGg4jY
This is really why people just kinda hate America.

[richter915]

EXACTLY!!!!!! Like I grew up in mainly a white town and have no Indian friends. It really hasn't changed since I've been to college. It's like i get it, culture is like a baby blanket and people have strong ideals and stuff. But that doesn't mean you can't explore outside your race. That's how you defeat racism, by having everyone expose themselves to something outside of their comfort zone. Then they will see that everyone is the same and stereotyping someone or hating someone because of their skin color of where they're from is stupid.
I'm the first brown guy my gf has ever befriended or dated. And she's the first brown girl I've dated. We both grew up as the only brown ones at school, we both only dated white folk, we only met cause our undergrads were extremely diverse and our white counterparts realized that dating a minority did not cure their racist parents.

[perceptrons]

For those that have followed it, what do you think of the Jalen Rose/Grant Hill stuff?

[JoshSalas]

This is really why people just kinda hate America.

I hate those kind of videos because they probably only show the stupidest people they meet, the hosts are usually cocky douche-bags, and they ask stupid questions. Yes, I can point out Ireland on a map and do happen to know what colour the flag is, but can I tell you a whole lot about Ireland, its culture/ whatever he was expecting as responses to his first few question? No, not really.

[a nice person]

For those that have followed it, what do you think of the Jalen Rose/Grant Hill stuff?

There's great commentary by mike wilbon on ESPN.com. He wrote an article, i don't have the link, but you can probably just google it.

[perceptrons]

There's great commentary by mike wilbon on ESPN.com. He wrote an article, i don't have the link, but you can probably just google it.
I assume this (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=6227464) is it? That's a much more balanced article than some of the others I had read. Most of the one's I had come across seemed to just blast Rose and I didn't understand why.

[Matt Chylak]

It's the intentions, not the words, that matter.

quite.

...that "should" matter. use the n*gger in common conversation and see how people (of all races) react

[perceptrons]

It really boggles my mind that a white person would argue about whether or not they should be able to say the word. Why would you want to?

[KingsCrossing]

I'm not religious at all but Judaism is the one religion I come to appreciate both its ritual and culture. So I'm usually quick to defend any attacks against Jewish people. It actually wasn't until I was in high school that I learned that my grandfather was born to Jewish parents but he never had a proper Jewish upbringing. But what I find stupid is how kids in your example use Jewish as a derogatory term. It doesn't even make sense. If I were you, I would have least called out those kids in those incidences.

It was really tough to call these kids out as they represented the majority of the kids in the school and/or were typically part of the "popular" crowd. Also to be honest, I wasn't really all that religious in high school so I more or less learned to shrug it off. However, as I've grown older I've begun to re-embrace the cultural aspect of Judaism so I wish I could've gone back and spoke up more against it.

i noticed a lot of that at my very white, very christian suburban public school. not to mention all kinds of anti-homosexual slurs.

Yeah, it doesn't help that our town is also home to the Archdiocese of Long Island and is the 2nd largest Archdiocese in the country. What's funny is that less than 10 minutes away, there is one of the largest Jewish communities in New York, if not the U.S.

I'm always a bit surprised when I hear anti-semitism. I am just so taken aback like "whoa! That person "jew'd you down"? I didn't realize it was still 1940"


Unfortunately, I am convinced that anti-semitism will never really go away. Judaism has always been a target for discrimination throughout history. The Holocaust is still considered relatively recent, yet the overall sentiment of anti-semitism has diminished very little since then.

[*crying stars*]

When I was younger, there was an incident of a woman calling my mother a "stupid Jap" in a Wal-Mart or something. An argument followed, a loud one as you can imagine, but I was a bit too young to understand the implication of the term. Other than that, I've been lucky enough not to encounter such racism since.

A couple of years ago when I first started at school, I heard someone casually use the term "JAP" and I was perplexed/waiting for an explanation. As a student on a campus with a fairly large Jewish community, I found out that JAP was a casual term that stood for Jewish American Princess. Needless to say, I warned anyone who uses the term to tread carefully, hah.

[Matt Chylak]

It really boggles my mind that a white person would argue about whether or not they should be able to say the word. Why would you want to?

mainly it's about singing along with rap lyrics in public

[JoshSalas]

When I was younger, there was an incident of a woman calling my mother a "stupid Jap" in a Wal-Mart or something. An argument followed, a loud one as you can imagine, but I was a bit too young to understand the implication of the term. Other than that, I've been lucky enough not to encounter such racism since.

A couple of years ago when I first started at school, I heard someone casually use the term "JAP" and I was perplexed/waiting for an explanation. As a student on a campus with a fairly large Jewish community, I found out that JAP was a casual term that stood for Jewish American Princess. Needless to say, I warned anyone who uses the term to tread carefully, hah.

I once used the term in grade 7 or 8, I can't remember, because I thought it was just a literal short-form. A teacher took who was pretty upset (his wife is Japanese I later found out) took me aside to tell me about it and I never used it again haha.

[neo506]

Heard a lot of comments start like this recently

"Ya know, I'm not racist, but___________"


:hitself:

[DeviateRogue]

It really boggles my mind that a white person would argue about whether or not they should be able to say the word. Why would you want to?
I think it's not the actual word, but that it's "taboo" for a white guy to say it.

[floormaster925]

today i was asked if i wanted mayo on my sandwich, how insulting

[EasySkankin]

...that "should" matter. use the n*gger in common conversation and see how people (of all races) react

And why do they react that way? It's stupid. If I yell NI**ER out loud and people get angry about, it has nothing to do with racism, it has to do with a word. Do you really think you're actually combating racism by attacking a word? It boggles my mind how ridiculous that is. You are only furthering people's distinctions between races.

[sauce301]

But you are indirectly blaming all white americans for this institution and that simply by being white, they must be held accountable for the racist nation they were born into. This is not entirely different from whites arguing that blacks enjoy the ghetto based on what kanye and nelly say (in fact we have some posters in this thread who have asserted just that by citing rap songs and glorification of 'the hood'). I understand that you're drawing a distinction between the haves and the have nots but that does not discount the fact that you are prejudging those of a certain race...that they are all participants in a system and for that they must act a certain way.

so do you argue that black americans with power truly do not have it. Colin powell, the obamas...based on your argument, since they do have power, if they held similar assertions as yours, they are equally as racist as white racists because they are in a position of power. I know the response to this is "just because obama is president doesn't mean that blacks are now equal to whites in america" and I agree...but I think that we have to look at racism on a person to person basis. So many posters here have said "i know someone who says and does racist things, but outside of that they are generally good people" We cannot assume that since white americans can institutionalize racism that other groups cannot be held equally as guilty of racist tendencies. When we do that, we justify racism and if you have minorities justifying racism, than you will have those in power justifying racism and that is a scary thing.

this is basically what i was trying to say earlier, but can't because i'm not smart enough, haha.

[deFobbed14yrs]

I'm the first brown guy my gf has ever befriended or dated. And she's the first brown girl I've dated. We both grew up as the only brown ones at school, we both only dated white folk, we only met cause our undergrads were extremely diverse and our white counterparts realized that dating a minority did not cure their racist parents.

haha i only date white guys. My current bf is half Irish half Filipino, so i guess that counts as kinda asian. I have never met parents who didn't like me b/c im brown, guess i'm lucky. My last bf's mom loved me and my current bf's mom who is his irsh part, loves me too.

Side question: I still haven't told my parents about him even though its been six months. DO you keep your parents informed of your dating life or is it like my family whee you don't introduce anyone until like the dude is about to propose in like a year or so.

[The Personist]

And why do they react that way? It's stupid. If I yell NI**ER out loud and people get angry about, it has nothing to do with racism, it has to do with a word. Do you really think you're actually combating racism by attacking a word? It boggles my mind how ridiculous that is. You are only furthering people's distinctions between races.

Meaning is all about context, and the context of n*gger is such that its meaning IS racist. It's never JUST a word. Words are never JUST words, ever.

[EasySkankin]

Meaning is all about context, and the context of n*gger is such that its meaning IS racist. It's never JUST a word. Words are never JUST words, ever.
Words are just words. It's the meaning represented behind them that have any substance at all. N*gger doesn't mean the same thing anymore, if that isn't obvious enough. You contradict yourself in your first sentence. Even if we strip back the meaning of the word to only include black people, it still isn't racism in and of itself, no more than calling someone black is racist.

[Matt Chylak]

And why do they react that way? It's stupid. If I yell NI**ER out loud and people get angry about, it has nothing to do with racism, it has to do with a word. Do you really think you're actually combating racism by attacking a word? It boggles my mind how ridiculous that is. You are only furthering people's distinctions between races.

you're implying that we should divorce words from their meaning. n*gger has a very negative context when anyone but a black person uses it due to it's etymological growth. people are getting angry because you're using a racial slur, whether it's to prove a point or put someone down. you're acting like you shouldn't be held accountable for the words you use.

furthermore, there's a difference between staying empathetic to others' feelings and trying to "combat racism by attacking a word."

[richter915]

haha i only date white guys. My current bf is half Irish half Filipino, so i guess that counts as kinda asian. I have never met parents who didn't like me b/c im brown, guess i'm lucky. My last bf's mom loved me and my current bf's mom who is his irsh part, loves me too.

Side question: I still haven't told my parents about him even though its been six months. DO you keep your parents informed of your dating life or is it like my family whee you don't introduce anyone until like the dude is about to propose in like a year or so.
meh, i'm not a big fan of interracial dating, I feel like it's a slap in the face of my culture and my parents. At the same time, I keep my gf from my parents because she's not the "right" kind of brown (you know, doctor/engineer). But ya, I do not tell them and she especially does not tell her parents. The idea of "dating" is generally a foreign concept to brown parents, depends on how westernized they are. They assume that pre-marital dating = pre-marital sex.

oh big edit, I only think interracial dating is wrong for me based on my own personal experiences and upbringing. I don't care what other ppl do with their lives.

[Sean Rizzo]

It's the intentions, not the words, that matter.
I agree, but I feel like there are some words with such strong connotations that they shouldn't ever be used.

[EasySkankin]

you're implying that we should divorce words from their meaning. n*gger has a very negative context when anyone but a black person uses it due to it's etymological growth. people are getting angry because you're using a racial slur, whether it's to prove a point or put someone down. you're acting like you shouldn't be held accountable for the words you use.

furthermore, there's a difference between staying empathetic to others' feelings and trying to "combat racism by attacking a word."

@bold: how is this true at all? Where does that come from? White people use it in almost exactly the same manner black people do, with a sort of camaraderie. You're completely ignoring context. It isn't racial anymore, it's the objectors that keep tagging race onto it because they don't want it to change from its historical use, which only goes to further racial divides.

I should be held accountable, but give me a fair trial. N*gga is just a "dirty" word, like cunt or motherfucker, but it most definitely does not mean i'm racist. You can judge me for using it if you want, the same way you can judge me for using dirty words, but don't assume i'm racist because that's wholly ignorant and incorrect. I use the word among both white and black friends, and they know when I call them n*gga it's because I love them, not hate them. If you think that's wrong then you're free to judge. I think it's great.

It isn't empathic at all, it's a total front. Like other people have pointed out, it's mostly white people who will actively object the use of the word.

[deFobbed14yrs]

meh, i'm not a big fan of interracial dating, I feel like it's a slap in the face of my culture and my parents. At the same time, I keep my gf from my parents because she's not the "right" kind of brown (you know, doctor/engineer). But ya, I do not tell them and she especially does not tell her parents. The idea of "dating" is generally a foreign concept to brown parents, depends on how westernized they are. They assume that pre-marital dating = pre-marital sex.

oh big edit, I only think interracial dating is wrong for me based on my own personal experiences and upbringing. I don't care what other ppl do with their lives.

It's a good thing you put that edit b/c I would have been like WTF. lol. My parents and family is pretty chill, like we have a white guy married in and a different type of brown married in and a Christian indian gonna one day marry in.

[DrStrong]

I actually have a racist experience that actually happened to me about an hour ago!

I went to a muffler shop to get my exhaust looked at, there was a group of hispanic mechanics sitting around and one of them said, "que paso guero?", which means, "whats up white boy?". Now, i chose to not say anything, it was obvious they assumed I didnt know Spanish.

I could have said, "nada paisa!", which is slang for "nothing mexican"...but that word paisa is taken in a negative way when coming from a white person.

[richter915]

It's a good thing you put that edit b/c I would have been like WTF. lol. My parents and family is pretty chill, like we have a white guy married in and a different type of brown married in and a Christian indian gonna one day marry in.
ya exactly. That's probably a racist thing i experience that effects me...my parents disapprove of non-bengali girls in my life. Oh well, sucks for them.

[deFobbed14yrs]

ya exactly. That's probably a racist thing i experience that effects me...my parents disapprove of non-bengali girls in my life. Oh well, sucks for them.

Ah man sorry about that and about your parents. I always thought my parents were strict but then i went to college and met other indian girls with wayyyyy stricter parents and i'm like "damn i got it good".

[caveBEAR]

@bold: how is this true at all? Where does that come from? White people use it in almost exactly the same manner black people do, with a sort of camaraderie. You're completely ignoring context. It isn't racial anymore, it's the objectors that keep tagging race onto it because they don't want it to change from its historical use, which only goes to further racial divides.

I should be held accountable, but give me a fair trial. N*gga is just a "dirty" word, like cunt or motherfucker, but it most definitely does not mean i'm racist. You can judge me for using it if you want, the same way you can judge me for using dirty words, but don't assume i'm racist because that's wholly ignorant and incorrect. I use the word among both white and black friends, and they know when I call them n*gga it's because I love them, not hate them. If you think that's wrong then you're free to judge. I think it's great.

It isn't empathic at all, it's a total front. Like other people have pointed out, it's mostly white people who will actively object the use of the word.

Ha. Yeah, except for the white people who still use it with hate and venom...which is why some black people (and people of any race) object to white people using the word.

If you can't see how some people would see a white person using the word in any context as offensive due to the history of the word...well, then you're either playing dumb or actually dumb.

[EasySkankin]

Ha. Yeah, except for the white people who still use it with hate and venom...which is why some black people (and people of any race) object to white people using the word.

If you can't see how some people would see a white person using the word in any context as offensive due to the history of the word...well, then you're either playing dumb or actually dumb.
Ah, the old "wow, you don't agree with me. You're dumb" ploy. Well played.

[Love As Arson]

But you are indirectly blaming all white americans for this institution and that simply by being white, they must be held accountable for the racist nation they were born into
I'm not blaming anyone, indirectly or otherwise. In what way, am I asking them to be held accountable? I certainly am asking that they be aware of their privilege and to be conscious of the words they use.

This is not entirely different from whites arguing that blacks enjoy the ghetto based on what kanye and nelly say (in fact we have some posters in this thread who have asserted just that by citing rap songs and glorification of 'the hood').
At this point, you are coming to conclusions based on nothing I've said in my posts. I fail to see where you are drawing the parallel between what I've said and what people who hold up Kanye/Nelly as representative of the black community.

I understand that you're drawing a distinction between the haves and the have nots but that does not discount the fact that you are prejudging those of a certain race...that they are all participants in a system and for that they must act a certain way.
As I said, institutional racism isn't something personal. It is built into the system and yes, whites do benefit from them, even if they are explicitly anti-racist. Let me give you an example: A fellow socialist and I were walking down a street. The person I was walking was white. As we were walking down the street, a cop stopped me, asked me where I was headed and if I lived around there. He said nothing to my friend. Now, as I said, my friend is an anti-racist/socialist activist, so this incident doesn't reflect on him as a person, but rather the privilege that he inherently has as not being automatically considered a threat by authority figures. That doesn't involve prejudging. In fact, I've provided information regarding trends within our institutions, as opposed to indictments of whites in general.




so do you argue that black americans with power truly do not have it. Colin powell, the obamas...based on your argument, since they do have power, if they held similar assertions as yours, they are equally as racist as white racists because they are in a position of power
I don't believe they are racists, I do believe that they actively perpetuate a racist system. But, using Obama as an example, let us look at his treatment on the campaign trail, the questions he was asked, the attacks used by his opponents, the charge that he is not an American, etc. The fact that many of his counterparts did not have to address the same types of issues, I would argue, is evidence of white privilege. As I said, there are complicated systems of power which exist in a capitalist system of power, and in this particular case, class comes to fore, and one can say that Obama and Powell are elites and, while they may have to still deal with white supremacy and white privilege, their economic station has afforded them a significant degree of protection. This is the privilege of class and yes, it has to be dealt with in the same immediacy as we do white privilege.

but I think that we have to look at racism on a person to person basis. So many posters here have said "i know someone who says and does racist things, but outside of that they are generally good people"
That is exactly the type of viewpoint I am vehemently opposed to. Yes, I do believe we need to call out racist individuals when they espouse those views; however, so long as we relegate the talk of race to specific individuals, we will never be able to address the systemic issue of racism. There is a reason blacks are sentenced to harsher sentences and it is not simply because the judge says n*gger in the backroom; rather it is due to a systematic paradigm in which black males are considered more dangerous. Following your reasoning, we'd have to root out all the racists and that would change everything, but that simply is not the case; we have to start with where these tendencies came from, the economic factors in crime, how laws have been created to punish minorities more, etc.


" We cannot assume that since white americans can institutionalize racism that other groups cannot be held equally as guilty of racist tendencies. When we do that, we justify racism and if you have minorities justifying racism, than you will have those in power justifying racism and that is a scary thing.
I think I said quite clearly that all racism is bad and gave Bill Cosby as an example of someone who spouts racist rhetoric, and I would argue that his form of racism is particularly damaging because it is directed towards a group that is already oppressed. Where I drew a distinction is the effects of racism directed towards black as opposed to racism directed towards whites. Let me reiterate that neither is acceptable, but the state of white privilege/supremacy is such that the latter has no concrete effect on the lives of white Americans and, given the ideological nature of the country, is grounds to get one called crazy.

[Love As Arson]

pretty dumb argument to be honest. It's promoting the notion of white guilt in people who may have had nothing to do with it other than be white. Why should a white immigrant to this country in the past 30 years or so have to deal with guilt?
There is a difference between advocating guilt and and advocating a consciousness of history.

[SiriusBusiness]

meh, i'm not a big fan of interracial dating, I feel like it's a slap in the face of my culture and my parents. At the same time, I keep my gf from my parents because she's not the "right" kind of brown (you know, doctor/engineer). But ya, I do not tell them and she especially does not tell her parents. The idea of "dating" is generally a foreign concept to brown parents, depends on how westernized they are. They assume that pre-marital dating = pre-marital sex.

oh big edit, I only think interracial dating is wrong for me based on my own personal experiences and upbringing. I don't care what other ppl do with their lives.
:taz:
Seriously?
That's incredibly bigoted and idiotic.

[SiriusBusiness]

S9hZO-dQYww
I...
Shit...
It's so
stupid
...
...
...
:explode:

[saysmydoctor]

I wanna say it was Tatum that defined racism as a system of advantage based on race. I could be wrong.

[caveBEAR]

Ah, the old "wow, you don't agree with me. You're dumb" ploy. Well played.

Aaah, the old 'act crucified because I said you were dumb if you can't understand the underlining venom involved in the word' ploy.

Do you feel like commenting on the rest of the post? Feel free to ignore the 'you may be dumb' part if you get a break from un-bunching your panties.

[*crying stars*]

Ha. Yeah, except for the white people who still use it with hate and venom...which is why some black people (and people of any race) object to white people using the word.

Exactly this.

[Machu505]

What I learned from this thread is that some white people find the word "cracker" actually offensive.

[Matt Chylak]

@bold: how is this true at all? Where does that come from? White people use it in almost exactly the same manner black people do, with a sort of camaraderie. You're completely ignoring context. It isn't racial anymore, it's the objectors that keep tagging race onto it because they don't want it to change from its historical use, which only goes to further racial divides.

I should be held accountable, but give me a fair trial. N*gga is just a "dirty" word, like cunt or motherfucker, but it most definitely does not mean i'm racist. You can judge me for using it if you want, the same way you can judge me for using dirty words, but don't assume i'm racist because that's wholly ignorant and incorrect. I use the word among both white and black friends, and they know when I call them n*gga it's because I love them, not hate them. If you think that's wrong then you're free to judge. I think it's great.

It isn't empathic at all, it's a total front. Like other people have pointed out, it's mostly white people who will actively object the use of the word.

n*gger became a term of camaraderie amongst black people as a way of banding together in terrible conditions. as racial segregation grew from slavery into economic issues (ghettos, hoods, projects, whatever you want to call it), the word was still used for those purposes.

you have the audacity to tell me that I'M ignoring context, and then say that the word n*gger doesn't have racial implications? what world do you live in? whites have no right to a word as convoluted as n*gger without understanding it. you can't equate it with obscene words that aren't racially motivated. also, I've never called you racist. you can use a racist word without being racist...just understand that "implications" aren't enough to combat centuries of racism. if your friends are comfortable with your using the word in reference to them, that's great, but don't try doing it to your black boss someday.

the bolded is straight-up ridiculous.

[caveBEAR]

Exactly this.

If only I hadn't called him dumb, he may have actually absorbed my post. What a shame...

[Matt Chylak]

What I learned from this thread is that some white people find the word "cracker" actually offensive.

haha yeah, I can't believe that

[tawtaw]

fNmO_2sKbP4&feature=related

racist as fuck