our president=HomoPhobe?

[Mobilize]

Sorry I dont have a link or anything but I heard this on Collin Quinn. Bush is now trying to pass a national law forbiding gay marraige. How fucked up is that people? I dont see what the problem is I mean I'm not gay but I dont mind gay people. If they arnt bothering you then why discriminate against them.

[BuriedAlive]

me too. i mean its their choice to like the same sex. who cares? no need to hate them because of that. or force a law to where gay people get married.

[Alex Djaferis]

hes conservative...hes a pretty strong christian...its only natural he'd pass something like that.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Mobilize
Sorry I dont have a link or anything but I heard this on Collin Quinn. Bush is now trying to pass a national law forbiding gay marraige. How fucked up is that people? I dont see what the problem is I mean I'm not gay but I dont mind gay people. If they arnt bothering you then why discriminate against them.
go suck a cock if you are so into gays! my god, just because you shoot down gay marrige doesnt make you a homophobe, and hearing it on Tough Crowd just solidifies that it was spun like hell. I believe I saw that one..."If we lock up all of the gay people, who would do our hair" or something like that...

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
go suck a cock if you are so into gays! my god, just because you shoot down gay marrige doesnt make you a homophobe, and hearing it on Tough Crowd just solidifies that it was spun like hell. I believe I saw that one..."If we lock up all of the gay people, who would do our hair" or something like that...

Hey dumbass, lets not be a prick. Here's the deal, constitutionally it says this country has separation of church and state. Since the only viable argument against homsexuality is the religious one, Bush is either using that, which is wrong because of the separation of church and state part of the constitution, or he is a homophobe. There is absolutely no reason gay marriage shouldn't be legal. The way bush worded it made me believe he has a religious bias. He said "I believe in the sanctity of marriage". That's a reigious statement, so maybe he's not a homophobe but he's still not doing a fabulous job with seperating church and state. Either way he's wrong. There is nothing in our laws and constitution which says it is wrong for gay's to marry and the only ways you wouldn't allow it to happen is if you're religious beliefs prohibit it or if you are a homophobe.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
Hey dumbass, lets not be a prick. Here's the deal, constitutionally it says this country has separation of church and state. Since the only viable argument against homsexuality is the religious one, Bush is either using that, which is wrong because of the separation of church and state part of the constitution, or he is a homophobe. There is absolutely no reason gay marriage shouldn't be legal. The way bush worded it made me believe he has a religious bias. He said "I believe in the sanctity of marriage". That's a reigious statement, so maybe he's not a homophobe but he's still not doing a fabulous job with seperating church and state. Either way he's wrong. There is nothing in our laws and constitution which says it is wrong for gay's to marry and the only ways you wouldn't allow it to happen is if you're religious beliefs prohibit it or if you are a homophobe. So we cannot enforce our religious beliefs on someone when they are being joined in HOLY MATRIMONEY?

[Matthew]

In a country filled with over-hyped celebrity weddings, a skyrocketing divorce rate, astronomical teen pregnancy rate, and reality TV shows like "Race to the Altar" and "Married by America", I hardly think an argument for "the sanctity of marriage" holds mcuh water.

And to BrandNewRock05, "Holy Matrimony" isn't all that marriage is. It is also a legal union.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
I really dont want to argue this for the millionth time, and i know you dont. The problem with your argument is that even though we do have a seperation of church and state, marriage itself is a religous matter so i dont see a problem not wanting gay marriages if it is against your religion. Also not wanting gay marriage doesnt make you a homophobe.

marriage isn't a religious matter in america unless you want it to be...........you know this, religion doesn't grant you a marriage the state does (no one else).........

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
The state didnt come up with the idea of marriage. it was founded on religous beliefs.

that doesn't matter people evolve.....which is one of the reasons why blindly following a religion is so flawed to began with.....i'm not asking you to allow them in to your church (not that they'd want to be surrounded by such ignorance) or your home or your life....just that you have no right to control there lives or the lives of any tax paying citizen......

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
The state didnt come up with the idea of marriage. it was founded on religous beliefs.


but not christian beliefs either........

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
how was marriage not founded on a christian belief?

.........study history..........people lived together long before jesus and the bible.........hell christianity itself is based on pagan beliefs.......

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
if your not gonna follow your religion all the way through, why follow it at all? You dont just change beliefs cause times change.

thats fine....but who gives you a right to force your "beliefs" on other people, who don't want to do the same to you.........

[NOFXdesendents5]

Who fucking cares if Bush is homophobic or not? Oh sorry, I forgot liberals don't like freedom of opinion if in anyway it involves sexual-preferance or race.

Well really, I doubt he is a real homophobe. I just think that like most straight Americans, he is uncomfortable with the whole alternative lifestyle shit.

I think that homosexuals should get married though. If they love each just as much as straights, what prevents them from "tieing the knot" and making their bond official.

I just think that if a church refuses to marry a couple, they have the right to. I see Democrats complain about the seperation of the church and of the state, but that means the church is seperate and is allowed it's own rules. Let the churches do their own thing. Its nobody's place to make a third party do something they don't want to.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
didnt say they didnt live together. were they married?

romans married, greeks married, egyptians married.............

[BrandNewDream]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
So we cannot enforce our religious beliefs on someone when they are being joined in HOLY MATRIMONEY?

It's holy matrimony in a church. Heterosexual people can get their marriage licenses regardless of religion. That arguement doesn't work.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by BrandNewDream
It's holy matrimony in a church. Heterosexual people can get their marriage licenses regardless of religion. That arguement doesn't work. Then whats the point of even getting married?

[BrandNewDream]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Then whats the point of even getting married?

some people don't see the point, but others just want to make their bond official.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
my main point is this.

Did marriage not come from the Bible?

Is homosexuality a sin in the Bible?

Then how can you support a homosexual marriage?

again marriage did not come from the bible, many cultures had marriage who either came before the bible was written or had no exposure to it until it was forced apoun them.......second the bible is not the law of the land, and many people don't believe in it or what it says and this does not make them second class citizens..........no tax paying citizen should have any more or less rights then another, even if a book tell you differently...........

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Then whats the point of even getting married?

so we should just get rid of marriage as a whole right?

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
You tell me where the concept of "marriage" came from if you know it didnt come from the Bible.
Alot of things happened before the Bible was written, but the words were still preached and concepts were still passed.


just cause the bible talked about something doesn't mean it came up the concept.......

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
Also I didnt say the Bible was the law of the land, i'm just stating in the fact of marriage which is in Genesis "the begining" shows marriage was the developed when few people were on the earth. I mean if you do believe the Bible you know Adam and Eve's sons were married. It doesnt get much earlier than that.

but thats if you beleive in the bible, which a portion of america and the world, doesn't........so should these people not be allowed to marry?

[Matthew]

but today marriage is also a legal state. it is not just a religious thing. why dont you realize that?

if being married means you must adhere to christian values should we also ban atheist marriages and marriage between criminals? those people ahve disobeyed the bible but they still get married.

[Mobilize]

Im not saying I agree with being gay but I belive in equal rights.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
. And whether you admit it or not America was founded on Christian ethics so alot of these ethics still pertain till this day.

but equal rights is also somthing this country was founded on......

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082

Also you dont take someone rights away like marriage cause they've sinned. If so i would never be able to get married.

so what actually are you promoting? Your saying that "gays" can't get married because there sinners, in your eyes.............how is that different?

[Arwen0459]

you know what they say about the people that are really really big homophobes.......
They have an unconscious issue with being gay themselves...Wonder what this means about Bush.....

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Arwen0459
you know what they say about the people that are really really big homophobes.......
They have an unconscious issue with being gay themselves...Wonder what this means about Bush.....
It means that you are a douche...the president isnt a homophobe, you dumbass...he just doesnt feel that gays should be married. Homophobe means the fear of gay people... if you are against taxes does that make you a taxaphobe? No, it just means that you dont agree with taxing...so lick a nut sack, and think before you speak.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
. Homophobe means the fear of gay people...

it means ei ther that, or that you have contempt for gay people. And I honestly believe people who are homophobic do have issues with their own sexuality. If they were truly secure with themselves, gay people wouldn't bother them. THey are afraid of being openly comfortable with gay life, because they think someone will accuse them of being gay.

[BustaNutz]

It doesn't make you a homophobe if you disagree because of a religious belief, true. But if you just disagree, you ARE a homophobe.

[crayonrecords]

I agree, marriage has traditionally been a religious union. However, in modern times, marriage is a necessity for live-in partners to have communal things, credit, insurance, tax breaks, etc. If men and women can be married in the eyes of the STATE. Homosexuals should also be considered wed in the STATE. No church should be forced to offer gay marriage, but if 2 homosexuals want to get married, they should be allowed to go to a courthouse and get a marriage liscense. Is there any constitutional way that such a thing could be outlawed? Any way you go, it falls on the lawmakers' personnal morals and beliefs, and that is an infringement upon the mandatory seperation of church and state institutions.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by crayonrecords
I agree, marriage has traditionally been a religious union. However, in modern times, marriage is a necessity for live-in partners to have communal things, credit, insurance, tax breaks, etc. If men and women can be married in the eyes of the STATE. Homosexuals should also be considered wed in the STATE. No church should be forced to offer gay marriage, but if 2 homosexuals want to get married, they should be allowed to go to a courthouse and get a marriage liscense. Is there any constitutional way that such a thing could be outlawed? Any way you go, it falls on the lawmakers' personnal morals and beliefs, and that is an infringement upon the mandatory seperation of church and state institutions.

Exactly!

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
It doesn't make you a homophobe if you disagree because of a religious belief, true. But if you just disagree, you ARE a homophobe. No, it doesent have to solely be religious reasons, which mine are just to let you know. Again I use the tax example. I think that the way we are taxed is wrong, nothing to do with religion. I dont agree with taxes, I am not afraid of them, and I dont dislike them because of my religious beliefs, but I am not a taxaphobe. "phobe" means fear. Homophobe is the fear of gays...simple as that. Disliking gays doesnt mean you are a homophobe...you just disagree with them. I am not a liberalaphobe, I just disagree with them.

[deathbypunk]

I really think that our president is a homophobe.. I have a good friend who is gay and I have no problem with him since he deserves the same respect as everyone does who is not gay. I think it's all stupidity who is a homophobe.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by deathbypunk
I really think that our president is a homophobe.. I have a good friend who is gay and I have no problem with him since he deserves the same respect as everyone does who is not gay. I think it's all stupidity who is a homophobe. OK, tard boy, the president is not a homophobe...he just disaproves of gay marriage. I disaprove the speed limit being as low as it is in Oregon, am I a low-speed-aphobe? No, I am not afraid of low speeds. Again, I will break it down for you. Homo=gay. Phobia=fear of. Fear of gays. Its like arachnaphobia *sp, the fear of spiders. Not the dissaproval of spiders. So its not "stupidity" to be a homophobe. Its just the way they are. Its like a fear of hights. But we are getting off subject. Bush isnt afraid of gays. He just dissaproves of them. Its not homophobia, its having morals. Do all of a sudden morals make you stupid?

[bossydacow]

having stupid morals, such as disapproving of gays, makes you stupid.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
. Do all of a sudden morals make you stupid?

yes, when your morals are destructive, ignorant and selfish................

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
It says it wrong in the BIBLE!!! If you're going to follow the Bible how could you ever call this a stupid moral?

I refuse to follow the Bible when it degrades human beings.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
If you're gonna pick and choose what to follow in the Bible that's fine, but saying because someone follows the Bibles moral's fully that they're stupid. Makes you more of a hypocrite than anything.

I don't believe that there is a religous document that exists that should be followed word for word. Times change, and as we change with them, we grow and understand ourselves and our nature better. I don't believe the Bible should be taken literally...I think its dangerous to do so, as well as, (not to offend you) stupid. The 9/11 hijackers took their religion in that context, and look what happened. And they pray to the same God as us.
The Bible is too often violent, sexist, and ignorant. I don't believe or preach to a God that calls that His Word. God is peaceful...not vengeful. Jesus taught us that. And I don't believe homosexuality to be unnatural, and I think homosexuals are just as human as I am, and just as precious in God's eyes as you and I are are. And its not my place, or the governments place to tell them that they can't offically love someone in the context of marriage. There sexual behavior is just as wrong as a man and a woman using a condom or birth control pills for sex.
So tell me how I'm a hyprocrit.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
I think if i'm going to follow something and believe in, it's not my place to pick and choose what's right and wrong because it says what is right and wrong. I'm not sure what all the Koran (spelling) is all about, but i know the 9/11 highjackers were perverce in their beliefs. Thats much diffrent then following the Bible through with all of your heart. You tell me what in the Bible is so dangerous to follow?

The Bible is about picking and choosing really. Some of the things said in the Hebrew scriptures are inconsistent with Jesus' teachings in the Christian Scriptures. My problem with a lot of Christian Fundamentalists is that they seem to pick and choose what most convenient for them to believe, and mostly what the things they pick are very cruel and ignorant things to believe in. Such as the perception of homosexuality, "an eye for an eye", and than all this "you will go to hell" bull shit. Believing in all of that is going to destroy a person. Its not healthy. There have been parts of the Bible that had been forged. Yes, the book was divinely inspired, but I don't necessarily trust the men who were inspired.
Do you actually believe that God allowed all of those horrible things to happen to Job, just to test his love? Do you think God toys with people that way? Thats sick. And if people take that to heart, than they will be living in fear.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
Makes you more of a hypocrite than anything.

doesn't your avatar make you kind of a hypocrite...........

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
because i have a pretty girl? i dont think it does, i'm not sitting here lusting after it.

so then you have it just to be sexist right?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
so then you have it just to be sexist right?
But its okay for bossy to oogle over Orlando, whom she is obviously obsessed with...

[x40ozx]

Originally posted by Mobilize
Sorry I dont have a link or anything but I heard this on Collin Quinn. Bush is now trying to pass a national law forbiding gay marraige. How fucked up is that people? I dont see what the problem is I mean I'm not gay but I dont mind gay people. If they arnt bothering you then why discriminate against them.

I agree!!! Me being part gay myself, I think it is EXTREMELY fucked up that he's trying to do that! I don't care if it has anything to do with his religious beliefs or not! Just because you believe in one thing, doesn't mean that everyone else has to just because your the president! Especially coming from a mini George Bush Sr. I mean, he has no idea what he's talking about 1/2 the time anyway! Ever notice how everything he "stands for" is exactly the same as his father when he was in office? I hate how fucked up this countries gotten in the past 2 years!

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082
It's alright to find girls attractive, you know.

but doesn't that mean your envious of what another man has?

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
Let me help you get to what you're trying to get too also. I called what Bossy said hypocritical because she says someone elses morals (that came from the Bible) are stupid just because she doesnt believe that part in the Bible. That's hypocritical, she stands up for her morals that come from the Bible and then bashes another.

Now my avatar has nothing hypocritical too it. I didnt claim anything to contradict myself, so i was a little confused how that makes me a hypocrite?

my morals don't come from the Bible. They come from myself. I am pro choice, pro gay marraige, okay with premarital sex, divorce, women as priests...I don't think the Bible would agree with those things.
I'm not a by-the-book catholic either. I just get defensive when people bad mouth it because so many people I know are devout catholics, and their religion means everything to them.

I think fundamentalism within religion, especially the 3 most dominate ones: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, is dangerous. The origins of those religions and their ideas of how things should be run in this world happened too long ago to be taken word for word in this modern world. My morals are not destructive (unless you think striving to love everyone, ,or at least recognize their humanity, is destructive). A Nazis morals are...now I'm in no way comparing your morals to a Nazis, but would it be wrong for me to bash a Nazi's morals, which are dangerous, because I don't like my morals to be bashed?

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
But its okay for bossy to oogle over Orlando, whom she is obviously obsessed with...


Orlando isn't holding his cock in his hands.

[bossydacow]

then why are so many hate crimes against gays the product of angry Christians? Signs at protests that say, "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve"...
And how come last year a preacher came to my town, protesting against the local public school sending a kid home for wearing a "straight pride" shirt? Why did the guy tell the reporters that everyone in my town is going to burn like Sodom and Gomorrah (sp?)...why are the links on the internet counting how many days its been since God condemed Matthew Shepard to burn in hell? Christianity is supposed to be about love, but these pyschotic interpretations of the Bible change it to hate.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
It's when people pervert the religion. For example a lot of KKK members will tell you they are Christian, but how are there actions Christian? It's not.

I think fundamental/literal interpretations, especially in the world we live in today, pervert Christianity. The real teaching of Christ was to love one another. And we don't do that by judging cruelly other peoples lives. Let God deal with people. Live your own life. Let gay couples get married. Be good to people. Thats it. Thats all we have to do. I don't know why its so damn hard to understand (I'm not referring to you --- just people in general).

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by cal1082

Now my avatar has nothing hypocritical too it.


But isn't it promoting sexual ideas about another mans wife?

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
I'll give you a hint, alot of people who say they're Christians dont practice what it says in the Bible. Where does it say to hate gays? Does it? No, so those people are obviously not following what the Bible says.

Christianity is not what people believe, it's what the Bible tells.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.


gee, I wonder what kind of crazy ideas about how to deal with gay people in our society can result from this verse...

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
i know people pervert it, Jesus and God teaches us to love one another, so obviously if you're a Christian you shouldnt kill them.

I know that. But my point is that the only type of Christian who would actually take that to heart, and who has in the past, is a fundamentalist Christian. Fundamentalist Christianity is dangerous. I'm not saying that if you are one, you are automatically going to commit acts of violence, but I think there is a better chance of a fundamentalist Christian behaving in that way, than a regular old Christian. And I think our religion as a whole, is better off gaining more followers, by not being a fundamentalist.

[bossydacow]

I understand that. But other people don't. And then badness ensues...
I don't mean to insult you.

but I have to go to the grocery store now, so bye.

[x40ozx]

Actually, it does say that homosexuality is a sin [in the bible] I wouldn't know this if it wasn't for my mom (because I don't believe in the bible) and her constant arguing against homosexuality. She and I argue about it all the time because she hates gay people, and that's kind of offensive to me because I'm half gay soooo...

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
When you said to be against homosexuality is stupid you're taking for granted that, that belief promotes hate. You even said thats why you dont follow it because.



I'm just saying it doesnt promote hate just because you dont believe homosexuality is right. You're assuming that just because you think homosexuality is wrong, you hate them. And that's simply not true and not what the Bible teaches.


the first part of your post I don't understand.

second part: I didn't even bring up the bible. I just said that being anti-homosexuality is a stupid moral to have. People should mind their own business, and let the ones pure of sin cast the first stone...

and I never said that if you think homosexuality is wrong, you must hate gays too. But I do think a lot of people who disagree with being gay, also hate gay people.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
the first part of your post I don't understand.

second part: I didn't even bring up the bible. I just said that being anti-homosexuality is a stupid moral to have. People should mind their own business, and let the ones pure of sin cast the first stone...

and I never said that if you think homosexuality is wrong, you must hate gays too. But I do think a lot of people who disagree with being gay, also hate gay people.
You said something like "People with stupid morals are stupid" or something like that...not quite sure, but basically, if you disagree with homosexuality, you are stupid. Now, we are all capable of making our own opinions, correct? And just because one thinks differently from you doesnt make them stupid. Not being for gays isnt a stupid moral. It is just as absurd as saying your "Love everyone, no war" moral is stupid. And then you say stupid morals make a stupid person...so automatically, every person who is not for gays is stupid? It doesnt make much sense to me how you can pull that one.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by x40ozx
Actually, it does say that homosexuality is a sin [in the bible] I wouldn't know this if it wasn't for my mom (because I don't believe in the bible) and her constant arguing against homosexuality. She and I argue about it all the time because she hates gay people, and that's kind of offensive to me because I'm half gay soooo...
How are you half gay? Its not like being Italian or black or something.

[DonnieDarko]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
You said something like "People with stupid morals are stupid" or something like that...not quite sure, but basically, if you disagree with homosexuality, you are stupid. Now, we are all capable of making our own opinions, correct? And just because one thinks differently from you doesnt make them stupid. Not being for gays isnt a stupid moral. It is just as absurd as saying your "Love everyone, no war" moral is stupid. And then you say stupid morals make a stupid person...so automatically, every person who is not for gays is stupid? It doesnt make much sense to me how you can pull that one.

What she means is why have a moral of being against same sex marriges? Whats the point, it's not your life you need not worry about it, they don't want to wed in a church so you should have no problem with it, that is if you aren't promoting hate...

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by DonnieDarko
What she means is why have a moral of being against same sex marriges? Whats the point, it's not your life you need not worry about it, they don't want to wed in a church so you should have no problem with it, that is if you aren't promoting hate...

Thank you. That is exactly what I meant.

and half gay means they are bisexual, brandnew.

[chubb9]

and half gay means they are bisexual

There's no such thing as bisexual in my book. You bang a guy in the ass, your gay. Hands down.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
Thank you. That is exactly what I meant.

and half gay means they are bisexual, brandnew.
Half gay doesnt mean bisexual. Bisexual is confusion in my mind, perhaps a gay man who doesnt want to face reality...but thats just me...even if there were such a thing as bisexuality, that doesnt mean half gay...you still have gay tendancies, making you a full blown homosexual....

And your logic makes no sense. Stupid morals make a stupid person...? Who is to decide whats a stupid moral. I disagree with much of what you say and think that your morals are fairly retarded and hypocritical....but I dont think you are a stupid individual. You need to rethink that, because it makes no sense.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05


And your logic makes no sense. Stupid morals make a stupid person...? Who is to decide whats a stupid moral. I disagree with much of what you say and think that your morals are fairly retarded and hypocritical....but I dont think you are a stupid individual. You need to rethink that, because it makes no sense.

Thinking someone is stupid is an opinion. My opinion is that if your morals are stupid, than you are stupid because you are living your life according to stupid morals. Its just an opinion...
I think disagreeing with homosexuality, as if you think you know exactly how a person feels, and to go as far as to say they shouldn't be able to get married, is stupid.

Its one thing to say someone is stupid or their morals are stupid and leave at that. Thats no problem, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and to be able to express it. But to go as far to try to support laws that basically decide for a person whether or not their love is real, is ludicrous, and it makes you a pretty fucking stupid person. Find something better do with your time, other than make someone else's life more difficult. Thats all I'm saying.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
If you put it in those terms i think it's stupid, and ignorant to pick and choose at your own discretion which morals you want to follow in the Bible when it says to follow them all. How can someone possibly stand up for their morals that come from the Bible when you go and trash someone elses morals that come from the same book. You're basically arguing against a book you're suppose to stand for.

Thats like someone saying i have stupid morals because i dont believe lying is right. What if they think it's alright to lie? Does that mean my morals are stupid?

Get off the Bible. I said in another post my morals don't come from the Bible. And all the Catholics I stand up for, don't try to tell gays how to live their life either.



Lying and barring two people who love each other from marrying each other are two entirely different things.

[bossydacow]

yeah, in that case, its okay.


I don't really understand why you're dragging this out...

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
Thinking someone is stupid is an opinion. My opinion is that if your morals are stupid, than you are stupid because you are living your life according to stupid morals. Its just an opinion...
I think disagreeing with homosexuality, as if you think you know exactly how a person feels, and to go as far as to say they shouldn't be able to get married, is stupid.

Its one thing to say someone is stupid or their morals are stupid and leave at that. Thats no problem, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and to be able to express it. But to go as far to try to support laws that basically decide for a person whether or not their love is real, is ludicrous, and it makes you a pretty fucking stupid person. Find something better do with your time, other than make someone else's life more difficult. Thats all I'm saying.
your ignorance is amazing. you cannot accept people not agreeing with you, so they are stupid. its wrong. at least I accept gays and gay supporters as human beings with valid opinions, although I do not condone it. Your ignorance is so amazingly outrageous that...well, you are stupid.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
your ignorance is amazing. you cannot accept people not agreeing with you, so they are stupid. its wrong. at least I accept gays and gay supporters as human beings with valid opinions, although I do not condone it. Your ignorance is so amazingly outrageous that...well, you are stupid.

you are entitled to your opinion. But if you really thought that gays had a valid opinion AND accepted their humanity, you'd have a different opinion on whether or not they should be allowed to marry.

and I stand by my feeling that on THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, some one is stupid for not supporting gay marriage. Its STUPID to try and decide for other people how they feel and its STUPID to try to evaluate someone else's feelings for them. Its none of anyone else's business. Period.

[bossydacow]

I think the point your making has been discussed earlier on in this thread, Cal.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
And it's still the truth. If you open up marriage to homosexuals, you'll also have to for polygamist. I also dont see why brothers and sisters cant marry too. As long as her tubes are tied or he's been fixed they should be able to. Cause polygamist and people who marry inside their family cant control who they love.

I'd imagine that polygamy would fuck up the legal system.


and brothers and sisters don't need the legal benefits of marriage, because they are already immediate family.

if there were no legal benefits of marriage, we wouldn't need to be married by law.

[bossydacow]

If I found both to be as harmless as I see gay marriage to be, then sure. But I'll say this: of what little I know about polygamy and incestual marriage, both are too difficult legally and healthwise to allow them to be legal. But that isn't a solid opinion of it...I'd have to learn more.

Polygamy, with all the dispensing of marriage rights, and dealing with the children and inheritance, and ect ect ect, as well as how I've heard that women who are the wives of polygamist don't nessecarily voluntarily marry the man, it could be emotionally damaging.

With Incest, as I said before, there is no need for benefits of marriage because of already being immediate family. And as for having the woman's tubes tied...do you honestly think the woman will agree to that? Is that even constitutional to force that upon her, or force the guy to get fixed?

Another reason why I don't support it is because mass amounts of incestual people or polygamists aren't coming out and saying they want it legalized. Its not as an important issue as gay marriage.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by cal1082
On your philosophy it wouldnt be hurting anyone if they got married, and it's no of our buisness so it should happen. The reason why you dont see alot of polygamist coming out saying they want it legalized is because there's not that as many polygamist's.

Even the Supreme Court Justice Scalia when they turned over the sodomy law here in texas said in her dissent that if you open gay marriages you cant legally stop polygamist marriages.


anything that is not hurting society and is not making the legal process more difficult, is okay with me for being legally. Whether polygamy meets those guidelines...I'm not entirely sure. Right now, I don't think so.

[rainbowmafia21]

"just because you shoot down gay marrige doesnt make you a homophobe" - brandnewrock

What?!? Please explain???

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by rainbowmafia21
"just because you shoot down gay marrige doesnt make you a homophobe" - brandnewrock

What?!? Please explain???
Homophobia...the fear of gay people...not the disagreement with gay peoples morals. phobia means fear people. Just because I disagree with the way taxing goes today doesnt make me a taxaphobe, I do not fear taxes, I just disagree with them....therefore, shooting down gay marriage doesnt mean you are a homophobe...

[bossydacow]

In our society, the term "homophobia", has become somewhat of an idiom. If you don't agree with gay lifestyle, you are still a homophobe. "homophobia" is just a general term to describe all people who disagree with the lifestyle.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Homophobia...the fear of gay people...not the disagreement with gay peoples morals. phobia means fear people. Just because I disagree with the way taxing goes today doesnt make me a taxaphobe, I do not fear taxes, I just disagree with them....therefore, shooting down gay marriage doesnt mean you are a homophobe...

Ok fine, how about this. You either oppose homosexuality because of religious beliefs, or because you are a bigot. Try and use your sematics to get out of that one.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
Ok fine, how about this. You either oppose homosexuality because of religious beliefs, or because you are a bigot. Try and use your sematics to get out of that one. First off, my beliefs are for relgious reasons, so by your definition, automatically disqualifying me as a bigot.

Now, say you are an athiest. OK, but you arent sexually promiscious (sp). So you plan on saving yourself for the right person. Is it stupid because its not for religious reasons?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
In our society, the term "homophobia", has become somewhat of an idiom. If you don't agree with gay lifestyle, you are still a homophobe. "homophobia" is just a general term to describe all people who disagree with the lifestyle.
Find me a definition that says something along the lines of "homophobia: simple disagreement with gays" I mean you cannot make up your own definitions...they just re-released webster's so maybe you'll have some luck...

[chubb9]

In our society, the term "homophobia", has become somewhat of an idiom. If you don't agree with gay lifestyle, you are still a homophobe. "homophobia" is just a general term to describe all people who disagree with the lifestyle.

Thats the equivilent to me being able to say your gay because you support the lifestyle.

I don't like chinese food, does that make me racist towards chinese people? No. It means i don't like chinese food. There is a difference between hating the person and hating the act. I strongly dissagree with the lifestyle, but i can tollerate a homosexual. I know a couple gays and we get along fine.

I HATE smoking, but as long as people don't do it around me i dont care. Same thing goes for gays.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
First off, my beliefs are for relgious reasons, so by your definition, automatically disqualifying me as a bigot.

Now, say you are an athiest. OK, but you arent sexually promiscious (sp). So you plan on saving yourself for the right person. Is it stupid because its not for religious reasons?

Ok, time to put this to rest right now. You claim to be smarter than I am, yet you can't even string together an argument which is even remotely relevant. If you dislike gay people for their lifestyle, that is a prejudice. Plain and simple. If you don't agree with the lifestyle, you don't think it's natural, if you harbor any ill-will towards homosexuals whatsoever, that is a prejudice. I don't care if you just don't like the lifestyle, that is a prejudice, it's black and white. Maybe saying you are a bigot due to one prejudice is a little far, typically I think of a bigot as being someone with many prejudices, but still, you either disagree for religous purposes or are prejudiced (and possibly a bigot). No arguing. It's that simple.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
Ok, time to put this to rest right now. You claim to be smarter than I am, yet you can't even string together an argument which is even remotely relevant. If you dislike gay people for their lifestyle, that is a prejudice. Plain and simple. If you don't agree with the lifestyle, you don't think it's natural, if you harbor any ill-will towards homosexuals whatsoever, that is a prejudice. I don't care if you just don't like the lifestyle, that is a prejudice, it's black and white. Maybe saying you are a bigot due to one prejudice is a little far, typically I think of a bigot as being someone with many prejudices, but still, you either disagree for religous purposes or are prejudiced (and possibly a bigot). No arguing. It's that simple.
OK, I never claimed to be smarter than you, so cut the shit... and second, I dont hate gay people, but I still disagree with them. Am I a homohobe? That really makes no sense. And does it have to be for a religious reason? Maybe not just personal morals? Such as the example I gave earlier, and Athiest saving herself for Mr. Right is stupid because its not for religious reasons? No. But that aside, I think that the majority of us on here disagree with gays and their lifestyle for religious reasons, and I doubt that any of us actually hate gays, maybe not Chubb, but the majority.

[BustaNutz]

Ok, if you dislike a group for no reason, and there is no reason to dislike or disagree with homosexuality (barring religious beliefs) you're prejudiced. It's that simple, you either accept them or not, and if you don't accept them, you're prejudice. And once again BrandNewRock, that had absolutely nothing to do with the argument. If you dislike homsexuals because of personal morals, your morals are prejudiced. Period.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
Ok, if you dislike a group for no reason, and there is no reason to dislike or disagree with homosexuality (barring religious beliefs) you're prejudiced. It's that simple, you either accept them or not, and if you don't accept them, you're prejudice. And once again BrandNewRock, that had absolutely nothing to do with the argument. If you dislike homsexuals because of personal morals, your morals are prejudiced. Period.
I disagree with the Jewish religion...but am I a jew hater? No. I disagree with liberals. Am I a liberal hater? No. I disagree with my parents. Do I hate them? No. Disagreement doesnt equal hate. Homophobia entails fear of or (and I will even stretch the definition for you), hatred for. Nor is it prejudice. Prejudice is pre-judging, judging somebody before you meet them. Now, would it be prejudice if I said that Tom is a stupid person because he is gay? Yes. But is it prejudice if I say that I disagree with homosexuality and the morality of it on a whole? No. Because I have judged gays, I have made my own opinion. Religion or not, its not prejudice...Period.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
I disagree with the Jewish religion...but am I a jew hater? No. I disagree with liberals. Am I a liberal hater? No. I disagree with my parents. Do I hate them? No. Disagreement doesnt equal hate. Homophobia entails fear of or (and I will even stretch the definition for you), hatred for. Nor is it prejudice. Prejudice is pre-judging, judging somebody before you meet them. Now, would it be prejudice if I said that Tom is a stupid person because he is gay? Yes. But is it prejudice if I say that I disagree with homosexuality and the morality of it on a whole? No. Because I have judged gays, I have made my own opinion. Religion or not, its not prejudice...Period.

We're not talking about homophobia anymore. We're talking about prejudices. So stop saying homophobe, that part is over. And while we're on it, God is God, I doubt he cares how you pray to him so long as you're a good person and live a good life. So disagreeing with a religion is dumb. In fact Jesus said to accept and appreciate all religions (and people). Wait a minute, if Jesus said to love all people, doesn't that mean you should be accepting of homosexuals?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
We're not talking about homophobia anymore. We're talking about prejudices. So stop saying homophobe, that part is over. And while we're on it, God is God, I doubt he cares how you pray to him so long as you're a good person and live a good life. So disagreeing with a religion is dumb. In fact Jesus said to accept and appreciate all religions (and people). Wait a minute, if Jesus said to love all people, doesn't that mean you should be accepting of homosexuals?
I do accept all people of all creeds, races, religions. I dont have to agree with them however. You cannot agree with everything people say, otherwise you would stand for nothing...you must disagree with people, and its not prejudice to disagree...

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
I do accept all people of all creeds, races, religions. I dont have to agree with them however. You cannot agree with everything people say, otherwise you would stand for nothing...you must disagree with people, and its not prejudice to disagree...

Fair enough, as long as you accept you don't have to agree. It's when you don't accept that you are prejudiced.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
Fair enough, as long as you accept you don't have to agree. It's when you don't accept that you are prejudiced.
what i was saying from the get go...