In the words of Buried Alive

[Rufio217]

- everything has been done before. you just gotta make it better.
- It's hard to write when everything is cliche now...it's bullshit

^---> proving once again, we don't need new inventions on ways of writing, we just need improvements on the old stuff...stick to the basics, just, as emeril would say, Kick it up a notch...WHO cares if you write about liched shit it's worked this long it will still work, everyone complains about it, but i don't see it slowing them down when they go to buy their cd's, most of which are cd's of band the secretly love even though they say they are horrible...

[GREENatarisDAY]

when it comes to writing it dosent exactly matter if its emo or whatever. Its what you feel and thats what music is about, music isnt only about innovation. Dont change your style just because its being over done. The things we all write in these songs are what we feel about certain topics such as love/politics/death/life or whatever. And the shit about love songs being overdone.....THEY HAVE BEEN AROUND FOREVER. there is absolutley nothing you can do to make it go away. Innovation usually lies and is necessary in the sound of the music...not the lyrics. Have a good day :)

[BuriedAlive]

why thank you rufio. im glad you agree with me. and that people shouldnt just say your songs cliche so it sucks. who cares? read the damn song. if you dont like it tell me why. if you do then cool.

[ISuckYoungBlood]

Originally posted by Rufio217
- everything has been done before. you just gotta make it better.
- It's hard to write when everything is cliche now...it's bullshit

^---> proving once again, we don't need new inventions on ways of writing, we just need improvements on the old stuff...stick to the basics, just, as emeril would say, Kick it up a notch...WHO cares if you write about liched shit it's worked this long it will still work, everyone complains about it, but i don't see it slowing them down when they go to buy their cd's, most of which are cd's of band the secretly love even though they say they are horrible...


Your wrong. There is always room for invetion. You just have no room for imagination. I mean did you think anyone thought about a band like Nirvana like 10 years before they came about. Do you think anyone thought about different styles. I myself had thought on this subject for a few minutes recently and I have convinced myself new music wil come out that we have never dreamed about. Also, in writing styles its tottaly endless. I don't think thier has to be any cliches' in your lyrical path. If you really follow your heart and mind you'll get originality because not one persone on the world has your heart or mind.

[BuriedAlive]

so, no matter what some out someone still says it comes out cliche.

maybe if i write about an elephant, then maybe it will be all orginal. dude the lyrics we write are orignal, they have our influences in them, which is why they are considered cliche.

[ISuckYoungBlood]

Actually I wrote a song about an elephant back in 3rd grade I swear no joke.

And no that's not what I am saying, every song isn't a cliche but seriously some of the lines people use in thier songs would they ever think of by themselves? I mean some of the lines people use in these songs they are posting are so fake it's crazy. I mean they just wrote it to sound professional and mature, I am not gonig to lie I write songs like that all the time and at first I'm like whoah this is heavy stuff, but after a few days I realize what I wrote was tottaly fake and forced to sound mature and have good lyrics. No one is tottaly open to imagination on this board that I have seen, many people have produced good stuff but they always have those few lines that just sound like every other type of band we have heard. Sometimes its impossible to avoid one cliche in your song but many of these songs are trying to hard. Thats jsut my opinion.

[wewin]

- everything has been done before. you just gotta make it better.
- It's hard to write when everything is cliche now...it's bullshit

^---> proving once again, we don't need new inventions on ways of writing, we just need improvements on the old stuff...stick to the basics, just, as emeril would say, Kick it up a notch...WHO cares if you write about liched shit it's worked this long it will still work, everyone complains about it, but i don't see it slowing them down when they go to buy their cd's, most of which are cd's of band the secretly love even though they say they are horrible...

rufiowhateverthehellyourfuckingnumb eris, you're a tool.

As if ONE person saying it "proves" something?

Who cares about if you write about cliched stuff? artists care. I care. you should care too.

"it will still work". yeah, of course it'll still work. the masses go for what they know they already like. if you write the same thing over and over, yeah, they'll like it. the populace follows the popular trends, and if you write in a trendy style, then people will like you. is that what you want?

you want to write stuff that's new and fresh and interesting, or do you want to write the same stories and the same stupid romances and the same stupid depression over and over and over and over again?

i buy a lot of cds, rufioimitator#217. i like a lot of bands, and i'm frequently discouraged in my search for new music because i care about originality, musicianship, and interesting topics. i hesitated a great deal before buying the new thrice cd because the lyrical topics (i read the lyrics online) didn't seem to break new ground. they didn't hit me with the poetry and the style that the illusion of safety did. i heard all that's left and i felt sad. that's a pretty bland song title, it doesn't seem that much thought went into it. i heard that they became a bit poppier, less metally, less hard. finally, i decided to go for it. i didn't want to download the songs because i wanted to hear the whole album the way it was meant to be heard, all the songs in a row, all the songs an experience. I heard about the insert thingies and wanted to see what dustin had to say, seeing as how i think he's a great new songwriter.

i was not disappointed. i don't think it's the best thing ever, but i really really like the artist in the ambulance. they didn't stick to the loud/quiet metal/pop-punk formula that they had on the previous two records. they did something new. they didn't make any songs that were copies of their old songs. they hadn't created something completely original (lyrically or stylistically), but they created something with enough unique flair that i felt comfortable buying the album and supporting the band. they did something fresh and interesting. some of the riffs and lyrics and basslines i think are just amazing. i think that the screaming vocals are realyl fucking hard and the singing is (if a bit simplistic) dead-on, rock solid, with none of the quavering emo poppunk style that i hate so much. it's a good album, and it was good because they did something different than what they've done before.

think about the song paper tigers by Thrice. Maybe you've heard it, maybe not. here is a passage from the lyrics. I'd even call these lyrics "deep", because you can find more than one meaning in them. here's my meaning.

"they preach to the choir, always in the permanent daylight
they toss paper tigers from their perfect porcelain skylines, shatterproof spires
listen for the sound, as it all comes crashing down"

my interpretation: "they preach to the choir" "they" (in this case, unoriginal artists and trendwhores) preach to the choir, meaning that they tell their followers, admirers, and subordinates the things that they already believe. they tell them the same thing and order them to remain the same.
"they toss paper tigers from their perfect porcelain skylines, shatterproof spires" they appear to be a threat, a force to be reckoned with, but it is a false front (a paper tiger). they sit atop seemingly perfect and everlasting structures (the pedestal of fame), but, like porcelain, that fame is delicate (shatterproof spires is sarcasn).
"listen for the sound as it all comes crashing down" - obivously, this trend, these shitty but still popular songwriters can't last forever. they fall.

the end. there's the meaning i found in this creative and poetic song.

as creators and artists, however small and insignificant we may be, we are a minority: most people do not write songs or even aspire to. artists at their bestcan change the way people feel about life, make even the dull seem new and interesting. they can reveal new truths and talk about new things and inspire more artists. they can create things that are truly NEW, but that takes work. artists at their worst aren't artists at all; they are factory workers. they pick the brand name, whether it's love, girls, suicide, whatever, and they slap together the parts, the chorus, the "dark" imagery, the overrused knives-in-the-back, the violence, the breakdowns, mosh parts, jump parts, singalongs. they crank out a product, not a work of art.

i think that you have given up on trying to write about something new. you have given up on creating your own style. you even lack originality in your username, something that may not matter to others, but it matters to me. you have a number in your name. you are the 217th rufio. you aren't new, you aren't creative. you're a songwriting follower, and you have a bad leader.

yeah, love has been around forever. so why write anything more about it? if you MUST write about something old, write about it in a new way. be a leader, not a follower.

ISuckYoungBlood, thank god for you. read some of my stuff. i value your opinion already.

[ISuckYoungBlood]

Wow that was good wewin. Yes I do feel like these people posting their lyrics have completely given up on finding new ideas and ways to constuct thier work. I think its just lazy. People know that they can make a great product and be lazy and just write what most people already know. Another possibility is that they are affraid to put something new together and then get tottal critisism for it being stupid immature etc. They know if they make the product everyone else is making nothing to bad can happen so why not just stick with it. But the genious's and the people that last forever don't care about other people and what they think, they construct and construct on one idea until it becomes an invention you could never imagine. The difference between legends and you people posting, is they didn't have a leader they are your leaders. Your problem is you don't mind being a whore to them and just re-producing their music.

[xAlexisonfirex]

WEWIN just posted the best post ever.

oh and wewin, i hate everything i've written and posted on this site. save a few lines. maybe a song, i don't remember i havn't even read them.

[wewin]

so? you said that you wanna be in an indiepop group now. you just seem like a trendwhore to me.

[proeuthanasia]

Originally posted by wewin
- everything has been done before. you just gotta make it better.
- It's hard to write when everything is cliche now...it's bullshit

^---> proving once again, we don't need new inventions on ways of writing, we just need improvements on the old stuff...stick to the basics, just, as emeril would say, Kick it up a notch...WHO cares if you write about liched shit it's worked this long it will still work, everyone complains about it, but i don't see it slowing them down when they go to buy their cd's, most of which are cd's of band the secretly love even though they say they are horrible...

rufiowhateverthehellyourfuckingnumb eris, you're a tool.

As if ONE person saying it "proves" something?

Who cares about if you write about cliched stuff? artists care. I care. you should care too.

"it will still work". yeah, of course it'll still work. the masses go for what they know they already like. if you write the same thing over and over, yeah, they'll like it. the populace follows the popular trends, and if you write in a trendy style, then people will like you. is that what you want?

you want to write stuff that's new and fresh and interesting, or do you want to write the same stories and the same stupid romances and the same stupid depression over and over and over and over again?

i buy a lot of cds, rufioimitator#217. i like a lot of bands, and i'm frequently discouraged in my search for new music because i care about originality, musicianship, and interesting topics. i hesitated a great deal before buying the new thrice cd because the lyrical topics (i read the lyrics online) didn't seem to break new ground. they didn't hit me with the poetry and the style that the illusion of safety did. i heard all that's left and i felt sad. that's a pretty bland song title, it doesn't seem that much thought went into it. i heard that they became a bit poppier, less metally, less hard. finally, i decided to go for it. i didn't want to download the songs because i wanted to hear the whole album the way it was meant to be heard, all the songs in a row, all the songs an experience. I heard about the insert thingies and wanted to see what dustin had to say, seeing as how i think he's a great new songwriter.

i was not disappointed. i don't think it's the best thing ever, but i really really like the artist in the ambulance. they didn't stick to the loud/quiet metal/pop-punk formula that they had on the previous two records. they did something new. they didn't make any songs that were copies of their old songs. they hadn't created something completely original (lyrically or stylistically), but they created something with enough unique flair that i felt comfortable buying the album and supporting the band. they did something fresh and interesting. some of the riffs and lyrics and basslines i think are just amazing. i think that the screaming vocals are realyl fucking hard and the singing is (if a bit simplistic) dead-on, rock solid, with none of the quavering emo poppunk style that i hate so much. it's a good album, and it was good because they did something different than what they've done before.

think about the song paper tigers by Thrice. Maybe you've heard it, maybe not. here is a passage from the lyrics. I'd even call these lyrics "deep", because you can find more than one meaning in them. here's my meaning.

"they preach to the choir, always in the permanent daylight
they toss paper tigers from their perfect porcelain skylines, shatterproof spires
listen for the sound, as it all comes crashing down"

my interpretation: "they preach to the choir" "they" (in this case, unoriginal artists and trendwhores) preach to the choir, meaning that they tell their followers, admirers, and subordinates the things that they already believe. they tell them the same thing and order them to remain the same.
"they toss paper tigers from their perfect porcelain skylines, shatterproof spires" they appear to be a threat, a force to be reckoned with, but it is a false front (a paper tiger). they sit atop seemingly perfect and everlasting structures (the pedestal of fame), but, like porcelain, that fame is delicate (shatterproof spires is sarcasn).
"listen for the sound as it all comes crashing down" - obivously, this trend, these shitty but still popular songwriters can't last forever. they fall.

the end. there's the meaning i found in this creative and poetic song.

as creators and artists, however small and insignificant we may be, we are a minority: most people do not write songs or even aspire to. artists at their bestcan change the way people feel about life, make even the dull seem new and interesting. they can reveal new truths and talk about new things and inspire more artists. they can create things that are truly NEW, but that takes work. artists at their worst aren't artists at all; they are factory workers. they pick the brand name, whether it's love, girls, suicide, whatever, and they slap together the parts, the chorus, the "dark" imagery, the overrused knives-in-the-back, the violence, the breakdowns, mosh parts, jump parts, singalongs. they crank out a product, not a work of art.

i think that you have given up on trying to write about something new. you have given up on creating your own style. you even lack originality in your username, something that may not matter to others, but it matters to me. you have a number in your name. you are the 217th rufio. you aren't new, you aren't creative. you're a songwriting follower, and you have a bad leader.

yeah, love has been around forever. so why write anything more about it? if you MUST write about something old, write about it in a new way. be a leader, not a follower.

ISuckYoungBlood, thank god for you. read some of my stuff. i value your opinion already.



wewin, due to previous posts of yours, i thought you pretty shallow and unintelligent. i now realize how completely wrong i was. this post is in itself a work of art because it is written beautifully and, more importantly, expresses how you feel. it also expresses how i feel, and for that, i am indebted to you. thank you for posting this. i have a new respect for you. there is too great a lack of people like you in this world.


kids, take a good look at that post of wewin's. learn a lesson from it, and keep what you learned with you. sadly, i have a feeling that it's going to be a long time before the boards are graced with such an eloquent, truthful response as that again.

[ISuckYoungBlood]

Yes I was very happy to see that wewin agreed with me. Learn the lesson please. If you aren't origninal then who the fuck are you? You aren't yourself. You are just role-playing. It's almost as these people you idolize made a script and you are acting it out. They are the brilliant ones for creating these generations of kids who play the role perfect.

[xAlexisonfirex]

yes i ma trendwhore because i am now moreint a different type of music.

i must've missed that stage in life wheere we had to choos e ONE type of music to write like, or to enjoy, listen to, be a part of.

[ISuckYoungBlood]

I think what wewin is trying to say is that all of the sudden you said you wanted to be indierock pop I think he jsut wrote his very great and long speech about having our own train of thought and doing things that come from your heart and try and make up your own styles.

But I shouln't speak for anyone.

[wewin]

alexisonfire, it's fine to like more than one style. but you declared emo and screamo as stylistically bankrupt art and said that you wanted to write something different now. you said you wanted to be "indie pop". that's hardly embracing what i was saying in my really fucking long post: you're not making anything new, you're just hopping to a different trend.

that and you're kind of really annoying the way you just decided to give up on your other lyrics instead of fixing them combines to make you a trendwhore.

[Rufio217]

Wow how does it go from me saying that, stickign to teh basic is not bad, adn then turning out to be that i said everyone ahs to write about love and crappy lyrics?

I just made the comment that i agreed that everyone hates cliched music, but when everythign is cliche hwo can you like anything? The point i was getting acrossed is that to each person a song is interpereted different, we win you interpreted a thrice song..."paper dragons" now what it means too you is different to someone else.

Everyone seems to be so eager to join sides with or against this case, when i was only stating that i was tired of hearing people complain about how cliche writing is, and that sticking to teh basics is nothing bad. Obviously people have blon this way out of proportion and taken it as though I said that there should be only one style of writing. I couldn't agree with wewin more, we need new inventive stuff to keep changeing

As for you constant mention of masses following one style of music...I disagree people flock to familiarities, but they branch off on the way so they aren't perfectly stiuck....I notice you love to include emo screamo in all your saying about masses, when their or more sub-genres in punk that "masses" follow than the emo-screamo"

As for anyone else who felt the need to add input and dis me on some level, learn to read, i did not state that love was the oly topic of writing abotu and we shoudl stick to it....I only stated it is frustrating not being able to post anything on these boreds without some part of your song being criticed as a cliche, and as soon as that happens nothign but negetive responses come about.....All you kids think your so turn of teh century, new exciting shit, chances are you look around in and at other different styles of music, not just punk, but metal, country, rap, or whatnot and what your doing is being done....Because i mean ou thought of it so there's a pretty good chance someone else did as well.

All in all lets just state originality is originality only if 1 person is doing it adn being you don't know all 6,000,000,000 in teh world you can't be sure your original,, and just b/c you hear somethign from a band once, doesn't mean it was the first time it was done, so in fact originality is just another trend b/c why not everyone is trying to be original so since everyones doing it....It MUST be a trend <>---make sense? jo it doesn't, but that's what your telling me.

[ISuckYoungBlood]

First of all, if you posted something and we said it was perfect or amazing what good what that do besides lift your ego? If you want an ego lift ask your mom who she loves or something don't post your lyrics on a board. The people that actually pay attention to your lyrics and actually take the time to tell you your weaknesses and strengths are the people that care the most about your lyrics. I mean would you really want me to lie and tell you your lyrics were amazing? In the end it would only hurt you because in truth they probably weren't, so people will eventually just mock you for poor lyrics. Also by me or anyone else tellnig you your lyrics were weak it's only helping you and making you into a stronger writer. There is always room for better so why not occupy that room?

And yes it is almost impossible to be completely oriniginal I agree with you on that, but many of those lyrics people are posting on the board are obviously people that are trying to write like their favorite bands or favorite song writers. If you really knew lyrics and song writing you could tell just by the words and analogies they use in order to tell their story that they are trying to write like someone they aren't. In truth people now are probably afraid, like I said earlier, because if they don't write like the massas they will just be made fun of and most of you post your lyrics for an ego boost or atleast thats what rufio217 said in a way, so you probably couldn't handle that abuse to your ego.


- everything has been done before. you just gotta make it better.
- It's hard to write when everything is cliche now...it's bullshit

^---> proving once again, we don't need new inventions on ways of writing, we just need improvements on the old stuff...stick to the basics, just, as emeril would say, Kick it up a notch...WHO cares if you write about liched shit it's worked this long it will still work, everyone complains about it, but i don't see it slowing them down when they go to buy their cd's, most of which are cd's of band the secretly love even though they say they are horrible... - Rufio217


And your wrong again, if you are still trying to prove that point. You said everything has been done before. If you are that nieve to even say that, then don't even put of a fight on this dispute because you'll be wrong, if you really want I will record something tottaly new and original in like 5 minutes just to disprove your theroy so don't say that bullshit. And everything isn't a cliche it just seems like that because most of you people on this board write your lyrics like your favorite artsist or song writers, like I said before. Also, if you are that narrow minded to not have invention or anything then give up on life. Your basically saying you'll strive on other peoples accomplishments and you'll be lazy and just make what they made except maybe excell on thier ideas. If everyone was like you, we wouldn't even be talking right now because we wouldn't have fucking computers. And many people care if people write about cliched stuff, it's boring and lazy and a lot of times when people cliche things they do it in a worse and less creative way just making it terrible lyrics. And yes I still buy cds of artists who cliche lyrics because I love the sound but let me tell you this these are my top 3 bands that I never stop listening to: Glassjaw, Thrice, Thursday. Now do those artists not have such original lyrics and styles? Yea I thought so. And mayb you secretly love bands because you already said you hate when your ego is blown. Well if I liked Simple Plan I would go right ahead and support them unlike you people that must follow the masses of your scene and be just like everyone else. Thats all I have to say. And no thank god there is someone like you wewin.

[BuriedAlive]

i will quote bert from the used "its impossible to write a song and not have your influences come into the song a little bit"

[ISuckYoungBlood]

First off it's not impossible, but yes it is hard and I am not saying that there should be no influence but most of these sogns people are posting are almost replicas. Bert is also probably talking about the melody anf guitar parts as well. His lyircs are very unique. I enjoy them.

[wewin]

as if bert from the fucking used knows anything about good music. the used are the trendiest losers ever, besides AFI and their fucking "despair faction"...oooooh...D E S PA I R!!!

seriously, though, yeah, your influences might show, but they shouldn't be blatantly obvious, unless you're a fucking retard.

fuck. fucking. fuck...man, i'm ubertough.

[Rufio217]

EGO being blown? do you honestly think I care about my ego being blown? ISuckYoungBlood, my ego has nothing o do with it. As i also recall i was complaining about my songs being criticized to the point where my ego was blown, I was making a comment on how everyone complains about cliches when they aren't always bad.

See I know I am not a stellar song writer, I know I let my influences show, and I know I could do a lot better work, But i'm happy with what I am writing.I post my songs for others to see, and people critic them, ok sometimes I get good advice on how to fix them, but most of the time people just slam you on something you thought was really cool <- does it help...it can in the furture. when you tell someone that their song sucks because it is cliche, that is tellling them that their favprite bands, artists, writers are cliched b/c they use similar ideas.

So it doesn't haev a damn thing to do with EGO, it has to do with heart, when you call a song a cliche it automatically brands it to most people as bad, when thats not always the case, and I don't see how a song being cliche makes it bad. A lot of them are decent songs, but by abeing a cliche alone doesn't make them weak....it makes them normal.

You can't sit here and tell me when writing you have never reused a line or twisted a line and thrown it in your song because you would be lying.

So don't stand here and tell me that i am afraid of getting my ego hurt, because that has nothing to do with the started conversation...I think your reaching fro straws to look for a backing to your argument, just stick to the topic, which in case your forgot is about cliched songs still being able to be good, because sticking the basics isn't always a bad thing.

[ISuckYoungBlood]

You said you know you can do a lot better so why don't you try? Why post songs that aren't perfect to you? If they aren't perfect to you then people will have many things negative to say about your songs.

And many times I just call a line cliche I have never called a whole song cliche and I don't believe I have seen anyone else call a whole song cliche.

Yes I can tell you as a writer I have never twisted a line inot my song. That is just disgusting, you just admitted that you take other peoples words right out of a song. I may have used a similar line without realizing, but I am one that edits my work constantly so I would eventually find it and change it. I would never take a line on purpose from someones song and pretend it was mine by changing it around a bit.

Yes, sticking to the basics isn't a bad thing... if you just want the masses to love you. I mean there are some basics that you would have to probably stay with, but if your hole song plot is based around basics then its hardly original. Not sticking to basics are for inventors, you may not be one, but they are the smart ones and the ones who create basics.

[xAlexisonfirex]

wewin i never fucking said anythign about indierock in that post so it has nothing to do with this conversation.

i said you made a great post, and said i don't like the stuff i've written bvefore...why? because it was all dishonest. and i hadnt actually fellt any of that.

uberfag suits you better.

i know thatll get to you cause its so unoriginal.

[lifelesslove]

the whole premise of this post is pointless as well...i agree completely, just cause someone makes a comment about how we are all cliche in our writing...i like to think that every piece of writing that I put onto paper, work out, revise is a new masterpiece to be fulfilled in music form...the last thing I want to hear is that my music is just a blank interpretation,or thought as someone elses...we all have the same thoughts run through our heads, we all face some of the same hardships, what makes us different is the personal understanding of every little thing that happens on life...every song I write could be taken different ways...most of the writing on these boards doesn't intrigue me, because lately, i've been reading stuff that doesn't even have a thought process...writing has now become a fashion, and if you don't want to be part of a dying trend, don't make yourself a part of it, or say that your in a trend...call my writing "emo", at the end of the day, i feel that it is much more than that...We all write about the same topics, just be original in the writing...i know i read different lyrics, and poetry and get the same opinion of what they are trying to say in it, but the way it is written, it makes it worth the read...don't be cliche, but don't categorize