"Mike and Mike in the morning" inspired discussion...

[nfggc10]

Mike and Mike have been discussing whether or not "true" fans can root for their teams to lose if they have no chance of reaching the playoffs and are in "contention" for a high draft pick. Greeny says fans would be stupid not to want their teams to lose, especially in basketball or football where one player can make an immediate impact. Golic says true fans should never root for their teams to lose. What's your opinion?


I agree with Greeny because as a fan I want my team to field the best team possible each season. If one year has already been lost and there's no hope/time to turn things around then every loss would be a benefit. if the Colts were ever 2-10 I would definitely want them to lose the rest because the benefit for being 2-14, and probably the 1st draft pick, is much greater than being 6-10 and out of the playoffs and a pick somewhere between 7-12. Again, it depends on the sport but usually losing the most games is often rewarded, whether thats good or not, so fans should want that reward even if it means hoping they lose games.

[StuGrimson]

Over the course of longer seasons like hockey, baseball and basketball you generally know by the 2/3 point of the season whether you will finish in the bottom 3-4 teams in the league. Its the guys in the middle which are close to making the playoffs but also close to being knocked out where the problem lies. If you were cheering for a team that is really bad, I guess the benifit is to have them keep losing, but a team that is relatively bad can still make the playoffs and have an impact. Also with some leagues instituting the draft lottery you may not get what you want anyway.

If you know anything about hockey (which I know you personally dont), look at the Alexandre Daigle situation for a reason why teams shouldnt pretty much lose on purpose down the stretch to get a first overall pick.

In football you can get away with being a bad team and making a positive out of it, but not so much in other sports unless there is a real gem, and more often then not in basketball and hockey the worst team may not get the first pick.

[nfggc10]

In football, I wouldn't even think twice about rooting for my team to lose in this scenario because there's usually one superstar pick available who can make an immediate impact on either side. I just don't think people should say that fans rooting for their teams to lose in order to get a top pick aren't "true" fans when it's actually the more intelligent point of view.

[we are cured]

i mean, if you're rooting for your team to lose in order for it to be better in the longrun, isn't this still 'rooting' for your team?

[mat1419]

can't do it. i can't even accept a yard loss. i'd rather be 3-13 and have the 5th pick than be 1-15 and have the first.

[mat1419]

i mean, if you're rooting for your team to lose in order for it to be better in the longrun, isn't this still 'rooting' for your team?

that's saying the ends justify the means. that kind of thinking is why we're in iraq. stupid mets...

[we are cured]

that's saying the ends justify the means. that kind of thinking is why we're in iraq. stupid mets...

no, because you're assuming getting the #1 pick is an end in itself. i'd say that the 'end' is a championship, and i will go through whatever means possible to get there.

and we're in iraq because a bunch of neo-cons got the white house and decided it was time to uproot the shaky financial network that is the middle-eastern oil industry. but this is a sports forum..

[StuGrimson]

The last 2 years the Leafs have missed the playoffs by 1 point...what does that get them? About a 13th overall draft pick in a shitty draft year. I kind of wish they would have shit the bed and finished at the bottom of the league then keep coming so close and failing.

[Chris289]

i mean, if you're rooting for your team to lose in order for it to be better in the longrun, isn't this still 'rooting' for your team?

I absolutely agree. Even though it really hurts to see your team lose, you know sometimes it's for the best. When I knew Miami wasn't making the playoffs I still wanted them to win but now looking at the draft line up and all the mock drafts, I wish they were up higher and could sink their teeth into Brady Quinn. Oh well.

[soundofthebrown]

even though there will be times when i would rather have the #1 overall pick, its all about pride and maintaining dignity. stick with teams through bad times and good times. i'm a texans fan, but still remain optimistic, b/c that is how a fan should be.

[Smithers]

if it gets the celtics oden or durant, i'd let them start taking shots at their own basket.

[FondestMemory]

i can't root for losses. anytime one of my teams loses, it fucking kills me. i don't take losing well at all.

whether they're 10-2 or 2-10, i don't care. i wouldn't be dedicated to them if losses didn't hurt.

[nfggc10]

i can't root for losses. anytime one of my teams loses, it fucking kills me. i don't take losing well at all.

whether they're 10-2 or 2-10, i don't care. i wouldn't be dedicated to them if losses didn't hurt.
Yeah but there comes a point when a team is unbelievably awful and losses would actually be in the best interest of the team. Honestly, when the Braves' chances of winning the wild card last year came to an end games lost much of their importance so losses didn't really hurt anymore. But there comes a point in every season where some teams have nothing to play for and are on the brink of getting a 1st or 2nd draft pick it would be dumb to want them to win.

[FondestMemory]

Yeah but there comes a point when a team is unbelievably awful and losses would actually be in the best interest of the team. Honestly, when the Braves' chances of winning the wild card last year came to an end games lost much of their importance so losses didn't really hurt anymore. But there comes a point in every season where some teams have nothing to play for and are on the brink of getting a 1st or 2nd draft pick it would be dumb to want them to win.

losses always hurt me. i could never want one of my teams to lose.

i'm concerned about the game i'm watching at this second, i'll worry about the future later.

and i hate the phrase 'nothing to play for.' winning has always been enough of a reason for me to play anything. and i'm not making millions of dollars to do so.

[nfggc10]

losses always hurt me. i could never want one of my teams to lose.

i'm concerned about the game i'm watching at this second, i'll worry about the future later.

and i hate the phrase 'nothing to play for.' winning has always been enough of a reason for me to play anything. and i'm not making millions of dollars to do so.
Yeah but on a competitive level, your goal is always to either make the postseason and then win the championship. When you can't even reach the playoffs you're technically not really playing for anything. From a players' perspective, you always want to win every game you play and do the best you can. But from a fan's perspective, once the playoffs are out of reach there's really not much to root for because there's no incentive at that point except for getting a better draft position. And once the current season is lost playoff wise then you have to start looking to the next year and what is going to help you field a better team, through the draft and other means so it would help for your team to lose games.

[FondestMemory]

Yeah but on a competitive level, your goal is always to either make the postseason and then win the championship. When you can't even reach the playoffs you're technically not really playing for anything. From a players' perspective, you always want to win every game you play and do the best you can. But from a fan's perspective, once the playoffs are out of reach there's really not much to root for because there's no incentive at that point except for getting a better draft position. And once the current season is lost playoff wise then you have to start looking to the next year and what is going to help you field a better team, through the draft and other means so it would help for your team to lose games.

from a fan's perspective, i always want to win every game.

no exceptions.

[nfggc10]

from a fan's perspective, i always want to win every game.

no exceptions.
Yea I understand why some people think like that but I never could when it's actually in the benefit of the team to lose games.

[trindaddy]

im a bengals fan since birth. i dont think i've ever rooted for them to lose a game in my life, even when they were terrible throughout the 90's and draft picks were almost always top ten. i can see how teams do it, or people root for their teams to lose when there is that one special player that could just change a franchise around (the o.j. simpson bowl) but my sundays are completely based around how my team does during football season. sure you can claim that "there's nothing left to play for but a better draft pick" but i like to think that the team should give it their all because im sure the thousands of fans the go to the games even when playoffs are out of reach dont go to watch their team lose. i dont like to see my teams lose in any sport, college or pro. again i can see why, but i think it shouldn't happen.

[nfggc10]

im a bengals fan since birth. i dont think i've ever rooted for them to lose a game in my life, even when they were terrible throughout the 90's and draft picks were almost always top ten. i can see how teams do it, or people root for their teams to lose when there is that one special player that could just change a franchise around (the o.j. simpson bowl) but my sundays are completely based around how my team does during football season. sure you can claim that "there's nothing left to play for but a better draft pick" but i like to think that the team should give it their all because im sure the thousands of fans the go to the games even when playoffs are out of reach dont go to watch their team lose. i dont like to see my teams lose in any sport, college or pro. again i can see why, but i think it shouldn't happen.Yeah the spirit of the question was that players themselves aren't tanking games or anything like that. College is a little different because one loss, in football, virtually ends their season but for recruiting purposes they will always have something to play for.

[preppyak]

from a fan's perspective, i always want to win every game.

no exceptions.
As a college sport fan primarily...this makes for an interesting argument for me, because I can almost never see a time (outside of getting a coach fired) that I would want my team to lose...since winning only gets better recruits to come, etc. But...I'll tempt it anyway:

The problem with having your team tank at the end of the season, and for rooting for it, is that it breeds a complacency that "well, we aren't doing our best, lets just lose and get more good players". Especially in the NBA, if your team is say 17-30 around halfway through the season, you may consider it a lost cause and hope your team tanks it, but chances are those are young players who are learning the wrong lesson...that instead of fighting harder when you are struggling, that you should just give up and hope for the best draft pick.

I usually agree with Greenberg, but I am with Golic on this, you can build a team in most sports in many ways, not just the draft...and the sense of team pride and winning that you build by having your team fight hard when they are 20 games below .500 is only that much more useful when they have a chance to make the playoffs. Which team do you think does better with 5 games to go and is on the bubble for a playoff spot...the one that spent its last 3 seasons tanking it for #1 picks and has never had to struggle at season's end, or the one that spent the last 3 seasons busting their balls to finish with that 30th win?

I understand the logic involved in wanting that top draft pick...but their is a reverse effect as well...and I think it can be as if not more detrimental to a team, especially a young one, to willingly lose at season's end.

[StuGrimson]

Is this Mike Golic of any relation to Bob Golic aka Mike Rogers from Saved By The Bell The College Years, if so I agree with whatever he says.

[livethesounds]

Is this Mike Golic of any relation to Bob Golic aka Mike Rogers from Saved By The Bell The College Years, if so I agree with whatever he says.

his brother.
and they look a lot alike.

[trindaddy]

mike and mike is the greatest sports show on tv if you ask me. the days when one or both of them missing are straight terrible.

and mike and bob are brothers, they both went to notre dame and played in the nfl (bobs team being mostly on the browns, and mikes mostly on the eagles) mikes son just got signed to a scholarship and is commited to notre dame in the fall.

[nfggc10]

mike and mike is the greatest sports show on tv if you ask me. the days when one or both of them missing are straight terrible.

and mike and bob are brothers, they both went to notre dame and played in the nfl (bobs team being mostly on the browns, and mikes mostly on the eagles) mikes son just got signed to a scholarship and is commited to notre dame in the fall.
It's definitely the best show on ESPN just ahead of PTI. I always agree with Greenberg and Golic is a great counterpart and his association with Notre Dame helps too. It'll be interesting to see how his son does there. Not sure if you listened that day but Mike called his son from Italy the day after he committed and it was really cool to see them interact and how proud Mike is that he's following in his footsteps.

[FondestMemory]

his brother.
and they look a lot alike.

not anymore they don't. i used to see bob fairly regularly. bob looks like hell anymore.

funny as hell though. he's a great dude.

[trindaddy]

It's definitely the best show on ESPN just ahead of PTI. I always agree with Greenberg and Golic is a great counterpart and his association with Notre Dame helps too. It'll be interesting to see how his son does there. Not sure if you listened that day but Mike called his son from Italy the day after he committed and it was really cool to see them interact and how proud Mike is that he's following in his footsteps.

yeah i watched that day, golic was just completely glowing. they're both very sensible and make great points (unlike skip bayless on cold pizza.. is there anybody who agrees with.. or even likes this guy for that fact). i think the show is less intense than pti, but more comical, enjoyable, and you can relate to the guys on a more personal level.
pti is a close second.

[trindaddy]

not anymore they don't. i used to see bob fairly regularly. bob looks like hell anymore.

funny as hell though. he's a great dude.


does bob still have his radio show in akron?

[FondestMemory]

does bob still have his radio show in akron?

yeah, last i checked. it's a news show, not sports.

[Drew Beringer]

In 2005, I wanted the Packers to win every game. Even when they were 3-12 going into the final game vs Seattle, I rooted my ass off for them. I can never ever root against the Packers, Colts, Brewers, Red Sox. Pacers are a different story because they lack character and have a shitty front office that has fucked over the team so badly.

[youkwalks]

are we talking about the team throwing the game or just rooting for them to lose?

either way, I want my team to win. One draft pick will not solve anything.

[nfggc10]

are we talking about the team throwing the game or just rooting for them to lose?

either way, I want my team to win. One draft pick will not solve anything.Just rooting for them to lose, not the players tanking games. And you can't really say one draft pick won't solve alot of problems especially in basketball and even football where one player can have an immediate impact.

[preppyak]

yeah...I think basketball is the biggest one...where one player like a LeBron, Kobe, etc can really change your team from 25 wins to 35+