Seperate Church & State

[ReFuSeD!]

Some Americans may not have heard this, but recently our government has changed our marriage laws. Gay marriages are now legal now, but the Catholic Church is shitting bricks. The Pope made a huge report sent to everyone to oppose gay marriage because it's unnatural. What the fuck? The church should have no say in this. I used to be a catholic when I was younger, but I feel more and more confident each day about leaving the church.

[proeuthanasia]

Originally posted by ReFuSeD!
to oppose gay marriage because it's unnatural. What the fuck? The church should have no say in this.


I completely agree. The Church should not have a say. Neither, however, should the state. Who is George Bush to say that you cannot go out right now and shove your dick in some guy's ass? He is president, he has control over many things, but he is not a leader capable, much less worthy, of ultimate dominance. I doubt you would go and do that, but who, in all honesty, has the authority to forbid you to do it. Answer: no one. One thing i cannot stand about our government, and most governments in general, is that there always seems to be an enormous power trip following on the coattails of every politician and leader, no matter who they are. I don't know where 'the state' ever got the idea that they could restrict a person from acting toward their sexual preferences, but if it has gotten to the point to where it was actually being considered as a law, well then it's just gone too damn far. And, branching off a bit here, who is to say that homosexuality is even unnatural? Because intercourse between two men does not produce offspring? Well then, would that qualify all intercourse between a man and a woman that does not result in conception as unnatural? I hardly think so. And whoever is dense enough to use the whole 'Adam and Eve' argument against this, well i would like you to show me liable proof of the existence of those two persons. The whole thing is ludicrous. If it were possible for a man and a man together to produce children, then i guarantee that the people of today would frown upon heterosexuality and call it unnatural. In the end, the whole thing boils down to ignorance and narrow mindedness. An innability to accept something, even if you do not like it. And, frankly, it disgusts me.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by proeuthanasia
I completely agree. The Church should not have a say. Neither, however, should the state. Who is George Bush to say that you cannot go out right now and shove your dick in some guy's ass? He is president, he has control over many things, but he is not a leader capable, much less worthy, of ultimate dominance. I doubt you would go and do that, but who, in all honesty, has the authority to forbid you to do it. Answer: no one. One thing i cannot stand about our government, and most governments in general, is that there always seems to be an enormous power trip following on the coattails of every politician and leader, no matter who they are. I don't know where 'the state' ever got the idea that they could restrict a person from acting toward their sexual preferences, but if it has gotten to the point to where it was actually being considered as a law, well then it's just gone too damn far. .

the governement isn't outlawing or restricting being gay....only gay marriages.

[NOFXdesendents5]

You guys are fucking stupid. The Church is not attached to the government and they can refuse to marry homosexuals if they want because they are a seperate organization.

Just because the Catholic Church thinks that homosexuality is wrong doesn't mean you can go and make them change all their teachings to your views.

[BrandNewDream]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
You guys are fucking stupid. The Church is not attached to the government and they can refuse to marry homosexuals if they want because they are a seperate organization.

Just because the Catholic Church thinks that homosexuality is wrong doesn't mean you can go and make them change all their teachings to your views.

You're fucking stupid. They never said anything about the Church and the government. Someone mentioned the letter the Pope sent out, and that's how talk of the church got started. And I don't think anyone was trying to change the teachings of the Catholic church...next time don't talk out of your ass.

[Matthew]

Originally posted by cal1082
What do you expect the church to do come out and support gay marriages and change their beliefs?

I think its hilarious that people flip out whenever "church" and "change" are put in the same sentence. It's sad that the archaic and unaccepting institution that is the church has become so stubborn that its followers LAUGH at the idea of it changing its ideals. Are you proud of the fact that your chruch refuses to accept the modern world?

Times change. Sometimes churches need to change. This stupid fucked up catholic pride war is starting to have serious repercussions, what with the child molesting and the gay rights, and change may be the only solution.

Albert Einstein once said that. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." The church needs to swallow its pride and admit its faults, then start living in the real world.

[ReFuSeD!]

Our Prime Minister is Catholic so there aree Bishops here that are pretty much telling him that if he's a "good Catholic" he will not pass the bill to keep gay marriages legal. The church pretty much said that you're damned if you're not against gay marriage.

and proeuthanasia, well said. I'm not gay or anything, but I dont have anything against them. But both the USA and Canada like to boast to their citizens about how "free" we actually are. If I'm so free I should be able to marry whoever the fuck I like.

[kineticsurfer]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
You guys are fucking stupid. The Church is not attached to the government and they can refuse to marry homosexuals if they want because they are a seperate organization.

Just because the Catholic Church thinks that homosexuality is wrong doesn't mean you can go and make them change all their teachings to your views.

actually i was haveing a riviting disicussion with the pope just a little while ago, and he said that he'd seriously consider changing years and years of tradition and teachings in the church just of that one guy who expressed his opinion on the ABSOLUTEPUNK forum. i'm not sayn' that we are inferrior but wt the hell does our opinion count. there is so much prejudice aginst punks i'm supprised they don't outlaw being a punk. no one cares wt we say or think except us.

[the_champ_is_here]

Originally posted by kineticsurfer
actually i was haveing a riviting disicussion with the pope just a little while ago, and he said that he'd seriously consider changing years and years of tradition and teachings in the church just of that one guy who expressed his opinion on the ABSOLUTEPUNK forum. i'm not sayn' that we are inferrior but wt the hell does our opinion count. there is so much prejudice aginst punks i'm supprised they don't outlaw being a punk. no one cares wt we say or think except us.

There are very few "punks" on this message board. Who are you to say one person or a small amount of people can't change a church. Remember the reformation buddy? And stop all the "punk" talk. Labeling people is retarded.

There is also a lot to be said about proper spelling and grammar.

[NOFXdesendents5]

Originally posted by kineticsurfer
actually i was haveing a riviting disicussion with the pope just a little while ago, and he said that he'd seriously consider changing years and years of tradition and teachings in the church just of that one guy who expressed his opinion on the ABSOLUTEPUNK forum. i'm not sayn' that we are inferrior but wt the hell does our opinion count. there is so much prejudice aginst punks i'm supprised they don't outlaw being a punk. no one cares wt we say or think except us.

Wow your funny:rolleyes:

Jesus Christ was more punk than anyone ever could be so quiet n00b1e

[proeuthanasia]

Originally posted by yeat182
the governement isn't outlawing or restricting being gay....only gay marriages.


read it again. i said if they are trying to restrict you from ACTING on your sexual preferences. including marrying the same sex.

[BrandNewDream]

Originally posted by cal1082
Yes they did, they said



The Church stands for what it thinks is right, and they are trying to express their opinion on the matter which could change the opinion of the people. What do you expect the church to do come out and support gay marriages and change their beliefs?

True...I must have read it wrong, my mistake. I wasn't in the right state of mind, it was about 3 am when I posted that.

[proeuthanasia]

Originally posted by kineticsurfer
actually i was haveing a riviting disicussion with the pope just a little while ago, and he said that he'd seriously consider changing years and years of tradition and teachings in the church just of that one guy who expressed his opinion on the ABSOLUTEPUNK forum. i'm not sayn' that we are inferrior but wt the hell does our opinion count. there is so much prejudice aginst punks i'm supprised they don't outlaw being a punk. no one cares wt we say or think except us.



oh my fucking god. TAKE A GOOD FUCKING LOOK LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. that attitude right there is what is going to bring on the end of progression. i'm sick of people using the whole 'one person isn't going to make a difference' thing as a fucking scapegoat for being a passive pussy. goddamnit. our country, not to mention the entire fucking world, is not going to get anywhere with a world full of kids who think like that. shut the fuck up about 'who cares about what we say'. stand up, believe in yourself, and fucking make them hear what you have to say.

[ms y o o n]

i think churches can say something if the couple wants to get married in a church.
Its hard for people to change, and you all know that. I mean if it took this long for a country to make gay marriages legal... then it could take a while for a CHURCH to accept it. I personally dont think its the RELIGION that is messed up, just certain churches and people.

[kineticsurfer]

Originally posted by proeuthanasia
oh my fucking god. TAKE A GOOD FUCKING LOOK LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. that attitude right there is what is going to bring on the end of progression. i'm sick of people using the whole 'one person isn't going to make a difference' thing as a fucking scapegoat for being a passive pussy. goddamnit. our country, not to mention the entire fucking world, is not going to get anywhere with a world full of kids who think like that. shut the fuck up about 'who cares about what we say'. stand up, believe in yourself, and fucking make them hear what you have to say.


woah woah chill down ya lil fuck, did i ever say that one person can't make a differance. hum...... it seems as though i actually did not say that. weird cus i will more then likely be maken' a fuckn' differance i'm #1 in my class. i just said that it doesn't really matter what you say on these forums. actually i did say that one person isn't going to change a system of beliefs, and guess what jackass the day one man w/ out supporters or anything changes a whole church system i will give you a billion dollars......

[kineticsurfer]

Originally posted by proeuthanasia
oh my fucking god. TAKE A GOOD FUCKING LOOK LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. that attitude right there is what is going to bring on the end of progression. i'm sick of people using the whole 'one person isn't going to make a difference' thing as a fucking scapegoat for being a passive pussy. goddamnit. our country, not to mention the entire fucking world, is not going to get anywhere with a world full of kids who think like that. shut the fuck up about 'who cares about what we say'. stand up, believe in yourself, and fucking make them hear what you have to say.

in my first responce to this i forgot to say suck my dick

[kineticsurfer]

Originally posted by proeuthanasia
oh my fucking god. TAKE A GOOD FUCKING LOOK LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. that attitude right there is what is going to bring on the end of progression. i'm sick of people using the whole 'one person isn't going to make a difference' thing as a fucking scapegoat for being a passive pussy. goddamnit. our country, not to mention the entire fucking world, is not going to get anywhere with a world full of kids who think like that. shut the fuck up about 'who cares about what we say'. stand up, believe in yourself, and fucking make them hear what you have to say.

i also forgot to add that in addition to being first in my class i start first base for my high school, am a sponcered surfer, have hundreds of service hours, and have a magnificantly beautiful cheerleader girlfriend

[.&$]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
Wow your funny:rolleyes:

Jesus Christ was more punk than anyone ever could be so quiet n00b1e

if jesus was so punk, then how come he just took the life his daddy had planned out for him without question? if jesus really was punk, hed hate his stepdads guts, tell his real dad to fuck off, i not taking over the family business and let me live my own life, moved to california, and start an 80's hair band, being the arrogant frontman.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by .&$
if jesus was so punk, then how come he just took the life his daddy had planned out for him without question? if jesus really was punk, hed hate his stepdads guts, tell his real dad to fuck off, i not taking over the family business and let me live my own life, moved to california, and start an 80's hair band, being the arrogant frontman.

yeah, if anything jesus was a hippie...long hair, sandals, "peace and love"....not to mention him and his hippie friends didn't have jobs or a permanent address...

[proeuthanasia]

oh yes, kinetic? then what's this?

Originally posted by kineticsurfer
i'm not sayn' that we are inferrior but wt the hell does our opinion count. there is so much prejudice aginst punks i'm supprised they don't outlaw being a punk. no one cares wt we say or think except us.



and don't try to impress me with your grades, sports status, and girlfriend. i too was first in my class. last year. it was not hard and, frankly, it's nothing special. i feel smarter being twelfth in my class (as i am now) than i did being first. i do not like baseball. and as for girlfriends, well i can't say i'm jealous seeing as how i'm a woman. and a heterosexual one at that.



this, however, is all beside the point. i couldn't care less about it anymore. three things overrule all others (even a political arguement) in my opinion, and that is music, love, and being able to relate. you said you surf. my friend, we share a common passion. who sponsors you?

[proeuthanasia]

Originally posted by .&$
if jesus was so punk, then how come he just took the life his daddy had planned out for him without question? if jesus really was punk, hed hate his stepdads guts, tell his real dad to fuck off, i not taking over the family business and let me live my own life, moved to california, and start an 80's hair band, being the arrogant frontman.


haha. amen.

[bossydacow]

nobody listens to the pope anyway. no one needs to worry about the pope persuading Bush to do anything. I think the Church is old fashioned, but what non-catholics don't realize is that hardly any catholics, american ones at least, really listen to what the Pope says. In fact, the only issue most catholics agree with the pope on, myself excluded, is the anti-abortion position.So basically the pope is preaching to deaf ears. I'd say 97% of the girls at my school are pro gay marriage, and these girls come from what can be considered conservative religious and political families.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by yeat182
yeah, if anything jesus was a hippie...long hair, sandals, "peace and love"....not to mention him and his hippie friends didn't have jobs or a permanent address... ha, permanent address....

[NOFXdesendents5]

Originally posted by .&$
if jesus was so punk, then how come he just took the life his daddy had planned out for him without question? if jesus really was punk, hed hate his stepdads guts, tell his real dad to fuck off, i not taking over the family business and let me live my own life, moved to california, and start an 80's hair band, being the arrogant frontman.

Oh sorry, I forgot punks are supposed to hate their fathers!

[NOFXdescendents]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
Oh sorry, I forgot punks are supposed to hate their fathers!

own3d

[the_champ_is_here]

Originally posted by NOFXdescendents
own3d

You can't call your own ownage.

[NOFXdesendents5]

Originally posted by Balderdash
You can't call your own ownage.

no shit, its not me.

[WithStamin]

The church is seperate from the state. Gay marriage has been illegal for hundreds of years, and no one claimed that lack of it was in violation of that seperation of that until now. A bunch of people are just trying to force homosexuality into the mainstream and get a ton of media attention. The bottom line: the church and state can have some similar policies as long as the church doesn't actually make the decisions.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by WithStamin
The church is seperate from the state. Gay marriage has been illegal for hundreds of years, and no one claimed that lack of it was in violation of that seperation of that until now. A bunch of people are just trying to force homosexuality into the mainstream and get a ton of media attention. The bottom line: the church and state can have some similar policies as long as the church doesn't actually make the decisions.
exactly...the government bases laws on morality...for the most part...and morality pretty much stems from religion, so as long as we dont have the dali lama or the pope deciding our issues, I think we are ok...

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
exactly...the government bases laws on morality...for the most part...and morality pretty much stems from religion, so as long as we dont have the dali lama or the pope deciding our issues, I think we are ok... Right. Saying that gay marriage should be legal because the Bible is against it is like saying murder should be legal because the Bible is against it.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Right. Saying that gay marriage should be legal because the Bible is against it is like saying murder should be legal because the Bible is against it. Oh my! We outlawed theft, and thats is in the 10 commandments too! We must be a government ruined by Christian beliefs! We must let people steal! Otherwise the church and the state would be interlocked!

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Oh my! We outlawed theft, and thats is in the 10 commandments too! We must be a government ruined by Christian beliefs! We must let people steal! Otherwise the church and the state would be interlocked!

most christian objects, Ceremonies, images, and holy days are based off pagan beliefs......does that make you a pagan?

[yeat182]

isn't most of christianity based of judasism?

[wrongway]

well, most laws, whether christian faith, jewish faith, or american government, are based on common fucking sense. so who cares?

[wrongway]

here's your basis for laws, right here
if you kill someone, they die. murder = bad.
if you steal from someone, they go without. theft = bad.
if you lie to someone, they miss the truth. lying = bad.
if you hit someone, it hurts. violence = bad.

see how that works? COMMON FUCKING SENSE. :)

[Charlito Cafe]

Originally posted by wrongway
here's your basis for laws, right here
if you kill someone, they die. murder = bad.
if you steal from someone, they go without. theft = bad.
if you lie to someone, they miss the truth. lying = bad.
if you hit someone, it hurts. violence = bad.

see how that works? COMMON FUCKING SENSE. :)

So what's the COMMON FUCKING SENSE behind outlawing gay marriage? That doesn't hurt anyone, and could in fact help stop the spread of AIDS by encouraging monogamy in the homosexual community.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by Charlito Cafe
So what's the COMMON FUCKING SENSE behind outlawing gay marriage? That doesn't hurt anyone, and could in fact help stop the spread of AIDS by encouraging monogamy in the homosexual community.

there is no common sense behind, its just blind ignorance, i've yet to see a real arguement has to why there can't be universal marriage.........

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Charlito Cafe
So what's the COMMON FUCKING SENSE behind outlawing gay marriage? That doesn't hurt anyone, and could in fact help stop the spread of AIDS by encouraging monogamy in the homosexual community.
Its unnatural...why can't you marry your sister? There is no reason for a gay couple to get married...I mean its not like these people have to worry about fathering a bastard child or anything....

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Its unnatural...

............theres nothing unnatural about............

[yeat182]

you don't see too many examples of homosexuality anywhere else in nature...

[NetNerdsRevenge]

you have seamen for a reason.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
There is no reason for a gay couple to get married...I mean its not like these people have to worry about fathering a bastard child or anything....

How about they want the rights that a spouse would have? How about they just want their relationship to hold some sort of validation in the eyes of the government? The government is basically making assumptions on how a person loves another person; would you want people who don't even know you to assume they know exactly how you feel? To decide who you can and can't hold a loving, committed marriage with?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
How about they want the rights that a spouse would have? How about they just want their relationship to hold some sort of validation in the eyes of the government? The government is basically making assumptions on how a person loves another person; would you want people who don't even know you to assume they know exactly how you feel? To decide who you can and can't hold a loving, committed marriage with?
Then why cant Bille Bob marry his sister Mary Kay? Explain that one, I mean if they love each other and everything, why not? Because its wrong....

[wrongway]

Originally posted by Charlito Cafe
So what's the COMMON FUCKING SENSE behind outlawing gay marriage? That doesn't hurt anyone, and could in fact help stop the spread of AIDS by encouraging monogamy in the homosexual community.

i want gay marriage to be legal. i was commenting about how people were trying to trace laws back through all these religions and shit. come on, 95% of major laws/commandments are common sense.

[ThriceOwnsYou]

you don't see too many examples of homosexuality anywhere else in nature...
Dogs and dolphins have both been shown to show homosexual tendencies, but i don't think gays should be married.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Then why cant Bille Bob marry his sister Mary Kay? Explain that one, I mean if they love each other and everything, why not? Because its wrong....

the fact that gays love each other isn't the only reason they want to be legally recognized as partners. A big reason is that they also want to have certain rights that only immediate family members can have. A brother and sister, being of immediate family to each other, already have those rights. There is no need to be married. And since thousands of people aren't crawling out of the woodwork saying they want to marry their brother or sister, incestual marriage is not an issue. If it proved to be as common as homosexuality than things would have to be reassessed...

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by yeat182
you don't see too many examples of homosexuality anywhere else in nature...


i'm not sure what nature your looking.........but in the animal kingdom homosexuality completely normal, although bi-sexuality is far more common........

[yeat182]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
i'm not sure what nature your looking.........but in the animal kingdom homosexuality completely normal, although bi-sexuality is far more common........

not monogomous homosexuality, that isn't natural, if it were, it would mean the end of that species.

i'm not saying that a man loving a man is wrong, you can love and have feelings for who ever you want as far as i'm concerened, but that is a mental decision, not a natural force of nature.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by dep_rules
of course monogamous homosexualtiy isnt normal in other animals because theyre not human

humans are much more different in their emotions and their ability to reason which is why arguments like these spring up. a porcupine doesnt give a shit. it just goes about his life. he doesnt know how to get married. granted, some animals (such as whales) tend to mate with the same partners with shows -some- monogamous behavior, but on the whole the whole issue of marriage is completely lost to any animal besides the human. 99.9% of animals dont engage in heterosexual monogamous relationships let alone homosexual ones

yes, that was what i was getting at, the concept of marriage isn't "natural" in the first place, so saying that gay marriage is natural isn't true...

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by yeat182
not monogomous homosexuality, that isn't natural, if it were, it would mean the end of that species.


life long relationships aren't the norm for every speice in nature.............and homosexuality could also help a species thrive because it helps control the population.......

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by yeat182
yes, that was what i was getting at, the concept of marriage isn't "natural" in the first place, so saying that gay marriage is natural isn't true...

thats not the point brandnew was arguing........he was saying that just being gay was "unnatural", not just marriage......

[yeat182]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
and homosexuality could also help a species thrive because it helps control the population.......

thats a good point

[yeat182]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
i'm not sure what nature your looking.........but in the animal kingdom homosexuality completely normal, although bi-sexuality is far more common........

well, just to play devils advocate, just because a human has 6 fingers or a turtle has 2 heads, does that make it natural? or is it an abhorration? i don't know that you can say, just because it exists, that makes it natural...

[Justin_stacy]

i understand where your coming......and i probably wouldn't have put up such a big fight if brandnew had used words like its "not normal" or the "norm" to be gay in our culture......instead of unnatural......

[yeat182]

haha, yes we've all been there...brandnew is a great instigator

[omegaX]

Originally posted by proeuthanasia
I completely agree. The Church should not have a say. Neither, however, should the state. Who is George Bush to say that you cannot go out right now and shove your dick in some guy's ass? He is president, he has control over many things, but he is not a leader capable, much less worthy, of ultimate dominance. I doubt you would go and do that, but who, in all honesty, has the authority to forbid you to do it. Answer: no one. One thing i cannot stand about our government, and most governments in general, is that there always seems to be an enormous power trip following on the coattails of every politician and leader, no matter who they are. I don't know where 'the state' ever got the idea that they could restrict a person from acting toward their sexual preferences, but if it has gotten to the point to where it was actually being considered as a law, well then it's just gone too damn far. And, branching off a bit here, who is to say that homosexuality is even unnatural? Because intercourse between two men does not produce offspring? Well then, would that qualify all intercourse between a man and a woman that does not result in conception as unnatural? I hardly think so. And whoever is dense enough to use the whole 'Adam and Eve' argument against this, well i would like you to show me liable proof of the existence of those two persons. The whole thing is ludicrous. If it were possible for a man and a man together to produce children, then i guarantee that the people of today would frown upon heterosexuality and call it unnatural. In the end, the whole thing boils down to ignorance and narrow mindedness. An innability to accept something, even if you do not like it. And, frankly, it disgusts me.

Yes. I was reading down the threads, dying to join in, but you said exactly what i wanted to say. The gov. shouldnt have any say about this either.

And for once, i dont have much of an opinion on this topic. I really can't give a shit about 2 guys fuckin each other for their whole lives. No stance on this part.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by yeat182
haha, yes we've all been there...brandnew is a great instigator I dont start fights...what are you talking about?

[yeat182]

when i was talking about making a mental decision i meant getting married to another gay person was a mental decision, but i see you're point. the only thing is, they haven't proven it is a genetic trait, so it could be psychological.

[Ronin]

Originally posted by yeat182
when i was talking about making a mental decision i meant getting married to another gay person was a mental decision, but i see you're point. the only thing is, they haven't proven it is a genetic trait, so it could be psychological.


They've got pretty good evidence that there's a centreal genetic factor determining your sexual orientation. They do this through studies of fraternal and identical twins.

[Ronin]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Then why cant Bille Bob marry his sister Mary Kay? Explain that one, I mean if they love each other and everything, why not? Because its wrong....

Then why can you marry your second cousin? Isn't that wrong?

The reason incest is illegal is because it makes the genetic pool shallow and makes genetic disorders more common. If your family has a history of down syndrome, both you and your sister have the genes for the disease, regardless of whether or not you're afflicted with it. If you marry and have children, they have a MUCH higher chance of being afflicted with the disease. With incest, you're compounding any existing genetic problems.

So this wouldn't exactly be a problem for homosexual couples, would it?

[yeat182]

Originally posted by Ronin
Then why can you marry your second cousin? Isn't that wrong?

The reason incest is illegal is because it makes the genetic pool shallow and makes genetic disorders more common. If your family has a history of down syndrome, both you and your sister have the genes for the disease, regardless of whether or not you're afflicted with it. If you marry and have children, they have a MUCH higher chance of being afflicted with the disease. With incest, you're compounding any existing genetic problems.

So this wouldn't exactly be a problem for homosexual couples, would it?

maybe some people consider homossexuality a genetic disorder...

[Charlito Cafe]

Originally posted by yeat182
maybe some people consider homossexuality a genetic disorder...

The point is a monogamous homosexual couple can't hurt anyone, so why make a law agaisnt it?

[Ronin]

Originally posted by cal1082
Same reason we have laws against polygamist's getting married. It's not seen as socialy acceptable, and is seen as being wrong.

If it's not hurting anyone, why is it wrong?

If your church is against same sex marriages, then it has every right not to marry same sex couples. Why should we make choices for other people when their decisions make no impact on our lives?

[Ronin]

Originally posted by cal1082
there's other laws that dont hurt people but it's still socialy unacceptable. Public Nudity, and you can't use the bathroom in public. None of these hurt people, it's just socialy unacceptable.

Using the bathroom in public spreads disease

And public nudity shouldn't be a crime (in my opinion), unless it's purpose is for sexual harrassment or the like. In Toronto, it's legal for women to walk the streets with their tops off. It's not hurting anyone, so what's the big deal?

[Ronin]

Originally posted by cal1082
Well you could say homosexual's spread the disease of AIDS more quickly than heterosexuals. And it's more abudant in their culture.

The point is that it's socialy unacceptable at this point.

Just because it's socially unacceptable at this point doesn't mean it's wrong. Think of historical examples like the role of women in society and slavery.

Also, AIDS spreads equally fast through both heterosexual and homosexual communities at this point, and it's equally abundant.

[Charlito Cafe]

Originally posted by cal1082
I agree it doesnt mean it's wrong, but on the same hand does it make it right?

I disagree about the spread of AIDS though, the spread is much, much higher among homosexuals males.

The reason it spreads so fast is because a lot of homosexuals don't lead monagamous sexual lives. By outlawing gay marriage, we're only encouraging them to have multiple sexual partners, and the disease will spread faster. I'm sure if homosexuals were allowed to get married AIDS wouldn't spread as fast. It wouldn't totally eliminate the problem, but it's a step in the right direction. That's one major benefit of allowing homosexual marriages, and I've yet to see any major harm.

As far as it being wrong or right, the government should look past that in this case and see that a major benefit can be achieved by allowing gay marriages.

[Charlito Cafe]

Originally posted by cal1082
What???? So you're saying allowing gays to get married means that they'll spread AIDS less? What kind of definition of love are they and you working with? I think if you love someone you wouldnt cheat on them whether you're married or not. That's a load of crap.

No, I'm saying the government should encourage a monaganistc lifestyle to help prevent AIDS from spreading. By outlawing gay marriage, it's sending the message that the government thinks "Gays don't love each other, they just sleep around so why let them get married?" That's the wrong message for an anti-AIDS government to send.

[proeuthanasia]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Its unnatural...why can't you marry your sister? There is no reason for a gay couple to get married...I mean its not like these people have to worry about fathering a bastard child or anything....


first of all, you have no grounds for saying it is unnatural. if you would like to argue with me, then first refer to my previous post on this subject which i have so kindly quoted below for your convenience

Originally posted by proeuthanasia
ar. And, branching off a bit here, who is to say that homosexuality is even unnatural? Because intercourse between two men does not produce offspring? Well then, would that qualify all intercourse between a man and a woman that does not result in conception as unnatural? I hardly think so. And whoever is dense enough to use the whole 'Adam and Eve' argument against this, well i would like you to show me liable proof of the existence of those two persons. The whole thing is ludicrous. If it were possible for a man and a man together to produce children, then i guarantee that the people of today would frown upon heterosexuality and call it unnatural. In the end, the whole thing boils down to ignorance and narrow mindedness. An innability to accept something, even if you do not like it. And, frankly, it disgusts me.



secondly, why can't you marry your sister? well dear, because children produced by siblings are plagued with, more often than not, a series of serious birth defects. it is a proven fact that intercourse between a brother and a sister, mother and a son, any type of incest almost always results in deformity. and often times, the coupling of relatives is fatal to their offspring. the illegalizing of incest is merely an attempt to protect the health and well-being of newborn humans. This, however, does not apply to gay intercourse because two men together cannot conceive children. Thus, there is no risk to an unborn human being's health. Normally brandnewrock, i have no problem with you. But that comment of yours made you sound extremely ignorant and unintelligent. I suggest you take care not to repeat the same mistake.