Not Intact (An Underground Us)

[drummer1400]

Not Intact (An Underground Us)



He found that cup where the Prince keeps his steam.
He said "Boy, that must taste foolish, but give me a drink."
He regretted these words and for what he had reached,
Then uttered them again with dusty phrases and broken speech.


We are the symptoms of something chronic and critical,
But the doctors couldn't find it when we cried.
So we'll recess for a while…but only for a while.
Then we'll scream louder and louder and louder….


Save us, arrange us-- in columns and rows
And we'll train wreck, repair, and come back to blows.
Meet me in denial, Join me in denial. It's nice here…It's nice here.


He'd had a taste of something he liked,
And against his will it taught him to bite.
His jaws were worn and gums began to bleed,
So he finally asked: "Am I sick enough for your quarantine?"


We are the symptoms of something chronic and critical,
But the doctors couldn't find it when we cried.
So we'll recess for a while…but only for a while.
Then we'll scream louder and louder and louder….


Save us, arrange us-- in columns and rows
And we'll train wreck, repair, and come back to blows.
Meet me in denial, Join me in denial. It's nice here…It's nice here.


We thought we were piping hot at this velocity,
Dressed in our favorite color,
White with promise and red with apathy.
Then skin turns pale as that color drains out of me.
I think I've found my touch, but then again…
We're not intact and we can't make it out alive.


So…
Save us, arrange us-- in columns and rows
And we'll train wreck, repair, and come back to blows.
Meet me in denial, Join me in denial. It's nice here…It's nice here.

[hailthewarrior]

I really enjoyed this. The pacing and rhythm was excellent. Good job.

[drummer1400]

I really enjoyed this. The pacing and rhythm was excellent. Good job.


Thanks man. I enjoyed writing this piece.

[missmatilde]

"So…
Save us, arrange us-- in columns and rows
And we'll train wreck, repair, and come back to blows." -->really liked :-)

[drummer1400]

"So…
Save us, arrange us-- in columns and rows
And we'll train wreck, repair, and come back to blows." -->really liked :-)

Thanks :). Im glad you liked it. Thats one of my favorite parts. Is it conceited to have a favorite part in your own song? haha....

[lew_1987]

first of all, i love the title. second of all, love the whole thing. great work

[missmatilde]

Is it conceited to have a favorite part in your own song? haha....

I think it is, there's always a part you liked the most\ you cared most for\
you enjoyed writing the most, at least I normally have my own fav bit in my songs ;-)

[drummer1400]

I think it is, there's always a part you liked the most\ you cared most for\
you enjoyed writing the most, at least I normally have my own fav bit in my songs ;-)


Did you mean to say it wasnt conceited? haha.

[drummer1400]

first of all, i love the title. second of all, love the whole thing. great work


Thanks :). I appreciate the love.

[missmatilde]

ye....:bush: drummer rules, singers are dumb.... did I just say that?... that's the proof...
but I'd deny to death if u ever ask! :-) lol...

[drummer1400]

ye....:bush: drummer rules, singers are dumb.... did I just say that?... that's the proof...
but I'd deny to death if u ever ask! :-) lol...

Im not sure if I should take that as I compliment or not...im both a drummer and a singer...and a guitarist...and a pianist, lol. My username is misleading. Haha.

[missmatilde]

i'm the 'girl' and the singer in a group... get teased a lot some times... :-)
so.. compliment ;-)
drummer+singer+guitarist+pianist=wo w...
I used to play the piano, and sucky-play few chords on guitar... pretty much just enough to get by...:blush:;-)

[liveloud4life]

Get off of there drummer1400, you cant be on there in computer class. You've got work to do.

[liveloud4life]

And I would hardly say pianist, lol. ;-)

[drummer1400]

And I would hardly say pianist, lol. ;-)

Haha. Am too. Ive been practicing, havent I told you?

[missmatilde]

going on the internet in computer clas... M-(
:-pthat's like all I do when we go in the comps lab ;-)

[drummer1400]

going on the internet in computer clas... M-(
:-pthat's like all I do when we go in the comps lab ;-)


Definitely. What else would computer class be for? ;-)

[missmatilde]

so agreed! :-)

[drummer1400]

Working on music for the song....

[drummer1400]

Anyone else have suggestions?

[xsxarexsoxscene]

i honestly thought this was incredible. suggestions though:

He regretted these words and for what he had reached,
Then uttered them again with dusty phrases and broken speech.

2 problems here. 1) if the word for is relating to the regret, that makes no sense. the phrase would read 'he regretted for what he had reached'. you don't need the 'for'. 2) The second phrase i quoted has a problem in the flow and meter. because the first phrase has 11 syllables and the second has 15. its very uneven. if you take out 'dusty phrases and' the second phrase would have 10 syllables and sound worlds better.

hope that helps :)

[CarrieDee]

I knows it's been quoted back at you already but,


Save us, arrange us-- in columns and rows
And we'll train wreck, repair, and come back to blows.
Meet me in denial, Join me in denial. It's nice here…It's nice here.


is really great, it's got such a great rhythm(sp?) already, I'd love to hear it in a song.
on the whole I really liked it, it's not obvious, but it doesn't come off as pretentious either.

[drummer1400]

i honestly thought this was incredible. suggestions though:

He regretted these words and for what he had reached,
Then uttered them again with dusty phrases and broken speech.

2 problems here. 1) if the word for is relating to the regret, that makes no sense. the phrase would read 'he regretted for what he had reached'. you don't need the 'for'. 2) The second phrase i quoted has a problem in the flow and meter. because the first phrase has 11 syllables and the second has 15. its very uneven. if you take out 'dusty phrases and' the second phrase would have 10 syllables and sound worlds better.

hope that helps :)


I appreciate the help! I do have some explanations, though. The word "for" is reference to the cup mentioned at the beginning. Also, I know that there a lot of extra syllables, so it seems as if the flow would be interrupted, but in actuality that section has a very rhythmic and syncopated vocal break that fits when you hear it sung. The phrase continues into the next phrase with a soaring note from our singer. Its pretty awesome :-). It seems difficult when just reading it, I agree. Thanks though!

Im trying to finish up the music now and then I will get it recorded with my band. We are working on an EP and once it is finished I will post our myspace url so you can hear this song. It will be easier to understand what I meant that way. Thanks for the help though! It is undoubtedly appreciated.

[drummer1400]

I knows it's been quoted back at you already but,

is really great, it's got such a great rhythm(sp?) already, I'd love to hear it in a song.
on the whole I really liked it, it's not obvious, but it doesn't come off as pretentious either.


Thanks! Im glad you enjoyed it :). This will be on my bands myspace with the rest of our EP in less than a month. I will post a URL of our myspace when its up. Thanks again!

[xsxarexsoxscene]

I appreciate the help! I do have some explanations, though. The word "for" is reference to the cup mentioned at the beginning. Also, I know that there a lot of extra syllables, so it seems as if the flow would be interrupted, but in actuality that section has a very rhythmic and syncopated vocal break that fits when you hear it sung. The phrase continues into the next phrase with a soaring note from our singer. Its pretty awesome :-). It seems difficult when just reading it, I agree. Thanks though!

Im trying to finish up the music now and then I will get it recorded with my band. We are working on an EP and once it is finished I will post our myspace url so you can hear this song. It will be easier to understand what I meant that way. Thanks for the help though! It is undoubtedly appreciated.

haha sorry, i know its always different when put to music. glad it works out :)

[drummer1400]

haha sorry, i know its always different when put to music. glad it works out :)


No problem, im always welcome to constructive criticism ;).

[JimGray]

Definitely not bad at all, but the flow is really weird. Def. interested to hear this.

[drummer1400]

Definitely not bad at all, but the flow is really weird. Def. interested to hear this.

Thanks man :). I can definitely see how the flow might seem a little off when just reading it. Like I said to a couple of people before, Ill definitely post a link to our myspace once everythings up and running on our EP. Thanks for reading!

[drummer1400]

Well...is this one dead? Id really like some criticism from Speedo Model, Overise Fan, and TheCureRocks182 before I give up on this one (hint hint, but in a completely unobvious way)...come on guys!

[thecurerocks182]

Not Intact (An Underground Us)



He found that cup where the Prince keeps his steam.
He said, "Boy, that must taste foolish, but give me a drink."
He regretted these words and for what he had reached,
Then uttered them again with antiquated phrases and broken speech.


We are the symptoms of something chronic and critical,
But the doctors couldn't find it when we cried. <---the flow and the creativity is lacking in this line. It seems you were thinking something, then lost it. Suggestion: But the doctors couldn't find it even with our gaping mouths leaking the loudest shrills. I know the flow is off, but maybe you can intergrate better into the piece.
So, we'll recess for a while, but only for a while,
Then we'll scream louder and louder and louder…. <---this is too repetitive and sounds childish. You demonstrate skills so don't be content with fillers, for every line should be significant.


Save us, arrange us-- in columns and rows
And we'll trainwreck, repair, and come back to blows.
Meet me in denial, Join me in denial. It's nice here…It's nice here. <-----is it nice here? where is here? Also, what is it that you are trying to convey with this piece?


He'd had a taste of something he liked,
And against his will it taught him to bite.
His jaws were worn and gums began to bleed,
So he finally asked: "Am I sick enough for your quarantine?" <---this stanza is good. There are things I would do differently, but then it wouldn't be your piece.


We are the symptoms of something chronic and critical,
But the doctors couldn't find it when we cried.
So we'll recess for a while…but only for a while.
Then we'll scream louder and louder and louder….


Save us, arrange us-- in columns and rows
And we'll train wreck, repair, and come back to blows.
Meet me in denial, Join me in denial. It's nice here…It's nice here.


We thought we were piping hot at this velocity, <---imagery is boring...piping hot? I know you can do better than that even to say it is scorching hot would be much better.
Dressed in our favorite color,
We are white with promise and red with apathy, <----how is one white and red? I understand what you are trying to convey, but it contradicts itself with the succeeding line.
Then skin turns pale as that color drains out of me. <---I like this.
I think I've found my touch, but then again…
We're not intact and we can't make it out alive.


So…
Save us, arrange us-- in columns and rows
And we'll train wreck, repair, and come back to blows.
Meet me in denial, Join me in denial. It's nice here…It's nice here.
All in all, I found myself a bit confounded by this piece, as I'm not really sure what your intentions are. It seems to be implicating something wrong with doctors diagnosis, but the first stanza suggests virtually nothing similar. Anyways, I don't think you should throw this piece away, but it is in need of work, which is to say that you have work on the overall conciseness and coherency of the piece. Hope this helped you out.

[drummer1400]

All in all, I found myself a bit confounded by this piece, as I'm not really sure what your intentions are. It seems to be implicating something wrong with doctors diagnosis, but the first stanza suggests virtually nothing similar. Anyways, I don't think you should throw this piece away, but it is in need of work, which is to say that you have work on the overall conciseness and coherency of the piece. Hope this helped you out.

Thanks for your comments and critique! I will definitely do some things different. Saying that, I would also like to say that a few of the things you thought I should change seem to be because they dont fit your style of writing, not because they dont fit the general ideals that make a song enjoyable. Some of the sections that you commented on may seem below par lyrically to you, but you must understand that I write with music in mind, so sections that seemed to be repetitious (for example) to you are constructed that way to mesh with the music and elicit a certain emotion from the "listener," not the "reader," mind you. Im a 360 degree musician and I enjoy writing a song in its entirety-- not to showcase any one element of a piece more so than the other so that it is balanced and can be enjoyed in its entirety instead of one aspect being the flagship that brings attention away from the other spectrum. I believe music's primary purpose is to render people _____. That is, the emotion, particular and specific to each individual listener, that may be born in any one listener by way of musical climax.

As far as the coherency and what im trying to convey, I urge you to dig deeper, as you've missed the mark. The piece is about the false sense of security that we give ourselves as we continue to make mistakes, fix them, and then consciously make the same mistakes over and over again. After review, I, personally, feel that it is quite obvious in every section of the piece.
Also-- when it says "dressed in our favorite color, white with promise and red with apathy," that is supposed to say "dressed in our favorite colorS" (plural). That should help you to understand that part.

Also, on several of the suggestions you made for changes where you rewrote some things, your changes seem to cause flow and rhythm problems. No offense at all, as I respect you very much as a writer, but on your music you have recorded (which I enjoyed regardless) you seem to have a few problems with flow and trying to fit too many words and syllables into single phrases. Sometimes less is more. Also-- using so many words that are unknown to most is not a good idea if you plan on doing something with your music. They are beautiful words and you integrate them very well, but they also play at the logic of your rhythms and pacing, as well as the "sing-song" aspect that should roll off the tounge, as that is what makes music what it is. It does make for a good poem, though, Ill give you that ;). I wasnt planning on turning this into a critique, I apologize, but I thought id mention just to help you out.

I thank you, wholeheartedly, for your help and I ask that you will please continue to critique my work as I post it in the future. Im a student in Creative Writing and Composing and I could always use a little outside opinion before playing a new song in front of those who decide on whether they should be maintaining my scholarships :).

[lew_1987]

Im a 360 degree musician and I enjoy writing a song in its entirety-- not to showcase any one element of a piece more so than the other so that it is balanced and can be enjoyed in its entirety instead of one aspect being the flagship that brings attention away from the other spectrum. I believe music's primary purpose is to render people _____. That is, the emotion, particular and specific to each individual listener, that may be born in any one listener by way of musical climax.

AMEN

[drummer1400]

AMEN


Glad to see we practice the same religion, lol.

[thecurerocks182]

Hmmmm... a simple I disagree would have sufficed. Anyways, after reading your response and re-reading your piece I can see where you were trying to go with the piece, however. I do not feel that you articulate it well enough, and you often tend to ask a lot from your reader (or listener) in coming to such conclusions. You must remember that you already have a lucid idea of what you are trying to convey, but the reader (or listener) will have nothing to go by; thus, they must make their own interpretations of the piece.

In regards to your comment about form over meaning, I agree to some extent, but in the most part you are cheating those that value lyrics. If you dumb down the lyrics, then you are being condescending to the readers (or listeners). Do not write for a target audience...write for yourself. You must be content with what you wrote instead of trying to please others. Also, saying that you cannot improve upon the ending of the chorus (which I still feels sounds childish) because of how it flows with the music is just simply a cope out. You know you can do better. All it suggests is that you are too cautious.


Sometimes less is more. Also-- using so many words that are unknown to most is not a good idea if you plan on doing something with your music. They are beautiful words and you integrate them very well, but they also play at the logic of your rhythms and pacing, as well as the "sing-song" aspect that should roll off the tounge, as that is what makes music what it is. It does make for a good poem, though, Ill give you that ;). I wasnt planning on turning this into a critique, I apologize, but I thought id mention just to help you out.

As I have already stated, your attitude towards lyrics is extremely condescending. I'm not trying to defend myself, as I agree with what you have said, but using words that are more common to people simply so people can grasp the song is terrible. This type of reasoning is the attitude Captain Beatty exhibits in Fahrenheit 451.

Anyways, sorry for the rant. I apologize if came off wrong, as I mean't this to be sincere.

[drummer1400]

Hmmmm... a simple I disagree would have sufficed. Anyways, after reading your response and re-reading your piece I can see where you were trying to go with the piece, however. I do not feel that you articulate it well enough, and you often tend to ask a lot from your reader (or listener) in coming to such conclusions. You must remember that you already have a lucid idea of what you are trying to convey, but the reader (or listener) will have nothing to go by; thus, they must make their own interpretations of the piece.

In regards to your comment about form over meaning, I agree to some extent, but in the most part you are cheating those that value lyrics. If you dumb down the lyrics, then you are being condescending to the readers (or listeners). Do not write for a target audience...write for yourself. You must be content with what you wrote instead of trying to please others. Also, saying that you cannot improve upon the ending of the chorus (which I still feels sounds childish) because of how it flows with the music is just simply a cope out. You know you can do better. All it suggests is that you are too cautious.


As I have already stated, your attitude towards lyrics is extremely condescending. I'm not trying to defend myself, as I agree with what you have said, but using words that are more common to people simply so people can grasp the song is terrible. This type of reasoning is the attitude Captain Beatty exhibits in Fahrenheit 451.

Anyways, sorry for the rant. I apologize if came off wrong, as I mean't this to be sincere.

Well its just a simple disagreement in style. I am quite content with my music and I dont conform to anyone elses standards but my own-- but you must also understand, that I, unlike you, am making my living doing this, and it must be understood that one cannot hope to do that without making the music, well...music. If your lyrics are awkwardly written so that they cannot possibly be sung rhythmically without forcing so many words into a phrase that its not understandable, then you
cannot succeed in this business. That business is in poetry. I do not "dumb down" my music whatsoever. I write it the way I like it the first time. I never stated that I couldnt make the ending of the chorus better, and I will accept your criticism and try to improve it. But understand that im writing for me. Not you. You've contradicted yourself in a way.

The reader or listener's interpretation is quite important. In the majority of songs today, a listener will make there own personal opinions and those interpretations of the song's meaning will often be completely varying to that of the author's original purpose. Leaving room for interpretation is a common vice in lyrical composition. I gave the readers guidelines, and the guidelines are sufficient, as ive already had this piece critiqued by professionals in my department at school who understood it unfalteringly. While I realize that not everyone is a professional, I wont "dumb down" my music so everyone can grasp its meaning.

In conclusion, thanks for the discussion. I enjoy healthy debate :). Fahrenheit 451 is an outstanding piece of literature.

[thecurerocks182]

Well its just a simple disagreement in style. I am quite content with my music and I dont conform to anyone elses standards but my own-- but you must also understand, that I, unlike you, am making my living doing this, and it must be understood that one cannot hope to do that without making the music, well...music. If your lyrics are awkwardly written so that they cannot possibly be sung rhythmically without forcing so many words into a phrase that its not understandable, then you
cannot succeed in this business. That business is in poetry. I do not "dumb down" my music whatsoever. I write it the way I like it the first time. I never stated that I couldnt make the ending of the chorus better, and I will accept your criticism and try to improve it. But understand that im writing for me. Not you. You've contradicted yourself in a way.

The reader or listener's interpretation is quite important. In the majority of songs today, a listener will make there own personal opinions and those interpretations of the song's meaning will often be completely varying to that of the author's original purpose. Leaving room for interpretation is a common vice in lyrical composition. I gave the readers guidelines, and the guidelines are sufficient, as ive already had this piece critiqued by professionals in my department at school who understood it unfalteringly. While I realize that not everyone is a professional, I wont "dumb down" my music so everyone can grasp its meaning.

In conclusion, thanks for the discussion. I enjoy healthy debate :). Fahrenheit 451 is an outstanding piece of literature.
Yes, debate. I dislike your idea of music as a business. I think if you are in it to profit from it, then you shouldn't be in it, as it should be your affinity for the music that drives you to do it. Furthermore, you are still in school, as stated by mentioning your creative writing class, and it is understandable that music is not you making a living, but you playing music in vested interest. Anyways, I do not feel I contradicted myself. I only emphasized that you make your lyrics more accessible for listeners in order to get a better reaction from them. I understand that lyrics are open to interpretation, which is why people will attach themselves differently to them. However, too much interpretation allows for too much to be credited to the creator while putting more on the reader (or listener). You can argue that professionals in your school's department have deemed it unfalteringly, but for the people who you are targetting the lyrics to it is inconcise. Hmmmm... I do not understand why you would ask the opinions of those still in high school if "professionals" had found it coherent and concise. What are we to them other than another means to lower your music to the expectations of your audience?

PS - I didn't mean to make this sound insincere. I have never debated before, so I thought I'd call you on somethings...hope you don't take offense.

[drummer1400]

Yes, debate. I dislike your idea of music as a business. I think if you are in it to profit from it, then you shouldn't be in it, as it should be your affinity for the music that drives you to do it. Furthermore, you are still in school, as stated by mentioning your creative writing class, and it is understandable that music is not you making a living, but you playing music in vested interest. Anyways, I do not feel I contradicted myself. I only emphasized that you make your lyrics more accessible for listeners in order to get a better reaction from them. I understand that lyrics are open to interpretation, which is why people will attach themselves differently to them. However, too much interpretation allows for too much to be credited to the creator while putting more on the reader (or listener). You can argue that professionals in your school's department have deemed it unfalteringly, but for the people who you are targetting the lyrics to it is inconcise. Hmmmm... I do not understand why you would ask the opinions of those still in high school if "professionals" had found it coherent and concise. What are we to them other than another means to lower your music to the expectations of your audience?

PS - I didn't mean to make this sound insincere. I have never debated before, so I thought I'd call you on somethings...hope you don't take offense.


Please do not ever imply or accuse me of being involved in music for a profit rather than for an affinity for music. That is offensive. Music is my passion. I love music more than you could ever know. It is the reason I get up each morning. I have my own personal preferences, and I apply them into what I write. Just because my own lyrics happen to be in the format of what the general public tend to enjoy does not mean that I should change what I do.
Regardless of the fact that I am still in school, I make my living (college requires money) through music. It is more than a "vested interest," it is my life.
You say "make your lyrics more accessible for listeners in order to get a better reaction from them," when all I have recieved for this piece is praise. I wanted to keep this humble, but honestly, you are my only major critic. All others have thoroughly enjoyed (and understood) this piece, and the "high schoolers" on this website certainly are not professionals. You are the only one who deems it "inconcise." Not to mention the statement about making it "more accessible for listeners" is extremely hypocritical in that most readers would not understand some aspects of your diction on any day of the week. Contradiction.
Also, you wonder why I would ask the opinions of those on this website when I have the critique of professionals available? It is because the people at the university are not musicians in our generation's "scene," as I reluctantly must call it. They are older and understand my piece for its literary merit and the meaning behind it, but not how it fits in modern music. Thats why I ask for opinions on AP.net. I believe you are underestimating those on this website. We're not all in high school here. And for those that are: I value your opinions just as much.
I do not conform to the "expectations" of my audience. My audience enjoys my work and I keep making it. Plain and simple. It's what I love. I love to make MY music. Not yours. If you are asking me to change my work so my audience will no longer enjoy it then you are asking me to perform an action that is extremely counter-productive to my well-being. That may not be how you would phrase it, but ultimately, that is what you continue to say. Non-conformists think that they are doing a service to the world. But the problem is-- there is no such thing as a non-conformist. There are only those who want to be different, gather followers, and are no longer different anymore. I will continue to strive for originality, but not without knowing that it wont be original forever. You should realize that. You are asking me to conform to an underground standard that cannot be underground forever. Nothing can. Success can only be underground for so long, then it must surface and, eventually, wither away amidst faceless replicas.
I am striving to bring originality to the table through my music as a whole (music and lyrics), and I feel, along with others, as if I am succeeding. I do what I do because I love music. And thats all there is to it. No more, no less. Give me a chance.

[thecurerocks182]

Please do not ever imply or accuse me of being involved in music for a profit rather than for an affinity for music. That is offensive. Music is my passion. I love music more than you could ever know. It is the reason I get up each morning. I have my own personal preferences, and I apply them into what I write. Just because my own lyrics happen to be in the format of what the general public tend to enjoy does not mean that I should change what I do.
Regardless of the fact that I am still in school, I make my living (college requires money) through music. It is more than a "vested interest," it is my life.
You say "make your lyrics more accessible for listeners in order to get a better reaction from them," when all I have recieved for this piece is praise. I wanted to keep this humble, but honestly, you are my only major critic. All others have thoroughly enjoyed (and understood) this piece, and the "high schoolers" on this website certainly are not professionals. You are the only one who deems it "inconcise." Not to mention the statement about making it "more accessible for listeners" is extremely hypocritical in that most readers would not understand some aspects of your diction on any day of the week. Contradiction.
Also, you wonder why I would ask the opinions of those on this website when I have the critique of professionals available? It is because the people at the university are not musicians in our generation's "scene," as I reluctantly must call it. They are older and understand my piece for its literary merit and the meaning behind it, but not how it fits in modern music. Thats why I ask for opinions on AP.net. I believe you are underestimating those on this website. We're not all in high school here. And for those that are: I value your opinions just as much.
I do not conform to the "expectations" of my audience. My audience enjoys my work and I keep making it. Plain and simple. It's what I love. I love to make MY music. Not yours. If you are asking me to change my work so my audience will no longer enjoy it then you are asking me to perform an action that is extremely counter-productive to my well-being. That may not be how you would phrase it, but ultimately, that is what you continue to say. Non-conformists think that they are doing a service to the world. But the problem is-- there is no such thing as a non-conformist. There are only those who want to be different, gather followers, and are no longer different anymore. I will continue to strive for originality, but not without knowing that it wont be original forever. You should realize that. You are asking me to conform to an underground standard that cannot be underground forever. Nothing can. Success can only be underground for so long, then it must surface and, eventually, wither away amidst faceless replicas.
I am striving to bring originality to the table through my music as a whole (music and lyrics), and I feel, along with others, as if I am succeeding. I do what I do because I love music. And thats all there is to it. No more, no less. Give me a chance.
I'm sorry you took offense to my previous post, but all I did was integrate what you said into my arguement. Perhaps, these were unintentional, but they were said nonetheless. However, maybe you could enligten me as to why I'll never understand the need for music as you had so kindly implied. You seem to forget that online we are nothing but phelgmatic entities which are up to the interpretation of the reader. I do not know you nor will ever understand your motivations. If you truly are for the music, then I respect you, but I can only think what I read because that is all that is given to me.

In regards to your lyrics, why is it so difficult to admit it. Also-- using so many words that are unknown to most is not a good idea if you plan on doing something with your music. However way you may have meant it, your words suggest that you are condescending towards your readers (or listeners).

Also, I do not ignore the fact that there are people that have gone above high school (I am in high school) nor am I underestimating them. I fail to see where they explicately state that they understand the piece. Anyways, it seems like you need to re-read what I had written. How am I hypocritical? I do not tone down my diction nor do I give in when people call my writting akward. If I were to do so, then I would not only be cheating me, but cheating them also.

Lastly, where do I ever say that I want you to change your music. I haven't even heard your music nor did I comment on it directly. YOU submitted the LYRICS into this forum and I gave you an opinion. Although, I enjoyed reading what you said, it has no bearing in this debate (well, until you chose to get personal). I THINK you could do better lyrics. Does my opinion matter to you? No. You took offense as soon as someone suggested that it wasn't "unfalterable," which I find extremely unlikely that a professor would use such a term for any piece of literature nevertheless yours. The only suggestion I gave you, which has been the basis of your arguemnet, was pertaining to the part about the doctors. If you would have read it all, it states that I acknowledge the flow of my suggestion to be off, but perhaps you could integrate it into the piece. Anyways, your whole argument seems to be the result of your apparent myopic vision....it seems like you read half a sentence and moved on.

Anyways, I will give you a chance...just like I did when I read your piece. I didn't mean for you to get upset. I think I'll just refrain from critiquing. I try to offer people thorough critiques, but apparently I merit for nothing. Perhaps, you can fill the void. No one here offers more than I liked this line, but this line could be better or this is amazing. You are well read, and most likely more intelligent than myself...so, I'll just stop. Besides, the only free time I have apart from school has been critiquing pieces, so giving it up will allow me to do other things.

[lew_1987]

Anyways, I will give you a chance...just like I did when I read your piece. I didn't mean for you to get upset. I think I'll just refrain from critiquing. I try to offer people thorough critiques, but apparently I merit for nothing. Perhaps, you can fill the void. No one here offers more than I liked this line, but this line could be better or this is amazing. You are well read, and most likely more intelligent than myself...so, I'll just stop. Besides, the only free time I have apart from school has been critiquing pieces, so giving it up will allow me to do other things.

i appreciate your critiques man. its much better than just having a one line critique as you mentioned.

[drummer1400]

I'm sorry you took offense to my previous post, but all I did was integrate what you said into my arguement. Perhaps, these were unintentional, but they were said nonetheless. However, maybe you could enligten me as to why I'll never understand the need for music as you had so kindly implied. You seem to forget that online we are nothing but phelgmatic entities which are up to the interpretation of the reader. I do not know you nor will ever understand your motivations. If you truly are for the music, then I respect you, but I can only think what I read because that is all that is given to me.

In regards to your lyrics, why is it so difficult to admit it. However way you may have meant it, your words suggest that you are condescending towards your readers (or listeners).

Also, I do not ignore the fact that there are people that have gone above high school (I am in high school) nor am I underestimating them. I fail to see where they explicately state that they understand the piece. Anyways, it seems like you need to re-read what I had written. How am I hypocritical? I do not tone down my diction nor do I give in when people call my writting akward. If I were to do so, then I would not only be cheating me, but cheating them also.

Lastly, where do I ever say that I want you to change your music. I haven't even heard your music nor did I comment on it directly. YOU submitted the LYRICS into this forum and I gave you an opinion. Although, I enjoyed reading what you said, it has no bearing in this debate (well, until you chose to get personal). I THINK you could do better lyrics. Does my opinion matter to you? No. You took offense as soon as someone suggested that it wasn't "unfalterable," which I find extremely unlikely that a professor would use such a term for any piece of literature nevertheless yours. The only suggestion I gave you, which has been the basis of your arguemnet, was pertaining to the part about the doctors. If you would have read it all, it states that I acknowledge the flow of my suggestion to be off, but perhaps you could integrate it into the piece. Anyways, your whole argument seems to be the result of your apparent myopic vision....it seems like you read half a sentence and moved on.

Anyways, I will give you a chance...just like I did when I read your piece. I didn't mean for you to get upset. I think I'll just refrain from critiquing. I try to offer people thorough critiques, but apparently I merit for nothing. Perhaps, you can fill the void. No one here offers more than I liked this line, but this line could be better or this is amazing. You are well read, and most likely more intelligent than myself...so, I'll just stop. Besides, the only free time I have apart from school has been critiquing pieces, so giving it up will allow me to do other things.


You should most definitely not stop critiquing, as I have already said that I value your opinions. Im sorry for going too far, but it really set me off when you said I was in it for profit when you dont even know anything about me. The reason I said you were hypocritical is because you said I should make my lyrics more accessible to readers when yours can sometimes have the same problem of being inaccessible. I do not believe that I took offense immediately for you having critiqued my piece. I even remember thanking you for your comments. And I am still grateful for your help, as I did not disagree with everything you said. I didnt take offense until the "music for profit" comment. It was healthy debate on opinions up until that point.
Also, there is really no point in low-blows such as the comment about what my professors have said about my piece. You have no idea what they have said, as you were not present. Do not try to send me on a guilt trip by saying that you will give up critiquing. That is just ridiculous. I never claimed to be more intelligent than you, and please dont try to take my legs out by way of pseudoflattery. I once again apologize for this having gotten personal, as it is rather childish of us both to have turned this debate inside out. Weve both consciously twisted each other's words and we have both suffered from "myopic vision." No hard feelings. Lets end this and go our merry ways. I will continue to give what helpful comments I can on your work and I ask that you will reciprocate. Best of luck :).

[drummer1400]

i appreciate your critiques man. its much better than just having a one line critique as you mentioned.


I agree wholeheartedly.