PDA

View Full Version : Wasn't Sure Where to Post This ... So, Here Works


Jason Tate
05/09/07, 03:07 PM
This is a recent blog (http://www.powerseductionandwar.com/archives/the_future_empi.phtml) from Robert Greene (probably one of my favorite authors, and his books are easily the foundation from which this website was built upon).

I've bolded things of interest - and I was thinking this may spur some debate on a variety of topics.

------------------------------------------

On the thirteen hour flight from Los Angeles to Moscow last month, I ignored the various entertainments that Aeroflot was offering, and concentrated on two things: finishing a book I had started on Russian history (Russia: The Once and Future Empire, by Philip Longworth) and looking out the window at the strange and impressive sights.


In the history book, I had arrived at the 20th century and the catalog of tragedy and catastrophe (compacted into a few hundred pages) was almost too much to take. First there was the story of the Russian Revolution, born amid the hardships of World War One, and which involved the wrenching of a country from one system of living and governance to its virtual opposite, in an incredibly short period of time. This was intensified by Stalin's sudden push to modernize the country in the late 20s and early 30s, which created untold suffering and loss of lives.


Then came World War II. In our minds, we played a decisive role in this war, and that is true to some extent. In terms of casualties, some 300,000 Americans were killed, a high price to pay by any standard. Russian casualties totaled some 20 to 40 million (military and civilian), depending on whom you read, and how such things are calculated. The only country that comes close is China, with some 10 million people killed in the war; China has a much larger population, and so the percentage of Russians who died in the War is astronomical and almost impossible for us to fathom.

After World War II came the stultifying years of the Cold War, which demanded the utmost patience in its people. Then, another revolution in the 80s and early 90s, in which the country was yet again wrenched from one extreme to another, from bureaucratic socialism to pirate capitalism. Shortly afterwards the Russian economy collapsed and the government teetered. The Yeltsin Revolution was followed by the Putin Reaction, the Thermidor.


When I read history I tend to focus on the leaders and principal players who determine the fates of millions with their decisions. But for some reason, in reading this particular book, I kept focusing on the sufferings of the Russian people themselves and the tremendous effect these traumas must have on their psyche. Some Russians would know grandparents who had lived through the 20s and 30s. Many would have parents or elders who had survived World War II. Almost all young people would have vivid memories themselves of the troubling years of the late 80s and 90s. For us Americans, history is something distant, something we read about, that plays itself out on television and only occasionally touches our lives. For Russians, history is a constant, living pressure, bordering on a nightmare.


The path of the Aeroflot flight to Moscow was most unusual, for me at least. From Los Angeles, the plane headed northeast, to the frozen reaches of Canada, and then due east, over Greenland. When we finally crossed over to Russia, I could look down at an endless spectacle of white, frozen, empty space, occasionally punctuated by a town. This went on for hours. I consulted my map of Russia and noticed that we were only crossing a small part of the country, compared to what lay east with Siberia, etc. I mentally calculated the voyage to the other end of Russia and how surreal it would be to fly over this bleak landscape for another ten hours.


I grew up in Los Angeles, only a few miles from the ocean. When I attended college in Wisconsin it took me a while to get over a feeling of claustrophobia; the ocean represented release, freedom, an escape, something I could not imagine living without. In Wisconsin the ocean was far far away. The entire country of Russia is landlocked, and throughout its history it has struggled to find access in all directions to the ocean. The weather is unbearably harsh, the landscape unfriendly, the outlets for escape (by sea) not there. The effects of such geography on the Russians must be profound.
These images and thoughts stayed with me throughout the trip, but they were intensified and adjusted by a series of encounters with people and places (and vodka) that made my head spin with some new and old theories of my own--centering on the critical role that environment plays on our psychology.

The Kremlin, or Pure Power: Two days into the trip, I was given a private tour of the Kremlin palace, which is now generally inaccessible to the public. The palace is sublimely beautiful, and this was only heightened by being virtually alone inside it. It stands apart from other such European palaces by the strange mix of bright colors, the endless curves in the ceilings and doorways, and the elaborate decorations on the walls. It was once the living quarters for the royal family and select members of the aristocracy. In the Soviet era, its large rooms became an occasional meeting place for communist congresses. Now, it is reserved for large state functions.
http://www.powerseductionandwar.com/images/32_1.jpg
One expansive room was particularly telling: it had originally housed the Romanov throne and was used for coronations. The Soviets had converted it into a drab conference room, stripping away all the splendor. In the 90s President Yeltsin commissioned a complete re-conversion of the room to the original. This ended up costing a fortune and the man responsible for the remodeling was eventually imprisoned for overcharging. It is a spectacular space, but the gold on the walls is a little too bright for it to pass as the original.

http://www.powerseductionandwar.com/images/IMG_0028_513.jpg
What struck me was that no longer serving as living quarters, or as simply a space to meet in, the new palace was really a symbol of unadulterated power. It represented a new Russian nostalgia for the Imperial past. Later, as I saw more of the city, I would see this nostalgia reflected in other places--restaurants that were exact replicas of a nineteenth century establishment, with waiters in full costume of the period; displays in bookstore windows that were full of Imperial images; costume dramas on television; the new Russian flag, on and on.


This is not a nostalgia for simpler, more colorful days, but for the power and prestige that Russia once embodied. It is not something superficial and imposed by the government from on high; it actually comes from below, from the people, who are intensely aware of their own history and how recent events have humiliated their pride. It is a hunger for power in a pure form, stripped of royalty or ideology.


Russian faces: One day, walking near the Kremlin with Irina Bachkalo--the charming foreign rights chief of Ripol who had originally invited me over--we were stopped by some stern-looking soldiers. They demanded to see our papers. I had to show my passport, complete with visa and accompanying documents. They were somewhat gruff with us. I don't know what would have happened if I had not been carrying my passport. They looked over the documents and let us go.
To Irina it was somewhat strange they had accosted us (among the hundreds of people walking by), but then she figured it was due to me--I simply looked like an outsider, a tourist. I was a little taken aback with this explanation. I have a little Russian blood in me; I have traveled throughout northern Europe and normally I am taken for a local. I make a virtue out of blending in this way. What would separate me and my face from other Russians? Well, she explained, it was not my features per se, but my bearing, my expression. It was different.


I wanted to understand what she meant. In the days to come, as I walked through the streets, I studied the faces. I began to notice what she had been talking about: most Russians had a hardened look; something on the suspicious side, not so open and willing to embrace anything that came their way. Difficult to put into words, but there was a toughness in their expression. And by comparison, I would indeed stand out.


Despite the relative stability Putin has brought, life in Moscow can still be quite harsh. The weather is as brutal as it always has been. People tend to work very long hours, and under much pressure. I have never seen such intense traffic on the city roads. To get from one side of Moscow to the other can take hours of the most mind-numbing, bumper-to-bumper crawl. It makes the traffic in Los Angeles seem paltry by comparison. (The Moscow Metro is fantastic, but stations are often quite far apart, and many prefer to drive, despite the time it takes.) And yet the people do not complain, or even really pay much attention to it. They are accustomed to waiting in lines, to having their patience taxed to the maximum, to doing without the amenities we take for granted--and they bear it with surprising ease.


Because the traffic is so bad, taxis are almost non-existent. They would cost too much; the meters would go crazy in such gridlock. And so they have come up with their own illegal accommodation. You can stand on the sidewalk and make a hitchhiking motion; any old driver will pull up, usually in a beat-up car, and you can negotiate a fee for them to take you where you want. This becomes a source of side-income for those who need it and a cheaper way to get around. With all they have to put up with, the Russians seem to find away around the absurd rules, the bureaucratic constrictions, the painful circumstances of city life. They are tough and resourceful people.


America through the looking glass: In my talks in bookstores and with regular citizens, I found they were quite disdainful about certain features of life in America and the West. They almost all have an intense dislike of President Bush. They find America to be a power that is not content with merely dominating the world, but also preaching to it about standards of behavior. For anyone who travels now to Europe, or anywhere really, this has become quite normal: America-bashing, centered on Bush. But what was different to me was their implied opinion that many things in Western culture reflect an inner weakness, a lack of resilience in the people. This kind of talk is too politically incorrect to be heard in Germany or France.


One evening, I was trying to explain to a TV producer the whole Don Imus fiasco. He did not react really to the racial component in the story, although he was sensitive to the issue as I presented it. Many Russians seem quite enamored with black culture; hip hop and artists like 50 cent are extremely popular. Instead, he could not help expressing some disdain for the pusillanimity of America: why does it get so easily upset over this and that? Why do people constantly resolve their problems or differences by resorting to lawsuits, or screaming harassment? You seem pampered, a little oversensitive, he implied.


This TV producer happened to be a middle-aged man with long hair, who had an intense interest in American counterculture. He could easily pass for an older hippie in America, not some right-wing proto-Fascist.


I heard similar things from other Russians (from all walks of life and social classes) about our hysterical response to the merest hint of a possible terrorist attack; to the whole poisoning scandal in London which seem to them way overblown; to the 15 or so English soldiers who had been held hostage in Iran while I was in Russia, and were treated as heroes when they returned to England. Why were they heroes? They seemed rather weak and submissive to their Iranian captors. They did nothing heroic except stay alive. Millions of Russians have been through a lot worse and we do not see them as heroes.



This reverse perspective on America and the West was strangely refreshing. It made me reflect: compared to our parents and grandparents, we are much more nervous, high-strung, sensitive to affronts. We feel things are owed to us, whereas the average Russian feels nothing of the sort. Their first instinct when confronted with hardships or resistance is to somehow find a way around, to get by, to accommodate. This comes from years of managing life under a totally unresponsive and dictatorial regime.



Russian Pleasures: The Russians love to have a good time. They work very hard. When it is over, they want to enjoy themselves, just as hard. Why did I keep detecting a touch of suffering and pain in all of these pleasures?


The Russian love to gamble, and so my hosts--Sergei, the very wise and creative general of Ripol, and the other Sergei, his smart field lieutenant--took me to a brightly colored casino in the center of town. I quickly proceeded to lose a fair amount of their money. I am not a bad gambler, but the Russians have managed to create a system that subtly stacks the odds further in the house's favor--you can win more than in your average Vegas casino, but the chances are less great. And yet, the Russians love to gamble and do not complain of the odds, or how quickly the money vanishes. It is the thrill of the moment, the chance turning of the card that excites them. And perhaps some guilty desire to lose as well, to be punished. (See page 355 in The 48 Laws.)


The Russians love to drink. The vodka flows with deceptive ease, and you cannot help but get caught up in it. It tastes like chilled water, almost. It is followed by all kinds of delightful appetizers that make the drinking easier and more delicious. The host will offer a toast to the guest, glasses are raised, and somehow more toasts are offered from this person and that. Before you know it, you are staggering to your feet, talking a bit loud, saying things you have never really said before. Vodka is a great equalizer. President or proletariat, it turns you into the same mumbling, bumbling fool. (Of course, the Russians can take it so much better than I could, so six shots on my part would equal ten or twelve of theirs.) The drinking inevitably slides into an excess that turns quite painful. All my vodka memories are a mix of excitement and depression.
http://www.powerseductionandwar.com/images/IMG_0044_513.jpg
I cannot say whether they love their Russian bath houses, or not, but I was lead to one nonetheless, as an experience I had to taste. It was an intense mixture of pleasure and pain. It required five torturous minutes in a claustrophobic sauna, your body and face covered by sweet-smelling tree branches. The masseur then comes in and begins to beat your back with another branch, then pours ice cold water over your face, as you scream, not necessarily out of pain, but out of the sharp sensation. Minutes later, he then takes you out to be dunked in a barrel of freezing cold water, and orders you to put your whole head underneath for a few seconds.
You are then escorted to a room where you lie down for several minutes while the friend who accompanies you there goes through the same traumatic ritual you went through. For those minutes, you feel grateful to be alive, to not have drowned or died from the heat; and you feel...exhilarated. This cycle is repeated a few times (each a little shorter, but the hot and the cold are more extreme), your pain and your gratitude intensifying, until you have survived it all, and the masseur covers your body in Siberian honey, then washes it off. When it is all over, you have a strange sensation of ecstasy, which lasts for maybe an hour, until the drinking begins and you reenter the cycle of pain and pleasure.

I have had a theory for many years about the effect of the environment on our personality, our psyche, our core. It has to do with the level of pressure this environment places on us. This pressure could be physical--poverty, destruction, danger--or it could be more psychological--abuse, neglect, alienation. This theory came into focus more recently, as I was reading From Pieces to Weight, 50 cent's autobiography. As I read the book, I really tried to put myself in his shoes, as best I could. And what I felt was a constant pressure coming from his environment, in southside Queens. He could not go a day without feeling it pressing in on him, in the form of the police as a threatening presence, the derelict buildings, the junkies and drug dealers, the men and women who were dying every day in gunfights, etc., the noise, the lack of private space. This pressure was very tight and physical--the equivalent of having to live in a small prison cell.


This tightness could crush you and your spirit, as it did for many people in his neighborhood. It could crush you by making you turn to drugs and drink, to a life of crime that would lead to an early death, or to just giving up. But for those people who burned with ambition, such as 50 himself, it concentrates your energy and your mind to a powerful degree.


Such types would not take things for granted, would not waste their time, knowing that death is a real presence; their eyes would be constantly open to angles and opportunities (the hustler's creed); they would become experimenters, trying this out or that, not afraid to fail, since they have spent most of your life with nothing to lose. This tight, pressurized environment adds a layer of toughness to their character which gives them an advantage later in life if they manage to have success in any venture. They know how to take risks, how to go at things with intensity, and how to land back on their feet when there are setbacks. They are living on death ground, even after they leave their original neighborhood.


This pressure, as mentioned before, could be psychological, and as I wrote about in The Art of Seduction, many charismatics are people who come from broken homes. This has nothing to do with social class. Charismatics like Winston Churchill or John F. Kennedy or FDR came from privileged backgrounds. But they were largely neglected as children, and felt a great lack of affection in their lives; they also felt alienated from the center of the family. They were ambitious young men, and this caused them later in life to gain this affection and closeness from public life, from the adulation of the crowd, from political power. It gave them charisma and a resilience that served them well. .
The other side of this is equally clear: those who come from backgrounds that are reasonably well off, in which their environments do not present much pressure, these types tend to have a spirit that is slack. Their energy and ambition is never heated up enough to impel them forward. They will try many things in life, wandering around from this and that, but never concentrating on one thing. There is no necessity in their actions. Behind them stands a loving parent who will bail them out with money or affection or both. And this slackness infects everything they do. You can see it in their eyes, in their body language, in the tone of their voice. Nothing is sharp; everything is hazy. We see a lot of this slack spirit in America and to me it is depressing.


Which brings me back to the Russians. In many ways, their entire country is like southside Queens. Their environment is tight and pressurized. Nothing in the past one hundred years has come easy to them. They have had to withstand constant misery, deprivation, hardship. And now, as stability has seemingly set in, and a corner is being turned in their long history, the slight breathing space they are offered has opened up great possibilities.


For centuries their spirit has been crushed by an authoritarian regime of one stripe or another. This authoritarianism might be creeping back in, but it is nowhere near to the same degree as in the past. Comparisons of contemporary Russia to the Soviet period are appallingly stupid and do not take into consideration the tremendous changes going on. These are people who are tough, who can withstand the shocks of the globalized economy, of terrorist threats, of almost anything. This combined with the high levels of education of the average Russian make for a potent mix of qualities that I believe will make of their country one of the preeminent powers of the 21st century and beyond. Everything moves in cycles, empires fall and others rise; nothing stays the same. The future, in America and the world, belongs to those with a hunger for something they do not have in the present.


The only wild card and danger is political: that in facing the chaos of the modern world, Russian politicians opt for more and more control, and stifle this immense pot of creativity and energy that is boiling up from underneath--a subject for my next blog on President Putin, and the political situation in Russia.

IAmNietzche
05/09/07, 03:17 PM
In what ways is his writing a foundation for this website?

Jason Tate
05/09/07, 03:19 PM
In what ways is his writing a foundation for this website?
Power (http://www.amazon.com/48-Laws-Power-Robert-Greene/dp/0140280197/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-2083961-0072050?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178749125&sr=8-2) and War (http://www.amazon.com/33-Strategies-War-Robert-Greene/dp/0670034576/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/002-2083961-0072050?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178749125&sr=8-3) and Seduction (http://www.amazon.com/Art-Seduction-Robert-Greene/dp/1861977697/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/002-2083961-0072050?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178749125&sr=8-4).

nfggc10
05/09/07, 05:22 PM
Great post. I researched some of this country's quality of life statistics and our rank in the world. It's disgusting to learn that we're 50th to 90th in many stats and yet most people here think this is the best country in the world. I'm really hoping a movement comes along soon that will sweep into government and start looking at countries who have progressive models for moving this nation into the future rather than using the same corrupted one that will continue to lead us down this dangerous path.

thejetstolehome
05/09/07, 05:24 PM
where did you find those stats? i'd love to see them.

nfggc10
05/09/07, 05:28 PM
where did you find those stats? i'd love to see them.I'll try and find them again since it's been a couple weeks. I was actually watching something with Bill Maher and he mentioned a couple of them and I was so shocked that I looked up more of them.

thejetstolehome
05/09/07, 05:36 PM
I'll try and find them again since it's been a couple weeks. I was actually watching something with Bill Maher and he mentioned a couple of them and I was so shocked that I looked up more of them.

ah, okay. thanks a lot.

i wish i still had HBO at home. i love Bill Maher's show.

nfggc10
05/09/07, 05:39 PM
ah, okay. thanks a lot.

i wish i still had HBO at home. i love Bill Maher's show.Yeah I've been watching his shows on youtube since they're always put up in their entirety. So many people despise him but that just proves his point as to how far behind the rest of the progressive world this country is in its views/beliefs.

trindaddy
05/09/07, 05:53 PM
where did you find those stats? i'd love to see them.


try the world bank site (http://econ.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTDEC/0,,menuPK:476823%7EpagePK:64165236% 7EpiPK:64165141%7EtheSitePK:469372, 00.html)

nfggc10
05/09/07, 06:01 PM
try the world bank site (http://econ.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTDEC/0,,menuPK:476823%7EpagePK:64165236% 7EpiPK:64165141%7EtheSitePK:469372, 00.html)

Yeah that was on of the first sites I used. It's a bit time consuming going through all the rankings but you still get the same effect. I've actually been on forums discussing this and you'd be surprised how many people claim this is one of the worst forms of propaganda which is absurd. I just don't understand why people continue to believe the bullshit people have been told for so long about America being the best country in the world but that hasn't been the case for at least a decade and the situation is only getting worse. And to the faithful right wingers who don't believe this, the appropriate response is not "well why don't you move to which ever nation is #1" but rather let's start making the necessary plans to get back in the right direction. No one can just sit back now and have the blind faith that we'll pull out of this when nothing is being drastically changed. There's so many great models for environmental preservation and national health care systems that we could be imitating and yet we choose to ignore them.

trindaddy
05/09/07, 06:14 PM
Yeah that was on of the first sites I used. It's a bit time consuming going through all the rankings but you still get the same effect. I've actually been on forums discussing this and you'd be surprised how many people claim this is one of the worst forms of propaganda which is absurd. I just don't understand why people continue to believe the bullshit people have been told for so long about America being the best country in the world but that hasn't been the case for at least a decade and the situation is only getting worse. And to the faithful right wingers who don't believe this, the appropriate response is not "well why don't you move to which ever nation is #1" but rather let's start making the necessary plans to get back in the right direction. No one can just sit back now and have the blind faith that we'll pull out of this when nothing is being drastically changed. There's so many great models for environmental preservation and national health care systems that we could be imitating and yet we choose to ignore them.



i know what you mean. we went over the many facts in our child development class, and in our geography of developing countries class. as an education major im particularly passionate about the low quality of education, and the low funding for education in the states.

i'm trying to find the other site my prof gave us. it was so much better, but i think i wrote the website down on the paper i turned in.

nfggc10
05/09/07, 06:27 PM
i know what you mean. we went over the many facts in our child development class, and in our geography of developing countries class. as an education major im particularly passionate about the low quality of education, and the low funding for education in the states.

i'm trying to find the other site my prof gave us. it was so much better, but i think i wrote the website down on the paper i turned in.Yeah I found some really good stuff while I was doing research for my International Econ. Development class but I deleted all of my sources. I would also love to see more funding and attention given to education. I would also like to see teachers give more attention to facets of the Economic and Human Development Index and which parts this country needs to improve on instead of just preaching the same "America is perfect" attitude which has contributed to the complacency being shown.

Love As Arson
05/09/07, 06:39 PM
I agree with many of his points. Specifically, the contention that complacency will ultimately lead to the downfall of empires, and hoist up a new generation of leading powers. That is, if the current model of world politics remains at all the same; because, just as empires shift, the way in which we relate to one another does as well.

Jason Tate
05/10/07, 02:17 AM
I agree with many of his points. Specifically, the contention that complacency will ultimately lead to the downfall of empires, and hoist up a new generation of leading powers. That is, if the current model of world politics remains at all the same; because, just as empires shift, the way in which we relate to one another does as well.
I feel that daily we see these shifts coming full circle. It's disheartening to see how, not only America is looked upon by others abroad, but how America itself is now looked upon domestically.

It's led me to think about human nature a lot recently ... and I don't like the conclusions I've been coming to.

trindaddy
05/10/07, 03:18 AM
I feel that daily we see these shifts coming full circle. It's disheartening to see how, not only America is looked upon by others abroad, but how America itself is now looked upon domestically.

It's led me to think about human nature a lot recently ... and I don't like the conclusions I've been coming to.


I know what you're getting at. when i was younger i always thought that america was the best at everything, and loved by all except maybe the middle east. as each day passes by and i get older and read and see more, i notice how thats never really been true, and is getting further away from my childhood fantasy. almost 3/4ths those living in this country do not even like where this country is going or how its being ran, why wouldn't that percentage be the same if not worse anywhere else in the world? this article only helps confirm my feelings even more, and make me want to dig deeper into this topic.

nfggc10
05/10/07, 05:28 AM
I know what you're getting at. when i was younger i always thought that america was the best at everything, and loved by all except maybe the middle east. as each day passes by and i get older and read and see more, i notice how thats never really been true, and is getting further away from my childhood fantasy. almost 3/4ths those living in this country do not even like where this country is going or how its being ran, why wouldn't that percentage be the same if not worse anywhere else in the world? this article only helps confirm my feelings even more, and make me want to dig deeper into this topic.Agreed. Unfortunately, we've gotten caught up in our own arrogance for so long that it's stopped us from progressing and adapting to the changing world. Instead, we're trying to force our own flawed beliefs/government philosophies on the rest of the world when we should be looking inward and seeing how much is wrong here.

luvhungry
05/22/07, 03:45 AM
"The future, in America and the world, belongs to those with a hunger for something they do not have in the present."

You cannot be serious. Whatever happened to "All who gain power are afraid to lose it?" God i love Star Wars.

selftitled85
05/22/07, 07:59 AM
being someone who has been to russia and also being someone who is able to pass as an arab when i am tan and bearded...going to russia was an exhilarating but at times nervous time.

i went the summer of 05 for 3 weeks and hit moscow, st petersburg, and a small town in the south by the caucases called pyatigorsk (where more people stared at me)


russia is the most beautiful place i have ever been. their scenery is breathtaking and all the buildings in the city all have this incredible individual beauty to them.

that said...the russian people overall are very smart with a good portion of them knowing english and being somewhat up to date on events in the world.

that said...i do not agree with the writer that russians work hard and drink harder. the fact is i have never seen so many lazy people in my life. the students did not work insanely hard...the actual people were more materialistic than most rich americans...and once they believe something it is almost impossible to change it.


BUT...what the author failed to realize is the russian sense of history. when you are a communist nation you are bred to feel nationalist pride and love everything that makes your country great. once communism was defeated...that sense of history stayed with the population. i talked with many russian students when i was there. and they all agreed that even though it was a little over the top...they like having the ability to keep their history from the 1500-1600s still around.

Brett9
05/22/07, 06:58 PM
Agreed. Unfortunately, we've gotten caught up in our own arrogance for so long that it's stopped us from progressing and adapting to the changing world. Instead, we're trying to force our own flawed beliefs/government philosophies on the rest of the world when we should be looking inward and seeing how much is wrong here.
So do you believe that the US should alter our philosophies and foundations merely for the sake of "adapting to the changing world"?

Love As Arson
05/22/07, 09:00 PM
So do you believe that the US should alter our philosophies and foundations merely for the sake of "adapting to the changing world"?
It is not as though the the philosophies of the US were formed independently of that which was going on in the world.

Shatter590
05/22/07, 10:22 PM
i have a very love/hate relationship with this country. on the one hand, the history and foundations upon which it was founded were just, right and, pardon the pun, revolutionary. For all intents and pruposes, the founding fathers had no real idea how to form or run a country, just the ideal for freedom from an imperial power. it took them two tries to get something working (anyone remember the horribly designed articles of confederation, which left out a uniform national currency?), and even then another hundred or so years to get it working smoothly (also known as the civil war/reconstruction, which for the most part put the country on track. not to say it was justified or that reconstructionism wasnt flawed, because lord knows it was, but it at least united and even strengthened the federal government and got everyone on the same page, so to speak). in all thing, the united states has had huge trials and upheavals, while not that of a place like russia, still proportionately serious given the relative youth of the nation. with this I agree and respect, as it shows american will (or perhaps sheer stubbornness) and pride and the desire to not back down.

but by the same token, the relative youth of the nation also shows itself in temperment. sometimes, for lack of a better analogy, the US acts like a teenager. very brash, very loud, and sometimes very arrogant. especially of late, it gets the sense that it knows everything without knowing much of anything. england is 1000 years old. so is russia, germany and france. china is far older. and it can be seen in how the governments work. america is barely 1/5 that age, and yet the rapid rise to prominence, while at one point a testament to the proactive and idealistic nature of americans, also is its greatest detractor.

but then again, thats just how i see it. i know for a fact others see it differently.

Jason Tate
05/22/07, 11:14 PM
being someone who has been to russia and also being someone who is able to pass as an arab when i am tan and bearded...going to russia was an exhilarating but at times nervous time.

i went the summer of 05 for 3 weeks and hit moscow, st petersburg, and a small town in the south by the caucases called pyatigorsk (where more people stared at me)


russia is the most beautiful place i have ever been. their scenery is breathtaking and all the buildings in the city all have this incredible individual beauty to them.

that said...the russian people overall are very smart with a good portion of them knowing english and being somewhat up to date on events in the world.

that said...i do not agree with the writer that russians work hard and drink harder. the fact is i have never seen so many lazy people in my life. the students did not work insanely hard...the actual people were more materialistic than most rich americans...and once they believe something it is almost impossible to change it.


BUT...what the author failed to realize is the russian sense of history. when you are a communist nation you are bred to feel nationalist pride and love everything that makes your country great. once communism was defeated...that sense of history stayed with the population. i talked with many russian students when i was there. and they all agreed that even though it was a little over the top...they like having the ability to keep their history from the 1500-1600s still around.
He's a history author ... hahaha ... I think he gets the "history" of the country.

selftitled85
05/23/07, 07:06 AM
He's a history author ... hahaha ... I think he gets the "history" of the country.

it justs seems like he doesnt understand why they love their history.

nfggc10
05/23/07, 07:23 AM
So do you believe that the US should alter our philosophies and foundations merely for the sake of "adapting to the changing world"?Apparently you've never heard the expression: "either you grow or you die." It applies as much to businesses as it does to a nation. Many of our country's foundations are outdated and our stubbornness to accept change is holding us back. Only people that are either oblivious to what's been going on here or are blinded by their religious beliefs believe this country has been/is headed in the right direction.

nfggc10
05/23/07, 07:27 AM
i have a very love/hate relationship with this country. on the one hand, the history and foundations upon which it was founded were just, right and, pardon the pun, revolutionary. For all intents and pruposes, the founding fathers had no real idea how to form or run a country, just the ideal for freedom from an imperial power. it took them two tries to get something working (anyone remember the horribly designed articles of confederation, which left out a uniform national currency?), and even then another hundred or so years to get it working smoothly (also known as the civil war/reconstruction, which for the most part put the country on track. not to say it was justified or that reconstructionism wasnt flawed, because lord knows it was, but it at least united and even strengthened the federal government and got everyone on the same page, so to speak). in all thing, the united states has had huge trials and upheavals, while not that of a place like russia, still proportionately serious given the relative youth of the nation. with this I agree and respect, as it shows american will (or perhaps sheer stubbornness) and pride and the desire to not back down.

but by the same token, the relative youth of the nation also shows itself in temperment. sometimes, for lack of a better analogy, the US acts like a teenager. very brash, very loud, and sometimes very arrogant. especially of late, it gets the sense that it knows everything without knowing much of anything. england is 1000 years old. so is russia, germany and france. china is far older. and it can be seen in how the governments work. america is barely 1/5 that age, and yet the rapid rise to prominence, while at one point a testament to the proactive and idealistic nature of americans, also is its greatest detractor.

but then again, thats just how i see it. i know for a fact others see it differently.I agree and I would even add that teenage sense of invincibility, even after 9/11, to the list as one of your greatest faults.

Brett9
05/23/07, 09:18 AM
Sorry Tate - I know this is going slightly off topic from the thread, but I just wanna respond to this:
Apparently you've never heard the expression: "either you grow or you die." It applies as much to businesses as it does to a nation. Many of our country's foundations are outdated and our stubbornness to accept change is holding us back. Only people that are either oblivious to what's been going on here or are blinded by their religious beliefs believe this country has been/is headed in the right direction.
I have heard that expression, and completely agree with it, actually. But what you are talking about - philosophies and traditions - are not necessarily subject to such right/wrong qualifiers as you seem to be suggesting. In other words, you say that "Many of our country's foundations are outdated..." - outdated according to who? According to you? According to the rest of the world? And who is to say once something becomes "outdated"? As much as you believe that our foundations are outdated, there are just as many Americans (in fact, more Americans - whether you choose to admit it or not) who believe that our country's foundations are the REASON that our country is so great.

What does it say about a country (or a business, or a person) which is so conforming to "world opinion" that it would change its very foundations in order to "fit in with the crowd"? Think about what you're saying - that because the "rest of the world" may be changing their viewpoints, traditions, and foundations, that the US should do the same? I think that's an extremely dangerous point of view. If a country does not have its foundation, what does it have?

Basically - I'm just pointing out that just because you believe that our country's foundations are "outdated", does not mean that they are. And trust me, I'm FAR from oblivious to what's going on here, and am DEFINITELY not "blinded" by my religious beliefs. I'm just a person who doesn't believe in "going with the flow" for the sake of it. I've got principles, and I would never change them because of other peoples "opinions". I don't believe that our country ever should, either.

I'm just curious - when you talk about our foundations being "outdated", which foundation(s) in particular are you talking about? I'm not asking to be an asshole...I just want to know which ones you are speaking of specifically.

nfggc10
05/23/07, 03:43 PM
Sorry Tate - I know this is going slightly off topic from the thread, but I just wanna respond to this:

I have heard that expression, and completely agree with it, actually. But what you are talking about - philosophies and traditions - are not necessarily subject to such right/wrong qualifiers as you seem to be suggesting. In other words, you say that "Many of our country's foundations are outdated..." - outdated according to who? According to you? According to the rest of the world? And who is to say once something becomes "outdated"? As much as you believe that our foundations are outdated, there are just as many Americans (in fact, more Americans - whether you choose to admit it or not) who believe that our country's foundations are the REASON that our country is so great.

What does it say about a country (or a business, or a person) which is so conforming to "world opinion" that it would change its very foundations in order to "fit in with the crowd"? Think about what you're saying - that because the "rest of the world" may be changing their viewpoints, traditions, and foundations, that the US should do the same? I think that's an extremely dangerous point of view. If a country does not have its foundation, what does it have?

Basically - I'm just pointing out that just because you believe that our country's foundations are "outdated", does not mean that they are. And trust me, I'm FAR from oblivious to what's going on here, and am DEFINITELY not "blinded" by my religious beliefs. I'm just a person who doesn't believe in "going with the flow" for the sake of it. I've got principles, and I would never change them because of other peoples "opinions". I don't believe that our country ever should, either.

I'm just curious - when you talk about our foundations being "outdated", which foundation(s) in particular are you talking about? I'm not asking to be an asshole...I just want to know which ones you are speaking of specifically.Many of our social policies are outdated such as equality/civil rights. Our healthcare system is a complete joke and we're failing to look to some European countries who have much better models. Viewing something as outdated is obviously a point of view. But as you say most disagree with me yet they are the ones blind to how poorly some of our laws/policies are functioning. I don't really get your point about how it's wrong to "conform." This country was founded upon gathering what, at the time, were viewed as the better grouping of models gathered from around the world on various issues/laws and what would work here. And when certain things aren't working you have to change them, regardless of how elitist some people are in their views towards this country. It just sounds weird to me that you sound as if this country is perfect and there's nothing we can learn from countries who have better systems in certain areas than we do.

nfggc10
05/23/07, 04:00 PM
America takes capitalism and the free market too far.

That is basically the cause of all its social problems or issues.and because in our view:
welfare of corporations/economy >>>>>>> welfare of citizens

Jason Tate
06/05/07, 01:55 AM
Part 2 was just posted.



Several days into my trip, I had a meeting with Vladmir Zhirinovsky, one of the most famous, and infamous Russian politicians of the past twenty years. In 1990 he founded the Liberal Democrat Party (LDPR), the first real independent political opposition to the Communists. In the 1993 parliamentary elections, the LDPR gained about 23% of the vote. Zhirinovsky had positioned himself as a kind of Huey Long of Russian politics, with a comic touch. He once promised to give out free vodka to one and all if he were elected president.
He is an unapologetic nationalist, who wants to remake Russia into an independent superpower. In 1994 he ran for President against Boris Yeltsin and the powers that be were frightened of him enough to orchestrate a powerful advertising campaign against him and the communists who were Yeltsin's main rivals. Zhirinovsky lost and has since seen his power and popularity dwindle, although he and his party continue to garner a big enough share of the vote to remain as a force in the Duma (the Russian parliament).
He is a walking contradiction. He is half Jewish, but often spouts anti-Semitic remarks. He is quite intelligent, very well-educated (his knowledge of literature and history far exceeds that of your average American politician), yet his nationalism often rings crude and demagogic. He was good friends with Saddam Hussein and he is proud of this.
He is an aspiring actor and musician (he recently recorded some hip hop songs he wrote), and he happily engages in very public fights with other politicians, sometimes coming to blows with them (on one famous occasion throwing orange juice in the face of a rival). Some see him as a buffoon, many see him as quite lovable and embodying something very Russian. He happens to admire my books, and so a meeting was set up in his offices in the Duma.
In person, he was as I had imagined. Larger than life (physically and personality wise), he struck me as the kind of politician you might have met in 19th century America. As soon as the "meeting" began, he launched into a two-hour monologue, broken up only by the constant puffs on his cigars that he chain-smoked, the breakneck translations of my interpreter who tried to keep up with him, and my own occasional comments. His politics veered left and right. At one moment he sounded like Noam Chomsky as he dissected American foreign policy; at another moment he sounded like Pat Buchanan (with whom he is friends), as he railed against the immigrants who he thinks are ruining Russia.
He wore his emotions on his sleeve. In America, political appeals to emotions tend to be rather subtle and expressed through codes. Karl Rove likes to find emotional hot-buttons embedded in certain words, like the often used "liberal," associated with words such as taxes, or around issues like abortion. Using these coded words protects the politician from seeming too obvious in his demagoguery; he can have plausible deniability: "Well, I never meant it that way." These forms of manipulation are insidious and are on the left and right, also used by the politically correct on both sides.

http://www.powerseductionandwar.com/archives/upload/2007/06/green_31_a.jpg

Zhirinovsky is a relic of an era when demagoguery was more open, more obvious and quite theatrical. It reveals to me how primitive in many ways Russian politics can seem, although this primitiveness is charming and appealing. It comes from a leader who wants to infect you with his own emotions, rather than heat you up with veiled language and codes. On the charming side, it brings to mind a kind of latter-day Andrew Jackson, on the dark side, it can veer into something Hitlerian.
Zhirinovsky had many interesting things to say about the state of Russia. He was horribly frank in his analysis of the power politics going on, much of which was not very complimentary to President Putin and his team, although it must be said Zhirinovsky painted everyone with the same dark brush stroke.
Communism never went away, he explained. The same nomenklatura runs things now. Anyway, Communism as it had evolved by the 1980s was no longer communism, but a crude form of power, all of which was based on personal connections. In a country without elections, without quantifiable standards of judging a politician, pure politics took over. What mattered were your connections, your skills as a courtier, as an intriguer. With the fall of the Soviet Empire, this was merely transferred to the new order. It is an interconnected system of relationships, like extended families. Like the Mafia, I interjected. He agreed with this.
Instead of focusing on the voters, on the electorate, a politician focuses on these connections and works them as best he can. When it comes time for elections, everything is thrown into massive PR campaigns that are very emotional and crude. In such a system, there is a disconnect between the politicians and the people, and this gap is filled in with marketing and seduction.
Everyone in Russia is tainted by the past. This would include the political opposition led by Garry Kasparov and the Other Russia. This would include the famous Russian exiles in London. They are all clamoring for power, and don't think for one moment about the future of the country.
What struck me in all this was not so much the content, which was startling enough, but who was saying it. This is a man who regularly lauds President Putin in public, even went so far as to propose in the Duma the altering of the constitution so he could run for a third term. He could not possibly exclude himself from the characters he was criticizing, and I don't think he would. Later on, his analysis of American foreign policy was equally insightful and biting, mixed in with some errant nonsense, such as the idiotic notion that 9/11 was an inside job.
What we are dealing with here is a vast cultural difference. We are so used to the style of politicking in our country that we can only see others through this lens. But Russia is an alien culture. Its attempt at democracy is very new and very rough. Its institutions are not grounded yet in the reality of the country. And so what seeps through it all is the Russian character--somewhat emotional, realistic, distrustful, not afraid of contradiction.
Russians are born realists. It comes from the harshness of their environment and their equally harsh history. (It also accounts for the popularity of my books.) They are used to analyzing everything through the prism of power. The American tendency to see everything through the lens of morality strikes them as naïve and disingenuous, particularly coming from the one remaining superpower on the globe. How can America lecture the world about morality, when it clearly thinks first of its own interests, when it is not afraid to use its military to protect these interests? Could this moral lecturing actually be a cover for power maneuvers?
We watch Russia, and see what is going on as a deliberate attempt to circumvent democracy, to assert its power. Your average Russian politician would not deny this, but see in it the hypocrisy of it all. Hasn't self-interest and power been the primary concern of most countries, one that determines its foreign policy, for instance?
The American media does one of several things with Russia: it mostly ignores it, since Russian culture has little connection to our own, and very few of us read the language. When it comes up, it is to emphasize the dark menace that the country now seems to represent. It fills the role of the convenient enemy. It seems to be returning to the Soviet model, and the Cold War might be returning. Human rights are not respected. It is the land of Machiavelli, Slavic style. There is a grain of truth to this, but also much distortion. Hundreds of years of history are ignored, as are the many nuances that can be read in the actions of its politicians and its people, nuances I could see after a few weeks in the country, and which I will reveal in the next two blogs.
Russia is not returning to the Soviet era; a lot has changed. And in the next few years, the changes that are boiling beneath the surface will break open and will confound our preconceptions. Look at how our ignorance of Iraq's history has impacted our policy and strategy, for the worse. The same could be said for our relations to Russia which are counterproductive and dangerous.
As the meeting with Zhirinovsky came to an end, I could not really understand why it had happened. What did he hope to get out of this? Did he think I had the power to help him? Was I being used for some nefarious purpose? Maybe it was a dull week for him and I was an afternoon diversion, an American curiosity.
When it was over, he seemed quite happy, relieved. No American had ever allowed him to talk for so long, to give him that respect. He was used to being ridiculed by the Western press. I told him I did not agree with half of what he said, but I would defend to the death his right to say it. And I had learned a lot from listening to him. We shook hands, then hugged. (No Borat kissing.) He then showered me with gifts: Zhirinovksy vodka, tea, playing cards, and a blue folder. Inside the blue folder was the intelligence dossier on the writer Robert Greene (see below, army props are my own) given out to those in the Duma. It was mine to have, he said with a glint in his eye, as if it contained something I would be surprised to read (it is in Russian).
http://www.powerseductionandwar.com/archives/upload/2007/06/green_31_b.jpg

booyah.achieved
06/05/07, 07:59 PM
you don't think it is? what country is?
God I writhe when people tell me that the USA is the "best" country in the world.

"Best" is in the eye of the beholder.