Should the NL adopt the DH?

[thejetstolehome]

...

poll coming.

[LeftWideOpen]

no ..i am fine with the way it is now. if you were going to make any move though, i'd go in the other direction.

[unwritten]

No.

[Smithers]

yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesye syesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesy esyes.


i cant stand watching pitchers hit. it's so goddamn boring to watch a pitcher walk the 8th hitter with two on, two out, so he can face the opposing pitcher. who wants to see that garbage?

[StuGrimson]

The DH is just a breeding ground for the fat and the elderly, I dont like it. Leave it the way it is.

[nfggc10]

yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesye syesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesy esyes.


i cant stand watching pitchers hit. it's so goddamn boring to watch a pitcher walk the 8th hitter with two on, two out, so he can face the opposing pitcher. who wants to see that garbage?It's called strategy and without a Dh you actually have more of it. That's why managers have such a hard time coming to the NL from the AL. I like that the intelligence of a manager is tested moreso in the NL and my team plays in the NL so I've come to appreciate it.

[livethesounds]

GOD no

/thread

[crit]

NO.

it's not fun watching a pitcher bat, i'll give you that....but the whole strategy involved in it is great.

[we are cured]

no, we don't need any more overweight athletes that can't run, to stay in the league any longer than they have to.

[livethesounds]

i cant watch american league, slug it out, baseball.

[bigmike]

If there's any changes to baseball it should be to raise the pitching mound.

[livethesounds]

If there's any changes to baseball it should be to raise the pitching mound.

word

[thejetstolehome]

If there's any changes to baseball it should be to raise the pitching mound.

amen.

[AMAAS]

yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesye syesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesy esyes.


i cant stand watching pitchers hit. it's so goddamn boring to watch a pitcher walk the 8th hitter with two on, two out, so he can face the opposing pitcher. who wants to see that garbage?

ic where ur coming from, but there r pitchers who can hit pretty well(d train and marquis r 2 off of the top of my head) and they walk the 8th man then they r left to pitch to the pitcher and in some cases it could work against them, strategy is a huge part here

[soundofthebrown]

no, keep it the way it is. If anything, take away DH from American League

If there's any changes to baseball it should be to raise the pitching mound.

agree.

[xshady121]

Ofcourse they should change it! Then barry bonds can hit 900 home runs! Julio Franco can retire and go on social security in the same year! we can have the national leagues version of Edgar Martinez and David Ortiz! Plus, every team will become stacked lineups (on paper) similar to the yankees. it will be an offensive bonanza.

/sarcasm.

No.

[Goodbye Forever]

no ..i am fine with the way it is now. if you were going to make any move though, i'd go in the other direction.

I'm with you on that one.

[LeftWideOpen]

wow.. smithers is really on an island here, haha.

[StandMyBrothers]

No!

[Ambulance X]

Nooooooooo

[ForlrnPerplxity]

Hell no.

I hope one day they actually come to a decision to reverse it in the AL, but I would be extremely surprised if that ever happened. I'd actually expect the NL to adopt the DH before the AL gets rid of it. The players wouldn't allow for the DH to be excluded completely.

[Broken Parachute]

Strategy in baseball is fun. It makes you actually think.

[leftstranded]

it has to go either one way or the other. either have both have the DH or have both get rid of it.

makes it fair

[preppyak]

it has to go either one way or the other. either have both have the DH or have both get rid of it.

makes it fair
But that's what the all star game is for...it decides which league is better...and thus who gets home field advantage. I mean, its basically the perfect system

[youkwalks]

i cant watch american league, slug it out, baseball.
you can't watch a pitcher actually have to pitch to an entire line-up?

I like that the two leagues are distinct....it actually gives meaning to two leagues besides playoff spots.

but "moneyball" is played more in the AL and we all know what I like :)

[leftstranded]

But that's what the all star game is for...it decides which league is better...and thus who gets home field advantage. I mean, its basically the perfect system
sarcasm is so hard to figure out online

[FondestMemory]

i like having the difference between the two leagues. makes the all star game and world series that much more interesting.

i just wish they'd do away with interleague play in the regular season.

[preppyak]

sarcasm is so hard to figure out online
haha...I was going to put /sarcasm...but, I don't think I've ever heard anyone argue that the All Star game meaning something was a good idea....so, i figured I was in the clear

[kbauer]

If there's any changes to baseball it should be to raise the pitching mound.


i will also agree.

the dh is fun and easy for managers and players to be less dimensional but its not true baseball. pitchers should bat like they used to have to. if theyre apart of the team they should bat too.

this is coming from someone who actually dhed a little in high school because i had an arm like a girl. a few non conference games it was allowed, i was usually put in that spot and i hated it.

[looksthatkillbn]

it should go the other way.

[Smithers]

wow.. smithers is really on an island here, haha.

i feel like i'm supporting hitler or something.


personally, i like seeing pitcher vs. hitter challenges. how challenging is it to strike out the pitcher on 3 fastballs? the DH makes the game more entertaining and less sloppy.

also in terms of strategy, there's not much of a difference outside of the double switch. in fact, there's probably more pitching matchup strategy in the AL because of the DH.

[leftstranded]

haha...I was going to put /sarcasm...but, I don't think I've ever heard anyone argue that the All Star game meaning something was a good idea....so, i figured I was in the clear
it was. but i have people feel that nothing should ever change

and that's just not true

[leftstranded]

i feel like i'm supporting hitler or something.


personally, i like seeing pitcher vs. hitter challenges. how challenging is it to strike out the pitcher on 3 fastballs? the DH makes the game more entertaining and less sloppy.

also in terms of strategy, there's not much of a difference outside of the double switch. in fact, there's probably more pitching matchup strategy in the AL because of the DH.
but do you agree that there needs to be at least one unified system

[Adeniz19]

haha nooooo. players should be able to play both sides of the ball if they want to continue playing

[bigmike]

haha nooooo. players should be able to play both sides of the ball if they want to continue playing
Like how Barry Bonds "plays" on both sides of the ball? Please. I hate that argument for getting rid of the DH.

[Adeniz19]

Like how Barry Bonds "plays" on both sides of the ball? Please. I hate that argument for getting rid of the DH.he's out there, isn't he? who gives a shit if he gets taken out in the 8th inning... that's strategy.

[bigmike]

He's out there hurting his team for 8 innings a game. Losing the ball in the sun. not being able to throw anyone out. not getting to balls any normal person could get to. I'd rather see someone like that DH'ing then costing my team runs.

[Adeniz19]

well, if that's a risk a team is willing to take then that is their decision. the point is, he is OUT there. if it hurts the team then that is the teams fault.

[dsmil]

If a pitcher wants to throw at an opposing batter, he should have to face the same thing, rather than having a teammate getting plunked

[Adeniz19]

He's out there hurting his team for 8 innings a game. Losing the ball in the sun. not being able to throw anyone out. not getting to balls any normal person could get to. I'd rather see someone like that DH'ing then costing my team runs.you act like the AL doesn't have it's share of bad defensive players. The top 7 players with the most errors come from the AL at the moment. that is a poor arguement. a rod had 24 errors last season, why didnt they stick him in the dh?

[Smithers]

but do you agree that there needs to be at least one unified system

yeah, since its the only way to get rid of pitchers hitting.


and wow. i am really all alone on this. ouch.

[VoiceoffCamera]

No the DH keeps players who should have retired 10 years ago in the league. Plus the NL style of play is a lot better than the AL.

[bigmike]

you act like the AL doesn't have it's share of bad defensive players. The top 7 players with the most errors come from the AL at the moment. that is a poor arguement. a rod had 24 errors last season, why didnt they stick him in the dh?
You just compared Barry Bonds' defense to Alex Rodriguez'. I'm done discussing this.

[Adeniz19]

You just compared Barry Bonds' defense to Alex Rodriguez'. I'm done discussing this.Are you saying that A Rods defense wasn't questionable last year? Don't make excusses because you lost this discussion. Bad defense happens in both leagues. It's part of the fucking game.

[bigmike]

You clearly didn't understand a thing I was implying. Just because Bonds is out there doesn't make it good baseball or better then the AL. He's hurting his team out there by not getting to balls because he basically has no knees. People wanting that in both leagues is ridiculous, IMO. And you're bringing up ARod like he's relevent in the conversation of people who cannot play in the field due to health/age/etc.

Again, I'm done discussing this.

[Adeniz19]

bad fielding is bad fielding no matter how old the player is. the giants obviously felt like he could still be an asset to the team so that's why he still is there. every sport has players that should of quit years ago so i still don't see what you are trying to get at. it's either you can play, or you can't regardless of age.

[Brownpants06]

I like the AL having a clear cut advantage over the NL and the pitching jump associated with going from NL to AL... but I also like watching a pitcher bat. I'm on the fence for this one

[ForlrnPerplxity]

He's out there hurting his team for 8 innings a game. Losing the ball in the sun. not being able to throw anyone out. not getting to balls any normal person could get to. I'd rather see someone like that DH'ing then costing my team runs.
I hate this argument. If the player is costing you runs in the field, then don't put him out there. If his bat is worth it (like Bonds is to the Giants or Piazza was to the Mets) then you obviously leave him out there. You can't justify, in my mind, including the DH just because a player is a liability in the field. It's all what makes the NL great, the fuckin strategy of it all. You look at the AL, and you just don't see that as much.

[karmapolicia]

Call me old fashion, but I prefer watching a running game, as to every at bat someone hitting it deep to left.

:shrug:

[Scott Weber]

Sorry I didn't see this thread.

Having pitcher bat in baseball is complete bullshit. Pitching is such a specialty position, and to stick them at the plate makes no sense. I've likened it to making a RB who just scored a touchdown kick the extra point. Tim Lincecum hasn't had to hit since he was 14 years old and now he's stuck in the Giant's system, going 0 for the year, getting pinch hit for with no earned runs, 90-something pitches, in the top of the 8th inning, with no outs. I hate it, it takes away from the game. I understand the "strategy" but I think it's bad for the game, an unnecessary risk for pitchers to get hurt, and putting them in a position they shouldn't be in. But everyone who supports a NL team is too grounded in their ways to think otherwise.

[Brownpants06]

I don't even like the argument that it adds so much more strategy.. I mean there is 2 outcomes when a pitcher comes to bat:

a) he is pinch hit for to make the lineup american league ish
b) you get a free out

sure you can argue well when do you pinch hit if he's pitching so well? basically the only time it becomes a problem is in a close game in late innings... when nowadays most starters are gone or should be done anyway. Maybe 1 in 20 times a pitcher comes to the play it is actually has relevance to the game.

i donno

[Smithers]

woohoo. i'm not alone anymore.

it's me, weebs, and drew vs. the world.

[Scott Weber]

staff knows what's up.

[deadstar]

Having a DH takes A LOT of strategy out of the game.

[bigmike]

I hate this argument. If the player is costing you runs in the field, then don't put him out there. If his bat is worth it (like Bonds is to the Giants or Piazza was to the Mets) then you obviously leave him out there. You can't justify, in my mind, including the DH just because a player is a liability in the field. It's all what makes the NL great, the fuckin strategy of it all. You look at the AL, and you just don't see that as much.

Having a DH takes A LOT of strategy out of the game.
It takes out the double switch. Thats about all the strategy it takes out.

[FondestMemory]

Having a DH takes A LOT of strategy out of the game.

that's a two sided argument. having a dh takes a lot of hitting strategy out of the game. but having a dh adds a lot more pitching strategy that pitching to the pitcher takes away.

i like how it is where it's different in both leagues. if it came time to unifying it, i'd rather see eight player lineups than either taking away the dh or adding it.

[deadstar]

It takes out the double switch. Thats about all the strategy it takes out.
How about leaving a pitcher in too long because there's 2 outs in the inning and the pitcher leads off the next inning. You dont want to waste a guy from the bullpen, but you're reluctant to take him out because you want to pinch hit for him to lead off the next inning. Pitchers come out too early more often than not in the NL, but they also are sometimes left in too long. This problem doesnt exist in the AL.

[Scott Weber]

It takes out the double switch. Thats about all the strategy it takes out.
Yes.

[bigmike]

How about leaving a pitcher in too long because there's 2 outs in the inning and the pitcher leads off the next inning. You dont want to waste a guy from the bullpen, but you're reluctant to take him out because you want to pinch hit for him to lead off the next inning. Pitchers come out too early more often than not in the NL, but they also are sometimes left in too long. This problem doesnt exist in the AL.
So far that pretty weak example you gave and the double switch are the only "evidence" as to why the DH is bad. I don't want the DH in both leagues, I want it all to stay like it is.

Also, pitching matchups in the AL are way tougher then the NL. So that pretty much negates your option. Also, pitchers getting bombed out of the game in the first 3 innings happens more often (seemingly) in the AL then the NL meaning you tax your bullpen more, meaning you have to try to manage and over manage your bullpen for the next 2-3 games while your bullpen gets back to normal.

[deadstar]

I never said I think the AL should get rid of the DH.

Also, its much easier to manage your bullpen when you dont have to worry about when his spot comes up in the order. More strategy.

[bigmike]

It's harder to manage your bullpen against much more balanced lineups.

[bduke13]

Definitly not. The real question should be if the AL should get rid of the DH

[leftstranded]

yeah, since its the only way to get rid of pitchers hitting.


and wow. i am really all alone on this. ouch.
i'm on the side of i don't care how they do it. they just need to have it go one way or the other

having a DH in the NL wouldn't be bad in my opinion. but neither would getting rid of it in the AL

[ForlrnPerplxity]

Honestly, they just need to keep it as it is. I think it's cool having a difference like a DH between the AL and NL. Just keep it as it is.

It would be really interesting to see the backlash of NL fans if they ever adopted the DH, though.

[looksthatkillbn]

Sorry I didn't see this thread.

Having pitcher bat in baseball is complete bullshit. Pitching is such a specialty position, and to stick them at the plate makes no sense. I've likened it to making a RB who just scored a touchdown kick the extra point. Tim Lincecum hasn't had to hit since he was 14 years old and now he's stuck in the Giant's system, going 0 for the year, getting pinch hit for with no earned runs, 90-something pitches, in the top of the 8th inning, with no outs. I hate it, it takes away from the game. I understand the "strategy" but I think it's bad for the game, an unnecessary risk for pitchers to get hurt, and putting them in a position they shouldn't be in. But everyone who supports a NL team is too grounded in their ways to think otherwise.

for the record, this i can about guarantee is because he's on a pitch count.

[looksthatkillbn]

It takes out the double switch. Thats about all the strategy it takes out.

and if you think that's the only strategy taken out you have no knowledge of national league baseball. trying to get the pitcher up first in an inning as opposed to the one hitter is a huge strategy that happens quite a bit.

[bigmike]

and if you think that's the only strategy taken out you have no knowledge of national league baseball. trying to get the pitcher up first in an inning as opposed to the one hitter is a huge strategy that happens quite a bit.
You're right. I have no baseball knowledge. In fact, I only got into it as a Tigers bandwagoner last year. I hadn't even seen a pro baseball game before last years ALDS. Is that what it's called? I'm not quite sure. Can you please point me in the direction of learning this weird game with bats and balls and bases. I'm confused.

[Scott Weber]

Considering bigmike is probably more well-informed on the game of baseball than 99% of the people here...

[Drew Beringer]

Personally I just think it should be the same in each league, either no DH or both have a DH. I don't like the difference.

[bigmike]

and if you think that's the only strategy taken out you have no knowledge of national league baseball. trying to get the pitcher up first in an inning as opposed to the one hitter is a huge strategy that happens quite a bit.
Also, how is this different then trying to get the No. 8 hitter to make the final out to get someone like a Neifi Perez for the Tigers, who's hitting 9th, to lead off the next inning? Or trying to get the 9-1-2 down in order so you get someone like a Jim Thome to lead off the inning/hit with the bases empty? That's so far the weakest example of the "strategy" employed in the National League. I'll take the double switch/figuring out when to pinch hit for the pitcher as plausible explanations wayyyyy before yours. Check yourself, son.

[looksthatkillbn]

Also, how is this different then trying to get the No. 8 hitter to make the final out to get someone like a Neifi Perez for the Tigers, who's hitting 9th, to lead off the next inning? Or trying to get the 9-1-2 down in order so you get someone like a Jim Thome to lead off the inning/hit with the bases empty? That's so far the weakest example of the "strategy" employed in the National League. I'll take the double switch/figuring out when to pinch hit for the pitcher as plausible explanations wayyyyy before yours. Check yourself, son.

come now mike. i understand we disagree, and that's clearly not gonna change, but you're saying there's a comparison between a pitcher and neifi perez?

[FondestMemory]

come now mike. i understand we disagree, and that's clearly not gonna change, but you're saying there's a comparison between a pitcher and neifi perez?

he didn't compare them, just pointed out that they're both nine batters. and no matter who is in the nine spot, the opposing team would rather face the 9-1-2 than 1-2-3.

there's still a lot of the same strategy involved.

[deadstar]

he didn't compare them, just pointed out that they're both nine batters. and no matter who is in the nine spot, the opposing team would rather face the 9-1-2 than 1-2-3.

there's still a lot of the same strategy involved.
Yea, but the strategy of whether to pinch hit earlier in the game comes into play for the other team, thus having to use your bullpen more. There is little chance of a pinch hitter for niefi Perez.

[kshtoinks12]

No. Its perfectly fine the way it is. If you do anything, make it two pitchers pitching at the same time from opposite foul lines.

[FondestMemory]

Yea, but the strategy of whether to pinch hit earlier in the game comes into play for the other team, thus having to use your bullpen more. There is little chance of a pinch hitter for niefi Perez.

and there's no bullpen strategy involved when pitching to lineups composed of nine hitters?

[shOcktreAtmEnt]

I like the difference between the 2 leagues. It's fine how it is.

[deadstar]

and there's no bullpen strategy involved when pitching to lineups composed of nine hitters?
There is. You just dont have to worry about when the pitchers spot comes up in the lineup, which is a big part of national league baseball.

[looksthatkillbn]

There is. You just dont have to worry about when the pitchers spot comes up in the lineup, which is a big part of national league baseball.

good point. managers will often hang pitchers for an extra inning in the national league so that they can use one pinch hitter instead of two.

[bigmike]

come now mike. i understand we disagree, and that's clearly not gonna change, but you're saying there's a comparison between a pitcher and neifi perez?
It's a fair comparison. Have you seen Neifi Perez hit in the last half decade? He's not an MLB quality hitter, fielder, or player in general.

And my point remains the same: trying to set down certain portions of the lineup to get other portions to lead off the next inning happens in both leagues.
Yea, but the strategy of whether to pinch hit earlier in the game comes into play for the other team, thus having to use your bullpen more. There is little chance of a pinch hitter for niefi Perez.
Unfortunately, there's little chance of pinch hitting for Neifi Perez but the dude should not be employed. Though, he did drop 15 lbs and looks slim and trim. Can't move. hit. or run. but still.

[deadstar]

Bring back Jason Tyner.

[bigmike]

Bring back Jason Tyner.
He's in Minnesota. Dude can flat out run. If he can put something that gets down in the OF, coupled with Minnesota's small ball, he fucking sucks to see play against your favorite team. He was tearing up Detroit at the end of last year (who wasn't?).