anarchy

[NuKeS]

anybody here an anarchist? umm...i am. hi.:p

[chubb9]

Ok? You're hella cool...

[x40ozx]

Uhhh yep...I am too, but why ask?

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

you're unfortunate nukes, our resident anarchist, evil zach, seems to be at camp right now. maybe if you check back in a week or so, you'll be graced by his presence.

on the anarchist note, i'd love to have anarchy, but i know it wouldn't work, because there would always be people who would want to kill and steal and not help anyone out, where in its perfect state, everyone would help each other out.

[NOFXdesendents5]

I have a realistic view of the world and the human physche, so no, I could never be an anarchist.

[Alex Djaferis]

nah im not...it just wouldnt work (sadly)

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by NuKeS
anybody here an anarchist? umm...i am. hi.:p
Honestly man, were you raised on a tard farm?

[ms y o o n]

personally i dont think it could ever work.. sounds nice.. but yea
(evil) zach is the only person i know of..

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

Originally posted by ms y o o n
personally i dont think it could ever work.. sounds nice.. but yea
(evil) zach is the only person i know of..

i'd be a strong supporter of anarchy, if only it would work. But everyone knows human nature will always prevent it. :(

[x40ozx]

It is sad that anarchy will never flourish across the country and influence people but...as PlayswithFire said, there are too many who would take advantage of it and not help anyone else. Although the world originally started out as anarchy...but see it's OK to be all about anarchy because it's not just chaos against the government, it's also about being against racism, sexism and facism too, sooo....

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by x40ozx
It is sad that anarchy will never flourish across the country and influence people but...as PlayswithFire said, there are too many who would take advantage of it and not help anyone else. Although the world originally started out as anarchy...but see it's OK to be all about anarchy because it's not just chaos against the government, it's also about being against racism, sexism and facism too, sooo....
Um, how do you know that the world started out as an anarchy? I mean I'm not saying it didnt, but I am not certain it did. As far as you and I know there were chiefs and indians as far back as we know. And dont end everything with soooo.... it makes you sound stupid.

[x40ozx]

No, I think you misunderstood me, I'm talking about the world as far as back when the indians were here, I'm talking about the time after the white people took over. As in, when government first started. That's just my opinion, because how else did we get different political parties? People had diferent views of how America had to be run.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by x40ozx
No, I think you misunderstood me, I'm talking about the world as far as back when the indians were here, I'm talking about the time after the white people took over. As in, when government first started. That's just my opinion, because how else did we get different political parties? People had diferent views of how America had to be run.
Explain how that would be an anarchy...

[x40ozx]

Obviously you haven't put much thought into what I am saying. To understand it, you have to really think about it. OK, they would raise chaos over eachothers form of government i.e what they think the perfect government political party is supposed to be. I never said the anarchy lasted, it just went on for a little while. Until both groups eventually just split up into the two political parties, Republican and Democratic.

[Charlito Cafe]

Originally posted by x40ozx
Obviously you haven't put much thought into what I am saying. To understand it, you have to really think about it. OK, they would raise chaos over eachothers form of government i.e what they think the perfect government political party is supposed to be. I never said the anarchy lasted, it just went on for a little while. Until both groups eventually just split up into the two political parties, Republican and Democratic.

Dude, take a fucking history class.

[Intellitard]

Actually, None of you are anarchists. Some of you would really like to be, and i can agree with you. But, realistically, 98% of this country needs a democracy, or, if you want to call our nation it, a republic, because that is more of what it is, as in "...and to the republic, for which it stands..."well, 98 percent of this country is either dip shits who would abuse anarchy, or tightwads who would commit minor white collar crimest to abuse other people in an absence of law, or people who rely on a goverment to function normally. and 50% of that 2% of the nation that doesnt need anarchy could do well with a socialist government, which isn't a bad idea, in a utopian society, which this world is not. But, in a true utopian society, all people could live by their own law, if it was truly utopian, they would have good law. No one would abuse their freedoms, there would be no rapes, murders, white collar crimes, stealings, vandalism, etc. And, 50% of 2%, or, as us mathletes like to say, 1% of our nation is ready for a anarchy, but since that is one hell of a minority, an anarchy would never work in America, or in the world, althought it is a good idea. :approve:

[superheroine]

Originally posted by dep_rules
id love anarchy to happen, but for now im a realist

I'm just curious to as why you would love anarchy to happen and exactly what would be the benefits?

[superheroine]

Originally posted by dep_rules
if you know about anarchy, you know about the benefits

Well, please enlighten me...I'd like to hear.

When I think of anarchy - I think of it as a great marketing scheme the Sex Pistols started and has now carried on into Hot Topic.

[superheroine]

Originally posted by dep_rules
anarchy existed long before the sex pistols. if thats as much that you know about it youre ignorant in the ways of anarchism


That was a sarcastic joke.

I'm sure glad you're a realist.

Nowadays, everything looks good on paper but when you get down to the nitty gritty, it's all a failure.

[DaneTheTrain]

All you that want anarchy are dumbass's. I'm serious, what the hell would make you wanna live in an anarchy society. Anarchy is not total freedom, it is the total opposite. If we were living in anarchy there would be so much crime and violence that we would all be afraid to leave our homes, locked up for fear of being mugged, raped or murdered. Ide like one of you to tell me how that is freedom. In a "good society" as philosiphers of our day refer to it, rules are layed out. Things are predictable. And becuase of this you can do anything you want in line with the law. Therefore providing you with an infitesimal amount more freedom than in a society run by anarchy. But everything ive just said is of no meaning, becuase as we all know, due to the "human predicament" cycle, anarchy for an extended period of time is impossible. Look at every society to date, they all went through this cycle. Tyranny, Revolution, Anarchy, Competing Groups, Tryranny, Revolution...and so forth. In closing, brandnewrock5 summed it up pretty good...
Honestly man, were you raised on a tard farm?
That goes for all of you who think that anarchy is the way the world should be run.

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

Originally posted by DaneTheTrain
All you that want anarchy are dumbass's. I'm serious, what the hell would make you wanna live in an anarchy society. Anarchy is not total freedom, it is the total opposite. If we were living in anarchy there would be so much crime and violence that we would all be afraid to leave our homes, locked up for fear of being mugged, raped or murdered. Ide like one of you to tell me how that is freedom. In a "good society" as philosiphers of our day refer to it, rules are layed out. Things are predictable. And becuase of this you can do anything you want in line with the law. Therefore providing you with an infitesimal amount more freedom than in a society run by anarchy. But everything ive just said is of no meaning, becuase as we all know, due to the "human predicament" cycle, anarchy for an extended period of time is impossible. Look at every society to date, they all went through this cycle. Tyranny, Revolution, Anarchy, Competing Groups, Tryranny, Revolution...and so forth. In closing, brandnewrock5 summed it up pretty good...

That goes for all of you who think that anarchy is the way the world should be run.


you piss me off..alot. you're being ignorant. If you read this whole thread, you've noticed that alot of us would love an anarchy but we are all realists and know that a true anarchy would never happen. If the government was overthrown, there would be a vast, vast majority of ignorant assholes that would go out and steal, rape, kill, and do whatever they want. And we know that would happen, and that's why we don't want an anarchy to come to "power". We know that this world will never be fit for a true anarchy, because there will always be these ignoramuses.

[DaneTheTrain]

Sorry to hear I piss you off, but I really dont give a shit. And I kinda chuckled when you called me ignorant. Especially after you went on to rant trying to prove a point I made in my own post earlier, and you later even copied onto your.
But everything ive just said is of no meaning, becuase as we all know, due to the "human predicament" cycle, anarchy for an extended period of time is impossible
So you see, the "ignorant" ones are really the people like you, the ones who know anarchy will never work, but continue to strive for it. Thats just about as ignorant as it gets. Once again...your all dumbass's...especailly you PlaysWithFire.

[superheroine]

Originally posted by DaneTheTrain
Sorry to hear I piss you off, but I really dont give a shit. And I kinda chuckled when you called me ignorant. Especially after you went on to rant trying to prove a point I made in my own post earlier, and you later even copied onto your.

So you see, the "ignorant" ones are really the people like you, the ones who know anarchy will never work, but continue to strive for it. Thats just about as ignorant as it gets. Once again...your all dumbass's...especailly you PlaysWithFire.

You shouldn't call them dumbasses - I think you're just misunderstanding what they're saying. The impression I got from this thread is that these kids think anarchy looks good on paper but I don't think not one of them are "striving" for it because they know it would never work, hence the reason they are "realists."

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

Congratulations to myself, I have further proven I can not make an even slightly intelligent post when tired. :( :rolleyes:

[evil zach]

Originally posted by NuKeS
anybody here an anarchist? umm...i am. hi.:p
Another anarchist? HUZZAH!!

[evil zach]

Originally posted by DaneTheTrain
All you that want anarchy are dumbass's. I'm serious, what the hell would make you wanna live in an anarchy society. Anarchy is not total freedom, it is the total opposite. If we were living in anarchy there would be so much crime and violence that we would all be afraid to leave our homes, locked up for fear of being mugged, raped or murdered. Ide like one of you to tell me how that is freedom. In a "good society" as philosiphers of our day refer to it, rules are layed out. Things are predictable. And becuase of this you can do anything you want in line with the law. Therefore providing you with an infitesimal amount more freedom than in a society run by anarchy. But everything ive just said is of no meaning, becuase as we all know, due to the "human predicament" cycle, anarchy for an extended period of time is impossible. Look at every society to date, they all went through this cycle. Tyranny, Revolution, Anarchy, Competing Groups, Tryranny, Revolution...and so forth. In closing, brandnewrock5 summed it up pretty good...

That goes for all of you who think that anarchy is the way the world should be run.
Typical anti Anarchist drivel. The "human predicament cycle" you speak of only exists because anarchy is not put in place. The only way competing groups can exists is if certin people are in postions of authority. These positions of authoruty would not exist in Anarchy. Unless you were refring ti anarcho-capitalism, in which case I would be inclined to agree with you.

[DaneTheTrain]

You know what I couldnt agree with you more, and if you had read my post correctly you would have caught that.
The only way competing groups can exists is if certin people are in postions of authority. These positions of authoruty would not exist in Anarchy
But before you posted that I posted this.
anarchy for an extended period of time is impossible.
Of coarse positions of authority do not exist in anarchy. They never have and they never will. That what makes anarchy, anarchy. But because of human nature anarchy will only last so long before people rally together, and create competing groups. Which later gives rise to once again, tyranny...the human predicament cycle.

[the_champ_is_here]

I believe Anarchy is attainable is small close-knit communities. Because, if everyone knows each other, there would be less crime and hatred and so forth.

Wasn't there anarchy in Spain in the 30's?

Also, the blackout gave me a sense of hope, not just for anarchy, but for the sense of the Human race. There was no power here, but everybody was helping each other out. Even driving down a major street with many stop-lights (that were out) people were being courteous and empathatic in a situation where many of them could have just as easily been rude and uncaring.

[the_champ_is_here]

I believe Anarchy is attainable is small close-knit communities. Because, if everyone knows each other, there would be less crime and hatred and so forth.

On a side not, wasn't there anarchy in Spain in the 30's?

Also, the blackout gave me a sense of hope, not just for anarchy, but for the sense of the Human race. There was no power here, but everybody was helping each other out. Even driving down a major street with many stop-lights (that were out) people were being courteous and empathatic in a situation where many of them could have just as easily been rude and uncaring.

[rainbowmafia21]

human nature (or rather, american nature) does not allow for anarchy. personally i think its dumb to support something that has no chance of happening, but whatever. go you.

[PunkRocks]

Actually, based on my experiences in college history classes and of reading all of this thread...the posts you've made describing your views of anarchy are all incorrect. What you all think you're calling anarchy is actually just a play on socialism. True anarchy would mean that no one has control over anyone else, only over themselves. One of you, I do not remember who or where, made a comment about punishing criminals. This is not possible in an anarchist society. There are no rules against it, so how could you say that they did something wrong? In an anarchist society, who are you to say that they did something wrong? If you view them as doing something wrong, then you are not an anarchist.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by rainbowmafia21
human nature (or rather, american nature) does not allow for anarchy. personally i think its dumb to support something that has no chance of happening, but whatever. go you.
what is that supposed to mean? or rather, american nature... thats bullshit. Anarchy is just as prone to fail elsewhere as it is in America...so dont try and dump that load of shit here...

[NOFXdesendents5]

Alright, this is the second time i post and hopefully the last cause this thread was a joke to begin with. That girl is a retard mallrat...

Anyway, to start off, at the begginning of the world in fact it wasn't an anarchy utopia. it was anarchy in the mainstream meaning of the word, it was chaos. If you couldn't provide for your family, or clan, they killed you. If you were weaker than another clan, they killed you. It wasn't very nice back than. Anarchy is really yet to exist no matter what some people here like to believe about how kind original mankind.

For the most part, I doubt anarchy will ever exist. People will always be greedy. There is a thing called human nature if you study physcological things and it includes the desire for more. Everyone likes power, and no matter how cool and "punk" you think you may be, everyone likes exceptance (unless you have a social disorder than whatever). So then all you really need is someone who is stronger than others, controls more land or food, or who has amazing charisma skills (Hitler, Lenin etc.) for a dictatorship to start all over again.

I would like an anarchy to be able to happen. But it won't. And never will unless something cataclismic occurs. Something similar to the book The Stand by Stephen King, in which so many people die, that a people are able to start completely over.

[Alex Djaferis]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
Alright, this is the second time i post and hopefully the last cause this thread was a joke to begin with. That girl is a retard mallrat...

Anyway, to start off, at the begginning of the world in fact it wasn't an anarchy utopia. it was anarchy in the mainstream meaning of the word, it was chaos. If you couldn't provide for your family, or clan, they killed you. If you were weaker than another clan, they killed you. It wasn't very nice back than. Anarchy is really yet to exist no matter what some people here like to believe about how kind original mankind.

For the most part, I doubt anarchy will ever exist. People will always be greedy. There is a thing called human nature if you study physcological things and it includes the desire for more. Everyone likes power, and no matter how cool and "punk" you think you may be, everyone likes exceptance (unless you have a social disorder than whatever). So then all you really need is someone who is stronger than others, controls more land or food, or who has amazing charisma skills (Hitler, Lenin etc.) for a dictatorship to start all over again.

I would like an anarchy to be able to happen. But it won't. And never will unless something cataclismic occurs. Something similar to the book The Stand by Stephen King, in which so many people die, that a people are able to start completely over.


*...and from the silence...a mighty thundorous applause erupts out of no where!!*

yeah, nice.

[rainbowmafia21]

ohferchrissakes of course i know that anarchy would fail everywhere else too. i was just saying that america is full of greedy bastards. lol.

oh and am i the mallrat girl? or is that the anarchy person?
hehe.

[NOFXdesendents5]

Originally posted by rainbowmafia21
ohferchrissakes of course i know that anarchy would fail everywhere else too. i was just saying that america is full of greedy bastards. lol.

oh and am i the mallrat girl? or is that the anarchy person?
hehe.

the mallrat is the person that started this thread. shes some poseur who wants to sound cool by saying she is that thing that she saw at hot topic.

[evil zach]

Kinda like me. On a more seious note, why hasn't this topic died yet? it never goes anywere. It always just turns into people asking about what would happen in any senario imaginable and myself explaining what would happen, and wuite frankly I hate doing that (hence my not being active in this thread). I declare that from now on if you have any question about anarchy visit the faq (www.anarchistfaq.org) or read the book Anarchism: Arguments For And Against by Albert Meltzer

[jgirv17]

to paraphrase Hobbes:


people have one main driving point in their life: to stay alive. every person has an equal ability to kill or to be killed. this is our natural law. when there is no government, people will be in anarchy. but this system, without rule (and therefore without anarchy) would never work. people would begin to kill or to be killed without expecting punishment.

AS SOON AS any type of law is passed preventing someone from killing another....even if this is just one law that says "you cannot kill"....government is established, no matter how minimally. After this one rule is created, a new class to protect and monitor this rule, for the good of the people, is also born. This eventually evolves into a complex society.

Anarchy, the beginning of this society, is therefore one the the main reasons for people to wish to create a government. It relies on an ideal state that cannot be attained and must be protected against.



if you cant tell, anarchists piss me off....its impossible, so go back to your goth clothes and stop trying so hard to be different.

[zach]

You know that anarchists reject Hobbes, right?

[jgirv17]

Originally posted by zach
You know that anarchists reject Hobbes, right?

reject him or not....trying to live without some form of government is impossible. maybe in an ideal world it would work but, if you havent noticed, thats not the place we live in.

people will take advantage of others and, as soon as they do, a system of laws (and punishments) will need to be established. as soon as this is founded, government is now established -- it is not longer anarchy.

if we put all the anarchists on one island they would all kill each other off within a matter of months.

[Unopened Letter]

personally, anarchy is a great idea. But as most of you stated we all know it wont work. So hence the word IDEA. Zach, as everyone also added, is our resident anarchist. If you ever need any anarchist talking to, he's your guy.That is all i have to say.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by jgirv17
reject him or not....trying to live without some form of government is impossible. maybe in an ideal world it would work but, if you havent noticed, thats not the place we live in.

people will take advantage of others and, as soon as they do, a system of laws (and punishments) will need to be established. as soon as this is founded, government is now established -- it is not longer anarchy.

if we put all the anarchists on one island they would all kill each other off within a matter of months.

to simplify Hobbes, it comes down to survival of the fittest, simple as that.

[jgirv17]

Originally posted by yeat182
to simplify Hobbes, it comes down to survival of the fittest, simple as that.

exactly...and when we try to survive, we will, in turn, be forced to create some form of minimalist laws...even if it is just one.

once this (even one) law is created, we are no longer in anarchy -- government is established. so, i guess what im saying, anarchy is pretty much impossible and a stupid idea.

[xnotedgex]

Originally posted by jgirv17

if you cant tell, anarchists piss me off....its impossible, so go back to your goth clothes and stop trying so hard to be different.

im not an anarchist...but i think it needs to be said...you're an idiot...what do goth clothes have to do with your political beliefs...and what do your political beliefs have to do with trying to be different...so you believe in what, democracy...that'd be like me saying stop trying so hard to be like everyone else because you believe democracy is the right way to go

get your head out of your ass and develop tolerance for people who don't think like you do

Originally posted by jgirv17
if we put all the anarchists on one island they would all kill each other off within a matter of months.

please tell me, in your infinite wisdom, how you know this...please tell me, in your infinite wisdom, how you know the personalities of everyone that is an anarchist and they're criminal tendencies..please...i really want to know...or are you just ignorant...like your statement makes it seem

[jgirv17]

the goth clothes thing was a joke...sorry if i didnt make it clear enough. i was mainly commenting on the fact that i think many people buy into the whole anarchy idea in order to sound different... just as many people i know who dress in goth clothes do so solely to get a reaction. i dont know if its the same for you, but ive met enough kids around me who are like "anarchy ahh!!" just to get a reaction. that annoys me. its not like they actually have a position about it, they just want to make it appear so.


and the thing about the island? that was a joke in a way, also. but, at the same time, i believe it is really true.

if true, unadulterated anarchy was "installed" into a society isolated from the rest of the modern world, there is no way it would end up working out well. human rationality tells us that people cannot wholly be trusted. at least ONE person on that entire island would take advantage of anarchy.

when he/she is caught, something will have to be done to punish him/her, correct? so...wait...then that's a rule? oh wait, anarchy? not anymore. it is now officially a government system....no matter how minute this system may be.

therefore, if you were to let the culprit run free without so much as a slap on the wrist (in other words, let anarchy run its course), he/she will continue on his/her path. eventually some people would take things into their own hands (government body, now? well its arguable, but ill give you this one and say its still technically anarchy). what do they do? chances are, something aggressive.

this aggression will now lead to more aggression unless met with some sort of a rule....that means government again. so, lets again assume that government is not established, allowing this group get away with dealing with this other person.

he may have friends...now we have a gang war; a gang war with no repercusions.

do you see where i am going with this one?

i hope.


sorry for being so ignorant. next time i will make sure to be more clear with what i say. i really didnt mean to offend anyone.

[xnotedgex]

no prob...i just didnt pick up on the sarcasm

anyway, i think your theory on the island has one major flaw and that is, you assume that a group of people would have to deal with whoever is hurting others...why not just one person put a stop to it, without consulting anyone, without asking permission...and society returns to normal...there's no established law that would decide he should or needs to do this...it's a personal choice, to get rid of what's bothering you, the man taking advantage of your free society

but i think the problem with anarchy is there would be thousands and thousands of people like that trying to take advantage of others

ideals aren't a bad thing though

[jgirv17]

definitely...we need ideals to have hope in society.

unfrotunately, this is just one ideal that i doubt can ever be reached.

[open mind]

for anarchy to work you'd need small isolated bands of people who depended on one another just to survive,today there are to many people in the world so people don't even know the guy next to them let alone need him to survive so most everyone is expendable and nobody gives a shit about each other.
so anarchy just wouldn't work, unless 99 percent of the people on earth died.

[mistanash88]

Well, I don't believe in total anarchy, 'cause then life would just be crazy. Capitalists would eventually regain power, and then all freedom would be lost. I believe in Anarcho-Communism, just like Rage Against the Machine does. In Anarcho-Communism, the people live in a more or less anarchy state, except for economic laws that make sure everyone is equal, racially speaking, economically speaking, gender-wise, and so on, as well as gun control laws, and laws that protect the rights of others. As far as I'm concerned, everyone should just be able to do whatever they darn well please, just as long as its not hurting or infringing upon the rights of anyone else.

[OverExposure]

Yeah anarchy. Heh.

Wouldn't work.

No rules right? In the beginning, it'd be alright. Then hostile feelings soon surface and the killing begins. The only way to stop it is to "conform" and have a government/hierachy completely defeating the purpose and or point of "anarchy." Others details could be included. But no.

:: snickers :: Anarchy is for the kid that has just found his "punk" roots, yet thinks that in order to be a "punk rocker" he has to believe in anarchy, yet really he knows nothing about it.:approve:

[PubicHair]

Senario 567 :::

George bush nukes irag and irag nuked the U.S. and everyone else was gone to but austraila because ya they don't even need nukes austrailas cool for having no war and staying out of everyone elses ya well after everyone else dies austraila would be left and since they basically life far apart but the city i think they could take the anarchy.

[takingbackrufio]

<sarcasm>Anarchy is so punk.</sarcasm> :mad:

Our society wouldn't be able to function without rules. As much as it would be cool at first, eventually it would get blown way out of porportion and our society as we know it would crumble. It's the sad truth.

[Michael D.]

fuck the anarchy thing. it's ridiculously dump!

[yeat182]

Originally posted by PubicHair
Senario 567 :::

George bush nukes irag and irag nuked the U.S. and everyone else was gone to but austraila because ya they don't even need nukes austrailas cool for having no war and staying out of everyone elses ya well after everyone else dies austraila would be left and since they basically life far apart but the city i think they could take the anarchy.

the australians fought with the US in iraq...

[jgirv17]

^^ haha well apparently PubicHair (it's a good thing he/she has a username I can take seriously) is talking about our war with IraG.....I guess there's some secret war going on.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by PubicHair
Senario 567 :::

George bush nukes irag and irag nuked the U.S. and everyone else was gone to but austraila because ya they don't even need nukes austrailas cool for having no war and staying out of everyone elses ya well after everyone else dies austraila would be left and since they basically life far apart but the city i think they could take the anarchy.

do you come out of you box much?

[nightmaregirl17]

I am all for anarchy but it would never work out in the world. There is no need for government and laws just create competition. The anti- racism, sexism, etc. thing...I am for that too.

[jgirv17]

^^ The problem is that the racism, sexism, etc. that you spoke about creates a need for government. Without government, people would be free to take out actions in hate (due to racism) and not feel the repercussions.

[punkrokbassist]

on the anarchist note, i'd love to have anarchy, but i know it wouldn't work, because there would always be people who would want to kill and steal and not help anyone out, where in its perfect state, everyone would help each other out. [/B][/QUOTE]

WHO ever said this is fucking smart..

[AgentEM0]

I would like anarchy but it wont work because if we did not have a government then there would be no rules or guidelines so we would eventually kill each other