Being gay: Choice or Inherited?

[DaneTheTrain]

What do you guys think, personally I believe that in the end it comes down to choice. Although I think that most gay people have something wrong in thier brain, that makes them the way the are. But just like any other mental disorder, you can fight it. And who knows, as politically incorrect as this may sound, they may even be able to treat it.

[Alex Djaferis]

choice.

[SnowintheSummer]

i dont think its choice, i think its a gene and they cant stop it. i mean many gay people dont wanna be gay, it causes a lot of problems for them. like did you choose to be straight? do you think guys AND girls are hot, but decided to go for the penus? most people are only attracted to one sex, sometimes starting very early (for example, 8 year old boys who get up looking at victorias secret catalogues... but dont looking at naked men. do you think, not even knowing what gay is, that they chose to be turned on by the female body?)

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by SnowintheSummer
i dont think its choice, i think its a gene and they cant stop it. i mean many gay people dont wanna be gay, it causes a lot of problems for them. like did you choose to be straight? do you think guys AND girls are hot, but decided to go for the penus? most people are only attracted to one sex, sometimes starting very early (for example, 8 year old boys who get up looking at victorias secret catalogues... but dont looking at naked men. do you think, not even knowing what gay is, that they chose to be turned on by the female body?)
I think its a combination of things. I belive it has a lot to do with enviroment. Your home life. If you are sexually abused growing up, you are going to be sexually confused, its that easy. Sure therapy can help, but you fucked with some fragile stuff when you raped your four year old son nightly until he was 15. So I can see how that would screw up your wires. I mean just go to your local strip club...those lesbian, man hating strippers were probably on the majority sexually abused as kids, and now there confusion lead them into a job involving extreme sexuality. I also belive it has a little to do with pop culture...call me crazy, but being gay is sorta becoming a cool thing to do... with the constant MTV Specials on gays to Will and Grace to Queer Eye For The Straight guy, it has become a pop culture thing. I mean I remember a few years back when every new, young leading lady in Hollywood was a lesbian for like 9 months...now they are suddenly straight? So I dont believe there is a gene involved...but I do believe that it isnt solely a choice, some of it is, but I do believe that some have actual gay feelings..

[bossydacow]

you are born gay.


if it could be cured, tons of gays would be flocking to therapists in order to escape the discrimination.

[DevilMayCare]

Originally posted by bossydacow
you are born gay.


if it could be cured, tons of gays would be flocking to therapists in order to escape the discrimination.
thank you for taking the words right out of my mouth.

[bossydacow]

what else can they do, but be proud of who they are? They were born that way. They shouldn't feel ashamed. They've come to terms with themselves about how they truly feel and are proudly showing the world.

And how many people do you think are hiding the fact that they are gay? Alot, i'd bet.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by bossydacow
what else can they do, but be proud of who they are? They were born that way. They shouldn't feel ashamed. They've come to terms with themselves about how they truly feel and are proudly showing the world.

And how many people do you think are hiding the fact that they are gay? Alot, i'd bet.
I think they should keep it to themselves...I mean you dont see too many "Straight Pride" parades....why? Because that would probably be considered a hate crime, a slap in the face to the unfortunante gay population....

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
I think they should keep it to themselves...I mean you dont see too many "Straight Pride" parades....why? Because that would probably be considered a hate crime, a slap in the face to the unfortunante gay population....

straight people arn't typically the target of discrimination for their sexual orientation.

[DaneTheTrain]

Are you gay?

[bossydacow]

me? No.

Why do you ask?

[Matthew]

this topic is really not worth discussing. does it matter WHY there is a gay population? no. it just matters that there IS one, and they need to be treated like the rest of us.

homosexuailty is not a disease to be cured, or a disorder to be treated. and while i do partially agree with BrandNewRock05 on the idea of homosexuailty being somehwat in vogue right now, i think that it will still be a big issue long after hollywood has had its fill. besides, it makes sense taht a hanful of popualr shows feature gays. some people estimate that as much as 10% of the global population is.

thats really all i have to say. and Dane why is it that every tiem someone defends gays they have to have their sexuality called into question? im sure that very few abolitionists were asked if they were black.

[evil zach]

Not only do gays choose to be gay, but blacks also choose to be black. I'd also like to add that any body that is a part of any minority is a communist.

[DaneTheTrain]

Haha, Matt...can I call you Matt, good. I understand and appreciate your insight into this discussion. You brought in an aspect not yet discussed on this thread, I commend you. But seriously...and Dane why is it that every tiem someone defends gays they have to have their sexuality called into question
It hasnt happened, "every time". I have no idea where you got that. But the reason I asked was just to get further insight into where his opinion might be coming from. I dont have anything against gays, I'm not a homophobe, I'm just interested in this topic. I think its an intriging issue of our day. By the way...are you gay?

[SonnyPunk]

I think everyone is different...someone can be born normal, but then gets sexually abused and their emotions change. They keep the pain inside and over the years form a sick fetish for it and realize they are gay.
Some guys just find men attractive I guess too. Each homosexual probably has his own story to tell.

[Matthew]

Originally posted by DaneTheTrain
Haha, Matt...can I call you Matt, good. I understand and appreciate your insight into this discussion. You brought in an aspect not yet discussed on this thread, I commend you. But seriously...
It hasnt happened, "every time". I have no idea where you got that. But the reason I asked was just to get further insight into where his opinion might be coming from. I dont have anything against gays, I'm not a homophobe, I'm just interested in this topic. I think its an intriging issue of our day. By the way...are you gay?

Hmm... I'm assuming your joking, but for clarification, no I am not. I know some gays though (male and female) and they really aren't any different from anyone else. Hence my adamant stance for gay rights.

Also, it's not you who always asks (to my knowledge that was the first time you asked anyone), but many people feel the need to accuse anyone who defends gays of being one. The defenders oftentimes do the same, prefacing any defense of the homosexual community with "its not like im gay or anything, but..."

Food for thought.

[DevilMayCare]

Originally posted by evil zach
Not only do gays choose to be gay, but blacks also choose to be black. I'd also like to add that any body that is a part of any minority is a communist.
welcome back and good point

[evil zach]

thanks for the welcome

[MapleLeaf]

Originally posted by cal1082
There's a couple of things I look at . First if it's a gene how would you explain bisexuals. Second, you've heard stories of people becoming straight after being gay, so until they actually find a gay gene I'll believe that it's a choice that can be changed.

personally i think its a genetic thing. you cant choose who youre going to be attracted to just like that.

and being bisexual most certainly can be a genetic thing. being bisexual doesnt mean youre slutty and will take it however you can get it, its not a choice. now i dont exactly have myself all figured out and im not really sure if only a few select labels can really fit everyone, but if i had to go with one i would say im bisexual. and its not a choice i made. in fact i fucking hate it, if i could have chosen i would ahve made a different deciasion. i cant explain why im attracted to certain people, i just know its not somehting i really have control over. so until someone can tell me what it is im doing wrong and how i can fix it, im going to have to say its genetics.

[proeuthanasia]

i'm torn on this one. i used to believe that being gay was purely choice. but recently, i've learned that studies have shown transsexuality to have a connection to the brain at birth. in otherwords, it is highly expected that transsexuality is a condition people are born with, not just some decision made later in life. so if transsexuality is directly related to chemical associations in the brain, who's to say homosexuality is not? being gay is not, however, indefinitely inherited. if your father is gay, that does not automatically mean that you will be gay. there's no way in hell. i suppose i believe it is a combination of both choice and something you are born with. you might have been born with a natural attraction for the same sex, but that does not mean you will, nor that you have the desire, to act upon those attractions.

[proeuthanasia]

Originally posted by MapleLeaf
personally i think its a genetic thing. you cant choose who youre going to be attracted to just like that.

and being bisexual most certainly can be a genetic thing. being bisexual doesnt mean youre slutty and will take it however you can get it, its not a choice. now i dont exactly have myself all figured out and im not really sure if only a few select labels can really fit everyone, but if i had to go with one i would say im bisexual. and its not a choice i made. in fact i fucking hate it, if i could have chosen i would ahve made a different deciasion. i cant explain why im attracted to certain people, i just know its not somehting i really have control over. so until someone can tell me what it is im doing wrong and how i can fix it, im going to have to say its genetics.


if you're serious, my heart goes out to you. i can understand where you're coming from somewhat. freshman year i had real problems with my sexuality. it's just a part of growing up, of being an adolescent. that year was hell though. i was constantly scared that i was going to turn out to be a lesbian. haha, it's hilarious now that i look back on it but there was absolutely nothing funny about it when i was going through it. during about the middle of the school year, i discovered that i was in fact heterosexual. no bisexual tendencies. and you want to know how? because i realized that i was only interested in having relationships, both sexual and emotional, with men. women are gorgeous. i find the female form to be extremely sexy. does that mean i'm a lesbian or 'bisexual'? absolutely not. because i have no wish to have sex with women. understand what i mean? so if you just find women attractive (assuming that you're a chick) i'd say you have nothing to worry about. but if you actually want to engage in intercourse with people of the same sex... well then, i don't know how to clarify or 'label' that. you could always talk to a psychiatrist if you're really worried by your indecisive sexuality.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by DevilMayCare
welcome back and good point
No, not a good point. It is proven that being black comes from genetics, being gay hasnt. Im not saying it is or isnt, you just cannot flaunt it as fact unless you know for sure. Saying you are genetically gay is like saying you are genetically a liberal...I mean, if zach were raised in the household and enviroment I was, I highly doubt he would be the left wing anarchist he is today...and if I grew up in zach's household and enviroment, I highly doubt I would be so politically sophisticated and constantly correct :D....get my point?

[evil zach]

To imply that a child who grows up in a gay household will turn out gay is absolutly rediculus. If one is gay or straight or bisexual there is ABSOLUTLY NO WAY of changeing that. Being gay is not a trend ar pop-culture movment. Its a sexual prefence. Some people are gay, some are not. Just as some people are black and some are not. Nothing can ever change that.

[dead.milkman]

I think its stupid to even debate this topic. You people make it sound like homosexuality is some kind of disease, like we have to find the roots and destroy it there. These people aren't weeds to be rooted out, but members of society to be accepted. All of you should be ashamed if you look at it as a problem.

[DaneTheTrain]

I think if you went back and read some of the posts youde realized that we dont look at these people as a problem to be "weeded out". We accept them and love them. We're simply looking for insight as to how and why people's sexual prefrences are the way they are. Its a fascinating topic of our day that can and should be discussed openly.

[evil zach]

true acceptance would require no explanation

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by evil zach
To imply that a child who grows up in a gay household will turn out gay is absolutly rediculus. If one is gay or straight or bisexual there is ABSOLUTLY NO WAY of changeing that. Being gay is not a trend ar pop-culture movment. Its a sexual prefence. Some people are gay, some are not. Just as some people are black and some are not. Nothing can ever change that.
Has it been proven that homosexuality is genetic? No. So you cannot say that there is absolutly now way of it being non-genetic... however, enviroment has been shown to largely affect the person later on down the road. In traditions, temper, political beliefs, morals...why not sexual prefrence? In psyc class I was told that even the ultra-liberal sigmund freud said that childhood upbringing could lead to sexual prefrence....and as for the pop culture thing....yes. People in Hollywood have flip flopped so many times...because its cool. Not because they are confused...

[charly horse]

if homosexualityis inherrited then someone in the family would have to pass down the "homosexual gene", basic genetics allows that. Someone in the homosexual's family would have to be gay also. Personally i think its learned. now a days being homosexual in female cases is the "cool" thing to do because it's atractive to guys. So many girls "expirement" with homosexuality to atract guys. Some may like it, and then vuala that person could be homosexual. Yea, most homosexuals can't help being homosexual, but as of now there is no scientific proof to there being a homosexual gene, so as of now, we can only say its learned, until there is a scientific break through that homosexuality has a gene, then it cant be inherited.

[Ronin]

Alot of you need to peruse the current research on this topic.

An opinion is worthless unless it's educated.

[BrandNewRock05]

Tell me that there are no studies suggesting that enviroment causes homosexuality....

[proeuthanasia]

Originally posted by Ronin
Alot of you need to peruse the current research on this topic.

An opinion is worthless unless it's educated.


i admire that comment.

[Ronin]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Tell me that there are no studies suggesting that enviroment causes homosexuality....

Did I say that?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Ronin
Did I say that?
No, but for zach's sake...

[Alk3DCStars71]

Lately, I think that some people say they're gay because it seems to be "cool" or whatever.... that sounds stupid, but it's true. I knew this guy that said he was gay, then a year later, he was dating a girl. Maybe he chose to be bi, I don't know, but it seems like being gay or bisexual is a trend to some people.

On the other hand, I have a few gay friends and friends of the family. My own uncle is gay. From what they say, they didn't choose to be gay, they just knew all their lives that they were gay, and couldn't do anything about it. I think for some people, they choose to be gay because it's "trendy", and some others are born gay, only to find out they are later in life.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Alk3DCStars71
Lately, I think that some people say they're gay because it seems to be "cool" or whatever.... that sounds stupid, but it's true. I knew this guy that said he was gay, then a year later, he was dating a girl. Maybe he chose to be bi, I don't know, but it seems like being gay or bisexual is a trend to some people.

On the other hand, I have a few gay friends and friends of the family. My own uncle is gay. From what they say, they didn't choose to be gay, they just knew all their lives that they were gay, and couldn't do anything about it. I think for some people, they choose to be gay because it's "trendy", and some others are born gay, only to find out they are later in life.
or perhaps your uncle suffered some sexual trauma groing up...

[The Nephilm]

I'm too lazy to read this whole thread, I assume it is filled with the usual nazi-ish people saying that being gay is a disease that is learned from the environment and it's a choice and our community of lefty's saying it's some sort of genetic placement, but has anyone brought up homosexuality in animals?

If homosexuality was a choice, then do animals that commit homosexual acts make an active "choice" to do so? Are they mentally capable of making that decision?

And to you kids that think it is some sort of decision, explain why EVERY gay person had a feeling during their time before coming out that there was something different about them, that being attracted to women just didn't happen for them, that they always felt attracted to men but didn't want to admit it? That isn't some fucking learned disorder. Gays have these feeling all of their lives. It isn't something that happens to pop up during the teen years to be "cool", it is a feeling that they have carried with them THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
I'm too lazy to read this whole thread, I assume it is filled with the usual nazi-ish people saying that being gay is a disease that is learned from the environment and it's a choice and our community of lefty's saying it's some sort of genetic placement, but has anyone brought up homosexuality in animals?

If homosexuality was a choice, then do animals that commit homosexual acts make an active "choice" to do so? Are they mentally capable of making that decision?

And to you kids that think it is some sort of decision, explain why EVERY gay person had a feeling during their time before coming out that there was something different about them, that being attracted to women just didn't happen for them, that they always felt attracted to men but didn't want to admit it? That isn't some fucking learned disorder. Gays have these feeling all of their lives. It isn't something that happens to pop up during the teen years to be "cool", it is a feeling that they have carried with them THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.
Animals screw everything. My neigbors dog, humps a female dog, humps a male dog, humps the mailbox, humps a tree, humps peoples legs. They are just horny, they just want to get off, so that has nothing to do with humans and being gay. And I dont think that the "true" gay population fakes it, or chooses it for that matter, but you do have to admit that a select Hollywood-esque few have been gay/lesbian for a while because it was cool, then turned around and went straight. But you are right, the majority of gay people dont have a choice. However, I dont think its genetic. I think that it is from sexual abuse, lack of parental figures, envriometal sort of things. I would guess that a good portion of gays sprouted from alcoholic step-fathers...just a theory though.

[DevilMayCare]

Brandnew, I think that I would like to hear where you learned your views on the world because basic views of people are taught by authority figures. Nobody is born a bigot, a misogynist, etc. anyway, i found an interesting link if anybody actually feels like reading the entire thing.

interesting (http://http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm)

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by DevilMayCare
Brandnew, I think that I would like to hear where you learned your views on the world because basic views of people are taught by authority figures. Nobody is born a bigot, a misogynist, etc. anyway, i found an interesting link if anybody actually feels like reading the entire thing.

interesting (http://http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm)
First off, link doesnt work.

Second, did you call me a bigot? How was my previous statement any bit misogynistic? Explain that to me....?

[dead.milkman]

Oh.... BrandNew. If you aren't the stupidest person I've ever had the pleasure of not-really-meeting then I don't know who is.

Perhaps you come off the teensiest bit bigoted because you suggest that homosexuality is always the result of some kind of negative trauma? You basically state that gays are no different from a violent and demented mental patient. That LIberachi and David Berkowitz are kindred spirits.


Do you honestly think that every person who has decided they are gay was the victim of years of sexual abuse? Or that all gays are nothing but perverts with sick fetishes? Because that would seriously be fucked up, and despite the facade of "the brutal "tell-it-like-it-is" conservative" that you try to put up, I really don't think you believe that.

Maybe environment does effect the sexuality of the person in question. But you seem to assume that a negative child-rearing results in homosexuality, but if someone raises an alcoholic, wife-beating deadbeat who objectifies women, that there is no problem. I've met "straight" people who have much more sexual complexities and issues than the average gay man.

If you want people to take your thesis seriously, you have to stop your bullshit conservative shock-jockying. I've seen the gimmick played to death, and it doesn't advance an argument. It just makes you look stupid.

Now do you see why people may see you as bigoted? Read your own posts, and see what you think. Would you be comfortable saying those things to a gay person?

That being said, I'd like to reiterate that this thread should end now in the interests of true acceptance. The source of the homosexual community is irrelevant. The sooner we stop looking at these people as an issue on a political campaign, the sooner we can start treating them like PEOPLE.

Love is one of the most beautiful and powerful things in the world. Quite frankly, I think we could use abit more of it these days. Do we really need to start persecuting people for HOW they love? No. Lets just be glad that they do.

[Ronin]

Originally posted by dead.milkman
That being said, I'd like to reiterate that this thread should end now in the interests of true acceptance. The source of the homosexual community is irrelevant. The sooner we stop looking at these people as an issue on a political campaign, the sooner we can start treating them like PEOPLE.

I agreed with everything if you said (if not the antagonistic nature of it), so don't think I'm attacking your whole point, because I'm definitely not.

But this is a topic that DOES need to be examined. It's important to understand our genetic makeup and its impact on our traits/characteristics/body/sexual orientation, etc etc.

Granted, this discussion, on a punk website message board, will not result in any answers, so I agree it should end. The people here are fairly set in their beliefs, and no amount of arguing will change the position of either side.

[NOFXdesendents5]

Woah, I haven't posted in a while have I?

Well it is sort of weird with some situations in "homosexuality". Cause there are women out there who have gotten married and shit and had kids and then they decide that they actually are lesbians. Its fucked up. In that case, I think that it is choice.

But in others, like with the dudes, I mean, that shit must be like natural cause how many normal guys want another dudes dick up their ass?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by dead.milkman
Oh.... BrandNew. If you aren't the stupidest person I've ever had the pleasure of not-really-meeting then I don't know who is. Different opinions=stupidity? OK, and I am the closed-minded one?

Perhaps you come off the teensiest bit bigoted because you suggest that homosexuality is always the result of some kind of negative trauma? You basically state that gays are no different from a violent and demented mental patient. That LIberachi and David Berkowitz are kindred spirits.
No, you got me wrong. I am saying that it is a possiblility that sexual trauma causes sexual confusion, addiction, compulsion. Notice I have never said "Homosexuality is NOT caused by genetics" I usually state that, although I dont believe that it is caused by genetics, there is a large possibility that it is, but until further research, you cant be too sure...


Do you honestly think that every person who has decided they are gay was the victim of years of sexual abuse? Or that all gays are nothing but perverts with sick fetishes? Because that would seriously be fucked up, and despite the facade of "the brutal "tell-it-like-it-is" conservative" that you try to put up, I really don't think you believe that. When have I called a gay person a pervert with sick fetishes? Unless that gay person happens to be a child molestor, I have never once though of them as peverse, just different, because they are different.


Maybe environment does effect the sexuality of the person in question. But you seem to assume that a negative child-rearing results in homosexuality, but if someone raises an alcoholic, wife-beating deadbeat who objectifies women, that there is no problem. I've met "straight" people who have much more sexual complexities and issues than the average gay man. Everybody fucntions differently to different situations, its a fact of life. Some problems that somebody will just brush off, others store up and let build up. What I am saying is that there is no recipie to screwing somebody up, it varies from person to person...and there will always be the exception when some kid was beat to hell and raped by his father, and turns out to be completely normal....

If you want people to take your thesis seriously, you have to stop your bullshit conservative shock-jockying. I've seen the gimmick played to death, and it doesn't advance an argument. It just makes you look stupid.
What are you talking about? I have said many of times that my belief is only a theory, and that genetic causes may just as well be the cause of homosexuality, so I am just representing my opinion and staying open minded. I have seen your gimmicks played to death as well, making me out to be a bigot, when really my opinion is just different then yours. It just makes you look stupid.

Now do you see why people may see you as bigoted? Read your own posts, and see what you think. Would you be comfortable saying those things to a gay person?
No, I dont see why two or three people on here see me as a bigot... I have re-read my posts, they are obviously opinionated, but not offensive. I would say that sort of thing to a gay person any day, I mean, what have I said wrong, and exact example please?
That being said, I'd like to reiterate that this thread should end now in the interests of true acceptance. The source of the homosexual community is irrelevant. The sooner we stop looking at these people as an issue on a political campaign, the sooner we can start treating them like PEOPLE.
True, we should accept them as equals, because they still are humans, different yes, but humans none the less. But I still think that research on this should be done...I mean, why wouldnt you want to know? That way this discussion would never have to happen in the first place...

Love is one of the most beautiful and powerful things in the world. Quite frankly, I think we could use abit more of it these days. Do we really need to start persecuting people for HOW they love? No. Lets just be glad that they do. I agree, but what is wrong with research? We find out answers...what wrong could come from research? The truth?

[DevilMayCare]

::raises hand:: i never called you a bigot or a misogynist. i just said that opinions about people are formed during childhood and adolescence. sorry if there was confusion. can we still be brief acquaintances??:)