If we're going to blam Bush for the Economy....

[yeat182]

Then he deserves our praise for this...

http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/20030824/D7T4BHVG3.html?PG=home&SEC=news

you can't have it both ways, if he's soley responsible for the bad things that happen in this country, then you have to praise him for the good things as well....

[Ronin]

Originally posted by yeat182
Then he deserves our praise for this...

http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/20030824/D7T4BHVG3.html?PG=home&SEC=news

you can't have it both ways, if he's soley responsible for the bad things that happen in this country, then you have to praise him for the good things as well....


"Attorney General John Ashcroft credited citizens for being more willing to report crimes and said the numbers are a tribute to the work of police, prosecutors and judges across the country."

"Experts say a number of factors have driven the crime rate down, including a more mature, less violent illegal drug trade, a drop in gang membership and even improved home locks and alarms that deter would-be burglars."


One person can't be credited with this, just like one person can't be credited with tanking the US economy.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Ronin
"Attorney General John Ashcroft credited citizens for being more willing to report crimes and said the numbers are a tribute to the work of police, prosecutors and judges across the country."

"Experts say a number of factors have driven the crime rate down, including a more mature, less violent illegal drug trade, a drop in gang membership and even improved home locks and alarms that deter would-be burglars."


One person can't be credited with this, just like one person can't be credited with tanking the US economy.
unfortunentaly bush gets the finger pointed at him for everything that goes wrong and gets no credit when things go right...i personally think that the president has little influence over the economy...but I'm no economist

[Ronin]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
unfortunentaly bush gets the finger pointed at him for everything that goes wrong and gets no credit when things go right...i personally think that the president has little influence over the economy...but I'm no economist

The president has vast influence over everything. Why else would he be called the most powerful man in the world?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Ronin
The president has vast influence over everything. Why else would he be called the most powerful man in the world?
I would beg to differ...Greenspan has a much larger influence on the economy...

[Ronin]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
I would beg to differ...Greenspan has a much larger influence on the economy...

Not to be a dick, but are you suffering from acute illiteracy today? I never said that he was the MOST influential concerning the economy, I said he's called the most powerful man in the world, indicating his overall influence is vast.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Ronin
Not to be a dick, but are you suffering from acute illiteracy today? I never said that he was the MOST influential concerning the economy, I said he's called the most powerful man in the world, indicating his overall influence is vast.
I guess I didnt voice what I meant to say correctly...Bush has little to no control over intrest rates, stock and the amount of money that the American people plug into the economy...

[superheroine]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
I guess I didnt voice what I meant to say correctly...Bush has little to no control over intrest rates, stock and the amount of money that the American people plug into the economy...

Does anyone remember when Bush told everyone to run out and buy duct tape to protect themselves? Well, a ton of people and their mothers ran out and bought duct tape. I think Bush does have some control in how much money people plug into the economy. A little later we find out that the makers of duct tape (I forget which company) were one of the largest donators to the Bush campaign.

Another thing - I don't exactly see how Bush can be credited and praised by the aforementioned article? Crime rates dropped - so how is Bush solely responsible for this?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by superheroine
Does anyone remember when Bush told everyone to run out and buy duct tape to protect themselves? Well, a ton of people and their mothers ran out and bought duct tape. I think Bush does have some control in how much money people plug into the economy. A little later we find out that the makers of duct tape (I forget which company) were one of the largest donators to the Bush campaign.

Another thing - I don't exactly see how Bush can be credited and praised by the aforementioned article? Crime rates dropped - so how is Bush solely responsible for this?
You cannot just splurt out "facts" like the duct tape people were the biggest dontators...you need some evidence to back it up, like a link. And I dont think that Bush ever said "Go buy duct tape". Again, a link.

Hey guess what! Bush found the cure for cancer!

[superheroine]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
You cannot just splurt out "facts" like the duct tape people were the biggest dontators...you need some evidence to back it up, like a link. And I dont think that Bush ever said "Go buy duct tape". Again, a link.

Hey guess what! Bush found the cure for cancer!

Do some research, kiddo..

It wasn't exaclty Bush but his administration...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/11/emergency.supplies/

And Manco - one of the largest makers of duct tape - are also one of the larget donators to the Bush campaign.

I wouldn’t feel very secure about the folks in the Bush administration either, especially when it seems that either policy choices are influenced by campaign donations or homeland security is really just another opportunity to leave unfunded directives. Did you know that, according to Al Kamen in The Washington Post, that the people who make 46 percent of all duct tape have recently increased production by 40 percent? Given that Tom Ridge seems to have become a spokesperson for the virtues of duct tape, I guess it isn’t surprising that the GOP received more than $100,000 in the 2000 election cycle from the fine duct tape folks. Actually, I just checked the numbers at the Center for Responsive Politics, looking up all political contributions from employees of of Manco Inc. (the duct tape people), and found that they contributed $136,723 during the 2000 and 2002 election cycles. A good investment, indeed.
-from http://www.radiofreebill.com/archives/categories/our_george_w_bush_crisis/index.shtml

Coincidence? I think not.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

ya cuz bush said go out and buy manco duct tape....also they didnt tell americans to go out and buy duct tape, they name a list of things that would help after an attack.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by Ronin

One person can't be credited with this, just like one person can't be credited with tanking the US economy.

i know, that was my point.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by Ronin
The president has vast influence over everything. Why else would he be called the most powerful man in the world?

if he has a vast influence over everything, shouldn't he get some credit for the extremely low crime rate?

[yeat182]

Originally posted by superheroine
Do some research, kiddo..

It wasn't exaclty Bush but his administration...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/11/emergency.supplies/

And Manco - one of the largest makers of duct tape - are also one of the larget donators to the Bush campaign.


-from http://www.radiofreebill.com/archives/categories/our_george_w_bush_crisis/index.shtml

Coincidence? I think not.


you said it yourself, they are one of the largest makers of duct tape, why wouldn't you tell people to buy a product that is obviously a very successful one? If you are going to buy something, don't you want the best?

[superheroine]

Originally posted by yeat182
you said it yourself, they are one of the largest makers of duct tape, why wouldn't you tell people to buy a product that is obviously a very successful one? If you are going to buy something, don't you want the best?

Just because you're the largest company doesn't mean you have the best quality product.

And really - I don't think duct tape is going to save my life.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by superheroine
Just because you're the largest company doesn't mean you have the best quality product.

And really - I don't think duct tape is going to save my life.

A. they are the largest company for a reason, most likely because they offer the best product.

B. then don't buy duct tape, no one is forcing you. this was your conspiracy theory and you just sunk your whole arguement because no one is forcing anyone to buy anything.

[superheroine]

Originally posted by yeat182
A. they are the largest company for a reason, most likely because they offer the best product.

B. then don't buy duct tape, no one is forcing you. this was your conspiracy theory and you just sunk your whole arguement because no one is forcing anyone to buy anything.

First off - my point I was trying to prove is that the president and his administration do have some influence of where and how Americans spend their money - that was my point.

I don't think it's a conspiracy - I believe it's the truth, the facts are all there. Basically, Bush and his aministration like to play the "you scratch our back, we'll scratch yours" game with their already filthy rich friends and disregard the average American. I'm sure if Manco was financing the Democratic campaign, the Bush administration wouldn't have told people to run out and buy it.

I mean, if you want to believe that this whole administration is super sincere and it's just a coincidence, go for it.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by superheroine


I don't think it's a conspiracy - I believe it's the truth, the facts are all there. Basically, Bush and his aministration like to play the "you scratch our back, we'll scratch yours" game with their already filthy rich friends and disregard the average American. I'm sure if Manco was financing the Democratic campaign, the Bush administration wouldn't have told people to run out and buy it.

I mean, if you want to believe that this whole administration is super sincere and it's just a coincidence, go for it.

you are naive if you think that democrats don't do the exact same thing...

and i don't think the adminsitration is totally sincere, nor are they perfect, but i don't believe they are out to ruin the world, or that they are some evil sinister creation and that we are all doomed. you tend to make mountains out of molehills.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by superheroine
Bush and his aministration like to play the "you scratch our back, we'll scratch yours" game with their already filthy rich friends and disregard the average American. I'm sure if Manco was financing the Democratic campaign, the Bush administration wouldn't have told people to run out and buy it.


i get it your trying to saying bush and the manco company are doing exactly what clinton and the democrats did with communist china the whole favor for a favor thing..........

[superheroine]

Originally posted by yeat182
you are naive if you think that democrats don't do the exact same thing...

and i don't think the adminsitration is totally sincere, nor are they perfect, but i don't believe they are out to ruin the world, or that they are some evil sinister creation and that we are all doomed. you tend to make mountains out of molehills.

I never said anything about democrats - nor do I support them. Everybody assumes since I have liberal views I support Clinton and the democrats. I believe democrats are almost just as bad as Republicans.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by superheroine
I never said anything about democrats - nor do I support them. Everybody assumes since I have liberal views I support Clinton and the democrats. I believe democrats are almost just as bad as Republicans.

i never said you supported them, my point was that every politician does the same thing, republican, democrat, independent, socialist whatever, they all do it, it isn't as if Bush and Co. are suddenly playing by a different set of rules.

[superheroine]

Originally posted by yeat182
i never said you supported them, my point was that every politician does the same thing, republican, democrat, independent, socialist whatever, they all do it, it isn't as if Bush and Co. are suddenly playing by a different set of rules.

Exactly - the whole system is fucked.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by superheroine
Exactly - the whole system is fucked.

agreed

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by superheroine
Exactly - the whole system is fucked.
Dont get me wrong here, but I agree with you on this one that government, not matter whom is in office, is fairly corrupt, I just had a hypothetical thought here...
If everybody was fucked and corrupt at all times, wouldnt it be considered "par" and therefore, not fucked or corrupt? I dont know if that makes sence to any of you, I just read some weird book, gets you thinking. How do you know that somebody actually exists when they leave the room?

[yeat182]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Dont get me wrong here, but I agree with you on this one that government, not matter whom is in office, is fairly corrupt, I just had a hypothetical thought here...
If everybody was fucked and corrupt at all times, wouldnt it be considered "par" and therefore, not fucked or corrupt? I dont know if that makes sence to any of you, I just read some weird book, gets you thinking. How do you know that somebody actually exists when they leave the room?

how do you know that the color yellow is actually the color yellow? how would you explain it to a blind person?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by yeat182
how do you know that the color yellow is actually the color yellow? how would you explain it to a blind person?
How do you know that chocolate to you tastes like chocolate to another person?

[superheroine]

Originally posted by yeat182
agreed

Oh my! It is possible? Do my eyes read right? We agreed on something! hahaha. ;)

[PunkRocks]

Exactly - the whole system is fucked.

You're typing on a computer. That means you have an education. It also means you're at a location with working electricity and the money to buy a computer. Chances are, it's yours/your parent's computer which is in your house. This also means you are not in jail. You're also voicing your opinions openly against the government of this country, and are not being arrested for it. Chances are you have a job and/or are recieving an education somewhere. You're alive, and chances are that you're in good health (correct me if I'm wrong).. therefore you must have the ability to reach an affordable doctor in times of need. If you have a car, you can drive anywhere you wish without checkpoints. I know you're not 18 yet so you can't vote, but when you turn 18 you have the ability to vote on the leadership of this country. You have the ability to leave this country anytime you want, the government is not forcing you to stay here. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket or any other crime charged against you, you can hire a lawyer to justify your innocence, if you in fact possess innocence. You can use the telephone, internet, or mail anytime you want. You can watch television and listen to radio that is not government-controlled, except to remove highly-obscene content. You can go to any church you wish, and practice any religion you wish. You can choose your college, choose your job, and choose your spouse.

Now I'm getting bored writing all this, so I hope you get my point. Our system works quite well, and contains many many benefits and privileges that other countries do not have. Quit complaining, or if you still insist on doing so, don't make idiotic, vague comments such as the one noted above.

[Ronin]

Now I'm getting bored writing all this, so I hope you get my point. Our system works quite well, and contains many many benefits and privileges that other countries do not have. Quit complaining, or if you still insist on doing so, don't make idiotic, vague comments such as the one noted above.

I don't usually atttack people, but you're an idiot.

Once we've reached this level, everyone should just shut up and accept our fate? We should ignore every problem in government? We have the right to protest, and to question our publicly elected figured. Yes, we enjoy many more freedoms than our ancestors, and a much better government than many other citizens of the world. Does that mean that we should just give up any and all reform? Isn't there always room for improvement? I think pretty much every person on this board (right or left wing) would be able to suggest a long list of changes they'd like to see in our society government. Just because we've reached a certain level of freedom doesn't mean we should just lay back and let it ride out. We don't elect politicians and give them a blank cheque, they have to answer to the public that elected them, we have a voice.

[superheroine]

Originally posted by Ronin
I don't usually atttack people, but you're an idiot.

Once we've reached this level, everyone should just shut up and accept our fate? We should ignore every problem in government? We have the right to protest, and to question our publicly elected figured. Yes, we enjoy many more freedoms than our ancestors, and a much better government than many other citizens of the world. Does that mean that we should just give up any and all reform? Isn't there always room for improvement? I think pretty much every person on this board (right or left wing) would be able to suggest a long list of changes they'd like to see in our society government. Just because we've reached a certain level of freedom doesn't mean we should just lay back and let it ride out. We don't elect politicians and give them a blank cheque, they have to answer to the public that elected them, we have a voice.

I think you summed up everything I was about to say in your post so no need to respond- thanks.

[PunkRocks]

I don't usually atttack people, but you're an idiot.

Once we've reached this level, everyone should just shut up and accept our fate? We should ignore every problem in government? We have the right to protest, and to question our publicly elected figured. Yes, we enjoy many more freedoms than our ancestors, and a much better government than many other citizens of the world. Does that mean that we should just give up any and all reform? Isn't there always room for improvement? I think pretty much every person on this board (right or left wing) would be able to suggest a long list of changes they'd like to see in our society government. Just because we've reached a certain level of freedom doesn't mean we should just lay back and let it ride out. We don't elect politicians and give them a blank cheque, they have to answer to the public that elected them, we have a voice.

I agree with you completely, but you assume too much. You took an idea that I never even mentioned, and ran with it. I never said anything about not voicing your opinions on changes. I never said we couldn't have reform. If you completely read what I said, and understand it (it isn't that complex) then you'd see that I basically said "stop complaining unless you have a valid argument" ... so in other words, don't just have your one point be "the whole system's fucked." And my point was proving that the system isn't fucked. But about what you wrote, I don't know what I said that inspired you to write that, but um.. it's true, yet irrelevant.

[Ronin]

Originally posted by PunkRocks
I agree with you completely, but you assume too much. You took an idea that I never even mentioned, and ran with it. I never said anything about not voicing your opinions on changes. I never said we couldn't have reform. If you completely read what I said, and understand it (it isn't that complex) then you'd see that I basically said "stop complaining unless you have a valid argument" ... so in other words, don't just have your one point be "the whole system's fucked." And my point was proving that the system isn't fucked. But about what you wrote, I don't know what I said that inspired you to write that, but um.. it's true, yet irrelevant.

You said "Quit complaining" (hence the quote above my retort). Granted there was somewhat of a qualifier following that statement, but the phrase "quit complaining" doesn't really belong in a political discussion, hence my rant.

[superheroine]

Originally posted by PunkRocks
I basically said "stop complaining unless you have a valid argument" ... so in other words, don't just have your one point be "the whole system's fucked." And my point was proving that the system isn't fucked. But about what you wrote, I don't know what I said that inspired you to write that, but um.. it's true, yet irrelevant.

If you would have read the thread you may have realized that there are several valid points, arguments, and debates on the topic - it just wasn't some random comment.