Bigger Than The Sound: The Fifth Edition

[Anton Djamoos]

You know how we all look back at the glam rock/hair metal trend of the 80s and laugh? Have you ever thought that the "scene" look of girl jeans, guyliner, and over-stylized hair might just be the next big joke? James Montgomery asks, "Is 2007 really just 1989 but, you know, worse? (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1562329/20070612/taking_back_sunday.jhtml)"

[Cottage Cheese]

This is something everyone realized years ago.

[doomcrs04]

This is hilarious. Who is the tbs and bn of the 80's?

[nigoudouille]

haha this article is just brillant! i can't wait for the year 2027!

[Anton Djamoos]

This is something everyone realized years ago.
Yup, pretty much.

[Anton Djamoos]

When I saw this for the first time, I knew it had officially been taken too far.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/PunkPrincess7962/Sonny%20Moore/54fe0c1d.jpg

[DItaliaO]

I say no their will never be another Hair metal era. You have to remeber that hair metal ruled the airwaves. Hip-Hop was still in its infancy. Just turn on your radio today. You might hear Fall Out Boy or Boys Like Girls, but only after you heard fifty songs with Fergie and Akon in them. I rarely hear bands like Taking Back Sunday on the radio they only really starting playing them with their recent album.

So no their isn't a hair metal trend. It already happened with Grunge and Nu-Metal.

[Trainsaw]

yeah the emo *** look is gonna be laughed at, probably as bad as the 80's.

[callingallcars]

the emo look is already laughed at. this article is stupid. I am just wondering in twenty years will there be balding guys wearing tbs shirts or FOB or CIWWAF shirts like you see people wearing lynyrd skynyrd and motley crue and stuff. that is actually a joke to look forward to.

[Trainsaw]

the emo look is already laughed at. this article is stupid. I am just wondering in twenty years will there be balding guys wearing tbs shirts or FOB or CIWWAF shirts like you see people wearing lynyrd skynyrd and motley crue and stuff. that is actually a joke to look forward to.

i don't see any old bald guys wearing Motley Crue shirts?

[ship of fools]

more like 2005

[Cerpin Taxt]

I say no their will never be another Hair metal era. You have to remeber that hair metal ruled the airwaves. Hip-Hop was still in its infancy. Just turn on your radio today. You might hear Fall Out Boy or Boys Like Girls, but only after you heard fifty songs with Fergie and Akon in them. I rarely hear bands like Taking Back Sunday on the radio they only really starting playing them with their recent album.

So no their isn't a hair metal trend. It already happened with Grunge and Nu-Metal.

The Radio fundamentally works differently today then it did in the 80s, therefore your argument falls flat. Additionally, you've contradicted yourself: will there never be another hair metal era, or did it already happen with Grunge and Nu-Metal?

Anyway, I think the MTV article is shockingly on point. This brings us to a better question: which bands will stand the test of time and prove their legitimacy outside of the context of the "scene", and who will be forgotten completely?

[smelltheglove]

yeah the emo *** look is gonna be laughed at, probably as bad as the 80's.


I hope so, I was laughing at it 5 years ago and it's only gotten worse. anorexic boys in girl jeans with eyeliner and white belts screaming along to a band that wears marching band uniforms, dye their hair black....it's all so fuckin' teenage, why are the kids so caught up in fashion? emo kids are worse than the cheerleaders and just as judgemental.

[megancecelia]

the emo look is already laughed at. this article is stupid. I am just wondering in twenty years will there be balding guys wearing tbs shirts or FOB or CIWWAF shirts like you see people wearing lynyrd skynyrd and motley crue and stuff. that is actually a joke to look forward to.


I can't wait for the day i see an balding middle aged man wearing an FOB or CIWWAF shirt- craziness.

[NotEmo.JustMe]

wow...as much as i thought that article would be really stupid...it was very true. haha.
it does make me wonder about bands 20 years from now...and will people really hang onto the bands like FOB?

hmmm...somehow im doubting it but what do i know?...i grew up on boy bands and britney spears. hah.

[megancecelia]

The Radio fundamentally works differently today then it did in the 80s, therefore your argument falls flat. Additionally, you've contradicted yourself: will there never be another hair metal era, or did it already happen with Grunge and Nu-Metal?

Anyway, I think the MTV article is shockingly on point. This brings us to a better question: which bands will stand the test of time and prove their legitimacy outside of the context of the "scene", and who will be forgotten completely?

I agree. it's going to be really itneresting to see who will survive through the next few years. it seems like the bands that continue on are the ones that move with the trends or reinvent every few years. we'll see.

[abcdefghijennie]

wait, did he seriously compare linkin park to metallica?

[jd195527]

People seem to be forgetting that hair metal people and glam rock people were having fun. They were psyched to get dressed in the morning, loved the attention, just enjoyed their looks. I think most "scene" people are the same way. I dress in a pretty regular way, but when I do something weird looking or unpopular with my looks, it's not because I want people to think I look good in 20 years.

At the risk of getting too philosophical, this kind of analysis - What will they think of us in 20 years? How will this all be documented? - is so typical of the culture right now. I can't go to a party without getting my picture taken 100 times, and this is just high school kids. Everyone blogs, and takes pictures of everything, and basically obsesses over documentation of every moment. During every situation, people think about how it will be looked back on, how it will appear to the kids who see their blog about it and look at the pictures. Instant nostalgia. I can't live like that, so I won't worry too much about whether the bands I like will be made fun of in 20 years - most of them get made fun of now, anyway.

[m_rue]

I think the fact that the scene look is already made fun of these days indicates it will be in the future as well.

[Alexxx]

haha it already is a joke.

[Chris Fallon]

This is just obvious, but still, very funny.

Some of today's bands will be long forgotten, some will remain in music fans' hearts and others...will be punchlines until VH1 turns the joke around and produces a reality show about them trying to find a date or battle their addictions.

[zombiebrains]

hahaha why is this so ridiculous accurate it made me chortle

[BigMouthStrikes]

I agree. it's going to be really itneresting to see who will survive through the next few years. it seems like the bands that continue on are the ones that move with the trends or reinvent every few years. we'll see.

Jimmy Eat World and Thrice immediately spring to mind...possibly Taking Back Sunday and arguably My Chemical Romance

[Blake Solomon]

i love this writer. I need to red his articles more often.

[Troggy]

haha that was pretty good. long live hair metal.

[megancecelia]

Jimmy Eat World and Thrice immediately spring to mind...possibly Taking Back Sunday and arguably My Chemical Romance

Totally. I mean the scene has even evolved since I was in high school...TBS I would say could make the jump because i feel like they have already....Jimmy Eat World definitely but some of these bands that I continually see on AP seem like they are making music just like everyone else's and won't survive the next big music genre push.... or I could be just talking out of my ass.

[DItaliaO]

The Radio fundamentally works differently today then it did in the 80s, therefore your argument falls flat. Additionally, you've contradicted yourself: will there never be another hair metal era, or did it already happen with Grunge and Nu-Metal?

Anyway, I think the MTV article is shockingly on point. This brings us to a better question: which bands will stand the test of time and prove their legitimacy outside of the context of the "scene", and who will be forgotten completely?

I don't think the radio/tv works any different 20 years ago then it does today. It's still the Top 40 format. But my previous statement might contradict it self so I did some research on the Top 10 songs of now and Top 10 of 1987

Currently their is only one "scene" band in the top 10 and that's the Plain White Ts

Back in 1987 their is only one "hair metal" band in the top 10 and that was Bon Jovi

So maybe radio wasn't the greatest catalyst of this type of music. So we turn to MTV. Now I tried to find some kind of list of the most heavily rotated video and couldn't find anything. But we all know that MTV played more videos back then so the exposure of hair metal was more than "emo-punk" today via MTV. You can just watch MTV now when they play videos it's a never ending barrage of Crunk/Snap/Southern HipHop. (This genre is maybe more hair metal than emo-punk, just look at MTV2s unleashed video for the week Kia Shine - Krispy. Who?)

But one fact does ring true "emo-punk" growth of popularity was sparred by the internet. People who use the computer regularly though. I have a lot of friends younger and older than me who don't use computer has much as me and probley not as much as the average user on this site who posts on the msg board. Yes their are similarities between "emo-punk" and "hair metal" pretaining to dressing up, But every genre of music especially rock music has their dress code. Yes their are alot of cookie-cutter bands out their has well. But the average person today is not gonna hear them. The average person of the 80s might have heard them cause they played that cookie-cutters video on MTV.

Now will "emo-punk" see the same demise has "hair metal"? In this day and age no. We are not force fed music anymore. We are savvy enough to go find music that liken to are tastes. "Hair Metal" was forced fed to us "Grunge" was forced fed to us. Nirvana was played heavily. They were a punk band. But were slapped with the Grunge tag and cookie cutters soon followed. Then "Nu-metal" had it's day in the sun. Does anybody remember the epic battles on TRL? Korn and Limp Bizkit vs. Backstreet Boys and N'Sync. And the undercard was Orgy vs. 98 Degrees? Those were good times.

Yes the pop world will throw away "emo-punk" Look at Fall Out Boy, FUCT singles were on the radio heavily. IOH singles quickly faded away. But will the genre die? It might not be like it was in the late 90s - early 2000s. But it'll still be here out of the public eye and eventually back to "us".

To answer your question who will stand the test of time? I believe the bands like Brand New, Fall Out Boy, Saves The Day, New Found Glory, Taking Back Sunday, Bayside. They started early. I think any band that came together later in this decade will just break up.

[watchthesky07]

wait, did he seriously compare linkin park to metallica?

haha my thoughts exactly.

[megancecelia]

I don't think the radio/tv works any different 20 years ago then it does today. It's still the Top 40 format. But my previous statement might contradict it self so I did some research on the Top 10 songs of now and Top 10 of 1987

Currently their is only one "scene" band in the top 10 and that's the Plain White Ts

Back in 1987 their is only one "hair metal" band in the top 10 and that was Bon Jovi

So maybe radio wasn't the greatest catalyst of this type of music. So we turn to MTV. Now I tried to find some kind of list of the most heavily rotated video and couldn't find anything. But we all know that MTV played more videos back then so the exposure of hair metal was more than "emo-punk" today via MTV. You can just watch MTV now when they play videos it's a never ending barrage of Crunk/Snap/Southern HipHop. (This genre is maybe more hair metal than emo-punk, just look at MTV2s unleashed video for the week Kia Shine - Krispy. Who?)

But one fact does ring true "emo-punk" growth of popularity was sparred by the internet. People who use the computer regularly though. I have a lot of friends younger and older than me who don't use computer has much as me and probley not as much as the average user on this site who posts on the msg board. Yes their are similarities between "emo-punk" and "hair metal" pretaining to dressing up, But every genre of music especially rock music has their dress code. Yes their are alot of cookie-cutter bands out their has well. But the average person today is not gonna hear them. The average person of the 80s might have heard them cause they played that cookie-cutters video on MTV.

Now will "emo-punk" see the same demise has "hair metal"? In this day and age no. We are not force fed music anymore. We are savvy enough to go find music that liken to are tastes. "Hair Metal" was forced fed to us "Grunge" was forced fed to us. Nirvana was played heavily. They were a punk band. But were slapped with the Grunge tag and cookie cutters soon followed. Then "Nu-metal" had it's day in the sun. Does anybody remember the epic battles on TRL? Korn and Limp Bizkit vs. Backstreet Boys and N'Sync. And the undercard was Orgy vs. 98 Degrees? Those were good times.

Yes the pop world will throw away "emo-punk" Look at Fall Out Boy, FUCT singles were on the radio heavily. IOH singles quickly faded away. But will the genre die? It might not be like it was in the late 90s - early 2000s. But it'll still be here out of the public eye and eventually back to "us".

To answer your question who will stand the test of time? I believe the bands like Brand New, Fall Out Boy, Saves The Day, New Found Glory, Taking Back Sunday, Bayside. They started early. I think any band that came together later in this decade will just break up.


well put. I agree.
I would just like to say though that the radio isn't what pushes music today...honestly the internet is what throws everything off of what it used to be (see: the 80s & 90s) In high school and growing up my musical tastes were dictated by what I heard in the car or what was playing on rotation for TRL (oh how I miss old school MTV Live and TRL- there were never any suprises) but once kids hit college (myself included) it seems that that's where music got popular. The scene thrived on the internet.. and now more or less it's all going mainstream thanks to MTV2 and MTVU and FUSE...i won't give them all the credit myspace has taken over as well. Everything that was underground is now popular because it's "underground".
So basically i agree but I think you underestimated the internet generation.

[BigMouthStrikes]

Totally. I mean the scene has even evolved since I was in high school...TBS I would say could make the jump because i feel like they have already....Jimmy Eat World definitely but some of these bands that I continually see on AP seem like they are making music just like everyone else's and won't survive the next big music genre push.... or I could be just talking out of my ass.

I definitley agree - in 10 or 15 years there will only be a handful of bands from this 'scene' that are still around and the reason they'll still be around will be the fact that they have consistentley been producing new, inventive music

[megancecelia]

i love this writer. I need to red his articles more often.


be weary it's still MTV...he's pretty good some of the time...

[eMart]

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=6789790#post678979 0

I will sue

[Phil507]

People seem to be forgetting that hair metal people and glam rock people were having fun. They were psyched to get dressed in the morning, loved the attention, just enjoyed their looks. I think most "scene" people are the same way. I dress in a pretty regular way, but when I do something weird looking or unpopular with my looks, it's not because I want people to think I look good in 20 years.

At the risk of getting too philosophical, this kind of analysis - What will they think of us in 20 years? How will this all be documented? - is so typical of the culture right now. I can't go to a party without getting my picture taken 100 times, and this is just high school kids. Everyone blogs, and takes pictures of everything, and basically obsesses over documentation of every moment. During every situation, people think about how it will be looked back on, how it will appear to the kids who see their blog about it and look at the pictures. Instant nostalgia. I can't live like that, so I won't worry too much about whether the bands I like will be made fun of in 20 years - most of them get made fun of now, anyway.

True. But there are a lot of kids I see at shows who I just want to pull aside and be like "Listen, I know you think you're making a statement, but you look FUCKING ridiculous."

[turbonium]

This is something everyone realized years ago.

Exactly. It's not a 2007 thing. It's a 2004 thing. When it actually became big.

[Blake Solomon]

be weary it's still MTV...he's pretty good some of the time...


eh, yeah, it's almost hypocritical for him to have the opinions he does. But still, that was a funny, well-informed read.

[brentkid]

I'm so over this emo trendy stuff. It really needs to just die.

[megancecelia]

True. But there are a lot of kids I see at shows who I just want to pull aside and be like "Listen, I know you think you're making a statement, but you look FUCKING ridiculous."

doo ittt! and then pimp slap them across their overly pierced little face's! too much?

[Cerpin Taxt]

I don't think the radio/tv works any different 20 years ago then it does today. It's still the Top 40 format. But my previous statement might contradict it self so I did some research on the Top 10 songs of now and Top 10 of 1987

Currently their is only one "scene" band in the top 10 and that's the Plain White Ts

Back in 1987 their is only one "hair metal" band in the top 10 and that was Bon Jovi

So maybe radio wasn't the greatest catalyst of this type of music. So we turn to MTV. Now I tried to find some kind of list of the most heavily rotated video and couldn't find anything. But we all know that MTV played more videos back then so the exposure of hair metal was more than "emo-punk" today via MTV. You can just watch MTV now when they play videos it's a never ending barrage of Crunk/Snap/Southern HipHop. (This genre is maybe more hair metal than emo-punk, just look at MTV2s unleashed video for the week Kia Shine - Krispy. Who?)

But one fact does ring true "emo-punk" growth of popularity was sparred by the internet. People who use the computer regularly though. I have a lot of friends younger and older than me who don't use computer has much as me and probley not as much as the average user on this site who posts on the msg board. Yes their are similarities between "emo-punk" and "hair metal" pretaining to dressing up, But every genre of music especially rock music has their dress code. Yes their are alot of cookie-cutter bands out their has well. But the average person today is not gonna hear them. The average person of the 80s might have heard them cause they played that cookie-cutters video on MTV.

Now will "emo-punk" see the same demise has "hair metal"? In this day and age no. We are not force fed music anymore. We are savvy enough to go find music that liken to are tastes. "Hair Metal" was forced fed to us "Grunge" was forced fed to us. Nirvana was played heavily. They were a punk band. But were slapped with the Grunge tag and cookie cutters soon followed. Then "Nu-metal" had it's day in the sun. Does anybody remember the epic battles on TRL? Korn and Limp Bizkit vs. Backstreet Boys and N'Sync. And the undercard was Orgy vs. 98 Degrees? Those were good times.

Yes the pop world will throw away "emo-punk" Look at Fall Out Boy, FUCT singles were on the radio heavily. IOH singles quickly faded away. But will the genre die? It might not be like it was in the late 90s - early 2000s. But it'll still be here out of the public eye and eventually back to "us".

To answer your question who will stand the test of time? I believe the bands like Brand New, Fall Out Boy, Saves The Day, New Found Glory, Taking Back Sunday, Bayside. They started early. I think any band that came together later in this decade will just break up.

I should have been more specific when I said that the radio works differently now. It's still the top 40 format, yes, but what has changed is how artists get to the Top 40 in the first place. Today, we see more artists who have been crafted in-house by their labels to be successful. Many artists in the Top 40 are simply manufactured to have mass appeal. Labels are spending a lot of money to get the sounds we hear on the top 10, and in many cases they are creating these artists out of thin air: meaning that that many of them lacked a fanbase before they released their debuts. This is a break from history because in the past labels would observe trends and then cater to them (as they did with Hair Metal and Grunge and New Metal, ect). FUSE behaves this way today, as evidenced by the preponderance of emo bands currently on that channel. They are following rather than attempting to create musical trends. Granted, labels have always manufactured hits, but in today's climate they are doing so while ignoring actual trends in music (like emo).

I don't think that emo will experience the same demise as hair metal unless a particularly provocative artist or movement comes along that demonstrates why the genre is no longer relevant or why it's overall approach is bogus. I don't think this is likely, however, because many kids see emo not just as a form of music but as a lifestyle. Like hardcore Christians, they aren't going to be swayed by someone pointing out one fallacious piece of doctrine. It's the whole package which moves them, not just the music. As a side note, I've always found the Hot Topic motto incredibly funny: "It's all about the music." Nothing could be further from the truth.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that when Nirvana hit the airwaves, people fucking loved them. It wasn't like labels forced them upon us (as they are doing now with, say, Rihanna). Granted, labels rode the wave of that movement by producing a great number of Grunge bands, but that's quite different from what's happening today.

Using different forms of media as criteria for this discussion is a mistake because the climate of the 80s was so different. Even if radio DID work the same way, you are right to point out that the internet changes everything. I think it makes more sense to compare the "scene" with hair metal/ect. by comparing the creative ideologies which fuel those movements. For example, both types of music place a great deal of emphasis of appearance while mostly ignoring advanced music theory. Both styles use similar arrangements and simple song structures (AABABCB). Am I making some sense? Hopefully some of you will disagree with me.

[x__vampire]

OK, so emo/scene fashion is pretty stupid. But the article itself is really ignorant. Neither My Chemical Romance, Cute Is What We Aim For or Panic! at the Disco are actually emo/punk bands.

[gob15]

I still don't know how:

-FOB, MCR, Panic are considered emo
-emo and punk got lumped in together


Emo NEVER had anyone wearing makeup. "Emo" was Sunny Day, Mineral, Jimmy, GUk, Promise Ring etc etc etc. None of these bands have anything in common with the "emo-punkers." It's so sad. I guess this is why all of the "emo" bands avoided be labeled emo. Did they know they would eventually be associated with the crap make up wearing bands?

[younglion]

Did that article just insinuate that Linkin Park is a respectable rock band like Metallica? That is fucking outrageous.

[Jaynicgurl]

True. But there are a lot of kids I see at shows who I just want to pull aside and be like "Listen, I know you think you're making a statement, but you look FUCKING ridiculous."


Yeah, but who really cares? (And for the record, I'm not trying to argue or anything, just merely putting my two cents in....:-) )I think this whole "emo hating" trend is getting kinda ridiculous. There are going to be trends and genres that people are not going to like (obviously), but if we worry about what other people listening to, aren't we just destroying the purpose of music? The ability to make and sing anything we want? The ability to dress any way we want? To listen to anything we want? I say let kids dress the way they want, even if you think they look hilarious. There's going to be a big thing in every single generation. I don't care if I look back 20 years from now, and see how ridiculous I looked. At least I had fun and hung out with the people I love best.

People really have to step back and look at their reasons why they hate this "emo" trend so much. Sure, it's everywhere, but that's it: it's just fashion and music. People are really acting like they are being forced to listen to this stuff. I,myself, don't really think "emo" exist. But that's not going to stop everyone else to talk about it.


Oh well, just live on people.

[redindiangrl]

He makes some good points.



Too bad it's all discredited by the fact that this is on MTV News.

I have a feeling he's not one of the "self-respecting music fans" he thinks wouldn't be caught dead listening to this music.

[Cerpin Taxt]

I still don't know how:

-FOB, MCR, Panic are considered emo
-emo and punk got lumped in together


Emo NEVER had anyone wearing makeup. "Emo" was Sunny Day, Mineral, Jimmy, GUk, Promise Ring etc etc etc. None of these bands have anything in common with the "emo-punkers." It's so sad. I guess this is why all of the "emo" bands avoided be labeled emo. Did they know they would eventually be associated with the crap make up wearing bands?

The meaning of the word "emo" has changed. To the vast, vast majority of people, emo meants FOB and MCR.

[handofgod]

why do you have to think of it as looking back on it as a joke? there has been some classic albums released by bands in the scene and they shouldn't be looked back on as a joke because of the rest of the shite that has appeared.

it happens with everything. metal is a joke now but it doesn't stop me enjoying blacksabbath or the other great metal bands that started it. grunge is a joke with bands like nickleback but it doesnt make nirvana a joke. hip hop is the biggest fucken joke of the lot but theres still great hip hop records and great hip hop bands still making music. none of these are now looked back on as a joke even though they became a joke because of bands like papa roach, creed or mc fucking hammer.

so why should i be worrying on looking back on records like take this to your grave in a negative light? should i burn my copy of dookie or dude ranch because they spawned this whole joke? no.

every kind of music has become a joke because theres just too much shite about but the albums you love shouldn't be dismissed because of the scene that surrounds them

[pleasegoodmusic]

Awesome article. Everyone seems to be forgetting the good news: all of this crap music is paving the way for a new Nirvana. 12-15 year old kids across America are already looking to start bands and rebel against their older siblings awful taste in music!

[LoadedGunX21]

the sad part about all of this, is that this discussion is even going on at all. i wish someone powerful would rename the "emo" style into something else, and just let music go back to being music, because that's the biggest problem with all of this. hair metal never spawned a fashion movement like "emo" has, and its the fashion that makes "emo" so hated, especially by elitist scenesters.

if it was just put back to being music, everyone would be happy again. well, except the "emo" kids, of course (we all know, nothing makes them happy.... ever....:eyebrow:)

[Merco]

Regardless of whether or not I, or anyone else for that matter, agrees with this article or not, it is refreshing to see a well-written and intelligently presented arguement. Although, I don't think enough people realize, however, that maybe people listen to music because they actually like how it sounds.

[pleasegoodmusic]

Regardless of whether or not I, or anyone else for that matter, agrees with this article or not, it is refreshing to see a well-written and intelligently presented arguement. Although, I don't think enough people realize, however, that maybe people listen to music because they actually like how it sounds.

No one listens to pop music without taking a million things in to consideration besides the sound. In my opinion...

[Machu505]

Can't wait for the Taking Back Sunday reunion tour :-D

[Adeniz19]

I say no their will never be another Hair metal era. You have to remeber that hair metal ruled the airwaves. Hip-Hop was still in its infancy. Just turn on your radio today. You might hear Fall Out Boy or Boys Like Girls, but only after you heard fifty songs with Fergie and Akon in them. I rarely hear bands like Taking Back Sunday on the radio they only really starting playing them with their recent album.

So no their isn't a hair metal trend. It already happened with Grunge and Nu-Metal.you rarely hear those bands on the radio but the radio has become pretty obsolete. if you read the article he compared 80's radio to today's myspace players and how every teenage girl seems to have some band like FOB or red jumpsuit apparatus as their default song.

[ramstar]

i could have told you this a year ago. i'm not going to sit here and pretend to be pretentious like oh i listen to better music then you i hate these bands because this article disses them. these are my favorite bands, and you can take another guess as to what generation my other favorite bands come from - yup the 80's. skid row? poison? aerosmith? mötley crüe? bon jovi? gnr? yup all of them. oh and Butch Walker - yeah I adore him, though the contradiction bother me but so be it. my favorite fashions? slouch boats of course, leggings, door knocker earrings, leg warmers, old concert shirts cut up. this is nothing new. i mean look at the state of fashion right now - it's all 80's inspired! the most recent issue of W Magazine has a spread of Gisele is horrendous 80's fashions. you can see that here (http://www.style.com/w/feat_story/061307). more on the spring 07 80's inspired runways can be seen here (http://www.style.com/trends/trend_report/011507/soeighties). then you also have to take into account Metal Skool (http://www.myspace.com/metalskool) being the hot thing to do in LA last summer. also, NY's Awesome 80's Prom (http://www.awesome80sprom.com/) party. and then look at the so-called sceen queens - Audrey Kitching (http://audrey.buzznet.com/user/photos/?id=8145101) can usually be seen in some sort of trashy 80's band shirt! Jac Vanek always hanging with some band dudes. You get the point. There's just so much going on right now pointing to the 80's you've got to be oblivious not to realize it. So, yes, sadly I am going to argee with this article.

As far as the commerciality of emo - it's starting to catch onto mainstream radio Z100 plays FOB, P!ATD, HGB, etc. all the time randomly mixed in with like Jay-Z & Akon and what not. (But really, who listens to that anymore? XM & Sirius are about ten times better and have stations made espesh for emo and hair metal.) As does MTV & MTV2, even FUSE does this now. Also, so many tours whether they be large or small have corporate sponsors now... Honestly, I forgot what I was trying to get at.

Oh and TBS reunion tour - hell yeah I'll be there haha.

[AdamWASFearless]

I seem to have a little bit of perspective on this topic because I lived through it, my brother was one the the hair metal dudes, and I grew up listening to this. In addition, I also bought Skid Row on cassette and remember vividly listening to it with my walkman on long car rides.

I think the article has some validity to it but the writer fails to mention that after the hair metal fashion, and before the emo atrocities were the kids who all dressed up like Kurt Cobain, Chris Cornell, et al.

I would argue that those fashion missteps were just as ridiculous as the hair metal and emo kids.

just an opinion from a dude too old to be replying to this thread. ;-)

Adam

[EmilyRegina]

I still don't know how:

-FOB, MCR, Panic are considered emo
-emo and punk got lumped in together

Emo NEVER had anyone wearing makeup. "Emo" was Sunny Day, Mineral, Jimmy, GUk, Promise Ring etc etc etc. None of these bands have anything in common with the "emo-punkers." It's so sad. I guess this is why all of the "emo" bands avoided be labeled emo. Did they know they would eventually be associated with the crap make up wearing bands?
I miss the world when emo meant a band like Weezer. I agree, Rivers was smart enough to dodge this.

The meaning of the word "emo" has changed. To the vast, vast majority of people, emo meants FOB and MCR.
More like it was stolen at some point or another.. who knows. In a scene where tags and genres are everything for some reason... there needs to be a new tag. Emo as a "tag" is obsolete... the scene kids have turned what once was something else into a whole different situation that still has the same name somehow.


if it was just put back to being music, everyone would be happy again. well, except the "emo" kids, of course (we all know, nothing makes them happy.... ever....:eyebrow:)
:lolatpost:

No one listens to pop music without taking a million things in to consideration besides the sound. In my opinion...
Not true across the board. You can be somewhat outside certain influences if you have an open mind when looking for new music to like. I started listening to Bright Eyes when I stumbled upon "Listen..." in a used record store in 2002 and bought it on a recommendation. My sister handed me the Format's ep a couple years ago and just said listen to this (I never even knew what they looked like before seeing them in concert). In cases like those all you have to go off of is the sound. Off topic, I know, but needed a response.

[LilRyan732]

This is something everyone realized years ago.


Agreed. Surprised we weren't saying this when it FIRST came out (well atleast I was).

[snowtires]

This is something everyone realized years ago.

yeah, i've been saying this for years, specifically, 'in ten years, everyone is going to point and laugh at these kids the way we point and laugh at hair metal bands.' true story

[AndrewStuart]

Did that article just insinuate that Linkin Park is a respectable rock band like Metallica? That is fucking outrageous.

yea, I did a triple take there too.

People seem to be forgetting that hair metal people and glam rock people were having fun. They were psyched to get dressed in the morning, loved the attention, just enjoyed their looks. I think most "scene" people are the same way. I dress in a pretty regular way, but when I do something weird looking or unpopular with my looks, it's not because I want people to think I look good in 20 years.

At the risk of getting too philosophical, this kind of analysis - What will they think of us in 20 years? How will this all be documented? - is so typical of the culture right now. I can't go to a party without getting my picture taken 100 times, and this is just high school kids. Everyone blogs, and takes pictures of everything, and basically obsesses over documentation of every moment. During every situation, people think about how it will be looked back on, how it will appear to the kids who see their blog about it and look at the pictures. Instant nostalgia. I can't live like that, so I won't worry too much about whether the bands I like will be made fun of in 20 years - most of them get made fun of now, anyway.

this was the topic of a creative writing class period last semester. basically that we're all too tied up in making memories and ensuring that we'll never forget what we're doing, that we never actually get around to doing the spontaneous, erratic things that are actually the most memorable.


But it's funny, this exact topic came up yesterday in the Courtney Love thread.

[EmilyRegina]

I think the article has some validity to it but the writer fails to mention that after the hair metal fashion, and before the emo atrocities were the kids who all dressed up like Kurt Cobain, Chris Cornell, et al.

I would argue that those fashion missteps were just as ridiculous as the hair metal and emo kids.

just an opinion from a dude too old to be replying to this thread. ;-)

Adam
:clap:

This is just how trends are... in any area of culture/society/media... there are so many things from the past that look ridiculous in retrospect but were totally okay and even dare I say AWESOME at the time. I don't think that discounts the contemporary value of things.

Yes, I did the Macarena at many a party and thought it was hilarious and fun. Now it seems stupid, but it was fine for that time. Yes, I wore baggy thrift store shirts and torn jeans in the 90's and claimed that Nirvana was the last band I would ever listen to. Yes, Poison and Bon Jovi and all those guys with their aqua-net hair seem so lame now, but they were awesome back then and that's all that matters.

Trends are fun while they last and then you move on. The author of this article is no genius coming up with some kind of revelation. Everything that's "cool" for a time will eventually not be cool anymore. It doesn't mean that they won't and shouldn't be enjoyed while they're around.

So if you like Fall Out Boy, or wearing tight jeans and too much eyeliner for that matter... who cares, go rock out to the the scene and enjoy it while it lasts.

[snowtires]

i could have told you this a year ago. i'm not going to sit here and pretend to be pretentious like oh i listen to better music then you i hate these bands because this article disses them. these are my favorite bands, and you can take another guess as to what generation my other favorite bands come from - yup the 80's. skid row? poison? aerosmith? mötley crüe? bon jovi? gnr? yup all of them. oh and Butch Walker - yeah I adore him, though the contradiction bother me but so be it. my favorite fashions? slouch boats of course, leggings, door knocker earrings, leg warmers, old concert shirts cut up. this is nothing new. i mean look at the state of fashion right now - it's all 80's inspired! the most recent issue of W Magazine has a spread of Gisele is horrendous 80's fashions. you can see that here (http://www.style.com/w/feat_story/061307). more on the spring 07 80's inspired runways can be seen here (http://www.style.com/trends/trend_report/011507/soeighties). then you also have to take into account Metal Skool (http://www.myspace.com/metalskool) being the hot thing to do in LA last summer. also, NY's Awesome 80's Prom (http://www.awesome80sprom.com/) party. and then look at the so-called sceen queens - Audrey Kitching (http://audrey.buzznet.com/user/photos/?id=8145101) can usually be seen in some sort of trashy 80's band shirt! Jac Vanek always hanging with some band dudes. You get the point. There's just so much going on right now pointing to the 80's you've got to be oblivious not to realize it. So, yes, sadly I am going to argee with this article.

As far as the commerciality of emo - it's starting to catch onto mainstream radio Z100 plays FOB, P!ATD, HGB, etc. all the time randomly mixed in with like Jay-Z & Akon and what not. (But really, who listens to that anymore? XM & Sirius are about ten times better and have stations made espesh for emo and hair metal.) As does MTV & MTV2, even FUSE does this now. Also, so many tours whether they be large or small have corporate sponsors now... Honestly, I forgot what I was trying to get at.

Oh and TBS reunion tour - hell yeah I'll be there haha.

hahaha metal skool is a joke. the only people who like that band are the ones who are still stuck in the era that metal skool is parodying. it's sad to say, but la has a lot of them.

[snowtires]

:clap:

This is just how trends are... in any area of culture/society/media... there are so many things from the past that look ridiculous in retrospect but were totally okay and even dare I say AWESOME at the time. I don't think that discounts the contemporary value of things.

Yes, I did the Macarena at many a party and thought it was hilarious and fun. Now it seems stupid, but it was fine for that time. Yes, I wore baggy thrift store shirts and torn jeans in the 90's and claimed that Nirvana was the last band I would ever listen to. Yes, Poison and Bon Jovi and all those guys with their aqua-net hair seem so lame now, but they were awesome back then and that's all that matters.

Trends are fun while they last and then you move on. The author of this article is no genius coming up with some kind of revelation. Everything that's "cool" for a time will eventually not be cool anymore. It doesn't mean that they won't and shouldn't be enjoyed while they're around.

So if you like Fall Out Boy, or wearing tight jeans and too much eyeliner for that matter... who cares, go rock out to the the scene and enjoy it while it lasts.

which, hopefully, will only be another week or two

the sad part about all of this, is that this discussion is even going on at all. i wish someone powerful would rename the "emo" style into something else, and just let music go back to being music, because that's the biggest problem with all of this. hair metal never spawned a fashion movement like "emo" has, and its the fashion that makes "emo" so hated, especially by elitist scenesters.

if it was just put back to being music, everyone would be happy again. well, except the "emo" kids, of course (we all know, nothing makes them happy.... ever....:eyebrow:)

i hereby rename the emo style: huge douchebag style

[AndrewStuart]

Awesome article. Everyone seems to be forgetting the good news: all of this crap music is paving the way for a new Nirvana. 12-15 year old kids across America are already looking to start bands and rebel against their older siblings awful taste in music!


Not discrediting your opinion or anything, but plenty of the music that came out of grunge was utter crap too, and not everything from the hair metal era was completely terrible either. Trust me, whatever comes along after the "emo scene" will be just as ridiculous and will give birth to just as many awful bands.

hair metal - grunge - nu metal/rap rock - emo

all of the above suffer from the same problem. the majority of the bands involved sucked.

[monkeyboyrock]

This isn't news, or even a real question. I've thought that this was the lamest look rock ever had from the moment I first saw the SECOND person wearing it (I understandably dismissed the first as some kind of a joke...). I've been saying since the beginning: Lame on that.

[EmilyRegina]

which, hopefully, will only be another week or two

HAHAHAHA

...touche`

[James to Feel]

ya think? ive been saying that shit for years... kids will look back on this period and laugh at themselves..

[elemenohpe]

every genre of music that becomes accessible to popular culture fits this "hair metal" umbrella.

the same thing was said about grunge, nu-metal, and now "emo" (as MTV has defined it).

this article is nothing but the same shit that's been written about trends in rock music since the 80s (ironically, when pop culture became truly affective of our society thanks, once again, to MTV).

if this person really wanted to write an article "Bigger Than The Sound", he should focus on the medias tendency to latch onto burgeoning genres, herald them as the saving grace of rock, and then turn on them like every trend before them. then maybe we'd see why there's so many trends that are "bigger than the sound".

pure rubbish.

[trash zoo]

the last line about The Bronx was great

[snowtires]

every genre of music that becomes accessible to popular culture fits this "hair metal" umbrella.

the same thing was said about grunge, nu-metal, and now "emo" (as MTV has defined it).

this article is nothing but the same shit that's been written about trends in rock music since the 80s (ironically, when pop culture became truly affective of our society thanks, once again, to MTV).

if this person really wanted to write an article "Bigger Than The Sound", he should focus on the medias tendency to latch onto burgeoning genres, herald them as the saving grace of rock, and then turn on them like every trend before them. then maybe we'd see why there's so many trends that are "bigger than the sound".

pure rubbish.

sooooooooomebody's been using their word of the day calendar

[siamesedream]

Awesome article. Everyone seems to be forgetting the good news: all of this crap music is paving the way for a new Nirvana. 12-15 year old kids across America are already looking to start bands and rebel against their older siblings awful taste in music!

not gonna happen...there's no underground anymore like there was then. Bands get record deals so fast now, and every band has a myspace spreading their music all over the place. There's really no time for anything to build up in the underground and then explode one day. The community sense to music is pretty much gone because if you even look at your local music scene, they probably have fans across the country from myspace. In say, 1990 the only way a kid on the east coast would hear about Nirvana would have been through a LOT of word of mouth. Maybe their friend's cousin out in Washington made their friend a tape or something. It's too easy now. In some ways it's good, but i dont know how the community aspect will ever survive with the internet.

[redindiangrl]

every genre of music that becomes accessible to popular culture fits this "hair metal" umbrella.




ella ella ella eh eh eh.


you know you were thinking it too.

[stu2006]

yeah this article is pretty much dead on, regrettably. the downfall of any musical genre comes from the inside out. scencesters give it a bad name to the general public, 13 year old girls love it, and it eventually becomes so big that it self destructs. sad, but i am already listening to albums in a "classic" sense because i hate to think of all the scenesters who will eventually ruin it all.

[snowtires]

not gonna happen...there's no underground anymore like there was then. Bands get record deals so fast now, and every band has a myspace spreading their music all over the place. There's really no time for anything to build up in the underground and then explode one day. The community sense to music is pretty much gone because if you even look at your local music scene, they probably have fans across the country from myspace. In say, 1990 the only way a kid on the east coast would hear about Nirvana would have been through a LOT of word of mouth. Maybe their friend's cousin out in Washington made their friend a tape or something. It's too easy now. In some ways it's good, but i dont know how the community aspect will ever survive with the internet.

i've gone on and on about that like a million times: the internet is killing the indie music 'scene,' by letting kids hear bands without going to see them live and by flooding the music world with absolute shit. the shitty to good band ratio is more disproportionate now than it has ever been, it has to be like 100:1 at least. twelve or thirteen years ago when i started going to shows, it was closer to about 5:1, there was always at least one good band on a bill. now if you go see a random show with bands you've never heard of, chances are they'll all blow.

the only way bands can start up a new 'underground' is to go the fugazi route and just start recording and pressing your own records, and try and get a following that way. then you can grow on your own terms, not a label's, so by the time you're ready to get on a label, you've got your shit together enough that the added recording budget will go to help you make something completely awesome, that you just wouldn't have been able to afford on your own.

[snowtires]

yeah this article is pretty much dead on, regrettably. the downfall of any musical genre comes from the inside out. scencesters give it a bad name to the general public, 13 year old girls love it, and it eventually becomes so big that it self destructs. sad, but i am already listening to albums in a "classic" sense because i hate to think of all the scenesters who will eventually ruin it all.

let's call a spade a spade here: popular genres of music fall apart solely because 13 year olds start liking them, because they are such fucking spazzes that it makes the older people who actually like and enjoy the music for what it is (not how it's packaged) start getting sick of it because it now reminds them of some little shit/little skank 13 year olds

[pleasegoodmusic]

Slow down everyone! Before we all agree that EVERY genre ever has turned into a joke, its important to realize that some genres in particlar are complete crap to begin with, while others just lose their way. I wouldn't lump punk rock and big beat in with hair metal and nu-metal. Some genres start off exciting and lose steam. Others were truly awful to begin with.

[siamesedream]

i've gone on and on about that like a million times: the internet is killing the indie music 'scene,' by letting kids hear bands without going to see them live and by flooding the music world with absolute shit. the shitty to good band ratio is more disproportionate now than it has ever been, it has to be like 100:1 at least. twelve or thirteen years ago when i started going to shows, it was closer to about 5:1, there was always at least one good band on a bill. now if you go see a random show with bands you've never heard of, chances are they'll all blow.

the only way bands can start up a new 'underground' is to go the fugazi route and just start recording and pressing your own records, and try and get a following that way. then you can grow on your own terms, not a label's, so by the time you're ready to get on a label, you've got your shit together enough that the added recording budget will go to help you make something completely awesome, that you just wouldn't have been able to afford on your own.

it's good in a way...i mean, ive gotten into most bands i like now because of the internet. you can download a band's entire catalog and really listen to everything. there are so many bands i would have missed out on because i simply dont have the money to be buying CDs

on the other hand, having everything at your fingertips leaves you with a lack of appeciation sometimes. i know i always have a list of stuff i wanna listen to, and it almost becomes like work. When i was a kid, buying one CD and listening to it over and over, i got to really absorb it. I feel like theres too much to listen to now, and i dont absorb enough of it. things sometimes need a chance to grow on you. since i still have that in me, i can download something and give it that chance over time. i feel like kids now wont do that. if it's not instantly pleasing, theyll just delete it. theyve never experienced buying a bands "experimental" CD and only loving a couple songs at first, but then it grows on you and eventually makes you look at music differently and opens all sorts of doors

[Jaynicgurl]

:clap:

This is just how trends are... in any area of culture/society/media... there are so many things from the past that look ridiculous in retrospect but were totally okay and even dare I say AWESOME at the time. I don't think that discounts the contemporary value of things.

Yes, I did the Macarena at many a party and thought it was hilarious and fun. Now it seems stupid, but it was fine for that time. Yes, I wore baggy thrift store shirts and torn jeans in the 90's and claimed that Nirvana was the last band I would ever listen to. Yes, Poison and Bon Jovi and all those guys with their aqua-net hair seem so lame now, but they were awesome back then and that's all that matters.

Trends are fun while they last and then you move on. The author of this article is no genius coming up with some kind of revelation. Everything that's "cool" for a time will eventually not be cool anymore. It doesn't mean that they won't and shouldn't be enjoyed while they're around.

So if you like Fall Out Boy, or wearing tight jeans and too much eyeliner for that matter... who cares, go rock out to the the scene and enjoy it while it lasts.

I love you.


I mean, we're making a big deal more than what it is. I wish people would put more passion like into something really needs it.

[ontheeverglow]

sooooooooomebody's been using their word of the day calendar


winner

[foisol]

I don't think TBS could be laughed at so much. It's those "fashioncore" bands like From First To Last and Eighteen Visions that have the hair and all. In either way, when these kids with their mall hair and everything grow up, I'm sure their kids'll laugh the hell out of the pictures they see.

[Keatsey]

The original article that this was talking about was actually really interesting. A quote:

“Panic! in particular - I think their musical history traces back to the first Third Eye Blind album,” he says. “That’s it. Like, the guy producing their record gave them ‘The Beatles Anthology.’ And they were very excited, but they didn’t know any of it.”

Absolutely pathetic.

[TinMan20]

im just glad it is dying off. when ever bands start to sound the same in one genre, in this case "stolen" emo, dance pop punk", its time for a change. i do want the originators to stick around however, ie TBS, Brand New, Jimmy, etc....just get P!ATD, CIWWAF garbage out of here. forever.

soo what is going to take over? i have money on indie rock

[LoadedGunX21]

i hereby rename the emo style: huge douchebag style

haha... a little harsh, but i guess it'll do

[AP_Punk]

Word.

Bad Scene, Everyone's Fault.

[Zeran]

When I saw this for the first time, I knew it had officially been taken too far.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/PunkPrincess7962/Sonny%20Moore/54fe0c1d.jpg

there are no words

[snowtires]

im just glad it is dying off. when ever bands start to sound the same in one genre, in this case "stolen" emo, dance pop punk", its time for a change. i do want the originators to stick around however, ie TBS, Brand New, Jimmy, etc....just get P!ATD, CIWWAF garbage out of here. forever.

soo what is going to take over? i have money on indie rock

i think it's gonna be electronic-ish rock. rock with synths + drum machines, or just straight up dance music. there are a lot of good electro bands around now, all it takes is one REALLY good one to set things into motion

[LPMagic]

Why care? :shrug:

- Jeff

[shoop]

yep.. how fucking embarrasing (sp). Im glad I have and will have had no part in this bullshit era whatsoever.

[Co and Ca]

There are some aspects of that article that are true, but I feel it was written to cash in on the current wave of aritcles written about 'emo'. It was just another way for them to get hits for their site. I really don't see emo as the new Hair Metal. I see flash in the pan radio rock bands being a better comparison. With all the Nickelback clone's releasing hit after hit single right now, will their next CD do as good? Like Hinder, they were at the right place at the right time. Their next CD probably won't sell shit. Anyone remember Puddle of Mudd?

[CheChe1455]

"cute is what we aim for" arguments end.

[jamesbrownsgoin]

i find this article a disgrace...mtv sucks. hello people...this is MT FUCKING V DOT FUCKING COM - the same people bringing you Cartel's Band in a bubble, the same people who ram MCR, FOB and every up and coming "wannabe" down all of our throats...and while there are aspects of this article that are true and obvious comparisons...marketing is what this country does best. I don't think Fall Out Boy is trying to appeal to pretentious hipsters or cred-police...they are making money and promoting themselves...its called striking while the iron is hot.

EVEN if I could agree with this article I would have to seriously reconsider when the author starts talking about Linkin Park being a legitimate band or artist and how a Linkin Park fan would never talk about Boys Like Girls bringing the rock or whatever...Linkin Park fans are far worse than the 14 year old girls that adore BLG...by being exposed to like rock with pretty boy bands in a few years these girls will discover some legitimate independent music....Linkin Park fans (in general) are just force fed the same BS over and over again...

and another thing about this article being bull shit...the only people who arent 15 year old girls that like Fall Out Boy and MCR that just discovered them on the radio are the same assholes that like Linkin Park...

argument about article ends here...below is just a really long synopsis of how music trends, much like fashion, come in cyles throughout the main stream and underground...im not a write and i don't claim to be so if you read it don't take it too seriously...just read it.

semi-underground, semi-original music and mainstream music always colide in cycles....80's hair metal was in the main stream and you had The Talking Heads and Joy Division and into the late 80's Pixies in your semi-underground scene yet still making a living which beget Nirvana's main stream success...bringing grunge in the main stream...you also had Michael Jackson as "the king of pop" and your punk / pop punk (read - green day) in the semi-underground but still making a living....post grunge brought us more green day and following acts like Blink 182...also Nu Metal and Rap Rock were ruling the alternative air waves....throughout this time you had the cred-police sucking radiohead off and in the pop pop pop era we had Back Street Boys and then Britney...at the turn of 2000- you had so much corporate sounding pop punk (remember SR-71 anyone? - ps their last record sounded a lot like Linkin Park...wierd?...maybe) ...anyway so much pop punk between Blink 182, Offspring, and Sum 41 that the world needed to get emotional...in the semi-underground we had a bunch of, at the time, credible bands like The Get Up Kids, Braid, etc that got a lot people into the idea of emo...although the genre had been been growing since the late 80s it was in the late 90s that emo really started to catch on as something that could make money...because of the relationship that fans formed with a certain song or band...much like people always have but because of the emotional nature of the song it was even magnified....when bands like Fall Out Boy and MCR and TBS were first starting off these bands were there idols...but they were not in the mainstream quite yet...now that TBS, and FOB are doing some what montarily successful it is easy to turn on them...and it is easy to turn on emo like its a great big hair metal recap but reality is that music just moves in cycles between what is main stream and what is underground or independent or artistic or indie or punk or whatever you want to call it....ultimately it is fans and those who actually BUY music that detemine what SELLS...no band, no marketing ploy, no corporate head...it is people (who may be swayed by the above things like sheep) it is people making the decision to buy music.

[I Shot Chicago]

i read the article from the NY Post also, and my respect for Pete Wentz just hit an all time low.

[emokid333]

Yeah. I don't know what to say lol.

[jamesbrownsgoin]

this is the kind of bull shit mtv does...they push a genre of music until it is hated then they jump on the hate band wagon until the next tide comes in to hop on...these anti emo articles are no brainer bs that has been treaded time and time again

[xdozex]

i've been saying this for a couple years now.

[altemose09]

When I saw this for the first time, I knew it had officially been taken too far.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/PunkPrincess7962/Sonny%20Moore/54fe0c1d.jpg

whenever "emo" is being talked about, this picture gets shown