Illegal Immigrants able to have drivers licences in NYC

[KarolaBloch]

What does everybody think of this?

http://nyjournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070922/NEWS05/709220370
Maybe not the best article on it. but it gets the point across.

Personally I don't like it.

[HoustonCalling]

who else is going to drive the landscaping trucks?

[Broken Parachute]

Spitzer is a complete douchebag.

[x togepi x]

why exactly is this a bad thing?

[Broken Parachute]

As if the DMV wasn't crowded enough...

[a speedo model]

I'm disappointed.

[bluecrunchy]

As if the DMV wasn't crowded enough...

nice.

[x togepi x]

ah, so it's just a minor inconvenience.

[Broken Parachute]

No, I just don't think it's fair. If they want the same rights we get, they should just become citizens. I know that a lot of people don't feel that way, but whatever.

[x togepi x]

Do you know how hard it is to be a citizen? You can't "just become" one.

[Broken Parachute]

Too bad.

[x togepi x]

it's either immigrate or starve. what choice do you expect them to take?

[Broken Parachute]

They take advantage of everything in this country without being a part of it officially. That irks me to no end. I know this is the land of the free and is a salvation for most people because they live in a place with barely any running water, but it's not our fault if their country is so poor. This is why we have so many problems in this country. People just want to let everyone into it. They aren't even taking the time to learn English anymore.

Do they even pay taxes?

[Lueda Alia]

They take advantage of everything in this country without being a part of it officially. That irks me to no end. I know this is the land of the free and is a salvation for most people because they live in a place with barely any running water, but it's not our fault if their country is so poor. This is why we have so many problems in this country. People just want to let everyone into it. They aren't even taking the time to learn English anymore.

Do they even pay taxes?
Are you serious?

As someone that has had to deal with immigration for 5 years, I'm pretty offended by what you just said. That is just so ignorant. You have no idea with how much people have to deal with to get their papers to become a landed immigrant, let alone a citizen. So please, go do a little more research before you say such things. Unless it's easier to get a status in the US, which I very much doubt.

[Broken Parachute]

Are you serious?

As someone that has had to deal with immigration for 5 years, I'm pretty offended by what you just said. That is just so ignorant. You have no idea with how much people have to deal with to get their papers to become a landed immigrant, let alone a citizen. So please, go do a little more research before you say such things. Unless it's easier to get a status in the US, which I very much doubt.So we should just let everyone in and do whatever they want?

[Lueda Alia]

So we should just let everyone in and do whatever they want?
I would have never guessed that you would be so close minded. I almost want to ask if someone hijacked John's computer because your replies in this thread are ridiculous. Sit back for a second and think about everything you said. Maybe you should go out and meet an immigrant family, to see what it's all about - to realize what they are all about and how much they really have to deal with. No, not everyone should be let it, but you shouldn't be such an asshole about it either.

Go educate yourself because what you hear and see in the media is not always very accurate. And please drop your stereotypes because it makes you sound very ignorant.

[x togepi x]

They take advantage of everything in this country without being a part of it officially. That irks me to no end. I know this is the land of the free and is a salvation for most people because they live in a place with barely any running water, but it's not our fault if their country is so poor. This is why we have so many problems in this country. People just want to let everyone into it. They aren't even taking the time to learn English anymore.

Do they even pay taxes?

I swear i wasn't going to get into this rant, but here we go.

Free trade advocates in the early 90s pushed through NAFTA which allowed free trade across the US-Mexican border. Post-NAFTA, giant companies started building huge factories called maquilladoras in border towns like Juarez Mexico. Around the same time, the Mexican government played upon a feeling in the Mexican populace that indigenous peoples were holding Mexico back from becoming a first world country and passed a law revoking the autonomy that indigenous peoples in Chiapas in other regions had over their farm land, forcing these people to pay high taxes on their land.

As the indigenous people were too poor to pay the taxes since they mainly grew food for their communities and not for selling, they were forced to move into these border towns to make money by working in the maquilladoras. Unfortunately, the maquilladoras weren't going to help the plight of these people for a few reasons. First, the companies only hired women to manufacture goods. it was insanely hard for a man to get a job in the area, so they were forced to immigrate to the US. Second, the maquilladoras only hire women between the ages of 14-20, and fire people when they reach the age of 30, which meant that a lot of women couldn't get jobs (or keep them) and were forced to immigrate to the US. Finally, these factories only paid $.50 an hour. This might sound great to someone living in a third world country, except the fact that the price of living in these border towns were almost exactly the same as in the US, meaning that people were having to pay American prices on extremely low wages.

This became a huge problem, as the size of these border towns swelled from being a few hundred thousand to the millions.

So, in all reality, it is actually our fault that they have to immigrate since it is our companies that are exploiting them. We continue to elect congress people (on both sides of the aisle) who favor free trade policies, which help cause these problems.

Unfortunately, the situation gets worse, as Congress decided to pass CAFTA, which allows American companies free trade with Central American countries like Guatemala, where the factories have learned that they can get away with paying people a quarter an hour. Experts predict that the maquilladora industry will leave Mexico for the south, which will cause a bigger influx of immigration as even the shitty jobs the Mexican women used to have will be taken from them. This is part of why we've seen a bigger emphasis on immigration in the past few years, as immigration has increased because more and more of the factories are leaving Mexico.

it's pretty hard to learn English when you can't even afford to eat.

[Broken Parachute]

I was definitely harsh and cold about it, but I've just had some bad experiences with people who can't speak English. That's not a stereotype or anything, I have just been in some bad situations.

I've not been in a good mood all day though for some personal reasons. Maybe it's best if I'm just ignored all together.

[Lueda Alia]

it's pretty hard to learn English when you can't even afford to eat.
That pretty much sums it up.

My mom went about it the "right" way. We weren't illegal immigrants, we just didn't have any status and the Government kept screwing us around. She couldn't get a job (even though has more degrees than the average person and was pretty important in our country). All we had was her savings and whatever Welfare had to give, which was only $400 per person a month. Try to live on that for years and see how great it is. Immigration destroys families/lives, if the people involved aren't well off. So for someone to sit in front of their computer and lecture all immigrants.. it's just, wow. I don't even really know where to begin.

I'll tell you this much: I slept on the floor of an empty apartment for weeks because we didn't have money to afford any furniture until my mom got a hold of some of her money. Do you have any idea what that is like, John? I can go on if you'd like, so maybe you'd realize that not all immigrants are lazy bastards that want a free pass.

[Ambulance X]

Bottom line, pay taxes, or get out.

Either that, or just abolish income tax and make everything sales tax

[Broken Parachute]

I swear i wasn't going to get into this rant, but here we go.

Free trade advocates in the early 90s pushed through NAFTA which allowed free trade across the US-Mexican border. Post-NAFTA, giant companies started building huge factories called maquilladoras in border towns like Juarez Mexico. Around the same time, the Mexican government played upon a feeling in the Mexican populace that indigenous peoples were holding Mexico back from becoming a first world country and passed a law revoking the autonomy that indigenous peoples in Chiapas in other regions had over their farm land, forcing these people to pay high taxes on their land.

As the indigenous people were too poor to pay the taxes since they mainly grew food for their communities and not for selling, they were forced to move into these border towns to make money by working in the maquilladoras. Unfortunately, the maquilladoras weren't going to help the plight of these people for a few reasons. First, the companies only hired women to manufacture goods. it was insanely hard for a man to get a job in the area, so they were forced to immigrate to the US. Second, the maquilladoras only hire women between the ages of 14-20, and fire people when they reach the age of 30, which meant that a lot of women couldn't get jobs (or keep them) and were forced to immigrate to the US. Finally, these factories only paid $.50 an hour. This might sound great to someone living in a third world country, except the fact that the price of living in these border towns were almost exactly the same as in the US, meaning that people were having to pay American prices on extremely low wages.

This became a huge problem, as the size of these border towns swelled from being a few hundred thousand to the millions.

So, in all reality, it is actually our fault that they have to immigrate since it is our companies that are exploiting them. We continue to elect congress people (on both sides of the aisle) who favor free trade policies, which help cause these problems.

Unfortunately, the situation gets worse, as Congress decided to pass CAFTA, which allows American companies free trade with Central American countries like Guatemala, where the factories have learned that they can get away with paying people a quarter an hour. Experts predict that the maquilladora industry will leave Mexico for the south, which will cause a bigger influx of immigration as even the shitty jobs the Mexican women used to have will be taken from them. This is part of why we've seen a bigger emphasis on immigration in the past few years, as immigration has increased because more and more of the factories are leaving Mexico.

it's pretty hard to learn English when you can't even afford to eat.Haha, thank you.

[Lueda Alia]

Bottom line, pay taxes, or get out.

Either that, or just abolish income tax and make everything sales tax
I very much doubt that anyone would choose to be an illegal immigrant just to avoid paying taxes. But that's just my opinion.

[x togepi x]

I was definitely harsh and cold about it, but I've just had some bad experiences with people who can't speak English. That's not a stereotype or anything, I have just been in some bad situations.

I've not been in a good mood all day though for some personal reasons. Maybe it's best if I'm just ignored all together.

I know how it is. My rant was provoked by a movie I just watched on monday so it's still kinda touchy

[Broken Parachute]

That pretty much sums it up.

My mom went about it the "right" way. We weren't illegal immigrants, we just didn't have any status and the Government kept screwing us around. She couldn't get a job (even though has more degrees than the average person and was pretty important in our country). All we had was her savings and whatever Welfare had to give, which was only $400 per person a month. Try to live on that for years and see how great it is. Immigration destroys families/lives, if the people involved aren't well off. So for someone to sit in front of their computer and lecture all immigrants.. it's just, wow. I don't even really know where to begin.

I'll tell you this much: I slept on the floor of an empty apartment for weeks because we didn't have money to afford any furniture until my mom got a hold of some of her money. Do you have any idea what that is like, John? I can go on if you'd like, so maybe you'd realize that not all immigrants are lazy bastards that want a free pass.What country did you come from?

[Lueda Alia]

What country did you come from?
Haha have you lost your brain today? You know what my background is.

[Ambulance X]

I very much doubt that anyone would choose to be an illegal immigrant just to avoid paying taxes. But that's just my opinion.

I might be missing your point, but I don't care. I don't go to work every day so that I can pay for some illegal immigrant that is contributing nothing to our society besides clean bathrooms. Pay taxes, or get out.

[Broken Parachute]

I know how it is. My rant was provoked by a movie I just watched on monday so it's still kinda touchyFor example, my mom was waiting for a parking spot for literally about ten minutes. The spot opens up and some Russian woman cuts her off and just grabs the spot. So my mom opens her window and asked the woman what she was doing and I kid you not she said, "Someone take my spot, I take your spot." So my mom called her an asshole, and the woman spit on my car. An isolated incident, but nonetheless, still annoying as all hell.

[Broken Parachute]

Haha have you lost your brain today? You know what my background is.Albania?

I'm not using this as a cop out for my impertinence, but today has just been a bad day all around.

[Lueda Alia]

I might be missing your point, but I don't care. I don't go to work every day so that I can pay for some illegal immigrant that is contributing nothing to our society besides clean bathrooms. Pay taxes, or get out.
If they could get a status/become citizens, they would. But it's not that easy. What I'm trying to say is, they don't choose not to pay taxes because they don't want to. I'm sure they'd be more than willing to pay taxes if they could get their citizenship.

And go easy with those stereotypes and the degrading. I don't care if no one on this forum is an "illegal immigrant" - you still have no right to degrade the people out there that are.

[Broken Parachute]

I wouldn't go as far as saying they contribute nothing besides clean bathrooms or whatever. Mexicans are probably the hardest working people I've ever seen.

[Lueda Alia]

Albania?

I'm not using this as a cop out for my impertinence, but today has just been a bad day all around.
Yes.

Sorry to hear about your day, but try not to stereotype people because not everyone is the same. As for your mom's incident, well.. not too long ago, I went to the beer store and when I got out, these kids that had parked next to me, had spit all over the side of the car (they were drunk). It was pretty annoying and I was mad, but it would have been pretty ignorant of me to assume that every guy their age would have done the same thing/is the same, don't you think?

[Ambulance X]

I would have no problem with them if they paid taxes. Maybe the solution is to make it easier for them to gain citizenship. It's difficult to ease restrictions though with the threat of terrorism lurking outside of our borders, and we only have so many resources in this country. I would be satisfied if most taxes were collected through sales tax.

[Broken Parachute]

Yes.

Sorry to hear about your day, but try not to stereotype people because not everyone is the same. As for your mom's incident, well.. not too long ago, I went to the beer store and when I got out, these kids that had parked next to me, had spit all over the side of the car (they were drunk). It was pretty annoying and I was mad, but it would have been pretty ignorant of me to assume that every guy their age would have done the same thing/is the same, don't you think?Understood and agreed.

[Lueda Alia]

I would have no problem with them if they paid taxes. Maybe the solution is to make it easier for them to gain citizenship. It's difficult to ease restrictions though with the threat of terrorism lurking outside of our borders, and we only have so many resources in this country. I would be satisfied if most taxes were collected through sales tax.
Yeah, it would be so much better for everyone if people could get their citizenship easier. In my experience, the Government tends to be very unfair when it comes to handing out legal status to the right people. Seriously, so many sketchy people kept getting their citizenship faster than my mom and me. It was unbelievable.

I think what really needs to be fixed is the way the Government handles immigration. Not only in the US, but Canada too even though we're nicer about it here. Still far from perfect though.

[Broken Parachute]

The US government sucks at something? Since when!?

[close2zero]

I would have no problem with them if they paid taxes. Maybe the solution is to make it easier for them to gain citizenship. It's difficult to ease restrictions though with the threat of terrorism lurking outside of our borders, and we only have so many resources in this country. I would be satisfied if most taxes were collected through sales tax.
sales tax go to state and local government. income tax goes to the federal government, so there's no point in raising sales tax.

also, it's not like illegal immigrants get government benefits. i think most of them would rather pay taxes and get those benefits than none at all. some people here are acting like they do this by choice, but have no idea what it's like to be in their shoes.

[Ambulance X]

sales tax go to state and local government. income tax goes to the federal government, so there's no point in raising sales tax.

also, it's not like illegal immigrants get government benefits. i think most of them would rather pay taxes and get those benefits than none at all. some people here are acting like they do this by choice, but have no idea what it's like to be in their shoes.

The point is that we don't have to keep that system. It could be worked out so that sales tax is raised a ton and income tax is abolished, and a percentage of sales tax can go to state, and the rest can go to federal.

[close2zero]

The point is that we don't have to keep that system. It could be worked out so that sales tax is raised a ton and income tax is abolished, and a percentage of sales tax can go to state, and the rest can go to federal.
that's ridiculous. sales tax in california is already at 7.25 percent. what about those with low income? how will they be able to afford their needs if sales tax were raised a ton? sure their paychecks won't be getting taxed, but it'll be harder to make a living that way. we have a taxing system that works fine right now. what needs to be worked on is the immigration system, not the taxes.

[Ambulance X]

that's ridiculous. sales tax in california is already at 7.25 percent. what about those with low income? how will they be able to afford their needs if sales tax were raised a ton? sure their paychecks won't be getting taxed, but it'll be harder to make a living that way. we have a taxing system that works fine right now. what needs to be worked on is the immigration system, not the taxes.

Keep their receipts and file a return, or give them an exemption of some sort.

[KarolaBloch]

If you are an illegal immigrant.. i don't think you should have a liscence cause you are NOT a US citizen, and you also shouldn't have many of the same rights as citizens. My economics teacher is a newly shipped immigrant... she admits that Illegal Immigrants cost our country money... yes they are doing lots of jobs that are shitty that most americans wouldn't WANT to do... but the amount they pay compared to the amount they use for healthcare = big cost for gov and tax payers.

[Love As Arson]

If you are an illegal immigrant.. i don't think you should have a liscence cause you are NOT a US citizen, and you also shouldn't have many of the same rights as citizens. My economics teacher is a newly shipped immigrant... she admits that Illegal Immigrants cost our country money... yes they are doing lots of jobs that are shitty that most americans wouldn't WANT to do... but the amount they pay compared to the amount they use for healthcare = big cost for gov and tax payers.
What of the seven billion dollars they contribute to social security? Further, if one agrees that human rights exist, then they should not be diminished due to arbitrary borders.

[x togepi x]

If you are an illegal immigrant.. i don't think you should have a liscence cause you are NOT a US citizen, and you also shouldn't have many of the same rights as citizens. My economics teacher is a newly shipped immigrant... she admits that Illegal Immigrants cost our country money... yes they are doing lots of jobs that are shitty that most americans wouldn't WANT to do... but the amount they pay compared to the amount they use for healthcare = big cost for gov and tax payers.

NAFTA costs us way more money than immigrants do, and the only reason illegal immigrants cost us money is because they're not legalized, so they can't really pay taxes to pay for the social services they use. I think the IRS even did a study once claiming that if the illegal immigrants were legalized, they'd provide more than enough tax revenue to make up for the so-called drain they cause.

It's important to note that many of the rich avoid paying taxes through legal loopholes...would you say that they are costing us money?

[doomcrs04]

No, I just don't think it's fair. If they want the same rights we get, they should just become citizens. I know that a lot of people don't feel that way, but whatever.
It took my mom 12 years and 2 pardon periods to become a citizen, it isn't that easy.

As for taxes, most illegal immigrants do pay them. They do it because INS is more willing to grant residency to those who are contributing memebers of society, than those who never give back to the system.