How horrible...

[areyoukiddingme]

Is it that the US is in debt nine trillion dollars, and that Bush still wants to spend money for this war?

[tambam]

It's because he's a moron. Surprise, surprise.

[aminorthreat55]

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter."

[skanking4u20]

he doesn't want to pull out and lose the war despite the numerous amount of casualties of American and civilians dieing almost everyday he wants to prove to every one that America is the biggest power on earth, on top of the whole oil game because in this society who has the most money has the power and who has the power controls all thats and who helps keep that power don't matter at all we are all just fucking pawns

[atticus1492]

he doesn't want to pull out and lose the war despite the numerous amount of casualties of American and civilians dieing almost everyday he wants to prove to every one that America is the biggest power on earth, on top of the whole oil game because in this society who has the most money has the power and who has the power controls all thats and who helps keep that power don't matter at all we are all just fucking pawns

This is just painful to read.

[aminorthreat55]

I just went to the Fiscal Wake-Up Tour, a program run by The Concord Coalition and the Government Accountability Office. America's unfunded future financial obligations are $53,000,000,000,000. How awesome is that. That's $170,000 a citizen. Awesome.

[and we whisper]

...and to think we had a surplus of $236 billion dollars in 2000. Not to mention the unemployment's risen by .3% and only 3 million jobs have been added since he's been in office (worst record of any US President in 70 years).

[aminorthreat55]

I'm currently writing a paper on the media's limited coverage of this issue and holy shit is it painful to explain the insane clusterfuck that would occur if we don't get this shit under control.

[rikfrommf]

debt is a part of government. that "surplus" was for the year I believe not the overall debt. Do you really want a government that works like a corporation?

[livefromDC]

I thought it was funny that Bush could continually ask for so much for the war and at the same time say that what Congress wanted for SCHIP was too much.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

I just went to the Fiscal Wake-Up Tour, a program run by The Concord Coalition and the Government Accountability Office. America's unfunded future financial obligations are $53,000,000,000,000. How awesome is that. That's $170,000 a citizen. Awesome.

This is pretty exciting. Can't wait.

[boykosaurus]

debt is a part of government. that "surplus" was for the year I believe not the overall debt. Do you really want a government that works like a corporation?

I want a government that is fiscally responsible

[we are cured]

...and to think we had a surplus of $236 billion dollars in 2000. Not to mention the unemployment's risen by .3% and only 3 million jobs have been added since he's been in office (worst record of any US President in 70 years).

budget surplus and external financial debt are two completely different numbers.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

I want a government that is fiscally responsible

I want to know how long you have been waiting to say fiscally.

[aminorthreat55]

budget surplus and external financial debt are two completely different numbers.
I don't think she's suggesting that they aren't, but rather that we had a surplus and were therefore on the path to decreasing the debt not too long ago. Keyword: think

[selftitled85]

yeah well its also our own fault.

who here would vote for a president to raise taxes???

you can stop the war and that will curb our spending and possibly lower our debt somewhat...but the only real way we can beat the debt is to raise taxes. this means keep the luxury tax but also raise taxes for everyone. unfortunately most people are not willing to allow this...and so we will be fucked.

[aminorthreat55]

who here would vote for a president to raise taxes???
Me.

[selftitled85]

Me.

haha i would too. but im sure most of the country wouldnt. not to mention a political party would never endorse you to say "hey lets raise taxes!"

i worked on a cigarette tax project this semester to find out how much of a tax in cigs in va would be needed to raise tax revenues by 500 million. it would be a raise of about $.80 per pack for just va and revenues would be up 500 mil. just imagine a tax like that around the country.

[aminorthreat55]

haha i would too. but im sure most of the country wouldnt. not to mention a political party would never endorse you to say "hey lets raise taxes!"

i worked on a cigarette tax project this semester to find out how much of a tax in cigs in va would be needed to raise tax revenues by 500 million. it would be a raise of about $.80 per pack for just va and revenues would be up 500 mil. just imagine a tax like that around the country.
It's really incredible if it is actually done properly. Here in MD, Governor O'Malley is proposing a $1 per pack increase to eliminate more than a third of the $1.5 billion deficit.

[selftitled85]

It's really incredible if it is actually done properly. Here in MD, Governor O'Malley is proposing a $1 per pack increase to eliminate more than a third of the $1.5 billion deficit.

how much of a tax is already on cigarettes there? it was virtually non existant in va at like .30 a pack. a few years ago it was as low as .025 per pack. freaking ridiculous.

[bossman calling]

It's really incredible if it is actually done properly. Here in MD, Governor O'Malley is proposing a $1 per pack increase to eliminate more than a third of the $1.5 billion deficit.
Except cigarette taxes are highly regressive, and thus are not a long term solution for anything. And if O'Malley and the legislature keep increasing spending as fast as they are doing, they are going to find themselves right back in the same hole in a few years.

[bossman calling]

...and to think we had a surplus of $236 billion dollars in 2000. Not to mention the unemployment's risen by .3% and only 3 million jobs have been added since he's been in office (worst record of any US President in 70 years).
Not only is there a huge difference in the debt and the deficit/surplus, but the unemployment figure is still within "full employment" range (meaning .3% doesn't really mean a thing), and your figure on jobs added is totally false: 8.35 million jobs have been created since August of 2003, and jobs have grown for 51 consecutive months, which is the longest period of sustained growth in the history of DOL employment surveys.

[bossman calling]

PS I think it's ridiculous that we have a debt that high, but adding a ton of taxes won't bring in more money in the long run. If that were the case, there wouldn't have been a debt when the tax rates were as high as 90% in some areas.

[Love As Arson]

I'm currently writing a paper on the media's limited coverage of this issue and holy shit is it painful to explain the insane clusterfuck that would occur if we don't get this shit under control.
Agreed. Some economists have said that this, along with the negative developments in the housing markets, could lead to a crisis worse than that of the great depression.

[aminorthreat55]

Except cigarette taxes are highly regressive, and thus are not a long term solution for anything. And if O'Malley and the legislature keep increasing spending as fast as they are doing, they are going to find themselves right back in the same hole in a few years.
Obviously, most politicians don't know what those are.

[aminorthreat55]

PS I think it's ridiculous that we have a debt that high, but adding a ton of taxes won't bring in more money in the long run. If that were the case, there wouldn't have been a debt when the tax rates were as high as 90% in some areas.
That's an incorrect assumption because it considers only one side of the revenue/expenditure equation and does not account for the differences in dozens of other factors that need to be equivalent for that statement to hold true.

[aminorthreat55]

Agreed. Some economists have said that this, along with the negative developments in the housing markets, could lead to a crisis worse than that of the great depression.
Compounding interest is a bitch like that.

[bossman calling]

Obviously, most politicians don't know what those are.
Especially O'Malley.

That's an incorrect assumption because it considers only one side of the revenue/expenditure equation and does not account for the differences in dozens of other factors that need to be equivalent for that statement to hold true.
Could you elaborate on that? I'm actually really interested.

[asmolitor]

budget surplus and external financial debt are two completely different numbers.

bingo bango.

...and to think we had a surplus of $236 billion dollars in 2000. Not to mention the unemployment's risen by .3% and only 3 million jobs have been added since he's been in office (worst record of any US President in 70 years).

sigh.

because george w. bush was responsible for the burst of the dot-com bubble, corporate accounting scandals, (dare i say, timberwolf?) 9/11, rising commodity prices - riiiight... numerous factors like this (and more) had more to do with the reversal of the budget balance than the scapegoat himself.

however, there's not much to be said about post-iraq implementation, as the subsequent deficits from 2003-now make up probably around 10% of that deficit off-hand without doing the math. but then again, no president since truman has been able to reverse the growth of the national debt - not even clinton with his surpluses.

my opinion on the matter is that the debt has essentially become intangible, as it hasn't been paid off in 150(?)+ years, with any payments just reducing that year's interest due. also, there's not an incredibly feasible way to pay off the national debt, or hope to really reduce it, since even a budget surpluses for, say, a presidential term, would only make a small dent - and even then, the interest would likely just catch back up. plus, as much of a ticking timebomb as deficit spending is - it allows for social programs to exist, and... here's the next rant topic... it keeps social security at a surplus. (for now.)

[we are cured]

I don't think she's suggesting that they aren't, but rather that we had a surplus and were therefore on the path to decreasing the debt not too long ago. Keyword: think

i dont believe that budget surplus would be used to decrease our national debt...we've shown that we can be successful in running a global credit economy, as both a debtor and a creditor.