uk woman arrested in the Sudan

[selftitled85]

for letting 8 year old kids in her class name the class teddy bear Mohammed. She was sentenced to 15 days jail time and expulsion. Supposedly there were protests saying the punishment was too light and should have been death or at least 40 lashes.

Freaking nuts.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071130/pl_afp/sudanbritainreligiondiplomacyus

[Nevuk]

Last I heard she was deported.

[youcomebeforeyo]

^ Jail then deportation...

The woman probably should have had more sense than to name anything Muhamed in such a devout nation (I mean remember the controversey around the Dutch cartoons?) but it's definately an extreme case of Shariah law.

At least she was spared lashes.

[lew_1987]

anyone heard about the saudi woman who got gang raped and subsequently arrested?

[senatorlamb]

Apparently there have been marches and protests in Sudan from thousands who want to see her executed. Disgusting. The whole incident is outrageous. This culture is backwards and barbaric. Fuck it and fuck it good. We are at war with Islamic fundamentalism, it's just a matter of fighting it the right way. Now of course, there will be liberals on AP who love to defend anything foreign as long as it means ragging on Christianity or the West, but that's expected. To me, this hardline Islamic culture is a scourge on the Earth: it is a danger to reason, science, modernity, democracy, and liberalism.

[lew_1987]

i believe its gone too far to just say 'it's their religion/culture'. i now think its becoming a human rights issue.

[selftitled85]

i believe its gone too far to just say 'it's their religion/culture'. i now think its becoming a human rights issue.

yeah above all it is a human rights issue. and the fact is to be able to make any leeway human rights wise...you need to flush out the fundamentalists. those are the ones who hold a lot of the power and influence over the government.

[tambam]

Wow, talk about taking things too seriously.

[senatorlamb]

It does indeed have a religious/cultural aspect to it. In the United States and the West we have the ability to criticize, question, and yes, even mock religious institutions. We don't take people we disagree with or who we feel did something against a religion and demand they be given lashes, or imprisoned, or even killed. It is ridiculous.

[EasySkankin]

i believe its gone too far to just say 'it's their religion/culture'.


... You know who Muhammad is, right?

I agree with senatorlamb

I'd be scared as hell to live anywhere near that place

[senatorlamb]

She is very stupid obviously.

However this is a total fucking disgrace. We shouldn't be standing for such stupidity imo.

She is a bit dumb, yeah. It's obvious you don't go naming shit after the Prophet's name though from what I hear, it was in honor of a student named Muhammed. Regardless, the reaction, the punishment, and the calls for her death are some of the most barbaric things I ever heard.

[x togepi x]

there's not really anything we can do about it. in the current political environment, reform has to be grassroots.

[lew_1987]

... You know who Muhammad is, right?

I agree with senatorlamb

I'd be scared as hell to live anywhere near that place

did you not see the words 'just say' in my sentence?

[senatorlamb]

there's not really anything we can do about it. in the current political environment, reform has to be grassroots.

If I was President, and they gave her 40 lashes like they originally wanted, and she was American...I would have fucked that country over good.

[pinkzeppelin182]

Yeah, I've heard a lot on the way some of the government and parts of the extremist Islamic culture is in the Sudan from my grandmother. She's very well educated on it and is very involve with "The Lost Boys of Sudan." It's crazy to see some of this in the news. Usually I hear about it from her.

[x togepi x]

If I was President, and they gave her 40 lashes like they originally wanted, and she was American...I would have fucked that country over good.

yeah okay, we attack them, get ourselves into another war, and the populace becomes more fundamentalist which makes themselves worse, all the while, we hamstring reformers within the country by putting them in the situation where they either have to support the invaders, which alienates them from the populace who would probably be anti-invaders, or they could choose to support their fundamentalist government.

[senatorlamb]

yeah okay, we attack them, get ourselves into another war, and the populace becomes more fundamentalist which makes themselves worse, all the while, we hamstring reformers within the country by putting them in the situation where they either have to support the invaders, which alienates them from the populace who would probably be anti-invaders, or they could choose to support their fundamentalist government.

International pressure, threat of sanctions, and use of the UN would be my initial strategy.

[x togepi x]

International pressure, threat of sanctions, and use of the UN would be my initial strategy.

doesn't North Korea and Iraq prove the ineffectiveness of sanctions in this situation?

[senatorlamb]

doesn't North Korea and Iraq prove the ineffectiveness of sanctions in this situation?

Different situation. Sudan isn't willing to go to the mat over a teddy bear. This is an embarrassment to their country and the international community is watching. Considering they are looking to build up their country, and already have the issue over Darfur, they are not looking for more attention.

[x togepi x]

Different situation. Sudan isn't willing to go to the mat over a teddy bear. This is an embarrassment to their country and the international community is watching. Considering they are looking to build up their country, and already have the issue over Darfur, they are not looking for more attention.

i thought you were referring to reforming the government itself

[youcomebeforeyo]

International pressure, threat of sanctions, and use of the UN would be my initial strategy.

Sudan hits back, decides to not allow the deploying of the UN Darfur force. Humanitarian situation there worsens with the withdrawl of the African Union and no peace keeping presence. Millions more civilians die.

Sudan do hold some leverage.

[senatorlamb]

Sudan hits back, decides to not allow the deploying of the UN Darfur force. Humanitarian situation there worsens with the withdrawl of the African Union and no peace keeping presence. Millions more civilians die.

Sudan do hold some leverage.

Bring it on. Get world leaders to denounce them. Pass UN resolutions condemning them. Threaten a reduction of aid. Threaten to boycott the Beijing Olympics unless China (with their energy ties and investment in Sudan's infrastructure) gets on their back.

I wouldn't put this on the table right away, but through diplomatic channels, I would make clear that if she so much gets a scratch I would bury them.

So far I'm not impressed with Prime Minister Brown's leadership. WWMTD? She showed the world that Great Britain had some fight left in them.

[captainhampton]

Bring it on. Get world leaders to denounce them. Pass UN resolutions condemning them. Threaten a reduction of aid. Threaten to boycott the Beijing Olympics unless China (with their energy ties and investment in Sudan's infrastructure) gets on their back.

I wouldn't put this on the table right away, but through diplomatic channels, I would make clear that if she so much gets a scratch I would bury them.

So far I'm not impressed with Prime Minister Brown's leadership. WWMTD? She showed the world that Great Britain had some fight left in them.

NOOOOO on the Olympic boycott. every athlete who is working hard towards the Olympics deserves their chance and it is an event where global politics should be put aside.

[senatorlamb]

NOOOOO on the Olympic boycott. every athlete who is working hard towards the Olympics deserves their chance and it is an event where global politics should be put aside.

It's an option. I wouldn't want to, believe me, but it would be in the cards. China wants these games more than anything, we could play them the right way since they have significant clout over Sudan. Bottom line, this poor teacher won't receive the lashes but will still be in danger and live in a prison in probably terrible conditions for at least two weeks. All over a freakin' teddy bear. Something tells me if this woman was American, Sudan wouldn't have the balls to do it. I'm reading some of the messages from Britons on the BBC website and they seemed pretty incensed Sudan is doing this to one of their citizens. Brown needs to show some balls. They should NOT get away with this.

[captainhampton]

It's an option. I wouldn't want to, believe me, but it would be in the cards. China wants these games more than anything, we could play them the right way since they have significant clout over Sudan. Bottom line, this poor teacher won't receive the lashes but will still be in danger and live in a prison in probably terrible conditions for at least two weeks. All over a freakin' teddy bear. Something tells me if this woman was American, Sudan wouldn't have the balls to do it. I'm reading some of the messages from Britons on the BBC website and they seemed pretty incensed Sudan is doing this to one of their citizens. Brown needs to show some balls. They should NOT get away with this.

i don't disagree with you, but I think the games are a place where we can put global politics aside. athletes dreams should not be crushed because of global affairs between nations. it was a mistake in 1980 and would be in 2008 or any other games.

[Roboman]

anyone heard about the saudi woman who got gang raped and subsequently arrested?

Yeah I believe I read an article about that...and it's completely despicable. I seem to remember that unless there were three male witnesses, an accusation of rape held no water. So unbelievable, and one of the reasons (along with the thread topic) why I don't understand/like Islam.

[atticus1492]

NOOOOO on the Olympic boycott. every athlete who is working hard towards the Olympics deserves their chance and it is an event where global politics should be put aside.

lol @ all the things you could have said in this thread.

[senatorlamb]

Yeah I believe I read an article about that...and it's completely despicable. I seem to remember that unless there were three male witnesses, an accusation of rape held no water. So unbelievable, and one of the reasons (along with the thread topic) why I don't understand/like Islam.

And Saudi Arabia has been funding the spread of this Wahhabbi, Salafist interpretation of Islam all across the Muslim world, particularly in the form of Madrassas all across Pakistan and South East Asia; mainly to combat Iran's Shia influence and to continue the dominance of a Saudi centered view of Islam. One of the reasons why the region has become more radicalized. Not to mention that some of our policies have come back to bite us in the ass.

[captainhampton]

lol @ all the things you could have said in this thread.

what could i have said?

[lew_1987]

Yeah I believe I read an article about that...and it's completely despicable. I seem to remember that unless there were three male witnesses, an accusation of rape held no water. So unbelievable, and one of the reasons (along with the thread topic) why I don't understand/like Islam.

from what i've read she was arrested for adultery, because she was sitting in the car of another man when she was attacked. by their beliefs, you are not allowed any kind of intimate contact/relationship with any man other than your husband. she tried to appeal and got her sentence and number of lashings doubled, because supposedly she was making a 'mockery' of the justice system.

[open mind]

as fucked up as sudan is these days sanctions will do nothing but hurt people who have nothing to do with policy decisions there and the same goes for reducing aid.

[Love As Arson]

Apparently there have been marches and protests in Sudan from thousands who want to see her executed. Disgusting. The whole incident is outrageous. This culture is backwards and barbaric. Fuck it and fuck it good. We are at war with Islamic fundamentalism, it's just a matter of fighting it the right way.
I imagine that the reason this is politically viable has a great deal to do with the "war with Islamic fundamentalism". One can see how the leaders present this as evidence of the west's disrespect, then point out that there are intervening western powers in the region, whose goal is to transform their culture, by its own admission.

[youcomebeforeyo]

NOOOOO on the Olympic boycott. every athlete who is working hard towards the Olympics deserves their chance and it is an event where global politics should be put aside.

Are you a supporter of using sanctions?

Because then I would find your positions almost at odds with each other.

[captainhampton]

Are you a supporter of using sanctions?

Because then I would find your positions almost at odds with each other.

no sanctions usually do nothing

[ammar]

from what i've read she was arrested for adultery, because she was sitting in the car of another man when she was attacked. by their beliefs, you are not allowed any kind of intimate contact/relationship with any man other than your husband. she tried to appeal and got her sentence and number of lashings doubled, because supposedly she was making a 'mockery' of the justice system.
Yes, she was committing adultery, that is what shes being charged for, not the rape. The rapists are being charged in another court.
Damn people read up before making accusations

[lew_1987]

Yes, she was committing adultery, that is what shes being charged for, not the rape. The rapists are being charged in another court.
Damn people read up before making accusations

what the fuck? i take it you didn't read my post then? or are you not talking about me.