bands with the best fans

[xfantabulousx]

what shows has everyone been to that the fans have been particularly non-annoying?

in my opinion, taking back sunday fans seem pretty cool. them or mindless self indulgence.

[KatieKutthroat.]

Honestly, and I'm not trying to be a total bitch here, but every band has some cool fans and some annoying fans. I couldn't find one band that has fans that are almost all not annoying.

Just sayin'.

[Starbursting]

Woah, totall opposite as the other thread, lykk wtffffff.

I agree with Katie.

This thread is very close to pointless, haha.

[noisefloor1989]

i dont think it has that much to do with who the band is or what particular show you're at, rather where you're standing...

i saw a show with

chiodos
boys night out
armor for sleep

in that order, and we were two feet from the stage for chiodos, but after losing my bra and about eight pounds of pure sweat, i moved back for BNO's set, because i actually wanted to ENJOY the show.

the people in the front are typically assholes.

[polock]

Do Make Say Think. When I saw them everyone was cool friendly etc.. no assholes protecting their girlfriends, no image just people their to enjoy music.

i hate those guys with a passion

[S9Dallasoz]

no assholes protecting their girlfriends

Damn Spill Canvas/ Daphne Loves Derby show...

hate those dudes.

[x togepi x]

ska bands generally have good fans.

[cereal4life]

i hate those guys with a passion

I completely agree, I really severely dislike those dudes. Hate is a strong word to use...haha

[williek311]

ETID fans.

[noisefloor1989]

Do Make Say Think. When I saw them everyone was cool friendly etc.. no assholes protecting their girlfriends, no image just people their to enjoy music.

the ones who stand in FRONT, noless.
my ex boyfriend did that at a show with his new girlfriend and chose to stand directly next to me and the people i was with.
his lovely girlfriend got an elbow to the face at one point during Chiodos' set, and i had a hard time feeling bad about it.

[emericagal182]

i hate those guys with a passion

me too

[Dre Okorley]

Usually bands with very catch singalongs have great fans. But of course you'll have assholes at every show, they just express it in different ways.

[Brokenhill]

Pink Floyd has the best fans.

[Yes. And?]

Also Mindless Self Indulgence make some of the worst music I've heard in a long time.And their fans are awful. I did enjoy msi.net's raid on an MCR board though. lol, that was good.

Pink Floyd has the best fans.
rofl
What 40 year old men who think good music hasn't been made it twenty years?
Let's not forget creepy 16 year old outcasts in ratty Led Zeppelin shirts who spend their time playing Dungeons and Dragons...or attempting to play Stairway to Heaven.

[El_Jeffe]

pretty much all the traditional ska & reggae bands i see here have great fans. no one gives a crap about fashion or image, everyone's really relaxed & is just there to have a good time & enjoy the tunes. personal space isn't a problem, everyone's respectful & gives one another room to move/dance. we're all just there for the love of music

[zooyorker182]

Haha my friend got hit in the eye with ice at a paramore show by someone throwing icecubes at ppl

[HangsLikeHeaven]

Pink Floyd has the best fans.

Give it up already. You've never been to a show in your life, either. Shut the fuck up.

[Yes. And?]

Thank you. Nothing against fanboys/girls, but seriously. Give it a fucking rest, AFG.

[Brokenhill]

Give it up already. You've never been to a show in your life, either. Shut the fuck up.


You don't have to go to shows to know there fans.

I talk to floydians everyday...

[Brokenhill]

Word. AFG hasn't even been to a show because his parents are scared the devil will be there yet he thinks he knows about this. Such an idiot.


I'm allowed to go to shows.

[HangsLikeHeaven]

You don't have to go to shows to know there fans.

I talk to floydians everyday...

Of course fans of PF will say that. Where is your logic? You ask someone who humps FOB, they'll clearly agree that they have the best fans.

And learn the fucking english language.

[Yes. And?]

Of course fans of PF will say that. Where is your logic? You ask someone who humps FOB, they'll clearly agree that they have the best fans.

And learn the fucking english language.
I love this guy.:-D

[Brokenhill]

But PF has deep, respectful, non-annoying fans who actually "know a thing or 2" about music. And the main age is 20-50...so that's a plus.

+ I'm not saying that this can't be found with any other bands' fans...but seeing as PF are my favorite band, of course i'm going to say they have the best fans.

[Brokenhill]

And I know the english language, but on the internet, proper grammar or spelling isn't needed.

[Yes. And?]

I'm sure some of those 20-50 year olds would just luv to meet you.;-)

[Brokenhill]

They probably would...

[Yes. And?]

lol, I've seen some people act like,
"I listen to Radiohead, so I listen gud muzik, and I am automatically above you, case closed."

Yeah..but you also listen to Senses Fail.
:lol:

[summer skin]

i dont think it has that much to do with who the band is or what particular show you're at, rather where you're standing...

i saw a show with

chiodos
boys night out
armor for sleep

in that order, and we were two feet from the stage for chiodos, but after losing my bra and about eight pounds of pure sweat, i moved back for BNO's set, because i actually wanted to ENJOY the show.

the people in the front are typically assholes.
WORST VISUAL EVER. THANKS.

[Brokenhill]

Every once in a while...

So?

Doesn't mean anything.

[Brokenhill]

Let's be honest. I think they really wouldn't care what kind of people there fan's are.

[Yes. And?]

Probably not. And Thursday sure as hell wouldn't.

[Yes. And?]

Bands with principals care very much who their fans are.

Edit: There as no need for that apostrophe in fans, AFG.

[Brokenhill]

This isn't the view's of the band but in a PF song, the lyric says:

Are there any queers in the theater tonight?
Get them up against the wall!
Get, them, all!

[Yes. And?]

This isn't the view's of the band but in a PF song, the lyric says:

Are there any queers in the theater tonight?
Get them up against the wall!
Get, them, all!
There's one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me,
Get him up against the wall!
Get them all!
That one looks Jewish!
And that one's a coon!
Who let all of this riff-raff into the room?
There's one smoking a joint,
And another with spots!
If I had my way,
I'd have all of you shot!
...and your point is?

[Brokenhill]

Probably not. And Thursday sure as hell wouldn't.


Prove it.

[Brokenhill]

...and your point is?


To Ben calling me "AFH"

[Yes. And?]

Prove it.
Paris In Flames is about gay rights. Either the Stonewall Riots or a gay friend of Geoff's, I can't quite remember.

Oh and: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfTw39QTolY&feature=related

[Yes. And?]

To Ben calling me "AFH"
You just said those lyrics don't reflect PF's thinking.
So how would you being a homophobe be okay?

[Yes. And?]

God, you're dense.

[Brokenhill]

If he's all about "Human Rights" than he shouldn't mind my opinions, as a human, I have the right to my own opinions.

[summer skin]

Didn't he already get banned once for being such a flaming homophobe?

[HangsLikeHeaven]

HAHAHA AFH. pwned

[wesgemm08]

Converge

[Yes. And?]

If he's all about "Human Rights" than he shouldn't mind my opinions, as a human, I have the right to my own opinions.
:wallbash:

[Brokenhill]

You just said those lyrics don't reflect PF's thinking.
So how would you being a homophobe be okay?


I know this is hard for you to understand, but i'll try once again. Just for you...now read it nice and slow, and you might be able to get it.

Being against homosexuality doesn't mean i'm a homophobe. I am not scared of them or afraid to be around them, etc.

And it's "ok" to be against it, because God's against it, therefore I should be too.

1 Chorinthians 6:9.

You call yourself a Christian yet can't read and understand that verse, and then abide by it?

[summer skin]

If he's all about "Human Rights" than he shouldn't mind my opinions, as a human, I have the right to my own opinions.
But when your opinion is hatred then there is no respect for you.

[Shiny_Boots]

Radiohead are my favourite band but their fans are either moronic mainstream noobs or total elitists who solely listen to Radiohead.

i agree. and i would like to think i would fall somewhere in the middle :/

teh thommert is teh sexx!

[summer skin]

I know this is hard for you to understand, but i'll try once again. Just for you...now read it nice and slow, and you might be able to get it.

Being against homosexuality doesn't mean i'm a homophobe. I am not scared of them or afraid to be around them, etc.

And it's "ok" to be against it, because God's against it, therefore I should be too.

1 Chorinthians 6:9.

You call yourself a Christian yet can't read and understand that verse, and then abide by it?
According to the bible, no sin is greater than another. So why should you treat a homosexual worse than you would a liar?

[Yes. And?]

I know this is hard for you to understand, but i'll try once again. Just for you...now read it nice and slow, and you might be able to get it.

Being against homosexuality doesn't mean i'm a homophobe. I am not scared of them or afraid to be around them, etc.

And it's "ok" to be against it, because well God's against it, therefore I should be too.

1 Chorinthians 6:9.

You call yourself a Christian yet can't read and understand that verse, and then abide by it?
The least you could do is spell it right.

I do not revolve my life around a badly translated outdated text. And neither do you.

[Brokenhill]

But when your opinion is hatred then there is no respect for you.


It's not like i'm physically harming them.

[summer skin]

It's not like i'm physically harming them.
Neither are KKK members when they burn crosses.

[Yes. And?]

It's not like i'm physically harming them.
Hatred/bigotry/prejudice does not have to be physical. Such sentiments are what often lead to violence, however.

[Brokenhill]

The least you could do is spell it right.

I do not revolve my life around a badly translated outdated text. And neither do you.


It is not badly translated.

[summer skin]

It is not badly translated.
haha.

[Brokenhill]

Neither are KKK members when they burn crosses.


But they're extremists who wanted them to die.

[Yes. And?]

It is not badly translated.
Yes, it is.

[Brokenhill]

So basically they are speaking out against disliking gays. This basically proves what I said earlier.


Not really.

[Yes. And?]

But they're extremists who wanted them to die.
No. They wanted to keep them in their place.

[Yes. And?]

Not really.
Then you're saying they want to harm "queers" and "coons" and jews, etc?

But I thought those lyrics didn't reflect the band, YOU SAID.

[Brokenhill]

Yes, it is.


There are only minute errors which don't affect what message is supposed to be understood.

Why would God only have the bible available to hebrews and greeks and have it to where everyone else has a "badly translated"? He wants everyone to read and understand and follow it, so he wouldn't do such a thing.

[Yes. And?]

How could I forget M Shepard? Well, to be honest, that song hasn't quite grown on me.

[Brokenhill]

M Shepard is about Matthew Shepard and Signals Over the Air is also about gay rights.

When MCR said that they didn't want homophobic fans I'm pretty sure that Thursday would agree seen as Geoff himself is quite possibly gay or bisexual.

Also good job Summer Skin.

Being gay is no more a sin than lying, working on sundays (which priests do every week) or any other crazy thing normal people do all the time.


Who said I wasn't against liars?

ANd btw it's not a sin to work on Sunday.

[Yes. And?]

There are only minute errors which don't affect what message is supposed to be understood.

Why would God only have the bible available to hebrews and greeks and have it to where everyone else has a "badly translated"? He wants everyone to read and understand and follow it, so he wouldn't do such a thing.
But I thought the word of God is without error?

:rolleyes: @ the second part.

[Brokenhill]

Then you're saying they want to harm "queers" and "coons" and jews, etc?

But I thought those lyrics didn't reflect the band, YOU SAID.


Actually it's more like when Roger was writing, he was just expressing some things that were going on at the time.

[Yes. And?]

Actually it's more like when Roger was writing, he was just expressing some things that were going on at the time.
Such as?

[Brokenhill]

But I thought the word of God is without error?

:rolleyes: @ the second part.

Yea...there aren't any contradictions...

But when that's the subject, it's not talking about grammatical errors.

Stop using things out of context.

[Brokenhill]

Such as?


Idk he could have just been referring to different things...like what his friends or family thought or thigns he read in the newspaper.

I'm not him, I don't know the particulars.

[Yes. And?]

Yea...there aren't any contradictions...

But when that's the subject, it's not talking about grammatical errors.

Stop using things out of context.
What grammatical errors? Do you believe the Bible is the literal Word of God? If mortal men were allowed to mess with it, it is not the literal Word of God.

lol @ the Bible not having any contradictions.

[Brokenhill]

Because God is A) Not real and B) Even if it/he/she was real, didn't write the Bible.

How could he? He wouldn't have hands, pens, could he even speak or understand human languages?

Ugh it's all so stupid.


That's because he told certain people to write the actuall scipts...but it was only his word that was written.

God is real, you're just ignoring the proof...and while he doesn't appear to people like he used to, we are better off not ever seeing him. ...for we walk by faith, not sight...

[Yes. And?]

Idk he could have just been referring to different things...like what his friends or family thought or thigns he read in the newspaper.

I'm not him, I don't know the particulars.
He was probably talking about feelings of oppression. Nobody rights lyrics like that just because "they feel like it".

[lovelyloveleigh]

aside from the pink floyd debate.... i've found that anyone at a reggae show is incredibly relaxed. probably because they're stoned, but it's still so much fun... no pushing, no bitchy barricade people, just like swaying back and forth.

those are always a welcome break. otherwise i agree with the first few posts - every band has its great fans and its assholes.

[Brokenhill]

I gotta go eat...

If you would just do some reading, as in the BIBLE, then you could easily understand. You could answer your own questions.

I however, have to go eat.

[Yes. And?]

A Fatal Goodbye is like hands down the worst poster on this site. Even worse than Die Hard.
And Genuma is nothing more than a pesky child.

[Brokenhill]

In terms of the PF lyric...

First and foremost, it must be remembered that THIS SONG IS NOT A REFLECTION OF THE BAND'S PERSONAL BELIEFS! I emphasize this due in large part to the number of e-mails I've received asking if Pink Floyd is a racist band. The answer is a resounding no. This song is supposed to be offensive. It is supposed to be fascist. http://www.thewallanalysis.com/Pictures/MovieShots/Flesh2-4.jpg (http://www.thewallanalysis.com/Pictures/MovieShots/FullSizeShots/Flesh2-4.JPG)More than anything else, this song is supposed to be satirical. That is the very point that the band is trying to make, though you'll completely miss this point if you don't listen to the song in the context in which it was written. I can easily see how one might assume that Pink Floyd is racist if one listens to "In the Flesh" by itself. But it must be remembered that the song is like a chapter in a book, expanding on what was said before and what will be said afterwards. I cannot stress this point enough. Waters did not write the song to express his personal beliefs about minorities but rather to show the state Pink has reached after becoming completely isolated behind his wall.

[Yes. And?]

I gotta go eat...

If you would just do some reading, as in the BIBLE, then you could easily understand. You could answer your own questions.

I however, have to go eat.
Yes, if we all just read the Bible, everything would be okay. Fail. Go ahead and run out like you always do.

[Brokenhill]

And the world is also flat and 6000 years old right? And a man in a pointy white hat knows more about the world than all the biologists, physicists and mathematicians in the world? But wait even the Pope who is a Bible thumper to end all Bible thumpers doesn't believe in Adam and Eve and all that junk does he.


The various scripts were written at different times...however today they have all been compiled into a handy book.

And why bring up the pope? Idk anything about the pope...the pope has no authority from the bible to hold his position. I don't follow him at all...

IDC what the pope says or thinks or beleives or does not beleive, he is not Jesus or God therfore should pretty much be ignored.

[HangsLikeHeaven]

:appl: @ this thread. John is cool, now. He's light years cooler than most 13 year olds.

[avengedtbs]

Out of my experiences, I'd say that Saves the Day has some of the best fans.

[Yes. And?]

In terms of the PF lyric...

First and foremost, it must be remembered that THIS SONG IS NOT A REFLECTION OF THE BAND'S PERSONAL BELIEFS! I emphasize this due in large part to the number of e-mails I've received asking if Pink Floyd is a racist band. The answer is a resounding no. This song is supposed to be offensive. It is supposed to be fascist. http://www.thewallanalysis.com/Pictures/MovieShots/Flesh2-4.jpg (http://www.thewallanalysis.com/Pictures/MovieShots/FullSizeShots/Flesh2-4.JPG)More than anything else, this song is supposed to be satirical. That is the very point that the band is trying to make, though you'll completely miss this point if you don't listen to the song in the context in which it was written. I can easily see how one might assume that Pink Floyd is racist if one listens to "In the Flesh" by itself. But it must be remembered that the song is like a chapter in a book, expanding on what was said before and what will be said afterwards. I cannot stress this point enough. Waters did not write the song to express his personal beliefs about minorities but rather to show the state Pink has reached after becoming completely isolated behind his wall.
Nobody's accusing Pink Floyd of being racist, dipshit. If the song is satire, then it pretty much shows that he's against those actions.
Genuma is cool now. Nowhere near as annoying as he was.
Eh, he's not as bad as he was before. I do not like him, though.
Die Hard just seriously needs to get out of music forum. And stop wearing a GJ avatar. Didn't he have a Chiodos avatar once? He should go back to that.

[Brokenhill]

Yes, if we all just read the Bible, everything would be okay. Fail. Go ahead and run out like you always do.


I'm not running out.

I'm hungry. And yes, if everyone did read the bible, and sincerely follow, everything would be ok.

Imagine it...no hate...no war...etc...But of course that'll never happen.

[avengedtbs]

Nobody's accusing Pink Floyd of being racist, dipshit. If the song is satire, then it pretty much shows that he's against those actions.

Eh, he's not as bad as he was before. I do not like him, though.
Die Hard just seriously needs to get out of music forum. And stop wearing a GJ avatar. Didn't he have a Chiodos avatar once? He should go back to that.
Hahahaha everyone hates Jeremy.

[Shiny_Boots]

fuck that shit man

oMgEE!1!11
g0d b3 gRaTe!
yo!

shut the fuck up

[Yes. And?]

The various scripts were written at different times...however today they have all been compiled into a handy book.

And why bring up the pope? Idk anything about the pope...the pope has no authority from the bible to hold his position. I don't follow him at all...

IDC what the pope says or thinks or beleives or does not beleive, he is not Jesus or God therfore should pretty much be ignored.
But I thought God wrote it all?:-|

Um, wow. Way to be anti-catholic. The catholic church was the only church at first, you know. Though, the Eastern Orthodox Church broke off over issues of praying to saints. Or something....

[Yes. And?]

lulz. Let's ignore the Pope, guys.

Everybody read the Bible in the Middle Ages and it was hell.

[HangsLikeHeaven]

Hahahaha everyone hates Jeremy.

I'd probably respect him a lot more if he didn't write that one thread where he's like "I'm sorry if you don't like me, I'll change and act differently from now on..." or something of those lines.

[avengedtbs]

I'd probably respect him a lot more if he didn't write that one thread where he's like "I'm sorry if you don't like me, I'll change and act differently from now on..." or something of those lines.
Well it's just like in the general when he posts or creates a thread and he's like "I know you guys hate me and are all gonna rip on me so whatever."

[Jason Tate]

I know this is hard for you to understand, but i'll try once again. Just for you...now read it nice and slow, and you might be able to get it.

Being against homosexuality doesn't mean i'm a homophobe. I am not scared of them or afraid to be around them, etc.

And it's "ok" to be against it, because God's against it, therefore I should be too.

1 Chorinthians 6:9.

You call yourself a Christian yet can't read and understand that verse, and then abide by it?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc1.htm

You should probably learn what God really wants before attaching his name in such a belief.

[Jason Tate]

I'm not running out.

I'm hungry. And yes, if everyone did read the bible, and sincerely follow, everything would be ok.

Imagine it...no hate...no war...etc...But of course that'll never happen.
There's plenty of hate and war in the Bible ... which book are you reading?

[Yes. And?]

:-0

First time I've seen you in music forum.

[Jason Tate]

:-0

First time I've seen you in music forum.
There's a bat-signal like flare that goes off when stupid people start posting. ;-)

[Yes. And?]

lol.

Ban, please?

[summer skin]

I'm not running out.

I'm hungry. And yes, if everyone did read the bible, and sincerely follow, everything would be ok.

Imagine it...no hate...no war...etc...But of course that'll never happen.
without the bible most wars wouldn't have even started.

[noselove]

the Johnny Kool Experience has some great fans. they're all totally down to earth.

when they dance its everytime

[HangsLikeHeaven]

Jason Tate sighting. Tate, what's your AOTY so far? And let's pretend Bemis hasn't put out an album.

[Yes. And?]

Haha, he's gone.

[HangsLikeHeaven]

i loseeee

[funkel]

Radiohead are my favourite band but their fans are either moronic mainstream noobs or total elitists who solely listen to Radiohead.
Where does that put you, Ben?
Sorry, I had to, ha.

[x togepi x]

I gotta go eat...

If you would just do some reading, as in the BIBLE, then you could easily understand. You could answer your own questions.

I however, have to go eat.

i've read the bible. it doesn't condemn homosexuality at all. you just took the verses out of historical context, and if we followed the bible, we'd be living in an anarchist, socialist utopia. too bad AFG's conservative and hates the words of jesus.

[HangsLikeHeaven]

Haha.

Just not answering is the best answer. Hahaha

[Dre Okorley]

Well, the Old Testament definitely condemns homosexuality as an abomination. The new one just shuns any sort of 'immoral sexual acts and thoughts' which I guess can linked to the previous testament, as most Bible thumpers do. This is just one of the many examples of its' inconsistent legacy as an authoritative book. Even though it does say homosexual behavior will not inherit the kingdom of God. But this is what gets me, that's GOD's decision to make- what she/he likes or dislikes, not fellow humans to obsess over and then "live through God" by hate crimes, slander, and distaste.

(PS. I'm not claiming to know the Bible because I'm not a follower, I'm just participating in discussion based on memory and intellectual talks among friends)..

[x togepi x]

Well, the Old Testament definitely condemns homosexuality as an abomination. The new one just shuns any sort of 'immoral sexual acts and thoughts' which I guess can linked to the previous testament, as most Bible thumpers do. This is just one of the many examples of its' inconsistent legacy as an authoritative book. Even though it does say homosexual behavior will not inherit the kingdom of God. But this is what gets me, that's GOD's decision to make- what she/he likes or dislikes, not fellow humans to obsess over and then "live through God" by hate crimes, slander, and distaste.

(PS. I'm not claiming to know the Bible because I'm not a follower, I'm just participating in discussion based on memory and intellectual talks among friends)..

In historical context, the old testament condemnation of homosexuality is really a condemnation of male prostitution as back in the day, people view male prostitutes as lowering themselves to the status of a woman, which was really bad because society was even more patriarchical than it is now.

it's just easy, outside of historical context, to condemn homosexuality because many people are ignorant as to the social conditions of the time period the bible was written in.
For example, the line that you shouldn't sleep with a man as though you would with a woman, is actually talking about the Greek practice of married men carrying on sexual acts with boys. In reality, it's not a condemnation of homosexuality, but really saying that you shouldn't cheat on your spouse.

[Dre Okorley]

In historical context, the old testament condemnation of homosexuality is really a condemnation of male prostitution as back in the day, people view male prostitutes as lowering themselves to the status of a woman, which was really bad because society was even more patriarchical than it is now.
Wow, never considered this perspective. Thanks.


it's just easy, outside of historical context, to condemn homosexuality because many people are ignorant as to the social conditions of the time period the bible was written in.
For example, the line that you shouldn't sleep with a man as though you would with a woman, is actually talking about the Greek practice of married men carrying on sexual acts with boys. In reality, it's not a condemnation of homosexuality, but really saying that you shouldn't cheat on your spouse.

I wonder if most organized religions didn't exist in such influential capacity if homosexuality would be as strongly despised.

[Brokenhill]

There's plenty of hate and war in the Bible ... which book are you reading?


Of course this, did I say there wasn't?

I said if everyone followed the new testament pattern, became a Christian and abided in his word, then there wouldn't be little to no murder, lying, fornication, adultery, etc.

[Brokenhill]

Well, the Old Testament definitely condemns homosexuality as an abomination. The new one just shuns any sort of 'immoral sexual acts and thoughts' which I guess can linked to the previous testament, as most Bible thumpers do. This is just one of the many examples of its' inconsistent legacy as an authoritative book. Even though it does say homosexual behavior will not inherit the kingdom of God. But this is what gets me, that's GOD's decision to make- what she/he likes or dislikes, not fellow humans to obsess over and then "live through God" by hate crimes, slander, and distaste.

(PS. I'm not claiming to know the Bible because I'm not a follower, I'm just participating in discussion based on memory and intellectual talks among friends)..

In historical context, the old testament condemnation of homosexuality is really a condemnation of male prostitution as back in the day, people view male prostitutes as lowering themselves to the status of a woman, which was really bad because society was even more patriarchical than it is now.

it's just easy, outside of historical context, to condemn homosexuality because many people are ignorant as to the social conditions of the time period the bible was written in.
For example, the line that you shouldn't sleep with a man as though you would with a woman, is actually talking about the Greek practice of married men carrying on sexual acts with boys. In reality, it's not a condemnation of homosexuality, but really saying that you shouldn't cheat on your spouse.


If you just pick up a regular 'ol King James Version which is pretty much the closest translation you'll get to the original...then you'll see in that Corinthian's verse that it says homosexuals (alone with a long list of other things like drunkards, coveters, etc.) will not receive the kingdom of heaven

[Brokenhill]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc1.htm

You should probably learn what God really wants before attaching his name in such a belief.


Giving my some random site isn't proving anything...if I don't see it in the bible text, then you got nothin'.

[SprungMonkey]

Can someone explain why this thread went from a discussion of music to a war over religion? That's pretty pathetic guys.

To bring this back to topic, a majority of local bands tend to have the best fans.

[Brokenhill]

BEST is a stupid word.

"Best" is usually an opinionated adjective...

No one knows who has the absolute "best" fans...so pointless thread.

[SprungMonkey]

Wow, well said.

[HangsLikeHeaven]

BEST is a stupid word.

"Best" is usually an opinionated adjective...

No one knows who has the absolute "best" fans...so pointless thread.

Yet you responded to it. Smooth.

[Brokenhill]

Yea, because I was being opinionated. To my FAVORITE band.

[Brokenhill]

Wow, well said.

Thank you.

[Jason Tate]

Of course this, did I say there wasn't?

I said if everyone followed the new testament pattern, became a Christian and abided in his word, then there wouldn't be little to no murder, lying, fornication, adultery, etc.

Wrong.

Giving my some random site isn't proving anything...if I don't see it in the bible text, then you got nothin'.

The problem is the text doesn't say what you think it says. Go read the website before quoting that passage again.

[Brokenhill]

Wrong.



The problem is the text. Go read the website - it proves everything.


But that's not the problem.

There's a coule other verses that are against it, in different ways.

[SprungMonkey]

Jason, maybe you should just start a new thread involving your religious argument instead of cluttering up threads that have nothing to do with it.

[Yes. And?]

If you just pick up a regular 'ol King James Version which is pretty much the closest translation you'll get to the original...then you'll see in that Corinthian's verse that it says homosexuals (alone with a long list of other things like drunkards, coveters, etc.) will not receive the kingdom of heaven
Regular 'ol? What makes you think The King James version, named in honor of someone who was very well gay or bisexual, btw, is better than any other?

[Yes. And?]

Giving my some random site isn't proving anything...if I don't see it in the bible text, then you got nothin'.
:shake:

[Jason Tate]

But that's not the problem.

There's a coule other verses that are against it, in different ways.
Yes, that is the problem.

Also not particularly true. See .. your ignorance is where I take issue. You need to stop putting words in God's mouth. These "verses" are manipulated by prejudiced people to attempt and justify their views of others -- much like the Bible was once used to try and validate slavery.

[Jason Tate]

Jason, maybe you should just start a new thread involving your religious argument instead of cluttering up threads that have nothing to do with it.
Obviously this thread has something to do with it - I didn't start the religious conversation in here.

[x togepi x]

If you just pick up a regular 'ol King James Version which is pretty much the closest translation you'll get to the original...then you'll see in that Corinthian's verse that it says homosexuals (alone with a long list of other things like drunkards, coveters, etc.) will not receive the kingdom of heaven

A few things about your ignorant interpretation:

First off, the king's james version of the bible is merely a translation and not the language that it was written in. At the time the translation was being made, there were not many words for the concept of homosexuality, as all sexualities and the various roles within them, were not as clearly defined as they are now. Being this way, when those who translated the bible to english did so, they used one of the few words for homosexuality there were at the time. It's important to note that in the Bible, never once is a loving, homosexual relationship ever condemned. You just don't see it. You just see this concept, homosexuality, condemned, which as I pointed out early, in historical context, the kind of homosexuality they were condemning was men cheating on their wives with boys.

Secondly, if we're going to talk about things condemned as sins in the bible, it's important to note that there are tons of things condemned in other verses that you're not harping on. Do you hate women who don't sacrifice bulls for, and men who touch women on, their periods? Has your mom ever talked in Church, and if so, do you hate her too? Do you stick to the strict dietary restrictions that Jewish people do?

Of course not. You're picking and choosing out of hatred. Of course, the entire point of your religion, if you didn't already know, was that Jesus died. Homosexuals are sinners, just like you are for judging them. If they're going to hell, you are. If you can get salvation without changing ways, (which I don't see you doing, since you are the most homophobic person on this site), why can't they? If christianity is correct, then Jesus died for everyone regardless of sexual orientation, which means everyone gets to go to heaven. In this interpretation, Corinthians is merely stating that homosexuals, who don't fit the Male-Female mold of relations that the bible already spent pages upon pages defining, wouldn't get to go to heaven unless they too pick Christ as their savior. It has nothing to do with their life style at all.

Third, things like homosexuality, being condemned in the Bible were not the words of God. Do you see Christ saying them? No. You see people like Paul writing these words down. They are there for political reasons. As the Greek and Roman states worshipped many deities and promoted a worldview that is completely in contradiction with Christianity, the Christian power structure realized, that to convert people to Christianity, they would have to find a way for them to abandon their Grecco-Roman worldview. The grecco-roman homosexuality is completely different than modern homosexuality, and is based upon the culture of the people that the Christians would be turning their backs on. That is why it's condemned. Not because it's bad, but because it needed to be condemned so that people would turn to the religion.

Finally, as I pointed out, you are a conservative. The conservative ideology is all about worshipping power. You worship the power of the State as it provides "order" to society. You worship the power of the free market as it it provides us with an economy. These would all be false idols. maybe before you start jumping on the case of homosexuals, you should re-examine your personal beliefs to see how YOU don't fit your religion's standards.

You're supposed to take Christ as an example of how to act. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be throwing around slurs against gay people and justifying it by his religion.

[Yes. And?]

Jason, maybe you should just start a new thread involving your religious argument instead of cluttering up threads that have nothing to do with it.
Nah, this thread idea wasn't going to go far anyways. Besides, threads get off topic all the time.
:wave:

[Brokenhill]

Regular 'ol? What makes you think The King James version, named in honor of someone who was very well gay or bisexual, btw, is better than any other?

It's the most simple translation there is from the original text...i'm pretty sure it was the first translation. Many types of bibles even have in the preference saying that the text has been edited in some way not intended by God, usually by some person who thought it was necesary for that to be done...

:shake:

Yes, that is the problem.

Also not particularly true. See .. your ignorance is where I take issue. You need to stop putting words in God's mouth. These "verses" are manipulated by prejudiced people to attempt and justify their views of others -- much like the Bible was once used to try and validate slavery.

How am I putting words in God's mouth?

God's word is the bible, and in the bible it tells me homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God.

And it also tells me that a man and a woman were created, and for only 1 man and 1 women should be together.

[x togepi x]

It's the most simple translation there is from the original text...i'm pretty sure it was the first translation. Many types of bibles even have in the preference saying that the text has been edited in some way not intended by God, usually by some person who thought it was necesary for that to be done...

So, in deciding your religious beliefs, something that should be very well thought out and complex, you decide to go with the most simple interpretation? Wow. Rethink this dude. There are infinite interpretations of Christianity.

And it also tells me that a man and a woman were created, and for only 1 man and 1 women should be together.

if this is true, why did god make homosexuals?

[Brokenhill]

A few things about your ignorant interpretation:

First off, the king's james version of the bible is merely a translation and not the language that it was written in. At the time the translation was being made, there were not many words for the concept of homosexuality, as all sexualities and the various roles within them, were not as clearly defined as they are now. Being this way, when those who translated the bible to english did so, they used one of the few words for homosexuality there were at the time. It's important to note that in the Bible, never once is a loving, homosexual relationship ever condemned. You just don't see it. You just see this concept, homosexuality, condemned, which as I pointed out early, in historical context, the kind of homosexuality they were condemning was men cheating on their wives with boys.

Secondly, if we're going to talk about things condemned as sins in the bible, it's important to note that there are tons of things condemned in other verses that you're not harping on. Do you hate women who don't sacrifice bulls for, and men who touch women on, their periods? Has your mom ever talked in Church, and if so, do you hate her too? Do you stick to the strict dietary restrictions that Jewish people do?

Of course not. You're picking and choosing out of hatred. Of course, the entire point of your religion, if you didn't already know, was that Jesus died. Homosexuals are sinners, just like you are for judging them. If they're going to hell, you are. If you can get salvation without changing ways, (which I don't see you doing, since you are the most homophobic person on this site), why can't they? If christianity is correct, then Jesus died for everyone regardless of sexual orientation, which means everyone gets to go to heaven. In this interpretation, Corinthians is merely stating that homosexuals, who don't fit the Male-Female mold of relations that the bible already spent pages upon pages defining, wouldn't get to go to heaven unless they too pick Christ as their savior. It has nothing to do with their life style at all.

Third, things like homosexuality, being condemned in the Bible were not the words of God. Do you see Christ saying them? No. You see people like Paul writing these words down. They are there for political reasons. As the Greek and Roman states worshipped many deities and promoted a worldview that is completely in contradiction with Christianity, the Christian power structure realized, that to convert people to Christianity, they would have to find a way for them to abandon their Grecco-Roman worldview. The grecco-roman homosexuality is completely different than modern homosexuality, and is based upon the culture of the people that the Christians would be turning their backs on. That is why it's condemned. Not because it's bad, but because it needed to be condemned so that people would turn to the religion.

Finally, as I pointed out, you are a conservative. The conservative ideology is all about worshipping power. You worship the power of the State as it provides "order" to society. You worship the power of the free market as it it provides us with an economy. These would all be false idols. maybe before you start jumping on the case of homosexuals, you should re-examine your personal beliefs to see how YOU don't fit your religion's standards.

You're supposed to take Christ as an example of how to act. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be throwing around slurs against gay people and justifying it by his religion.


Those specifics aren't mentioned.

God in Genesis gives authority for 1 man and 1 woman to be together, therefore ruling out all other possibilites.

[summer skin]

So, in deciding your religious beliefs, something that should be very well thought out and complex, you decide to go with the most simple interpretation? Wow. Rethink this dude. There are infinite interpretations of Christianity.



if this is true, why did god make homosexuals?
So there'd be kindling for the fires of hell obviously.

[Brokenhill]

So, in deciding your religious beliefs, something that should be very well thought out and complex, you decide to go with the most simple interpretation? Wow. Rethink this dude. There are infinite interpretations of Christianity.



if this is true, why did god make homosexuals?

He didn't create homosexuals...

All humans have free will, as given by God.

Peopel choose to be gay.

And don't give me that genetics crap...it hasn't been proved.

[x togepi x]

Those specifics aren't mentioned.

God in Genesis gives authority for 1 man and 1 woman to be together, therefore ruling out all other possibilites.

You didn't at all touch my arguments there. That is pathetic. You'll hate entire groups of people but won't even attempt to answer a pretty logical explanation on why this belief is wrong.

I seriously want you to tell me why God made homosexuals, if they're supposedly evil.

[x togepi x]

He didn't create homosexuals...

All humans have free will, as given by God.

Peopel choose to be gay.

And don't give me that genetics crap...it hasn't been proved.

When did you choose to be straight?

[Yes. And?]

It's the most simple translation there is from the original text...i'm pretty sure it was the first translation.
What?
He didn't create homosexuals...

All humans have free will, as given by God.

Peopel choose to be gay.

And don't give me that genetics crap...it hasn't been proved.
Yeah, fuck science!

[summer skin]

He didn't create homosexuals...

All humans have free will, as given by God.

Peopel choose to be gay.

And don't give me that genetics crap...it hasn't been proved.
So you can choose what gives you a boner? You should get in the porn business.

[Brokenhill]

And i'm not picking and choosing on hatred...

Women in my church, don't take roles in worship service, such as singing or prayers or serving the LS.

However they are permitted to speak, that verse in the bible isn't 100% literal. The Bible isn't always literal, but mostly it is...

[Brokenhill]

You didn't at all touch my arguments there. That is pathetic. You'll hate entire groups of people but won't even attempt to answer a pretty logical explanation on why this belief is wrong.

I seriously want you to tell me why God made homosexuals, if they're supposedly evil.


I only read the first paragraph then replied to that one. You need to seperate your points so I can reply faster...

Instead of me sitting here for an hour replying to all of it in 1 post.

[x togepi x]

And i'm not picking and choosing on hatred...

Women in my church, don't take roles in worship service, such as singing or prayers or serving the LS.

However they are permitted to speak, that verse in the bible isn't 100% literal. The Bible isn't always literal, but mostly it is...

WAIT, so...the bible sometimes isn't literal?

how do you decide which parts are literal and which parts aren't?

and, are you going to respond at all to what i posted, the long thing?

[Yes. And?]

lol. AFG thinks the very first translation of the Bible EVAR was published in 1611.
:lol:

[x togepi x]

I only read the first paragraph then replied to that one. You need to seperate your points so I can reply faster...

Instead of me sitting here for an hour replying to all of it in 1 post.

each paragraph has a point.

[Brokenhill]

WAIT, so...the bible sometimes isn't literal?

how do you decide which parts are literal and which parts aren't?

and, are you going to respond at all to what i posted, the long thing?


Context...who's talking...who's being talked to...

And referring to other scriptures that have same dealings. Just depends.

[Yes. And?]

And i'm not picking and choosing on hatred...

Women in my church, don't take roles in worship service, such as singing or prayers or serving the LS.

However they are permitted to speak, that verse in the bible isn't 100% literal. The Bible isn't always literal, but mostly it is...
Homophobia and sexism do go hand in hand.

[Brokenhill]

each paragraph has a point.


I know that. Which is why you should just post 1 paragraph at a time.

[summer skin]

And i'm not picking and choosing on hatred...

Women in my church, don't take roles in worship service, such as singing or prayers or serving the LS.

However they are permitted to speak, that verse in the bible isn't 100% literal. The Bible isn't always literal, but mostly it is...
Do they have shock collars that the pope can zap them with if they decide to do anything other than bear children?

[Yes. And?]

Context...who's talking...who's being talked to...

And referring to other scriptures that have same dealings. Just depends.
Elaborate.

[x togepi x]

Context...who's talking...who's being talked to...

And referring to other scriptures that have same dealings. Just depends.

and if you read my post, that you won't because it proves you wrong, it explicitly states that the context around the scripture about homosexuals means something different than what you think it does.

[SprungMonkey]

I don't think people choose to be gay. Look at today's society. There's plenty of people that hate gays and find them inferior. What person in their right mind would choose to live life at risk of being ridiculed and hated by a decent percentage of people.

[Brokenhill]

Homophobia and sexism do go hand in hand.


Sexism to everyoen now...because the world has gotten away from scripture so much.

God created men and women, with men having the upper hand. That's just how it is...

The women in my church realize that, and don't have any problem with that.

[x togepi x]

Sexism to everyoen now...because the world has gotten away from scripture so much.

God created men and women, with men having the upper hand. That's just how it is...

The women in my church realize that, and don't have any problem with that.

you really do worship power.

[Yes. And?]

Sexism to everyoen now...because the world has gotten away from scripture so much.

God created men and women, with men having the upper hand. That's just how it is...

The women in my church realize that, and don't have any problem with that.
When was the whole world ever under the influence of scripture?
I'm really sorry for them. Maybe they'll wake up one day.

[Brokenhill]

I don't think people choose to be gay. Look at today's society. There's plenty of people that hate gays and find them inferior. What person in their right mind would choose to live life at risk of being ridiculed and hated by a decent percentage of people.


I think they do...and it's beyond me why they would.

As you see more and more as we go along it is more accepted, so people are "coming out of the closet" left and right, this may sound ridiculous but it's almost like a trend. People are "trying it out" sorta speak because they can in today's society.

[x togepi x]

I'm pretty sure Thursday would be really sad to hear how AFG talks about women and homosexuals. the whole idea of human rights is based upon the idea that everyone is equal, all having no power above the other.

[Brokenhill]

Do they have shock collars that the pope can zap them with if they decide to do anything other than bear children?

Why does the pope keep being brought up?

He's just a regular person. A person you shouldn't be viewed as some sort of symbol or channel of God.

[x togepi x]

I think they do...and it's beyond me why they would.

As you see more and more as we go along it is more accepted, so people are "coming out of the closet" left and right, this may sound ridiculous but it's almost like a trend. People are "trying it out" sorta speak because they can in today's society.

WHEN DID YOU DECIDE TO BE STRAIGHT?

I want some sort of proof that homosexuals choose to be homosexual. All i see is some heterosexual telling me how the world is about people he has no clue about.

[Brokenhill]

When was the whole world ever under the influence of scripture?
I'm really sorry for them. Maybe they'll wake up one day.

There never was really a time obviously but even just a few hundred years ago people were a lot more about religion...

[x togepi x]

Why does the pope keep being brought up?

He's just a regular person. A person you shouldn't be viewed as some sort of symbol or channel of God.

what's the different between the Pope and the Paul, who wrote all the verses you're citing that condemn homosexuality?

[SprungMonkey]

The whole idea of human rights isn't based on everyone being equal. Human rights are decided by each country's government. I'm sure African Americans felt equal working in the fields, and I'm sure Native Americans felt equal when they were forced off their land.

[Yes. And?]

I think they do...and it's beyond me why they would.

As you see more and more as we go along it is more accepted, so people are "coming out of the closet" left and right, this may sound ridiculous but it's almost like a trend. People are "trying it out" sorta speak because they can in today's society.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. And really offensive to me because I have gay friends who can't tell parents or grandparents, have been punished or beaten, are being brainwashed by their churches. There are a ton of countries where you get jail time or even DEATH for being homosexual.

You think this is a fucking joke? You are a complete waste of life.

[Brokenhill]

WHEN DID YOU DECIDE TO BE STRAIGHT?

I want some sort of proof that homosexuals choose to be homosexual. All i see is some heterosexual telling me how the world is about people he has no clue about.


Everybody is straight to start out with...

Just looking at the human anatomy, and the cycle of life...men were meant to be with woman. Not 2 of each...it just doesn't work that way.

[x togepi x]

There never was really a time obviously but even just a few hundred years ago people were a lot more about religion...

oh, you mean during the native american genocides?

or was it when homosexuals were burned, to help light the stakes to burn witches and heretics?

was this also when racism was more rampant?

yeah, the world was a lot better back then.


stop posting. go read my long post. try and come up with answer to it. i don't think you can.

[Yes. And?]

There never was really a time obviously but even just a few hundred years ago people were a lot more about religion...
Everyone in the whole wide world followed scripture?

[x togepi x]

Everybody is straight to start out with...

Just looking at the human anatomy, and the cycle of life...men were meant to be with woman. Not 2 of each...it just doesn't work that way.

i don't remember deciding to be bi.

Let's talk about the cycle of life. Did you know there are homosexual animals? Explain that one. Not all sex is meant for reproduction. following your logic, women shouldn't use birth control. because i mean, god meant for sex to be productive.

[Brokenhill]

what's the different between the Pope and the Paul, who wrote all the verses you're citing that condemn homosexuality?


Because the pope is taking on a position that God never authoritized.

People pray to him and praise him...

You know what that is? Idolatry.

[Yes. And?]

I'm pretty sure Thursday would be really sad to hear how AFG talks about women and homosexuals. the whole idea of human rights is based upon the idea that everyone is equal, all having no power above the other.
I :puke: at the thought of him listening to M. Shepard.

[SprungMonkey]

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. And really offensive to me because I have gay friends who can't tell parents or grandparents, have been punished or beaten, are being brainwashed by their churches. There are a ton of countries where you get jail time or even DEATH for being homosexual.

You think this is a fucking joke? You are a complete waste of life.

I agree with this. Nobody in the fucking world would choose for themselves to put up with this treatment.

[x togepi x]

Because the pope is taking on a position that God never authoritized.

People pray to him and praise him...

You know what that is? Idolatry.

You salute the flag and praise America.

You know what that is? Idolatry.

[Yes. And?]

Because the pope is taking on a position that God never authoritized.

People pray to him and praise him...

You know what that is? Idolatry.
People do not pray to the Pope. Shut up.

[Brokenhill]

Everyone in the whole wide world followed scripture?

No...

[SprungMonkey]

You salute the flag and praise America.

You know what that is? Idolatry.

Are you serious? The last time I praised America I thought it was called patriotism.

[Brokenhill]

i don't remember deciding to be bi.

Let's talk about the cycle of life. Did you know there are homosexual animals? Explain that one. Not all sex is meant for reproduction. following your logic, women shouldn't use birth control. because i mean, god meant for sex to be productive.


Sex is meant to reproduce...birth control is unnecessary techinacally.

[Yes. And?]

No...
That's what you just said.

[Jason Tate]

Everybody is straight to start out with...

Just looking at the human anatomy, and the cycle of life...men were meant to be with woman. Not 2 of each...it just doesn't work that way.
Hahahahaa.... dude, you really need to go back to school. I understand you're only 16 so the classes you've taken are basic at best -- but someday you're going to really regret saying these things.

[Brokenhill]

People do not pray to the Pope. Shut up.

I've seen it.

[Brokenhill]

You salute the flag and praise America.

You know what that is? Idolatry.


That's called respecting your nation.

[Yes. And?]

Sex is meant to reproduce...birth control is unnecessary techinacally.
Most things we use are unecessary technically.

[x togepi x]

Are you serious? The last time I praised America I thought it was called patriotism.

The way that you praise America is much like the way a Catholic would praise the Pope. I don't think either is really idolatry depending on how you view patriotism.

[Brokenhill]

Most things we use are unecessary technically.


Pretty much...

[Yes. And?]

I've seen it.
Whoever's praying to the Pope has got it wrong.

[x togepi x]

Sex is meant to reproduce...birth control is unnecessary techinacally.

tell me how i decided to be bi, dumbass. it's funny that, i'm challenging you on this, and you're just ignoring it.

[Jason Tate]

A Fatal Goodbye is a classic example of someone who simply does not have the education required to speak on these topics. I'm sorry but his lack of knowledge on his own religion is astounding - and that's without even getting into the biological world.

[Yes. And?]

Pretty much...
But they're convenient for you, so you don't raise a fuss.

[SprungMonkey]

The way that you praise America is much like the way a Catholic would praise the Pope. I don't think either is really idolatry depending on how you view patriotism.

No, the way I praise America is nothing like a Catholic praising the Pope. I praise America because it is my home, and I'm kept safe and in good conditions.

[Yes. And?]

And I like his blatant anti-catholic bigotry. Kid, what the hell is wrong with you?

[x togepi x]

No, the way I praise America is nothing like a Catholic praising the Pope. I praise America because it is my home, and I'm kept safe and in good conditions.

The Catholic Church is the spiritual home of Catholics.

[Brokenhill]

Whoever's praying to the Pope has got it wrong.


I know, but they were either praying to him or through him. Either would be wrong.

[Yes. And?]

I know, but they were either praying to him or through him. Either would be wrong.
No..they're not.

[Brokenhill]

A Fatal Goodbye is a classic example of someone who simply does not have the education required to speak on these topics. I'm sorry but his lack of knowledge on his own religion is astounding - and that's without even getting into the biological world.


I see you as the one lacking knoweldge...i've been studying the bible for years...led by my dad and other people...

[x togepi x]

how can you tell me I decided my sexuality when you don't know anything about it?

seriously, read this post again: http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=8197850#post819785 0, reflect on it. and if you can respond to it, we can talk.

[Brokenhill]

No..they're not.


We're supposed to pray to God, through Jesus.

Is the pop God or Jesus? I don't think so...therefore wrong.

[SprungMonkey]

x togepi x, the church is where you pray for health and happiness. Patriotism is wanting your troops to return safely and having respect for your country. People don't view the President in the same way as the Pope, so your physical home and spiritual home are drastically unrelated.

[Yes. And?]

I see you as the one lacking knoweldge...i've been studying the bible for years...led by my dad and other people...
And yet say the King James version was he first translation ever.

What an expert you are.

[Jason Tate]

I see you as the one lacking knoweldge...i've been studying the bible for years...led by my dad and other people...
And yet you continue to propagate a variety of beliefs that the Bible does not expose. So if you have been studying the Bible for years -- why is it that you know so little about what it is and what it contains?

[x togepi x]

x togepi x, the church is where you pray for health and happiness. Patriotism is wanting your troops to return safely and having respect for your country. People don't view the President in the same way as the Pope, so your physical home and spiritual home are drastically unrelated.

you obviously cannot understand a simple analogy.

[Yes. And?]

We're supposed to pray to God, through Jesus.

Is the pop God or Jesus? I don't think so...therefore wrong.
But they are not praying to the Pope or through the Pope.

[x togepi x]

exactly, the pope is one big spiritual adviser...who tells what the scripture means...kinda like your dad did. i guess you're doing it wrong too. it's funny because there are groups of catholics who...wait for it...disagree with the pope!

[Yes. And?]

AFG, stop being a coward. You shot off your mouth about how homosexuals and bisexuals must choose to be this way, because it's now "safe". I refuted that.

Address my post.

[Brokenhill]

A few things about your ignorant interpretation:
Of course not. You're picking and choosing out of hatred. Of course, the entire point of your religion, if you didn't already know, was that Jesus died. Homosexuals are sinners, just like you are for judging them. If they're going to hell, you are. If you can get salvation without changing ways, (which I don't see you doing, since you are the most homophobic person on this site), why can't they? If christianity is correct, then Jesus died for everyone regardless of sexual orientation, which means everyone gets to go to heaven. In this interpretation, Corinthians is merely stating that homosexuals, who don't fit the Male-Female mold of relations that the bible already spent pages upon pages defining, wouldn't get to go to heaven unless they too pick Christ as their savior. It has nothing to do with their life style at all.

Third, things like homosexuality, being condemned in the Bible were not the words of God. Do you see Christ saying them? No. You see people like Paul writing these words down. They are there for political reasons. As the Greek and Roman states worshipped many deities and promoted a worldview that is completely in contradiction with Christianity, the Christian power structure realized, that to convert people to Christianity, they would have to find a way for them to abandon their Grecco-Roman worldview. The grecco-roman homosexuality is completely different than modern homosexuality, and is based upon the culture of the people that the Christians would be turning their backs on. That is why it's condemned. Not because it's bad, but because it needed to be condemned so that people would turn to the religion.

Finally, as I pointed out, you are a conservative. The conservative ideology is all about worshipping power. You worship the power of the State as it provides "order" to society. You worship the power of the free market as it it provides us with an economy. These would all be false idols. maybe before you start jumping on the case of homosexuals, you should re-examine your personal beliefs to see how YOU don't fit your religion's standards.

You're supposed to take Christ as an example of how to act. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be throwing around slurs against gay people and justifying it by his religion.

If I am sinning then of course I can't reach salvation without changing my ways...neither can a homosexual.

1 Jesus died so that our sins might be forgotten, but the homosexual would have to repent and confess then be baptized and change his ways to become right with God.

-I'm not perfect...I have sinned, and I do sin occasionally, I don't try to, but sometimes I mess up. That's why there's always repentance and prayer to get myself right with God.

2. Not everyone is going to Heaven, the bible says that the majority of the world will not go to heaven.

3. Paul wrote them down because he was supposed to, as commanded by God.

[SprungMonkey]

He obviously has nothing to support his thoughts.

[Yes. And?]

You didn't address his post at all.

[SprungMonkey]

If I am sinning then of course I can't reach salvation without changing my ways...neither can a homosexual.

1 Jesus died so that our sins might be forgotten, but the homosexual would have to repent and confess then be baptized and change his ways to become right with God.

-I'm not perfect...I have sinned, and I do sin occasionally, I don't try to, but sometimes I mess up. That's why there's always repentance and prayer to get myself right with God.

2. Not everyone is going to Heaven, the bible says that the majority of the world will not go to heaven.

3. Paul wrote them down because he was supposed to, as commanded by God.

So based on #1, you think homosexuals have to change their homosexual ways to go to heaven?

[Brokenhill]

But they are not praying to the Pope or through the Pope.



I didn't say all Catholics were...I just said some do.

Still his position is not authoritized by God.

The Church is 1 thing...1 body, the head being Jesus, and the body being the people. The hurch is not the building, the curch is the people.

There isn't supposed to be "Catholic" and "Protestant" and "Baptist" and whatever 100 types of denominations there are.

That's not unity which is what God wants...

[SprungMonkey]

A Fatal Goodbye, you're fantastic at dodging everyone's questions.

[Jason Tate]

If I am sinning then of course I can't reach salvation without changing my ways...neither can a homosexual.

1 Jesus died so that our sins might be forgotten, but the homosexual would have to repent and confess then be baptized and change his ways to become right with God.

-I'm not perfect...I have sinned, and I do sin occasionally, I don't try to, but sometimes I mess up. That's why there's always repentance and prayer to get myself right with God.

2. Not everyone is going to Heaven, the bible says that the majority of the world will not go to heaven.

3. Paul wrote them down because he was supposed to, as commanded by God.
Do you don't eat shell fish right? And you've never touched a pig ... right? If we're going to be discussing the outrageous "sins" we might as well include them all.

[x togepi x]

If I am sinning then of course I can't reach salvation without changing my ways...neither can a homosexual.

First off, I also said that you need to stop judging homosexuals. You still haven't. Homophobia is judging homosexuals to be inferior to you. If they're going to hell, you'll be down there with them.

1 Jesus died so that our sins might be forgotten, but the homosexual would have to repent and confess then be baptized and change his ways to become right with God.

there are homosexual christians who apologize for being sinners in general. you're not catholic, so you don't believe we have to go down the list of all our sins. this means homosexuals still go to heaven.

2. Not everyone is going to Heaven, the bible says that the majority of the world will not go to heaven.

because the majority of the world isn't christian. that has nothing to do with homosexuals.

3. Paul wrote them down because he was supposed to, as commanded by God.

You have no way to prove this. You're just saying he was. I explained why your view is wrong, but you ignored it. If Paul was supposed to write that all homosexuality was wrong, why didn't he talk about monogamous, loving homosexual relationships? Surely, God wouldn't have let him mess up like that.

you also ignored my part about conservativism and never touched the ambiguity of language, nevermind the fact that you also pick and choose bible verses to harp on.

I still want you to tell me how I decided to be bi.

[Brokenhill]

So based on #1, you think homosexuals have to change their homosexual ways to go to heaven?

According to the Bible, i'd say yes.

You're making it seem like i'm judging people and types of people...all i'm doing is restating what God said.

God says that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of god, and that 1 woman and 1 man are only supposed to be together...so if there is a situation in which it is differnet than 1 man and 1 woman, then I would assume form scripture that they wouldn't be going to heaven.

[Jason Tate]

I'm re-printing this here so that hopefully the others reading this thread can garner some enlightenment on the topic. Don't let other's hate change the actual message.

What does Romans 1 and I Cor 6:9 condemn? In the former case, idolatry. One of the behavioral consequences of idolatry is people who engage in same-sex relations by substituting the truth of God for a lie and who do things that are para physin (beyond nature). Romans 8 makes it clear that even while the pagan world of Romans 1-2 and the Jewish world of 3 falls under the judgment of God, nothing separates either from the love of God. I Cor 6:9 lists behaviors that will not enter the kingdom, including the Greek terms malakos and arsenokoites. When the term homosexuality was invented in the 19th Century, it appeared in some modern translations and replaced earlier translations relating the terms correctly to men e.g. tyndale for arsenokoites "abusers of themselyves with the mankynde." Sometimes an attempt was made in modern translations to separate the act from the person, so for arsenokoites read "practicing homosexuals." (This was at one time proposed for the NRSV).

A way to get at the meaning of arsenokoites is to look at other contexts in which the Greek word appeared independently of Paul. These other occurrences (Sibylline Oracles 2.70-77, Acts of John; Theophilus of Antioch Ad Autolycum) suggest that the word refers to some kind of economic exploitation by means of sex (but not necessarily homosexual sex). Perhaps the more important question is why some scholars are certain the word refers to male-male sex in the face of evidence to the contrary. Perhaps ideology has been more important than philology!

Malakos occurs widely in ancient sources and refers to the softness of expensive clothes, the richness of food, the gentleness of winds and breezes. The term refers to the effeminacy or softness of which penetration by another man is a sign or proof; it does not refer to the sexual act itself. In philosophical texts, the plural term malakoi are those who cannot put up with hard work. Xenophon uses the term for lazy men. In Josephus and Plutarch (both first century writers from different cultural backgrounds), cowards are malakoi.

In the ancient world effeminacy was implicated in heterosexual acts just as much as homosexual. Chariton in his novel Chaeras and Callirhoe provides a typical portrait of an effeminate man: he has a fresh hairdo, is scented with perfume, he wears eye makeup, a soft (malakos) mantle, and light swishy slippers; his fingers glisten with rings. He is off to seduce a woman! Why, given all the ancient evidence, some of which I have mentioned here, was the translation "effeminate" for I Cor 6:9 rejected by Bible translations? Because it reinscribes the misogyny of the term? Because condemnation of something socially embarrassing could hardly be called the word of God?

In short: the allegation that the New Testament condemns homosexuality is not just poor but lazy and inexcusable scholarship. An attempt by some scholars to interpret I Cor 6:9 by taking malakos to mean the passive partner and arsenokoites the active partner is based on circular reasoning. The meaning of arsenokoites is problematic.

There is no evidence that malakos was ever considered as a technical term for a passive partner. (There are other terms for passive and active partner in Greek. They never appear in the NT) Malakos' general meaning of effeminate is independent of sexual position or object. To define malakos arsenokoites is to define something already clear by something that is obscure.

[x togepi x]

According to the Bible, i'd say yes.

You're making it seem like i'm judging people and types of people...all i'm doing is restating what God said.

God says that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of god, and that 1 woman and 1 man are only supposed to be together...so if there is a situation in which it is differnet than 1 man and 1 woman, then I would assume form scripture that they wouldn't be going to heaven.

You call things gay and use the word ******. By doing so, you judge homosexuals.

[Brokenhill]

First off, I also said that you need to stop judging homosexuals. You still haven't. Homophobia is judging homosexuals to be inferior to you. If they're going to hell, you'll be down there with them.



there are homosexual christians who apologize for being sinners in general. you're not catholic, so you don't believe we have to go down the list of all our sins. this means homosexuals still go to heaven.



because the majority of the world isn't christian. that has nothing to do with homosexuals.



You have no way to prove this. You're just saying he was. I explained why your view is wrong, but you ignored it. If Paul was supposed to write that all homosexuality was wrong, why didn't he talk about monogamous, loving homosexual relationships? Surely, God wouldn't have let him mess up like that.

you also ignored my part about conservativism and never touched the ambiguity of language, nevermind the fact that you also pick and choose bible verses to harp on.

I still want you to tell me how I decided to be bi.

First you need to study what it means to be a christian.

Simply going to a "Christian" church does not make you a christian.

[x togepi x]

I'm re-printing this here so that hopefully the others reading this thread can garner some enlightenment on the topic. Don't let other's hate change the actual message.

that's really the only reason i'm arguing with him. so other people who believe like him, but are more open minded, might see the error of their ways.

[SprungMonkey]

According to the Bible, i'd say yes.

You're making it seem like i'm judging people and types of people...all i'm doing is restating what God said.


You are judging people. You're saying that being a homosexual is wrong and that they won't go to heaven. You keep running your mouth about how sinful it is to be a homosexual and dodge-balling everyone's questions about your judgments.

[x togepi x]

First you need to study what it means to be a christian.

Simply going to a "Christian" church does not make you a christian.

I'm schooling you on your religious beliefs. I've explained the history behind your church way better than you have. I come from a Judeo-Christian background. I know what i'm talking about.

if you're so right, how come you can't explain to me when I decided to be bi? Time and time again, you ignore my question because you can't answer it.

[Yes. And?]

I didn't say all Catholics were...I just said some do.

Still his position is not authoritized by God.

The Church is 1 thing...1 body, the head being Jesus, and the body being the people. The hurch is not the building, the curch is the people.

There isn't supposed to be "Catholic" and "Protestant" and "Baptist" and whatever 100 types of denominations there are.

That's not unity which is what God wants...
Well, if some do they aren't following doctrine. How you would even know that is beyond me.

In the beginning, all there was was the Catholic Church. Catholic means"universal". The first pope was Apostle Peter, one of Jesus' twelve disciples. How's that for not being authorized by God?
The Easter Orthodox Church split over issues of praying to saints and images.

The Protestant Reformation way later. 16th Century.

[Brokenhill]

You call things gay and use the word ******. By doing so, you judge homosexuals.


I use those as slang terms not referring to actual hoosexuality.

It wouldn't be judging them anyway...but only a title sort of thing.

If I tel you i'm a german, and you call me a german, i'm not going to feel judged or offended.

[Brokenhill]

Do you don't eat shell fish right? And you've never touched a pig ... right? If we're going to be discussing the outrageous "sins" we might as well include them all.


Those were things commanded to those in the OT, when we are told that the OT is done away with..and that we should be following the New Testmant.

Therfore things commanded in the OT do not apply to us today.

[x togepi x]

I use those as slang terms not referring to actual hoosexuality.

It wouldn't be judging them anyway...but only a title sort of thing.

If I tel you i'm a german, and you call me a german, i'm not going to feel judged or offended.

you use that slang term to mean bad, because you think homosexuality is bad. if you were (more) racist, you'd use the n-word.

are you going to keep sitting here and tell me i chose being bi?

[Jason Tate]

Those were things commanded to those in the OT, when we are told that the OT is done away with..and that we should be following the New Testmant.

Therfore things commanded in the OT do not apply to us today.
So therefore you have absolutely ZERO Biblical evidence to condemn homosexuality. ZERO.

[SprungMonkey]

I use those as slang terms not referring to actual hoosexuality.

It wouldn't be judging them anyway...but only a title sort of thing.

If I tel you i'm a german, and you call me a german, i'm not going to feel judged or offended.

But their offensive slang terms that are viewed as offensive and oppressive to homosexuals. It's like tossing around the words chin* and ni**er. You just don't do it.

[Brokenhill]

Well, if some do they aren't following doctrine. How you would even know that is beyond me.

In the beginning, all there was was the Catholic Church. Catholic means"universal". The first pope was Apostle Peter, one of Jesus' twelve disciples. How's that for not being authorized by God?
The Easter Orthodox Church split over issues of praying to saints and images.

The Protestant Reformation way later. 16th Century.

Lol...what?

Wow....

See here's the problem...we're all on different levels.

Basic knowledge of things like this are needed to discuss this matter.

Peter was an apostle, he was not the pope...

[Yes. And?]

Lol...what?

Wow....

See here's the problem...we're all on different levels.

Basic knowledge of things like this are needed to discuss this matter.

Peter was an apostle, he was not the pope...
lol...yes?

I agree.

I agree. Go get some.

How about you go crack open a book?

[Brokenhill]

you use that slang term to mean bad, because you think homosexuality is bad. if you were (more) racist, you'd use the n-word.

are you going to keep sitting here and tell me i chose being bi?

1 Corinthians is in the NT, where the verse is found.

And while it was done away with, we are still supposed to look at it for guidance...

So Genisis and maany books or verses are credible.

[Jason Tate]

Lol...what?

Wow....

See here's the problem...we're all on different levels.

Basic knowledge of things like this are needed to discuss this matter.

Peter was an apostle, he was not the pope...
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=5358

Wrong.

Simon Peter or Cephas, the first pope, Prince of the Apostles, and founder, with St. Paul, of the see of Rome.

Yes, basic knowledge is needed and you don't have it.

[Yes. And?]

1 Corinthians is in the NT, where the verse is found.

And while it was done away with, we are still supposed to look at it for guidance...

So Genisis and maany books or verses are credible.
lol what?

[x togepi x]

1 Corinthians is in the NT, where the verse is found.

And while it was done away with, we are still supposed to look at it for guidance...

So Genisis and maany books or verses are credible.

Where did I claim Corinthians is in the Old Testament? I know where it is.

in fact, this post has nothing to do with what i asked.

[Brokenhill]

lol...yes?

I agree.

I agree. Go get some.

How about you go crack open a book?

The only book I need to crack open is the Bible.

[Brokenhill]

I'm schooling you on your religious beliefs. I've explained the history behind your church way better than you have. I come from a Judeo-Christian background. I know what i'm talking about.

if you're so right, how come you can't explain to me when I decided to be bi? Time and time again, you ignore my question because you can't answer it.

Idk why or when did you decide you were bi? How do I know...tell me...

[Jason Tate]

1 Corinthians is in the NT, where the verse is found.

And while it was done away with, we are still supposed to look at it for guidance...

So Genisis and maany books or verses are credible.
Wrong. 1 Cor. does not refer to homosexuality. I have already shown this twice through basic etymology.

[SprungMonkey]

The only book I need to crack open is the Bible.

Which ironically is the book you know the least about.

[Jason Tate]

The only book I need to crack open is the Bible.
And yet you can't even read that correctly.

[Brokenhill]

Where did I claim Corinthians is in the Old Testament? I know where it is.

in fact, this post has nothing to do with what i asked.


It was a reply to Jason...I quoted him...or at least I thought I did...

[x togepi x]

Idk why or when did you decide you were bi? How do I know...tell me...

i was attracted to both men and women. it wasn't a choice, but basic chemistry. how can you tell me i was born heterosexual?

[Brokenhill]

http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=5358

Wrong.

Simon Peter or Cephas, the first pope, Prince of the Apostles, and founder, with St. Paul, of the see of Rome.

Yes, basic knowledge is needed and you don't have it.


There you go again posting what people say is right, not what God said...

In the Bible there is no such thing as the pope...

[Yes. And?]

It was a reply to Jason...I quoted him...or at least I thought I did...
Welcome to internet forum. Anyone can post or reply.

[Jason Tate]

There you go again posting what people say is right, not what God said...

In the Bible there is no such thing as the pope...
In the Bible there is no such thing as a computer either - does it therefore also not exist?

[Yes. And?]

In the Bible there is no such thing as the pope...
:lol:

[Brokenhill]

i was attracted to both men and women. it wasn't a choice, but basic chemistry. how can you tell me i was born heterosexual?


Well you do like woman...

I personally think it's more of a pyschological thing that determines what you're attracted to...like events happening during your childhood or whatever that makes you tihnk you're attracted to the same sex.

Idk, Its just a thought, I don't think about it often...

[Brokenhill]

Which ironically is the book you know the least about.

And yet you can't even read that correctly.


That's the thing thought, I am, you aren't.

[x togepi x]

Well you do like woman...

I personally think it's more of a pyschological thing that determines what you're attracted to...like events happening during your childhood or whatever that makes you tihnk you're attracted to the same sex.

Idk, Its just a thought, I don't think about it often...

Yes, i like people of varying genders.

But, if it's a "psychological thing", then it wouldn't have been a choice, now wouldn't it have been?

[Brokenhill]

In the Bible there is no such thing as a computer either - does it therefore also not exist?


It didn't exist back then...just like the pope...

Those things were just created as time went on.

What a horrible point...don't you take some high college course or something?

[Brokenhill]

Yes, i like people of varying genders.

But, if it's a "psychological thing", then it wouldn't have been a choice, now wouldn't it have been?


I said it makes you think you're homosexual when you're really not...

It's complicated, hard to explain...

[Jason Tate]

Well you do like woman...

I personally think it's more of a pyschological thing that determines what you're attracted to...like events happening during your childhood or whatever that makes you tihnk you're attracted to the same sex.

Idk, Its just a thought, I don't think about it often...
Because if you actually spent time thinking about it at looking at empirical evidence your entire argument would crumble. Put those fingers in your ears ... keep it up .. it's working out well.

[Jason Tate]

It didn't exist back then...just like the pope...

Those things were just created as time went on.

What a horrible point...don't you take some high college course or something?
You've just proven my point. Go back and re-read the linear progression.

[x togepi x]

I said it makes you think you're homosexual when you're really not...

It's complicated, hard to explain...

I don't think i'm homosexual. I'm bi. and I don't "think" that i'm attracted to some men. I am.

You're right. It is VERY complicated, which is why you can't generalize at all and say "well homosexuals choose to be gay."

[Brokenhill]

You've just proven my point. Go back and re-read the linear progression.


IF the pope was created as time went on...then God had no say in that position of power...

Therefore not being a thing that should exist.

However a computer is not a reliogus thing so you can't use that as a point that it shouldn't exist now either.

[Jason Tate]

I find it comical that A Fatal Goodbye continues to be unable to address the most damning evidence against his homophobia: There is nothing in the New Testament which condemns homosexuals. When the words are looked at in context to their time period - the truth behind the passages becomes crystal clear.

[Yes. And?]

IF the pope was created as time went on...then God had no say in that position of power...

Therefore not being a thing that should exist.

However a computer is not a reliogus thing so you can't use that as a point that it shouldn't exist now either.
Pastors, reverends, ushers, ministers, whatever...these should not exist?

[Jason Tate]

IF the pope was created as time went on...then God had no say in that position of power...

Therefore not being a thing that should exist.

However a computer is not a reliogus thing so you can't use that as a point that it shouldn't exist now either.
You said Peter was not the first Pope. This is factually un-true.

I never, ever addressed its legitimacy in regard to religion.

[x togepi x]

Pastors, reverends, ushers, ministers, whatever...these should not exist?

his dad didn't exist back then either, so technically, he can't listen to his dad's religious advice either.

[Derekx]

It didn't exist back then...just like the pope...

Those things were just created as time went on.

What a horrible point...don't you take some high college course or something?

Do you exist? How do you know you exist?

[Brokenhill]

Pastors, reverends, ushers, ministers, whatever...these should not exist?


The bible states there should be Deacons and Elders in the congregation to shepard the flock.

The pope's position is pretty much that he is in control, he leads, the Catcholic denomination.

[Brokenhill]

I find it comical that A Fatal Goodbye continues to be unable to address the most damning evidence against his homophobia: There is nothing in the New Testament which condemns homosexuals. When the words are looked at in context to their time period - the truth behind the passages becomes crystal clear.


1 Cor. 6:9 referrs to homosexuality.

And have you not seen it in Genesis?

[Jason Tate]

The bible states there should be Deacons and Elders in the congregation to shepard the flock.

The pope's position is pretty much that he is in control, he leads, the Catcholic denomination.
"... you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church...."

[Yes. And?]

The bible states there should be Deacons and Elders in the congregation to shepard the flock.

The pope's position is pretty much that he is in control, he leads, the Catcholic denomination.
Same thing.

[Brokenhill]

You said Peter was not the first Pope. This is factually un-true.

I never, ever addressed its legitimacy in regard to religion.


Tell me where it says in the bible that Peter was the first pope and that he started the catcholic church?

Oh yeaaa....you can't...it's not in there.

[Brokenhill]

Do you exist? How do you know you exist?


Who are you ? Go away.

What a stupid point...

[icyeyes26]

Peace and Love guys!!!!M-(

[Brokenhill]

Same thing.


But it's not.