The Official Iowa Caucus Thread

[senatorlamb]

Post your predictions and/or wishes for the Republican and Democratic Iowa Caucus here. It will take place on January 3, 2008. With the stock piling of primaries, the fluid nature of the GOP race, and the three way tie in the Democratic field, Iowa looks to play a bigger role than ever.

May the best man/woman win.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Flag_of_Iowa.svg/670px-Flag_of_Iowa.svg.png

[asmolitor]

i still think huckabee comes out on top in iowa. as for the other side, anything less than a coin flip wouldn't do justice.

[senatorlamb]

i still think huckabee comes out on top in iowa. as for the other side, anything less than a coin flip wouldn't do justice.

I don't believe Huckabee will run away with it, Romney will be a tight second, and John McCain will have some momentum.

[saysmydoctor]

McCain hasn't got shit. It'll be Huckabee and Romney virtually tied with Guiliani following closely (sounds like Nascar). Iowa is too predictable, I always pay more attention Super Tuesday and the New Hampshire primaries. Those New England hippes (no offense, seriously..) always are the most random voters ever.

[asmolitor]

... but you do realize iowa/new hampshire have a large influence on super tuesday, right?

[chris1152]

My prediction lays on Huckabee for the GOP and Hillary for the democrats.

[wesgemm08]

Romney and Edwards

[bossman calling]

I predict Huckabee and Obama...but barely. And it's the only thing Huckabee wins.

[saysmydoctor]

... but you do realize iowa/new hampshire have a large influence on super tuesday, right?
Even apes recognize this. What's your point?

[wesgemm08]

Hopefully joe biden stays in the race after a 4th place finish and is able to gain some momentum/actual press coverage before going into the other early states (pre super tuesday states).

[lauren<3s music]

I love that someone made this!!!

As much as I hope and pray I think Huckabee is going to take it in Iowa.

Hilary for the Dems with a TIGHT margin (i'm going >5%) over obama

[lauren<3s music]

Hopefully joe biden stays in the race after a 4th place finish and is able to gain some momentum/actual press coverage before going into the other early states (pre super tuesday states).

love biden but let's face it he's not going to go very far with his foot in mouth disease

[boykosaurus]

I believe Republican side will be very close and between Huckabuckleberry, Romney, and Guliani. And, I think Obama will come out on top for the Dems, with Hilldog and Edwards following.

[Justin_stacy]

The last poll I saw had Hilary rebounding in Iowa, and I think she'll take the state. Obama will have a close second place finish, but Obama is the one to gain as a bad third place showing by dopey Edwards will help Obama in the long run as his supporters are more likely to favor Obama over Hilary.

Huckabee seems to have the GOP locked.....which must make Democrats salivate. If Huckabee can hold on he's probably the worst nominee since Carter to when his parties nomination and will be an easy defeat by either the universally hated Hilary or the weak-center-stage-Obama.

[lauren<3s music]

The last poll I saw had Hilary rebounding in Iowa, and I think she'll take the state. Obama will have a close second place finish, but Obama is the one to gain as a bad third place showing by dopey Edwards will help Obama in the long run as his supporters are more likely to favor Obama over Hilary.

Huckabee seems to have the GOP locked.....which must make Democrats salivate. If Huckabee can hold on he's probably the worst nominee since Carter to when his parties nomination and will be an easy defeat by either the universally hated Hilary or the weak-center-stage-Obama.

interesting descriptors there.

[patpratt]

This is probably a juvenile statement, but I'm just trying to learn more about this years race as I will be eligible to vote in the upcoming election for the first time.

If Hillary wins in Iowa, she will probably be the primary, right? I mean, New Hampshire will probably go to Hillary because it's so close to New York, and Edwards will win South Carolina because he is from there, right? Therefor, if Hillary wins Iowa, she's up 2-1, yeah?

What's Super Tuesday?

[captainhampton]

Huckabee seems to have the GOP locked.....which must make Democrats salivate. If Huckabee can hold on he's probably the worst nominee since Carter to when his parties nomination and will be an easy defeat by either the universally hated Hilary or the weak-center-stage-Obama.

I remember watching some of the first debates and liking his sense of humor and he seemed like a good guy, but I could never had predicted this sudden rise. While I like his personality, he just isn't presidential material and the democrats will eat him alive in the general election. I hope the GOP realizes this, but I fear that you are right and this recent momentum will give him the GOP.

As for Iowa: Huckabee and Clinton. Romney and Obama in 2nd. Giuliani isn't going to fare well at all in Iowa.

[Justin_stacy]

interesting descriptors there.

i'm kind of bias, but i try to be fair.;-)

[lauren<3s music]

This is probably a juvenile statement, but I'm just trying to learn more about this years race as I will be eligible to vote in the upcoming election for the first time.

If Hillary wins in Iowa, she will probably be the primary, right? I mean, New Hampshire will probably go to Hillary because it's so close to New York, and Edwards will win South Carolina because he is from there, right? Therefor, if Hillary wins Iowa, she's up 2-1, yeah?

What's Super Tuesday?

hey you want to be informed thats a good thing! i'm not sure how much you know, but i always recommend project vote smart.

http://www.vote-smart.org/election_president.php

they've got a lot of information you asked about in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Tuesday

basically its the day most of the primaries are held on.

[lauren<3s music]

I remember watching some of the first debates and liking his sense of humor and he seemed like a good guy, but I could never had predicted this sudden rise. While I like his personality, he just isn't presidential material and the democrats will eat him alive in the general election. I hope the GOP realizes this, but I fear that you are right and this recent momentum will give him the GOP.

As for Iowa: Huckabee and Clinton. Romney and Obama in 2nd. Giuliani isn't going to fare well at all in Iowa.

huckabee is scary, when you start to hear him talk about his platforms. but he's "charming" ick.

i'm kind of bias, but i try to be fair.;-)

sure thing

[Justin_stacy]

I remember watching some of the first debates and liking his sense of humor and he seemed like a good guy, but I could never had predicted this sudden rise. While I like his personality, he just isn't presidential material and the democrats will eat him alive in the general election. I hope the GOP realizes this, but I fear that you are right and this recent momentum will give him the GOP.


McCain is the only hope the Republicans have of defeating either Obama or Hilary on a national stage. But hard line-primary voters don't like him. So in turn the party loses.

This is the problem with the primary process. No ill will towards Iowa or New Hampshire, but they don't absolutely reflect the nation’s values nor should these small state have this much power in deciding the national nominees. American politics are ridiculous, but the primary process is criminal.

[patpratt]

hey you want to be informed thats a good thing! i'm not sure how much you know, but i always recommend project vote smart.

http://www.vote-smart.org/election_president.php

they've got a lot of information you asked about in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Tuesday

basically its the day most of the primaries are held on.

excellent thank you!

[lauren<3s music]

McCain is the only hope the Republicans have of defeating either Obama or Hilary on a national stage. But hard line-primary voters don't like him. So in turn the party loses.

This is the problem with the primary process. No ill will towards Iowa or New Hampshire, but they don't absolutely reflect the nation’s values nor should these small state have this much power in deciding the national nominees. American politics are ridiculous, but the primary process is criminal.

i disagree. i think McCain has no shot on a national level, but Guiliani could.

excellent thank you!

welcome!

[asmolitor]

Even apes recognize this. What's your point?

...because you said you pay more attention to super tuesday - when IA/NH directly influence what happens on super tuesday.

[mattybobviously]

What I'd like to see: Huckabee and Obama

Huckabee has nothing going in New Hampshire, and even if he got the Republican nomination, people will finally figure out about all of his great platforms. I'm confident in Obama's standing there, however, dropping to Hillary isn't bad at all, we just have to beat Edwards.

Skipping school for NH primaries, going to be a fun (stressful as hell) day.

[lauren<3s music]

What I'd like to see: Huckabee and Obama

Huckabee has nothing going in New Hampshire, and even if he got the Republican nomination, people will finally figure out about all of his great platforms. I'm confident in Obama's standing there, however, dropping to Hillary isn't bad at all, we just have to beat Edwards.

Skipping school for NH primaries, going to be a fun (stressful as hell) day.

have no fear, obama will beat edwards. that man has more charisma than anyone i've ever met in my entire life

[mattybobviously]

Have to love Huckabee, goes on forever about just how dishonest Romney is, and how you simply cannot have a dishonest president, then is asked what he'd do if a Romney is the nominee. Said he'd vote Republican.

[lauren<3s music]

Have to love Huckabee, goes on forever about just how dishonest Romney is, and how you simply cannot have a dishonest president, then is asked what he'd do if a Romney is the nominee. Said he'd vote Republican.

and quarantine people with aids. he's an ass.

[asmolitor]

What I'd like to see: Huckabee and Obama

Huckabee has nothing going in New Hampshire, and even if he got the Republican nomination, people will finally figure out about all of his great platforms. I'm confident in Obama's standing there, however, dropping to Hillary isn't bad at all, we just have to beat Edwards.

Skipping school for NH primaries, going to be a fun (stressful as hell) day.

haha, i got let out of school early in 2004 to go vote. high school was fun like that.

[MaxMarginal]

My predictions:

Democratic:

I think that Hillary will win by a little. I thought Obama was going to squeeze it by but the Bhutto assassination has, for better or worse, made the people who can at least claim to be foreign policy heavyweights (my jury is out on whether Clinton really is one) look better than those who can't (read: Obama.) It's too bad because I'd rather have Obama than Hillary but I think that she has responded better to this and it has drawn blood.

I think that if this were a primary and not a caucus, Biden and Richardson would do better than expected but (correct me if I'm wrong) don't you need 15% of the people to caucus for you to keep your supporters? It's a weird process but I think that Clinton will get more Biden's and Richardson's if they don't hit 15%, which either of them possibly could b/c of the whole foreign affairs experience being thrust into the spotlight business. It's very unpredictable and I'm enjoying it, I'll say that much. It's very exciting political theater and I wouldn't place a bet on any of them.

Republican:

Well, I sure thought Huckabee had it in the bag until making these remarks which he is being rightfully lambasted for, showing that when it comes to foreign affairs he is a complete boob. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/us/politics/29memo.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin) I'm glad the truth came out. However, I don't think that Romney has as much to benefit from this as McCain and Rudy, who are both polling so low that a victory seems pretty improbable. So, I think the most likely scenario is either Huckabee or Romney beating one another by a small margin, and Rudy and McCain doing FAR BETTER than expected, which gives them both a lot of momentum going into New Hampshire, which McCain will win.

Also, complete unpredictable and fun to watch.

Last - Ron Paul will do far better than expected in Iowa. Out-of-state college students and independents, as well as the people with cell phones that haven't been getting polled will turn out in droves and he could get well into the teens, which will embarrass anyone who does worse than him and has marginalized him as a fringe candidate (like I have, because I think that he is Rose from the Golden Girls.)

[asmolitor]

McCain is the only hope the Republicans have of defeating either Obama or Hilary on a national stage. But hard line-primary voters don't like him. So in turn the party loses.

This is the problem with the primary process. No ill will towards Iowa or New Hampshire, but they don't absolutely reflect the nation’s values nor should these small state have this much power in deciding the national nominees. American politics are ridiculous, but the primary process is criminal.

well, they're like the token representatives for the homeland and elites. have you seen the plans for a regional primary system? i think the reforms are actually worse than the current plan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_Regional_Primary_System

however, there's another one similar to that which calls for like one state per region per week or something. i saw it on abc news at like 2am over christmas. that might be a step forward.

[Justin_stacy]

i disagree. i think McCain has no shot on a national level, but Guiliani could.


Guiliani is going to have a tough time just caring his own party, let alone outsiders. McCain can still pull the center, and unlike his main rivals knows what the fuck he's talking about and has a decent record to stand on.

On the center stage I think he could easily beat Hilary, who desperately needs a weak Republican candidate to counter her personal unpopularity numbers (Huckabee would be a perfect fit). With Obama, the fact that he’s all fluff and no substance is going to hurt him on a national setting. He can’t debate which is only slightly noticeable in a large group format, but will be painfully clear on a one on one level. I just don’t see either of these two beating McCain. Although i do think both could beating Romney, Thompsons, Rudy or Huckabee.

[pilot_light_out]

I live in Iowa and this time of the year sucks nuts. Traffic is crazy. Might as well stay home and lock the doors.

[Justin_stacy]

well, they're like the token representatives for the homeland and elites. have you seen the plans for a regional primary system? i think the reforms are actually worse than the current plan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_Regional_Primary_System

however, there's another one similar to that which calls for like one state per region per week or something. i saw it on abc news at like 2am over christmas. that might be a step forward.


That doesn’t really seem to solve anything. Besides any plan that still allows Iowa and New Hampshire an early exception is wrong and unfair, given the two state’s status. Level of voice should be based on status within the union. Larger population, equals a larger voice. So long as all have some form of a vote.

Personally I think the states should be broken up into two groups. The eight or ten top populated states in one group and the 40 or so lower populated states in another. Let the smaller states vote one week, and then a few weeks later let the higher populated states votes. Two “super Tuesdays.” Small states weed out the field, and Larger states pick the nomination. I don’t know, its impractical probably, but its seems fairer then the nonsense we have now.

[senatorlamb]

McCain hasn't got shit. It'll be Huckabee and Romney virtually tied with Guiliani following closely (sounds like Nascar). Iowa is too predictable, I always pay more attention Super Tuesday and the New Hampshire primaries. Those New England hippes (no offense, seriously..) always are the most random voters ever.

Haven't you seen the latest polls and news stories that talk of a McCain comeback. He is a possible spoiler in New Hampshire and he has moved into third place in Iowa after the Des Moines Register endorsement.

[senatorlamb]

Why can't everyone vote on the same day? Surely that is the most democratic?

Because the big states tend to favor the front runners with the most money. Iowa and New Hampshire allow for underdogs to make upsets. I agree the system needs to be changed, but the beginning contests should favor more smaller, more retail politics friendly states.

[rikfrommf]

Obama in Iowa, Huck's too. Edwards in third I think effectively rules him out for nominations, too many of his supporters will go over to Obama.

[senatorlamb]

I want Obama to win but I have a feeling it will be:

Clinton
Edwards
Obama,
and Biden a respectable fourth

that's just a hunch as of now.

[senatorlamb]

My predictions:

Democratic:

I think that Hillary will win by a little. I thought Obama was going to squeeze it by but the Bhutto assassination has, for better or worse, made the people who can at least claim to be foreign policy heavyweights (my jury is out on whether Clinton really is one) look better than those who can't (read: Obama.) It's too bad because I'd rather have Obama than Hillary but I think that she has responded better to this and it has drawn blood.

I think that if this were a primary and not a caucus, Biden and Richardson would do better than expected but (correct me if I'm wrong) don't you need 15% of the people to caucus for you to keep your supporters? It's a weird process but I think that Clinton will get more Biden's and Richardson's if they don't hit 15%, which either of them possibly could b/c of the whole foreign affairs experience being thrust into the spotlight business. It's very unpredictable and I'm enjoying it, I'll say that much. It's very exciting political theater and I wouldn't place a bet on any of them.

Republican:

Well, I sure thought Huckabee had it in the bag until making these remarks which he is being rightfully lambasted for, showing that when it comes to foreign affairs he is a complete boob. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/us/politics/29memo.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin) I'm glad the truth came out. However, I don't think that Romney has as much to benefit from this as McCain and Rudy, who are both polling so low that a victory seems pretty improbable. So, I think the most likely scenario is either Huckabee or Romney beating one another by a small margin, and Rudy and McCain doing FAR BETTER than expected, which gives them both a lot of momentum going into New Hampshire, which McCain will win.

Also, complete unpredictable and fun to watch.

Last - Ron Paul will do far better than expected in Iowa. Out-of-state college students and independents, as well as the people with cell phones that haven't been getting polled will turn out in droves and he could get well into the teens, which will embarrass anyone who does worse than him and has marginalized him as a fringe candidate (like I have, because I think that he is Rose from the Golden Girls.)

I agree with pretty much everything you said, except I see Giualini among the bottom in Iowa, possibly even outdone by Ron Paul. His organization there is shit.

[lauren<3s music]

Guiliani is going to have a tough time just caring his own party, let alone outsiders. McCain can still pull the center, and unlike his main rivals knows what the fuck he's talking about and has a decent record to stand on.

On the center stage I think he could easily beat Hilary, who desperately needs a weak Republican candidate to counter her personal unpopularity numbers (Huckabee would be a perfect fit). With Obama, the fact that he’s all fluff and no substance is going to hurt him on a national setting. He can’t debate which is only slightly noticeable in a large group format, but will be painfully clear on a one on one level. I just don’t see either of these two beating McCain. Although i do think both could beating Romney, Thompsons, Rudy or Huckabee.

i think that guilani would have a hard time with the conservatives in his party but that of all of them him and romney would be the biggest threat to the dems for the reasons they wont win the nomination.

i see either of them beating mccain because mccain lacks the finesse of a true candidate and i don't think he'd do well with the general public. obama may have"fluff" [which i disagree with but separate convo] but he is extraordinarily charismatic which you can't discount in how the public votes

[8:17am]

I haven't posted on here in so long, and I show up today to make an Iowa prediction thread and find this. Serendipitous timing, indeed.

I think Huckabee has it locked down on the Republican side, with a 2-3-4 finish of Romney, Thompson, McCain. Unfortunately, Ron Paul doesn't have much traction.

It's a jump ball on the Democratic side. I'm an Edwards supporter, but in the last couple of months I've gone over to Joe Biden. I honestly see the die hards, most of whom support Edwards in Iowa, will show up and vote for him, and enough people will vote for Biden to detract from Clinton. I see a third place finish for Hillary in Iowa behind Edwards and Obama, especially after second ballot votes, because voters in the Iowa caucus are allowed to change their vote if their candidate doesn't perform well on the first ballot (or so I read on NYTimes.com). I think enough Dodd/Richardson supporters will pick Edwards as a second choice, and if Hillary gets trounced on the first ballot, some of her supporters will look elsewhere too. I think Biden takes a strong fourth, playing the spoiler and underdog to boost Edwards to a win, put Obama in second, and basically winning him New Hampshire, and finishing Clinton third.

Post Iowa: Dodd drops out, endorses Biden. Richardson drops out, endorses Clinton. Biden shows up big in New Hampshire, possibly outclassing Edwards for third. Nevada is a two pony race between Clinton and Edwards, who has broad labor support in an SEIU heavy state, setting the stage for a South Carolina jump ball.

It's totally and likely possible that I'm embarrassingly wrong at this point, but that's the way I see it.

[saysmydoctor]

...because you said you pay more attention to super tuesday - when IA/NH directly influence what happens on super tuesday.
Actually--voters directly influence what happens on Super Tuesday. IA/NH are what the media bases their predictions for Super Tuesday on. Duuuuuuuuuh.
Haven't you seen the latest polls and news stories that talk of a McCain comeback. He is a possible spoiler in New Hampshire and he has moved into third place in Iowa after the Des Moines Register endorsement.
Typical media skepticism.

[lauren<3s music]

I haven't posted on here in so long, and I show up today to make an Iowa prediction thread and find this. Serendipitous timing, indeed.

I think Huckabee has it locked down on the Republican side, with a 2-3-4 finish of Romney, Thompson, McCain. Unfortunately, Ron Paul doesn't have much traction.

It's a jump ball on the Democratic side. I'm an Edwards supporter, but in the last couple of months I've gone over to Joe Biden. I honestly see the die hards, most of whom support Edwards in Iowa, will show up and vote for him, and enough people will vote for Biden to detract from Clinton. I see a third place finish for Hillary in Iowa behind Edwards and Obama, especially after second ballot votes, because voters in the Iowa caucus are allowed to change their vote if their candidate doesn't perform well on the first ballot (or so I read on NYTimes.com). I think enough Dodd/Richardson supporters will pick Edwards as a second choice, and if Hillary gets trounced on the first ballot, some of her supporters will look elsewhere too. I think Biden takes a strong fourth, playing the spoiler and underdog to boost Edwards to a win, put Obama in second, and basically winning him New Hampshire, and finishing Clinton third.

Post Iowa: Dodd drops out, endorses Biden. Richardson drops out, endorses Clinton. Biden shows up big in New Hampshire, possibly outclassing Edwards for third. Nevada is a two pony race between Clinton and Edwards, who has broad labor support in an SEIU heavy state, setting the stage for a South Carolina jump ball.

It's totally and likely possible that I'm embarrassingly wrong at this point, but that's the way I see it.

clinton BEHIND edwards. sorry that made me actually laugh out loud. granted i dislike her but i think edwards is losing ground quickly.

[thetrueblood]

i'd say huckabee and obama.

[lauren<3s music]

i'd say huckabee and obama.

between the two who do you think would win the whole thing?

[boykosaurus]

Obama

...::drops mic::

[thetrueblood]

between the two who do you think would win the whole thing?

The whole thing being the presidency?

I don't think in the end Huckabee will take the nomination even if he wins Iowa. Obama's popularity will skyrocket if he wins this one.

If for some reason it does come down to the two of them, Obama wins.

[lauren<3s music]

Obama

...::drops mic::

hahhaa

The whole thing being the presidency?

I don't think in the end Huckabee will take the nomination even if he wins Iowa. Obama's popularity will skyrocket if he wins this one.

If for some reason it does come down to the two of them, Obama wins.

who do you think will then? sheer curiosity

[thetrueblood]

hahhaa

who do you think will then? sheer curiosity

I think Giuliani will pull it off.

Giuliani vs. Clinton: Giuliani wins.
Giuliani vs. Obama: Obama wins.

all speculation, of course.

[asmolitor]

Actually--voters directly influence what happens on Super Tuesday. IA/NH are what the media bases their predictions for Super Tuesday on. Duuuuuuuuuh.

right, because john kerry was a leading candidate in 2004 before he swept the two. and it's no coincedence that those two crucial wins catapaulted him into the minds of voters in future primaries.

there's even more importance given to IA/NH in this election, as Super Tuesday is in early February, a month earlier than usual, so IA/NH victories/defeats stay fresh in voters' minds.

[lauren<3s music]

I think Giuliani will pull it off.

Giuliani vs. Clinton: Giuliani wins.
Giuliani vs. Obama: Obama wins.

all speculation, of course.

i can see that happening. i think people are writing off guiliani too quickly.

[saysmydoctor]

right, because john kerry was a leading candidate in 2004 before he swept the two. and it's no coincedence that those two crucial wins catapaulted him into the minds of voters in future primaries.

there's even more importance given to IA/NH in this election, as Super Tuesday is in early February, a month earlier than usual, so IA/NH victories/defeats stay fresh in voters' minds.
Nope, Dean was until he lost and Kerry won--what did that? Maybe voters.

Why is it still on our mind?
Oh yah! The news doesn't stop repeating itself.

[8:17am]

clinton BEHIND edwards. sorry that made me actually laugh out loud. granted i dislike her but i think edwards is losing ground quickly.

Edwards and Clinton have both had internal polls that put him in the lead.

[asmolitor]

Nope, Dean was until he lost and Kerry won--what did that? Maybe voters.

Why is it still on our mind?
Oh yah! The news doesn't stop repeating itself.

you just made my point for me, by ignoring the blatant sarcasm of the my first sentence. to even imply that IA/NH doesn't have a huge effect on super tuesday is woefully ignorant.

[lauren<3s music]

Edwards and Clinton have both had internal polls that put him in the lead.

still i don't think he'll pull it off. i think it will be a toss up for clinton and obama to go 1 and 2

[thetrueblood]

still i don't think he'll pull it off. i think it will be a toss up for clinton and obama to go 1 and 2

Agreed.

[senatorlamb]

still i don't think he'll pull it off. i think it will be a toss up for clinton and obama to go 1 and 2

The caucus is not a primary. It's a weird old school system that is dependent on experienced caucus goers. Edwards' supporters are mostly older, union type. He has the advantage over Obama's relative newbies.

[lauren<3s music]

The caucus is not a primary. It's a weird old school system that is dependent on experienced caucus goers. Edwards' supporters are mostly older, union type. He has the advantage over Obama's relative newbies.

yeah i know what the difference is thanks. And i think that Hillary will take most of the union members seeing as she has the the backing of most. and i still think obama will take edwards

[saysmydoctor]

you just made my point for me, by ignoring the blatant sarcasm of the my first sentence. to even imply that IA/NH doesn't have a huge effect on super tuesday is woefully ignorant.
Not really, the IA/NH results affect what the media relays to us up until Super Tuesday. What you are implying is that small-minded Americans (AKA Super Tuesday voters) are directly effected by those results. Not true, only what they see on The Situation Room is directly affected by IA/NH. Everything else is free will.

[MaxMarginal]

Just wanted to chime in and say that Biden was right about how if Iowa wasn't first it would all come down to money. As crazy as it is to have so much of the election info come out of Iowa campaigning, I like that there's a little litmus area where everyone has to get up close with the people and we all get reporting from it. Beddd time.

[mattybobviously]

Final Des Moines Register polls:

Obama: 32%
Clinton: 25%
Edwards: 24%

[saysmydoctor]

I'd rather Obama than dumb bitch Clinton.

[thetrueblood]

I'd rather Obama than dumb bitch Clinton.

When Hillary did her fake laugh and said "I can't wait to hear this one" after Obama was asked how he was going to provide new politics while using previous Clinton advisers it made me truly despise her. It was just a classic bitchy ex-g/f reaction and reflected very poorly on her.

[Justin_stacy]

i think that guilani would have a hard time with the conservatives in his party but that of all of them him and romney would be the biggest threat to the dems for the reasons they wont win the nomination.

i see either of them beating mccain because mccain lacks the finesse of a true candidate and i don't think he'd do well with the general public. obama may have"fluff" [which i disagree with but separate convo] but he is extraordinarily charismatic which you can't discount in how the public votes
my two cents.

Rudy will have a hard time with anyone who is not a party hardliner. Conservatives don’t like him, moderates don’t like him, and the so-called “religious right” doesn’t like him......only those that vote by party line seem to have love for him. And on the opposing side Rudy is hated almost as much as Bush, which means he’ll have the hardest time getting independent voters and disenchanted democrats.

McCain is a little different, although no one down right loves him, no one hates him. Conservatives, moderates, and independents all don’t seem to mind him, and many democrats also don’t seem to have a problem with him either (particularly the more conservative ones who will be at odds with an Edwards or Clinton nomination). Where as most front runners are divisive figures; McCain is a more neutral. He is also, with the exception of Biden, the only one who has shown any ability to work across party lines, and at the same time prove he knows his stuff. I don’t disagree that he certainly lacks finesse and at times seems to have the mind of Abraham Simpson, but these are controllable attributes. .

As for Obama, yes you can say he’s charismatic, but he’s no Reagan, Kennedy or (Bill) Clinton. Besides charisma alone can’t get you elected. You have to have some substances to your message or something that sets you apart from the others running. Obama really has neither, and although he can talk the talk when he’s alone......in a group setting he looks and acts like a dear in headlights. A strong Republican would have a field day with him in the debates. But of course he could win, but in a year that should be a Democratic landslide, I think there are many on the GOP side who would now love to take him on instead of the once easily defeatable Hilary.

[lauren<3s music]

my two cents.

Rudy will have a hard time with anyone who is not a party hardliner. Conservatives don’t like him, moderates don’t like him, and the so-called “religious right” doesn’t like him......only those that vote by party line seem to have love for him. And on the opposing side Rudy is hated almost as much as Bush, which means he’ll have the hardest time getting independent voters and disenchanted democrats.

McCain is a little different, although no one down right loves him, no one hates him. Conservatives, moderates, and independents all don’t seem to mind him, and many democrats also don’t seem to have a problem with him either (particularly the more conservative ones who will be at odds with an Edwards or Clinton nomination). Where as most front runners are divisive figures; McCain is a more neutral. He is also, with the exception of Biden, the only one who has shown any ability to work across party lines, and at the same time prove he knows his stuff. I don’t disagree that he certainly lacks finesse and at times seems to have the mind of Abraham Simpson, but these are controllable attributes. .

As for Obama, yes you can say he’s charismatic, but he’s no Reagan, Kennedy or (Bill) Clinton. Besides charisma alone can’t get you elected. You have to have some substances to your message or something that sets you apart from the others running. Obama really has neither, and although he can talk the talk when he’s alone......in a group setting he looks and acts like a dear in headlights. A strong Republican would have a field day with him in the debates. But of course he could win, but in a year that should be a Democratic landslide, I think there are many on the GOP side who would now love to take him on instead of the once easily defeatable Hilary.

while not talking about the primaries...i think a lot of people underestimate the appeal of rudy especially to the general public. I also just don't think they're going to nominate McCain bc i dont think he has a lot of mass appeal. i just think he's the most blah out of the bunch and not very "electable."

i disagree that obama doesn't have a lot of substance, but i think thats a matter of ideological differences.

[chris1152]

while not talking about the primaries...i think a lot of people underestimate the appeal of rudy especially to the general public. I also just don't think they're going to nominate McCain bc i dont think he has a lot of mass appeal. i just think he's the most blah out of the bunch and not very "electable."

i disagree that obama doesn't have a lot of substance, but i think thats a matter of ideological differences.

I agree with the Rudy thing, most people that lived through 9/11 know of how he handled the situation in NYC and thus he is somewhat a household name. I don't think it'll get him the win in Iowa, though, or the nom overall.

[lauren<3s music]

I agree with the Rudy thing, most people that lived through 9/11 know of how he handled the situation in NYC and thus he is somewhat a household name. I don't think it'll get him the win in Iowa, though, or the nom overall.

i agree but i think he's one of the bigger threats to the dems. i think if they put up someone like huckabee or mccain, they'll get stomped on.

[saysmydoctor]

Wasn't Reagan a republican? I've never seen him lumped with Kennedy or Clinton.

[lauren<3s music]

Wasn't Reagan a republican? I've never seen him lumped with Kennedy or Clinton.

yes.

he is when referring to charisma. he [apparently] was very charming which is often one of the reasons cited for his political success

[saysmydoctor]

I thought that almost immediately after I posted.

[MaxMarginal]

Does anyone else not remotely understand why Dodd got no momentum, aside from lack of funds? Every complaint I hear about any of the front runners, I think "wow, Dodd doesn't have that problem." I know he won't win, but he's polling at like 1%, despite being probably the most presidential of the bunch.

[bossman calling]

It's not that difficult, really. It's star power. Clinton, Obama and Edwards need no introductions; all have near universal name recognition. Clinton as Clinton, Obama as a charasmatic black man and Edwards as that single-issue guy who was the VP candidate four years ago.

Dodd may have some better ideas, but on the surface (which is unfortunately what counts during the primaries these days), he's just a boring, old, white, life-long Democratic Congressman from New England...not exactly the epitome of electability.

[Justin_stacy]

while not talking about the primaries...i think a lot of people underestimate the appeal of rudy especially to the general public. I also just don't think they're going to nominate McCain bc i dont think he has a lot of mass appeal. i just think he's the most blah out of the bunch and not very "electable."

i disagree that obama doesn't have a lot of substance, but i think thats a matter of ideological differences.

That “blah” could equate, in instances like this, to being the least controversial, least divisive, and most like to be a unifier of all those running. Again it comes back to the fact that no one hates him, and very few, on either side of the political spectrum, have a negative view of him. Against Hilary, who has at the very least a 50% negativity rating, I think he could pull off a victory. And winability should be a key factor in primary/caucus voting.

With Obama, I don’t think it’s as much ideology as it is presentation. I’ve voted for just as many Democrats in my life as Republicans, and I‘m not blind or unresponsive to their message. But the truth is Obama’s done nothing to differentiate himself from the entire front running Democrats, and his dismal debates show a side of unpreparedness and coaching. I just don't see what he offers that others don't.

[lauren<3s music]

That “blah” could equate, in instances like this, to being the least controversial, least divisive, and most like to be a unifier of all those running. Again it comes back to the fact that no one hates him, and very few, on either side of the political spectrum, have a negative view of him. Against Hilary, who has at the very least a 50% negativity rating, I think he could pull off a victory. And winability should be a key factor in primary/caucus voting.

With Obama, I don’t think it’s as much ideology as it is presentation. I’ve voted for just as many Democrats in my life as Republicans, and I‘m not blind or unresponsive to their message. But the truth is Obama’s done nothing to differentiate himself from the entire front running Democrats, and his dismal debates show a side of unpreparedness and coaching. I just don't see what he offers that others don't.

i think this is how i feel about McCain.

[Justin_stacy]

i think this is how i feel about McCain.

;-)

[lauren<3s music]

;-)

hey i mean he's rebounding well. and id take mccain over huckabee any day

[Justin_stacy]

hey i mean he's rebounding well. and id take mccain over huckabee any day
Have you ever seen Huckabee talk to a crowd? He acts like a preacher man talking to his flock......something about that just gives me the creeps when it comes to politics. I hated Kerry because he spoke as if he was superior to his audience; I can’t stand Huckabee because he talks as though he’s our savoir.

[lauren<3s music]

Have you ever seen Huckabee talk to a crowd? He acts like a preacher man talking to his flock......something about that just gives me the creeps when it comes to politics. I hated Kerry because he spoke as if he was superior to his audience; I can’t stand Huckabee because he talks as though he’s our savoir.

i have and i also went on his site and the man is a whaccck job.

its interesting you say that about Kerry. i can see where that would irritate you, because you are educated and rational. What i love is when people are like well i'd vote for him because hes the kind of guy i could go have a beer with. is that REALLY who you want leading our country?!?! some average joe? freaks me out. i agree with you though that kerry wasn't very personable even to his base, which is why he lost. then again i'd take superiority over the preaching any day.

and look we agree! down with huckabee. ha

[alkaline!flower]

Does huckabee really think the earth may only be 6000 years old? thats just a random allegation I heard somewhere but I don't have a hard time believing it. Thats sad

[Justin_stacy]

i have and i also went on his site and the man is a whaccck job.

its interesting you say that about Kerry. i can see where that would irritate you, because you are educated and rational. What i love is when people are like well i'd vote for him because hes the kind of guy i could go have a beer with. is that REALLY who you want leading our country?!?! some average joe? freaks me out. i agree with you though that kerry wasn't very personable even to his base, which is why he lost. then again i'd take superiority over the preaching any day.

and look we agree! down with huckabee. ha

ah yes the having a Busch with Bush syndrome. Ya, I wasn’t much a fan of that either. I want my leaders personable and approachable, but not a friend.

Whose your second choice after Obama (and i'm assuming he's your "front runner")....?

[lauren<3s music]

ah yes the having a Busch with Bush syndrome. Ya, I wasn’t much a fan of that either. I want my leaders personable and approachable, but not a friend.

Whose your second choice after Obama (and i'm assuming he's your "front runner")....?

actually he's not! i'm not 100% sure to be honest because the guy i liked [Dodd] isn't going to get it obv. i think i could be okay with obama and hillary mostly because all of the republican scare the shit out of me. my ideal candidate isn't running for pres but will be for senate soon :-)s

[RedWineSheets]

Today is the beginning of the end of the Bush Administration...:-)

I predict Edwards, Obama, and then Clinton.

[Nevuk]

I predict that it will be interesting and unpredictable.

[lauren<3s music]

Today is the beginning of the end of the Bush Administration...:-)

I predict Edwards, Obama, and then Clinton.

ha if only.

an optimist for edwards i see? best of luck

[Justin_stacy]

actually he's not! i'm not 100% sure to be honest because the guy i liked [Dodd] isn't going to get it obv. i think i could be okay with obama and hillary mostly because all of the republican scare the shit out of me. my ideal candidate isn't running for pres but will be for senate soon :-)s

Dodd? Can’t say that I’ve given him much thought. For me the best democrat running is Biden. Issues wise we differ some, but he is a man of integrity (something that‘s been lacking for the past 16 years), a family man, experienced and a man who truly loves his country. He seems to have a firm grasp on foreign policy, but still puts America first, something is very important to me. He can’t win because politics is all about money and name recognition, and he has neither, but he’d make a good VP if his pride would allow him to take the position.

Of the front runners, besides Edwards, clearly a wolf in sheep’s clothing, and Huckabee no one really scares me. Both of these men are phony and hidden, and seem to be just reeking of “slim”.

[lauren<3s music]

Dodd? Can’t say that I’ve given him much thought. For me the best democrat running is Biden. Issues wise we differ some, but he is a man of integrity (something that‘s been lacking for the past 16 years), a family man, experienced and a man who truly loves his country. He seems to have a firm grasp on foreign policy, but still puts America first, something is very important to me. He can’t win because politics is all about money and name recognition, and he has neither, but he’d make a good VP if his pride would allow him to take the position.

Of the front runners, besides Edwards, clearly a wolf in sheep’s clothing, and Huckabee no one really scares me. Both of these men are phony and hidden, and seem to be just reeking of “slim”.

wow. you and i have a lot in common. i have the utmost respect for biden. those are the some of the same reasons i like dodd. i want to see someone up there with a TON of fp experience because thats what we really need at this point. the whole family man thing doesnt really matter to me, but i agree with putting america first [which in my minds also means realizing when this country needs to back down for the overall good in the longrun].

i don't like edwards and i don't think he's really so honest either. something about him just doesn't sit right with me. plus i mean god damn he has no experience. and personally i dont think running for VP gives you the experience you need to be pres. i'm talking actually substance. then again i don't think obama or hillary have enough experience as i'd like to see but at least hillary has a clue how the white house works. the governors (while i hate them all) have experience managing, but lack fp experience.

aka it all sucks. go dodd and biden! (i wish)

[bossman calling]

During a time of global conflict, any governor candidate would need a strong FP-experienced VP...this is an area that the Democrats have an advantage (Richardson, Gen. Clark, Sen. Biden) and something that the Republicans currently lack. If you remember, Gov. Reagan had Bush Sr. and Gov. GW Bush had Cheney. The only reason Clinton got away with Gore is because the FP direction of the US was a bit feel-good and a bit disarrayed after our big enemy (USSR) fell in 1989.

But of course, who expected GW Bush to pull Cheney out of nowhere? I'm sure they'll come up with someone again. But so far the only name I've heard mentioned from outside of the POTUS candidate pool is Gov. Mark Sanford of SC, who, of course, would only compliment someone like McCain, who already has FP experience.

[lauren<3s music]

During a time of global conflict, any governor candidate would need a strong FP-experienced VP...this is an area that the Democrats have an advantage (Richardson, Gen. Clark, Sen. Biden) and something that the Republicans currently lack. If you remember, Gov. Reagan had Bush Sr. and Gov. GW Bush had Cheney. The only reason Clinton got away with Gore is because the FP direction of the US was a bit feel-good and a bit disarrayed after our big enemy (USSR) fell in 1989.

But of course, who expected GW Bush to pull Cheney out of nowhere? I'm sure they'll come up with someone again. But so far the only name I've heard mentioned from outside of the POTUS candidate pool is Gov. Mark Sanford of SC, who, of course, would only compliment someone like McCain, who already has FP experience.

what do you do in dc?

[bossman calling]

haha...nothing too important yet.

[lauren<3s music]

i mean do you work in policy or econ or elections...

i'm intrigued since you mention reading the economist.

[boykosaurus]

is it being covered by a particular network?

[lauren<3s music]

abc just flashed and said no hard results but they thought it would go

huckabee and romney
clinton and obama close with edwards trailing

[boykosaurus]

mhm, shoot

[rikfrommf]

its on cspan

[mattybobviously]

The C-Span coverage is brilliant, some of the ridiculous people out there in that room leave me shaking my head.

[mattybobviously]

Also I had never realized just how disorganized these things are.

[senatorlamb]

very close so far. should be interesting.

[rikfrommf]

Looks like Hucks got Iowa so far (according to CNN). They also have it Edwards 33% Clinton Obama 32% Richardson 2%

[lauren<3s music]

i cant even watch it until tomorrow when its finalized...the back and forth drives me nuts

[senatorlamb]

http://www.iowacaucusresults.com/

this site is pretty good with very up to speed updates.

[lauren<3s music]

ABC breaking newsss

[lauren<3s music]

ew ew ew huckabee. gross

[senatorlamb]

Huckabee Winsssssssssssssssssss!

[rikfrommf]

wow, Obama is killing on the CSPAN one.

[lauren<3s music]

theyre calling huckabee first romney second

obama then clinton and edwards with a "disappointing" third

[rikfrommf]

Senator Barack Obama : 33.48%
Senator John Edwards : 31.97%
Senator Hillary Clinton : 31.76%
Governor Bill Richardson : 1.73%
Senator Joe Biden : 0.96%
Senator Chris Dodd : 0.06%
Uncommitted : 0.04%
Precincts Reporting: 750 of 1781

[senatorlamb]

I like Huckabee personally but wouldn't vote for him. Glad he beat that asshole Romney though.

[rikfrommf]

I like Huckabee personally but wouldn't vote for him. Glad he beat that asshole Romney though.

I just can't find a decent republican candidate. :-\

[lauren<3s music]

I just can't find a decent republican candidate. :-\

there arent any. come to the dark side

[rikfrommf]

I'm a registered Dem. from Illinois. Obama is winning :-)

I don't like Hillary, and I don't vote party lines.
(I support both the republican US reps from my districts)

[senatorlamb]

I just can't find a decent republican candidate. :-\

If you're GOP, then I would say McCain is your best bet.

[rikfrommf]

If you're GOP, then I would say McCain is your best bet.

I really did like the moderate McCain of a few years back, but now he just isn't the same.

[rikfrommf]

Senator Barack Obama : 34.69%
Senator John Edwards : 31.52%
Senator Hillary Clinton : 31.00%
Governor Bill Richardson : 1.69%
Senator Joe Biden : 1.03%
Senator Chris Dodd : 0.04%
Uncommitted : 0.03%
Precincts Reporting: 1057 of 1781

[mattybobviously]

Bring on Huckabee, can't wait to see him fall to pieces.

[senatorlamb]

Bring on Huckabee, can't wait to see him fall to pieces.

He's an evangelical who also cares about the working class and poor. A Republican populist. That's threatening. However, he won't play well in the moderate suburbs.

[rikfrommf]

Hilary is catching up to Edwards :-( I really want to see an Obama/Edwards ticket. Am I alone in that?

[bossman calling]

Enjoy it, Huckabee...this is the last thing you win.

[rikfrommf]

McCain still beat Rudy in Iowa it seems.

[rikfrommf]

Whose gonna start the NH thread?

[senatorlamb]

Obama Wins!

[lauren<3s music]

holy shit if its going to be huckabee v. obama that's gonna be gooooooood

[lauren<3s music]

Enjoy it, Huckabee...this is the last thing you win.

see we can agree.

[rikfrommf]

holy shit if its going to be huckabee v. obama that's gonna be gooooooood

I thought you hated Huckabee? and I didn't think you supported Obama... Am I wrong ?

[lauren<3s music]

I thought you hated Huckabee? and I didn't think you supported Obama... Am I wrong ?

i do hate huckabee.

i'm not settled in who i want but i like obama.

i'm excited bc if thats who it comes down to obama will stomp all over huckabee

[alkaline!flower]

just got back from caucusing for obama. It's looking really good for him. he was second choice for most non-viable groups.

[chris1152]

i do hate huckabee.

i'm not settled in who i want but i like obama.

i'm excited bc if thats who it comes down to obama will stomp all over huckabee

I doth agree.

[aminorthreat55]

According to TNR, both Kucinich and maybe Richardson suggested to their reps that if declared non-viable, they should push as many voters as possible to Obama in the second round.

[rikfrommf]

i do hate huckabee.

i'm not settled in who i want but i like obama.

i'm excited bc if thats who it comes down to obama will stomp all over huckabee

I gotcha. Obama is a good man, and a smart man. I like those qualities. (I live in Springfield, I was at his announcement. It was amazing and something to tell the Grandkids about) I saw both Bush and Gore here as well and Obama is so far out of their league it seemed.

[lauren<3s music]

http://i1.tinypic.com/8fvtcux.jpg

whaaaaaaaaackjob

[lauren<3s music]

I gotcha. Obama is a good man, and a smart man. I like those qualities. (I live in Springfield, I was at his announcement. It was amazing and something to tell the Grandkids about) I saw both Bush and Gore here as well and Obama is so far out of their league it seemed.

ive had the pleasure of meeting him twice. he is definitely an amazing man

[rikfrommf]

According to TNR, both Kucinich and maybe Richardson suggested to their reps that if declared non-viable, they should push as many voters as possible to Obama in the second round.

Richardson and Obama were very similar in that they ran as "change" candidates. I heard about that earlier as well and it makes sense. I like Obama, I like Edwards, and I liked Bill Clinton, but I just can't get behind Hilary.

[chris1152]

http://i1.tinypic.com/8fvtcux.jpg

whaaaaaaaaackjob

I LOLed.. at the dog and the pic in general.

[rikfrommf]

ive had the pleasure of meeting him twice. he is definitely an amazing man

my bff dated the mayors daughter, and as a senator Obama and our mayor were friends, at least he ate with them a number of times in their home and the stories I've heard are amazing. I have loved Obama since he was an Illinois Senator, he doesn't take crap, he doesn't give it, and he also wont put you down. its refreshing

[aminorthreat55]

Richardson and Obama were very similar in that they ran as "change" candidates. I heard about that earlier as well and it makes sense. I like Obama, I like Edwards, and I liked Bill Clinton, but I just can't get behind Hilary.
Noam Scheiber:
I had a hard time following his logic, but what he basically told me it was in Richardson's strategic interest for Obama to win if Richardson couldn't, because (I think) this would prevent Hillary from winning Iowa and running the table, which would at least let Richardson fight on to New Hampshire.

I also think its partially about what you said, as well as the fact that Richardson is dying to make VP and he would work great on a ticket with Obama.

[rikfrommf]

Noam Scheiber:


I also think its partially about what you said, as well as the fact that Richardson is dying to make VP and he would work great on a ticket with Obama.

Richardson wouldn't be bad, but like I said earlier I really want to see Edwards. My second choice is Senator Dick Durbin from IL. He always is predicted to be a vp candidate (Bush, Gore, Clinton all had him listed as a possibility). He is also a great man and a great senator. Illinois I think has the Best senators right now.

[chris1152]

I wish I could meet Barack Obama X-)

[rikfrommf]

I wish I could meet Barack Obama X-)

is that sarcasm? I dont understand the face at the end.

[chris1152]

is that sarcasm? I dont understand the face at the end.

Not sarcasm.

I lived in Iowa up til my first year in high school, which is sort of where the face comes in. I admire Obama and recently (after a few weeks of deliberation and research on candidates from both sides) have decided to support him.

[lauren<3s music]

I LOLed.. at the dog and the pic in general.

yeah its not good

[chris1152]

I'm surprised Giuliani has done so poorly tonight, I seriously thought he would be popular among many in Iowa.. or at least moreso than near last among candidates.

[lauren<3s music]

my bff dated the mayors daughter, and as a senator Obama and our mayor were friends, at least he ate with them a number of times in their home and the stories I've heard are amazing. I have loved Obama since he was an Illinois Senator, he doesn't take crap, he doesn't give it, and he also wont put you down. its refreshing

nice the two times ive met him i remember feeling like wow when he shakes your hand you feel like you're the only person in the world

[rikfrommf]

nice the two times ive met him i remember feeling like wow when he shakes your hand you feel like you're the only person in the world

yeah there is something inspirational about him, even if you don't know a thing about him. He just feels right. He has more republican support than I have ever seen.

[lightcollapse]

obama ftw.

[chris1152]

yeah there is something inspirational about him, even if you don't know a thing about him. He just feels right. He has more republican support than I have ever seen.

exactly.

[lauren<3s music]

yeah there is something inspirational about him, even if you don't know a thing about him. He just feels right. He has more republican support than I have ever seen.

its funny, i've met a lot of politicians so far and he's always stuck with me. i saw him right after he spoke at the dnc convention and i was just stunned. his staff is always so impressive as well

[captainhampton]

I'm surprised Giuliani has done so poorly tonight, I seriously thought he would be popular among many in Iowa.. or at least moreso than near last among candidates.

he did zero campaigning in Iowa and is putting his focus on some of the larger states. still, can't be a good sign to see his numbers as low as they are tonight. we'll see how his strategy pays off.

[rikfrommf]

Iowa's done, I'm moving to the NH thread haha.

[lauren<3s music]

Iowa's done, I'm moving to the NH thread haha.

nice link.

[1check_1love]

I'm a conservative who's for obama. I just don't like the GOP forerunners; the only GOP i like is Paul. McCain isn't that bad either. However, I intern for the Obama campaign. I must say, I'm glad he won Iowa. Now off to do NH calls!

[thetrueblood]

i'd say huckabee and obama.


FTW

[lauren<3s music]

NH thread

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=8343988&posted=1#post8343988

[Justin_stacy]

there arent any. come to the dark side

Bullshit. If you want change for the good there's Paul, and if you enjoy the same old same old there's McCain. Besides the only Dem of value just droped out. So Darth back off!

[senatorlamb]

It's funny. In my now defunct blog I predicted in January of 07 that Obama and McCain would win their respective nominations with Huckabee making a big impact. Let's see if I'm right. Either way I'm so happy Obama won the caucus. I felt he was going to win but in the past week got skeptical about the youth vote hype. Well, shame on me for being so skeptical.

[Siren Silently]

I'm a conservative who's for obama. I just don't like the GOP forerunners; the only GOP i like is Paul. McCain isn't that bad either. However, I intern for the Obama campaign. I must say, I'm glad he won Iowa. Now off to do NH calls!

Nobody cares for what you have to say.

[1check_1love]

Nobody cares for what you have to say.
shut up vince. go back to your teenage sex thread.

[saysmydoctor]

shut up vince. go back to your teenage sex thread.
:rotfl:

Post of the year!

[Siren Silently]

shut up vince. go back to your teenage sex thread.

Aww, I'm sorry my teenage sex thread has more relevance than you will ever have.

[rikfrommf]

Aww, I'm sorry my teenage sex thread has more relevance than you will ever have.

nice try, but you were kinda owned already...

[Justin_stacy]

nice try, but you were kinda owned already...

:-p

[Siren Silently]

You guys suck :-(