Shaq

[thedondeluge]

I like how some news networks refer to the Suns as Shaquille O'neal and the Phoenix Suns. Steve Nash is way better, now days anyways and Shaq hasn't even been on the team for more than a week has he?

[iihungrieii]

did you know there is an nba thread?

[thedondeluge]

yeah, but i didn't feel like going there.

[bjam12]

To answer your question: yes, 19 days.

[livethesounds]

if you're going to make a thread for something that belongs in the NBA thread, at least make your topic a little more worth while to talk about.

Shaq just came to the team, i'm pretty sure nobody is saying right now that shaq is better than Nash. Thats just how networks market games, so you can see him in his new digs

[truthbetoldxx]

Shaq is way over-rated in my opinion.

[oface0315]

That was the worst trade the suns could have possibly made. Now the fastest team in the league has to wait for the slowest guy in the league to make it up the court with them and barely score 80 points. Im a heat fan, so Shawn Marion is the best thing to happen to the heat in 2 years, and when we draft Michael Beasley in the offseason we'll be making our way back up the eastern conference ladder(not that its difficult)

[Scott Weber]

Shaq just came to the team, i'm pretty sure nobody is saying right now that shaq is better than Nash. Thats just how networks market games, so you can see him in his new digs
You're right. Let's please not turn this into a trade debate because we have no idea how it's going to turn out and we've already debated it to death, so if you want to talk about it more, go to that thread or go to the NBA thread.

[Scott Weber]

That was the worst trade the suns could have possibly made. Now the fastest team in the league has to wait for the slowest guy in the league to make it up the court with them and barely score 80 points. Im a heat fan, so Shawn Marion is the best thing to happen to the heat in 2 years, and when we draft Michael Beasley in the offseason we'll be making our way back up the eastern conference ladder(not that its difficult)
Too bad Marion might walk at the end of the year, part of the reason the Suns dealt him is because they didn't think he'd return because he was unhappy.

That is all.

[SgtSmegma]

That was the worst trade the suns could have possibly made. Now the fastest team in the league has to wait for the slowest guy in the league to make it up the court with them and barely score 80 points. Im a heat fan, so Shawn Marion is the best thing to happen to the heat in 2 years, and when we draft Michael Beasley in the offseason we'll be making our way back up the eastern conference ladder(not that its difficult)

At least the first part is true, not so sure about the part about the Heat rising to Eastern Conference supremacy though.

[Spicoli hey bud]

Shaq is way over-rated in my opinion.
Sure, if you want to call the most dominant center of the last 20 years, overrated...
That was the worst trade the suns could have possibly made. Now the fastest team in the league has to wait for the slowest guy in the league to make it up the court with them and barely score 80 points. Im a heat fan, so Shawn Marion is the best thing to happen to the heat in 2 years, and when we draft Michael Beasley in the offseason we'll be making our way back up the eastern conference ladder(not that its difficult)
Have fun when Marion opts out of his contract, and the Heat lose the lottery.

[Blamo]

Too bad Marion might walk at the end of the year, part of the reason the Suns dealt him is because they didn't think he'd return because he was unhappy.

That is all.



Yeah. That would be HORRIBLE for the heat. Because then they'd have all that extra cap room to go out and sign Emeka Okafor or Eltron Brand! THE HORROR!


The thing is, Marion wouldn't opt out either way. Too much money is on the table for him to. Besides, the whole reason he was unhappy in Phoenix is that he didn't like not being a "star" of the team, even if it was a great team. And, well, now it is. I think if the Suns thought that Marion had any chance of walking next year, they would have hung onto him and picked up Emeka or Brand (or anybody, really) with that money in Free Agency. The problem is that he probably wasn't going to walk, and him and Amare combined to be such a cancer in that locker room that it was really starting to bear down on Steve Nash... and with that balky back of his, everybody knows the window for a championship was already relatively small to begin with. Of course, they just shrank the window considerably with the trade... but if it works out, then Steve Kerr is a genius.

Have fun when Marion opts out of his contract, and the Heat lose the lottery.



Why do you guys see Marion opting out in a loaded FA pool as a bad thing? And even if the Heat "lose" the lottery, they're going to have the worst record in the NBA... So worst case they'll have the fourth pick in a fairly deep draft.


Either way, Wade/Wright/Marion (or whoever they get if he opts out)/Haslem isn't a bad nucleus to build around. Especially with the heat having a TON of cap room, with Marion potentially opting out and the Ricky Davis contract expiring (that IS this year, right?) with a top 4 pick, to boot.

[Scott Weber]

Uh, I think people see Marion leaving as a bad thing because he's an outstanding proven player who's an excellent defender. Even if that frees up cap space, they're losing a star to sign a star (maybe, not a sure thing). There's no question the Heat won't be terrible for long...but they might not be good either. And there's always a chance they get screwed in the draft (even if it is deep, there's always at least one of the top 4 picks who never pans out the way he should)

[iihungrieii]

Yeah. That would be HORRIBLE for the heat. Because then they'd have all that extra cap room to go out and sign Emeka Okafor or Eltron Brand! THE HORROR!


The thing is, Marion wouldn't opt out either way. Too much money is on the table for him to. Besides, the whole reason he was unhappy in Phoenix is that he didn't like not being a "star" of the team, even if it was a great team. And, well, now it is. I think if the Suns thought that Marion had any chance of walking next year, they would have hung onto him and picked up Emeka or Brand (or anybody, really) with that money in Free Agency. The problem is that he probably wasn't going to walk, and him and Amare combined to be such a cancer in that locker room that it was really starting to bear down on Steve Nash... and with that balky back of his, everybody knows the window for a championship was already relatively small to begin with. Of course, they just shrank the window considerably with the trade... but if it works out, then Steve Kerr is a genius.





Why do you guys see Marion opting out in a loaded FA pool as a bad thing? And even if the Heat "lose" the lottery, they're going to have the worst record in the NBA... So worst case they'll have the fourth pick in a fairly deep draft.


Either way, Wade/Wright/Marion (or whoever they get if he opts out)/Haslem isn't a bad nucleus to build around. Especially with the heat having a TON of cap room, with Marion potentially opting out and the Ricky Davis contract expiring (that IS this year, right?) with a top 4 pick, to boot.

is that all?

[Blamo]

Uh, I think people see Marion leaving as a bad thing because he's an outstanding proven player who's an excellent defender. Even if that frees up cap space, they're losing a star to sign a star (maybe, not a sure thing). There's no question the Heat won't be terrible for long...but they might not be good either. And there's always a chance they get screwed in the draft (even if it is deep, there's always at least one of the top 4 picks who never pans out the way he should)



But the Heat are playing at the 4, also, right? If so, I think they're wasting Marion. Marion is obviously best suited at the 3, and just because he can play the 4 doesn't mean he should. Either way, it's not as if there'll be a big drop off no matter who the Heat signs if Marion leaves (which I think is very unlikely). Ron Artest, Emeka Okafor, Luol Deng (who I think is massively overrated, but could be a good second fiddle to Wade), and Eltron Brand (who signed an offer sheet with the Heat before, if you recall) all would be suitable replacements. And, to be honest, I think Elton Brand would be a clear upgrade. Elton Brand is a top 5 PF in the league, and is the kind of guy you can build a team around.


Wade, Brand, Haslem, Wright and Rose/Jordon/Lopez/Bayless would be a good, young nucleus that would be able to compete right away. The best part is, whoever they'd draft would only be expected to come in and shoulder a moderate load, giving them time to come and settle in.


Really, I would be fairly surprised if the Heat miss the playoffs again next year. What they need to do is stop playing Jason Williams and Ricky Davis (why play the expiring contracts you aren't going to resign?) and see what they have on that roster, as they have with Wright (who was thriving before he got his teeth knocked out last night), and shut down Wade so he can properly recover.



Really, I just don't like Marion for this team. He doesn't make Wade's life easy enough. Brand would be able to provide many of the same things that Shaq did for him.

[Blamo]

is that all?


Apparently not.

[Scott Weber]

But the Heat are playing at the 4, also, right? If so, I think they're wasting Marion. Marion is obviously best suited at the 3, and just because he can play the 4 doesn't mean he should. Either way, it's not as if there'll be a big drop off no matter who the Heat signs if Marion leaves (which I think is very unlikely). Ron Artest, Emeka Okafor, Luol Deng (who I think is massively overrated, but could be a good second fiddle to Wade), and Eltron Brand (who signed an offer sheet with the Heat before, if you recall) all would be suitable replacements. And, to be honest, I think Elton Brand would be a clear upgrade. Elton Brand is a top 5 PF in the league, and is the kind of guy you can build a team around.


Wade, Brand, Haslem, Wright and Rose/Jordon/Lopez/Bayless would be a good, young nucleus that would be able to compete right away. The best part is, whoever they'd draft would only be expected to come in and shoulder a moderate load, giving them time to come and settle in.


Really, I would be fairly surprised if the Heat miss the playoffs again next year. What they need to do is stop playing Jason Williams and Ricky Davis (why play the expiring contracts you aren't going to resign?) and see what they have on that roster, as they have with Wright (who was thriving before he got his teeth knocked out last night), and shut down Wade so he can properly recover.



Really, I just don't like Marion for this team. He doesn't make Wade's life easy enough. Brand would be able to provide many of the same things that Shaq did for him.
Eh, sort of. Marion has shifted with Haslem's injury but will primarily play the 3 in Miami, as Blount starts at C and now that Haslem is back, he'll start at the 4 again...moving Marion back to 3 and Wright back to the bench. So that analysis is pointless, really, since I don't see him ever starting there in a normal situation.

And again, I'm really not so sure a total star will come to Miami. Sure, they'll have the space for it, sure, they'll be contenders, but nothing is guaranteed in free agency. Okafor is a nice player but has really dropped off this year, and Brand's history with Miami is longgggg gone. So you can't just assume that a) Miami will make the playoffs again because they'll get Brand/another big name and b) Marion will stick around, you just can't. You can speculate, but you certainly can't assume.

And I wouldn't be surprised if anybody makes the playoffs in the East next year, it's not hard.

[Blamo]

Eh, sort of. Marion has shifted with Haslem's injury but will primarily play the 3 in Miami, as Blount starts at C and now that Haslem is back, he'll start at the 4 again...moving Marion back to 3 and Wright back to the bench. So that analysis is pointless, really, since I don't see him ever starting there in a normal situation.

And again, I'm really not so sure a total star will come to Miami. Sure, they'll have the space for it, sure, they'll be contenders, but nothing is guaranteed in free agency. Okafor is a nice player but has really dropped off this year, and Brand's history with Miami is longgggg gone. So you can't just assume that a) Miami will make the playoffs again because they'll get Brand/another big name and b) Marion will stick around, you just can't. You can speculate, but you certainly can't assume.

And I wouldn't be surprised if anybody makes the playoffs in the East next year, it's not hard.



Ohh, was that why he was playing the 4? I thought they were going to play small and fast and move Blount to the bench and Haslem at the 5. So that's not as bad. It's too bad that they're going to move Wright back to the bench, though, since he's been playing really well as of late.


And I don't see why a total star wouldn't come to Miami? It's not like it's a small market with shitty weather or anything. As far as I know, Miami has the best city of all of those who are going to have a lot of money this summer, and they have the benefits of being out east (meaning making a playoff run is that much easier), and with a legit star in Wade are probably closer than any other team to contending again.

As far as Okafor goes, everybody on that Charlotte roster has taken a few steps back. This was supposedly a playoff team... They still show those flashes, but they've severely underachieved. I think Pat Riley will be able to get a lot more out of him. And, I"m not guaranteeing that Brand ends up in Miami... but do you really see Brand in anything other than a Clipper or a Heat jersey next year? I don't. I don't think he'll move to a significantly smaller market, I don't see him signing for anything less than a max, and I don't see him moving to another team that's a perennial loser. The big reason for him staying on the Clippers is that if he finishes out his contract, he'll be able to command 35% of the cap as the max instead of 30%.

Really, I'm going to be completely shocked if the Heat don't end have Brand/Marion/Okafor/Artest on the roster, and assuming everybody is healthy and their draft pick isn't a complete bust... I see them winning 40-45 win team and a top six team out east. Which, again, isn't a huge accomplishment or something... but it is a far cry from the 15 win season Miami is headed towards now.

[Scott Weber]

Ohh, was that why he was playing the 4? I thought they were going to play small and fast and move Blount to the bench and Haslem at the 5. So that's not as bad. It's too bad that they're going to move Wright back to the bench, though, since he's been playing really well as of late.


And I don't see why a total star wouldn't come to Miami? It's not like it's a small market with shitty weather or anything. As far as I know, Miami has the best city of all of those who are going to have a lot of money this summer, and they have the benefits of being out east (meaning making a playoff run is that much easier), and with a legit star in Wade are probably closer than any other team to contending again.

As far as Okafor goes, everybody on that Charlotte roster has taken a few steps back. This was supposedly a playoff team... They still show those flashes, but they've severely underachieved. I think Pat Riley will be able to get a lot more out of him. And, I"m not guaranteeing that Brand ends up in Miami... but do you really see Brand in anything other than a Clipper or a Heat jersey next year? I don't. I don't think he'll move to a significantly smaller market, I don't see him signing for anything less than a max, and I don't see him moving to another team that's a perennial loser. The big reason for him staying on the Clippers is that if he finishes out his contract, he'll be able to command 35% of the cap as the max instead of 30%.

Really, I'm going to be completely shocked if the Heat don't end have Brand/Marion/Okafor/Artest on the roster, and assuming everybody is healthy and their draft pick isn't a complete bust... I see them winning 40-45 win team and a top six team out east. Which, again, isn't a huge accomplishment or something... but it is a far cry from the 15 win season Miami is headed towards now.
Miami's great, but it's ridiculous for you to just assume that Brand IS coming to Miami, you know? That's all I'm saying. I actually do think Miami will land a big name FA (I don't know if it'll be Brand, might be Artest). There's other teams out there that will contend and offer a max contract for Brand. Haha, I just don't think the pieces are going to fall exactly how you've planned them to in your head.

[Blamo]

Miami's great, but it's ridiculous for you to just assume that Brand IS coming to Miami, you know? That's all I'm saying. I actually do think Miami will land a big name FA (I don't know if it'll be Brand, might be Artest). There's other teams out there that will contend and offer a max contract for Brand. Haha, I just don't think the pieces are going to fall exactly how you've planned them to in your head.



Oh, well Brand is just the best case scenario for the Heat. I see them targeting one of four of five guys (specifically, the people I mentioned in my last few posts) and getting one of them. The Brand thing is so iffy because nobody knows how he's going to come back from this injury, anyways. If he struggles to come back and share the backcourt with Kaman right away, it's all moot because there's no way he'd turn down 14 million (or whatever the exact number is) and take a chance with reduced value.


Either way, the whole point of my little tirade is that even if Marion opts out, it's not that bad for Miami. It could even be argued that it will make the Heat better. It's not like last year where if you're going to sign someone, you're going to pay double value for Rashard Lewis.

[Scott Weber]

Yes, that Rashard Lewis contract was ridiculous.

[oface0315]

I like how everyones talking about the heat signing power forwards when we have haslem, when what we really need is an andre miller type(who is a free agent).

[Blamo]

Yeah... This year he's basically a worse hedo, but is making twice the money. Yikes. In the last year of his contract I think he's making something insane like 25 million. I like Rashard and all, but that has the potential to go down as one of the worst contracts in NBA history...

[Blamo]

I like how everyones talking about the heat signing power forwards when we have haslem, when what we really need is an andre miller type(who is a free agent).


Except for that part where Andre Miller isn't a free agent.