View Full Version : DDT 2.28.08 - How big can soccer become in the US?
CubbyNick42
02/28/08, 12:15 AM
Is there room for a fifth (sixth if NASCAR's included) major sport? Will we see a US World Cup win in our lifetimes? Will the lack of commercial break opportunities preclude the growth of the game here? What would it take to make the US a world power?
I'd like to see the game grow here. Last summer's World Cup was one of the most enthralling sporting events I've ever seen. At the same time, I know pitifully little about the game.
Discuss.
No soccer won't get big here. All the talent is over in Europe and that success and quality of players will never get popular here. We have a shitty professional league who produces a few good players for our national team. Our national team is a decent program but its nothing like the France, Germany, Brazil, Italy, Argentina, even England (although they failed to qualify for euro 2008). We will never reach that caliber of a team so I say no we will never see a US World Cup win. World Cup is my favorite sporting event, above Olympics and March Madness. Its sports at its finest.
preppyak
02/28/08, 12:26 AM
I think that you mention NASCAR is important...because its a sport that so few people can get into as drivers, yet so many people watch. For whatever reason that is, I think it partly succeeds because it is not like basketball or football...the goal is not so clearly defined.
The problem with soccer is that, as the nickname implies, its a "beautiful game", its slower, more rhythmic, and really not that physical as a whole. For a nation that has so fully embraced the physicality of the NFL, and would rather be bored by the facets of baseball, I don't see soccer growing back to that level.
The MLS will continue to grow...but to pretend that it isn't on an AFL level (which gets more TV airtime btw) and believe that it can reasonably grow to a level like the NBA (where you can find it nightly) is just not gonna happen. If soccer was going to blow up, the time was when the World Cup was in the US...and all the "blowing up" resulted in a league that has take 10 years to even be really relevant at all.
I highly doubt it will surpass the NBA, MLB, NFL, or NHL before I suffer my midlife crisis (aka, the next 20 years).
Edit: And to add to the point above me...the best players in the US (Donovan, Adu), all realized the US sucked and left for Europe, and only after failing there, came back to the US. The best talent we have will leave for Europe where they can be a star in a sport that matters
We have a few successful players over there. Dempsey, McBride and Bocanegra have played for a good amount in England right now. Our goalies have always been good with guys like Friedel and Keller and now Howard and Hannamon. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Beasley come back soon.
preppyak
02/28/08, 12:41 AM
yeah...I was thinking of Freidel and Howard when I said that...but as a whole our field players haven't matched up. And those who have shown they can play, well, they have zero reason to come back to tiny salaries and minimal TV coverage...even with the absurd contract Beckham got, it shows it further...become a star in Europe, then pack it in and make the cash in the MLS...it becomes a Beer League almost
and while this is maybe only partially relevant...things that were niche sports like MMA are taking off now too, so the MLS has an even bigger hill to climb when stuff like this happens:
Thursday will be an historic day for mixed martial arts, when CBS and Elite XC announce a deal that will bring the sport to network television for the first time.
When people love football and boxing, how does soccer compete with guys beating the hell out of each other?
preppyak
02/28/08, 12:46 AM
But I wish it would grow more...because I wouldn't need Fox Soccer Channel or the likes to watch the European matches if everyone wanted more soccer on ESPN
I love champions league on ESPN. I watch every game.
looksthatkillbn
02/28/08, 12:58 AM
I love champions league on ESPN. I watch every game.
as do i. exciting as hell.
williek311
02/28/08, 07:06 AM
I love soccer almost more than any other sport but I know that it will never become big here. And I love Jim Rome for the most part but I hate how he thinks soccer is the worst sport ever. I always try to watch all the UEFA matches on ESPN2 and sometimes I go to the local pub in Richmond and watch matches on the weekends.
tambo41187
02/28/08, 07:10 AM
The best part of being in England is the exposure i have to the sport now. I wish it would get bigger in the states, but like most people have stated i dont see it happening.
williek311
02/28/08, 07:22 AM
The best part of being in England is the exposure i have to the sport now. I wish it would get bigger in the states, but like most people have stated i dont see it happening.
That's why I love soccer so much, because I grew up in Europe and grew up playing the sport and watching it all the time.
we are cured
02/28/08, 07:32 AM
you'd think it would, considering how big a youth sports movement it has had over the past 20 years. in my opinion, a lot of it has to do with the fact that the mls isn't the top league in the world (as someone already mentioned), and that telecasts of european league games are scarce (although increasingly more prevalent).
thatsignant
02/28/08, 07:32 AM
It really comes down to how much talent we can get to come play over here, if we had a guy like Ronaldinho is his prime come here, I think it would spark some interest amongst casual fans.
LeftWideOpen
02/28/08, 07:42 AM
problem with the ronaldhino argument is that we had Pele over here, albeit not in his prime, and it really didnt do much but spark interest in the short-term.
i think it would take continual success of the U.S on an international level to get people to give it more than a fair chance here. but even in a best case scenario, i dont think it would ever rival the NFL, MLB or NBA.
williek311
02/28/08, 07:44 AM
It really comes down to how much talent we can get to come play over here, if we had a guy like Ronaldinho is his prime come here, I think it would spark some interest amongst casual fans.
Yeah they tried that in the 70's when Pele came over here to play soccer and although it was popular it died out rather quickly. And all the hype over David Beckham sparked some interest but by the start of next season no one will care.
thatsignant
02/28/08, 08:32 AM
Yea that is true, it would definitely take more than 1 international star to come over. I think if the US had our best athletes play soccer instead of football, baseball, etc. than I think soccer would gain popularity, but that will never happen. If it did the US team would be Garnett in goal, and we'd have Randy Moss heading in balls sent in by Brady instead of catching TD passes from him.
mat1419
02/28/08, 08:36 AM
it's getting big as we speak. the MLS is growing healthily and philly's expansion team had 2,500 season tickets reserved before they were even given a team (which happens today at 2pm!). the bars are packed for EPL games and when the Euro teams come over it's a mega-sellout each time. Hell, even our national team is gaining some level of credibility and exposure. Their game against Mexico had as many people watching as the Duke/Carolina game a few weeks ago and the bar I went to.
Since 94, we've come miles in the soccer game. It's not going to match England's passion anytime soon and might not measure up as a league in the US anytime soon...but the sport has a ton of following and won't go away around here anytime soon either.
CubbyNick42
02/28/08, 08:50 AM
Yea that is true, it would definitely take more than 1 international star to come over. I think if the US had our best athletes play soccer instead of football, baseball, etc. than I think soccer would gain popularity, but that will never happen. If it did the US team would be Garnett in goal, and we'd have Randy Moss heading in balls sent in by Brady instead of catching TD passes from him.
This brings up a good point. If our best athletes had played soccer their whole lives instead of basketball or football (or track or baseball in a few cases), we'd be the best. Top three or four, minimum.
It really comes down to how much talent we can get to come play over here, if we had a guy like Ronaldinho is his prime come here, I think it would spark some interest amongst casual fans.
The thing is that guys like Ronaldinho would never think about coming to play here while theyre in their prime. It wouldn't be any fun, theyre used to being surrounded by some of the best players in the world not some 22 year old kid that just got drafted out of Virginia.
weezer182
02/28/08, 09:20 AM
It can become in a big sport in time I believe. It's going to take a while and a lot of money to get people interested. Will it ever be as big as the NBA, MLB or NFL? No, but it definitely can be popular. It is all about exposure.
avengedtbs
02/28/08, 09:56 AM
Soccer reached it's peak already in the United States with the Cosmos in NYC.
Although I really wish it would get big here.
dhammer
02/28/08, 09:57 AM
it's getting big as we speak. the MLS is growing healthily and philly's expansion team had 2,500 season tickets reserved before they were even given a team (which happens today at 2pm!).
Seattle already has over 10,000 season ticket deposits (at $50/each) for our yet unamed team that doesn't start until 2009. The MLS is definitely doing it the right way, slowly growing a dedicated fanbase, getting coverage on major networks (especially in HD, thanks ESPN2 Thursday game of the week), and expanding into new markets.
After all, soccer is the number one youth sport in America. Why can't it keep growing in popularity? It helps tremendously that more and more people are getting access to international coverage (Fox Soccer Channel, ESPN2, etc) and the US National Team is developing some great young talent.
thatsignant
02/28/08, 10:20 AM
I don't know if it is like this already but I think each MLS team should get at least 1 US national team player, that way every team has at least 1 player they can use as "the face of the team" for marketing purposes.
screamoutmyname
02/28/08, 10:26 AM
i wish America would would stop being so close-minded about the sport of soccer...
it's the most popular sport around the world, except in the USA and there are many people in the USA who are pushing for its growth...
i just don't see it happening, however... to many people are stubborn and set in their ways.
The MLS needs to carry on the way it's going, slowly develop it's teams and infrastructure, bringing over retiring superstars from Europe will damage the game in the long run... the best way to attract ardent fans is to develop the game the right way, produce good young American talent for the national team.
America focuses on it's youth athletics/sports programmes a lot more than your typical European country imo.
The only limit I can see for the US is location; Europe is so close-knit that we can have tournaments like the UEFA Cup, Champions League, Cup Winners Cup etc with the top European clubs involved sparking world wide interest. The US isn't in a position to do something like that.
Also, CONCACAF isn't really worth watching, USA and Mexico's international tournament qualifiers are a joke, whereas Europe has the benefit of having worldwide interest even for it's qualifying games, let alone the tournament proper.
I don't think Football (soccer) will ever reach the level of NFL or NBA etc... the best it can hope for is to be a viable alternative.
soccer doesn't be bigger than nfl, nba, mlb or even at the same level to be "big". even having exposure/money such as the nhl, golf, nascar, etc. enjoys would make MLS one the best leagues in the world. the national team and domestic league have grown enormously in just a short while. a lifetime is a long time, and it'll only get better. so, how big will it get? big enough that we won't have to have conversations like this, anyway.
The only limit I can see for the US is location; Europe is so close-knit that we can have tournaments like the UEFA Cup, Champions League, Cup Winners Cup etc with the top European clubs involved sparking world wide interest. The US isn't in a position to do something like that.
Also, CONCACAF isn't really worth watching, USA and Mexico's international tournament qualifiers are a joke, whereas Europe has the benefit of having worldwide interest even for it's qualifying games, let alone the tournament proper.
I don't think Football (soccer) will ever reach the level of NFL or NBA etc... the best it can hope for is to be a viable alternative.
the problem with concacaf is the corrupt leader, jack warner, and the poor countries. the only rich countries are really mexico, canada, and the u.s. it's hard to have something compare to europe, the richest, densest place in the world, when you have countries with at most a few million people and an average salary of $4000
i wish America would would stop being so close-minded about the sport of soccer...
it's the most popular sport around the world, except in the USA and there are many people in the USA who are pushing for its growth...
i just don't see it happening, however... to many people are stubborn and set in their ways.
the nfl used to be way behind mlb and horse racing.
the nba used to be a joke with a handful of teams playing in front of 10,000 people, if that.
the nhl is still struggling to become as important to americans as the other 3 big leagues are.
everything takes time.
The thing is that guys like Ronaldinho would never think about coming to play here while theyre in their prime. It wouldn't be any fun, theyre used to being surrounded by some of the best players in the world not some 22 year old kid that just got drafted out of Virginia.
it doesn't need to be ronaldinho, though. a talented, upcoming, young south american star playing in MLS would be a great thing. think if messi hadn't gone to barcelona right away, but played in MLS for 2 seasons at 17. the talent pool is so large that you don't need to have a guy like ronaldinho to be entertaining, otherwise why would anyone that's not from spain, england, or italy go to their domestic league?
screamoutmyname
02/28/08, 10:49 AM
the nfl used to be way behind mlb and horse racing.
the nba used to be a joke with a handful of teams playing in front of 10,000 people, if that.
the nhl is still struggling to become as important to americans as the other 3 big leagues are.
everything takes time.
yeah, i see your point... but i don't know... i don't ever see soccer becoming huge in the USA... even after David Beckham came to America, something like half of the people interviewed still didn't know who he was.
CubbyNick42
02/28/08, 11:08 AM
The MLS needs to carry on the way it's going, slowly develop it's teams and infrastructure, bringing over retiring superstars from Europe will damage the game in the long run... the best way to attract ardent fans is to develop the game the right way, produce good young American talent for the national team.
Great point.
it doesn't need to be ronaldinho, though. a talented, upcoming, young south american star playing in MLS would be a great thing. think if messi hadn't gone to barcelona right away, but played in MLS for 2 seasons at 17. the talent pool is so large that you don't need to have a guy like ronaldinho to be entertaining, otherwise why would anyone that's not from spain, england, or italy go to their domestic league?
the thing is that why would messi ever want to come play here for 2 years before leaving for Barca. He wouldn't develop himself to as high of a potential as he could as if he went to Barca as a 17 year old. 2 years developing at Barca pwns 2 years developing in the MLS.
Scott Weber
02/28/08, 11:39 AM
First of all, Nascar is not a sport.
Second of all, I just really don't think Americans have the patience to accept soccer. If you talk to the average american sports fan, it's stunning what they think of Soccer.
Soccer is too slow and not high scoring enough for most Americans. I played it all the way til I got to college and think it is a beautiful game but too bad most Americans disagree with me. I am happy with just watching European soccer. They're so much more passionate about soccer than we are about our major sports MLB, NFL, NBA.
CubbyNick42
02/28/08, 11:57 AM
Since this is the only soccer thread I'll ever be in, I'll throw it out there...
I'd smash Marta.
ya about that id rather cut my dick off before id hit that
http://english.people.com.cn/200612/19/images/xin_4421203190922453188862.jpg
the thing is that why would messi ever want to come play here for 2 years before leaving for Barca. He wouldn't develop himself to as high of a potential as he could as if he went to Barca as a 17 year old. 2 years developing at Barca pwns 2 years developing in the MLS.
i think i phrased my point the wrong way. it doesn't have to be a prodigy like messi, but a decent, young, upcoming, exciting player. why would someone like that want to come to the u.s.? they'd get paid on time, wouldn't have their family taken hostage for money, wouldn't be abused at the stadium, or after the game if they messed up, and live in relative obscurity.
First of all, Nascar is not a sport.
Second of all, I just really don't think Americans have the patience to accept soccer. If you talk to the average american sports fan, it's stunning what they think of Soccer.
that's changing though. younger people are more interested in soccer now than ever before. hell, when i was at UDel, more kids wore soccer jerseys than flyers jerseys.
the point is, i don't think soccer truly needs joe blow to become successful. the u.s. is big enough that even as a niche sport it would be extremely successful.
Scott Weber
02/28/08, 12:35 PM
the point is, i don't think soccer truly needs joe blow to become successful. the u.s. is big enough that even as a niche sport it would be extremely successful.
Depends on what your definition of successful is.
i think i phrased my point the wrong way. it doesn't have to be a prodigy like messi, but a decent, young, upcoming, exciting player. why would someone like that want to come to the u.s.? they'd get paid on time, wouldn't have their family taken hostage for money, wouldn't be abused at the stadium, or after the game if they messed up, and live in relative obscurity.
i completely disagree id rather go develop as a player in europe and become the best player i can for both my club team and my national team. im not gonna develop nearly enough playing in the us as a teen as i am in europe. id rather risk taking verbal abuse and risk living in relative obscurity and have a chance at winning a champions league title or a scoring title in the premeirship than play in a league that gets little to no television exposure. the way i can make an analogy of this is. European Basketball Leagues is to the NBA as the MLS is to European Soccer Leagues.
Killadelphia
02/28/08, 01:02 PM
The problem with soccer in North America is not only is the sport competing for tv air time, but the sport is competing for athletes. Yes, soccer is the #1 youth sport, but it is also the easiest of all youth sports to truly learn and be somewhat successful at and it also starts at a younger age. I know most basketball leagues did not start until around 2nd or 3rd grade and the same goes for real baseball. Mighty-might football started around 2nd or 3rd grade as well. Public image also plays a key part in it, and I'd like to see the European games get possibly a Saturday ABC time slot or something once or twice a month -- or whatever network is not currently showing a sport. Children need to see what their experience could be like.
Also, the sport of soccer is one of the most physically demanding sports and lets face it, we live in a country of obese people, so children start leaning toward, baseball, football, and even basketball.
Soccer can definitely grow, but it'll never surpass the already pre-established leagues. Stadiums are not big enough, so there revenue will never be as much.
Also, when looking at Europe most of the National leagues involve teams all within driving distance of each other. In the MLS, you see teams from all over the place. The proper thing for it to have done would have been to begin in relatively one region of the country and then start expanding west or east similar to how all the other sport leagues did. There is no real geographical rivalries, which is very, very important overseas.
Now a lot of teams will have new stadiums in the coming years, so maybe that will grab some fans, but the lack of real geographical rivalries I think is one of the biggest problems.
The MLS will make a profit at some point, but currently only 2-5 teams work in the black and the league is already in $350 million or so in debt.
i completely disagree id rather go develop as a player in europe and become the best player i can for both my club team and my national team. im not gonna develop nearly enough playing in the us as a teen as i am in europe. id rather risk taking verbal abuse and risk living in relative obscurity and have a chance at winning a champions league title or a scoring title in the premeirship than play in a league that gets little to no television exposure. the way i can make an analogy of this is. European Basketball Leagues is to the NBA as the MLS is to European Soccer Leagues.
except, not every player coming out of south america is messi or ronaldinho. the vast majority of them go on to play for regular, middle table teams and aren't playing at the highest possible level. many of them don't have a regular starting place in the team, either. the very best south american players go to the big clubs in europe, and the rest of them stay in their country or go to the mexican league.
the thing with the euroleague and the nba, and as well as with the european hockey leagues and the nhl, is that they have room to grow, and so does mls. i dislike hearing the word "never" so much. a lot can change in 50 years, you never know. unlikely, at this point in time? of course. but never is too strong, i think.
The problem with soccer in North America is not only is the sport competing for tv air time, but the sport is competing for athletes. Yes, soccer is the #1 youth sport, but it is also the easiest of all youth sports to truly learn and be somewhat successful at and it also starts at a younger age. I know most basketball leagues did not start until around 2nd or 3rd grade and the same goes for real baseball. Mighty-might football started around 2nd or 3rd grade as well. Public image also plays a key part in it, and I'd like to see the European games get possibly a Saturday ABC time slot or something once or twice a month -- or whatever network is not currently showing a sport. Children need to see what their experience could be like.
Also, the sport of soccer is one of the most physically demanding sports and lets face it, we live in a country of obese people, so children start leaning toward, baseball, football, and even basketball.
Soccer can definitely grow, but it'll never surpass the already pre-established leagues. Stadiums are not big enough, so there revenue will never be as much.
Also, when looking at Europe most of the National leagues involve teams all within driving distance of each other. In the MLS, you see teams from all over the place. The proper thing for it to have done would have been to begin in relatively one region of the country and then start expanding west or east similar to how all the other sport leagues did. There is no real geographical rivalries, which is very, very important overseas.
Now a lot of teams will have new stadiums in the coming years, so maybe that will grab some fans, but the lack of real geographical rivalries I think is one of the biggest problems.
The MLS will make a profit at some point, but currently only 2-5 teams work in the black and the league is already in $350 million or so in debt.
participating is high, but kids went to other sports because...there was no professional league, or atleast not with any money. as the league grows and becomes wealthier, this becomes more viable for kids growing up to want to aspire to.
i'm not sure what you meant by how teams are close by in europe but not in the u.s. that's how geography works. but there are still some very fierce rivalries in the league, despite it being young. there are 2 teams in los angeles, plus a team in san jose who has a big rivalry with l.a. dc united and the new york team have a rivalry, and the new philly team will only add to this.
it had to start somewhere, right? it's way behind but catching up. i think people are maybe expecting too much all at once, and when that doesn't happen they're quick to jump to the conclusion that it'll fail, it's shit, etc. meh.
Depends on what your definition of successful is.
successful as in competing globally for players, prestige, respect, sponsorship dollars, stadiums full, player development. the only sports leagues in the world that can compete with u.s. sports are other u.s. sports, but even if soccer became 1/4th as big as the nfl/mlb/nba/nhl, it'd be one of the premier leagues in the world. that's success to me.
Since this is the only soccer thread I'll ever be in, I'll throw it out there...
I'd smash Marta.
marta? seriously?
CubbyNick42
02/28/08, 01:17 PM
marta? seriously?
In a heartbeat.
nfggc10
02/28/08, 01:41 PM
participating is high, but kids went to other sports because...there was no professional league, or atleast not with any money. as the league grows and becomes wealthier, this becomes more viable for kids growing up to want to aspire to.
I disagree completely with that. At the age that these kids are making decisions about what sport is more fun for them, the amount of money they could make turning professional 10-15 years down the road isn't high on their list of reasons to play or not. Soccer is a sport that most kids play so early that by the time they get to 8 or 9 years old they're ready to move on and try something else.
Broken Parachute
02/28/08, 01:54 PM
I love soccer and I played for a couple of years. I'd love to watch games from Europe and I do whenever they are on TV. They don't show enough of them though.
In a heartbeat.
http://english.people.com.cn/200612/19/images/xin_4421203190922453188862.jpg
errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
thatsignant
02/28/08, 02:18 PM
I love soccer and I played for a couple of years. I'd love to watch games from Europe and I do whenever they are on TV. They don't show enough of them though.
Do you get FSN? If so, games are on pretty much all day Sat & Sun, I am addicted to it. If you have Cablevision than you should have FSN.
http://dontcostnothing.files.wordpress.com /2007/10/heathermitts3.jpg
id smash heather mitts
StuGrimson
02/28/08, 02:19 PM
Soccer is very popular around here, mainly because I think half the population of Yugoslavia lives here. And not the good half.
I disagree completely with that. At the age that these kids are making decisions about what sport is more fun for them, the amount of money they could make turning professional 10-15 years down the road isn't high on their list of reasons to play or not. Soccer is a sport that most kids play so early that by the time they get to 8 or 9 years old they're ready to move on and try something else.
i don't think so. it might not be on their mind, but young basketball fans turn on the tv and see all the glitz and glamor that's in the nba, and when they're older they see how they're living the high life and they want that too. i don't think most kids move on by the time they're 8 or 9. maybe between 13-16 or so, though. but i still think that that's slowly changing as well.
Soccer is very popular around here, mainly because I think half the population of Yugoslavia lives here. And not the good half.
it's a good thing yugoslavia's not a country anymore then, eh?
http://dontcostnothing.files.wordpress.com /2007/10/heathermitts3.jpg
id smash heather mitts
i haven't heard this term before "smash". i say i'd "wreck that chick" all the time, but i've never heard smash. it works though, i suppose.
StuGrimson
02/28/08, 02:25 PM
it's a good thing yugoslavia's not a country anymore then, eh?
Ya they are all Kosovo refugees, Croatians and Serbians I should say.
nfggc10
02/28/08, 03:00 PM
i don't think so. it might not be on their mind, but young basketball fans turn on the tv and see all the glitz and glamor that's in the nba, and when they're older they see how they're living the high life and they want that too. i don't think most kids move on by the time they're 8 or 9. maybe between 13-16 or so, though. but i still think that that's slowly changing as well.Depends on what age though. I mean kids before age 12 or 13 are looking at how good players are rather than the lifestyle they lead. And by the time kids reach 14-16 they've already decided what sport they're going to pursue. At that point if you've grown up playing soccer much more than any other sport and are at a level that the pros can be an option are they really going to give up just because the potential for money isn't as good and move onto another sport with a higher ceiling? I guess my point is that I don't think the age at which kids are deciding which of their sports they want to focus on is one where money is the basis for decision making. Now, this is concerning the average young athlete who going into high school isn't some two sport phenom or something along those lines.
well, it definitely helps if being a professional in that sport is a viable option. 15 years ago, if you said your job was a professional soccer player, it'd be shocking. you know what i mean?
Killadelphia
02/28/08, 04:41 PM
Philadelphia had nice support today for their announcement.
Their current colors are similar to the horrid Eagles jerseys however.
goodarmcindy
02/28/08, 05:01 PM
The problem with the MLS is that players over here see it as their money making oppotunity once they become fringe players in their Premiership teams or whatever. You only have to be mildly successful in England to get a nice salary in the MLS once you hit 30. The pace of the games are slower, you play fewer games, and the climate is ,in general, better.
The MLS can produce some good players but they often haven't cut it in Europe, notable exceptions being Hahneman, Friedel, Dempsey, Bocanegra, McBride. The MLS league needs to get better and that can only happen through improving youth talent. It is pointless to recruit scores of has-beens (or never-was') and stifle youth for the sake of a bit of short-lived exposure.
US soccer has 2 major things going for it though, money and a large population. Put money into youth programmes and training facilities and, in such a large population, it is inevitable that the US could become a major player on the world soccer scene/
Note: I hate calling it soccer.
weezer182
02/28/08, 05:46 PM
The problem with the MLS is that players over here see it as their money making oppotunity once they become fringe players in their Premiership teams or whatever. You only have to be mildly successful in England to get a nice salary in the MLS once you hit 30. The pace of the games are slower, you play fewer games, and the climate is ,in general, better.
The MLS can produce some good players but they often haven't cut it in Europe, notable exceptions being Hahneman, Friedel, Dempsey, Bocanegra, McBride. The MLS league needs to get better and that can only happen through improving youth talent. It is pointless to recruit scores of has-beens (or never-was') and stifle youth for the sake of a bit of short-lived exposure.
US soccer has 2 major things going for it though, money and a large population. Put money into youth programmes and training facilities and, in such a large population, it is inevitable that the US could become a major player on the world soccer scene/
Note: I hate calling it soccer.I agree that having good youth programs will help improve the quality of the league. I think it has to be a mix. Good youth will increase the quality of play but it most likely won't increase the popularity of the league in the US. You can have a lot of young talent but without big name players what is going to draw people to the sport? Bringing in some big name players from South America/Europe will attract more interest from non-soccer fans. The MLS doesn't want to be a retirement league at all but nor do they want to be a feeder league into Europe. That is why at the moment I think its good to have both youth talent and big name stars. Eventually if the league really becomes successful and gains more fans, we will see an bigger increase in youth talent. At the moment I think it is doing a good job at both going after big names and developing youth talent.
CubbyNick42
02/28/08, 06:35 PM
http://english.people.com.cn/200612/19/images/xin_4421203190922453188862.jpg
errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Haha I stand by it. She doesn't always look like an MS patient.
MIKEY_HORROR
02/28/08, 06:45 PM
I cant see it getting top 5 .. I have it at like 9/10 currently....but it could move up a spot or two..maybe three.. if marketed right, and the talent is there.
I think it goes
Baseball
Football
Nascar
Basketball
Golf
MMA (UFC)
Tennis
Boxing
Soccer
Bowling
CubbyNick42
02/28/08, 06:53 PM
Hockey?
MIKEY_HORROR
02/28/08, 06:56 PM
Hockey?
Haha yeah, I just realized I forgot that. They go in at like number 5...so soccer gets 10th place I guess
weezer182
02/28/08, 07:00 PM
I cant see it getting top 5 .. I have it at like 9/10 currently....but it could move up a spot or two..maybe three.. if marketed right, and the talent is there.
I think it goes
Baseball
Football
Nascar
Basketball
Golf
MMA (UFC)
Tennis
Boxing
Soccer
BowlingThere are a lot of flaws in this list. There is no way a regional sport like Nascar is bigger than basketball. Football is bigger than baseball. UFC should be on the bottom with bowling. Soccer is bigger than both.
CubbyNick42
02/28/08, 07:03 PM
If you gauge popularity by advertising dollars, which isn't the worst barometer, football's #1 by a long shot. I believe NASCAR's #2, though.
I cant see it getting top 5 .. I have it at like 9/10 currently....but it could move up a spot or two..maybe three.. if marketed right, and the talent is there.
I think it goes
Baseball
Football
Nascar
Basketball
Golf
MMA (UFC)
Tennis
Boxing
Soccer
Bowling
i think that list is a bit off.
nfl
mlb
nba
college football
nascar
tennis
golf
nhl
college basketball
soccer
boxing
horseracing
lacrosse
etc.
If you gauge popularity by advertising dollars, which isn't the worst barometer, football's #1 by a long shot. I believe NASCAR's #2, though.
people like to slag off on nascar, but they get 100,000 people to races and rather large tv ratings.
Killadelphia
02/28/08, 07:12 PM
Nascar also has the most female fans out of all major sports.
weezer182
02/28/08, 07:13 PM
If you gauge popularity by advertising dollars, which isn't the worst barometer, football's #1 by a long shot. I believe NASCAR's #2, though.Advertising dollars is a dumb way to gauge popularity. It is pretty obvious that nascar makes a lot of money on advertising. It needs to incorporate factors such as attendance, television ratings, television exposure, sales ect.. while also looking at regional differences. Nascar may have high tv ratings and attendance in the South but I have a hard time believing nascar is popular in other regions of the country. If you base popularity on advertising dollars then I guess nascar is bigger than baseball.
Killadelphia
02/28/08, 07:18 PM
Actually, it is. It has fans all over the country.
weezer182
02/28/08, 07:35 PM
Actually, it is. It has fans all over the country.Yea but is their fan base equally distributed around the country, such as sports like basketball or baseball? A sport like nascar, if you even consider it a sport, has a handful of big races in a year. lt isn't that surprising these can draw people to them. Any sport like boxing or golf can do the same because one event is meaningful. Whereas basketball and baseball play so many games within a season.
Maybe I just don't see it but out west there aren't too many nascar fans. Plus sports like basketball, baseball and football get more national coverage on tv and in the papers, which may be an indication of popularity. I'm not saying nascar isn't popular, I'm saying it isn't as popular as football, baseball and basketball.
Killadelphia
02/28/08, 07:48 PM
Yea but is their fan base equally distributed around the country, such as sports like basketball or baseball? A sport like nascar, if you even consider it a sport, has a handful of big races in a year. lt isn't that surprising these can draw people to them. Any sport like boxing or golf can do the same because one event is meaningful. Whereas basketball and baseball play so many games within a season.
Maybe I just don't see it but out west there aren't too many nascar fans. Plus sports like basketball, baseball and football get more national coverage on tv and in the papers, which may be an indication of popularity. I'm not saying nascar isn't popular, I'm saying it isn't as popular as football, baseball and basketball.
NBA basketball is not that equally distributed. I'd say as much of the north that doesn't follow NASCAR, the general south does not follow the NBA.
Baseball is America's past time and has been a part of this country since the late 1800s. Just about everyone knows how to at least have a catch. There are more casual fans of the game of baseball. Going to a ball game can be relatively cheap for families and is usually a good atmosphere.
I know there is Nascar in Delaware and PA and they definitely sell out. Car racing does well in the mid-west too. Honestly, the places it doesn't do that well is probably the north, northeast and the northwest. There are tracks in California, Vegas, and etc.
Nascar is 2nd in tv ratings and has about 75 million fans and does $3 billion in annual merchandise.
But in the end, I don't know why we're comparing it because outside of just the human element, soccer is not really competing with these guys for athletes.
Also, like I said earlier 42% of their fans are women. Highest out of any sport.
looksthatkillbn
02/28/08, 08:51 PM
races take place, among others obviously, in las vegas, phoenix, dover, pocono (pennsylvania), brooklyn (michigan), sonoma (california), fontana (california) (this is actually a suburb of los angeles), loudon (new hampshire), joliet (illinois), indianapolis, kansas city (kansas), and miami. pretty much the only places they really exclude are the plains and the northwest.
fire on my lips
02/28/08, 10:30 PM
I think soccer will eventually be one of the biggest sports in the Unites States assuming the population continues to shift. The US Census predicts that a quarter of all Americans will be Hispanic or Latin American by 2050. I don't expect soccer to be a "Big Four" sport in the United States in my lifetime, but in a hundred years who knows.
Chris289
02/29/08, 08:55 AM
races take place, among others obviously, in las vegas, phoenix, dover, pocono (pennsylvania), brooklyn (michigan), sonoma (california), fontana (california) (this is actually a suburb of los angeles), loudon (new hampshire), joliet (illinois), indianapolis, kansas city (kansas), and miami. pretty much the only places they really exclude are the plains and the northwest.
Exactly. Most of those tracks have at least 75,000 seats that easily sell out. Indianapolis I believe has about 300,000 seats and that race is always a sell out. Actually the trend in recent years have shown a decline in attendance for the more traditional southeastern tracks such as Charlotte and Atlanta. In the last 12 years low attendance has knocked Darlington, SC down to 1 race per year and North Carolina has gone from 6 races a year at 3 tracks to 2 races a year at 1 track. Tracks are also being proposed in places such as NYC (Meadowlands), Seattle area and Denver. With the growth of the tracks mentioned above and the loss of races in the southeast, it's regional status is almost non existant these days.
But on topic, I played soccer when I was younger and fully enjoyed it. I wish it would grow in popularity to the point where it is covered more on sports programs. All you need is a little more exposure and the American people might embrace it. But that's up to corporate America.
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