DDT 3.3.08: In which major sport is the coaching staff most important?

[FondestMemory]

in what sport does it matter most who is hired as your head coach/manager? what sport does the coaching staff actually effect the outcome of games the most?

[LeftWideOpen]

manager/head coach? baseball. if we're talking entire staffs .. i'd say its close between football and baseball.

But I think the combination of handling a pitching staff, playing matchups and knowing when to rest guys and when to push them over a course of a 162 game season is the most difficult job in sports.

[FondestMemory]

i say football. a great head coach knows how to hire great coaches around him. i look at football as being more of an entire staff effort than any other sport.

it's a constant chess match. every play, every snap, every series. it's a constant series of trying to outguess your opponent and making more in game adjustments.

i'm not saying football is the only sport where that's true, i just think it's more vital.

[Scott Weber]

I think it's way, way, way more important in football. Baseball is ridiculously easier than football and basketball in my opinion.

Everything you mentioned in baseball is even more so in football, except every game means so much more. You have to play the matchups, handle an entire coaching staff, know when to rest guys and rotate players in and out, a ridiculous amount of situational offensive and defensive sets, how hard to push your players in practice, etc.

I find baseball very simple compared to other sports. not saying it's easy, but I think it's much more simple.

[preppyak]

right...but also, I think there are many aspects to football that are equally as important as the coach (personnel decisions, talent, etc). A great NFL coach can get maybe 1-2 more wins out of his team, but if they are a sub .500 team, they aren't making the playoffs. I think a baseball manager can get a lot more out of the season in terms of wins for his team, and the difference between making the right moves and wrong moves, approaching players the wrong way, etc, can be 20 games over the season really.

Really, just look at what good coaches have done with poor teams in the NFL...especially in their first few years, its usually embarrassing. Talent and players make the bigger difference (and I consider those to be from Management, not the coaching staff). I think a baseball manager can come in and turn around a team in one season (Joe Girardi w/ Marlins) and take them from worst to first. I just see it as ultimately being more important...

Its strange arguing for something being more important for baseball though

[Scott Weber]

right...but also, I think there are many aspects to football that are equally as important as the coach (personnel decisions, talent, etc). A great NFL coach can get maybe 1-2 more wins out of his team, but if they are a sub .500 team, they aren't making the playoffs. I think a baseball manager can get a lot more out of the season in terms of wins for his team, and the difference between making the right moves and wrong moves, approaching players the wrong way, etc, can be 20 games over the season really.

Really, just look at what good coaches have done with poor teams in the NFL...especially in their first few years, its usually embarrassing. Talent and players make the bigger difference (and I consider those to be from Management, not the coaching staff). I think a baseball manager can come in and turn around a team in one season (Joe Girardi w/ Marlins) and take them from worst to first. I just see it as ultimately being more important...

Its strange arguing for something being more important for baseball though
I really disagree with that. Let me finish up this project and I'll respond in more detail.

[nfggc10]

right...but also, I think there are many aspects to football that are equally as important as the coach (personnel decisions, talent, etc). A great NFL coach can get maybe 1-2 more wins out of his team, but if they are a sub .500 team, they aren't making the playoffs. I think a baseball manager can get a lot more out of the season in terms of wins for his team, and the difference between making the right moves and wrong moves, approaching players the wrong way, etc, can be 20 games over the season really.

Really, just look at what good coaches have done with poor teams in the NFL...especially in their first few years, its usually embarrassing. Talent and players make the bigger difference (and I consider those to be from Management, not the coaching staff). I think a baseball manager can come in and turn around a team in one season (Joe Girardi w/ Marlins) and take them from worst to first. I just see it as ultimately being more important...

Its strange arguing for something being more important for baseball thoughThose numbers turn out to be the same when comparing them relative to the number of games in the two sports.

[LeftWideOpen]

i made the distinction between a single manager/head coach and staff for a reason .. i think the entire football coaching staff is probably the most important. It's a big roster and coordinators + position coaches are very important. an important task for a football coach is delegating responsibility and that is where the staff comes in.

but when it comes down to the single manager/head coach, i think a baseball manager is more important because of his involvement with each and every decision and player on a daily basis. the impact a manager has on an actual game as its occuring is substantially more, i think.

the issue of coaches who call their own plays on one side of the ball versus coaches who don't is an entirely separate discussion.

[Scott Weber]

Yes, but you can't just look at the actual game itself, there's so much more that goes into it than 3 hours. Head coaches use motivation tactics throughout the week much more than baseball, and the delegation of responsibility and guiding your position coaches on how to teach is vital. I just don't think it's THAT hard to be a baseball manager, I'm sorry. I don't discount the importance, but I find it about 10 times tougher to manage games at a faster pace, with more implications, and players with bigger egos.

[StuGrimson]

Baseball is a lot more based on instincts then anything else, its not a skill to decide when to pull a pitcher or when to pinch hit. I had this same discussion actually with some friends on the weekend and we all figured baseball is the easiest to coach but at the same time the baseball coach has the biggest impact on the game based on his decisions, whether right or wrong.

[rcrook]

I say football. You have to have a solid group of coordinators for both offense and defense. special teams and receivers coaches too. also you have to have a staff that is willing to sit down and watch games tapes everyday of the week. i agree that a baseball manager is the most important head coach of any sport but when it comes to coaching staff it has to go to football.

[screamoutmyname]

Entire staff... I'd say football.

Strictly head coach... I'd say basketball.

[micahistheballs]

I think football mainly because of all the strategy that goes into a gameplan and what not. Each game means more and you can't let one slip by.

[Killadelphia]

Football - college or pro -- their decision-making effects every single play.
NL Baseball
College Basketball
AL Baseball
NHL
NBA

[salmarnirecho]

I'd say baseball.

[Broken Parachute]

i made the distinction between a single manager/head coach and staff for a reason .. i think the entire football coaching staff is probably the most important. It's a big roster and coordinators + position coaches are very important. an important task for a football coach is delegating responsibility and that is where the staff comes in.

but when it comes down to the single manager/head coach, i think a baseball manager is more important because of his involvement with each and every decision and player on a daily basis. the impact a manager has on an actual game as its occuring is substantially more, i think.

the issue of coaches who call their own plays on one side of the ball versus coaches who don't is an entirely separate discussion.I agree with all of this.

Yes, but you can't just look at the actual game itself, there's so much more that goes into it than 3 hours. Head coaches use motivation tactics throughout the week much more than baseball, and the delegation of responsibility and guiding your position coaches on how to teach is vital. I just don't think it's THAT hard to be a baseball manager, I'm sorry. I don't discount the importance, but I find it about 10 times tougher to manage games at a faster pace, with more implications, and players with bigger egos.I agree. I think that most of us can probably manage a baseball team and win games. I think the aspect of an MLB coaching staff that's most important is the hitting/pitching coaches. While they don't have much effect during the game, on the practice field it makes a big difference. I think it's tougher to be a coaching staff for football because of how many guys you have and the style of sport it is, though.

Baseball is a lot more based on instincts then anything else, its not a skill to decide when to pull a pitcher or when to pinch hit. I had this same discussion actually with some friends on the weekend and we all figured baseball is the easiest to coach but at the same time the baseball coach has the biggest impact on the game based on his decisions, whether right or wrong.Bingo.

[bigmike]

Football, by far. Baseball Managers are overrated.

[Killadelphia]

They are and they aren't.

[Broken Parachute]

They don't contribute anything to the team's overall talent, but they get the team going when they're in the shitter through the media and in the clubhouse. I don't think the AL even needs managers at this point.

[bigmike]

At most, I don't think a manager's decisions over the course of the game net a team more then 5 wins one way or another and that's probably being generous.

[rcrook]

what decisions does a baseball manager make? how long to keep a pitcher in and the pitching coach has a lot of say in that, when to steal and bunt and when to pinch hit. not too much.

[Killadelphia]

what decisions does a baseball manager make? how long to keep a pitcher in and the pitching coach has a lot of say in that, when to steal and bunt and when to pinch hit. not too much.

Same can be said regarding a head coach in football.

The manager selects the personnel. Generally, they shift the infielders, outfielders, etc. They decide who to bring into pitch and when to make the hook. They call the offensive plays...steal, hit and run, bunt, squeeze, etc. The manager decides who to bring up when there is an injury and etc.