DDT-3/04/08-Rating the Greatest

[thatsignant]

With the retirement of Favre today, it can be argued that he is the greatest quarterback to ever play the game. The question here is, on what criteria would you use when rating the greatest quaterbacks of all time? I saw an argument that the QB rating system isn't an accurate stat because it favors west coast offenses. So what do we grade QB's on? Rings? Yardage? Touchdowns? Leadership? Supporting cast?

[Drew Beringer]

You just have to combine all of those factors. I mean, Favre has all the records and a ring, so he has to be at the top. Bradshaw has 4 rings but he was not that impressive statistically. Montana is great, he is definitely one of the top. Manning will probably eventually break all of Favre's records and Brady will probably win more rings, barring any dramatic dip in play. I would have Favre is definitely top 5 and leave it at that. It's difficult to compare these eras as well.

[we are cured]

it's really tough to say because a quarterback's numbers are often a product of his protection and the ability of wide receivers to beat coverage. i'll have more in a bit, i have to think about this.

[FondestMemory]

that's why there's never a right answer when trying to rank them. there's too many factors, and too many ways to develop a ranking.

no matter how you do it though, no matter what system you use, i don't see how favre isn't top 5 regardless.

[Chris M.]

You just have to combine all of those factors. I mean, Favre has all the records and a ring, so he has to be at the top. Bradshaw has 4 rings but he was not that impressive statistically. Montana is great, he is definitely one of the top. Manning will probably eventually break all of Favre's records and Brady will probably win more rings, barring any dramatic dip in play. I would have Favre is definitely top 5 and leave it at that. It's difficult to compare these eras as well.

Brady has already won more rings than Favre, not probably win more.

[Drew Beringer]

Brady has already won more rings than Favre, not probably win more.
I didn't mean it like that, I meant it as he will add on to his 3.

[Killadelphia]

He is not the greatest QB ever to play the game. I'd say he's top 10.

[rcrook]

Nope he isn't top 10. I'd put Warren Moon in his spot!

[Killadelphia]

Nope he isn't top 10. I'd put Warren Moon in his spot!

overall, i'd say favre is top 10.

[rcrook]

i was being sarcastic. on the front newspage of ap they posted the news and some kid said tom brady wasn't in the top 10 and he listed 10 other quarterbacks he thought were better than brady and warren moon was one of them. also some idiot said favre was the allen iverson of the nfl because if you throw it up enough it is bound to go in or get caught in favres case.

[Killadelphia]

i was being sarcastic. on the front newspage of ap they posted the news and some kid said tom brady wasn't in the top 10 and he listed 10 other quarterbacks he thought were better than brady and warren moon was one of them. also some idiot said favre was the allen iverson of the nfl because if you throw it up enough it is bound to go in or get caught in favres case.

well AI was an All-American QB.

But for that reason that is why Favre is in my top 10 and not my top 5. There is a reason why he leads in picks and tds.

[Killadelphia]

personally, if I had to label someone as the best qb, I'd choose Steve Young who is top 5 in just about every passing record.

[rcrook]

There was an ESPN poll today about who was the best quarterback. The options were Favre, Brady, Elway, Marino and Montana. Montana took home about 45 percent of the vote.

[Killadelphia]

Steve Young was better than Montana at least in terms of numbers.

[rcrook]

Do you think Young is underappreciated when it comes to the Best Quarterback talk? It's always talks of Favre, Marino, Elway, Montana, Brady.

[Killadelphia]

Yes. These are his accolades. Some season records may be different cause they do not include Brady's 2007

- Most Seasons Leading the League in Passing - 6 (Tied with Sammy Baugh)
- 4 Consecutive Seasons Leading the League - best all-time
- Highest Career passer rating - 96.8
- Led the League in passer rating - 5 times, 3rd all-time, tied with montana
- 3rd best highest comp pct in a season
- Most consecutive games with 300 yds passing, 6
- second all-time in leading the league in average gain (5)
- led the league 4 consecutive times in that category
- Led the league in tds 4 times (tied for best with unitas, dawson, and favre)
- led the league in tds 3 consecutive times (tied with favre and marino)

And these don't even discuss how well he moved in and out of the pocket.

[rcrook]

most rushing touchdowns for a qb in nfl history and he's a lawyer, thats a fun fact

[Scott Weber]

well AI was an All-American QB.

But for that reason that is why Favre is in my top 10 and not my top 5. There is a reason why he leads in picks and tds.
your sarcasm detector is beyond broken.

[S/T]

He is not the greatest QB ever to play the game. I'd say he's top 10.

Word.

[looksthatkillbn]

I weigh more heavily on rings than anything else, which is why I think Montana is the best quarterback ever. Probably Elway two. Marino. Favre. Young.

I'm excluding Brady and Manning here, who will, barring injuries, probably both be top five. If Brady continues on this pace and wins another ring or two, he'll probably be the best ever in my book.

[williek311]

I weigh more heavily on rings than anything else, which is why I think Montana is the best quarterback ever. Probably Elway two. Marino. Favre. Young.

I'm excluding Brady and Manning here, who will, barring injuries, probably both be top five. If Brady continues on this pace and wins another ring or two, he'll probably be the best ever in my book.
Terry Bradshaw won 4 superbowls tied for most ever by a QB why isn't he tied for greatest QB ever with Montana.

[Scott Weber]

Elway is NOT #2.

[Drew Beringer]

Super Bowl wins = team accomplishment, not individual accomplishment

otherwise, Dilfer > Marino

[bduke13]

The Baltimore Sun had their top 10 in the paper today. It is
1. Montana
2. Unitas
3. Brady
4. Elway
5. Favre
6. Manning (Eli of course)
7. Otto Graham
8. Marino
9. Young
10. Staubach

[Spicoli hey bud]

Baltimore Sun isn't exactly a good place to look for this type of stuff anything

[Killadelphia]

your sarcasm detector is beyond broken.

I made a side not reference regarding AI.

And I said Favre is top 10, not top 5 because of that gun-slinger mentality where he forces throws.

[Killadelphia]

Super Bowl wins = team accomplishment, not individual accomplishment

otherwise, Dilfer > Marino

Very true, but there also quarterbacks who had to make plays for their team to win, Montana/Brady, or quarterbacks who just saw their defense do everything...trent dilfer, brad johnson

[FondestMemory]

i hate when people use the gun-slinger approach as a knock on favre. yes, that caused him to throw more interceptions than anybody ever, but it's that same style that also allowed him to throw more tds and win more games than anybody ever.

if he didn't force throws, he'd have been half the qb he turned out to be. he was a high risk, high reward type guy. you take away the risk, you lose the reward.

not to mention that in the time since favre became the starting qb in green bay, the packers have won the most games in the nfl in that time. so, clearly he was doing something right.

i just don't like knocking somebody for what made them so great.

[Scott Weber]

Favre's gun-slinger mentality also allowed him to win 3 straight MVP awards, something nobody else in NFL history has done, it's a retarded argument. It's the reason for his success and his failures alike.

[Killadelphia]

i hate when people use the gun-slinger approach as a knock on favre. yes, that caused him to throw more interceptions than anybody ever, but it's that same style that also allowed him to throw more tds and win more games than anybody ever.

if he didn't force throws, he'd have been half the qb he turned out to be. he was a high risk, high reward type guy. you take away the risk, you lose the reward.

not to mention that in the time since favre became the starting qb in green bay, the packers have won the most games in the nfl in that time. so, clearly he was doing something right.

i just don't like knocking somebody for what made them so great.

It's just the reason he is not in my top 5. That's all, but he's very near it, definitely top 7, top 10.

[Scott Weber]

:dunce:

[Chris M.]

I'd like to know what six quarterbacks are better than Favre then.

The Baltimore Sun had their top 10 in the paper today. It is
1. Montana
2. Unitas
3. Brady
4. Elway
5. Favre
6. Manning (Eli of course)
7. Otto Graham
8. Marino
9. Young
10. Staubach

eli of course??? is that a joke?

[Killadelphia]

in no specific order...Montana, Young, Baugh, Marino, Unitas, Favre, Elway.

And after their careers, you may include Manning and Brady.

We're talking about overall performance, decision-making, ability, percentage of making completions. I've seen a number of "what the fuck?" passes by Brett Favre, often in the postseason as well. I don't think Favre is top 5.

[we are cured]

i hate when people use the gun-slinger approach as a knock on favre. yes, that caused him to throw more interceptions than anybody ever, but it's that same style that also allowed him to throw more tds and win more games than anybody ever.

if he didn't force throws, he'd have been half the qb he turned out to be. he was a high risk, high reward type guy. you take away the risk, you lose the reward.

not to mention that in the time since favre became the starting qb in green bay, the packers have won the most games in the nfl in that time. so, clearly he was doing something right.

i just don't like knocking somebody for what made them so great.

saying that favre isn't top 5 because of the gun slinger mentality isn't exactly a knock on him. like scott said, that mentality was a reason for his successes and failures alike and should be taken into context when discussing his place amongst the all-time greats. top 10 is still a very respectable place for favre to be.

[S/T]

The Baltimore Sun had their top 10 in the paper today. It is
1. Montana
2. Unitas
3. Brady
4. Elway
5. Favre
6. Manning (Eli of course)
7. Otto Graham
8. Marino
9. Young
10. Staubach

I grew up a Marino fan and he'll be one of my favorite athletes as long as I live.

That being said, I think his exclusion from your top 5 is beyond comprehension.

[rcrook]

thats the Baltimore Sun's rankings not his

[Scott Weber]

in no specific order...Montana, Young, Baugh, Marino, Unitas, Favre, Elway.

And after their careers, you may include Manning and Brady.

We're talking about overall performance, decision-making, ability, percentage of making completions. I've seen a number of "what the fuck?" passes by Brett Favre, often in the postseason as well. I don't think Favre is top 5.
This is such fucking retarded logic, honestly it is. Risky throws are what DEFINE him, and more times than not they paid off, his track record show that. You can turn it right around and say that any of those other guys took too many sacks or threw it away instead of making risky throws that could have been touchdowns...this is really dumb.

[S/T]

thats the Baltimore Sun's rankings not his

Ah, my mistake. I'm sure they're counting the days until Kyle Boller takes Marino's spot.

[looksthatkillbn]

Terry Bradshaw won 4 superbowls tied for most ever by a QB why isn't he tied for greatest QB ever with Montana.

all i said was that i weighed it more heavily on wins. bradshaw was carried by a good team more than any other successful quarterback by a landslide

[Killadelphia]

Favre
TD to Int Ratio is about 1.5.
Int per Attempt - 3.2%
Comp Pct - 61.4%
TD Pct - 5.0%

Marino
TD to Int 1.62
Int per Attempt - 3%
Comp Pct - 59.4%
TD Pct - 5.0%

Elway
TD to Int 1.33
Int per Attempt - 3.11%
Comp Pct - 56.9%
TD Pct - 4.1%

Young
TD to Int - 2.16
Int per Attempt - 2.5%
Comp Pct - 64.3%
TD Pct - 5.6%

Montana
TD to Int - 1.96
Int per Attempt - 2.6%
Comp Pct - 63.2
TD Pct - 5.1%

Unitas
TD to Int - 1.14
Int per Attempt - 4.9%
Comp Pct - 54.6
TD Pct - 5.6%

Baugh
TD to Int - .92
Int per Attempt - 6.8%
Comp Pct - 56.5
TD Pct - 6.2%

Graham
TD to int - 1.28
Int per attempt - 5.1%
Comp Pct. - 55.8
TD Pct - 6.6%

Staubach
TD to Int - 1.40
Int per attempt - 3.7%
Comp Pct - 57%
TD Pct - 5.2%

P. Manning
TD to Int - 2.0
Int per attempt - 2.8%
Comp Pct. - 62.2
TD Pct - 5.7%

T. Brady
TD to Int - 2.29
Int per Attempt - 2.4%
Comp Pct - 63.0
TD Pct - 5.4

Those are pretty much all the guys we or others listed. So if we're basing it off numbers, there they are.

[Flags of Dawn]

I can go out on an nfl field and throw an interception, I probably couldnt throw a touchdown pass, so the interception numbers don't seem like that big of a deal, in that perspective anyway.

[Killadelphia]

This is such fucking retarded logic, honestly it is. Risky throws are what DEFINE him, and more times than not they paid off, his track record show that. You can turn it right around and say that any of those other guys took too many sacks or threw it away instead of making risky throws that could have been touchdowns...this is really dumb.

People are allowed to have different opinions Scott.

[Scott Weber]

People are allowed to have different opinions Scott.
I'm not even disagreeing with your opinion, I'm saying that your logic is inherently wrong, if you want to have a discussion about numbers that's fine, but saying he's not top 5 because of his mentality and approach is pretty much idiotic, it's not even about opinion because that logic can be reverse-applied to anything.

[Killadelphia]

I'm not even disagreeing with your opinion, I'm saying that your logic is inherently wrong, if you want to have a discussion about numbers that's fine, but saying he's not top 5 because of his mentality and approach is pretty much idiotic, it's not even about opinion because that logic can be reverse-applied to anything.

Yes, but he's made a number of bad throws because of the mentality. That is the point. Those bad decision effect those numbers. Those bad decisions effect my opinion on whether he is top 5 or not.

[Scott Weber]

Yes, but he's made a number of bad throws because of the mentality. That is the point. Those bad decision effect those numbers. Those bad decisions effect my opinion on whether he is top 5 or not.
:wallbash:

[Flags of Dawn]

lol, wow.

[Scott Weber]

And I thought I was stubborn...

[Killadelphia]

How am I being stubborn, maybe I am wording what I am trying to say correctly. But the taking too many risks IS a knock on quarterbacks. If that is what defines him as a quarterback, it should knock him down. Throwing it away is the proper thing to do instead of throwing an interception.

yds per attempt he is 42nd all time.
yds per completion 180
passing td % 51
pass interception % 45

These numbers are all effected by his mentality.

[Scott Weber]

But NOT throwing it away is what got him a shitload of touchdowns and clutch drives. It goes both ways, and if anything his numbers prove his gutsy style helped him win more than anything else.

[Killadelphia]

But NOT throwing it away is what got him a shitload of touchdowns and clutch drives. It goes both ways, and if anything his numbers prove his gutsy style helped him win more than anything else.

I agree, but from 94'-98' not so much 99'-08'

[Scott Weber]

Alright, we're done here.

[Flags of Dawn]

yeah, his last season was pretty shitty.


....

[Killadelphia]

yeah, his last season was pretty shitty.


....

and the season prior he had 18 picks and 18 tds.

you're acting like I'm saying he sucks. I'm just saying it takes him just out of the top 5, and makes him top 10, top 8. All I'm saying is that he had an amazing 4 year stretch. One of the best ever for a QB, but that was early in his career. For 10 or so years, that mentality didn't always work, especially in the playoffs.

[Scott Weber]

And Joe Montana was fucking all-world for the Chiefs!!! Unitas sucked ASS the last like 7-8 years of his career.

[mcfly21]

the answer to this question is as simple as

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/151/1033~Detroit-Lions-Joey-Harrington-Posters.jpg

[Killadelphia]

And Joe Montana was fucking all-world for the Chiefs!!! Unitas sucked ASS the last like 7-8 years of his career.

Montana played 2 seasons with the Chiefs and only 25 games, when he was 37 and 38.

[thatsignant]

haha that is great, he is the Chuck Norris of the NFL

[thatsignant]

I was referring to the Lion Heart poster, not Montana