DDT: 3/6/08 - Dumbest Acquistions Ever? Free Agency, Trades, Etc.

[Killadelphia]

Pretty much the "What the fuck did my team just do thread?"

I'll start off with a dandy...

Phillies sign Adam Eaton for 3 years, $24 million.

[whitelines]

Any ink the knicks have used in the last 8 years

[LeftWideOpen]

Javon Walker, Oakland.

but the classic example every red sox fan will give you ... jason varitek and derek lowe for heathcliff slocumb.

also, victor zambrano for scott kazmir. another classic example.

[rcrook]

Dodgers gave Darren Dreifort at 5 year/55 million dollar contract. He only pitched in 3 of those 5 years. He finished that big contract with a 9-15 won-lost record and a 4.53 earned run average over the years of the deal, appearing in only 86 games and pitching only 205.2 innings during that period. (Calculated by the contract, that equaled $267,431.68 per inning pitched.)

[iihungrieii]

caron butler for kwame brown

[rcrook]

pau gasol for kwame brown

[thatsignant]

kazmir-zambrano has got to be the worst

[LeftWideOpen]

heres an obscure one for ya: denver signing tariq abdul-wahad to a 6 year for 43 million.

vin baker getting 6 years and 87 million from seattle

whitelines hinted at it, but allan houston getting $100 million over 6 years was also insane.

[ForlrnPerplxity]

Cubs trading Lou Brock to the Cardinals for Ernie Broglio

Cardinals trading Steve Carlton to the Phillies for Rick Wise ughhhhh

[SgtSmegma]

Jets made some atrocious signings this offseason. Calvin Pace for $43 mil? He has 14 1/2 sacks total in his 5 year career.

Also, Raiders signing Tommy Kelly (who the fuck is he?) for $50 mil.

[S/T]

Not my teams for the most part, but these came to mind...

- the Dolphins drafting Tedd Ginn in the first round
- almost every signing of Juwaun Howard
- Jerome James' contract with NY
- Dirk Kuyt
- A-Rod's NY contract - sorry, nobody on earth is worth that much money in any profession
- Marvin Williams in the top 5

[Killadelphia]

Alexei Yashon 10 years 87.5 from the Isles.

[thatsignant]

Kevin Browns $100 mil contract

[Drew Beringer]

Mostly everything Billy King ever did.

[deadstar]

Marian Hossa. Haha too early to tell.

As a Pirates fan I have a few:

Pat Meares
Kevin Young
Derek Bell
Raul Mondesi


Thanks Cam Bonifay.

[S/T]

Sam Zell and the Cubs?

[salmarnirecho]

Any ink the knicks have used in the last 8 years

Hahahaha, took the words right out of my mouth.

The Dolphins drafting of Ted Ginn was comical.
Babe Ruth to the Yankees for $800,000.
The majority of the Cubs' deals in the 90s.

[Goodbye Forever]

Bagwell/Anderson, Seaver/Four Clowns, Randy Johnson + others/Mark Langston.

[thatsignant]

We may look back on the Johan deal in a few years wondering what the Twins were thinking.

[FondestMemory]

the lions throwing the bank at scott mitchell.

[Crocodile Logic]

Cristobal Huet to the Caps for a 2nd rounder.
Nicolas Anelka to Chelsea; only because i like Anelka, and dislike Chelsea.
Vanek signed to a 7.5 million dollar contract, while letting Drury and Briere become UFAs.

[Killadelphia]

Mostly everything Billy King ever did.

Yes and No. He had some decent draft picks, but he picked too many "project" type guys. His problem was re-signing players for too much money. Samuel Dalembert, Willie Green, Kenny Thomas, Aaron McKie, etc.

Also, there was an era where Billy King gets thrown in, but it was really Larry Brown running the show and Larry Brown made some of the dumbest moves ever.

[Killadelphia]

Hahahaha, took the words right out of my mouth.

The Dolphins drafting of Ted Ginn was comical.
Babe Ruth to the Yankees for $800,000.
The majority of the Cubs' deals in the 90s.

The Ruth deal is about 9 mil in today's money.

[looksthatkillbn]

The Reds trading Frank Robinson to the Orioles for Milt Pappas, Jack Baldschun, and Dick Simpson because Robinson was "an old 30." Robinson went on to hit .316 that year, with 49 homeruns and 122 rbis, winning the triple crown, the World Series, and World Series MVP.

[Chris M.]

Portland selecting Sam Bowie over MJ with the second pick in the 1984 draft

[thatsignant]

Celtics selecting Len Bias

[sjb2k1]

In recent memory, whatever deals brought Kevin Brown and Carl Pavano to the Yankees.

[Chris M.]

- Houston and Carolina passing over Joey Harrington in the 2002 NFL Draft.
- Detroit trading Joey Harrington to Miami.
- Miami releasing Joey Harrington.
- Atlanta releasing Joey Harrington.

- The 32 teams in the NFL for now allowing Joey Harrington to be a free agent for the past day and a half.

[avengedtbs]

As a Mets fan, it has to be Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. Steve Phillips, you never trade a southpaw prospect with his stuff that can throw in the mid to upper 90s, especially for a guy who was leading the AL in walks at the time.

[Killadelphia]

Steve Phillips didn't make the trade. It was Jim Duquette.

[LeftWideOpen]

Celtics selecting Len Bias

how was that dumb?

you think the celtics brass gathered around and said "sure, len bias may die anyday of an overdose .. but lets roll the dice!"

[S/T]

That's what the Hornets are doing.

[thatsignant]

how was that dumb?

you think the celtics brass gathered around and said "sure, len bias may die anyday of an overdose .. but lets roll the dice!"

Does any team anticpate that a player will flop when they offer them a huge contract?

[FondestMemory]

flopping and oding are two different things.

[Killadelphia]

Does any team anticpate that a player will flop when they offer them a huge contract?

Players flop. But there are moves that don't make sense when they're signed.

It is one thing like Adam Eaton, where he sucked in Philly before, sucked in Texas before we signed him, but we still gave him 8 million.

And then you had Kearse who had a good track record, got a big deal, but got hurt and didn't live up to his contract. But at the time of the deal, it was not a head scratcher.

[TakingBackDowd]

steve phillips

[Killadelphia]

steve phillips

who also took them to a WS in 2000?

[thatsignant]

i suppose len bias wasn't the best example.

[StuGrimson]

The Calgary Flames drafted a guy who died in a car accident 3 months before the draft, he didnt pan out.

[Killadelphia]

The Calgary Flames drafted a guy who died in a car accident 3 months before the draft, he didnt pan out.

ugh, reminds me of Pelle Lindberg a little :(.

[StuGrimson]

Its a little different to draft a guy who is alrady dead. Thats just awkward for everyone involved.

LIndbergh decided to get drunk and drive his car into a school. At least he got to play though, I imagine Philly would have had some good teams. But you also may have not got to witness the awesomness of Ron Hextall though.

[Killadelphia]

very true.

Did Calgary draft him out of an honor something?

[StuGrimson]

No, he was European and they didnt have much of a Euro scouting staff so they just took guys who were ranked without really looking into some of them. They found out later that day that the guy was dead.

Its happend in the CFL a couple times too drafting dead American college players

[Crocodile Logic]

No, he was European and they didnt have much of a Euro scouting staff so they just took guys who were ranked without really looking into some of them. They found out later that day that the guy was dead.

Its happend in the CFL a couple times too drafting dead American college players
wow. that's pretty ridiculous.

[hockey0001]

me taking shaun alexander in fantasy football

[Goodbye Forever]

steve phillips

Duquette was so much worse. Phillips took a team to the World Series and most of the homegrown talent the Mets have now was a product of Phillips (Reyes, Wright, Heilman). He also drafted Kazmir, and letting him go wasn't his fault.

[TakingBackDowd]

who also took them to a WS in 2000?

and then left after he destroyed our farm system for a few years

[Killadelphia]

and then left after he destroyed our farm system for a few years

His FA signings were bad, not necessarily his trades and drafts.

[teddy]

me taking shaun alexander in fantasy football

hahahah, damn you. I was going to say this.

[TakingBackDowd]

His FA signings were bad, not necessarily his trades and drafts.

yeah im just biased against the guy a little bit
dislike him and the moves he made

[Smithers]

if we're talking about saying WTF right when it happens, i think it's kazmir for zambrano. but something like bagwell for larry andersen, you didn't know it was gonna suck until years later. so it depends on what you're asking here.

[Killadelphia]

I think it is hard to talk about prospects for prospects. I mean Kazmir was considered a sure thing, so that was such a dumb move, but there are some other ones, that you don't know how they'd pan out.

[micahistheballs]

That Shaq for Marion trade may start looking even dumber as we go down the road this season.

[CubbyNick42]

Any of the number of times a guy has gotten a megacontract based on one good season, i.e. Adrian Beltre, Carl Pavano, Gary Matthews, Jr., etc.

you think the celtics brass gathered around and said "sure, len bias may die anyday of an overdose .. but lets roll the dice!"
Hahaha, great mental image

[Scott Weber]

Don't throw Adrian Beltre in there. He deserves his contract in today's market. Any time you can get an outstanding, gold glove defender who can hit 25 bombs and 90-100 RBI, as well as hit around .270, that's not blowing your money. He was slightly overpaid at the time. Now, in the last 3 years of his deal, he is not, he would get that much on the open market. He certainly won't hit that many homers again, but he's still a terrific player.

[Broken Parachute]

As a Mets fan, it has to be Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. Steve Phillips, you never trade a southpaw prospect with his stuff that can throw in the mid to upper 90s, especially for a guy who was leading the AL in walks at the time.For the BILLIONTH time...JIM DUQUETTE MADE THAT TRADE.

Steve Phillips had nothing to do with it.

[Killadelphia]

For the BILLIONTH time...JIM DUQUETTE MADE THAT TRADE.

Steve Phillips had nothing to do with it.


well except he was fired so duquette was gm haha.

[StuGrimson]

The most inflated salary ever given to anybody in any sport was the 10 million the Flyers paid Chris Gratton for the 1997-1998 season. He never made more than 2 the rest of his career.

[dont you move]

magic johnson acquiring hiv

[Killadelphia]

ugh. Don't remind me.

[CstSnow]

Don't throw Adrian Beltre in there. He deserves his contract in today's market. Any time you can get an outstanding, gold glove defender who can hit 25 bombs and 90-100 RBI, as well as hit around .270, that's not blowing your money. He was slightly overpaid at the time. Now, in the last 3 years of his deal, he is not, he would get that much on the open market. He certainly won't hit that many homers again, but he's still a terrific player.

Fucking thank you im so sick of people/media ripping on beltre and his contract. The dudes a complete player, albeit one who cant hit anything low and away, but besides that is effin awesome.

now the richie sexson contract thats another story altogether.

[Broken Parachute]

I'm absolutely sick of people calling out Steve Phillips. He is nowhere near the villain most Mets fans make him out to be. He's the reason the Mets got Piazza, Leiter, Ventura, Wright, Reyes, Milledge, Kazmir, etc. During the 97-00 era, he turned that team completely around. They won 88 games, 88 games, 97 games, and 94 games in those four years. His biggest downfall was going after the veteran guys who were past their prime and that's why a ton of people hated him. If that's the case, then everyone should be mad at Omar Minaya for paying Carlos Delgado or Moises Alou or Jose Valentin. They don't though, because they are producing just as much as the aging stars of those late 90's Mets teams did. Fans just love to complain.

I'd like to think if he hadn't had such an explosive relationship with Bobby Valentine, things would have gone even better in that time period and might have lasted a little longer.

[Broken Parachute]

well except he was fired so duquette was gm haha.Haha yeah, but still not his fault. I don't adore Steve Phillips and I don't consider him to be a baseball genius by any means...but it makes me so angry that people give him soooooooooooooo much shit.

[Scott Weber]

Fucking thank you im so sick of people/media ripping on beltre and his contract. The dudes a complete player, albeit one who cant hit anything low and away, but besides that is effin awesome.

now the richie sexson contract thats another story altogether.
yeah, the sexson contract is a billion times worse.

[Killadelphia]

Haha yeah, but still not his fault. I don't adore Steve Phillips and I don't consider him to be a baseball genius by any means...but it makes me so angry that people give him soooooooooooooo much shit.

I think he's an idiot on baseball tonight.

[DaveFeelsRight]

rex grossman
darin erstad
letting go of thomas jones
over paying for ben wallace
the bulls not getting paul gasol when they had they chance
letting go of tyson chandler

[Killadelphia]

bulls fans loved ben wallace when they signed him.

[DaveFeelsRight]

i still thought they over paid for him when they signed him

[Broken Parachute]

Tyson Chandler <3

[CubbyNick42]

rex grossman
The contract he just signed? It's not that awful. What others options did they have?

[Killadelphia]

the drafting of him?

[CubbyNick42]

That's no different than the Len Bias argument.

[Broken Parachute]

Len Bias has an excuse. He's dead.

[Killadelphia]

the dumbest draft pick is easily the Raptors drafting Rafael Araujo with the 8th pick.

[Scott Weber]

Micheal Olawakandi?

[CubbyNick42]

Len Bias would not have played as badly in a Super Bowl.

[Killadelphia]

Micheal Olawakandi?

I agree he was a bust, but he was the projected 1st overall pick by just about all media markets. Can't blame the Clippers for taking him.

[aloneatlastnj]

yeah im just biased against the guy a little bit
dislike him and the moves he made

but you were at the OLDEST six years old when he was GM. lol

[TakingBackDowd]

but you were at the OLDEST six years old when he was GM. lol

i still read alot about what moves he made :)

[gonz]

Not exactly stoked on how much money we're throwing at Stallworth and Rogers as far as this Browns' offseason but, oh well, Lerner is fucking loaded. Hopefully Rogers is motivated and Stallworth stays healthy.
bulls fans loved ben wallace when they signed him.
Cavs fans love him now. Hoping it doesn't turn out the same way and the 11-man deal doesn't end up being one of the dumbest acquisitions ever down the line.

[Chris M.]

Micheal Olawakandi?

Araujo was a much much much worse pick

[SgtSmegma]

the dumbest draft pick is easily the Raptors drafting Rafael Araujo with the 8th pick.

Hahah, I don't know if that's the worst draft selection of all time, but its up there. He's a fucking joke. Anyone could fucking see that bust.

Micheal Olawakandi?

Yeah, huge bust.

[Chris M.]

That pick for Araujo just came out of nowhere too. I don't even know if he was projected to be a first round pick that year.

I strongly believe that Rob Babcock may have been one of the worst General Managers in the history of the NBA.

[kbauer]

corliss williamson for derek coleman. cap space my ass, if youre going to move big nasty get something for him more than an alcoholic beyond the twilight of his career.

[S/T]

I strongly believe that Rob Babcock may have been one of the worst General Managers in the history of the NBA.

Fact.

[SgtSmegma]

That pick for Araujo just came out of nowhere too. I don't even know if he was projected to be a first round pick that year.

I strongly believe that Rob Babcock may have been one of the worst General Managers in the history of the NBA.

I'm pretty sure that he was projected to be a first round pick. Not that high though. I recall thinking that it was a huge reach when I was watching the draft.

[Vanilla Bear]

it was more than 2 teams, but the deal that sent off Ray Allen to the Sonics and Gary Payton to the Bucks still pains me...fucking george karl

[startBBtoday]

sorry scott:

derek lowe/jason varitek for heathcliff slocumb
the richie sexson deal
the carlos silva deal
rafael soriano for horatio ramirez
freddy garcia for jeremy reed, mike morse, miguel olivo
asdrubal cabrera for eduardo perez
miguel batista signing
tino martinez and jeff nelson for russ davis and sterling hitchcock
something not many people know about: david ortiz for dave hollins
mike hampton for eric anthony
omar vizquel for felix fermin and reggie jefferson

[Killadelphia]

I'm pretty sure that he was projected to be a first round pick. Not that high though. I recall thinking that it was a huge reach when I was watching the draft.

http://preps.scout.com/2/269725.html yeah like 16-20 maybe.

We could also bring up Renaldo Balkman.

[tambo41187]

Seeing Chris Gratton's name mentioned made me smile.

How about Hašek for Stephane Beauregard and future considerations.

[we are cured]

jagr to the rangers for anson carter, and half of jagr's salary. thank you washington.

[tambo41187]

The fact that the rags are only paying Jagr what like 4 million per also allows them to sign Drury and Gomez because of the small cap hit. That was a gift that keeps giving.

[SgtSmegma]

http://preps.scout.com/2/269725.html yeah like 16-20 maybe.

We could also bring up Renaldo Balkman.

Hahahaha. I almost shit myself when the Knicks drafted him. I seriously thought it was a joke or something. Like, they would come up to the podium and be like "Nah, we're just kidding, did you really think we would take a marginally talented forward from South Carolina with little to no potential with a first round pick?"

[Scott Weber]

sorry scott:

derek lowe/jason varitek for heathcliff slocumb
the richie sexson deal
the carlos silva deal
rafael soriano for horatio ramirez
freddy garcia for jeremy reed, mike morse, miguel olivo
asdrubal cabrera for eduardo perez
miguel batista signing
tino martinez and jeff nelson for russ davis and sterling hitchcock
something not many people know about: david ortiz for dave hollins
mike hampton for eric anthony
omar vizquel for felix fermin and reggie jefferson
I agree with a lot of those, but not all. Hindsight is 20/20...

Asdrubal Cabrera was terrible in the M's farm system, and he was being blocked by a bunch of more promising prospects, we don't even know how the Silva thing will pan out (it looks bad now but we'll see, I'd say the Washburn deal was worse), the Lowe/Varitek deal will go down forever as horrible, but something a lot of people don't know is that Slocumb was pretty much the only reason the M's made the playoffs that year. Still an awful trade.

Now here's what I don't get - the Miguel Batista signing - that was a GREAT move by the Mariners, he went 16-11 last year with a 101 ERA+, and ate up almost 200 innings...for 6 million dollars, that was a steal considering what Silva fucking got this year, ugh.

People love to ream the mariners, and they have made bad deals, but they've also made some huge steals, getting Randy Johnson for Langston and Mike Campbell, getting Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps, getting Freddy Garcia and Carlos Guillen in exchange for half a season from Randy Johnson, etc. But man...how some of those players ended up hurts. Actually the Tino/Jeff Nelson one hurts the most.

[mht]

Minnesota Vikings Received:

* RB Herschel Walker
* Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1990 (54) (Mike Jones)
* San Diego's 5th round pick - 1990 (116) (Reggie Thornton)
* Dallas's 10th round pick - 1990 (249) (Pat Newman)
* Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1991 (68) (Jake Reed)

Dallas Cowboys Received:

* LB Jesse Solomon
* LB David Howard
* CB Issiac Holt
* RB Darrin Nelson (traded to San Diego after he refused to report to Dallas)
* DE Alex Stewart
* Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 (21) (Emmitt Smith)
* Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 (47) (Alexander Wright)
* Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990 (158) (traded to New Orleans, who drafted James Williams)
* Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (11) (Pat Harlow)
* Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (38) (Darryll Lewis)
* Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (40) (traded to Kansas City, who drafted Matt Blundin)
* Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (71) (traded to New England, who drafted Kevin Turner)
* Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1993 (conditional) - (13) (traded to Philadelphia Eagles, and then to the Houston Oilers, who drafted Brad Hopkins)

[Chris M.]

http://preps.scout.com/2/269725.html yeah like 16-20 maybe.

We could also bring up Renaldo Balkman.

Yeah, but Balkman went 20th overall, Araujo went 8th. They're still both awful picks though.

[SgtSmegma]

If were talking about drafts as well, you have to consider Ryan Leaf and Akili Smith. Both major busts.

What about Tim Biakabatuka? hahah

Looking at past drafts, it seems to me like more and more highly drafted players are turning out to be busts than in the past. Take the 2005 draft for example: Alex Smith (maybe), Cedric Benson (complete bust), Cadillac Williams (has been either terrible or injured since rookie season), Pacman Jones (probably will never play again), Troy Williamson (complete bust) and Mike Williams (complete bust) were all top 10 picks.

[LeftWideOpen]

I brought this up in NCAA thread the other day w/ preppyak: Marcus Fizer.

what a disaster for a #4 pick.

[thatsignant]

pretty much anybody the Lions draft in the first round

[Scott Weber]

JJ Redick? Haha. He has barely gotten a chance though.

[Killadelphia]

yeah, except for Ernie Sims, Calvin Johnson, and Roy Williams.

Oh and Barry Sanders?

[Killadelphia]

JJ Redick? Haha. He has barely gotten a chance though.

http://www.east-coast-bias.com/2008/03/jj-redick-still-beloved-in-nations.html

[mht]

The Wiz trading Rip Hamilton, Hubert Davis and Bobby Simmons for Stackhouse, Brian Cardinal and Ratko Varda

[thatsignant]

yeah, except for Ernie Sims, Calvin Johnson, and Roy Williams.

Oh and Barry Sanders?

Yea because I literally meant every first round draft pick they made since 1989

[Chris M.]

If were talking about drafts as well, you have to consider Ryan Leaf and Akili Smith. Both major busts.

What about Tim Biakabatuka? hahah

Looking at past drafts, it seems to me like more and more highly drafted players are turning out to be busts than in the past. Take the 2005 draft for example: Alex Smith (maybe), Cedric Brown (complete bust), Cadillac Williams (has been either terrible or injured since rookie season), Pacman Jones (probably will never play again), Troy Williamson (complete bust) and Mike Williams (complete bust) were all top 10 picks.

*Cedric Benson

Pacman Jones WILL play again. It might not be for the Titans and it might not be next season, but he's got too much talent for no team to want him.

I'll also defend Williamson a bit here. He's never had a good quarterback throwing him the ball, and it seems that he and Brad Childress didn't have the greatest relationship. I think he'll improve playing for Jacksonville and down the road could be an adequate number two receiver. It's too bad he's no longer on a top five team in Minnesota anymore.

[SgtSmegma]

*Cedric Benson

Pacman Jones WILL play again. It might not be for the Titans and it might not be next season, but he's got too much talent for no team to want him.

I'll also defend Williamson a bit here. He's never had a good quarterback throwing him the ball, and it seems that he and Brad Childress didn't have the greatest relationship. I think he'll improve playing for Jacksonville and down the road could be an adequate number two receiver. It's too bad he's no longer on a top five team in Minnesota anymore.

Yeah, I don't know why I wrote Cedric Brown. And regarding Troy Williamson, if he does have potential, its not going to show in Jacksonville. They don't exactly have an impressive passing game. Further, even if he becomes an adequate number two receiver, thats not what you're looking for in a number 7 overall pick.

[Chris M.]

I'm just saying that if he's goes on to put up numbers similar to a Donte Stallworth or Brandon Stokley, I wouldn't call him a bust. If Williamson makes the Jaguars out the pre-season then I could see him challenge for some playing time because Jacksonville has plenty of mediocre receivers that they all love to give playing time.

And, yes, I'm aware Stallworth and Stokley probably aren't the best examples, but I was more so referring to their 2007 seasons.

[mht]

Minnesota a top 5 team?!?! Did I just read that right....




Minnesota is a top 5 team I am curious what that makes the Jags who are clearly 10x better than Minnesota.

[Scott Weber]

hahahahahahahahahaha

this is why it is so hard for people who aren't regulars to post in the sports forum.

[Chris M.]

Minnesota a top 5 team?!?! Did I just read that right....




Minnesota is a top 5 team I am curious what that makes the Jags who are clearly 10x better than Minnesota.

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=283633

TAYF152 has not been seen since the Vikings failed to make the playoffs.

[mht]

hahahahahahahahahaha

this is why it is so hard for people who aren't regulars to post in the sports forum.


Is that to me? I could have sworn he said they were a top 5 team, I am pretty under the weather today so my reading posts with a lot of content might be off.

[mht]

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=283633

TAYF152 has not been seen since the Vikings failed to make the playoffs.



Ah got ya. I figured it was something like that. But ya never know. My fault.

[bigmike]

sorry scott:

derek lowe/jason varitek for heathcliff slocumb
the richie sexson deal
the carlos silva deal
rafael soriano for horatio ramirez
freddy garcia for jeremy reed, mike morse, miguel olivo
asdrubal cabrera for eduardo perez
miguel batista signing
tino martinez and jeff nelson for russ davis and sterling hitchcock
something not many people know about: david ortiz for dave hollins
mike hampton for eric anthony
omar vizquel for felix fermin and reggie jefferson
Toss in Carlos Guillen for Ramon Santiago ... who got cut and resigned in Detroit so it became Carlos Guillen for no one.
yeah, except for Ernie Sims, Calvin Johnson, and Roy Williams.

Oh and Barry Sanders?
And Kevin Jones, when healthy.

[Scott Weber]

Is that to me? I could have sworn he said they were a top 5 team, I am pretty under the weather today so my reading posts with a lot of content might be off.
Why are you even here? Don't think I forgot about this:

There are only two things that matter over in the sports forum:

1. Bigmike, one of the best users on this website.
2. My Golden State Thugs, any warriors talk and the basketball thread is it.

Everything else, including the users are trash. They are their own little group of users - kind of like a street gang like the blood or the crips. To be initiated into the sports forum high council gang, you need to like murder 5 minorities that cheer for the Philadelphia Eagles or Duke Basketball.... or so I heard anyway.
Dick.

[preppyak]

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=283633

TAYF152 has not been seen since the Vikings failed to make the playoffs.
haha...or maybe because Scott owned his life with this

Ignoring everything else you've said, because I just don't give a shit anymore...

I own my own freelance market research company called Manifest Marketing, I work from my house and make more money than you will any time in the next 6 years. It's basically a dream job, I set my own hours, I fuck around online whenever I want, and I am my own boss. How's that? Should I scan my business license? It's also my job that I volunteered to do to moderate this forum. Hey, at least I'm not reviewing 3 albums a week like I used to, amirite? Then I'd be a real loser! How's your senior year of high school and living at mom's house? Enjoying it? Or are you graduated and still not doing anything with your life?

Talking shit doesn't make you smarter, it makes you look like more of an irrational moron without any statistics. All you say is "I believe it so it's true," essentially. You are pathetic.

[kbauer]

Seeing Chris Gratton's name mentioned made me smile.

How about Hašek for Stephane Beauregard and future considerations.


Beauregard was fucking sweet in the IHL. Quebec Rafales forever.

[rcrook]

We are 116 posts in and nobody has said Darko Milicic. The Pistons passed up on Dwayne Wade and Carmelo Anthony to pick him.

[Killadelphia]

once again, darko was projected to go top 3.

Draft busts and dumb moves are different. Free Agents with previous track records and projected high draft picks will not pan out sometimes or just about 90% of the time in the NBA.

Carmello would have likely been the more correct and filled the immediate need -- or Chris Bosh.

[Chris M.]

Part of the reason Darko didn't succeed is because the Pistons never played him. He basically sat on the bench for 2 and a half years.

[bigmike]

We are 116 posts in and nobody has said Darko Milicic. The Pistons passed up on Dwayne Wade and Carmelo Anthony to pick him.
...And then won the NBA Title.

[Markus1186]

Any move Mike Milbury made in the 90's

[SgtSmegma]

once again, darko was projected to go top 3.

Draft busts and dumb moves are different. Free Agents with previous track records and projected high draft picks will not pan out sometimes or just about 90% of the time in the NBA.

Carmello would have likely been the more correct and filled the immediate need -- or Chris Bosh.

Imagine if the Pistons had drafted 'Melo. They would have gone 82-0.

[bigmike]

Imagine if the Pistons had drafted 'Melo. They would have gone 82-0.
Or, they wouldn't have traded for Rasheed Wallace nor play Tayshaun Prince as much as they do which provides them with matchup problems at every position except center.

[kbauer]

Thankyou Bigmike, another great point by you, this time with the Pistons. Its a moot point now. At the time the move looked bad but if the Pistons would had went in a different direction the only thing that would of happend was the Pistons getting more mainstream media attention/respect from SI and ESPN. Im becoming sick of Tay Tays inconsistancy as an all around player but in 2004 then again in 05 his defensive play was best in the NBA. Yeah we probably wouldnt had traded for Sheed which was a move that set the Pistons up for that championship run and still makes them a contender today. Also Memo Okur wouldnt had left the bench either cause Mello just would had bitched everytime he was pulled off the court and Memo was also key to that 04 team. In that same token, LB didnt want to deal with another rookie/young player and as we seen when LB coached the US team that year, they hated eachother.

Bottom line was as far as needs at the time, the Pistons had Corliss, Memo, Clifford Robinson, Tay, then swaped Robinson for Shed basically. Darko was a decent draft pick that just was a simple bust in one of the greatest, if not the greatest draft ever. In hein sight Darko sucks but hey the Pistons got a championship and I dont think they would had with Mello.

[bigmike]

I absolutely, 100% believe had Larry Brown not been the coach, Darko would have developed into a solid big man and at the least, a defensive force.

[kbauer]

I also believe had Larry Brown not been coach the Pistons wouldnt had been 3 minutes away from back to back championships. Youre probably right about Darko though. Hes been solid with Orlando and Memphis. It wouldnt hurt the Pistons for him to come off the bench if he were still with us today.

[rcrook]

Charlotte Hornets trading Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac

[SgtSmegma]

Or, they wouldn't have traded for Rasheed Wallace nor play Tayshaun Prince as much as they do which provides them with matchup problems at every position except center.

That's probably true.

I absolutely, 100% believe had Larry Brown not been the coach, Darko would have developed into a solid big man and at the least, a defensive force.

Ehh. I don't agree with that. He's had other coaches since then and hasn't really done shit.

[Killadelphia]

Charlotte Hornets trading Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac

eh...That Charlotte team needed a center. If Kobe was expected to become the star he has, he wouldn't have been the 13th pick.

That was quite the star level draft though. AI, Camby, Starbury, Allen, Abdur-Rahim (used to be), Walker, Kittles, Kobe, Nash, J. O'Neal, Stojakovic, Erica Dampier

[SgtSmegma]

eh...That Charlotte team needed a center. If Kobe was expected to become the star he has, he wouldn't have been the 13th pick.

That was quite the star level draft though. AI, Camby, Starbury, Allen, Abdur-Rahim (used to be), Walker, Kittles, Kobe, Nash, J. O'Neal, Stojakovic, Eric Dampier

Does not belong in the same breath as any of those players; I hope that was a joke.

[Killadelphia]

Does not belong in the same breath as any of those players; I hope that was a joke.

it was, hence the "erica" part.

[billyboatkid]

I wish I could be paid millions to be a wash up.

[SgtSmegma]

it was, hence the "erica" part.

Ok, cool. I thought it was just a typo. He's a fucking joke.

[kbauer]

Charlotte Hornets trading Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac


winner

/thread


hahaha. Everyone forgets about that one somehow, I did.



Ehh. I don't agree with that. He's had other coaches since then and hasn't really done shit.

For a second draft pick he hasnt done shit but have him as your first big man off the bench he'll do you some good. Hes progressing and hes eventually going to be a legit starting center in the NBA, just not yet. Well actually considering the caliber of centers and pfs in the NBA he could be considerd a legit starting big man already.

[SgtSmegma]

For a second draft pick he hasnt done shit but have him as your first big man off the bench he'll do you some good. Hes progressing and hes eventually going to be a legit starting center in the NBA, just not yet. Well actually considering the caliber of centers and pfs in the NBA he could be considerd a legit starting big man already.

I think he can be a serviceable player, and perhaps a legit starting center in the NBA. But when you see the players that the Pistons passed over to draft Milicic (Bosh, 'Melo, Wade, even Chris Kaman is better than him) they definitely made the wrong decision. I know that he was projected as a very high pick, but he just never panned out really. I think best case scenario hes like a 14 and 7 kind of guy.

[Scott Weber]

let's just remember that Darko is only 22 years old, still.

[rcrook]

Jesus it feels like he is 28

[rcrook]

Darko is one of the more dominant big men in the game!

[Spicoli hey bud]

Celtics selecting Len Bias
Yeah, what a horrible idea to draft one of the best college players ever.

[LeftWideOpen]

but they should have known he was about to die!!!

[rcrook]

eh...That Charlotte team needed a center. If Kobe was expected to become the star he has, he wouldn't have been the 13th pick.

That was quite the star level draft though. AI, Camby, Starbury, Allen, Abdur-Rahim (used to be), Walker, Kittles, Kobe, Nash, J. O'Neal, Stojakovic, Erica Dampier


ehhhh but do you still trade away the 13th pick in the draft even if you didnt expect kobe to be what he is for a center who was not even that good, the dude smoked a pack a day, Vlade that is.

[Killadelphia]

ehhhh but do you still trade away the 13th pick in the draft even if you didnt expect kobe to be what he is for a center who was not even that good, the dude smoked a pack a day, Vlade that is.

Vlade Divac is one of only four (Kareem, Olajuwon, and Garnett) players in NBA history to achieve 13,000pts, 9,000rebs, and 3,000 assists.

The Nets were going to take Kobe, but because he signed a deal with Adidas his agent told the Nets Kobe wouldn't play there because they wanted him to goto a bigger market. I assume the same thing happened with Charlotte and the Lakers - Hornets trade was in place before the pick. West told them who to pick.

[Killadelphia]

Dumbest NBA trade ever....

The Philadelphia 76ers trade Charles Barkley to the Phoenix Suns for Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry, and Andrew Lang.

[Scott Weber]

Dumbest NBA trade ever....

The Philadelphia 76ers trade Charles Barkley to the Phoenix Suns for Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry, and Andrew Lang.
uhhhhh I disagree, Sonics trade Scottie Pippen for Olden Polynice. At least Hornacek was decent. didn't he put up like 17-19 a game in those days?

[Killadelphia]

uhhhhh I disagree, Sonics trade Scottie Pippen for Olden Polynice. At least Hornacek was decent. didn't he put up like 17-19 a game in those days?

and he played only 1 and half seasons with us. They traded a player you build a franchise around because Harold Katz was a fucking jerk off.

The Sonics traded the 5th pick for the 8th pick.

[bigmike]

That's probably true.



Ehh. I don't agree with that. He's had other coaches since then and hasn't really done shit.
Well, he came to a completely new country, had to learn a new language and style/mentality of basketball and his first coach is an old school yeller with an affinity to veterans over youth players. Never mind the fact that Darko got like 8 minutes an entire season and was berated when he did anything wrong in that short time on the court.

And Scott also points out the most interesting part:
let's just remember that Darko is only 22 years old, still.
I really, really hope he becomes a defensive force/rebounder like I think he could. How valid my opinion is, though, is sketchy since I don't watch the NBA anymore.

[SgtSmegma]

Well, he came to a completely new country, had to learn a new language and style/mentality of basketball and his first coach is an old school yeller with an affinity to veterans over youth players. Never mind the fact that Darko got like 8 minutes an entire season and was berated when he did anything wrong in that short time on the court.

And Scott also points out the most interesting part:

I really, really hope he becomes a defensive force/rebounder like I think he could. How valid my opinion is, though, is sketchy since I don't watch the NBA anymore.

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't chalk him up as a loss at only 22. But this is his fourth year in the league and he's averaging like 8 pts and 7 rbs a game in 25 minutes a game. Pretty bad.

[bigmike]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't chalk him up as a loss at only 22. But this is his fourth year in the league and he's averaging like 8 pts and 7 rbs a game in 25 minutes a game. Pretty bad.
And really only his 2nd full season of getting 20+ minutes a game.

[SgtSmegma]

And really only his 2nd full season of getting 20+ minutes a game.

Yeah, like I said, I would hesitate to call him a total bust at this point. I just don't really ever see him reaching the point where we say in hindsight that Darko was worthy of being selected over Melo, DWade, Bosh, etc.

[allisterkid]

Let me bring back an old one for ya guys real fast as a Rockets fans... not sure if this one's been posted yet though.

Draft day trade:
Rockets receive
-Eddie Griffin

Nets receive
Richard Jefferson
Jason Collins
Brandon Armstrong

X-)

[rcrook]

r.i.p

[SAOSIN7years]

That Shaq for Marion trade may start looking even dumber as we go down the road this season.

Amen. Amen. And amen.

[Killadelphia]

Let me bring back an old one for ya guys real fast as a Rockets fans... not sure if this one's been posted yet though.

Draft day trade:
Rockets receive
-Eddie Griffin

Nets receive
Richard Jefferson
Jason Collins
Brandon Armstrong

X-)

true, but with a SF like Jefferson, they would have likely never traded for McGrady.

[AshesAshes]

Mostly everything Billy King ever did.

I'll take the Korver trade though.

[Killadelphia]

I'll take the Korver trade though.

that wasn't billy king...

[Killadelphia]

And Kevin Jones, when healthy.

...not anymore.

[AshesAshes]

that wasn't billy king...

Haha, ya that's true never mind Billy King just gave Korver the huge deal. Them trading him was cleaning up his mess.

[Killadelphia]

Haha, ya that's true never mind Billy King just gave Korver the huge deal. Them trading him was cleaning up his mess.

yup.

[richter915]

hello, rick dipietro for 15 seasons...come on Wang.

[awfulwaffle]

Lastings Milledge for Ryan Church?

[Broken Parachute]

Mets got a steal.

[Scott Weber]

Lastings Milledge is going to be a fantastic player, IMO.

[Killadelphia]

how did the Mets get a steal?

[Broken Parachute]

I was being sarcastic.

[zizou1790]

The penguins trading Markus Nasuland for a bunch of shitty prospects


every trade ever made by the pirates since ive been born

[awfulwaffle]

Mets got a steal.

I still can't believe they traded him within the division...

[deadstar]

The penguins trading Markus Nasuland for a bunch of shitty prospects


every trade ever made by the pirates since ive been born
It was for Stojanov straight up and it was a good deal at the time. Naslund could barely break our top 3 lines and the team was as soft as a pillow.

[Broken Parachute]

I still can't believe they traded him within the division...If they were going to trade him they should have done it when his stock was up, not when people saw that he has a lot of talent but can be incredibly lazy.

[StuGrimson]

It was for Stojanov straight up and it was a good deal at the time. Naslund could barely break our top 3 lines and the team was as soft as a pillow.

Sounds like what Markus Naslund has turned into today

[we are cured]

Lastings Milledge is going to be a fantastic player, IMO.

i agree, i also don't understand how the mets justified trading a young right-handed bat in the outfield. there had to be some big problems internally.

[ActionActionFan]

Mike Hampton's contract with the Braves is easily the worst aquisition in baseball history.