Gas Prices!

[FallingOut]

Why arent the candidates talking about this more? It seems like it should be a huge concern right now. Nobody can afford to freaking buy anything because these gas prices are so high. Hopefully my main man Obama will step up and say how we can get these prices down.

[HashHolly]

i am too surprised about this, gas is about to hit 4 dollars a gallon and G Dub is going "No Wai", i know gas prices could also be a swing vote topic, but maybe there isnt much that can be done about it?

[FallingOut]

We are consuming the oil. There is therefore less oil. Oil is therefore worth more. Oil therefore costs more.

Basic economics lesson 1.0.

You have got to be kidding me. I do not, for one second, believe that this GIANT jump in gas prices that we just had is due to us "consuming more." You could be right. But I HIGHLY doubt it. These oil companies are just taking advantage of us.

It just seems so unlikely that gas prices are $2 more than they were a few years ago, and we are consuming that much more gas.

[x togepi x]

what exactly are the candidates supposed to do? the only solution is to pump money into renewables but we're not going to see any benefits from that for years (not that it isn't a good idea).

[pinkzeppelin182]

I'm convinced that it's what is inflating our economy. My dad was in south america recently and it's like $0.85 for a gallon of diesel fuel.

[FallingOut]

I remember how shocked I was when it went up to 2.45 a gallon. Now, that seems so cheap.

Thats exactly how they want us to think!

Now, when it goes DOWN to like 3.10, we think we are getting a deal. I think this is how the oil companies are screwing us. Its mind games.

[FallingOut]

The jig is up for the seven sisters. Oil is fast running out and most of what's left is owned by crazy regimes (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Venezuela) or warzones (Iraq). America can only produce a third of what it needs oil wise from it's own resources and so it needs Oil from elsewhere. As American supplies deplete even futher they cost even more. So partly naturally supply demand economics is pushing prices up and partly they want to cash in while this train is still on the tracks.

It is not difficult to work out. As Togepi said the solution is renewable fuel, but that isn't on the cards right now for various reasons.

Ok, you are probably right. I really know nothing about this, but I always hear about how much the oil companies are making, and just observing how prices go up, it just seems suspicious. I cant stand how they will all of a sudden just jump 20 or 30 cents in one day, then they SLOOOOWWWWLLLLY go down or just sit there for weeks.

[x togepi x]

the oil companies make so much money partially because they're subsidized by the government.

[Justin_stacy]

Why arent the candidates talking about this more? It seems like it should be a huge concern right now. Nobody can afford to freaking buy anything because these gas prices are so high. Hopefully my main man Obama will step up and say how we can get these prices down.

haha what's this goof ball going to do beg OPEC to raise drilling quotas? Why would they, as of now they're making billions off of us, controling our economy and effecting our national security. What reason could Obama give to make them pump more?

Clinton fucked us when he feed into enviromental extremist and cut us off to domestic drilling, and the Republicans/Rust Belt Democratics fucked us when they refused to raise mpg. Now we are all paying the price, and when Comrade Hugo cuts us off were going to be even more fucked.

[takingbackrufio]

the oil companies make so much money partially because they're subsidized by the government.
And they own shares in the auto companies, therefore continuing the dominance of vehicles that run on their product.

[saysmydoctor]

Alaska and the national reserves = end crisis.

[AP_Punk]

Bike punx, ftw

[saysmydoctor]

]You have got to be kidding me. I do not, for one second, believe that this GIANT jump in gas prices that we just had is due to us "consuming more."[/B] You could be right. But I HIGHLY doubt it. These oil companies are just taking advantage of us.

It just seems so unlikely that gas prices are $2 more than they were a few years ago, and we are consuming that much more gas.
It's not just us, huge massive countries like China have had huge increases in oil consumption in the last decade. Stop the Amero-centrism, we've got some 350 million people to their nearly 2 billion. And we only use just a tad more gas than them.

[alteridem1]

this is true the oil companies are screwing us over, candidates aren't talking about this because they understand the concept of supply and demand, and also the government has no jurisdiction over the matter. demand will decrease as soon stupid americans stop buying gas guzzling vehicles and start using other methods of transportation, and then they will have no choice but to lower te prices, the prices will definately go down

[alteridem1]

Bike punx, ftw


ahaha YES!

[brentford]

this is true the oil companies are screwing us over, candidates aren't talking about this because they understand the concept of supply and demand, and also the government has no jurisdiction over the matter. demand will decrease as soon stupid americans stop buying gas guzzling vehicles and start using other methods of transportation, and then they will have no choice but to lower te prices, the prices will definately go down

doubtful.
yes i know how supply and demand works but it seems to me as though as more people start using more fuel efficient vehicles the oil companies will raise prices even further to make up for lost profits.
call me crazy but thats how i see things happening.

[concernedparent]

Gas prices clearly are not too high, or they wouldn't be the price they are. Simple economics. We're buyin' what they're sellin', and they're gonna keep upping the price until we stop buying.

One solution? Cut down on gas. If everyone did this, they'd have to lower their prices. However, gas is really as close to a necessity as it can get, so there is another option.

A mass boycotting of two or three different gas stations. If everyone stopped going to those gas stations, they would have to lower their prices to get people back, and once that happened, their competitors would also have to lower their prices to compete.

Not that either of these are gonna happen.

[12:46AM]

If you factor in things like inflation, gas prices have remained at the same price since the 1960s. At least this was the case a couple years ago when I sat down and figured it out.

[concernedparent]

If you factor in things like inflation, gas prices have remained at the same price since the 1960s. At least this was the case a couple years ago when I sat down and figured it out.
Are you sure about that? I have a lot of trouble believing that.

[12:46AM]

Are you sure about that? I have a lot of trouble believing that.
I wouldn't take my word for it, no. We had to do it for my first year econ course though. And I'm pretty good at remember these things. I dunno. Google it. haha

[KrisPutrid]

Listen, Gas Prices are not due ONLY to the scarcity of oil.
Economically speaking, participating in any public action, such as driving your car, you are consequently performing externalities. When you drive, you do not pay for the delay you cause on other drivers, you do not pay for the congestion, nor the damage to nature. Now, to pay for other things, the gas prices contribute not only to the cost of gas, because then there is no profit. The profit does not always get scraped into the Government's pockets, contrary to popular belief. The government gives that money straight back for the factors of production, including Land, Labor, and Capital. For your house, the government HAS to pay for it, where do you think that money comes from? To pay you, or your parents, your brother, whatever, for the work that they do, they need to get this money from taxation on industry, private business firms, and households. Gas is a good, not unlike buying a gallon of milk. The only problem is that gas is an elastic good. You can stretch the price and the demand will not decrease. Other than bitching about it, how many of you have actually stopped driving? Very little, I assume. I think the gas prices should actually even go up more, because this lack of money circulation is what's causing this so called recession to begin with. Making more money circulate will improve everything and lower gas prices, that's why they are doing this Economic Stimulis to families...to give them more money to spend and circulate. Not to mention that when there is a shortage of an item, the one way to get rid of the shortage is to raise prices so only those who absolutely need it will pay for it, and once so few people actually purchase it, there will be a surplus and the prices will slowly begin to lower, but you people need to be patient, this is not going to happen overnight.

I hope this cleared SOMETHING up.

KrisPutrid

[lauren<3s music]

Gas prices and the weak dollar are only a factor of the weakening economy. and any candidate who says they are going to lower gas prices is on crack.

[GuitarR0cker1]

We need more Alternative Fuels definatley and need to raise gas caps. I really don't think drilling for more oil in Alaska will do anything but create more problems in the future.

[KrisPutrid]

Politicians have tried it before, they completely lowered taxes on gas, and the economy in that area went absolutely terrible, there was such a shortage that prices flew overnight and the people ended up paying more than they had to previous to the tax cut on gas.

[lauren<3s music]

We are consuming the oil. There is therefore less oil. Oil is therefore worth more. Oil therefore costs more.

Basic economics lesson 1.0.

you forget, this is the U.S. most people couldn't draw you a demand curve if their life depended on it.

[KrisPutrid]

We need more Alternative Fuels definatley and need to raise gas caps. I really don't think drilling for more oil in Alaska will do anything but create more problems in the future.

Americans are also known as the prime example of being economically myopic, meaning shortsighted. We will do ANYTHING for a quick fix, but come time for a future planned choice, we manage to mess everything up. Let's hear it for having confidence in your own nation.

-KrisPutrid

[open mind]

Alaska and the national reserves = end crisis.

the oil companies that have been doing buisness in alaska have already shown that they can't handle maintaining the facilities that already exist here so it makes little sense to trust them to be enviormentally responsible enough to handle expanded drilling.

[KrisPutrid]

Which is needed...You need to understand that sometimes raises in prices are needed or else the low prices and high demand will end up with lower supply, and the ONLY way to make the supply last while demand stays constant is to raise prices. That's just how it works.

KrisPutrid

[jsteil]

Its mostly due to the fed inflating our money supply. Debasing our currency by printing too many dollars. Thats why there are countries that are no longer accepting the US dollar as currency. It's also the reason why Iran is telling OPEC to change to the Euro instead of the US dollar backed by oil.

Like Ron Paul said if you look at the price of oil backed by the US dollar it has gone up 300%, if you look at Oil backed by the Euro it has gone up 200%, if you look at oil backed by gold it has stayed flat.
So why have we let the Federal Reserve rob us of our wealth?

[jsteil]

I guess to answer the question a little bit more how can the candidates promise lower gas prices. Well for one the President gets to appoint the head of the Federal Reserve. Therefore they can replace the the head of the Federal Reserve with someone that knows what they are doing or they can introduce an alternative currency to compete with the United States dollar. The other thing a candidate can do is to stop all these entitlements that we have. We have 9 trillion dollars in debt and another 54 billion dollars in unfunded entitlements. When we don't have the money, we go to the Fed and ask for it, they give it to us, and we the American people pay the interest. Since we can not pay the interest because we have now spent money we didn't have in the first place, we have to borrow money from China and other countries that will give it to us. If we stop these entitlement programs and start paying off the national debt and also start to buy back dollars the value of the dollar will go up. The other thing we can do is get all the other countries to debase there currency too, but ultimately that won't solve anything.

We could also switch back to the gold standard.

[saysmydoctor]

That economic stimulus package is political points only and will not help the economy, it will help the credit industry.

[saysmydoctor]

Its mostly due to the fed inflating our money supply. Debasing our currency by printing too many dollars. Thats why there are countries that are no longer accepting the US dollar as currency. It's also the reason why Iran is telling OPEC to change to the Euro instead of the US dollar backed by oil.

Like Ron Paul said if you look at the price of oil backed by the US dollar it has gone up 300%, if you look at Oil backed by the Euro it has gone up 200%, if you look at oil backed by gold it has stayed flat.
So why have we let the Federal Reserve rob us of our wealth?
The only thing he had right was his borrowing money from the Chinese quantum theory of stupidity. In reality, he believes his own policy you just stated is a threat to US sovereignity just like he does everything else.

[Love As Arson]

Ascribing it simply to economics does not explain the price of gas. If it were matter of economics, then Exxon would not have the profit margins it does. The next administration could investigate and punish the companies for these tactics. I doubt it will happen, however.

[XErikxthexRedX]

It is my understanding, and no one has mentioned this yet, that the reason WE are paying so much for gas is because WE as a country can't refine the oil to meet the demand. We don't have anywhere near the amount of refineries we should have to handle the amount of crude oil that comes into this country. I remember seeing recently that OPEC has upped its output and that seems to happen every so often. So you really can't fault supply. Granted you have more and increasing demand around the world in places like china and other developing countries, but I think oil supplies are still meeting demands. I am not saying that the current status of the dollar is helping gas prices either, but I think refining is the biggest issue when it comes to domestic gas prices.

[asmolitor]

Gas prices clearly are not too high, or they wouldn't be the price they are. Simple economics. We're buyin' what they're sellin', and they're gonna keep upping the price until we stop buying.

One solution? Cut down on gas. If everyone did this, they'd have to lower their prices. However, gas is really as close to a necessity as it can get, so there is another option.

A mass boycotting of two or three different gas stations. If everyone stopped going to those gas stations, they would have to lower their prices to get people back, and once that happened, their competitors would also have to lower their prices to compete.

Not that either of these are gonna happen.

but in that scenario, if the boycotted gas station has to lower their prices, the competing stations with all the business would buy the gas from the boycotted station. and once there's a return to the boycotted station's business, the prices just go back to the equilibrium that existed previously.

Listen, Gas Prices are not due ONLY to the scarcity of oil.
Economically speaking, participating in any public action, such as driving your car, you are consequently performing externalities. When you drive, you do not pay for the delay you cause on other drivers, you do not pay for the congestion, nor the damage to nature. Now, to pay for other things, the gas prices contribute not only to the cost of gas, because then there is no profit. The profit does not always get scraped into the Government's pockets, contrary to popular belief. The government gives that money straight back for the factors of production, including Land, Labor, and Capital. For your house, the government HAS to pay for it, where do you think that money comes from? To pay you, or your parents, your brother, whatever, for the work that they do, they need to get this money from taxation on industry, private business firms, and households. Gas is a good, not unlike buying a gallon of milk. The only problem is that gas is an elastic good. You can stretch the price and the demand will not decrease. Other than bitching about it, how many of you have actually stopped driving? Very little, I assume. I think the gas prices should actually even go up more, because this lack of money circulation is what's causing this so called recession to begin with. Making more money circulate will improve everything and lower gas prices, that's why they are doing this Economic Stimulis to families...to give them more money to spend and circulate. Not to mention that when there is a shortage of an item, the one way to get rid of the shortage is to raise prices so only those who absolutely need it will pay for it, and once so few people actually purchase it, there will be a surplus and the prices will slowly begin to lower, but you people need to be patient, this is not going to happen overnight.

I hope this cleared SOMETHING up.

KrisPutrid

good rant, though after the first sentence you should've stopped, as the rest of it is completely off base. also, the demand gas is inelastic - more or less due to the lack of a substitute good more than price. as for gas prices and inflation, i think you have it backwards - the gas prices, to me, are a reflection of inflation to an extent. and your cause for the recession - well, no. and there will never be an economic surplus of gas. ever. the slight subsidy and price support that the oil companies get would most likely never cause that to be true.

Which is needed...You need to understand that sometimes raises in prices are needed or else the low prices and high demand will end up with lower supply, and the ONLY way to make the supply last while demand stays constant is to raise prices. That's just how it works.

KrisPutrid

but you can't make oil last! even if you hedged your bets and tried to keep gasoline storage, the shelf life of it is like 30 days or something. simplistic supply and demand models have to be completely thrown out the window in terms of oil/gasoline - it will never do the situation any sort of justice.

[asmolitor]

Its mostly due to the fed inflating our money supply. Debasing our currency by printing too many dollars. Thats why there are countries that are no longer accepting the US dollar as currency. It's also the reason why Iran is telling OPEC to change to the Euro instead of the US dollar backed by oil.

Like Ron Paul said if you look at the price of oil backed by the US dollar it has gone up 300%, if you look at Oil backed by the Euro it has gone up 200%, if you look at oil backed by gold it has stayed flat.
So why have we let the Federal Reserve rob us of our wealth?

there's entirely more political motivations than economic motivations in all of what you just said. and the fed isn't robbing you of your wealth, it's trying to ensure that in the future, you'll even have wealth to gain. but, if you'd rather do the theoretical "right" thing and implement some sort of contractionary monetary policy to up the value of the dollar, and are okay with a massive rise in interest rates and unemployment, along with a reduction in output/GDP - go ahead. but it's political death, and an even worse scenario than now.

I guess to answer the question a little bit more how can the candidates promise lower gas prices. Well for one the President gets to appoint the head of the Federal Reserve. Therefore they can replace the the head of the Federal Reserve with someone that knows what they are doing or they can introduce an alternative currency to compete with the United States dollar. The other thing a candidate can do is to stop all these entitlements that we have. We have 9 trillion dollars in debt and another 54 billion dollars in unfunded entitlements. When we don't have the money, we go to the Fed and ask for it, they give it to us, and we the American people pay the interest. Since we can not pay the interest because we have now spent money we didn't have in the first place, we have to borrow money from China and other countries that will give it to us. If we stop these entitlement programs and start paying off the national debt and also start to buy back dollars the value of the dollar will go up. The other thing we can do is get all the other countries to debase there currency too, but ultimately that won't solve anything.

We could also switch back to the gold standard.

right, because bernacke has no idea what he's doing. the fact that he was essentially greenspan's handpicked successor has no bearing on the ability bush thought he could do in terms of his job. create another domestic currency to compete with the dollar? you are out of your fucking mind. paying off the national debt, as i've stated before, is a complete afterthought and an essentially intangible amount we've always been saddled with since the mid 1800's. get other countries to debase their currency? you sir, you astound me. you'd rather have massive global inflation to achieve a slight appreciation in the dollar? of which you'd rather get rid of with a competing domestic currency. i'm literally clapping. bravo.

[asmolitor]

It is my understanding, and no one has mentioned this yet, that the reason WE are paying so much for gas is because WE as a country can't refine the oil to meet the demand. We don't have anywhere near the amount of refineries we should have to handle the amount of crude oil that comes into this country. I remember seeing recently that OPEC has upped its output and that seems to happen every so often. So you really can't fault supply. Granted you have more and increasing demand around the world in places like china and other developing countries, but I think oil supplies are still meeting demands. I am not saying that the current status of the dollar is helping gas prices either, but I think refining is the biggest issue when it comes to domestic gas prices.

i also thought that for some political motive, no new refineries could be built. and well, i guess environmental and safety concerns probably come in to play too. but you seem to have a pretty good grasp on it, at least for my liking (whatever that's worth).

[asmolitor]

Ascribing it simply to economics does not explain the price of gas. If it were matter of economics, then Exxon would not have the profit margins it does. The next administration could investigate and punish the companies for these tactics. I doubt it will happen, however.

agreed. and in terms of economics, there's literally dozens of models that have to be simultaneously built to try and explain the enigma that is gasoline.

[asmolitor]

Alaska and the national reserves = end crisis.

no. it'd just delay the crisis, if anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Refuge_drilling_controversy# Estimates_of_oil_reserves

based on what proportion of that oil directly goes to domestic consumption (even then, there's a large amount to be made by exporting...) you have between 1 and 30 years based on best estimates. and, none of this takes into account that while we consume some portion of alaskan oil, other countries certainly aren't going to curtail their consumption of world gasoline. arguably, it'd reduce some of the stress of the current crisis, but it's by no means an end to it. and even then, when we tap into (and, subsequently) run out of those reserves, we're really screwed.

[saysmydoctor]

Asmolitor, I was kidding.

Though I still believe we should tap into our own emergency reserves to stymy gas prices.

[asmolitor]

Asmolitor, I was kidding.

Though I still believe we should tap into our own emergency reserves to stymy gas prices.

good. i thought you had gone back into the 'inane' ways of the past. i don't declare this an "emergency" type situation yet, though i'm not opposed to opening it up on a somewhat limited basis to alleviate some of the pressure.

[saysmydoctor]

I've come to the conclusion there is nothing that can be done about gas prices. Our post Cold-War era foreign policy is outdated and thus far has put us deeply involved in Iraq where we are sitting on nearly 20% of the world's oil supply (if you add that with our troops in Kuwait as well). Our prolonged presence there will only make the situation more volatile. The war at first wasn't about oil. Now it is. We're on the verge of international crisis that could elevate into widespread violence--and I think that is the brightside.

I mean think about, Iraq is getting broke but supposedly the reconstruction was supposed to funded by the oil. It isn't, that's not happening. It's coming out of our pocket while the refineries in Iraq barely produce. OPEC is intelligently scaling back on refining because I believe they are trying to send us a message. Chavez and the situation in South America is getting out of hand, as those countries gear up for some kind of confrontation (we purchase 60% of Venezuala's oil, yet supposedly don't support Chavez's regime).

Meanwhile, the economy is getting fisted by some force. The world is in the shitter.

[sdbrown]

Americans are also known as the prime example of being economically myopic, meaning shortsighted. We will do ANYTHING for a quick fix, but come time for a future planned choice, we manage to mess everything up. Let's hear it for having confidence in your own nation.

-KrisPutrid
Amen. I have the memory of a goldfish so I forget which president, but didn't Carter or Nixon want to increase the tax on gas back in the 50-70s so people would cut back a little on their consumption? Everyone thought the oil would last forever and ever and we'd never have to worry. My dad was telling me how everyone went apeshit when they tried to pass the bill.


Alaska and the national reserves = end crisis.
I was about to lay into you for this, good thing you were kidding. And I don't think the world is in the shitter. America is probably in the shitter, other countries, not so much.

I've been at school for the last two months and don't have a car down there so don't pay that much attention to prices. I freaked out when I came home and saw gas prices literally shot up 35+ cents per gallon since last time I filled up.