Winona State wins men's division II basketball tournament!

[bs7090]

represent.

[CubbyNick42]

Sorry. Your school will only be remembered for one thing.

LFYnersg2Us

[LeftWideOpen]

haha, owned.

[FondestMemory]

could you imagine a division one championship game ending like that? that shit would never be lived down.

[preppyak]

haha...ouch

[soundofthebrown]

hahaha amazing.

[Siren Silently]

Harsh hahaha.

[Broken Parachute]

Barton will always own you.

[bs7090]

haha, the entire campus shut down for like a week after that

[Scott Weber]

that is one of the greatest college basketball moments ever, IMO.

[bigmike]

I loved that game. Though the Barton kid clearly travels as he runs from the 3 point line to the bucket.

[KillMeTheKing26]

hahah destroyed.

[LastPlaceRocks]

Hey, they still won for the 2nd time in 3 years - more than any other D1 or D2 school has this decade besides Florida the last two year. At least respect that.

[preppyak]

have you ever watched DII or DIII basketball...at least at my school, the high school games are more interesting than DIII games.

Building a dynasty at DII/III is not as impressive as DI...shit, college lacrosse, the same 2 schools win those divisions every year.

[LastPlaceRocks]

No, I went to a "real" school and haven't seen an actual D2 game. But I did go and look it up and there hasn't been a school in D2 that did what Winona St. did since '99.

I just feel though that people should acknowledge that what they did was something rather than just shoot them down for blowing a game last year. It doesn't have anything to do with them winning a championship this year, which is the point of the thread. if anything, it at least gives them something for coming back from that loss and rallying to win a championship.

have you ever watched DII or DIII basketball...at least at my school, the high school games are more interesting than DIII games.

Building a dynasty at DII/III is not as impressive as DI...shit, college lacrosse, the same 2 schools win those divisions every year.

[preppyak]

well congratulations...see, I am acknowledging your having gone to a "real" school. Now that you've seen that acknowledgement, do you think anyone except for you actually cares about that fact...because I know I don't

And the same is true of this thread...I'll be impressed when Winona is winning 100 straight games, or something absurd like that that makes them truly stand apart from mediocrity. Does anyone really care who wins the single-A and AA baseball leagues beyond their fans? Does anyone really care about 1-AA football except for when some absurd play is made, or they beat a 1-A school? And does anyone really care that you went to a school that has a higher percentage of people that will do nothing with their lives than I do?

The answer is no, and thats why people ripped on the team in the thread...because the only memory they created was one of getting torched for a championship

[FondestMemory]

i don't like when people tell me to respect something.

[preppyak]

I've watched the D-II title game on ESPNU...never again, man was that a mistake...its on that channel at like 2pm for a reason

[SgtSmegma]

Sorry. Your school will only be remembered for one thing.

LFYnersg2Us

Utter pwnage

[bigmike]

No, I went to a "real" school and haven't seen an actual D2 game. But I did go and look it up and there hasn't been a school in D2 that did what Winona St. did since '99.

I just feel though that people should acknowledge that what they did was something rather than just shoot them down for blowing a game last year. It doesn't have anything to do with them winning a championship this year, which is the point of the thread. if anything, it at least gives them something for coming back from that loss and rallying to win a championship.
Winona State will get recognition when they match what Grand Valley State University has done in D2 football.

Appeared in 5 of the last 7 national title games.
Won 4 of those 7.
Won 4 of the last 6 national titles.

2 out of the 3 is nice and all, but not unprecedented or that amazing -- especially at a level like D2 where dynasties aren't overly difficult to build.

[LastPlaceRocks]

Sorry that it took me a couple days to respond to this - I've been busy traveling and working. Responding in numerical order:

1. Does anyone here on AP.net care about where I went? I doubt it, although if they do that would be strange and creepy since I am an anonymous poster on a message board. I really don't care where you went or will go to school either, but I do hope you end up using your education.

2. Last time I checked, being the best team in your league/division would make a basketball team stand apart from mediocrity.

3. This is the real problem I have with your entire argument. I don't mind any personal attacks, it's easy to hide behind a keyboard. But you are basically inferring that outside of the top levels of mainstream collegiate and professional sports, no other teams or sports matter. I guess kids growing up in America playing lacrosse or soccer or even spending hours playing in a band should just stop what they are doing because none of it matters - most of America doesn't care what you are doing.

Look, I've already stated in this thread that I've never seen a D-2 game, and in fact I have no interest in doing so. But I'm pretty sure that an individual or team working hard to obtain their ultimate goal deserves at least some respect rather than ridicule since a championship is a championship regardless of class or division. You don't have to like the team, sport or the league, but it's ridiculous to ridicule a team that won something based on an unrelated moment in the past. If that was the case, I'd dismiss the last two Boston Red Sox World Series titles based on their eighty-six years of previous futility.

4. Again, unless someone is very creepy and cares about my life more than I know it, hells no.

5. Well now people have two memories of the Winona State basketball team, one where they witnessed or heard about an epic collapse and a second where they won a D2 championship.

well congratulations...see, I am acknowledging your having gone to a "real" school. Now that you've seen that acknowledgement, (1)do you think anyone except for you actually cares about that fact...because I know I don't

And the same is true of this thread...I'll be impressed when Winona is winning 100 straight games, or something absurd like that that (2)makes them truly stand apart from mediocrity. (3)Does anyone really care who wins the single-A and AA baseball leagues beyond their fans? Does anyone really care about 1-AA football except for when some absurd play is made, or they beat a 1-A school? (4)And does anyone really care that you went to a school that has a higher percentage of people that will do nothing with their lives than I do?

The answer is no, and thats why people ripped on the team in the thread...(5)because the only memory they created was one of getting torched for a championship

[LastPlaceRocks]

If that's the threshold for recognizing teams' success, then I doubt any D1 football team will get any recognition from me soon. Plus, someone in this thread already told me that D2 sports don't count for anything, so based on that I shouldn't recognize Grand Valley State anyways.

Seriously, I'm not saying that the Winona State D2 basketball championship is the greatest thing to happen in the history of sports. And I'd be an idiot to say that winning a championship two out of three years is unprecedented. But much in the same way that I'm sure that people will congratulate OSU for winning the NIT (which is not the best championship in college basketball), you can do the same for a D2 school winning a championship even though it's not the best one available.


Winona State will get recognition when they match what Grand Valley State University has done in D2 football.

Appeared in 5 of the last 7 national title games.
Won 4 of those 7.
Won 4 of the last 6 national titles.

2 out of the 3 is nice and all, but not unprecedented or that amazing -- especially at a level like D2 where dynasties aren't overly difficult to build.

[rcrook]

kill yourself

[preppyak]

5. Well now people have two memories of the Winona State basketball team, one where they witnessed or heard about an epic collapse and a second where they won a D2 championship.
Maybe you do...I won't remember it after this thread disappears...but I will remember them getting torched last year

[CubbyNick42]

A Division I title says you have the best collection of amateur basketball players in the country. A DII title says...what? "We take kids with DI talent who can't spell SAT."

[Scott Weber]

A Division I title says you have the best collection of amateur basketball players in the country. A DII title says...what? "We take kids with DI talent who can't spell SAT."
Haha that's not true. DII says "We take 1A and 2A kids who never had enough skill or exposure to make it to a big school."

[CubbyNick42]

Yeah the exposure's a factor for sure. I went to small rural high school of about 500, and our leading scorer only got the chance to play at Hawaii after he took his juco team deep into whatever national tournament they have.

[LastPlaceRocks]

No.
kill yourself

Well I congratulate you on your selected sports memories then. And I also congratulate you for taking the time to learn about who won the D2 men's basketball tourney, since it's something you wouldn't care to find out normally.
Maybe you do...I won't remember it after this thread disappears...but I will remember them getting torched last year

Yeah, that sounds about right. Although I'd also add the big school kids who aren't good enough to play D1.
Haha that's not true. DII says "We take 1A and 2A kids who never had enough skill or exposure to make it to a big school."

Okay, I'm done defending a team and sport I really don't care about.

[bigmike]

If that's the threshold for recognizing teams' success, then I doubt any D1 football team will get any recognition from me soon. Plus, someone in this thread already told me that D2 sports don't count for anything, so based on that I shouldn't recognize Grand Valley State anyways.

Seriously, I'm not saying that the Winona State D2 basketball championship is the greatest thing to happen in the history of sports. And I'd be an idiot to say that winning a championship two out of three years is unprecedented. But much in the same way that I'm sure that people will congratulate OSU for winning the NIT (which is not the best championship in college basketball), you can do the same for a D2 school winning a championship even though it's not the best one available.
Anyone congratulating OSU for winning the NIT is worse then anything stated in this thread. Winning the NIT is basically like winning the 100 meter dash at fat camp.

They're still the 66th best team in the nation.

[sundaydrivetsl]

It shouldn't matter what enrollment is (ex. Davidson - 4,000) or name recognition. I believe that Winona State University is better than many DI schools. You cannot argue on the basis that "even so, the DI teams play harder teams", as there are many schools that play shitty schools, all year long. How about watching a fun Sacramento State (4-24) vs. South Dakota State (8-21) game? However, how about a MEMPHIS Vs. South Dakota game might be a bloodsport. Even so, I think that Winona State University wouldn't do too bad in D1, enrollment isn't low (10,000), so why aren't they D1? Many reasons, I don't know why. Maybe, though, they delegate spending elsewhere, to maybe education? or Technology? I'm sure the "REAL" schools, South Dakota State University, and Sacramento State University are great places, doubtful. I would rather be apart of an institution that has focuses on technology and education over athletics.

[sundaydrivetsl]

Haha that's not true. DII says "We take 1A and 2A kids who never had enough skill or exposure to make it to a big school."


True- And, when kids get talked into going to DI schools, only a select few of the recruits will ever amount to any significant success, or even playing time. There are hundreds of kids in DI that never see live game action, ever, for 4 years (well maybe a few minutes). These kids could go play for DII schools and be the stars, if not at least regular players, thus making DII teams better. I think kids are just drawn to the notoriety of big schools, or the fact that they are DI...and that DII has this some kind of bad meaning. I think any post-high school athletics is very impressive and something to give credit too. College and a full time athlete eats your life away.

[LastPlaceRocks]

It shouldn't matter what enrollment is (ex. Davidson - 4,000) or name recognition. I believe that Winona State University is better than many DI schools. You cannot argue on the basis that "even so, the DI teams play harder teams", as there are many schools that play shitty schools, all year long. How about watching a fun Sacramento State (4-24) vs. South Dakota State (8-21) game? However, how about a MEMPHIS Vs. South Dakota game might be a bloodsport. Even so, I think that Winona State University wouldn't do too bad in D1, enrollment isn't low (10,000), so why aren't they D1? Many reasons, I don't know why. Maybe, though, they delegate spending elsewhere, to maybe education? or Technology? I'm sure the "REAL" schools, South Dakota State University, and Sacramento State University are great places, doubtful. I would rather be apart of an institution that has focuses on technology and education over athletics.

They're not D1 because there's no flagship MNSCU university - I know Mankato's trying to become it and both them and St. Cloud State are bigger than Winona. And I'm still done trying to defend them; I just wanted to point that out.

[bs7090]

A Division I title says you have the best collection of amateur basketball players in the country. A DII title says...what? "We take kids with DI talent who can't spell SAT."

too far

[CubbyNick42]

How do you think Mt. Union wins the DIII football title every year?

[CarlosLunes]

defense

[mrfottlefocket]

remember last year when winona beat UofM? i know minnesota sucks and all, but that's pretty impressive.

[mrfottlefocket]

True- And, when kids get talked into going to DI schools, only a select few of the recruits will ever amount to any significant success, or even playing time. There are hundreds of kids in DI that never see live game action, ever, for 4 years (well maybe a few minutes). These kids could go play for DII schools and be the stars, if not at least regular players, thus making DII teams better.
look at john smith.

[LastPlaceRocks]

remember last year when winona beat UofM? i know minnesota sucks and all, but that's pretty impressive.
I don't really follow Gopher basketball, but was that this past season or the year before where they went something like 9-20?

[bs7090]

look at john smith.

john smith = two time D2 player of the year = would play, but get owned in D1

theres just no reason for this borderline dudes to go D1

[bs7090]

I don't really follow Gopher basketball, but was that this past season or the year before where they went something like 9-20?

the idea that a D2 school out of one small city can beat a D1 university of that entire state is really what he's going after i think.

[LastPlaceRocks]

the idea that a D2 school out of one small city can beat a D1 university of that entire state is really what he's going after i think.
I forgot about that, but that was a real question since I don't really follow bouncy ball.

[preppyak]

remember last year when winona beat UofM? i know minnesota sucks and all, but that's pretty impressive.
I don't really follow Gopher basketball, but was that this past season or the year before where they went something like 9-20?
Regardless...we are talking pre-season exhibition games in November. When was the last time we declared a Super Bowl Champion because of a pre-season game? Or declared the National Champion out of the spring games in football?
the idea that a D2 school out of one small city can beat a D1 university of that entire state is really what he's going after i think.
Michigan lost to Grand Valley State earlier in the year...I forget the other team that lost (I feel it was a Big East or SEC team)...but its happened several times this decade alone. The reason why? Because no coach really takes those exhibition games seriously beyond maybe seeing freshmen step up and play well.

Impressive that they can compete at any level...a bit...but its in no way groundbreaking.

[FondestMemory]

Minnesota sucks at basketball...

i cant believe they are a D1, Big 10 school, and one of the highest regarded University in the country, but they have the shittiest basketball program. Why? well for one thing, there are no black people in MN. and black people are good at basketball, im not racist nor bias, im just saying MInnesota recruits JUST IN MINNESOTA. Minnesota is full of farm boys and hockey players, none of which make good basketball players, its just how it is.

as a kid you dont grow up dreaming of being "MJ", its a staple for Minnesotan society to eat, breath, and bleed hockey. its just how it is. Many kids dreams arent even to play in the NHL, but wear the M on your gold hockey jersey for the GOPHs.

wow.

[CubbyNick42]

Yeah Bobby Jackson's not black at all.

[sundaydrivetsl]

wow.

wow what.

the NBA is 75% African American. its a fact.

the NHL is 98% white. its a fact.

Minnesota is a hockey state. its a fact.

U of M recruits 60% of their roster from the Twin Cities area.

Twin Cities is known for good hockey, not basketball players.

A school recruiting a market that is predominant in hockey doesnt stand a chance.

If you are scared about facts then leave the forum

[FondestMemory]

i'm not scared of facts, but i really dislike ignorant stereotypes.

i don't give a shit what point you're trying to make, bringing up the race card was fucking irrelevant.

[Scott Weber]

...wow.

[sundaydrivetsl]

john smith = two time D2 player of the year = would play, but get owned in D1

theres just no reason for this borderline dudes to go D1


some people like the notoriety of being part of a large university.

[Scott Weber]

wow what.

the NBA is 75% African American. its a fact.

the NHL is 98% white. its a fact.

Minnesota is a hockey state. its a fact.

U of M recruits 60% of their roster from the Twin Cities area.

Twin Cities is known for good hockey, not basketball players.

A school recruiting a market that is predominant in hockey doesnt stand a chance.

If you are scared about facts then leave the forum
What you said was a blind, racist, ignorant stereotype, I don't care what kind of disclaimer you put next to it.

[CarlosLunes]

minnesota isnt even good at recruiting white players
see: Janning, Matt

[mrfottlefocket]

What you said was a blind, racist, ignorant stereotype, I don't care what kind of disclaimer you put next to it.
it's ok, he likes senses fail.

[sundaydrivetsl]

i'm not scared of facts, but i really dislike ignorant stereotypes.

i don't give a shit what point you're trying to make, bringing up the race card was fucking irrelevant.


What race card? and what stereotype?

It isn't a stereotype that African Americans are better at basketball than Caucasians. It's just how it is.

You're being ignorant like a little bitch and took it as a "race card" comment.

I don't care about race. I pointed out a simple fact. I don't understand why you took it so personally. Are you black? And if you are, does it really hurt you that I said that the Twin Cities doesn't have a large African American community? It IS A FACT, DUDE. Move here and take a look for yourself.

That's why I said why THE U OF M has a shitty basketball program. They don't nationally recruit, thus they only choose from a small amount of OK farm boys who suck at basketball, and grew up being fed hockey, hockey, hockey, their whole lives.

Fucking Flip Saunders kid played for UofM. He was horrible in high school, granted his dad was the head coach of the local professional team.

www.census.gov

check out the demographics, bro.

[bs7090]

What race card? and what stereotype?

It isn't a stereotype that African Americans are better at basketball than Caucasians. It's just how it is.


there you go.

[CubbyNick42]

So it's not possible to have good high school basketball without black people? That's what you're saying, right? And you don't see what's wrong with that?

[bs7090]

That's why I said why THE U OF M has a shitty basketball program. They don't nationally recruit, thus they only choose from a small amount of OK farm boys who suck at basketball, and grew up being fed hockey, hockey, hockey, their whole lives.



yeah... growing up without an NHL hockey team from 1993-2000... really shoving it down our throats...

[sundaydrivetsl]

So it's not possible to have good high school basketball without black people? That's what you're saying, right? And you don't see what's wrong with that?

NO. I did not say that, whatsoever.

I pointed out that its impossible to produce a large stock of D-1 ready kids when there is such a small following of basketball, when some high schools dont even have basketball teams.

[sundaydrivetsl]

yeah... growing up without an NHL hockey team from 1993-2000... really shoving it down our throats...

Come to Minnesota. It was like Stalinist Russia for 8 years without an NHL team here. People's lives shut down.

Kids play hockey year round here, in their backyards, and every high school has its own arena.

high school hockey is televised on Fox Sports Net on the regular

Minnesota has 5 D1 hockey teams.

tell me another place that has high school games on FoxSportsNet, muliple families in neighborhoods with their own hockey rink, EVERY high school having an arena, and 5 D1 hockey programs.

[FondestMemory]

What race card? and what stereotype?

It isn't a stereotype that African Americans are better at basketball than Caucasians. It's just how it is.

You're being ignorant like a little bitch and took it as a "race card" comment.

I don't care about race. I pointed out a simple fact. I don't understand why you took it so personally. Are you black? And if you are, does it really hurt you that I said that the Twin Cities doesn't have a large African American community? It IS A FACT, DUDE. Move here and take a look for yourself.

That's why I said why THE U OF M has a shitty basketball program. They don't nationally recruit, thus they only choose from a small amount of OK farm boys who suck at basketball, and grew up being fed hockey, hockey, hockey, their whole lives.

Fucking Flip Saunders kid played for UofM. He was horrible in high school, granted his dad was the head coach of the local professional team.

www.census.gov (http://www.census.gov)

check out the demographics, bro.

i don't give a shit about the demographics. you're completely missing the fucking point. i don't give a shit that minnesota sucks at basketball. i don't give a fuck about anything you're saying. your point is completely irrelevant to me.

however, it's a point that could be made without the ignorant stereotype.

[CarlosLunes]

ken wu was an exceptional offensive player for eden hall academy, and he wasnt white.

[CubbyNick42]

NO. I did not say that, whatsoever.
You pretty much did in your original post. Before you deleted it like a spineless little pus.

[sundaydrivetsl]

i don't give a shit about the demographics. you're completely missing the fucking point. i don't give a shit that minnesota sucks at basketball. i don't give a fuck about anything you're saying. your point is completely irrelevant to me.

however, it's a point that could be made without the ignorant stereotype.

What point am I missing?

Of course you do care about what I'm saying, or else you wouldn't keep Quoting my shit. So obviously you care, so don't make lies.

PM with what made you so mad, I'd be willing to put it in less sensitive terms to cheer you up.

[FondestMemory]

who would win in a game of one on one?

al sharpton or larry bird?

obviously sharpton, right?

[sundaydrivetsl]

You pretty much did in your original post. Before you deleted it like a spineless little pus.

Tear tear. That's all I have been seeing. It made everyone cry, like facts are the enemy. You can't even remember what I posted? It got you so upset to call me a "spineless little pus" over something you cannot even remember what it was?

Dude, don't confuse yourself, you're hiding behind a computer screen calling people names, but somehow I'm the bad guy because I said the Twin Cities doesn't produce great basketball players?

[CarlosLunes]

well he is black so..

[CubbyNick42]

Tear tear. That's all I have been seeing. It made everyone cry, like facts are the enemy. You can't even remember what I posted? It got you so upset to call me a "spineless little pus" over something you cannot even remember what it was?

Dude, don't confuse yourself, you're hiding behind a computer screen calling people names, but somehow I'm the bad guy because I said the Twin Cities doesn't produce great basketball players?
You tell me man. You're the one who didn't have the guts to leave it up.

[CarlosLunes]

Tear tear. That's all I have been seeing. It made everyone cry, like facts are the enemy. You can't even remember what I posted? It got you so upset to call me a "spineless little pus" over something you cannot even remember what it was?

Dude, don't confuse yourself, you're hiding behind a computer screen calling people names, but somehow I'm the bad guy because I said the Twin Cities doesn't produce great basketball players?

words cannot describe how much i HATE people who say things like this.
he is using a computer, what would you like him to do, leave where he lives, drive to you, ring your door bell, and say it to your face?
if he called you, would he be hiding behind a phone?
or are you that spineless that you have to revert to such cliche phrases, because you lack the ability to say anything even remotely intelligent for people to have an educated discussion about.

[Scott Weber]

fuck PMs. What you said was ignorant and offensive. You are totally missing the point. This isn't about demographics, this is about you saying "black people are good at basketball." How are you not understanding this? Now you're scrambling to tweak what you said into something less pot-stirring.

Now stop PM'ing me. Stop trying to argue something that is irrelevant to the shitstorm you brought on.

[FondestMemory]

awwwww, is somebody hiding behind pms's?

[sundaydrivetsl]

fuck PMs. What you said was ignorant and offensive. You are totally missing the point. This isn't about demographics, this is about you saying "black people are good at basketball." How are you not understanding this? Now you're scrambling to tweak what you said into something less pot-stirring.

Now stop PM'ing me. Stop trying to argue something that is irrelevant to the shitstorm you brought on.

Well if you could describe your claims then I wouldn't have to beg to get answers. fool

[CarlosLunes]

hey stop hiding behind that computer screen, you know the one that allows you to see what you and other people are writing.

[sundaydrivetsl]

who would win in a game of one on one?

al sharpton or larry bird?

obviously sharpton, right?


Larry Bird obviously. He is an NBA hall of famer.

He grew up playing basketball, and specialized in playing basketball.

Whats your point?

[sundaydrivetsl]

fuck PMs. What you said was ignorant and offensive. You are totally missing the point. This isn't about demographics, this is about you saying "black people are good at basketball." How are you not understanding this? Now you're scrambling to tweak what you said into something less pot-stirring.

Now stop PM'ing me. Stop trying to argue something that is irrelevant to the shitstorm you brought on.

show me where I typed "black people are good at basketball"

Don't let your perceptions fool you.

[FondestMemory]

but al sharpton's black, and black people are good at basketball.

[Scott Weber]

Well if you could describe your claims then I wouldn't have to beg to get answers. fool
My claims are that you said:

Why? well for one thing, there are no black people in MN. and black people are good at basketball,
This is a racist and ignorant stereotype. Nothing you can say, no survey data you can post, can save you from what you said there. Unless 100% of all black people are good at basketball and there are absolutely zero black people in Minnesota, then you are an ignorant, racially insensitive fuck. Go whine about how your "text doesn't define you" some more.

[sundaydrivetsl]

words cannot describe how much i HATE people who say things like this.
he is using a computer, what would you like him to do, leave where he lives, drive to you, ring your door bell, and say it to your face?
if he called you, would he be hiding behind a phone?
or are you that spineless that you have to revert to such cliche phrases, because you lack the ability to say anything even remotely intelligent for people to have an educated discussion about.

I just feel sorry that he had to resort to calling someone a "spineless pus"

I know everything I said I would say directly to someone's face in a one on one structured formal discussion, but I don't like I would go as low to getting angry and calling someone a "spineless pus"

[FondestMemory]

wow. scott. that's magic.

he deleted that post so nobody would see that he said it.

[CubbyNick42]

Except you quoted it, so it's there for anyone that looks. What a dumb motherfucker.

[CarlosLunes]

I just feel sorry that he had to resort to calling someone a "spineless pus"

I know everything I said I would say directly to someone's face in a one on one structured formal discussion, but I don't like I would go as low to getting angry and calling someone a "spineless pus"

well, you are a spineless pus

[Scott Weber]

show me where I typed "black people are good at basketball"

Don't let your perceptions fool you.
Guess what, mods can still read your deleted posts. There are no perceptions. That is exactly what you said.

http://i32.tinypic.com/2agvogi.jpg

[CarlosLunes]

its ok, he can be friends with justin

[sundaydrivetsl]

My claims are that you said:


This is a racist and ignorant stereotype. Nothing you can say, no survey data you can post, can save you from what you said there. Unless 100% of all black people are good at basketball and there are absolutely zero black people in Minnesota, then you are an ignorant, racially insensitive fuck. Go whine about how your "text doesn't define you" some more.

Whine? Weird.

I'm an educated person, I understand all of this, you don't have to describe to me what about logic and fallacies and the basis for agreement and argument.

This is an open forum. I didn't clearly explain what I meant without crossing borders of context, and I understand that. I apologize, but I was clearly stating why UofM has always had a crappy program (forget about a few years in the 1970s and 1997- a year they cheated) and I was getting at the point if maybe they did some national recruiting in markets that are prolifically known for producing great basketball players, then maybe once and awhile they could get into the NCAA tournament, -race aside. I should not have wrote it that way, I understand that now, I'm used to this forum being laid back about stuff and taking things in stride. This doesn't compromise as what I said as being wrong, because it was, and I apologize if anyone got truly offended. I know that its stupid to claim 100% of black people are good at basketball, and that MN has 0 black people, both of which are undoubtedly untrue.

All of you are thinking I am some fascist prick who doesn't know up from down. I understand what I said is a stereotype, but for what it is worth it wasn't intended to stir controversy, apparently I did.

As for PMs and deleting posts. I'm new to this site. I don't know rules. I have never seen a "moderator" before, I thought it was going to be 'delete' anyway, so I though I might as well be the guy who does it. I don't find it necessary to post quotes back and forth when you can just PM back and forth.

[Scott Weber]

All I hear is "oh shit, he can see my old post and everyone caught me in a really obvious lie."

[CarlosLunes]

you just wasted so much time writing that novel up there instead of just saying, "wow i am a moron for thinking that it would be impossible for anyone to prove that i deleted something"

[sundaydrivetsl]

Guess what, mods can still read your deleted posts. There are no perceptions. That is exactly what you said.

http://i32.tinypic.com/2agvogi.jpg

Oh my god man, I didn't know that. Holy shit. Really? Wow. Its like your from the future! Cool! I never knew being a forum moderator could let you do that, because I mean without being able to do that would pretty much make you worthless.

I deleted it because I'm sick of you people being sensitive pricks and attacking me for a comment that came out wrong, I saw a....what did you call yourself Scott?, a ""Mod"" and thought it was going to be deleted anyway so I did it myself.

[CubbyNick42]

"I guess I should use big words like 'fallacies' and 'prolifically' so they think I'm less of a dumbshit."

[Scott Weber]

As for PMs and deleting posts. I'm new to this site. I don't know rules. I have never seen a "moderator" before, I thought it was going to be 'delete' anyway, so I though I might as well be the guy who does it. I don't find it necessary to post quotes back and forth when you can just PM back and forth.
http://i30.tinypic.com/2116xhi.jpg
You're not new to the site. You have 400+ posts. If you've ever used a message board for more than 30 seconds, you understand the concept of staff/mods. Unless you're a complete idiot...which you seem to be.

[sundaydrivetsl]

All I hear is "oh shit, he can see my old post and everyone caught me in a really obvious lie."

You've got yourself some good ears there Scotty.

Since I'm pretty worried about "everyone in this forum catching me in an obvious lie"

What did I lie about again?

[Scott Weber]

Oh my god man, I didn't know that. Holy shit. Really? Wow. Its like your from the future! Cool! I never knew being a forum moderator could let you do that, because I mean without being able to do that would pretty much make you worthless.

I deleted it because I'm sick of you people being sensitive pricks and attacking me for a comment that came out wrong, I saw a....what did you call yourself Scott?, a ""Mod"" and thought it was going to be deleted anyway so I did it myself.
No, you deleted it because you realized everyone called you out on it, then you pretended like you never said it, even though you know damn well you did, then after you called me out on you not seeing it, I took visual evidence and you got pwned. End of story.

[sundaydrivetsl]

http://i30.tinypic.com/2116xhi.jpg
You're not new to the site. You have 400+ posts. If you've ever used a message board for more than 30 seconds, you understand the concept of staff/mods. Unless you're a complete idiot...which you seem to be.

Since I sit on AP.net all day when I'm working 12 hour days all summer, sorry I have better things to do. And about 300 of my 400 posts have came in the past few months. And you're the first "MOD" I have ever seen in a forum.

I said something wrong, people freaked out, and I noticed a "mod" made a comment.

My thought process: Shit, I said something bad, he's in here now to either A. Delete it or B. IDK, kick me out of the forum or something, like I said I'm not fully aware of rules and stuff. So I figure might as well delete it so im not notoriously known as a pig headed piece of garbage, because thats not who I am.

[Scott Weber]

NO. I did not say that, whatsoever.

I pointed out that its impossible to produce a large stock of D-1 ready kids when there is such a small following of basketball, when some high schools dont even have basketball teams.
show me where I typed "black people are good at basketball"

Don't let your perceptions fool you.
http://i32.tinypic.com/2agvogi.jpg

So much failure.

[S/T]

I just skimmed over this and I've got to ask you dude - would admitting that what you said was inappropriate and poorly worded really have been that much worse than all of this?

[rcrook]

its too bad that they wont let barack obama lead the point for the suns, i think he lead the suns over the spurs much better than steve nash

[sundaydrivetsl]

No, you deleted it because you realized everyone called you out on it, then you pretended like you never said it, even though you know damn well you did, then after you called me out on you not seeing it, I took visual evidence and you got pwned. End of story.

Did you ever think that my intention never intended to be what everyone perceive it as? To tell you the truth, it came out wrong and I actually forgot what I even said, I didn't delete to pretend that I never said something.

Use your magic and put it back up if I'm not in trouble, since that's why I thought you came in here in the first place.

[CubbyNick42]

That hole you're digging is getting mighty deep.

[CarlosLunes]

go away

[Scott Weber]

Did you ever think that my intention never intended to be what everyone perceive it as? To tell you the truth, it came out wrong and I actually forgot what I even said, I didn't delete to pretend that I never said something.

Use your magic and put it back up if I'm not in trouble, since that's why I thought you came in here in the first place.
Making you look a completely racist and ignorant idiot is much more satisfying, effective, and humiliating than banning you. So no thanks, I'm good. Congrats on being inducted to the sports forum hall of shame.

[rcrook]

do you think the minnesota vikings are a top 5 team?

[CarlosLunes]

no, the vikings are not because their quarterback is better at basketball than the sport he gets paid to play.

next question

[sundaydrivetsl]

I just skimmed over this and I've got to ask you dude - would admitting that what you said was inappropriate and poorly worded really have been that much worse than all of this?

When I see a group of people calling me "ignorant, racist, immature" for something that no one could quote until after, yeah, it would have been better.

I am admitting I said something greatly inappropriate, and I am better than that, and I regret it. It was poorly worded in combination with poor perception. The perception that I truly deep down think that EVERY African American is great at basketball and that there are no African Americans in Minnesota is what people thought.

Stupid comment of me, worded horribly.

I should have said something like "Recruit somewhere away from the Twin Cities and the State of Minnesota, it isn't a basketball community. It's hard to find quality basketball players in the area when half the kids grow up playing hockey and working on farms their whole lives. Dan Monson couldn't get that through his head.

[sundaydrivetsl]

You are the biggest phonies.

You both have really offensive "quotes" under your names. Both of which could be hurtful to people, but you're calling me out for one stupid comment?

[sundaydrivetsl]

That hole you're digging is getting mighty deep.

go away

no, the vikings are not because their quarterback is better at basketball than the sport he gets paid to play.

next question

/\ /\ /\

[CarlosLunes]

look, what i have under my name is 100% true, so if thats offensive to you, keep your girlfriend away from me.

(because ill fuck her cunt)

[CubbyNick42]

My desire to fellate Derrek Lee is none of your concern.

[Scott Weber]

You are the biggest phonies.

You both have really offensive "quotes" under your names. Both of which could be hurtful to people, but you're calling me out for one stupid comment?
Who on earth is going to get offended by "registered sex offender"???

[rcrook]

i hope your girlfriend likes DP because thats what carloslunes and I are all about

[CarlosLunes]

people whose fathers are sex offenders...

[Scott Weber]

And Cubbylee has a well-documented homosexual crush on Derek Lee, so now I guess you're homophobic about his gay crush. Are you intolerant of bisexual users as well? Way to go.

[rcrook]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/saosin9/wheel.jpg?t=1209427555


if only the category was "People who are good at basketball"...

[sundaydrivetsl]

Making you look a completely racist and ignorant idiot is much more satisfying, effective, and humiliating than banning you. So no thanks, I'm good. Congrats on being inducted to the sports forum hall of shame.

Well, if making someone look like a complete racist and ignorant idiot on an internet forum, then suit yourself. Especially congratulating someone to the "sports forum hall of shame"... then all the power to you, "mod"

I'm out of here, I have some real life, non-behind-my-computer-screen socializing to do, you know, with real life people. not words.

[CubbyNick42]

And Cubbylee has a well-documented homosexual crush on Derek Lee, so now I guess you're homophobic about his gay crush. Are you intolerant of bisexual users as well? Way to go.
I have a...brother?

I'm out of here, I have some real life, non-behind-my-computer-screen socializing to do, you know, with real life people. not words.
Alright buddy. Go fuck those bitches.

[CarlosLunes]

ok, think of me fisting your girlfriend.

[sundaydrivetsl]

Who on earth is going to get offended by "registered sex offender"???

Someone who has been raped, beaten, and molested by a sex offender.

Peace.

[Scott Weber]

Well, if making someone look like a complete racist and ignorant idiot on an internet forum, then suit yourself. Especially congratulating someone to the "sports forum hall of shame"... then all the power to you, "mod"

I'm out of here, I have some real life, non-behind-my-computer-screen socializing to do, you know, with real life people. not words.
Way to take the high road after arguing on the internet for the past 2 hours!

[Scott Weber]

Why did I say Cubbylee? Derek Lee? You guys are like one.

[CubbyNick42]

Yeah true.

[CarlosLunes]

Someone who has been raped, beaten, and molested by a sex offender.

Peace.


only white people are sex offenders.

[rcrook]

only mexicans are good at soccer

[mcfly21]

i enjoyed this thread

[mcfly21]

only mexicans are good at soccer

latinos sheesh

edit: sounded racist, i just wanted to make sure angentinians and brazilians were included

[Scott Weber]

all asians are good at math!

[Scott Weber]

no white people live in africa!

[mcfly21]

latinos sheesh

edit: sounded racist, i just wanted to make sure angentinians and brazilians were included

i laughed at myself for worrying about sounding racist in this thread

[CubbyNick42]

All Philly fans are 3 years behind on internet memes!

[CarlosLunes]

i wonder what this minnesota douche is doing with his real life friends...i wonder what its like to have real friends

[CubbyNick42]

Wearing smoking jackets and reading Kierkegaard.

[FondestMemory]

When I see a group of people calling me "ignorant, racist, immature" for something that no one could quote until after, yeah, it would have been better.

I am admitting I said something greatly inappropriate, and I am better than that, and I regret it. It was poorly worded in combination with poor perception. The perception that I truly deep down think that EVERY African American is great at basketball and that there are no African Americans in Minnesota is what people thought.

Stupid comment of me, worded horribly.

I should have said something like "Recruit somewhere away from the Twin Cities and the State of Minnesota, it isn't a basketball community. It's hard to find quality basketball players in the area when half the kids grow up playing hockey and working on farms their whole lives. Dan Monson couldn't get that through his head.

i quoted it the post immediately following your original post. i even bolded it to make it stand out.

[CarlosLunes]

i sentence sundaydrivetsl to.... 6 months hard marraige!

[bs7090]

Come to Minnesota. It was like Stalinist Russia for 8 years without an NHL team here. People's lives shut down.

Kids play hockey year round here, in their backyards, and every high school has its own arena.

high school hockey is televised on Fox Sports Net on the regular

Minnesota has 5 D1 hockey teams.

tell me another place that has high school games on FoxSportsNet, muliple families in neighborhoods with their own hockey rink, EVERY high school having an arena, and 5 D1 hockey programs.

lived here all my life, and i honestly think you are very strongly exaggerating.

[bs7090]

this thread took a very bad turn for the worse.

how about them winona state warriors? (a bunch of white dudes!)

[LastPlaceRocks]

lived here all my life, and i honestly think you are very strongly exaggerating.
Seconded.

[sundaydrivetsl]

lived here all my life, and i honestly think you are very strongly exaggerating.


because your 19. that made you 8 when the state got approved for the wild, and 4 when the northstars left, leave a comment when you know what your talking about

of course is exaggeration, thats pretty obvious. Do you really think that it was like "stalinist russia"?

you obviously didnt pay much attention to all the turmoil with the Northstars leaving.... because you were like 5 years old.

you didnt pay much attention to when Minneapolis were a hair away from getting the Winnipeg Jets, and then that got washed away.

you obviously werent around during the whole "whos going to have the team?, st paul or minneapolis" debates within the state senate.

[sundaydrivetsl]

Seconded.

Nice input

[CarlosLunes]

i think you're awesome, i bet nobody has ever told you that before.

[LastPlaceRocks]

Nice input
I thought so.

because your 19. that made you 8 when the state got approved for the wild, and 4 when the northstars left, leave a comment when you know what your talking about

of course is exaggeration, thats pretty obvious. Do you really think that it was like "stalinist russia"?

you obviously didnt pay much attention to all the turmoil with the Northstars leaving.... because you were like 5 years old.

you didnt pay much attention to when Minneapolis were a hair away from getting the Winnipeg Jets, and then that got washed away.

you obviously werent around during the whole "whos going to have the team?, st paul or minneapolis" debates within the state senate.
Here's my input:

There's a reason why the North Stars left - there wasn't a great amount of support and we wouldn't put in any money for a new arena (like every sports team in the Twin Cities). The previous owners before Norm Green attempted to move the Stars to the Bay Area due to lack of interest and revenue but were blocked by the Commissioner (instead creating the Sharks as an expansion team and a dispersal draft breaking up the merger of the North Stars and Cleveland Barons). Plus, you also have to remember that when Winnipeg had the Jets, most of Northern Minnesota (the Range, International Falls, Bemidji, Rosseau and Warroad) would be Jets fans since they are closer to Winnipeg than the Twin Cities (which created a great rivalry but took away a large portion of the Wild's current fanbase - there isn't another NHL team within 7 hours of here). Part of the North Stars thing in Minnesota right now is that people are very nostalgic for them (I know I am), but even after going to the Stanley Cup Finals in 1991 they had issues drawing a crowd.

It's not as if people paid attention during a depressing series of years for the Gophers in the mid-90s (minus Bonin winning the Hobey) and an IHL team playing at the Civic Center. It's not as if the Jets didn't get a good crowd playing a series of exhibition games at Target Center. Yes, hockey has always been important to the state - see the record crowds the High School tourneys get - but really up until the Wild and their genius marketing/new arena (which is still in its honeymoon phase) at the start of the decade, Minnesota has not treated their sports teams well.

Of course, none of this has to with basketball and Winona State.

[deadstar]

What has the Wild done differently now (aside from the new arena) marketing wise? I'm interested.

[LastPlaceRocks]

What has the Wild done differently now (aside from the new arena) marketing wise? I'm interested.
I have to go back to work, so this is the quick version - I can try to explain it better later if you want.

The entire Wild marketing ploy integrates honoring the fans and the entire "state of hockey" along with the team. Minnesota has a very rich hockey history with the boy's High School hockey tournament, the North Stars (nostalgia can do a wonder on people - plus I believe they have the rights now to the North Star logo and name), 5 D1 college hockey teams and many people in Minnesota remember growing up playing outdoors on ponds and rinks going up to high school hockey. So the Wild have incorporated all of that into their marketing by making the Wild a part of the grassroots hockey fabric.

Various examples of this include retiring the number "1" for their fans, their anthem to displaying every high school team's jersey in their concourse.

[sundaydrivetsl]

I thought so.


Here's my input:

There's a reason why the North Stars left - there wasn't a great amount of support and we wouldn't put in any money for a new arena (like every sports team in the Twin Cities). The previous owners before Norm Green attempted to move the Stars to the Bay Area due to lack of interest and revenue but were blocked by the Commissioner (instead creating the Sharks as an expansion team and a dispersal draft breaking up the merger of the North Stars and Cleveland Barons). Plus, you also have to remember that when Winnipeg had the Jets, most of Northern Minnesota (the Range, International Falls, Bemidji, Rosseau and Warroad) would be Jets fans since they are closer to Winnipeg than the Twin Cities (which created a great rivalry but took away a large portion of the Wild's current fanbase - there isn't another NHL team within 7 hours of here). Part of the North Stars thing in Minnesota right now is that people are very nostalgic for them (I know I am), but even after going to the Stanley Cup Finals in 1991 they had issues drawing a crowd.

It's not as if people paid attention during a depressing series of years for the Gophers in the mid-90s (minus Bonin winning the Hobey) and an IHL team playing at the Civic Center. It's not as if the Jets didn't get a good crowd playing a series of exhibition games at Target Center. Yes, hockey has always been important to the state - see the record crowds the High School tourneys get - but really up until the Wild and their genius marketing/new arena (which is still in its honeymoon phase) at the start of the decade, Minnesota has not treated their sports teams well.

Of course, none of this has to with basketball and Winona State.


Wow, you couldn't have put it any better. Perfect. Nostalgic is right, its crazy that there is still Northstars apparel and jerseys being sold at stores.

Yeah, the Wild are doing some great stuff with St. Paul and the Excel

Notably the Excel has saved downtown St. Paul, which was once decaying as young professionals and entertainment seekers stayed on Rice Street or fled to Downtown Minneapolis. The marketing with the whole "State of Hockey" and all has been an over all success.

[Scott Weber]

Wow, you couldn't have put it any better. Perfect. Nostalgic is right, its crazy that there is still Northstars apparel and jerseys being sold at stores.

Yeah, the Wild are doing some great stuff with St. Paul and the Excel

Notably the Excel has saved downtown St. Paul, which was once decaying as young professionals and entertainment seekers stayed on Rice Street or fled to Downtown Minneapolis. The marketing with the whole "State of Hockey" and all has been an over all success.
http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/blog/Jerome_James_250.jpg

[sundaydrivetsl]

I have to go back to work, so this is the quick version - I can try to explain it better later if you want.

The entire Wild marketing ploy integrates honoring the fans and the entire "state of hockey" along with the team. Minnesota has a very rich hockey history with the boy's High School hockey tournament, the North Stars (nostalgia can do a wonder on people - plus I believe they have the rights now to the North Star logo and name), 5 D1 college hockey teams and many people in Minnesota remember growing up playing outdoors on ponds and rinks going up to high school hockey. So the Wild have incorporated all of that into their marketing by making the Wild a part of the grassroots hockey fabric.

Various examples of this include retiring the number "1" for their fans, their anthem to displaying every high school team's jersey in their concourse.

Wow.. Owning rights to North Stars logo and name..Never thought of that.. I always wondered why they could still sell and promote the N logo and name...

The marketing campaign of "A team of 10,000" or whatever is... Thats kind of a creative push...

[Scott Weber]

Wow.. Owning rights to North Stars logo and name..Never thought of that.. I always wondered why they could still sell and promote the N logo and name...

The marketing campaign of "A team of 10,000" or whatever is... Thats kind of a creative push...
vYCEnVmNkpE

[bs7090]

because your 19. that made you 8 when the state got approved for the wild, and 4 when the northstars left, leave a comment when you know what your talking about

of course is exaggeration, thats pretty obvious. Do you really think that it was like "stalinist russia"?

you obviously didnt pay much attention to all the turmoil with the Northstars leaving.... because you were like 5 years old.

you didnt pay much attention to when Minneapolis were a hair away from getting the Winnipeg Jets, and then that got washed away.

you obviously werent around during the whole "whos going to have the team?, st paul or minneapolis" debates within the state senate.

nice to see you back, arguing, on the internet

[bs7090]

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/blog/Jerome_James_250.jpg

:rotfl:

[LastPlaceRocks]

Wow, you couldn't have put it any better. Perfect. Nostalgic is right, its crazy that there is still Northstars apparel and jerseys being sold at stores.

Yeah, the Wild are doing some great stuff with St. Paul and the Excel

Notably the Excel has saved downtown St. Paul, which was once decaying as young professionals and entertainment seekers stayed on Rice Street or fled to Downtown Minneapolis. The marketing with the whole "State of Hockey" and all has been an over all success.
Thanks - figure I might as well try to say something competent in this forum.

However, Downtown St. Paul is another matter - the X has helped it, but I wouldn't say saved it. Especially compared to Minneapolis.

Wow.. Owning rights to North Stars logo and name..Never thought of that.. I always wondered why they could still sell and promote the N logo and name...

The marketing campaign of "A team of 10,000" or whatever is... Thats kind of a creative push...
It's "The Team of 18,000" because of the arena size. Sorry, forgot about that one.

[CarlosLunes]

because your 19. that made you 8 when the state got approved for the wild, and 4 when the northstars left, leave a comment when you know what your talking about

of course is exaggeration, thats pretty obvious. Do you really think that it was like "stalinist russia"?

you obviously didnt pay much attention to all the turmoil with the Northstars leaving.... because you were like 5 years old.

you didnt pay much attention to when Minneapolis were a hair away from getting the Winnipeg Jets, and then that got washed away.

you obviously werent around during the whole "whos going to have the team?, st paul or minneapolis" debates within the state senate.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/MrGeeQ/976vtejpg.gif

[rcrook]

winner winner

[CarlosLunes]

you know it just works on so many levels considering he is from minnesota

[sundaydrivetsl]

.?