Whats with new pop punk boy bands?

[nfgzebrahed]

Ok, i like pop punk just as much as the next ap.net kid, but have you guys noticed that a lot of the bands are starting to sound frighteningly more like nsync, 98 deg., and the backstreet boys. I am 24, i survived the boy band craze, but i am afraid it is coming back, sneaking its way back in.

Ex. have you heard the cab's new album? Listen to songs like "Bounce" or "High Hopes in Velvet Ropes." Other bands pushing this, certainly the White Tie Affair, i saw their live show and i thought i was at nsyncs first performance. I don't know, maybe this comes from Patrick Stump, or Will Pugh gaining their notoriety. I have always been impressed by those guys. But i think pop(punk) bands are starting to see, oh, it pays to have a really good singer. Now they are adding these crazy harmonies and beats you would of never heard in the punk genre, with the DJ on stage with the sideways had, and the choreographed dance moves, guitarist blowing kissy faces at the crowd(again, see white tie affair live). Am i just being a douche? I feel kinda strange driving down the street blasting this stuff, i am just not secure enough for people to think i am listening to the Nsync reunion album?

Anyone else agree at all, see this trend?

[nfgzebrahed]

i love the descendents

[theguy77]

i think fall out boy are where the trend started, however i feel their decisions were ones of integrity. patrick stump has obvious influence from pop music and obviously prefers to sing that way. combine this to the way they were popularized by fueled by ramen, along with the soon-to-follow panic at the disco, paramore, and the academy is who are also really poppy, pretty soon it spreads exponentially.

[Foxholes]

There is nothing punk about The Cab, they're a straight up pop band like Maroon 5.

[Naenia]

i think fall out boy are where the trend started
Surely this is blasphemy of the highest order?

[theguy77]

No way. The real jump was Blink 182.

i dont find that they have a boybandy sound to them at all. they were the jump for a lot of lame trends but not this one i dont think.

[Naenia]

Was there even a 'jump?' Surely it's like evolution, changing gradually, each new band incorporating a bit more pop into their punk until they use head and shoulders to kill off the aliens?

[Until The Bombs]

Part of the problem has also been complete misconceptions of what genres bands actually belong to. Looking at The Cab's myspace, they group themselves into the category of "Soul/Pop/Rock." No mention of punk.

[absolution]

i was actually thinking the same thing today...
how long did the grunge phase last? I think this is a sign that the trend has run its course

[Foxholes]

I think it started when everyone realized a good vocalist can really help your pop "punk" band.

[theguy77]

no it started when people started making the melody the most important part, and crafting the music not for the sake of music but just to fit the melody.

[Until The Bombs]

On a side note, this is why someone created the genre discussion thread.

Was there even a 'jump?' Surely it's like evolution, changing gradually, each new band incorporating a bit more pop into their punk until they use head and shoulders to kill off the aliens?

Even within evolution there are jumps.

i was actually thinking the same thing today...
how long did the grunge phase last? I think this is a sign that the trend has run its course

Pop punk has been around far too long to be considered a trend in the same way grunge was.

[3eb23]

this trend is just so depressing...

[absolution]

Pop punk has been around far too long to be considered a trend in the same way grunge was.

grunge is still around man, you just don't hear about it...

[theguy77]

They themselves aren't boyband yet but looking at what preceeded them, namely Bad Religion, Lagwagon, Green Day etc.. Enema of the State was a huge jump towards a poppier sound which they consolidated on TOYPAJ. The jump between Enema/TOYPAJ and Fall Out Boy (who are really an evolution of The Get Up Kids anyway) is far more slight than the jump between Blink and their predecessors.

yeah this is truth, but...

Enema is all about the melody over music.

here is where i think theres a difference. sure blink's songs are simple as shit and a lot of them sound the same but it still seems like they jammed first and then slapped a melody on top of it.

[bowl of oranges]

Pop punk has been around for nearly three decades. It's not a trend.who's that in your avatar?

[Until The Bombs]

grunge is still around man, you just don't hear about it...

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound?

Pop punk has both been around longer and has remained popular with the general public for a longer period.

[bowl of oranges]

The legend that is Tom Waits.ahh
i've actually been wanting to get into his music because i've heard so many good things about him
any ideas on where i should start? [albums, preferrably]

[fran.182]

fall out boy is the key...of this new pop bands...

[bowl of oranges]

A lot of his best songs are really spread across many albums and moreover he has varied hugely in style over the years.

He doesn't do best of's either.

9ZmqbcBsTAw

Check this phenomenal tune for a start.

Then check out "Small Change" for his ballady stuff

"Rain Dogs" for the experimental

"Alice" for a really dark Waits album, although his music is always dark anyway.

"Orphans" (which is a bsides album, probably the best ever made) for a three disc compodium of what he offers.

NO ONE sounds like Tom Waits. He has perhaps one of the most unique voices in history.thanks man
i dig the video a lot, i really like his voice
i'm gonna download Small Change for now i think

[black rose]

I don't see pop punk as a bad thing at all. I mean, most pop punk bands love to just have fun, and that's what the music is about for the most part, fun. When I listen to pop punk, it puts a smile to my face, and it's great when you're in a great mood. I don't see the bad part of it. If you think it's shitty music, than that's cool. But just don't listen to it. :shrug:

[MrHandy]

I actually think that Green Day started it.

Green Day, while by far not the first punk band to sellout to a major label(see Husker Du), was the first to actually do it successfully.

After that pop punk quickly broke from true punk and became more poppy.

[AlternateToLife]

i think fall out boy are where the trend started, however i feel their decisions were ones of integrity. patrick stump has obvious influence from pop music and obviously prefers to sing that way. combine this to the way they were popularized by fueled by ramen, along with the soon-to-follow panic at the disco, paramore, and the academy is who are also really poppy, pretty soon it spreads exponentially.

Definitely the trend setters. I mean there were boy bandish sounding bands before them but the sudden popularity is almost definitely them. (And a little blink)

[MrHandy]

They were the first marketable pop punk band, or at least since the Ramones but they were still a punk band. Dookie is still way more punk than it is pop. Blink were the band that altered the pop punk sound to be more poppy.


True, but I don't think Blink would have had much success without Green Day opening the door.

[fran.182]

i guess all the small things is their only true poppy song...

no way blink started....if you heard fall out boy or boys like girls...have nothing to do with blink

[MrHandy]

and Besides the fact that Green day was one of the first successful sell-outs, they definetely included more of a pop elements in their break-out album ( although it was far less poppy than today's music).

[fran.182]

if green day hasn't sucess....blink would probably open the door to other bands...

[Until The Bombs]

lol @ all these people who don't understand this thread isn't talking about who brought punk to the mainstream.

[MrHandy]

if green day hasn't sucess....blink would probably open the door to other bands...


You know what, I doubt Blink would even have the guts to move from the independent labels if Green Day hadn't shown that it could in fact be successful.

We're not trashing the band, it's just a logical discussion.

[MrHandy]

lol @ all these people who don't understand this thread isn't talking about who brought punk to the mainstream.

It's definitely part of the discussion.

Grunge wouldn't become post-grunge without Grunge making it to the mainstream.

[Until The Bombs]

It's definitely part of the discussion.

Grunge wouldn't become post-grunge without Grunge making it to the mainstream.

No, it's definitely not part of the discussion because it is irrelevant to which band is most responsible for the current sound of pop punk bands.

[Until The Bombs]

You know what, I doubt Blink would even have the guts to move from the independent labels if Green Day hadn't shown that it could in fact be successful.

We're not trashing the band, it's just a logical discussion.

It's not a matter of guts. They wouldn't have had the opportunity.

[MrHandy]

No, it's definitely not part of the discussion because it is irrelevant to which band is most responsible for the current sound of pop punk bands.

No need to be a jerk, I mean what do you think we should be discussing?

[Until The Bombs]

No need to be a jerk, I mean what do you think we should be discussing?

Not being a jerk. There is no problem with steering the discussion that way. I was merely observing how people were throwing out irrelevant opinions.

[Bryant]

Man, if they go for the Boyz 2 Men route, I don't care, that was good stuff, haha. I figure these days anyone can be satisfied somehow by music. As far as The Cab, I do feel a little uncofortable with some of the BSB's type chorus's but it's not like they ever promised me or their fans any certain sound.

As for FOB, I grew up on R&B, then made the transition to rock bands, so once Pat started to show his R&B influences, I really respected that and wondered why no one else had done it.

[MrHandy]

Not being a jerk. There is no problem with steering the discussion that way. I was merely observing how people were throwing out irrelevant opinions.

Ok, No hard-feelings.

Anyway, I don't think Blink would have signed a major label without Green Day, it would have been seen as not-worth-it because of pressure from punks and the previous failure major label deals ( see Husker Du)

[Until The Bombs]

Ok, No hard-feelings.

Anyway, I don't think Blink would have signed a major label without Green Day, it would have been seen as not-worth-it because of pressure from punks and the previous failure major label deals ( see Husker Du)

I can see where you are coming from and I agree, but for different reasons. I just don't believe the labels would have cared about Blink in the first place if it wasn't for Green Day's success. I don't know how much the punk ideals would have mattered though, as I don't know how much Blink was really accepted into the punk community, at least compared to how Green Day supposedly was.

[MrHandy]

I can see where you are coming from and I agree, but for different reasons. I just don't believe the labels would have cared about Blink in the first place if it wasn't for Green Day's success. I don't know how much the punk ideals would have mattered though, as I don't know how much Blink was really accepted into the punk community, at least compared to how Green Day supposedly was.

Not being part of the punk community I don't really know, but I was under the impression that most pop punk bands were accepted into the community until they sold-out...but that's just my limited perspective.

I agree on the label part though, they probably didn't see much in any non-grunge or boy band till green day.

[GuitarR0cker1]

i think fall out boy are where the trend started, however i feel their decisions were ones of integrity. patrick stump has obvious influence from pop music and obviously prefers to sing that way. combine this to the way they were popularized by fueled by ramen, along with the soon-to-follow panic at the disco, paramore, and the academy is who are also really poppy, pretty soon it spreads exponentially.
Now you also have All Time Low, Powerspace, Mayday Parade etc, which are even more like boy bands. Even though All Time Low has some punk things about them, the latest new trend with this new wave of Pop Punk is even more Poppy in many aspects than Fall Out Boy, and MCR.

[Tyler Revolution]

i think fall out boy are where the trend started, however i feel their decisions were ones of integrity. patrick stump has obvious influence from pop music and obviously prefers to sing that way. combine this to the way they were popularized by fueled by ramen, along with the soon-to-follow panic at the disco, paramore, and the academy is who are also really poppy, pretty soon it spreads exponentially.

Fall Out Boy were not the first.

[theguy77]

The thing with Blink is that they are so damn amaeturish it's hard to say either way. They kind of just threw together songs around the same riffs they used for years. Their songs on Enema and TOYPAJ and definitely melody first in terms of how they prioritise when you listen back but as to how they wrote them they were too talentless to even bother with that shit I think. Why bother with strict melodies when you can't sing in tune you know? I imagine sometimes they built from riffs and other times they started with vocal lines. The music is soooo simple it's hard to imagine they started with the music because you now it's just four chords on a guitar and root notes. Travis can play better than any other pop punk drummer ever and his parts were/are by far the most important element of Blink. The question is whether pop is a mentality to songwriting or the music that comes out. I would say the music everytime but there's no definitive answer.

yeah. idk i just feel like they write music like 14 year olds, when they start out with the guitar parts i mean they just make 4 chords and travis puts his amazing drums to it and they're like this sounds good already and dont feel any need to add to it, any leads they may put on top were probably part of the production process and not the songwriting. but who are either of us to judge we werent part of their writing process, you're right that its really hard to judge either way in their case.

[Yes. And?]

This has been on my mind a lot lately.

[MrHandy]

This has been on my mind a lot lately.

Any thoughts?

[versus_god]

There have been plenty of great pop-punk bands since the Descendents, stop listening to bad music, eat shit, etc.

[Until The Bombs]

yeah. idk i just feel like they write music like 14 year olds, when they start out with the guitar parts i mean they just make 4 chords and travis puts his amazing drums to it and they're like this sounds good already and dont feel any need to add to it, any leads they may put on top were probably part of the production process and not the songwriting. but who are either of us to judge we werent part of their writing process, you're right that its really hard to judge either way in their case.

I remember hearing for one of the songs on the s/t album that mark and tom both went into separate rooms and wrote lyrics, one doing the chorus and one doing the verse. In order to do this they must have already came up with the music first. Of course they may not have always written songs in the same process, but just thought that I'd offer that info.

[Yes. And?]

Any thoughts?
I agree with Until the Bombs that a big part of the problem is people putting certain bands in the wrong genre. FBR will always be associated with "real" punk offshoots because of the bands that used to be on the label like JEW, Less than Jake, etc. So a lot of people in the "scene" notice and take offense to the sharp turn in direction the label has taken.

Also, many fans of current FBR bands are really lame, uninformed about genres, and think they're scene or "emo", so they label anything with a guitar, a stupid haircut, and/or associated with Pete Wentz (FBR, Clandestine, Decaydance, whatever) scene, even if it's extremely far removed from it.

Or something like that. :shrug:

[MrHandy]

I agree with Until the Bombs that a big part of the problem is people putting certain bands in the wrong genre. FBR will always be associated with "real" punk offshoots because of the bands that used to be on the label like JEW, Less than Jake, etc. So a lot of people in the "scene" notice and take offense to the sharp turn in direction the label has taken.

Also, many fans of current FBR bands are really lame, uninformed about genres, and think they're scene or "emo", so they label anything with a guitar, a stupid haircut, and/or associated with Pete Wentz (FBR, Clandestine, Decaydance, whatever) scene, even if it's extremely far removed from it.

Or something like that. :shrug:

Well, it's mostly the bands labeling themselves as punk.

Like Gerard way, recently he told NME (horrible magazine by the way) that his next album would be a return to punk rock...like they were actually ever punk.

[Yes. And?]

Well, it's mostly the bands labeling themselves as punk.

Like Gerard way, recently he told NME (horrible magazine by the way) that his next album would be a return to punk rock...like they were actually ever punk.
I actually haven't heard any of "these kind of bands" label themselves as punk.

What he meant was a less produced, more back-to-basics approach than The Black Parade was. I Brought You My Bullets, You Brought Me Your Love was a lot like that, and even Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge.

[Matt Is Godly]

The Higher.

[Until The Bombs]

Not to just argue with you, but...

Well, it's mostly the bands labeling themselves as punk.

Like Gerard way, recently he told NME (horrible magazine by the way) that his next album would be a return to punk rock...like they were actually ever punk.

Completely disagree. Sure you can find a few examples like the one you've given below, but Gerard was probably just trying to give people a general feel for what they album would be. They was probably the best and most simply description that he could come up with on the spot.

And sure, you ask someone to classify their music, they'll classify it. But bands aren't really going out and trying to put themselves into a category. It's the labels, the media and most listeners that need their music to be put into classified.

[MrHandy]

Not to just argue with you, but...



Completely disagree. Sure you can find a few examples like the one you've given below, but Gerard was probably just trying to give people a general feel for what they album would be. They was probably the best and most simply description that he could come up with on the spot.

And sure, you ask someone to classify their music, they'll classify it. But bands aren't really going out and trying to put themselves into a category. It's the labels, the media and most listeners that need their music to be put into classified.

Yeah, you're right on that.

But it had to start somewhere, why and when did they start labeling non-punk bands as punk?

[Until The Bombs]

Yeah, you're right on that.

But it had to start somewhere, why and when did they start labeling non-punk bands as punk?

For one thing, it's just easier to group artists with a genre that has name recognition. A second reason, it sounds "cool" to listen punk music. People like the idea that the are a rebel, a punk.

[MrHandy]

For one thing, it's just easier to group artists with a genre that has name recognition. A second reason, it sounds "cool" to listen punk music. People like the idea that the are a rebel, a punk.

Yeah.

So, at the rate things are going the next generation of boy bands are going to be called punks.

[Until The Bombs]

Yeah.

So, at the rate things are going the next generation of boy bands are going to be called punks.

I mean this in no way judging the music of FOB, MCR, ATL and the like, but they already are.

[MrHandy]

I mean this in no way judging the music of FOB, MCR, ATL and the like, but they already are.


Agreed.

[Yes. And?]

And Brand New! Have you ever seen their fandom on livejournal? Creepy.

[sugarcoatedlies]

you guys are mentioning blink and green day, but they still had punk elements.
it's bands like good charlotte and simple plan that got the snowball rolling downhill.
i admit, when i was like 8 i was obsessed with NSYNC, i enjoyed BSB and 98 Degrees.
they all had a formula to them.
4-5 good looking guys in their late teens to mid 20's that could sing and dance, but didn't write like 90 percent of their music.
then i moved on to pop punk, good charlotte and simple plan and new found glory.
that formula.
4-5 decent looking guys with tattoos that can sing, play instruments and write catchy songs.
nowadays' screamo, "emo" and pop punk bands are the next step.
4-5 good looking guys (and now sometimes with one girl) with tattoos that can sing play instruments write catchy songs and have like the same hairstyle and wear tight pants and band shirts. these are bands like escape the fate, paramore, cute is what we aim for, and FFTL.
or something like that.
i don't remember what the point i was trying to make is. i dunno if that made sense.
but the trend has been around for a longggggg time.

[Yes. And?]

Females (it is mainly females) will always boyband-ize certain acts. Just look at the Beatles.

[wewascontenders]

i'm pretty sure that blink was void of any punk elements after dude ranch.

[absolutecrunk]

I think what we can take from the modern music scene is that pop-punk is NOT a fad and bands like All Time Low and National Product will definitely be remembered throughout the annals of music as having a timeless sound and message.



heh.

[Yes. And?]

He'll be here all night, folks. He doesn't have a choice, it's either this or face irl in Detroit.

[SanePsychotic]

i think fall out boy are where the trend started, however i feel their decisions were ones of integrity. patrick stump has obvious influence from pop music and obviously prefers to sing that way. combine this to the way they were popularized by fueled by ramen, along with the soon-to-follow panic at the disco, paramore, and the academy is who are also really poppy, pretty soon it spreads exponentially.

He just said everything that I'm too tired to say.

[SanePsychotic]

And Brand New! Have you ever seen their fandom on livejournal? Creepy.

Yep. Creepsahoy!

[absolutecrunk]

He'll be here all night, folks. He doesn't have a choice, it's either this or face irl in Detroit.

Haha is that a counterpunch for the jab I took at Baltimore in that little thread a few hours ago?

[drummertobeat]

I think, in part, the move away from pop-punk into, well, whatever you can call it now, is driven as much by the presence of the fanbase as anything else. The kids that are enthusiastic about these bands either grew up on the massive interactive fanbase of pop acts like NSync or Backstreet or Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera, and the inroads that were made there allowed a similar fanbase to crop up around bands like FOB, MCR, and now kids like ATL or The Cab or whatever when the genre of mainstream music shifted focus, like it inevitably does.

[Chris Fallon]

It will die off soon. It's all coming to a head.

[symbiote28]

yeah i agree .. but they sure as hell are catchy!

[Atalson]

It seems like this pop punk boy band thing has just exploded so that almost every new band you hear is just this complete replica of the same exact band they love and it is just so annoying, I can't even count how many bands i've seen that are a complete all time low and forever the sickest kids rip off. It is making me into a bitter old man about this new music scene. And if your gonna rip a band off, pick some good bands to rip off haha like new thrice but thats just my opinion.

[Until The Bombs]

Thing is, at least to this point, none of the really boy band sounding bands have actually gotten that big. They're really just myspace bands that get on decent sized tours.

[fadedmemories]

Ex. have you heard the cab's new album? Listen to songs like "Bounce" or "High Hopes in Velvet Ropes." Other bands pushing this, certainly the White Tie Affair, i saw their live show and i thought i was at nsyncs first performance. I don't know, maybe this comes from Patrick Stump, or Will Pugh gaining their notoriety. I have always been impressed by those guys. But i think pop(punk) bands are starting to see, oh, it pays to have a really good singer. Now they are adding these crazy harmonies and beats you would of never heard in the punk genre, with the DJ on stage with the sideways had, and the choreographed dance moves, guitarist blowing kissy faces at the crowd(again, see white tie affair live). Am i just being a douche? I feel kinda strange driving down the street blasting this stuff, i am just not secure enough for people to think i am listening to the Nsync reunion album?

Anyone else agree at all, see this trend?


some change can be good

and whenever there is a band that has a singer that is even remotely good looking, regardless of genre, expect that band to have a female fanbase

[Anesthetic]

The opposite is true for bands with a female singer who is good looking.

Paramore...

[xxxGarraxxx]

Ahhhh! i hate pop boy bands!

[xxxGarraxxx]

It will die off soon. It's all coming to a head.
I wish i could agree with you, but i can't bring myself to do so.

[TopGunAnthem]

Forever The Sickest Kids are definately in this boy band pop punk genre... but I do love that album :D.

The thing that sets these bands apart from boy bands like BSB and N'Sync is that FTSK and The Cab were all probably pop punk kids like us who grew up on blink 182 and green day and TBS and decided to start a band - maybe not a pop punk band, but a pop band.

Its because we grew up in an era where pop music was so bad, that people forgot back in the 60s, that kids our age started pop bands. Look at The Beatles... they started a pop band together as a bunch of bros and were the shit.

As long as the band, and the music, come from a real place, I can have respect for it - no matter how many huge harmonies it has.

The Cab definately do not have to defend themselves. As someone pointed out, they flat out say they are a pop band (we also forgot that pop artists who actaully play their own instruments and write their own songs can actaully exist), along the vein of Maroon 5.

I dig it.

[drummertobeat]

The thing that sets these bands apart from boy bands like BSB and N'Sync is that FTSK and The Cab were all probably pop punk kids like us who grew up on blink 182 and green day and TBS and decided to start a band - maybe not a pop punk band, but a pop band.

Yeah, and as you also pointed out, there's a difference between pop acts that write their own songs and play their own instruments to the acts that are manufactured otherwise--though I'd make an argument that the vocal skills of the manufactured pop acts is not something do be derided! That takes a lot of skill, especially if you're an entertainer who dances and sings simultaneously. That shit ain't easy.

But there's a categorical difference with kids who started their own band and wrote their own music, though that music happens to be pop.

I think I like the comparison of The Cab with Maroon 5 the more I think about it; whatever one can say about M5's music, you can't deny they're successful, and I think a band like The Cab would be lucky to have such a career.

[theguy77]

Yeah, and as you also pointed out, there's a difference between pop acts that write their own songs and play their own instruments to the acts that are manufactured otherwise--though I'd make an argument that the vocal skills of the manufactured pop acts is not something do be derided! That takes a lot of skill, especially if you're an entertainer who dances and sings simultaneously. That shit ain't easy.

But there's a categorical difference with kids who started their own band and wrote their own music, though that music happens to be pop.

I think I like the comparison of The Cab with Maroon 5 the more I think about it; whatever one can say about M5's music, you can't deny they're successful, and I think a band like The Cab would be lucky to have such a career.

1) this is true but most people who really indulge into music find innovation to be more respectable than just pure talent, esepcially since plenty of those innovative are musically talented to an extent as well. its not about what talents you have but what you do with them.

2) this is never a good argument. plenty of just bad musicians are successful because the majority of people who dont really care much for music will listen to whatever's on the radio and enjoy it.

[vanity kills]

I think, in part, the move away from pop-punk into, well, whatever you can call it now, is driven as much by the presence of the fanbase as anything else. The kids that are enthusiastic about these bands either grew up on the massive interactive fanbase of pop acts like NSync or Backstreet or Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera, and the inroads that were made there allowed a similar fanbase to crop up around bands like FOB, MCR, and now kids like ATL or The Cab or whatever when the genre of mainstream music shifted focus, like it inevitably does.

agreed.

[glasscase501]

It will die off soon. It's all coming to a head.

haven't people been saying that for the longest time now?

[kearn1tm]

Pop punk has become more and more pop and less punk ever since The Decedents. It was a steady progression.

Most definitely. In fact, pop has been an inherent staple of punk since the '70s, with bands like The Descendents, The Ramones and The Clash.

One of the facets of Pop Punk that always allowed the subgenre to dodge much of the same criticisms that pop music is subjected to is that there was the integrity, DIY ethics/mentality and fast/loud instrumentals/vocals that kept it true to it's punk lineage.

However, in recent years, with this faux-pop punk/powerpop explosion, with perfectly harmonized vocals that have been honed to digital infallibility and a interchangeable sound that's been so lifted from the mainstream Pop Punk explosion of the early '00s, it's quite clear every kid is picking up a guitar and a multi-colored hoodie and striving to put together that perfect "Fall Out Found Yellow Charlotte Is..." hook and the high-pitched, harmonized vocals, essentially losing the sincerity that the subgenre once had. Everyone's doing it, they're doing it the exact same way and it's now leaning much more toward the pop side of the scale and the accessibility that allows it to become a pop-culture phenomenon.

It seems incredibly difficult to "reverse engineer" contemporary Pop Punk back to its roots sonically, whereas Pop Punk and the Indie Emo of the mid '90s wore its influences on its proverbial sleeve.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

Pop punk has become more and more pop and less punk ever since The Descedents. It was a steady progression.

i think fall out boy are where the trend started, however i feel their decisions were ones of integrity. patrick stump has obvious influence from pop music and obviously prefers to sing that way. combine this to the way they were popularized by fueled by ramen, along with the soon-to-follow panic at the disco, paramore, and the academy is who are also really poppy, pretty soon it spreads exponentially.

i dont find that they have a boybandy sound to them at all. they were the jump for a lot of lame trends but not this one i dont think.

Part of the problem has also been complete misconceptions of what genres bands actually belong to. Looking at The Cab's myspace, they group themselves into the category of "Soul/Pop/Rock." No mention of punk.

no it started when people started making the melody the most important part, and crafting the music not for the sake of music but just to fit the melody.

QFT

[SubrosaSeductiv]

Most definitely. In fact, pop has been an inherent staple of punk since the '70s, with bands like The Descendents, The Ramones and The Clash.

One of the facets of Pop Punk that always allowed the subgenre to dodge much of the same criticisms that pop music is subjected to is that there was the integrity, DIY ethics/mentality and fast/loud instrumentals/vocals that kept it true to it's punk lineage.

However, in recent years, with this faux-pop punk/powerpop explosion, with perfectly harmonized vocals that have been honed to digital infallibility and a interchangeable sound that's been so lifted from the mainstream Pop Punk explosion of the early '00s, it's quite clear every kid is picking up a guitar and a multi-colored hoodie and striving to put together that perfect "Fall Out Found Yellow Charlotte Is..." hook and the high-pitched, harmonized vocals, essentially losing the sincerity that the subgenre once had. Everyone's doing it, they're doing it the exact same way and it's now leaning much more toward the pop side of the scale and the accessibility that allows it to become a pop-culture phenomenon.

It seems incredibly difficult to "reverse engineer" contemporary Pop Punk back to its roots sonically, whereas Pop Punk and the Indie Emo of the mid '90s wore its influences on its proverbial sleeve.

And I didn't see this till I posted, but I'll QFT. Modern recording technology is a blessing and a sin in the same body.

[kearn1tm]

The irony being that new Thrice rip offs a load of people. They were good at picking though for sure.

One of the reasons I enjoy bands like Brand New and Manchester Orchestra, despite being rather unsubtle about their influences is that they cherrypick their sound from some of the best, whereas many recent pop punk bands are so swayed by a hook and a chorus that they're all this synthetic blend of mainstream powerpop/pop punk bands. I've not heard much recent pop punk that didn't sound exactly like Boys Like Girls that didn't exactly sound like Paramore that didn't exactly sound like The Maine that didn't exactly sound like Tokyo Rose who all sound like Fall Out Boy, etc.

A thief steals from the richest. Pop Punk bands are the burglars who, instead of robbing a prominent band, rob from McDonalds.

[SLoT]

its all about what the girls want man. if they want harmonies or awesome hair cuts, that's what they're going to get. it has nothing to do with music.

[JimGray]

QFT

Last night I watched Spaceballs.

[SLoT]

It's also way way easier to write power pop music. 16/17/18 year olds can't just rip out sophisticated music but they can put power chords together you know?
true. although i will say that if youre a good songwriter im not one to judge how well you play. but i do understand what the OP was saying about the whole trend in general.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

Last night I watched Spaceballs.

Such a solid choice.

It's also way way easier to write power pop music. 16/17/18 year olds can't just rip out sophisticated music but they can put power chords together you know?

It's the same thing with punk and a lot of hardcore though. Shit is generally not even bar or power chords usually just dropped and barred with easy chugging rhythms.

Which is why I still don't get why you shit all over bands like Circa who actually have some different guitar work.

[drummertobeat]

But then I think you end up in an argument (one that can never be answered) over what constitutes "good" music. Is it music with complexity, or that has layers you can really detect and analyze? Or is it that song that, when it comes up on the radio or on shuffle, you can't turn it off--you turn it up and start singing at the top of your lungs. Both have merit, I think.

[theguy77]

It's also way way easier to write power pop music. 16/17/18 year olds can't just rip out sophisticated music but they can put power chords together you know?

this is kind of a contradiction of your (and probably the real) definition of "powerpop" given that the bands i listed are mildly sophisticated, far more than bands that really do just throw power chords together and maybe put a lead here and there.

[theguy77]

Such a solid choice.

It's the same thing with punk and a lot of hardcore though. Shit is generally not even bar or power chords usually just dropped and barred with easy chugging rhythms.

Which is why I still don't get why you shit all over bands like Circa who actually have some different guitar work.

and say anything.

hahahah i make the same points over and over when people bring this genre into conention.

[theguy77]

But then I think you end up in an argument (one that can never be answered) over what constitutes "good" music. Is it music with complexity, or that has layers you can really detect and analyze? Or is it that song that, when it comes up on the radio or on shuffle, you can't turn it off--you turn it up and start singing at the top of your lungs. Both have merit, I think.

i never find merit in radio music of this decade. poppy music, yes. pop music, no. pop music stopped being good awhile ago.

[Chris Fallon]

I wish i could agree with you, but i can't bring myself to do so.
Hair metal, grunge, nu-metal, boy bands ... they all died off as quick as they started.

Same trend, different day.

[what_ever]

no it started when people started making the melody the most important part, and crafting the music not for the sake of music but just to fit the melody.

yep.

[theguy77]

Some are, some aren't.

Blink sure as hell are. Even stuff like TAYF isn't hard stuff. Others like Say Anything are much more sophisticated.

yeah thats pretty true.

[Until The Bombs]

It's the same thing with punk and a lot of hardcore though. Shit is generally not even bar or power chords usually just dropped and barred with easy chugging rhythms.


Not all hardcore bands are created equal.

If you're referring to a more traditional hardcore sound then its more or less about the emotion that the music creates than the technical difficulty.

i never find merit in radio music of this decade. poppy music, yes. pop music, no. pop music stopped being good awhile ago.

Justin Timberlake?

[MrHandy]

One thing I've noticed that while earlier pop punk bands borrowed more from the beatles and the kinks and other '60s pop, new bands seem to borrow more from modern pop.

[vanity kills]

i love most of the bands that are this style, but i absolutely hate all the shit that is coming out like the secret handshake, owl city, etc. making your voice sound electronic at home with your laptop isn't talent. at all.

[vanity kills]

and the white tie affair is the closest thing i have heard to sounding like flat out pop music. i felt the same way listening to them as in the original post.

[Until The Bombs]

Agreed. 60's pop is way more complex than any modern pop punk band.

Which 60's pop bands are you referring to? I'm ignorant to all those but The Beatles. Going with The Beatles though, I don't find their early music anymore complex than those grouped into the pop punk category today.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

Not all hardcore bands are created equal.

If you're referring to a more traditional hardcore sound then its more or less about the emotion that the music creates than the technical difficulty.



Justin Timberlake?

Yeah hardcore is musically terrible but it's not about that.

No I know what you mean I am talking about a majority of it, especially today. I am a hardcore and pop-punk fan, I love both of those genres, new and old. So I really don't care, aside from the current Boys like Girls trend, every gimmick band like that irritates me.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

Which 60's pop bands are you referring to? I'm ignorant to all those but The Beatles. Going with The Beatles though, I don't find their early music anymore complex than those grouped into the pop punk category today.

The Beatles have some detailed work which is why their live shows (the very few of them) were pretty different from their recordings. It was hard to pull off a majority of their stuff live. I wasn't there to witness it, this is just what I am told.

[MrHandy]

Which 60's pop bands are you referring to? I'm ignorant to all those but The Beatles. Going with The Beatles though, I don't find their early music anymore complex than those grouped into the pop punk category today.


Well, like I said, there's also the kinks, and you could also consider a lot of Garage Rock bands 60s pop, and the rolling stones may or may not be considered pop.

[Until The Bombs]

The Beatles have some detailed work which is why their live shows (the very few of them) were pretty different from their recordings. It was hard to pull off a majority of their stuff live. I wasn't there to witness it, this is just what I am told.

When I think Beatles pop, I think "Twist and Shout," "Love Me Do," etc. Those songs aren't overly complex.

Well, like I said, there's also the kinks, and you could also consider a lot of Garage Rock bands 60s pop, and the rolling stones may or may not be considered pop.

Haven't ever really listened to The Kinks or even The Stones for that matter, but when I think of The Stones and garage rock, I don't think of complexity, nor do I really think of pop in it's purest sense. I'm sure someone can show me different, but I'm sure if I listed to more of today's pop punk I could find a complex song to counter it.

[MrHandy]

When I think Beatles pop, I think "Twist and Shout," "Love Me Do," etc. Those songs aren't overly complex.



Haven't ever really listened to The Kinks or even The Stones for that matter, but when I think of The Stones and garage rock, I don't think of complexity, nor do I really think of pop in it's purest sense. I'm sure someone can show me different, but I'm sure if I listed to more of today's pop punk I could find a complex song to counter it.

Well, I'm not saying it's complex, in fact Garage Rock is by definition amateurish, I'm just saying that older pop-punk bands had different influences that many consider better than the modern pop that the new ones seem to emulate.

[Until The Bombs]

Well, I'm not saying it's complex, in fact Garage Rock is by definition amateurish, I'm just saying that older pop-punk bands had different influences that many consider better than the modern pop that the new ones seem to emulate.

That's what I was question though, Ben said that 60's pop was more complex.

[MrHandy]

That's what I was question though, Ben said that 60's pop was more complex.

I see,

Well, you can say that old pop acts used to use guitars and wrote their own songs, though that's not really complexity.

[Foxholes]

It's also way way easier to write power pop music. 16/17/18 year olds can't just rip out sophisticated music but they can put power chords together you know?

I read a blog from a post-rock band that more or less said people new to music should start ambient/post-rock bands because it's easier writing those songs than pop songs. I have no opinion on this, but your post reminded me of it.

blog (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=33944834&blogID=335460129)

Damn The Cab is catchy btw.

[theguy77]

Agreed. 60's pop is way more complex than any modern pop punk band.

if the 60s pop you're referring to is all as complex as the beatles, then yes that would be true in nearly every instance.

[MrHandy]

Beach Boys, Beatles.

How are they more complex, though, is what he asked.

[handlikesecret]

personally, i like whatever it is. :shrug:

[Until The Bombs]

Yeah. So two albums don't make 60's pop more complex than today's pop punk.

[theguy77]

but there are also maybe 2 or 3 main albums that come into contention when debating the complexity of pop-punk so its sort of balanced actually.

[Foxholes]

Anyone have any thoughts on that blog I posted earlier?

[versus_god]

If you ignore it, it will go away.

[Foxholes]

When's there going to be a poppier version of garage rock? Or is The Hives as poppy as it gets?

[IWasaCamera]

Didn't have enough of The Von Bondies, The Vines, and all those other shitty garage rock revival bands?

[MrHandy]

When's there going to be a poppier version of garage rock? Or is The Hives as poppy as it gets?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Strokes

[MrHandy]

Didn't have enough of The Von Bondies, The Vines, and all those other shitty garage rock revival bands?

I like some garage-rock revival, especially the vines and the white stripes.

[Until The Bombs]

Wouldn't call The Strokes more poppy than the Hives.

[MrHandy]

Wouldn't call The Strokes more poppy than the Hives.

Well, I admit I've never hear The Hives, but the Strokes are about as poppy as can be.

[IWasaCamera]

I like some garage-rock revival, especially the vines and the white stripes.
Not a fan.

[Until The Bombs]

Well, I admit I've never hear The Hives, but the Strokes are about as poppy as can be.

Listen to the Hives and you'll probably retract that statement.

[Foxholes]

Ok what about pop-metalcore, and don't say Underoath or Alexisonfire...

[MrHandy]

Listen to the Hives and you'll probably retract that statement.

well listen to them on youtube, and my original statement stands, their guitars are harder than the strokes and so are the vocals.

[MrHandy]

Ok what about pop-metalcore, and don't say Underoath or Alexisonfire...


Well...

[Foxholes]

If metalcore would be played on the radio I guess.

[Until The Bombs]

well listen to them on youtube, and my original statement stands, their guitars are harder than the strokes and so are the vocals.

Harder yes, but I find them far more poppier than The Strokes.

[Yes. And?]

Haha is that a counterpunch for the jab I took at Baltimore in that little thread a few hours ago?
:nod:

[IWasaCamera]

They're equally accessible I'd say. The Vines are probably catchier than both of those.

[Until The Bombs]

They're equally accessible I'd say. The Vines are probably catchier than both of those.

Really? I've found The Vines to be significantly the worst of the three in quality. Enough that I'd hardly consider them catchy.

[Foxholes]

How is Deja pop at all? Do you write for Pitchfork by the way?

I have an idea! "Pop-post-rock," basically 3 minute EITS-ish songs you can dance to. Who's in?

[IWasaCamera]

Really? I've found The Vines to be significantly the worst of the three in quality. Enough that I'd hardly consider them catchy.
Their music seems so easy, as if they hummed up some catchy harmony and merely wrote fuzzy guitar parts over it. As I stated earlier though, I dislike the entire "genre".

[Until The Bombs]

Let's stack up the major records then.

On the one hand we have Revolver, Pet Sounds, Sgt Peppers, Nico.

On the other Enema of the State, Take This to Your Grave, Tell All Your Friends, Deja Entendu

The 60's wins hands down.

Far, far more advanced vocally and even much more experimental instrumentally.

Haha. Tried to slip that one by you.

Looking at things this way, your right. Although I'm not inclined to consider albums like Sgt. Pepper's pop, at least not in the sense that I thought we were talking about. And I plead the fifth with Pet Sounds and Nico and ultimately Revolver as it's been at least two years since I've listened to it.

Yeah, so to sum things up, I disagree, but hardly possess the ability to argue my side.

[Foxholes]

Deja isn't pop punk though.

[MrHandy]

Their music seems so easy, as if they hummed up some catchy harmony and merely wrote fuzzy guitar parts over it. As I stated earlier though, I dislike the entire "genre".

To all their own I guess.

[IWasaCamera]

I have an idea! "Pop-post-rock," basically 3 minute EITS-ish songs you can dance to. Who's in?
Dbag Delonge already tried his hand at that.

[Until The Bombs]

How is Deja pop at all? Do you write for Pitchfork by the way?

I have an idea! "Pop-post-rock," basically 3 minute EITS-ish songs you can dance to. Who's in?

Who is this guy?

Their music seems so easy, as if they hummed up some catchy harmony and merely wrote fuzzy guitar parts over it. As I stated earlier though, I dislike the entire "genre".

I never got that feeling from them. In fact, I felt exactly the opposite. I enjoyed a song or two, but to me it felt very forced. No different than Panic doing their best impressions of The Beatles. It was like The Vines were unsuccessfully trying really really hard to channel artists of the 60's/70's. I can't name a band in particular, but really just that vibe/period.

[IWasaCamera]

I never got that feeling from them. In fact, I felt exactly the opposite. I enjoyed a song or two, but to me it felt very forced. No different than Panic doing their best impressions of The Beatles. It was like The Vines were unsuccessfully trying really really hard to channel artists of the 60's/70's. I can't name a band in particular, but really just that vibe/period.
I don't mean that it came naturally to them but rather that the songwriting process wasn't exactly complex. They definitely sound like they're trying, which in my opinion is never something that should be discernible.

[Foxholes]

Used loosely. We all accept we are comparing albums from that scene, whichever arbitrary label you wish to ascribe to it.

Fair enough. Why are comparing 60s pop with today's pop punk though? Shouldn't we be comparing them with bands like Buzzcocks or The Ramones?

[Until The Bombs]

I don't mean that it came naturally to them but rather that the songwriting process wasn't exactly complex. They definitely sound like they're trying, which in my opinion is never something that should be discernible.

Alright I got you. Actually its a weird thing that their music came out sounding like they were trying given how fucked up their lead singer always seemed/was. I can't remember what's wrong with him. You would think he would just come into the studio, laid down a few riffs, then go off to whatever trouble he fancied.

[Foxholes]

Oh okay. When is pop-pop gonna happen? (I'll stop.)

To me I think pop-punk with a hardcore influence (ex. Four Year Strong) will soon be the next big thing. At least I hope it will be.

[MrHandy]

Fair enough. Why are comparing 60s pop with today's pop punk though? Shouldn't we be comparing them with bands like Buzzcocks or The Ramones?

And where did those bands get their pop influence?

[Foxholes]

And where did those bands get their pop influence?

Well do you think current pop-punk bands are influenced more by The Beatles or The Ramones?

[IWasaCamera]

Alright I got you. Actually its a weird thing that their music came out sounding like they were trying given how fucked up their lead singer always seemed/was. I can't remember what's wrong with him. You would think he would just come into the studio, laid down a few riffs, then go off to whatever trouble he fancied.
He has some illness I can't remember the name of. Made him act out apparently.

[Foxholes]

Oh I was talking about Blink, Green Day, NFG type pop-punk. Not All Time Low and friends, where do their influences lie?