Jimmy Eat World - Bleed American (Discussion Thread)

[TheOtherAndrew]

Picking up the deluxe edition of this album today inspired me to make a thread.

A few notes:

-The title track is one of the greatest punk rock songs ever. No bullshit.

-The production on this album blows me the fuck away on many occasions, especially on "Cautioners" and "My Sundown." Its not quite as good as the production on Futures or Chase This Light in my opinion but its a fantastic sounding record.

-"Hear You Me" is one of the most powerful songs Jimmy Eat World has written, up there with "23."

-Personally, "Your House" is one of my favorite songs of all time, and "Your House 2007" is beautiful and worth paying for the deluxe edition.

-"If You Don't, Don't" is beautiful and vastly underrated.

-For some reason, there is a large group of people who insist that the demo version of "Sweetness" (from the deluxe version of Clarity) is better than the version that appeared on this album. I'm gonna have to absolutely disagree. The vocals on the album version are pretty much perfect, and the production is much, much better.

-"The Authority Song" never fails to put a smile on my face.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/Saltlick/Sub3/Jimmy_Bleed.jpg

Discuss away.

[AP_Punk]

Haven't picked up the deluxe edition yet. Great album, first one I heard by JEW. I love the whole thing from start to finish.

[allhourcymbals]

This is the one of the first albums I went out and bought by myself when I was first 'discovering music'. Still love it.

[andrewshungry]

i couldn't find the deluxe edition in stores the other day.

can we not forget "a praise chorus" please, the song that made me love this band.

[jenniferlee]

-For some reason, there is a large group of people who insist that the demo version of "Sweetness" (from the deluxe version of Clarity) is better than the version that appeared on this album. I'm gonna have to absolutely disagree. The vocals on the album version are pretty much perfect, and the production is much, much better.





I couldn't agree more...and am glad to see someone else feels the same way

[airik625]

I completely forgot the Deluxe Edition was coming out soon. Yay.

[loveisdead]

I don't know if I'd say this is my favorite Jimmy album, but it's definitely up there. The deluxe edition is pretty cool and definitely reminded me how great this album is.

[3mpire]

Need the new Your House..

The album is phenomenal.

And the Demo > Album version of Sweetness. :-)

[TheOtherAndrew]

And the Demo > Album version of Sweetness. :-)
Why? Explain this to me please.

[Genuma]

Now we don't have to use CRG's thread. :party:

[3mpire]

Why? Explain this to me please.

I think it's the vocal melody. I just prefer it to the one on the album. Sounds and works way better.

[TheOtherAndrew]

I think it's the vocal melody. I just prefer it to the one on the album. Sounds and works way better.
See I feel exactly the opposite. Oh well.

[3mpire]

See I feel exactly the opposite. Oh well.

Well there you have it. :shrug:

[Chris Fallon]

Reminds me of my senior year in high school because it was all my friends and I listened to.

Futures remains my favorite though.

[fightfightfight]

-The production on "Cautioners" is so nice. I love the little swells at the end during the final chorus refrain. It's just so sublime.
-The loops/layers at the end of "Your House.
-The organ during the end of "Hear You Me".
-Using "timely handclaps" and finger snaps in a way that isn't completley irritating.

Small touches like these really make this record a personal favorite of mine. Jimmy is so good at piling up these layers of melody and harmony

"What's wrong baby, don't they treat you like they should?" is such a good opening line to song after the reverse delay intro in "If You Don't, Don't". I agree that it is criminally underrated.

[chipdip18]

This album will probably be hailed as a classic of our generation.

[Colorblind!]

That's because it is a classic of our generation.

[chipdip18]

Perhaps it's a bit too early to call it classic? hmm?

[Regards]

Not really, becuase it is.

[chipdip18]

i vote we give it a full decade first.

[IWasaCamera]

Really, a classic?

[chipdip18]

what do you think about the album?

[IWasaCamera]

Don't care for it.

[hailthewarrior]

I have to listen to this album in it's entirety every time, but "Your House", "Sweetness" and "Hear You Me" are definitely my favorites.

The quality on this CD is top notch, and JEW is probably one of, it not the best mainstream rock acts around today.

[chipdip18]

Well, i didn't think it would be down your alley. haha. I think it is a great pop punk album, by far JEW's poppiest album. But then again i didn't give Big Casino a try so that statement is not valid.

[theguy77]

for the 24678207th time:

CAUTIONERS IS JIMMY EAT WORLD'S BEST SONG. (very closely followed by 23)

sooo emotionally driven.



this is without a doubt one of the best pop-rock albums out there by my fairly specific definition of pop-rock, a lot of quality songs, the only issue i have is that in a few songs the hooks are repeated too much but they're good hooks nonetheless so that doesnt matter. futures is better htough cause bleed american doesnt really have any flow to it, and futures feels like more of an album experience.

[chipdip18]

I agree with the flow idea. I love The Authority Song though. Such a summer song.

[bowl of oranges]

what does the deluxe edition come with?

[HugoR]

I will definitely pick this deluxe version. Bleed American was the first alternative CD I bought and I've listened to it so many times that when I listened to it again the last time, even though I haven't played it for years, I still remembered all the lyrics.

[WakeUpBlondie]

This album is truely a timeless album. I bought it in 2001 when I was 10 (my brother made me buy it instead of nsync) and I didn't listen to it again till 06, and I probably play it a couple times a week. never gets old

[Dr. Acula]

Picking up the deluxe edition of this album today inspired me to make a thread.

A few notes:

-The title track is one of the greatest punk rock songs ever. No bullshit.

-The production on this album blows me the fuck away on many occasions, especially on "Cautioners" and "My Sundown." Its not quite as good as the production on Futures or Chase This Light in my opinion but its a fantastic sounding record.

-"Hear You Me" is one of the most powerful songs Jimmy Eat World has written, up there with "23."

-Personally, "Your House" is one of my favorite songs of all time, and "Your House 2007" is beautiful and worth paying for the deluxe edition.

-"If You Don't, Don't" is beautiful and vastly underrated.

-For some reason, there is a large group of people who insist that the demo version of "Sweetness" (from the deluxe version of Clarity) is better than the version that appeared on this album. I'm gonna have to absolutely disagree. The vocals on the album version are pretty much perfect, and the production is much, much better.

-"The Authority Song" never fails to put a smile on my face.


I'll agree with most of the points you've made but I still dont understand the people who tell me Chase This Light has better production then Bleed American/Futures. Too many bells and whistles and Jim's vocals...something about the production/mixing annoys the shit out of me but thats the beauty of opinion I guess

Anyway, I love this album. One of the better pop/rock albums of the last 10 years.

[theguy77]

Nothing about this is classic or even close.

i bet there are more educated opinions who will call bleed american a classic than those who will call yankee hotel foxtrot a classic. bleed american is not at all classic by means of creativity but if we're talking about the huge genre of pop-rock, it absolutely holds a prominent position in this day and age.

[Osto]

Personally I enjoy Clarity and Futures significantly more than Bleed American. I enjoy it though.

[Until The Bombs]

Bleed American is a classic within it's genre.

[flash_gorton]

I used to listen to this in middle school all the time, I still love it.

This and Futures are my favorites.

[TheOtherAndrew]

for the 24678207th time:

CAUTIONERS IS JIMMY EAT WORLD'S BEST SONG. (very closely followed by 23)

sooo emotionally driven.
Its definitely up there. The layering is amazing.
I agree with the flow idea. I love The Authority Song though. Such a summer song.
:nod:
1. If JEW have a classic anything which they don't it's Clarity.
Both Futures and Bleed American are better than Clarity, which is admittedly amazing, but intensely overrated. I'd say as far as lacking a coherent flow, Clarity is the worst offender next to Static Prevails.
what does the deluxe edition come with?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleed_American
I'll agree with most of the points you've made but I still dont understand the people who tell me Chase This Light has better production then Bleed American/Futures. Too many bells and whistles and Jim's vocals...something about the production/mixing annoys the shit out of me but thats the beauty of opinion I guess

Anyway, I love this album. One of the better pop/rock albums of the last 10 years.
I've always found the production on Chase This Light to be amazing, but Futures tops all in that category. I'm a fan of Butch Vig, what can I say?
Bleed American is a classic within it's genre.
Yes.

[El_Jeffe]

jimmy eat world is to me a band that does very little revolutionary, but do what they do rather well. actually don't mind this album, but seldom seem to listen. don't know why it receives so much hate at times, i guess cause it followed clarity (which even seems to get hate now, what the..!). besides "polaris", futures did very little for me, didn't like the overall sound. way way too polished on the softer songs, it really took away from any organic beauty of them

[theguy77]

how can you call futures overpolished but bleed american not? they both are on a similar level, and these are two of the VERY RARE albums in which i think it actually works for them. i do like my music to be fairly polished but that usually applies to the mixing stage, once you get to mastering i hate for it to be overdone with all the reverb and cleaning up every track for sparkling crystal sound etc. etc.

[El_Jeffe]

how can you call futures overpolished but bleed american not? they both are on a similar level, and these are two of the VERY RARE albums in which i think it actually works for them. i do like my music to be fairly polished but that usually applies to the mixing stage, once you get to mastering i hate for it to be overdone with all the reverb and cleaning up every track for sparkling crystal sound etc. etc.

bleed american is polished, no doubt. but futures was not only polished, but has that horrid "spacey" sound/vibe to it as well, & that (to me) really really didn't work on their slower songs. it was so overdone it sort of stripped any emotion from the songs. for me anyway

[theguy77]

bleed american is polished, no doubt. but futures was not only polished, but has that horrid "spacey" sound/vibe to it as well, & that (to me) really really didn't work on their slower songs. it was so overdone it sort of stripped any emotion from the songs. for me anyway

yeah i agree with you and know exactly what you're getting at here, this is exactly what im talking about when i dont like the mastering process to be overdone giving each track like the optimum amount of space and clearness. but again i feel both albums have that spacey feel, its just more obvious in futures because the songwriting has less of just rhythm guitar driving it and more of independent guitar parts working together, you can hear the separation more.

[3mpire]

Well, i didn't think it would be down your alley. haha. I think it is a great pop punk album, by far JEW's poppiest album. But then again i didn't give Big Casino a try so that statement is not valid.

Nah, their poppiest is Chase This Light.

[2 fly and shy]

Not my favorite JEW album (I prefer Futures), but it is still nonetheless a great pop-rock record.

A Praise Chorus is a nostalgia trip, for sure.

[xxemo_kittyxx]

I picked this up in 8th grade or something like that, when I still listened to simple plan and yellowcard and all those other MTV bands. I never got bored of this record, and I still listen to it despite all the taste shifts I had. It's definitely a classic.

[theguy77]

Pop rock has already forgotten it. No one is influenced by or cares about this album anymore, if they have had classic work it is Clarity.

are you kidding?

Wilco on the other hand remain insanely influential and YHF usually considered one of the best albums of the 2000's.

maybe by those who blow pitchfork.

The only people who have ever cared about this album or band is people from within the scene. Wilco and that album however are influential and reknowned throughout music not just the indie scene.

i disagree with your opinions on the lasting power of JEW's influence.

[alice+interiors]

okay guys, I think it's time I tried JEW again.
is this the best album to start with?

[theguy77]

to start, yeah, i'd say. futures is better though.

[theguy77]

No I am right. Show me bands that are trying to sound like this. They don't exist and never have. People know and like JEW but aside from Clarity no one has really tried to sound like them.

People have this crazy aside in this scene that JEW are this really respected awesome band. It's bullshit. Most people outside think they are safe bland pop rock or that they are okay for what they do.

i bet i could find 50 people fairly easily who will agree with me on JEW being easily one of the best ultra-polished pop-rock bands out there.

[alice+interiors]

to start, yeah, i'd say. futures is better though.

:-)
on it.

[loserkidchad]

When I try to somehow calculate what my favorite album of all-time is,..
Bleed American is always the first to come to mind.
To put it simply, I fucking love this record with all of my heart.

[Regards]

are you kidding?



maybe by those who blow pitchfork.



i disagree with your opinions on the lasting power of JEW's influence.
I lol'd.
okay guys, I think it's time I tried JEW again.
is this the best album to start with?
Go with Bleed America. You won't regret it.
When I try to somehow calculate what my favorite album of all-time is,..
Bleed American is always the first to come to mind.
To put it simply, I fucking love this record with all of my heart.
Its definately one of the first albums that got me into rock music period.

[TheOtherAndrew]

maybe by those who blow pitchfork.
hahahaha

[2 fly and shy]

lunchforthesky: I'd have to disagree with you on the influence factor. For a lot of young artists, JEW was their introduction to that kind of music. Ask most vocalists/songwriters in current pop-punk or "emo" bands who their favorite/most influential singers are, and I can almost guarantee Jim Adkins is in their top 5. There may not be a bunch of bands trying to completely emulate their style, but the influence is definitely there.

Comparing them to Wilco is also kind of silly. What exactly is your point? Sure, a ton of people love Wilco, but it's primarily the SPIN/Pitchfork crowd. They both have big crossover appeal, but their core audiences are much different. Apples to oranges.

Perhaps Bleed American didn't have as much impact in the UK as it did here. When that album came out, fucking EVERYONE here was listening to it.

[2 fly and shy]

If you aren't sounding like them then you aren't influenced, you just listen to them.

This is simply not true. You don't have to sound like what you're influenced by. If you do, that's called emulation. Influence comes in many forms. One of Alkaline Trio's initial main influences was Ani Difranco. Can you find any similarities in their sound? Daryl Palumbo credits Morissey and Fugazi as big early Glassjaw influences, but you'd be hard-pressed to find any obvious connections.


They are more popular here then in America comparitively. They would never support or share with TBS here.

That is more likely because they are from the US and sparingly play shows over there. Most artists play bigger shows in the UK than they do here because UK fans don't get as many opportunities to see them.

[3mpire]

If you aren't sounding like them then you aren't influenced, you just listen to them.

Wait, what. Most artists are influenced by music outside of the genre they're playing in.

[Chris Fallon]

Oh goodness...

[x togepi x]

this album will always be a classic for people that love the shit out of bland, generic garbage. why reason with them that it's not? you can't...they think post-Clarity Jimmy Eat World is good. You have a bigger chance convincing my cat that there aren't moral absolutes.

[2 fly and shy]

That is such a black-and-white way of looking at it. There is more to influence than the sound itself. A certain feeling can be an influence. The way a vocalist stylizes the end of a phrase can be an influence. A rhythm can be an influence.

Maybe you have a very basic view of how it works, but that certainly doesn't apply to everyone.

[TheOtherAndrew]

this album will always be a classic for people that love the shit out of bland, generic garbage. why reason with them that it's not? you can't...they think post-Clarity Jimmy Eat World is good. You have a bigger chance convincing my cat that there aren't moral absolutes.
Easy there

[2 fly and shy]

A drumbeat can influence a guitar riff. If your ears are so acute that you could consistently pick out nuances that small, you deserve a round of applause.

Everything is influenced by something. Ideas don't just materialize out of thin air. Everything comes from somewhere else, but not everything is a flat-out copy of something else.

It's also not just restricted to the music itself; the idea of the music can have just as much of an impact. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of young people that decided to play guitar when they heard Bleed American. That doesn't mean that their guitar playing would be based off of what that album sounds like, but it inspired them to play anything at all in the first place. Influence without emulation.

[TheOtherAndrew]

Discussions like this about influence will just go nowhere, really. Regardless of influence, its always been a fun, enjoyable record to me.

[IWasaCamera]

People have this crazy aside in this scene that JEW are this really respected awesome band. It's bullshit. Most people outside think they are safe bland pop rock or that they are okay for what they do.
this album will always be a classic for people that love the shit out of bland, generic garbage. why reason with them that it's not? you can't...they think post-Clarity Jimmy Eat World is good. You have a bigger chance convincing my cat that there aren't moral absolutes.
Two best posts in this thread.

[Dr. Acula]

I've always found the production on Chase This Light to be amazing, but Futures tops all in that category. I'm a fan of Butch Vig, what can I say?

I love Butch's production from AFI's Sing the Sorrow to Against Me's New Wave to Nirvana and everything else inbetween but Butch didnt produce Chase This Light...he just oversaw it...gave some advice. JEW produced the album with Chris Testa.

[TheOtherAndrew]

I love Butch's production from AFI's Sing the Sorrow to Against Me's New Wave to Nirvana and everything else inbetween but Butch didnt produce Chase This Light...he just oversaw it...gave some advice. JEW produced the album with Chris Testa.
Ah, gotcha.

[Talib Scottie]

My third favorite JEW album, which means I still enjoy it, a lot.

I just haven't gotten excited about hearing "Bleed American" or "Get it Faster" in years.

"Hear You Me," "My Sundown," "Cautioners" and "A Praise Chorus" will always be favorites, though.

[theguy77]

Ah Ryan so now you're going to do what you always do and reinvent your case so it fits extremely narrow parameters making it impossible for you to be wrong?

Who else exactly is in this ultra polished pop rock genre? Mae? Anberlin? Relient K? Paramore? You sure showed me by sticking JEW up against horrible, horrible bands and claiming they are awesome because they triumph.

i didnt reinvent my case that was the case the whole time, you're the one who said "pop-rock has already forgotten bleed american", the argument started on the basis that it was a classic in its genre, people were saying that before you had to come in here and rain on our picnic. congratulations you made my sandwich wet im and watered down my soda im still eating my lunch.

/stupid metaphor to lighten the mood :-D

besides weezer are also in the modern pop-rock genre you consider to be largely comprised of shit yet you never hesitate to consider pinkerton a classic.

[SubrosaSeductiv]

Futuresssssssssssssss.

[x togepi x]

i like how the claim jimmy eat world hasn't really influenced anyone went completely ignored. you'd think if they were such a big influence that we could find obvious examples.

[theguy77]

I wouldn't consider Weezer to be similar to JEW. Maybe as a broad pop rock genre but they are coming from different areas. Weezer's music is derived from The Beatles, The Beach Boys and so forth where as Jimmy Eat World is from Jawbreaker and Blink 182.

yeah but jimmy eat world are still not from relient k, mae, or anberlin. but just because the influence is different doesnt mean you can separate them, they're still both pop-rock bands with a genre-similar style to their music. weezer are not "above" pop-rock they're just one of the better bands in it.

[theguy77]

i like how the claim jimmy eat world hasn't really influenced anyone went completely ignored. you'd think if they were such a big influence that we could find obvious examples.

no it didnt there are several of us making the case that there is a difference between influence and emulation, that you dont have to sound anything like a band to be influenced by them. i am HEAVILY influenced by brand new as most of you can tell but my band's music sounds nothing like theirs.

[punkpixie]

I might sound absolutely ridiculous for saying this but I think this is actually my favourite album. Ever. I'm not saying it's the best album ever recorded or anything, but to me its the best. I bought it at just the right time in my life and listened to it non-stop for about 6 months. Then everything I bought afterwards I would compare to this.

I still listen to it now and even though I've changed it makes me feel the same as it always did. It's just fucking brilliant on so many levels. It might be pop music, but its the some of the best pop music there is. They have never bettered this album as far as I am concerned.

Now people are gonna argue and say 'you haven't heard enough music then' but I really don't care. haha

[x togepi x]

no it didnt there are several of us making the case that there is a difference between influence and emulation, that you dont have to sound anything like a band to be influenced by them. i am HEAVILY influenced by brand new as most of you can tell but my band's music sounds nothing like theirs.

instead of wasting your time typing long posts about the "difference" between influence and emulation, you could have easily just listed some bands influenced by jimmy eat world to prove your point. You guys are just skirting the issue through semantics.

[char]

Almost every pop-rock album that comes out of this scene has has been influenced by Bleed American or Clarity. The more talented ones tend to show more Clarity influence, while the less adventurous ones use Bleed American.

Some bands I can think of off the top of my head:

Acceptance
Anberlin
As Tall As Lions
Augustana
Biffy Clyro
Brand New
Copeland
Dear and the Headlights
Death Cab
The Format
The Graduate
Lydia
Midtown
Mock Orange
Motion City Soundtrack
The New Frontiers
Paramore
Reubens Accomplice
Say Anything
Straylight Run


Of course, most of these bands, from an objective perspective, aren't very good. But that doesn't necessarily mean the original itself was poor. Tons of great, important albums have spawned awful copies. Nevermind comes to mind immediately.

Also, the implication that no one outside of the "scene" thinks Clarity is a classic is just flat out wrong. As people who grew up with Clarity have aged and become the next generation of Pitchfork-writing, blogging elitists, they've generally held on to their love and respect for that album (admittingly, they disown anything the band has done afterwards). In a way, they are similar to the Afghan Whigs, a band who was trashed by many elitists during their lifespan, but now is respected because the younger generation that never quite understood why they were hated have become the new elitists. Read the Stylus review of the Clarity reissue for proof of this. Even the guy who trashed Futures for Pitchfork admitted in a email to JEW board members that he loved Clarity and SP.

Oh yeah, and just to throw a controversial statement in here, because the hate for Clarity in this thread is hilariously misguided: As an album, Clarity is superior to both Blue and Pinkerton, and holds its own with YHF (lyrically, YHF is far superior, but it suffers from an uninteresting first half aside from 'I Am Trying...').

As for BA, it's a good pop album. It's diverse and the songwriting is solid. Is it a classic when looking at music as a whole? Nah, probably not. But it's a spectacular intro to good music, because it's immediate and easy for a new listener to fall in love with, and usually then leads to the person discovering Clarity, and other albums like it. Not a classic from an objective perspective, but as a gateway album it's near flawless.

[2 fly and shy]

instead of wasting your time typing long posts about the "difference" between influence and emulation, you could have easily just listed some bands influenced by jimmy eat world to prove your point. You guys are just skirting the issue through semantics.

I wasn't skirting the issue in the least bit. lunchforthesky said that a band can only claim another band's influence if there is an audibly clear similarity in their sound. I think I presented a pretty well thought-out argument as to why that isn't true.

Also, lol @ the comment about JEW's sound being derived from blink 182, since I remember Tom DeLonge stating several times that JEW was one of his biggest influences.

[x togepi x]

the only band i've seen in that list that is influenced by bleed american is paramore.

[x togepi x]

I wasn't skirting the issue in the least bit. lunchforthesky said that a band can only claim another band's influence if there is an audibly clear similarity in their sound. I think I presented a pretty well thought-out argument as to why that isn't true.

Also, lol @ the comment about JEW's sound being derived from blink 182, since I remember Tom DeLonge stating several times that JEW was one of his biggest influences.

that is the only way you can use the word influence and it actually mean something concrete. nobody's denying that you can be "influenced" by something to write a song, join a band or whatever. like, hearing mc5 made me want to start playing guitar, yet i wouldn't call mc5 one of my band's influences because you can't hear it.

you're right when you say influence=/= emulation, but just because you can hear a little bit of jimmy eat world in a song by another band doesn't mean they're emulating them. it just means you can draw a little historical line back in the sound.

[2 fly and shy]

I understand your point, togepi. But that back and forth between me and lunchforthesky happened because he said that:

1. no band has ever been influenced by this album
2. nobody gives a shit about this album anymore

Both are grossly exaggerated claims. Of course there are plenty of bands influenced by JEW (even post-Clarity) and there is obviously a ton of people that still love this album and continue to enjoy it.

[char]

haha wooah what?

Biffy Clyro? They have been around longer than JEW have. This list is a joke. Most of these bands were in bands before Bleed American came out playing what they play now.

Since when has anything Brand New have done been influenced by JEW?

The only legit ones here are Paramore and Lydia that I know.

Biffy Clyro has admitted to being huge fans of Clarity and I can hear it in the harmonies.

'Millstone' off Devil and God for Brand New. Alot of Deja has some Clarity in it mixed with all the indie influences.

By the way, I am more referring to Clarity influences because it is undeniably more influential than BA. If you cannot hear Clarity in Straylight's debut, most of Anberlin's slower songs, Copeland's Eat, Sleep, Repeat, and all the Arizona bands on that list, I question whether you have ears. Especially Straylight. Their debut was basically an attempt to remake Clarity.

[x togepi x]

Biffy Clyro has admitted to being huge fans of Clarity and I can hear it in the harmonies.

'Millstone' off Devil and God for Brand New. Alot of Deja has some Clarity in it mixed with all the indie influences.

By the way, I am more referring to Clarity influences because it is undeniably more influential than BA. If you cannot hear Clarity in Straylight's debut, most of Anberlin's slower songs, Copeland's Eat, Sleep, Repeat, and all the Arizona bands on that list, I question whether you have ears. Especially Straylight. Their debut was basically an attempt to remake Clarity.

You're arguing with someone who said that Clarity was the only really influential album they did. he's contending that Bleed American really doesn't have an influence, hence him bringing up how most of those bands existed before Bleed American came out. Jimmy Eat World has influenced some bands, obviously, i just don't think it's Bleed American-era.

[char]

You're arguing with someone who said that Clarity was the only really influential album they did. he's contending that Bleed American really doesn't have an influence, hence him bringing up how most of those bands existed before Bleed American came out. Jimmy Eat World has influenced some bands, obviously, i just don't think it's Bleed American-era.

You are correct, now that I look back. My post was more of a direct response to this post of yours.


i like how the claim jimmy eat world hasn't really influenced anyone went completely ignored. you'd think if they were such a big influence that we could find obvious examples.

[x togepi x]

You are correct, now that I look back. My post was more of a direct response to this post of yours.

and in context, i was just supporting his claim that bleed american didn't really influence anybody.

[char]

and in context, i was just supporting his claim that bleed american didn't really influence anybody.

Understandable. My fault.

Although I do feel like, due to the fact that BA was one of the first "scene emo" albums to break the mainstream (along with early Dashboard), it was influential in the sense that it opened the genre to many more people, many of which started bands and whatnot. More of an indirect than direct influence.

[x togepi x]

Understandable. My fault.

Although I do feel like, due to the fact that BA was one of the first "scene emo" albums to break the mainstream (along with early Dashboard), it was influential in the sense that it opened the genre to many more people, many of which started bands and whatnot.

I don't think this counts. Bleed American was looked as a pop punk album when it dropped. Any emo tag comes from the Clarity days. Besides, if we want to talk about fake emo's influence, we're really going to be talking about the influence of the major labels and their marketing complex more so than we are going to be talking about specific bands as "emo" in this sense is a meaningless term since it's been applied to almost every popular band tangentially related to punk music since 2002.

[char]

I don't think this counts. Bleed American was looked as a pop punk album when it dropped. Any emo tag comes from the Clarity days. Besides, if we want to talk about fake emo's influence, we're really going to be talking about the influence of the major labels and their marketing complex more so than we are going to be talking about specific bands as "emo" in this sense is a meaningless term since it's been applied to almost every popular band tangentially related to punk music since 2002.

Agreed that it's been referred to almost every popular band related to punk since 2002, but as a result of BA, Jimmy Eat World was one of the, if not the first. Blame it on the majors and MTV, but BA was a key point in hijacking of the term "emo" for the mainstream, although I certainly wouldn't blame the band. In any case, there's a big difference between goofy Blink-182 style pop-punk and most of the lyrical focus of BA, and the industry took full advantage of that.

[x togepi x]

Agreed that it's been referred to almost every popular band related to punk since 2002, but as a result of BA, Jimmy Eat World was one of the, if not the first. Blame it on the majors and MTV, but BA was a key point in hijacking of the term "emo" for the mainstream, although I certainly wouldn't blame the band. In any case, there's a big difference between goofy Blink-182 style pop-punk and most of the lyrical focus of BA, and the industry took full advantage of that.

but that's not bleed american's influence, that's the creation of a trend. if bleed american hadn't come out, they would have just used another album like something corporate or starting line. when we're talking influence we're saying that album X and only album X was the cause, which you can't really stick onto jimmy eat world because there are few other bands doing pretty much the same thing at the time.

the fact that everything got labeled as emo in the early 00's backs up my point. bleed american wasn't necessary, any album coming out in this trend would have worked. if bleed american was the influence, then you would have seen only seen bands sounding like them being called emo.

[char]

but that's not bleed american's influence, that's the creation of a trend. if bleed american hadn't come out, they would have just used another album like something corporate or starting line. when we're talking influence we're saying that album X and only album X was the cause, which you can't really stick onto jimmy eat world because there are few other bands doing pretty much the same thing at the time.

the fact that everything got labeled as emo in the early 00's backs up my point. bleed american wasn't necessary, any album coming out in this trend would have worked. if bleed american was the influence, then you would have seen only seen bands sounding like them being called emo.

Not saying it was the sole album, but it was one of the key early ones. And due to the fact that it exploded on pop radio moreso than most of its peers, I would guess that it probably did more to bring new people not necessarily predisposed to the genre into the fold than say, Something Corporate.

But I see your point.

[x togepi x]

it didn't really "explode", it got a couple summer hits, but any sunny pop album is going to do that. the difference between them and something corporate was what label they were on. "hurricane" off leaving through the window had just as much potential as anything on bleed american, but they didn't get the push that jimmy eat world did.

[char]

it didn't really "explode", it got a couple summer hits, but any sunny pop album is going to do that. the difference between them and something corporate was what label they were on. "hurricane" off leaving through the window had just as much potential as anything on bleed american, but they didn't get the push that jimmy eat world did.

Agreed, but the fact remains that due to circumstance it did not reach as many people.

Now we're just discussing semantics. Let's end this and hand it back to the BA Appreciation people.

[theguy77]

instead of wasting your time typing long posts about the "difference" between influence and emulation, you could have easily just listed some bands influenced by jimmy eat world to prove your point. You guys are just skirting the issue through semantics.

no you cant easily list bands influenced by jimmy eat world because there are rarely definitive tells that one band is influenced by another.

[theguy77]

Okay let's study the chronology here. Firstly nothing JEW has ever written sounds a thing like Blink did except maybe Bleed American and the TOYPAJ days but let's see, oh they came out the same damn year so no go there.

JEW on the other hand went pop in 2001. Two years after Enema of the State came out and pop punk got massive so what did JEW do in those two years between Clarity and Bleed American, they listened to Blink and mixed that with Clarity.

again no proof of the link between blink 182 and JEW. if you're doing it on the basis of "i hear it in there", thats clearly your opinion because i dont hear blink in JEW at all.

[x togepi x]

no you cant easily list bands influenced by jimmy eat world because there are rarely definitive tells that one band is influenced by another.

yes there are, you can hear influence. your conception of influence makes it meaningless. i might as well list things in my bands influences like a conversation i had with a girl once, or the time my cat slept on its back and it was cute.

[theguy77]

yes there are, you can hear influence. your conception of influence makes it meaningless. i might as well list things in my bands influences like a conversation i had with a girl once, or the time my cat slept on its back and it was cute.

my conception does not make influence meaningness, it makes speculation on influence subjective, which it is. for example the things ben hears in certain artists, i dont hear at all.

[x togepi x]

my conception does not make influence meaningness, it makes speculation on influence subjective, which it is. for example the things ben hears in certain artists, i dont hear at all.

we're not talking about subjective influences. we're talking about how they're used when a band says "these are our influences". once again, this is an example of you playing with semantics.

[theguy77]

we're not talking about subjective influences. we're talking about how they're used when a band says "these are our influences". once again, this is an example of you playing with semantics.

right so im supposed to go look at every myspace and every interview in the world and make a list for you.

nah im fine bickering semantics.

[x togepi x]

you haven't given any examples. If Bleed American was such a "classic", you think you'd be able to come up with a couple off the top of your head.

[theguy77]

you'd think i would but i cant. i cant think of anyone who said they were influenced by the get up kids even though they definitely were one of the more influential for the modern pop-rock scene as well.

[x togepi x]

you'd think i would but i cant. i cant think of anyone who said they were influenced by the get up kids even though they definitely were one of the more influential for the modern pop-rock scene as well.

they don't have to say it, if you can hear it in their music, it's an influence. like for the get up kids, i can see a band like Motion City Soundtrack being influenced.

or you could say the growing trend of synths in "pop punk" can be attributed to the band. as well as many bands that are influenced by Clarity era jimmy eat world.

[theguy77]

im pretty sure the graduate are really influenced by JEW but im bored with this argument so i'll leave you to your point. i just call it a classic in its genre on the basis of its very prominent position and mass of admiration on a scale of those who listen to several different scenes of rock music.

my friend will had another point about them bouncing back from getting dropped hard from their label, how you would think their music career was over but then they put out bleed american by themselves and it turned out to be the album that put them on the mainstream :shrug: that gives it a pretty high status considering how important JEW are now.

[x togepi x]

im pretty sure the graduate are really influenced by JEW but im bored with this argument so i'll leave you to your point. i just call it a classic in its genre on the basis of its very prominent position and mass of admiration on a scale of those who listen to several different scenes of rock music.

my friend will had another point about them bouncing back from getting dropped hard from their label, how you would think their music career was over but then they put out bleed american by themselves and it turned out to be the album that put them on the mainstream :shrug: that gives it a pretty high status considering how important JEW are now.

what mass admiration? the people who hype the fuck out of this album are pop rock kids.

[theguy77]

It's obvious through chronology.

only if you put JEW on the same number line as blink-182 but the lack of a connection really rules out association by chronology, JEW have a lot more of a connection with bands like the get up kids and texas is the reason for example. they were more coming out of the midwestmo side of things while blink 182 was in the mainstream pop-punk/powerpop scene, two pretty different spectrums of pop-rock.

[AP_Punk]

"Splash, Turn and Twist", I like.

[TheOtherAndrew]

"Splash, Turn and Twist", I like.
I still haven't heard it. Blame my extreme laziness.

[AP_Punk]

:-0

[TheOtherAndrew]

:-0
don't hate! i just was too busy focusing on disc 2 of the expanded edition to go back and listen to disc 1!

[AP_Punk]

don't hate! i just was too busy focusing on disc 2 of the expanded edition to go back and listen to disc 1!

Me still gots to get that deluxe edition.

[theguy77]

JEW aren't influenced by those bands they were one of them. When Blink hit the big time with Enema of the State a lot of bands that were around in that vague genre got a lot more poppier. They all did. Saves the Day, The Get Up Kids, Alkaline Trio, Jimmy Eat World and many other. Just coincidence this happened to all those bands exactly in the years after Enema hit? Just a coincidence they all started touring with i.e supporting Blink at shows? You're losing this argument Ryan.

its not like the BANDS saying, oh lets all be like blink 182, its more like the mainstream and the music bsuiness saying "oh hey look at this teenage pop-rock and how much money it makes and how cool it makes people feel, lets put more bands like that out there." the ones who got poppier got the break but there's no evidence they got poppier because they wanted to be like blink 182, their mainstream attention is the only thing that can be attributed to what blink accomplished previously.

the only thing im losing regarding this argument is interest, its not that important to me whether or not bleed american is a classic, i just know a lot of people who find it to be an album that's more important than about 95% of other pop-rock albums in the last decade and i agree with those people. jimmy eat world are not just some random band that don't matter individually, when you're talking about jimmy eat world you're talking about them exclusively with no substitutions, i dont care if their music isn't innovative its still got a prominent and unique flavor to it. and in my experience they are THE mainstream pop-rock band for those who listen to punk/pop-punk/powerpop (which is a scene with its own flavors outside of regular pop-rock), just like weezer are that band for a lot of people who listen to indie and just like switchfoot wishes they were that band.

yeah im kinda done im gonna go play sim city now.

[Chiodo]

jimmy is awesome
saw them live a few days ago at bamboozle, first row

[Shatter590]

classic or not, Bleed American made me a JEW fan. And it made just about all my friends JEW fans. WHile its not their best album by far, its one of their more accessible ones.

[AP_Punk]

i love jews

[theguy77]

You have a strange and incorrect opnion about what Weezer was and is, probably because you haven't actually listened to Weezer and because they are way before your time.

and you, my friend, make too many assumptions, ive heard plenty weezer. im meaning to get some of their stuff they're pretty good.

[chipdip18]

Nah, their poppiest is Chase This Light.

Haha shows you how much i know about it, i mixed up their latest release with their single.

[AP_Punk]

I saw the deluxe edition at Best Buy and - holy crap, it was almost 30 bucks.

[AlternateToLife]

Don't have the deluxe edition yet. Really looking forward to it. It's a fantastic album.

[AlternateToLife]

-For some reason, there is a large group of people who insist that the demo version of "Sweetness" (from the deluxe version of Clarity) is better than the version that appeared on this album. I'm gonna have to absolutely disagree. The vocals on the album version are pretty much perfect, and the production is much, much better.

I think I might be one of those people. I don't know if I'd say it's better, but it's definitely worth having both versions imo.

[handlikesecret]

amazing album. my favorite track has to be Sweetness.

[SteveLikesMusic]

I love the deluxe edition :-)

[CellarGhosts]

I really want to pick this up sometime. looks cool. :-)

[handlikesecret]

what's the difference exactly?

[alanashoe]

I was just wondering if anyone knew how much the western tread pressing of the bleed american vinyl go for

[Circa1628]

I'm torn between which track is my favorite off of the album, "Sweetness" or "Hear You Me" They are too different to pick!

[xxemo_kittyxx]

Do we seriously need a thread for every Jimmy Eat World album?

[LetterBomb31]

Do we seriously need a thread for every Jimmy Eat World album?

Yes.

[wall e]

JEW deserves 2+ threads for every album