Bush will take this thing to the Moon!!

[deadwombat]

So, Bush wants to establish a permanent presence on the Moon. I actually think Bush has done something right for a change. Sure the technology isn't where it should be yet for a Moon colony, but at least he is taking initiative on the issue. I'm impressed.

[Justin_stacy]

i'm not really for or against this action.......personally i don't think this is the right time and i don't think the technology we have = the price its going to cost us, but even with that i do understand that there is a need for greater exploration into space.....

[yeat182]

but he won't actually be setting up this colony during his term, he is merely setting up a plan to make it happen in the future. the money spent will be minimal (relatively) to the actual mission. it will go to planning and development and improvement of technology. i'd love to see people on the moon again, and would like it even more to see people on mars. one question i've always had is why they don't build a colony on the moon, and launch space missions from there, rather than earth, since the gravity of the moon is much less than earth and would therefor use less fuel to get a spacecraft off the ground.

[xnotedgex]

but he won't actually be setting up this colony during his term, he is merely setting up a plan to make it happen in the future. the money spent will be minimal (relatively) to the actual mission. it will go to planning and development and improvement of technology. i'd love to see people on the moon again, and would like it even more to see people on mars. one question i've always had is why they don't build a colony on the moon, and launch space missions from there, rather than earth, since the gravity of the moon is much less than earth and would therefor use less fuel to get a spacecraft off the ground.

budget issues obviously...i don't see how any plan that will obviously take billions upon billions upon dollars to complete can be described as 'minimal'...good idea...it's going to happen eventually but not for at least 25-50 years

[deadwombat]

Stanford University's Douglas Osheroff, "I think we're still 30 years from going to Mars..."

Smart words, from a smart guy.

I'm just glad that someone recognized the importance of exploration in space.
I strongly think it should be an international effort though, split the cost that way and avoid a cold war-esque space race scenario.

[turtlefootrx]

it didnt take NASA very long in the 60's to actually get on the moon. the moon mission will take much less time as the mars one.

i actually think hes just announcing this to rack up more voters. (kinda like his new imigration plan) hes pretty much doing something fer every type of voter out there...

but it would be kinda cool to see a moon colony and a mars mission tho...

[UndefinedBoy]

it didnt take NASA very long in the 60's to actually get on the moon. the moon mission will take much less time as the mars one.

I read somewhere (either from NASA or CNN) that the moon mission won't happen until 2010. This means a long time before Mars. I just hope I live to see it. It's probably true he's doing this to rack up more voters, but its a good idea anyway.

[hXc_pwnage]

i actually think hes just announcing this to rack up more voters. (kinda like his new imigration plan) hes pretty much doing something fer every type of voter out there..

Um, many people hate the immigration plan. Even some of the biggest conservatives in congress hate it. So yah, don't count on that to pass or help him. But, I do believe (sadly) he will be re-elected. :crazy:

[Tbones]

Um, many people hate the immigration plan. Even some of the biggest conservatives in congress hate it. So yah, don't count on that to pass or help him. But, I do believe (sadly) he will be re-elected. :crazy:

Mmhmm...I'm not Bush's #1 fan, I'm not really for the guy, but I do think he'll get re-elected. As sad as it may sound. :upset:

As for the moon thing...well, I just heard about it (some of it) and I just really think that the money could be spent on other, more important things, here at home...on earth...ya, anyway.

[UndefinedBoy]

As for the moon thing...well, I just heard about it (some of it) and I just really think that the money could be spent on other, more important things, here at home...on earth...ya, anyway.

Yeah thats a good point. I guess it all depends on how important you feel it is to explore the universe beyond our own little blip on the map...if you can even call us that.

[deadwombat]

Hopefully the country will have a lot of its fiscal problems worked out in the next 20-30 years before the Mars trip, that is, if this doesn't become an international effort. The Moon colony happening by 2010 is wishfull thinking, there has to be a lot of training done for something of that magnitude.
As for the immigration plan, I don't have a stance on it, there's a lot of good and bad than can come from it. It is taking flak from both conservatives saying it is too powerful and worker's rights groups saying that it doesn't do enough. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[yeat182]

budget issues obviously...i don't see how any plan that will obviously take billions upon billions upon dollars to complete can be described as 'minimal'...good idea...it's going to happen eventually but not for at least 25-50 years


i meant the money bush will spend during his term to develop the plan, that will lead to the actual mission. a misson to mars is said to cost roughly a 350 billion, depending on what you are looking to do and how much you are willing to spend. the planning for the actual misson would cost a fraction of that.

[yeat182]

Stanford University's Douglas Osheroff, "I think we're still 30 years from going to Mars..."

Smart words, from a smart guy.

I'm just glad that someone recognized the importance of exploration in space.
I strongly think it should be an international effort though, split the cost that way and avoid a cold war-esque space race scenario.

i've heard equally smart guys say we could be there in 5-10 years if we were willing to spend the money.

and while i can see splitting the cost internationally, it would be nice to see the country unite around something positive like the exploration of space, much like they did in the 60's.

[yeat182]

Mmhmm...I'm not Bush's #1 fan, I'm not really for the guy, but I do think he'll get re-elected. As sad as it may sound. :upset:

As for the moon thing...well, I just heard about it (some of it) and I just really think that the money could be spent on other, more important things, here at home...on earth...ya, anyway.


people could have just stoped exploring america at the appilachian mountains too and saved time, money, lives, but we are not only a country of explorers, we are a race of explorers. since the beginning of civilization we have expanded both our knowledge and our boundries, seeking to know that which is unknown. i have no problem with them spending money on it, because frankly, if we don't do it, who will? we have the money, and the capability to continue exploring not only this planet, but bodies outside this world.

[yeat182]

Hopefully the country will have a lot of its fiscal problems worked out in the next 20-30 years before the Mars trip, that is, if this doesn't become an international effort. The Moon colony happening by 2010 is wishfull thinking, there has to be a lot of training done for something of that magnitude.
As for the immigration plan, I don't have a stance on it, there's a lot of good and bad than can come from it. It is taking flak from both conservatives saying it is too powerful and worker's rights groups saying that it doesn't do enough. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.


the colony wouldn't be ready by 2010, the plan would be to send men back to the moon by 2010, similar to the apollo missions.

[scitsofreaky]

Hopefully the country will have a lot of its fiscal problems worked out in the next 20-30 years before the Mars trip
Holy crap, that is the funniest thing I have ever heard you say, and I have known you a long ass time. In 20-30 years we will probably have more problems. We haven't even begun to solve any of our problems. And Bush sure helped this out by giving a "huge" :smartass: tax cut right before going to war. I think he was counting on the oil paying off more than it has.
Also, they won't be able to make a colony until the have a few more trips to the moon to learn more. And, we won't be able to go to Mars until we can make a temporary colony-like setup because the trips would be so long. Also, a hard obstacle to get around is that there are only small windows to make it to Mars in a reasonable amount of time.

[deadwombat]

Scitso, If you've known me so long you would know that whenever I start sentance with "hopefully..." it generally leads to a sarcastic or downtrodden statement. I know full well that the fiscal problems won't be solved in 20-30 years, but there is hope isn't there?

i've heard equally smart guys say we could be there in 5-10 years if we were willing to spend the money
Spend the money is pretty key to that statement isn't it? The republicans will remain in power for the next 5-10 years at least, money spending isn't really their big thing. I know that at least in my state you can't even get higher school funding because we are a Republican stronghold!


the colony wouldn't be ready by 2010, the plan would be to send men back to the moon by 2010, similar to the apollo missions.
From my understanding the plan was Moon colony soon after a few trips by astronauts begin construction by 2010, and from there on to Mars in the decade after completion. Sorry about that.



Also, they won't be able to make a colony until the have a few more trips to the moon to learn more
Its not like the colony will be built over a weekend. Of course it will take time, god it takes long enough to build a building here on earth. (Construction workers kick ass though, tough freaking job)


Also, a hard obstacle to get around is that there are only small windows to make it to Mars in a reasonable amount of time.
I don't see that as being as huge an obstacle as, say, an asteroid. Humans have been looking at Mars for so long that we know when the best time to launch a shuttle would be. Granted the window is small, but at least we know when it is.

[scitsofreaky]

I don't see that as being as huge an obstacle as, say, an asteroid. Humans have been looking at Mars for so long that we know when the best time to launch a shuttle would be. Granted the window is small, but at least we know when it is.
I know we know about the window. The problem is that it is so short that whoever is on Mars will probably have to wait a few years until the window comes back around to make it back to earth. So, now we have to figure out how to have men survive for years on a planet alone for atleast 2 years.

[hXc_pwnage]

I believe that we should spend the money on the earth. Research on how to stop/create less polution. Research the ocean. Research on a cure for cancer and AIDS. There is so much more things we can do with that money that just explore space. I truly don't care that much about space. Knowing Bush, he'll probably end up using it somehow to launch nukes off of it or something :rolleyes: :skull: He's probably going to end up just killing us all so he can have more oil for himself. Then he can blame it on the New Zealanders!

[scitsofreaky]

I agree, we should find out more about our own planet before we worry about others. I mean, we don't know shit about most of the planet (the oceans) and god knows what the rest of our planet has to offer.

[yeat182]

I know we know about the window. The problem is that it is so short that whoever is on Mars will probably have to wait a few years until the window comes back around to make it back to earth. So, now we have to figure out how to have men survive for years on a planet alone for atleast 2 years.


mars will not be close enough for another mission for 2 years, and the trip itself takes something like a year (one-way), so that is at least 2 years spent in transit, and then how ever long they would have to spend on mars until the earth was close enough to send them home...could be a 4 year trip.

[yeat182]

I believe that we should spend the money on the earth. Research on how to stop/create less polution. Research the ocean. Research on a cure for cancer and AIDS. There is so much more things we can do with that money that just explore space. I truly don't care that much about space. Knowing Bush, he'll probably end up using it somehow to launch nukes off of it or something :rolleyes: :skull: He's probably going to end up just killing us all so he can have more oil for himself. Then he can blame it on the New Zealanders!


in regards to creating less pollution: the main reason why there is so much pollution is because:

A. there are too many people living on the planet
B. fossil fuels are pollutants yet nessesary to provide energy

space exploration would potentially solve both these problems. new technology designed to fuel and power space vehicles would translate into new energy systems to be used here on earth (i.e. fuel cells). and colonization of the moon and mars (long term) would reduce the number of people on earth and help ease the pollution caused by overcrowding. not to mention the space program would also have to develop technology and methods to deal with the pollution in a moon colony for example, which could most likely be transalted to use on earth as well.

also, much of the research done on Earth itself is made possible by the space program, much of the study of the oceans is done with satalites. Not to mention the fact that medical research is one of the fundamental reasons we built the international space station and why biologists and chemists travel to space as astronaughts. the research done in space or on the moon could be invaluable for finding cures for cancer or aids.

and what possible reason would bush have to kill everyone? if everyone was dead why would he need oil? why would he need to go to the moon to accomplish this? because fat mike said so?

[turtlefootrx]

i dont think the first people on mars would plan on chillin fer a year or so. its probably gonna start out just like the moon landing. they get a couple guys on there...fuck around fer like 4 hours...and head home. think about the kinda supplies theyd already need just to get there and back...let alone what theyd need to stick around there for 2 years till mars is close enough to the earth again...

[yeat182]

i dont think the first people on mars would plan on chillin fer a year or so. its probably gonna start out just like the moon landing. they get a couple guys on there...fuck around fer like 4 hours...and head home. think about the kinda supplies theyd already need just to get there and back...let alone what theyd need to stick around there for 2 years till mars is close enough to the earth again...


you wouldn't send someone on a 2 year mission so that they could fuck around for 4 hours...it would be a tremendous waste of money not to mention idiotic. it would have absolutely no scientific merit, and you could send a robot there if that was the case. the plan in place is to send craft to mars ahead of the astronauts, a craft would land that carries a machine that converts CO2 into rocket fuel, stockpyling it for the return trip. another craft would land that would be their habitat and would beging creating breathable air and water and so forth. other craft would land with varioius supplies, vehicles, equiptiment ect. so that when the astronauts landed everything they need would already be there.

[RefusedsXe]

Its ridicolous we are going to the moon again, its a waste of money at this point the only reason is so we can look superior, when another country says they are going then we go oh yea well we are going again. Stupid.

[hXc_pwnage]

in regards to creating less pollution: the main reason why there is so much pollution is because:

A. there are too many people living on the planet
B. fossil fuels are pollutants yet nessesary to provide energy

space exploration would potentially solve both these problems. new technology designed to fuel and power space vehicles would translate into new energy systems to be used here on earth (i.e. fuel cells). and colonization of the moon and mars (long term) would reduce the number of people on earth and help ease the pollution caused by overcrowding. not to mention the space program would also have to develop technology and methods to deal with the pollution in a moon colony for example, which could most likely be transalted to use on earth as well.

also, much of the research done on Earth itself is made possible by the space program, much of the study of the oceans is done with satalites. Not to mention the fact that medical research is one of the fundamental reasons we built the international space station and why biologists and chemists travel to space as astronaughts. the research done in space or on the moon could be invaluable for finding cures for cancer or aids.

and what possible reason would bush have to kill everyone? if everyone was dead why would he need oil? why would he need to go to the moon to accomplish this? because fat mike said so?

Pollution was just an example. Maybe there are other ways that we haven't figured out because we would rather explore other planets. Why couldn't we test out fuel cells on earth? What about solar power? There are also many other things that could supply us with energy. Why not try that instead of wasting all of this money on going to space and, as refusedsxe said, to look superior. This will probably become another race... So what, we use satalites to study the ocean, does that mean we have to try and 'colonize' the moon? Why can't you find cures on earth? Create some artificial island or something...the international island. And Bush killing everyone is some smart ass comment I came up with myself. Why is it that every time someone says something bad about Bush you always come back saying 'Is it because Fat Mike told you so?' I mean really...

[yeat182]

if we are so worried about wasting money, we should get rid of welfare.

[open mind]

if we are so worried about wasting money, we should get rid of welfare.
i guess keeping millions of people alive is a waste of money then.
as for going to the moon what the hell just so long as it's name isn't changed to advertise some corporation when we get the colony up and running.
mars seems far off maybe when\if we get the moon up and running it'll be more realistic.

[hXc_pwnage]

i guess keeping millions of people alive is a waste of money then.

I know, really yeat. So you would care more about some fucked up moon project than your own people? What if one day, you need that welfare...but look! All that money was used on the moon... Are you going to be happy? No. Welfare is already hard enough to live off of, but hey, who cares about the people? It isn't about the people anymore...

[yeat182]

i think going to the moon and to mars is worth the money, i don't think that our current welfare system is. and frankly, going to the moon isn't going to bankrupt the US.

[open mind]

i think going to the moon and to mars is worth the money, i don't think that our current welfare system is. and frankly, going to the moon isn't going to bankrupt the US.
yeah it's worth the money but if it's taken step by step with steady advances it will be cheaper than saying get us to mars give us the bill when your done.
how many people can you claim to know well who are on welfare?i'd bet it's not to many so cutting it wouldn't have much of an impact on your life,if i'm correct in that assumption you must see welfare recipients as a bunch of numbers instead of real people.alot of people are trying to get back on their feet, welfare helps them. do you have a better system in mind,or are you saying screw anyone without money?

[yeat182]

yeah it's worth the money but if it's taken step by step with steady advances it will be cheaper than saying get us to mars give us the bill when your done.
how many people can you claim to know well who are on welfare?i'd bet it's not to many so cutting it wouldn't have much of an impact on your life,if i'm correct in that assumption you must see welfare recipients as a bunch of numbers instead of real people.alot of people are trying to get back on their feet, welfare helps them. do you have a better system in mind,or are you saying screw anyone without money?


you're right, step by step is a good way to go, and i think bush is developing a plan now, with the steps laid out for the future.

and with regards to the welfare, it does affect me because it raises taxes, and takes money away from things like education and so on. Also, i didn't say we should destroy welfare, only that the current system is wasting money, and there needs to be reforms to fix the problems that exist in it.

[open mind]

if we are so worried about wasting money, we should get rid of welfare.
okay then.

[Tbones]

okay then.

LMAO :laugh:

That was funny...

Anyway, I'm just saying that we should do what we need to do here, then go out and explore space. Cause I do believe that there is other life out there...but I'm in no rush to find em. lol

[VirginiaIsForMe]

with all the bush soundbytes on this topic, i'm still waiting for the man to talk about "exploring uranus".

that's only, what, four more planets from mars, why stop at mars? get us to uranus!

[Tbones]

with all the bush soundbytes on this topic, i'm still waiting for the man to talk about "exploring uranus".

that's only, what, four more planets from mars, why stop at mars? get us to uranus!

It was inevitable wasn't it? But I agree! Let's go to uranus!!!!